Metcal MX-500 dual ouputs

[Jester]

I often use two soldering irons simultaneously to remove components from a board.

I'm thinking of getting a Metcal MX-500 that has dual outputs, my rational is replace two mediocre soldering stations with one good (dual) soldering station. I now see there is a control that appears to either select one output or the other but not both.

Can any MX-500 users confirm that you can only use one output at a time?

[Fsck]

you're correct. it's a switchable 2-port unit. one iron is powered at a time.

[mikeselectricstuff]

The MX-5200 has simultaneous outputs, however warm-up time on switch-over is quick enough when switching that it's not a big inconvenience

[Jester]

I will consider the 5200 then, thank you.

[SteveyG]

I will consider the 5200 then, thank you.

I have the 5200 (I did a video on it a long time ago). It's worth it if you plan to use the Metcal desolder gun as that does take quite a while to get up to temperature, but otherwise as Mike said the iron is hot in a second or two.

[neslekkim]

Two soldering irons to remove an component?, what about tweezers?
https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx8804.html

etc...

[Wirehead]

What's the advantage of a tweezer system when comparing to a hot-air station and regular tweezers? Seems to me like that would be a more useful addition to the bench?

[neslekkim]

What's the advantage of a tweezer system when comparing to a hot-air station and regular tweezers? Seems to me like that would be a more useful addition to the bench?

I often use two soldering irons simultaneously to remove components from a board.

Instead of this I would guess it gives lot of advantages.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Two soldering irons to remove an component?, what about tweezers?
https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx8804.html

etc...

2 irons are better - more maneuverable. with tweezers you need to get them in line with the component to get good thermal contact on both - this is easier to do with 2 irons. I have some Metcal tweezers but can't remember when I last used them.

[zapta]

Two soldering irons to remove an component?, what about tweezers?

Or those Metcal part removal tips

[The Soulman]

I use a weller wdd161v dual soldering station it can power two 80 watt (or less) soldering irons simultaneously,
there is one button to toggle the temperature adjustment buttons and display between the two channels.
For what it's worth..

[mikeselectricstuff]

Two soldering irons to remove an component?, what about tweezers?

Or those Metcal part removal tips

Those are a PITA to get the part  out of afterwards. the only useful  types are the wide ones for pulling off SO8's etc. and even then only when you have enough to remove that it's quicker than braid etc.
 

[Smith]

I use a Weller WD2M (basically a WD2 with built in USB support), it has 2 ports with 160 watts max total power. I regularly use 2 channels at one time, but it's also nice not having to unplug when switching between the iron and tweezers.

[MaximRecoil]

Two soldering irons to remove an component?, what about tweezers?

I don't get the point of tweezers like that. 2-contact SMDs (which is all that tweezers like that would be good for removing) can simply be swiped off the board with your normal tip (STTC-126 in my case). You put the tip to one of the joints, then move it to the other joint and sweep it off the board in one quick motion. Depending on your speed, and/or the amount of solder that's already on the joints, you may need to add some extra solder to the two joints first, which gives you more time to get your iron to the second joint while the first joint is still molten. I just made a quick video (with a crappy camera) to demonstrate this:

https://youtu.be/tfJw5hlWCiY

When I worked in a PCB factory in the late 1990s I did that all the time, and rarely had to add any solder to the joints first. This is the first time I've done it in about 18 years, so to be on the safe side, I added solder first (ensuring I didn't have to do multiple takes to get the hang of it again).

With regard to dual output on a Metcal, I've always wondered what would happen if you used an F splitter off one port like this:



Does anyone know? 

[N2IXK]

You would likely burn the splitter out.  They contain a tiny ferrite broadband transformer, that will not handle the several watts of power provided by the Metcal base unit.

[Monkeh]

You would likely burn the splitter out.  They contain a tiny ferrite broadband transformer, that will not handle the several watts of power provided by the Metcal base unit.

Several tens of, you mean.

[MaximRecoil]

You would likely burn the splitter out.  They contain a tiny ferrite broadband transformer, that will not handle the several watts of power provided by the Metcal base unit.

Okay, suppose you didn't use one of those splitters, but rather, just a coaxial Y-cable, or an F connector "T" like this ...



... neither of which contain any components to burn out; they are just a 1-to-2 parallel connection.

[N2IXK]

You would then be loading the output of the RF power amp with ~1/2 the impedance it was designed for.  It may not like that, and magic smoke release becomes a possibility....

[jonatanrullman]

Okay, suppose you didn't use one of those splitters, but rather, just a coaxial Y-cable, or an F connector "T" like this ...

[...]

... neither of which contain any components to burn out; they are just a 1-to-2 parallel connection.

Also, it would kind of interfere with the regulating circuit of the base unit. If I haven't been completely mislead the station measures the amount of power returned by the handle and regulates the output to avoid frying it. Magic smoke sounds like a pretty good summary to me. :-)

I did however see a link a few days ago to a thread where someone had built their own supply for handles like the metcal. Perhaps you could build your own dual base unit instead?

CHeers

[wkb]

Okay, suppose you didn't use one of those splitters, but rather, just a coaxial Y-cable, or an F connector "T" like this ...

[...]

... neither of which contain any components to burn out; they are just a 1-to-2 parallel connection.

Also, it would kind of interfere with the regulating circuit of the base unit. If I haven't been completely mislead the station measures the amount of power returned by the handle and regulates the output to avoid frying it. Magic smoke sounds like a pretty good summary to me. :-)

I did however see a link a few days ago to a thread where someone had built their own supply for handles like the metcal. Perhaps you could build your own dual base unit instead?

CHeers

Well, no.  The heating element in the tip itself regulates temperature around the Curie point of the tip.  The generator has protection circuits for high SWR etc but it does not regulate temp.

[jonatanrullman]

Well, no.  The heating element in the tip itself regulates temperature around the Curie point of the tip.  The generator has protection circuits for high SWR etc but it does not regulate temp.

I know that. But I was under the impression that to avoid getting say 50 watts of rf energy returned it monitored the return and regulated the output. That may or may not be the exact same thing that you mean by "high SWR etc".

[zapta]

Well, no.  The heating element in the tip itself regulates temperature around the Curie point of the tip.  The generator has protection circuits for high SWR etc but it does not regulate temp.

Any idea how much power a handpiece consumes while resting in the stand? If this is a small fraction of the total 40W then the rest would be sufficient for a second working handpiece.

[jonatanrullman]

Any idea how much power a handpiece consumes while resting in the stand? If this is a small fraction of the total 40W then the rest would be sufficient for a second working handpiece.

Since they don't have temperature regulation in the base unit I can only assume (since I don't have one myself) that the version that have a sleep mode shuts of the power completely to the handle, so the power consumption would supposedly be negligible. This would explain why some of the dual stations mentioned previously supported one handle in use at a time.

Would still have all other sorts of problems with hooking up two handles to a unit not designed for it though.

Cheers

[GreyWoolfe]

I have the 5200 (I did a video on it a long time ago). It's worth it if you plan to use the Metcal desolder gun as that does take quite a while to get up to temperature, but otherwise as Mike said the iron is hot in a second or two.

scuse me , at soon i will buy an metcal soldering station "mx500".
I really wish see some pics of teardown before .
I also want to know if this unit will be good for me as i do not want to to use 2 channels at the same time ,but only 1 at time .

P.S :
i really can't find some metcal's mx500 or 5000 teardown pics ,can anyone help me ?
Thanks

It will work fine for you.  I have one and it is a real treat to solder with.  I wouldn't worry about tear down pics.  These are designed to work continuously in a production environment.  For the hobbyist user, it's basically bullet proof.

[SteveyG]

Any idea how much power a handpiece consumes while resting in the stand? If this is a small fraction of the total 40W then the rest would be sufficient for a second working handpiece.

Since they don't have temperature regulation in the base unit I can only assume (since I don't have one myself) that the version that have a sleep mode shuts of the power completely to the handle, so the power consumption would supposedly be negligible. This would explain why some of the dual stations mentioned previously supported one handle in use at a time.

Would still have all other sorts of problems with hooking up two handles to a unit not designed for it though.

Cheers

The base unit is always driving the iron. The magnet just interferes with the magnetic field around the heating element preventing it getting as hot.

No photos of the internals, but I wouldn't worry. If you can find an old MX-500 then even better as there is much less to go wrong. We have some 15 year old units at work still going strong.