Metcal or Thermaltronics or ... ?

[marber]

As someone who's got the "Metcal experience" just yesterday, I guess I could weigh in.

I've been a happy Hakko FX-888 user for several years now as a hobbyist, and I can't really say I've noticed much in terms of insufficient thermal response of that iron. I actually like it quite a bit. However, this week I ran across a Metcal MX-500P second hand, in very good shape, for EUR 50. Given the praise for Curie Point technology - and Metcal irons in particular - I've been seeing on this forum over the years, I decided to give it a shot. I paired it with a brand new MX-H1-AV handset + stand (aka MX-UK1) for EUR 130 from E-bay, and some tips.

So I can compare it to my FX-888, even though I realize they're not really in the same class, as e.g. a JBC might be.

It sure is fast indeed. Heats up out of the stand in a few seconds and melts most joints pretty much instantly. I've been desoldering some through-hole boards today, and it was especially noticeable with some solder wick, compared to the Hakko, often wicking up all solder out of a joint in a second or two on touch. Although I already enjoyed working with the FX-888, the Metcal really makes soldering a pleasure as it's so much faster.

I did actually lift two pads with it, which rarely happened to me before. Not sure why yet - I measured my STTC-137 tip at 370C, just a bit higher than the 350C I usually use on the Hakko. Could be the specific board I was soldering, I'll see if it happens to me more often.

From the online pictures of the MX-H1-AV I thought it looked to be really long, which I was slightly concerned about. However when it showed up it turns out it's actually a bit shorter than the FX-888 handset (and thinner), and a shorter hand-to-tip distance as well, which indeed is nice. For the workstand, so far I actually prefer the FX-888's: I think it's slightly easier to reinsert the iron, I like the (grey) sponge better, and the rubber with the brass wool is handy as well. Overall I think it looks a bit better than the bulky Metcal stand.

And yeah, the MX500 hums, even when it's off, as the switch is on the secondary side of the transformer. That's a bit annoying. The 5000/5200 (and perhaps the newer 500?) don't have that issue I think.

So far, really happy with it. :-)

[GreyWoolfe]

Marber, enjoy, I love my MX-500P and Hakko FX-951.  I have 90.6 GBP invested w/o tips but I also have the Talon tweezers.  Hopefully, in the not too distant future, I am planning to do a side by side comparison between the 2 just for fun.

[Bassman59]

Another happy Metcal user here. I first ran into them at some point at the job right after college (i graduated in 1988). The guys doing the RF assembly had a couple SP200 units. They were significantly better than the standard Weller things. I finally ponied up for my own SP200 in 1998 and I've had it ever since. I'm all lead free so I have four different 700-degree tips and it all works great.

At the day job, in the engineering area it's all Metcal. The assembly techs have MX500s or whatever the newer version is called. We have SP200s and the OKI replacements on several benches. As the Wellers in the production area die they get replaced with Metcals, too.

I went to the local electronics supply shop not long ago and saw that the nearby bomb factory had excessed a bunch of Metcal kit. I put out the word and within an hour I had enough friends who wanted the stuff so I went back and bought it all.

[GreyWoolfe]

Bassman59, I have to ask, how much?

[onesixright]

Thank you all for the many replies.

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on the MX-5210. However, today i noticed that mouser.com and digikey.com both removed the Metcal units from their stores. Well at-least digi-key did, mouser is somewhat vague.

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/soldering-desoldering-rework-products/soldering-desoldering-rework-stations/1310841?k=metcal%20mx
they write "call", i talked to them and they said its not longer available, when asking for a reason they had not clue. (they did offer a clone, but thats the 40 watts version).

http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Metcal/MX-5210/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZbG%2fSKwfOjGaDHbVC2ZILjb9xdFNuGYY%3d
Due to government regulations, Mouser is unable to sell this product in your country.  (from europe, and even when selecting the us site with us ip).

Anybody has a clue whats going on? I thought Metcal is (was?) a respectable company, but this is curious (I'mean why are their products pulled?).

Another point that came a cross, was that Metcal tips where more expensive.  But comparing the JBC and Metcal tips it seems, that snot true (any more) ? Maybe a dated arguement?

[john_p_wi]

Maybe try a place like this?

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/metcal/hand-soldering-systems/systems/dual-port-simultaneous-systems/mx-5200-series/mx5200-soldering-rework-system-mx5210.htm

[GreyWoolfe]

And don't forget your EEVblog discount code.

[onesixright]

Thanks! but im in Europe.  Not sure if they ship free, but with import tax, it will be higher then buying it directly from okinternagtional.com (and their is warranty, vat, ...). 

OKI has a nice offer for the 5210 (with 3 tips) for 538 EUR.

https://europe.okinternational.com/europe-web-store/english/globalnavigation/Europe-Webstore-Product-Detail?productId=cd34458f-17cc-40a0-b0fc-9a59d1c32966

Unfortunately OKI/Metcal is incredible slow with their email replies  (kind of same as the speed of their website  )...

Well if they make me wait any longer i go for JBC :-) TME has a 20% discount for the Dutch for the coming days...

Anyway my concern is not where to buy it (you can buy directly), but why big distributers kick the Metcal products out of their stores, they know something we don't? Thats not a good sign.... is it?

[john_p_wi]

Can't really give any insight to Digikey, I do see that Mouser has 2) 5210 in stock with more on order.  I am sure that the VAT and shipping complicates things, something that we are not bothered with here in USA.

I will say that you will be rewarded with performance IF you have patience and pursue the Metcal 5210.

[onesixright]

Hi John,

Thanks. Good to hear it shows up on mouser.  Of course I can wait a few days, i really like the technology, all the positive reactions here made me want to pull the trigger!

But to be-honest I dont get it, how can a company survive like this? Lag in response, website slow and buggy. Not one of their distributors in Europe are selling the newer 52xx, the other 1/2 doesn't even offer online ordering   

Patience is a virtue? 

[0xdeadbeef]

I bought one piece of my MFR equipment here, they also have the  MX-5210 in stock:
http://smartec.de/shop/de/loet-entloettechnik/oki-metcal-loettechnik/oki-loet-entloetstationen
Very friendly people. Prices are without VAT though.

[onesixright]

Thanks  0xdeadbeef, i wrote them a email.

[reagle]

Using  Thermaltronics EB-2000S  stations at work and in my home lab. Basically a cheaper version of Metcal, but they work pretty well and tips are easy to get.
Digikey carries them as EasyBraid brand for under $200

[gmit77]

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 
Would you like to test? Just contact me on PM
link to FX-100 http://tinyurl.com/o5ztksd
link to soldering tips T31 http://tinyurl.com/q8x3mkq

[Monkeh]

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 

As opposed to the high quality and ergonomic handling of the RM3E and the logevity of the full range of Metcal tips?

Hakko are good at the marketing blurb, but Metcal had been making these for decades before Hakko got in on it.

But hey, if you're offering freebies to test..

[gmit77]

yes we will select soon some freebies to tes  is that cool?
I'm sure this will become popular in Europe soon, stay tuned!
for the test we will post here the "how to apply" soon
thanks Monkeh!

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 

As opposed to the high quality and ergonomic handling of the RM3E and the logevity of the full range of Metcal tips?

Hakko are good at the marketing blurb, but Metcal had been making these for decades before Hakko got in on it.

But hey, if you're offering freebies to test..

[Monkeh]

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

[gmit77]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

[Monkeh]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

That is.. quite reasonable.

[zapta]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

This will be a good combination with the DIY Metcal power supply in the other thread.

BTW, the Hakko inductive tips don't fit in a Metcal MX 500 handle. Very different dimensions.

[Monkeh]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

This will be a good combination with the DIY Metcal power supply in the other thread.

Or with the mass of cheaply available Metcal power supplies in the US. The original ones are fairly easily available for $30-50. If the Hakko handpiece and stand can be had for similar prices in the US, then it's almost a no-brainer, if they perform.

[gmit77]

The T31 must be inserted into the FX-1001 then connected to Metcal.

[Monkeh]

The T31 must be inserted into the FX-1001 then connected to Metcal.

Yes, we get that.

[marber]

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 

Nice! That does sound pretty optimal. Wish I had known two weeks ago.

[Smokey]

We recently had an EZBraid rep drop by and show us their stuff.  They claimed that Metcal let their patents lapse or something and anyone can make compatible tips and such now and that's what they started doing.  They said their Metcal compatible tips are cheaper and last longer.  We got a set of sample tips and have been using them in our Metcal base stations.  They have been going strong for like 4 months now.  I can't tell the difference, and they were a little cheaper.

http://www.easybraidco.com/hand-soldering-c-3-l-en.html