I purchased a non-compliant 220v Hakko 888, got refund & didnt have to return it

[nate_syd]

Long time watcher first time poster...

So did the reading & went with a Hakko FX888d soldering iron... went to the usual online site (ebay) & searched for an Australian located item... paid $176 for it.
Then found out about the fakes everywhere... eepers...

Got it, looked good, felt good, checked under the skirt & it was a genuine Hakko... HOWEVER... it was clearly imported from Malaysia (which i found out after i paid, as i could see where the money went), and they used a freight forwarder in Botany/Alexandria to make it appear like it was in NSW.

So i wasnt happy - paid good money & all...
So asked for a refund, but they told me i had to send it back - so i'd be stuffing around etc.

Under Aus Post terms of service (9.2 something from memory), you cannot use their service is the item to be posted has a law against it.  So i argued that i cant use post as its an item thats illegal to be sold & i shouldnt have it.
Ebay replied with "but they sent it post"... *sigh*

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

Just received my refund!
So i have a working, legitimate Hakko - that can not be used in this country... effectively for Free!

I wonder what the 240v vs 220v difference would actually make?!?

[wraper]

Thanks for being scammer and letting everyone know about it  .

[nate_syd]

and how am i a scammer?

I was sold something that was illegal to be sold in Aus, it was fraudulently advertised, and i couldnt return it.
Explain who/how i scammed?

[wraper]

and how am i a scammer?

I was sold something that was illegal to be sold in Aus, it was fraudulently advertised, and i couldnt return it.
Explain who/how i scammed?

How it suddenly becomes illegal when using freight forwarder?

Explain who/how i scammed?

You scammed seller out of soldering station. Thanks for being a dick.

[nate_syd]

no - it is illegal for me to return it.

Terms of service by post state that you cannot send an item if there is a law against it.
Which in this case there is a law against it (non-compliant).

So I was not able to send illegal goods back by post, if i were to - then i would be in the wrong.


Whats with the language & hostility?
The seller was illegally selling an item... it was not possible for me to return it.

Please re-read posts before you start with the name calling & profanity.

[wraper]

no - it is illegal for me to return it.

Terms of service by post state that you cannot send an item if there is a law against it.
Which in this case there is a law against it (non-compliant).

So I was not able to send illegal goods back by post, if i were to - then i would be in the wrong.

Why do you think those are illegal goods? Also it's not necessarily freight forwarder. It may be dropshipping.

[wraper]

it was not possible for me to return it.

It was completely possible to do it. Yet you scammed seller out of soldering station.

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

You misrepresented item as counterfeit goods. Proves yet again that you are a scammer.

[nate_syd]

I dont *think* they are illegal, i know them to be.

Looks like you're in a different country - but you should be aware.
Electrical goods sold in a country may need to comply with standards - safety etc.  This is one of those items.

So if the item is NOT marked as approved, it is illegal to be sold.
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/buying-products-and-services/product-and-service-safety/electrical-safety/safety-labels-for-electrical-goods

I never said they were counterfeit, the form i was sent said counterfeit in the title - i have always stated non-compliant.  Re-read the title of the post.


Again you're very aggressive & making statements, yet not reading anything.
Please make sure you read teh posts before commenting.

[wraper]

So if the item is NOT marked as approved, it is illegal to be sold.
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/buying-products-and-services/product-and-service-safety/electrical-safety/safety-labels-for-electrical-goods

For what I can certainly tell, it is completely safe. Secondly, even if it does not bear necessary safety mark, it does not prevent you from returning it in any way, even from legal standpoint. It is NOT counterfeit goods which you cannot legally ship back across the border.

I never said they were counterfeit, the form i was sent said counterfeit in the title - i have always stated non-compliant.  Re-read the title of the post.

You misrepresented it when:

i had to sign 2 statutory declarations

Declaring it as counterfeit goods, which it is not at all.
So you are 100% scammer.

[Muttley Snickers]

Apart from any compliance concerns the seller has been misleading in declaring their location as NSW, the OP should have been more diligent by examining the sellers feedback page prior to purchase where they do state they are based in Malaysia. If the product was damaged or faulty the buyer may be required to return the item overseas as no local warranty would apply.

I fell for the same trap once where the seller indicated that they were based in Australia when in fact they were in China. The order was incomplete and to obtain a full refund I was required to ship the items back to China by registered mail. This transaction confirmed for me that Paypal are incompetent morons and cannot be trusted, and neither can the "Australia Only" checkbox.

[rsjsouza]

I think this is a bit of a grey area, given that many manufacturers have hubs in the east Asia and deal on eBay. Keysight, for example, has their webstore, although they always state the COO.

In case of Hakko, even if the unit was not shipped from Australia, you said it looks original. In this case, is there a strong reason to make the non-compliance claim? Is the Hakko station rated for 220V or 240V? Does it have the Australian plug? Any other blatant details that you saw thay may detract from its quality?
(Maybe you stated this in your posts, but I missed)

[wraper]

This is the listing, just in case. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-Hakko-FX-888D-Home-Electrical-Digital-LCD-Repair-Soldering-Station-Iron/142205106472
EDIT: BTW in this listing seller even offers free return shipping.

[digsys]

Sorry, I side with Wraper on this. If you expect everything on the net to be true, and didn't do at least SOME due diligence, then seriously, get off the net :-)
If the item worked as stated, and was reasonably well made, you got a bargain -which is what you asked for. AND IF, it failed after a while, and was too expensive
to repair, or return for warranty, YOU took the risk. Did the seller explicitly say "Australian warranty" ?
I often buy from overseas - taobao, alibaba etc and spend a heck of a lot of time checking out sellers / feedback etc. I often don't proceed with a purchase.
FYI, most the electrical stuff coming into Aus isn't approved, even some from larger Aus stores. Due diligence. Like I said, stay off the net, people lie there :-)

EDIT: The listing showed up the same time I posted - so I modify my comments a bit. The above does apply in many cases, but this is one definitely a fraud. Sorry

[nate_syd]

In this case, is there a strong reason to make the non-compliance claim?
Is the Hakko station rated for 220V or 240V?
Does it have the Australian plug?
(Maybe you stated this in your posts, but I missed)

yes - the AU ones are stamped & have an approval number, as per the Fair Trading post above.
Also, whats interesting, even if the *exact* item already has approval, you CANNOT import it yourself or use that approval number!

its 220v NOT 240v

It has an AU plug, but looks like they're doing that themselves at a factory, as the cord is DIFFERENT to the AU approved ones.  And i wouldnt use a plug to indicate that its ok of course

[nate_syd]

Sorry, I side with Wraper on this. If you expect everything on the net to be true, and didn't do at least SOME due diligence, then seriously, get off the net :-)
If the item worked as stated, and was reasonably well made, you got a bargain -which is what you asked for. AND IF, it failed after a while, and was too expensive
to repair, or return for warranty, YOU took the risk. Did the seller explicitly say "Australian warranty" ?
I often buy from overseas - taobao, alibaba etc and spend a heck of a lot of time checking out sellers / feedback etc. I often don't proceed with a purchase.
FYI, most the electrical stuff coming into Aus isn't approved, even some from larger Aus stores. Due diligence. Like I said, stay off the net, people lie there :-)

True, but there is consumer law & protection for consumers - and this is an example of it working & how you can not get completely ripped off as per Muttleys post above.
If you choose to take it on teh chin or be out of pocket, that's fine - but there are laws to protect you & you should be aware & exercise them.

Say you sent it back & it was dodgy & killed someone... how well would you sleep?

[Psi]

Basically you manipulated the situation to get something for free.
Even if it was counterfeit it still cost someone money/time to make.
So someone has lost money.

I'm not saying that the people who make counterfeit goods are innocent.
I'm just saying that cheating them out of money doesn't somehow become ethically acceptable simply because the goods they made were counterfeit.

[wraper]

Say you sent it back & it was dodgy & killed someone... how well would you sleep?

The thing it, nor it was dodgy, nor it would kill someone. You admitted yourself, it's a genuine item. And nothing legally prevented you from returning it back, you even had free return shipping. BTW in Australia officially mains voltage is 230V. 240V is a legacy thing that still remains in practice in most places and is within allowed tolerance of 230V.

Australian Standard AS 60038 states the nominal mains voltage as 230 V +10%, – 6%, giving a range of 216.2 to 253 V.

[nate_syd]

Basically you manipulated the situation to get something for free.
Even if it was counterfeit it still cost someone money/time to make.
So someone has lost money.

I'm not saying that the people who make counterfeit goods are innocent.
I'm just saying that cheating them out of money doesn't somehow become ethically acceptable simply because the goods they made were counterfeit.

I went & purchased an AU approved iron from the official distributor & will destroy the old iron - its a waste, but i did not get anything for free at all.

Cheating them?
I didnt cheat anyone, i followed the laws & rules & enforced the consumer protection laws that are there to protect us.

I'd give it to a charity if i could - but its a no no. 

I get the comments above... but i'm amazed how am i at fault for not using illegal products or breaking the rules of Aus Post by sending it back?!?!?
I had no other options than to keep it, otherwise i'd be breaking rules/laws!??!?!

[wraper]

Cheating them?
I didnt cheat anyone, i followed the laws & rules & enforced the consumer protection laws that are there to protect us.

Yet again. You cheated by declaring it as counterfeit item which it is not. There was nothing that legally prevented you from returning it.

breaking the rules of Aus Post by sending it back?!?!?

There are no Aus post rules that prevent you from returning it. It's not a counterfeit.

[nate_syd]

I'm not going to reply to Captain McNarky Pants...

Interesting point about voltages... 220v vs 240v...

So it was built for 220v.. what does that exactly mean?
Maybe it was designed for 220v +- 10%... so maximum of 242v

I've got solar power & i'm close to a substation, so I know for a fact my house sits above 242v at times.  What if it was at the Aus standard max of 253v?

So then what happens? does it blow up? does it slowly overheat?
What happens when i use it on a 45deg day at 100% humidity in full sun in Alice Springs?

There could be many other things that appliances require to be sold here, apart from mains voltages - its NOT on the consumer to have to speak to every manufacturer to see what happens, nor would they ever get "its OK" from the manufacturer.

[Greg Robinson]

I purchased a non-compliant 220v Hakko 888, got a refund & kept it!

I think that about sums it up. Sure gives the impression that you're gloating about your "score", rather than upset about about some imagined safety hazard. Seems you made every effort to avoid returning it (which would have been a reasonable thing to do), and your justification for doing so is flimsy at best, bordering on outright fraud (making a stat dec with false information -which you have admitted to- is a crime).

[nate_syd]

I purchased a non-compliant 220v Hakko 888, got a refund & kept it!

Seems you made every effort to avoid returning it (which would have been a reasonable thing to do), and your justification for doing so is flimsy at best, bordering on outright fraud (making a stat dec with false information -which you have admitted to- is a crime).

No i have not admitted to making a false stat dec, nor have i made a false stat dec.  How can you make that statement without ever seeing the stat dec?
Yourself & the other guy are simply not reading the posts.

[Greg Robinson]

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

Just received my refund!
So i have a working, legitimate Hakko - that can not be used in this country... effectively for Free!

One sentence you state you made a stat dec stating that the goods were counterfeit. Couple of sentences later you state the opposite. I read the posts. You committed fraud, by your own admission.

[nate_syd]

Eventually after some escalations i had to sign 2 statutory declarations (they stuffed up & gave me the wrong one first), the correct one was "counterfeit goods" - stating that i wont re-sell the item.

Just received my refund!
So i have a working, legitimate Hakko - that can not be used in this country... effectively for Free!

One sentence you state you made a stat dec stating that the goods were counterfeit. Couple of sentences later you state the opposite. I read the posts. You committed fraud, by your own admission.

That's what the form is called (their wording on it), they typically use it for counterfeits.

The form is for anything with a "zero resale value" - which this item has, as it is illegal to be sold.

[Muttley Snickers]

I'm not really sure why anybody would buy one off Ebay anyway when they could purchase one locally from a respected distributor. The FX-888D is currently available from Mektronics for $178 with a free roll of solder chucked in and free postage as well. I'm not taking sides with anyone either, just saying do your research first.

https://www.mektronics.com.au

[Electro Detective]

This whole deal has come about from two parties taking advantage of 'systems' in place for fair consumer trading, and not screw with the country's import regulations.

This time around the buyer got the upper hand (RARE!!!  ) not the seller playing 'supply location' BS games, as they do.

If you're perched on the moral high ground it may be a bit NQR what nate_syd did,
but hey, these shifty sellers sliding their knockoffs via legal-ish back doors into Australia aren't exactly folks that gas how they fill their pockets.

FWIW: If that 220v iron works and all decent nick inside WITH appropriate fusing,
it's welcome to litter my bench or bump around in my tool bag   


@ nate_syd: seriously mate, how much TIME and broken balls did you go through to get this sorted?
It's not worth the hassle is it? that's why I just don't bother with buying stuff from suss overseas turkeys pretending they are here in OZ. 

We already have way too much here as it is, KISS is good too,
...rocknroll band with same name isn't too shabby either 



Welcome to the forum btw    great kickstarter to a quiet week    
 

[sleemanj]

I'm not really sure why anybody would buy one off Ebay

So that they can jump up and down to get a refund on a technicality with the full intention to still keep and use the device for free anyway without a care in the world?

[digsys]

I did modify my initial response, as I hadn't seen the actual listing, but I think you've generated all this "angry" response, due to the wording you initially used.
And, had you included the link, it would have helped. Even so, you did get carried away with some of your comments :-) As I said, the Internet lies !
As for the 220V-240V comments. AUS supplies 240V PERIOD. +/- 10% PLUS add the boost you see with peoples solar panels, and readings get to 250V+
They are NOT going to rewire our Hydro / base load power generators for a damn long time !! PLUS they'd have to do them all at once, or close to.
We have signed up as a 220V country to comply with world standards, and have fudged the +/- figures ie 220V +10%,-5% and 240V +5%, -10%
A 220V rated device, unless it is WELL designed (ie over spec) will likely eventually fail. There are 100s cases a week still occurring. All facts.

[nate_syd]

@ nate_syd: seriously mate, how much TIME and broken balls did you go through to get this sorted?
It's not worth the hassle is it? that's why I just don't bother with buying stuff from suss overseas turkeys pretending they are here in OZ. 

Welcome to the forum btw    great kickstarter to a quiet week   

Its worth getting the money back so i can get a proper AU compliant Iron IMHO...
Bit of time on ebay chat, head up to the JP for a signature... not excessive... but its worth fighting for the consumer rights.
Hopefully it helps stop the dodgy practices & save someone else from paying good money for something they should not have.

[blacksheeplogic]

Why did you post this if it wasn't to help others rip a seller off.

At most this poster got a grey import and could have settled for return shipping cost. Instead they manipulated ebay to get a free item and then came here to gloat about it and encourage others to screw the seller and get their free item(s).

[nate_syd]

Why did you post this if it wasn't to help others rip a seller off.

So people understand they have consumer rights & dont have to put up with getting screwed by unscrupulous sellers.

The keeping it is important - as per Muttleys post, you can get screwed & lose out on shipping costs.  So not having to drive around & wait at the post office is important.
I'll change the title to "not having to post it back" - wonder if that'll make people happier...

[Electro Detective]

...At most this poster got a grey import and could have settled for return shipping cost.

Instead they manipulated ebay to get a free item and then came here to gloat about it and encourage others to screw the seller and get their free item(s).

Perhaps dodgy sellers need a good shafting more often than not, to either lift their overall game or POFF

and allow TRUE local sellers to earn an honest dollar and give support on products for a few dollars/cents more.   

[james_s]

Who got screwed here? Who cares if something doesn't have the compliance mark if it's a genuine article? I agree with the others here that said you defrauded a gray market seller on a technicality. You know damn well that the certification mark is only a legal technicality and that all Hakko products are properly made and safe to use regardless of the particular certification mark(s) they have for the market in which they are intended. Regardless of what you do with the iron, the seller is out their merchandise and the rest of us pay for incidents like this in the form of higher prices.

[ozcar]

...
We have signed up as a 220V country to comply with world standards...

220V? Crikey, when did that happen? I thought we were currently in year 36 of the 20 year plan to convert to 230V.

[digsys]

... 220V? Crikey, when did that happen? I thought were were currently in year 36 of the 20 year plan to convert to 230V ...

LOL, love the "36th year of the 20 year plan" comment :-) ... Close friends who work with Electrical Inspectors office and our Standards group,
went over to Europe I think begin last year or before that and signed us up ... we complied by fiddling with the +/- figures :-)
Can you imagine rewiring our big ass generators ! It's in the "Too hard" basket :-)
Note also: WA was "officially" 250V. It was/is a huge business buying in products from WA (especially filament light bulbs), as they'd last a HECK of a lot longer.

[james_s]

Note also: WA was "officially" 250V. It was/is a huge business buying in products from WA (especially filament light bulbs), as they'd last a HECK of a lot longer.

This is a classic example of being penny wise and pound foolish. Yes an incandescent lamp will last much longer when run below its design voltage, but the efficiency is also dramatically lower. Bulbs are cheap, electricity is expensive, typically 20-30 times the cost of the bulb spread over its lifespan. The reason 750-1000 hours is typical is it's a compromise that gives the best efficiency while still lasting an acceptably long time.

[plurn]

I remember looking at that listing when I was looking for a soldering iron. Based on those photos, pretty sure that is a fake.

The reason I say that is the bottom/base has cutouts from the old analogue FX888 so they have not bothered copying the base from the newer FX888d - just used the old one.

See also https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/100360-fake-hakko-fx-888d-soldering-station-warning/ for example images

edit: By the way, just checked my genuine hakko FX950 purchased from authorised seller mektronics and it does not have an approval number on it. Are we sure having the approval number on the unit itself is a requirement in Australia?

edit2: my FX950 does have the "Regulatory Compliance Mark" which is sufficient https://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/151832/Recognised-Australian-electrical-approval-marks.pdf

[nate_syd]

You know damn well that the certification mark is only a legal technicality and that all Hakko products are properly made and safe to use regardless of the particular certification mark(s) they have for the market in which they are intended. Regardless of what you do with the iron, the seller is out their merchandise and the rest of us pay for incidents like this in the form of higher prices.

So you're telling me what I do know? interesting.
I have no idea if a 220v iron which seems to be for a Malasian/other market is safe here in Australia running at 240v.  Only Hakko could possibly answer that.

No, the rest of you pay when grey/dodgy importers side step the local distributors.
The distributors have more than likely had to pay big $ to go through certification etc & setup a business to support the products.

The dodgy importers are not paying a cent towards the local business & riding on the back of an established presence in the country.

[TERRA Operative]

So have you smashed the soldering iron yet? If it's not approved, I hope you haven't been using it or your insurance runs the risk of being voided....

[nate_syd]

I remember looking at that listing when I was looking for a soldering iron. Based on those photos, pretty sure that is a fake.

The reason I say that is the bottom/base has cutouts from the old analogue FX888 so they have not bothered copying the base from the newer FX888d - just used the old one.
See also https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/100360-fake-hakko-fx-888d-soldering-station-warning/ for example images

I'd have to do a side by side with my AU one, but it looks to be legit based on that thread - its got roughly the same components/boards & looks to use the same special chip.

If there is any differences though... does that mean they removed/dodgied with it, or the AU one has different components perhaps?!?

[nate_syd]

So have you smashed the soldering iron yet? If it's not approved, I hope you haven't been using it or your insurance runs the risk of being voided....

No, i've been using my AU approved one from Mektronics for weeks, its sitting in a box downstairs.

I've been speaking with the distributor for a few weeks, they may want it etc... so holding it for now.

[plurn]

I remember looking at that listing when I was looking for a soldering iron. Based on those photos, pretty sure that is a fake.

The reason I say that is the bottom/base has cutouts from the old analogue FX888 so they have not bothered copying the base from the newer FX888d - just used the old one.
See also https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/100360-fake-hakko-fx-888d-soldering-station-warning/ for example images

I'd have to do a side by side with my AU one, but it looks to be legit based on that thread - its got roughly the same components/boards & looks to use the same special chip.

If there is any differences though... does that mean they removed/dodgied with it, or the AU one has different components perhaps?!?

If there are differences, I would strongly suspect that the ebay one is not made by Hakko - in that it is counterfeit.

If you do want to do more comparisons (I would understand if you can't be bothered) between real and fake, this video does a short teardown and comparison of counterfeit and real AU model FX888D

They are very close - looks like they have updated the base of the counterfeit one to match the FX888D now. So those ebay images may be old.

[Electro Detective]

and allow TRUE local sellers to earn an honest dollar and give support on products for a few dollars/cents more.

F the locals. If you can't compete int'l competitors offering the same quality, you deserve to die.

LOL, I'll see your bait and raise you two red squigglies...   

F the OS parasite sellers, they'll die first when the locals wake up and stop clicking on halfassed manufactured s*** they can live without

Sometimes it takes the locals here        a little while for them to get that   


We can live without dodgy knockoffs supplied with instruction leaflets bordering on USELESS, year in year out, worthy of Stereo Facepalm           

I mean come on, how much cost is it to pay someone fluent in inglese a one time cost to type up a proper ENGLISH A4 folded instruction sheet,

and email it to the underpaid flip flop wearing person over there (real deal worker  )   that performs print n fold duties 

...and just about everything else 16/7 


FWIW in the last few years it's not hard to notice that even feral animals do not  'compete' at levels some sellers have lowered themselves to 

and I doubt a 220 volt rated soldering iron will have issues on most 240 volt supplies,

especially during Winter and Summer, when most places are LUCKY to get a solid 220v coming in from the overworked sagging street transformers

[GeoffreyF]

I dont *think* they are illegal, i know them to be.

Looks like you're in a different country - but you should be aware.
Electrical goods sold in a country may need to comply with standards - safety etc.  This is one of those items.

So if the item is NOT marked as approved, it is illegal to be sold.
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/buying-products-and-services/product-and-service-safety/electrical-safety/safety-labels-for-electrical-goods

I never said they were counterfeit, the form i was sent said counterfeit in the title - i have always stated non-compliant.  Re-read the title of the post.


Again you're very aggressive & making statements, yet not reading anything.
Please make sure you read teh posts before commenting.

Except - it is compliant.  It is authentic.  Then there is the question of why you post your "clever" scheme to get a perfectly service able,widely used in Australia, product.   Clearly you are proud of getting something which is perfectly good - for free. 

As for reading the posts before commenting, people have told you why your behavior is reprehensible, based on your own words.   Not one thought on your part about what is really right and wrong - not one.   I READ EVERY WORD and they stink.   

You missed another thing - what you signed is subject to review. You may be heading to court.

Here is a question?  Why did you post your sad story?  TELL US.   Tell us why you think your original post is worthy of interest or commendation.  Clearly nobody here thinks it is!  Deal with that as an opportunity to learn what is right and wrong.

[rsjsouza]

In this case, is there a strong reason to make the non-compliance claim?
Is the Hakko station rated for 220V or 240V?
Does it have the Australian plug?
(Maybe you stated this in your posts, but I missed)

yes - the AU ones are stamped & have an approval number, as per the Fair Trading post above.
Also, whats interesting, even if the *exact* item already has approval, you CANNOT import it yourself or use that approval number!

its 220v NOT 240v

It has an AU plug, but looks like they're doing that themselves at a factory, as the cord is DIFFERENT to the AU approved ones.  And i wouldnt use a plug to indicate that its ok of course

Interesting; the product then seems to be compliant for a different market or maybe adapted at the retailer. The eBay listing claims to have valid Hakko serial numbers. Did you check at their website? Compliance and authenticity are very different things.

If the unit states a 220V rating (and not a 220~240Vac as claimed by the eBay listing) I would be concerned with reduced durability and, as Dave's Weller video post showed, an overrated fuse (or no fuse at all) could wreak havoc on your lab - although I would be hard pressed to believe that such marginal difference between voltages could cause such apocalypse as in Dave's case.

Also, would you mind sending photographs of the compliance marks between the unit acquired in the local distributor and the one in question? That may be useful for others looking to purchase the same unit.

Regarding the validity of your actions, I suspect the choice of words may not have been the best but I personally didn't read too much into it.

[wraper]

Interesting; the product then seems to be compliant for a different market or maybe adapted at the retailer. The eBay listing claims to have valid Hakko serial numbers. Did you check at their website? Compliance and authenticity are very different things.

FX888D-06BY, as on the pictures in the ebay listing, has Australian plug and 220V on the sticker out of the Hakko factory. It is made for Chinese market and there are no cable modifications.

[Shock]

Is a 220V model in Australia that big a deal?

The Hakko FX-888D manual states the transformer part B3739 is 220-240V. The fuse plate B3680 is 220V, B3723 is 230V and B3724 is 240V. Then there is the power cable.

Those appear to be the only differences so it would seem the fuse plate is the only change required, and as far as I can see from images the MOV and mains wire positions are changed to reconfigure between 220V-240V, but obviously this would need to be checked properly.

Junggwok mentioned a while back in 2013 while traveling to Shanghai, China a FX888D from the Hakko store was $75 AUD and a counterfeit brought nearby was $35 AUD. It's worth noting how close he says those two versions were to the Australian 240V model.

[nate_syd]

Is a 220V model in Australia that big a deal?

Thats the thing - no one here could ever really say... and i'm not betting my life on it - hence the refund.

[nate_syd]

Except - it is compliant.  It is authentic.  Then there is the question of why you post your "clever" scheme to get a perfectly service able,widely used in Australia, product.   Clearly you are proud of getting something which is perfectly good - for free. 

You missed another thing - what you signed is subject to review. You may be heading to court.

Here is a question?  Why did you post your sad story?  TELL US.   Tell us why you think your original post is worthy of interest or commendation.  Clearly nobody here thinks it is!  Deal with that as an opportunity to learn what is right and wrong.

All of these have been answered, in fact you quoted where i answered these.
Please re-read the posts.

[KL27x]

All of these have been answered, in fact you quoted where i answered these.
Please re-read the posts.

You're delusional.

This is evidently a genuine product which the only thing you have to complain about is that it was perhaps sold in a different regional market than what Hakko distribution model originally intended. If this was done by a seller/exporter that got these devices from a distributor that is knowingly and intentionally circumventing contractual obligations with Hakko, then you can say this is "bad faith." And if Hakko can track down the leak and wants to terminate business with this distributor and/or sue someone involved, then that's their business.

If you subsequently bought a genuine unit from the official distribution chain, then you helped Hakko. But stiffing the eBay seller did not help. If they have legal recourse to sue a distributor or unauthorized reseller, that is less $$ for them to recoup in court. If you wanted to be Captain Britain, Champion of Capitalism, you could have writtten to Hakko to inform them of the issue. Whether you return the item to the seller or keep it... or pull the stunt you did.... I promise you they don't care one bit.

Thats the thing - no one here could ever really say... and i'm not betting my life on it - hence the refund.

Yes, plenty of people here can "really say," even if you cannot. And a "refund" means you returned the item. You did not. I got an LOL from the title of your post, and the "imported from Malaysia" was solid gold. Yes, genuine Hakko stations are made in Malaysia.

[nate_syd]

This is evidently a genuine product which the only thing you have to complain about is that it was perhaps sold in a different regional market than what Hakko distribution model originally intended.

If this was done by a seller/exporter that got these devices from a distributor that is knowingly and intentionally circumventing contractual obligations with Hakko, then you can say this is "bad faith."

If you subsequently bought a genuine unit from the official distribution chain, then you helped Hakko.

It was sold illegally, it is illegal to sell the item in Australia, this has been stated multiple times.  It is NOT just a "different market", it is an illegal item.
Its NOT a grey import, it is an ILLEGAL item. There is a difference.

Its not "bad faith" - they are circumventing Australian rules & regulations, it is illegal activity.

Yes i did help hakko, and as stated multiple times i've been speaking with distributor about the issue for a few weeks, so they can help resolve it at teh company level.

[GeoffreyF]

So you're telling me what I do know? interesting.
I have no idea if a 220v iron which seems to be for a Malasian/other market is safe here in Australia running at 240v.  Only Hakko could possibly answer that.

No, the rest of you pay when grey/dodgy importers side step the local distributors.
The distributors have more than likely had to pay big $ to go through certification etc & setup a business to support the products.

The dodgy importers are not paying a cent towards the local business & riding on the back of an established presence in the country.

Hakko did tell you when they put their service mark on it.  NOTHING you write justifies your pride in obtaining a freebie - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  You still don't get it? That is what we are telling you.  Your pride of getting a freebie is disgusting.   So stop trying to explain why you are cheating.  Someone is paying for what you didn't pay for.   Do yourself a favor and stop justifying and hope by your next post we will all forget these posts you have done.

[nate_syd]

justifies your pride in obtaining a freebie - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  You still don't get it? That is what we are telling you.  Your pride of getting a freebie is disgusting.

I have nothing... i have something sitting in a box i'll be tossing.
how is this a freebie when i dont have anything? 

[KL27x]

He maintains a moral high ground since he "can't (legally? safely?) use it or ship it anywhere," and has purchased another one through a local Hakko distributor. This is the part he is silent about, despite any reasonable suggestion that he might be wrong on all counts. If there's a fine or freeze of funds, a lawsuit, or worse legal punishment, it will be to the importer/exporter, not the cops coming to your door to unplug your soldering iron and write you a citation. OP might consider returning his law degree to the cereal box from which it came.

The only way you are technically putting yourself at legal risk, is if you buy a lot of them and turn around and sell them as new with a markup for profit. This can technically make you a distributor. Even if bought 10 or 20 stations as a legitimate end-user use and later sold them to someone else for w/e they wanted to pay, you would have no legal worries. Now if you decided to try out another 10 or 20 every year, and somehow ended up selling them off at a high price, you might have some problems.

[Electro Detective]

justifies your pride in obtaining a freebie - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  You still don't get it? That is what we are telling you.  Your pride of getting a freebie is disgusting.

I have nothing... i have something sitting in a box i'll be tossing.
how is this a freebie when i dont have anything?

Why toss a 220v item when it will work fine on 240v ? 

This is not an inquisition nor kangaroo court, you scored it it fair and square and legal like afaict.

The self appointed rock throwers (the ones with no imported knockoff gear on their bench ) just don't get that it's not your attitude or fault that opportunities like this exist,
to take advantage of suss distributor/sellers leeching business from fat reputable companies > that don't bother to address the situation.


FWIW: It won't make any difference to Hakko and or ThreeHungLow coffers if nate_syd did them over for 1000 x 220 volt faux Hakkos

No one is going to deal with it either way, even to set an example. It's not worth it for big players to rock boats for too many reasons.
They may even be affiliated and allowed to bend business practices a bit, for more product style exposure 


@ nate_syd: you do realise Sir, if found guilty as charged you may be banished to the colonies for life,

most likely Australia, to do hard time along the coast with only that amber fluid to sustain you   


i.e. cough up the life savings and that Hakko refund for a good attorney 



 

[nate_syd]

most likely Australia, to do hard time along the coast with only that amber fluid to sustain you   

i.e. cough up the life savings and that Hakko refund for a good attorney 

ha!
yeah beaches & beer as punishment.

This whole legal thing is hilarious, no one has ever seen the stat dec - yet they're constantly bringing it up that i may face legal issues.
Dumbfounded that people will happily ignore posts & give comment on something they have zero knowledge about, well i guess its the internet!

[KL27x]

No one thinks you are going to face any legal issues over this. It's too expensive to go after every little fish that gets a "refund" without returning the merch, simply by being a PITA. We all just pay higher eBay fees to cover this waste of time and payroll.

[nate_syd]

No one thinks you are going to face any legal issues over this. It's too expensive to go after every little fish that gets a "refund" without returning the merch, simply by being a PITA. We all just pay higher eBay fees to cover this waste of time and payroll.

Ahhh its my fault you're paying more... not the dodgy sellers or Ebay not putting in the right mechanisms to stop sale of dodgy goods... & stop false advertising...
gotcha

[Electro Detective]

No one thinks you are going to face any legal issues over this. It's too expensive to go after every little fish that gets a "refund" without returning the merch, simply by being a PITA.

We all just pay higher eBay fees to cover this waste of time and payroll.

Ahhh its my fault you're paying more... not the dodgy sellers or Ebay not putting in the right mechanisms to stop sale of dodgy goods... & stop false advertising...

gotcha

ROFL, yes mate, you have to take the rap for now, 

well, at least till the next new poster rocks up with a similar 'experience'

and this is all forgotten... 

[TheNewLab]

Excellent! now you an electronics project to tear it down and make it safe!!

I am guessing that you got a complete refund. The cost for parts will be well less than the price, no matter how cheapie the unit is.

Ah well, I tend to think like this OPPORTUNITY!! 

[stj]

this whole thread is both amazing and disgusting!

you purchased a real hakko station.
then scammed the seller,
then bragged about it,
then tried to hide behind your flag,
then tried to BS about safety when your own electrical wiring standards are a bit of a joke.

what a dick!! 


btw, technically your the importer, so your responsible.

[GeoffreyF]

It was sold illegally, it is illegal to sell the item in Australia, this has been stated multiple times.  It is NOT just a "different market", it is an illegal item.
Its NOT a grey import, it is an ILLEGAL item. There is a difference.

Its not "bad faith" - they are circumventing Australian rules & regulations, it is illegal activity.

Yes i did help hakko, and as stated multiple times i've been speaking with distributor about the issue for a few weeks, so they can help resolve it at teh company level.

Get a lawyer.  We have heard you and read you.  You made it really obvious from the get go - YOUR JOY WAS A FREEBIE not saving Australia from law breakers.   We have read your words perhaps more carefully than you have.  That  includes actual australians.

THE VERY BEST YOU CAN HOPE FOR IS THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU.   The rest of us - you have our judgement and IF YOU READ - that will not change.  We read you carefully and we don't like what you wrote.

[plurn]

this whole thread is both amazing and disgusting!

you purchased a real hakko station.
then scammed the seller,
then bragged about it,
then tried to hide behind your flag,
then tried to BS about safety when your own electrical wiring standards are a bit of a joke.

what a dick!! 


btw, technically your the importer, so your responsible.

> you purchased a real hakko station.

I still think there is a very high chance it is counterfeit. If it is counterfeit would you still be so in love with the seller?

> then scammed the seller,

would not have been an issue if the seller had not scammed the buyer first

> then bragged about it,
> then tried to hide behind your flag,
> then tried to BS about safety when your own electrical wiring standards are a bit of a joke.

Australian wiring standards being a bit of a joke is news to me. As I understand it safety is taken extremely seriously here. Not really sure what you are referring to with that comment. Just taking an unfounded potshot perhaps.

> what a dick!! 

Seems there are a lot of dicks in this thread. Really nice way to treat a new forum member people.

> btw, technically your the importer, so your responsible.

The ebay ad said the "Item location: Alexandria, NSW, Australia" so if the original poster is the importer it was not by choice - it was by the seller being dishonest about the location.

[nate_syd]

Get a lawyer.  We have heard you and read you.  You made it really obvious from the get go - YOUR JOY WAS A FREEBIE not saving Australia from law breakers.   We have read your words perhaps more carefully than you have.  That  includes actual australians.

THE VERY BEST YOU CAN HOPE FOR IS THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU.   The rest of us - you have our judgement and IF YOU READ - that will not change.  We read you carefully and we don't like what you wrote.

Are you threatening me?

wowsers - an angry bunch here...

[wraper]

Seems there are a lot of dicks in this thread. Really nice way to treat a new forum member people.

Dishonest pricks are not welcome.

[gnif]

This topic is going nowhere, locking it.

All you need to do is think, "is what I am about to do moral or not". Then look at the law, and weigh up whats right vs whats "legally right". I am not going to judge you based on your actions, but I can say without a doubt that personally I would have returned the item since it's not counterfeit, as I feel that keeping it would be wrong, and destroying it would just be wasteful, we throw enough away already.