I purchased a non-compliant 220v Hakko 888, got refund & didnt have to return it

[nate_syd]

Long time watcher first time poster...

So did the reading & went with a Hakko FX888d soldering iron... went to the usual online site (ebay) & searched for an Australian located item... paid $176 for it.
Then found out about the fakes everywhere... eepers...

Got it, looked good, felt good, checked under the skirt & it was a genuine Hakko... HOWEVER... it was clearly imported from Malaysia (which i found out after i paid, as i could see where the money went), and they used a freight forwarder in Botany/Alexandria to make it appear like it was in NSW.

So i wasnt happy - paid good money & all...
So asked for a refund, but they told me i had to send it back - so i'd be stuffing around etc.

Under Aus Post terms of service (9.2 something from memory), you cannot use their service is the item to be posted has a law against it.  So i argued that i cant use post as its an item thats illegal to be sold & i shouldnt have it.
Ebay replied with "but they sent it post"... *sigh*

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

Just received my refund!
So i have a working, legitimate Hakko - that can not be used in this country... effectively for Free!

I wonder what the 240v vs 220v difference would actually make?!?

[wraper]

Thanks for being scammer and letting everyone know about it  .

[nate_syd]

and how am i a scammer?

I was sold something that was illegal to be sold in Aus, it was fraudulently advertised, and i couldnt return it.
Explain who/how i scammed?

[wraper]

and how am i a scammer?

I was sold something that was illegal to be sold in Aus, it was fraudulently advertised, and i couldnt return it.
Explain who/how i scammed?

How it suddenly becomes illegal when using freight forwarder?

Explain who/how i scammed?

You scammed seller out of soldering station. Thanks for being a dick.

[nate_syd]

no - it is illegal for me to return it.

Terms of service by post state that you cannot send an item if there is a law against it.
Which in this case there is a law against it (non-compliant).

So I was not able to send illegal goods back by post, if i were to - then i would be in the wrong.


Whats with the language & hostility?
The seller was illegally selling an item... it was not possible for me to return it.

Please re-read posts before you start with the name calling & profanity.

[wraper]

no - it is illegal for me to return it.

Terms of service by post state that you cannot send an item if there is a law against it.
Which in this case there is a law against it (non-compliant).

So I was not able to send illegal goods back by post, if i were to - then i would be in the wrong.

Why do you think those are illegal goods? Also it's not necessarily freight forwarder. It may be dropshipping.

[wraper]

it was not possible for me to return it.

It was completely possible to do it. Yet you scammed seller out of soldering station.

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

You misrepresented item as counterfeit goods. Proves yet again that you are a scammer.

[nate_syd]

I dont *think* they are illegal, i know them to be.

Looks like you're in a different country - but you should be aware.
Electrical goods sold in a country may need to comply with standards - safety etc.  This is one of those items.

So if the item is NOT marked as approved, it is illegal to be sold.
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/buying-products-and-services/product-and-service-safety/electrical-safety/safety-labels-for-electrical-goods

I never said they were counterfeit, the form i was sent said counterfeit in the title - i have always stated non-compliant.  Re-read the title of the post.


Again you're very aggressive & making statements, yet not reading anything.
Please make sure you read teh posts before commenting.

[wraper]

So if the item is NOT marked as approved, it is illegal to be sold.
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/buying-products-and-services/product-and-service-safety/electrical-safety/safety-labels-for-electrical-goods

For what I can certainly tell, it is completely safe. Secondly, even if it does not bear necessary safety mark, it does not prevent you from returning it in any way, even from legal standpoint. It is NOT counterfeit goods which you cannot legally ship back across the border.

I never said they were counterfeit, the form i was sent said counterfeit in the title - i have always stated non-compliant.  Re-read the title of the post.

You misrepresented it when:

i had to sign 2 statutory declarations

Declaring it as counterfeit goods, which it is not at all.
So you are 100% scammer.

[Muttley Snickers]

Apart from any compliance concerns the seller has been misleading in declaring their location as NSW, the OP should have been more diligent by examining the sellers feedback page prior to purchase where they do state they are based in Malaysia. If the product was damaged or faulty the buyer may be required to return the item overseas as no local warranty would apply.

I fell for the same trap once where the seller indicated that they were based in Australia when in fact they were in China. The order was incomplete and to obtain a full refund I was required to ship the items back to China by registered mail. This transaction confirmed for me that Paypal are incompetent morons and cannot be trusted, and neither can the "Australia Only" checkbox.

[rsjsouza]

I think this is a bit of a grey area, given that many manufacturers have hubs in the east Asia and deal on eBay. Keysight, for example, has their webstore, although they always state the COO.

In case of Hakko, even if the unit was not shipped from Australia, you said it looks original. In this case, is there a strong reason to make the non-compliance claim? Is the Hakko station rated for 220V or 240V? Does it have the Australian plug? Any other blatant details that you saw thay may detract from its quality?
(Maybe you stated this in your posts, but I missed)

[wraper]

This is the listing, just in case. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-Hakko-FX-888D-Home-Electrical-Digital-LCD-Repair-Soldering-Station-Iron/142205106472
EDIT: BTW in this listing seller even offers free return shipping.

[digsys]

Sorry, I side with Wraper on this. If you expect everything on the net to be true, and didn't do at least SOME due diligence, then seriously, get off the net :-)
If the item worked as stated, and was reasonably well made, you got a bargain -which is what you asked for. AND IF, it failed after a while, and was too expensive
to repair, or return for warranty, YOU took the risk. Did the seller explicitly say "Australian warranty" ?
I often buy from overseas - taobao, alibaba etc and spend a heck of a lot of time checking out sellers / feedback etc. I often don't proceed with a purchase.
FYI, most the electrical stuff coming into Aus isn't approved, even some from larger Aus stores. Due diligence. Like I said, stay off the net, people lie there :-)

EDIT: The listing showed up the same time I posted - so I modify my comments a bit. The above does apply in many cases, but this is one definitely a fraud. Sorry

[nate_syd]

In this case, is there a strong reason to make the non-compliance claim?
Is the Hakko station rated for 220V or 240V?
Does it have the Australian plug?
(Maybe you stated this in your posts, but I missed)

yes - the AU ones are stamped & have an approval number, as per the Fair Trading post above.
Also, whats interesting, even if the *exact* item already has approval, you CANNOT import it yourself or use that approval number!

its 220v NOT 240v

It has an AU plug, but looks like they're doing that themselves at a factory, as the cord is DIFFERENT to the AU approved ones.  And i wouldnt use a plug to indicate that its ok of course

[nate_syd]

Sorry, I side with Wraper on this. If you expect everything on the net to be true, and didn't do at least SOME due diligence, then seriously, get off the net :-)
If the item worked as stated, and was reasonably well made, you got a bargain -which is what you asked for. AND IF, it failed after a while, and was too expensive
to repair, or return for warranty, YOU took the risk. Did the seller explicitly say "Australian warranty" ?
I often buy from overseas - taobao, alibaba etc and spend a heck of a lot of time checking out sellers / feedback etc. I often don't proceed with a purchase.
FYI, most the electrical stuff coming into Aus isn't approved, even some from larger Aus stores. Due diligence. Like I said, stay off the net, people lie there :-)

True, but there is consumer law & protection for consumers - and this is an example of it working & how you can not get completely ripped off as per Muttleys post above.
If you choose to take it on teh chin or be out of pocket, that's fine - but there are laws to protect you & you should be aware & exercise them.

Say you sent it back & it was dodgy & killed someone... how well would you sleep?

[Psi]

Basically you manipulated the situation to get something for free.
Even if it was counterfeit it still cost someone money/time to make.
So someone has lost money.

I'm not saying that the people who make counterfeit goods are innocent.
I'm just saying that cheating them out of money doesn't somehow become ethically acceptable simply because the goods they made were counterfeit.

[wraper]

Say you sent it back & it was dodgy & killed someone... how well would you sleep?

The thing it, nor it was dodgy, nor it would kill someone. You admitted yourself, it's a genuine item. And nothing legally prevented you from returning it back, you even had free return shipping. BTW in Australia officially mains voltage is 230V. 240V is a legacy thing that still remains in practice in most places and is within allowed tolerance of 230V.

Australian Standard AS 60038 states the nominal mains voltage as 230 V +10%, – 6%, giving a range of 216.2 to 253 V.

[nate_syd]

Basically you manipulated the situation to get something for free.
Even if it was counterfeit it still cost someone money/time to make.
So someone has lost money.

I'm not saying that the people who make counterfeit goods are innocent.
I'm just saying that cheating them out of money doesn't somehow become ethically acceptable simply because the goods they made were counterfeit.

I went & purchased an AU approved iron from the official distributor & will destroy the old iron - its a waste, but i did not get anything for free at all.

Cheating them?
I didnt cheat anyone, i followed the laws & rules & enforced the consumer protection laws that are there to protect us.

I'd give it to a charity if i could - but its a no no. 

I get the comments above... but i'm amazed how am i at fault for not using illegal products or breaking the rules of Aus Post by sending it back?!?!?
I had no other options than to keep it, otherwise i'd be breaking rules/laws!??!?!

[wraper]

Cheating them?
I didnt cheat anyone, i followed the laws & rules & enforced the consumer protection laws that are there to protect us.

Yet again. You cheated by declaring it as counterfeit item which it is not. There was nothing that legally prevented you from returning it.

breaking the rules of Aus Post by sending it back?!?!?

There are no Aus post rules that prevent you from returning it. It's not a counterfeit.

[nate_syd]

I'm not going to reply to Captain McNarky Pants...

Interesting point about voltages... 220v vs 240v...

So it was built for 220v.. what does that exactly mean?
Maybe it was designed for 220v +- 10%... so maximum of 242v

I've got solar power & i'm close to a substation, so I know for a fact my house sits above 242v at times.  What if it was at the Aus standard max of 253v?

So then what happens? does it blow up? does it slowly overheat?
What happens when i use it on a 45deg day at 100% humidity in full sun in Alice Springs?

There could be many other things that appliances require to be sold here, apart from mains voltages - its NOT on the consumer to have to speak to every manufacturer to see what happens, nor would they ever get "its OK" from the manufacturer.

[Greg Robinson]

I purchased a non-compliant 220v Hakko 888, got a refund & kept it!

I think that about sums it up. Sure gives the impression that you're gloating about your "score", rather than upset about about some imagined safety hazard. Seems you made every effort to avoid returning it (which would have been a reasonable thing to do), and your justification for doing so is flimsy at best, bordering on outright fraud (making a stat dec with false information -which you have admitted to- is a crime).

[nate_syd]

I purchased a non-compliant 220v Hakko 888, got a refund & kept it!

Seems you made every effort to avoid returning it (which would have been a reasonable thing to do), and your justification for doing so is flimsy at best, bordering on outright fraud (making a stat dec with false information -which you have admitted to- is a crime).

No i have not admitted to making a false stat dec, nor have i made a false stat dec.  How can you make that statement without ever seeing the stat dec?
Yourself & the other guy are simply not reading the posts.

[Greg Robinson]

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

Just received my refund!
So i have a working, legitimate Hakko - that can not be used in this country... effectively for Free!

One sentence you state you made a stat dec stating that the goods were counterfeit. Couple of sentences later you state the opposite. I read the posts. You committed fraud, by your own admission.

[nate_syd]

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

Just received my refund!
So i have a working, legitimate Hakko - that can not be used in this country... effectively for Free!

One sentence you state you made a stat dec stating that the goods were counterfeit. Couple of sentences later you state the opposite. I read the posts. You committed fraud, by your own admission.

That's what the form is called (their wording on it), they typically use it for counterfeits.

The form is for anything with a "zero resale value" - which this item has, as it is illegal to be sold.

[Muttley Snickers]

I'm not really sure why anybody would buy one off Ebay anyway when they could purchase one locally from a respected distributor. The FX-888D is currently available from Mektronics for $178 with a free roll of solder chucked in and free postage as well. I'm not taking sides with anyone either, just saying do your research first.

https://www.mektronics.com.au