Author Topic: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools  (Read 26689 times)

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Offline jahonen

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2012, 04:34:39 am »
The Metcal you tested is not really an apples to apples comparison.  The SP200 is a more light-duty iron (35W).  The MX-5000 is the main soldering iron in their lineup (80W).

Unfortunately I don't have the MX-5000 around to try the same thing. You are right about the intended usage, but I mentioned it anyway that I tried it. Didn't really expect it to be suitable for such a heavy task.

My purpose was more like to tell that MCPCB tends to be really hard to solder, not that WSP80 or SP200 are bad (have used both quite a lot in the past, and I still use them now and then).

Regards,
Janne
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 03:41:57 pm by jahonen »
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 11:41:11 am »
Dont forget the 32mm wide 245 tip shown earlier in this thread soldering at 260C ;D

T245 scales nicely from very small sized tip to huge 6.6 mm one:

Offline ciccio

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 12:45:30 am »
I've used JBC stations and I truly appreciated them (I also own an old JBC desoldering station), but the bad reports that I read here  about Weller reliability are not confirmed by  my experience.
I've used Weller equipment for more than 35 years (I bought my first Magnastat station in 1978) and, apart some  contact cleaning in the handle's magnetic switch, the were really reliable.
In my lab I have 5 Wellers, of different models, including the 1978 one (that is still operating), and they work like a charm. No problems, really..
Maybe the Weller units sold in the US are not the same sold in Europe? From the photos I see on the US catalog, it is possible: the hand-pieces are different.
I must admit that  JBC are better, because of their fast heating-up and thermal recovery, but the price difference is high.
Best regards
Ciccio

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Offline T4P

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 02:08:24 am »
All i know is the modern Wellers are shit, the old ones lasts long but the new ones not
Not even the new engineered soldering station engineers knew their nuts
Look at the WX-2 around this forum, it's appalling even at $2000 i would buy a JBC instead! Thank god i didn't win the roadtest ... or else i would go crazy
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2012, 04:24:46 am »
The Metcal you tested is not really an apples to apples comparison.  The SP200 is a more light-duty iron (35W).  The MX-5000 is the main soldering iron in their lineup (80W).
The JBC document comparing different irons to JBC linked to somewhere here showed the the MX5000 performance is pretty close to the JBC. In terns of the best irons it seems there is JBC and Metcal, and then everyone else.  Both also have the big advantage of a very close handle to tip distance.
I don't think JBC have done a very good job of publicising their products - they seem to have a pretty low profile, like Metcal did maybe 15years ago. I'm sure there's some scope for some creative Youtubeness showing them soldering some insane loads. Gotta be better than that ridiculous vid Weller did a while ago...
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Offline T4P

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2012, 05:16:43 am »
This one right?
 

Offline jahonen

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2012, 06:11:07 am »
I should also emphasize that my experience is that it is extremely difficult to describe the soldering experience via just some document or numbers/graphs, as it is very personal thing. Only good way to find out is to try it hands on.

One thing what I hate about Weller WD 2 at my work, is that the station UI design is just horrible. Without a stand with a switch, one needs a manual(!) to figure out how to exit the hibernation state! At least I didn't get it out of that state without checking that in the manual. That should at least be very intuitive function. It seems that you must first select the channel to wake up, and then press both up/down arrows simultaneously to do that! Fastest way is then just to turn the power off and back again :) What the hell the UI designer was thinking? What I looked at WX2 manual, it seemed to have relatively complex "multimedia" UI with many buttons, I wonder if there are similar brainfarts.

I agree with Mike on the point that JBC could make more noise about their products, they would deserve it. Like I said, they tend to be quite obscure. Not that you can't get them, but not even near as easily as Weller, from my perspective. I can go to local electronics shop and get a Weller station (probably not the WX off the shelf but something anyway, and even WX within day or two if I would want that), but same does not unfortunately apply to JBC, even if I would wish that would be the case.

Regards,
Janne
 

Offline zaoka

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2012, 07:52:50 am »
The Metcal you tested is not really an apples to apples comparison.  The SP200 is a more light-duty iron (35W).  The MX-5000 is the main soldering iron in their lineup (80W).

Unfortunately I don't have the MX-5000 around to try the same thing. You are right about the intended usage, but I mentioned it anyway that I tried it. Didn't really expect it to be suitable for such a heavy task.

My purpose was more like to tell that MCPCB tends to be really hard to solder, not that WSP80 or SP200 are bad (have used both quite a lot in the past, and I still use them now and then).

Regards,
Janne

8 year old JBC AD2700 is still faster than newest MX5000 Metcal, check JBC comparation PDF for details.

Old Weller units are good and long lasting, however, their technology is old today. Weller come up with MT1500 several years ago, however, its tip desing were terrible! If you press with tip a couple of time it creates bad contact inside of tip and it starts overheating. Tips cost were around $45 at that time.

Also sensitivity of that station was bad, often it rises temperature much more than needed.

 

 

Offline vzoole

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2012, 07:27:02 am »
8 year old JBC AD2700 is still faster than newest MX5000 Metcal, check JBC comparation PDF for details.

But don't forget the Metcal MX5000 is a ~20 years old device in new case with LCD display.
 

Offline Mistretzul

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2012, 07:45:22 am »
Hello guys,
I see that you know a lot of things about JBC soldering tool , also some of you got at work or at home these tools. (at work I got only a hot air JBC , the rest are also Weller :D).

For a 4-5 years I've been using at home Pensol for hobby purpose but now I feel I need something more precise. I can not afford to buy a JBC soldering station. I would like to use a JBC soldering iron : http://www.tme.eu/ro/details/jbc-t210-a/statii-de-lipit-accesorii/jbc-tools/t210-a/# , and make my own control unit ( I am an embedded SW engineer so I have a lot of ideas regarding the control SW).

The thing is I can not find any information of how this iron is controlled by a JBC soldering station. I think it might be PWM but I don't know voltages , frequencies , what type of temp sensor the iron has and what is it's output.

Can you guys help me with some information ?
 

Offline poodyp

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2012, 08:15:04 am »
JBC uses the same technique that other irons use (switched 60hz), but the heating element doubles as a thermocouple, and they alternate between heating and sensing. Because the temperature is sensed right in the tip, the thermal lag is almost zero, and the iron can be driven much harder and faster, and still avoid overshoot.
 

Offline Mistretzul

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2012, 08:22:17 am »
Do you know which type of thermocouple uses ? (k,r,...etc) Also at the end connector do you know which pins are for heater element and which are for thermocouple ?

When you say switched 60Hz you are referring to AC voltage (you are referring at the control of command angle of a triac ) ?

My idea was to use PWM (24 V) for the heating element and for temperature stabilization I want to use a fuzzy regulator (for this kind of application works great , also I want implement some fetures that I've seen on Weller solder stations). But for this I need to know the domain of my inputs and outputs.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 08:31:53 am by Mistretzul »
 

Offline larry42

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2012, 07:26:49 am »
The old magnastat Wellers are reliable, but not suitable for modern lead-free soldering. Ive just ordered a 1200 euro (ex VAT)  JBC DD-2B with T-210 and PA-A.

We had 3 Weller WD2 in the office. Bad UI (though not as bad as the FM201 (?) from Hakko). The problem is that the Wellers went through expensive tips like crazy, at least some had defective reed switches, and Weller's support was bad. I've only heard good things about the JBCs and having used them briefly I like the UI, as well as the feel of the units.

I've soldered 0201 resistors with an older JBC in the office here. The tips seem to last a long time (because no-one seems to take care of the lab, so the tips must have been on for a long time).
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Offline Kibi

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2012, 08:29:30 am »
I too can attest to the magnificence of JBC tools. I have the DIT station (DI single tool controller) and a T245 hand piece. I've soldered M6 brass nuts and bolts with a 2.4mm tip, no problems.
It is expensive, but it is a tool for life. Very impressed.
 

Offline vzoole

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2012, 12:30:38 pm »
make my own control unit ( I am an embedded SW engineer so I have a lot of ideas regarding the control SW).

I'm working on it.

Many thing is done in my head. I would like to design a universal solder controller. Now I'm waiting for Weller WRMP iron. When I get, I'll start public the project.

You can see my controller unit here :)
 
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Offline sparkybg

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2014, 11:32:35 pm »
...but the heating element doubles as a thermocouple...

No, it does not. The thermocouple has it's own terminal on the tip (the smallest one). Hakko T12, Pace TD100 and Weller are using series thermocouple.

It is a non-standart thermocouple.
 

Offline r342f2f

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2016, 08:08:43 am »
Did you try searching for used or refurbished units?  I saw a few on eBay a few weeks back that were much cheaper than new.  New for the compact units were $400+.  Used are like $100-$200.   :-+ :scared:

Hello guys,
I see that you know a lot of things about JBC soldering tool , also some of you got at work or at home these tools. (at work I got only a hot air JBC , the rest are also Weller :D).

For a 4-5 years I've been using at home Pensol for hobby purpose but now I feel I need something more precise. I can not afford to buy a JBC soldering station. I would like to use a JBC soldering iron : http://www.tme.eu/ro/details/jbc-t210-a/statii-de-lipit-accesorii/jbc-tools/t210-a/# , and make my own control unit ( I am an embedded SW engineer so I have a lot of ideas regarding the control SW).

The thing is I can not find any information of how this iron is controlled by a JBC soldering station. I think it might be PWM but I don't know voltages , frequencies , what type of temp sensor the iron has and what is it's output.

Can you guys help me with some information ?
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: JBC T210-A (and PA120-A) handpiece compared to some other tools
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2016, 06:47:21 am »
It feels pretty much like a pen with some wire at the end :) Although the power is just 25 watts, it seems at least as usable as Weller WSP 80 (which has 80 watts heater) for most SMD soldering tasks I tried. Tight integration of the tip to heater works wonders. Here are some comparison pictures:

If you want to compare irons between brands you really need to compare hand pieces that are somewhat equivalent. The WSP80/WP80 is a general purpose iron with a old design but very cheap tips Something like the WRMP hand piece would be a better/fairer  comparison and I doubt you would find much difference in use.

I don't have anything against the JBC but the price point which is why I chose the Weller.  Most manufactures have a range of hand pieces which in use perform very similar to each other and it comes down to how much are you willing to spend and tip selection. I don't expect a relatively low end iron to match a high end micro iron.
 


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