Metcal or Thermaltronics or ... ?

[onesixright]

Hi People,

I'm thinking of buying a new solder stations. Curie Point technology got my interest, i know Dave is not a big fan of it ;-)

What do you guys think, is it worth of buying Metcal over Thermaltronics?

Any good reason to shell out a few more bucks and buy a Metcal or is it a waste of money, and Thermaltronics is as good?

I like the thought of the 5200 series, which could get up to 80 watts. However, which situations do require that?  Another thing is the dual channel,  both the 9000 and the 500 series, needs to be switched by hand. Mint a fan of the button on the TMT, but is it truly a issue?

I don't intent to use it for professional use, but i hate "cheap" stuff since -most of the time- it comes back and bites you in the ass (i.e. you end up buying better after all) 

Please take a vote and tell me what you guys think....

Thanks!

[0xdeadbeef]

Why did you rule out the Metcal MFR line - formerly known as OKi?

[onesixright]

Why did you rule out the Metcal MFR line - formerly known as OKi?

No specific reason, i added it. Thanks :-)

[KL27x]

For production use, I'm impressed with Metcal (500). Instant joints and you never have to stop to clean the tip. It seems like the Curie effect produces an instant standby/full-throttle. You can throw all the PID algorithms and power you want at a soldering iron, but you can't take out the thermal lag between the tip and heater/sensor. Until the sensor can read your mind, it will always be one step behind.

I'm not familiar with Thermaltronics. I've used $300 Wellers, cheap generic junk, and I have settled on a small Hakko FX for myself. The difference between any of these irons to me is essentially squat and comes down to ergonomics and cost effectiveness. I was genuinely surprised by the Metcal.

I made my own battery powered, portable iron that runs on standby (slightly above solder melting point) by default. When you push a button, it goes full throttle for a couple seconds. In practice, you push the button, wait a second, then make the joint(s). It works great (on smaller joints), and I never have to clean the tip of that iron. The Metcal seems to approximate that, automatically. I'm convinced that in practice, instant and appropriate POWER regulation beats any attempt at TEMPERATURE regulation. It doesn't matter if the temp of the Metcal goes up if you hold it on a joint for 10 seconds. It doesn't matter than a JBC can hold that joint at exactly X degrees, indefinitely. When the joint reflows, you usually remove the tip. The practical reason why we turn the temp down on our irons where we can isn't to protect delicate electronics from thermal damage. It's to keep the flux from burning up and having to clean and replace tips more often.

[Someone]

I'm one of the few on here who has used both for any substantial period of time (and many other brands too previously) and have personally settled on Metcal stations and tips, both the new 500 series for fine work and the 800/900 for bulk power needs. The Thermaltronics stations I have used were of poor quality and one was replaced under warranty after it burst into flames, the 5 year warranty is comforting but the tips I have tried from them have had very short service life run either in their stations or in metal systems. With competition in the marketplace the Metcal systems are now very affordable and you can find dual hand piece systems new for $1000 USD.

[GreyWoolfe]

Someone, let me ask a question.  You said the Thermaltronics tips have a short service life.  I assume you mean in a production environment.  Do you have an opinion on them for hobbyist use?  They are cheaper than the Metcal tips and I would like to save some money but I don't want to have to replace them after a year of occasional hobby use (also have a Hakko FX-951).  My 936 tips have lasted much longer than that.

[zapta]

Someone, let me ask a question.  You said the Thermaltronics tips have a short service life.  I assume you mean in a production environment.  Do you have an opinion on them for hobbyist use?  They are cheaper than the Metcal tips and I would like to save some money but I don't want to have to replace them after a year of occasional hobby use (also have a Hakko FX-951).  My 936 tips have lasted much longer than that.

I am using Thermaltronics M7DS529 Hoof 60deg 1.52mm tip with Metcal 500 and it became my favorite tip for SMD work. No problem whatsoever though I am a hobbyist so only occasional use.

[alexanderbrevig]

I love my Thermaltronics station. Much prefer it to the Weller at work. Only had it for a few weeks and the build seems very good to me.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[zapta]

As mentioned in another thread, JBC has two categories or solder stations with X4 difference is heating time so it's useful to mention the model when talking about 'JBC'.

[Poe]

Once we started using Metcals the other irons were used less and less.  They all still work, but you'd think they didn't.

We have various high end Pace/Hakko/JBC workstations with various bits and bobs as a comparison.  I have no experience with Thermaltronics or Weller.

[georges80]

I have an old Metcal 500 series. Bought 2nd hand on Ebay some 12+ years ago. It has been rock solid and the only thing I've had to repair/replace is the power switch (wore it out ). It is used just about every day.

The near instant response to thermal demands while soldering makes the Metcal technology fantastic for any soldering jobs I've ever needed to do.

Tips last a long time if you treat them well (solder/flux quality and leave them tinned).

I've used a few thermaltronics tips but I've found that the tip edge on their chisels are not as thin/sharp as the Metcal versions. Given how long the tips last, saving a few dollars isn't worth it to me.

In summary, a very reliable unit and a good long term purchase.

cheers,
george.

[gibbled]

I have one of the older metcal ps2e-01's.  I occasionally consider getting one of the new 5200 series for the higher power output but really can't justify the purchase as the old one does everything so well.

[Monkeh]

Having just recently acquired a PS2E-01 and converted it to real voltage operation, I love it. Using Thermaltronics tips with it (an assortment of chisels up to 5mm and a tiny conical), it'll solder anything from a single pad on a QFN to a TO-220 tab, and be ready to do it in seconds.

Can't recommend proper Metcal or Thermaltronics (either, as long as it's the 13.56MHz stuff) enough. The 470kHz apparently isn't bad, but it's not the same beast at all. Shop around, you can get really good deals from time to time.

[plazma]

The older Metcal units like stss-ps2v-02 can be bought for less than 100€. It's like a 500 series with only one output.

[Someone]

Someone, let me ask a question.  You said the Thermaltronics tips have a short service life.  I assume you mean in a production environment.  Do you have an opinion on them for hobbyist use?

The thermaltronics tips were losing their plating (different batches and different geometries) so while they still worked as a hot object the contact and wetting progressively got worse, it takes all the benefits of the curie heating away since you can no longer deliver the heat to the solder joint directly. The frustration was enough that I wouldn't recommend the tips for now while the price difference is so small ($25US vs $35US).

[john_p_wi]

I own and use the MX-5051 soldering / desoldering station.  At my place of employment we have at least 20 Metcal systems ranging from the 500 series to the 5200 series spread between engineering, production and service.  IMHO, the versatility of the newer Metcal systems (5XXX) is unsurpassed, with 5 tips or so, one can solder anything from the smallest smt to through hole to heavy ground planes.

I believe that the 5200 will allow two hand pieces to be energized simultaneously which could simplify removing smt components, I have not used the 5200 in production so I can't give feedback.  Unfortunately, my only complaint with Metcal is the cost of their talon hand piece - something I can not justify for my personal purchase at this time.  I do have the through hole desoldering "gun" which does work very well though, and if I get in a smt bind I can use the talon's at my work's lab, on the other hand, the  normal hand piece tip - STTC-144 is a fine "bent" tip great for smt 805 r and cs' etc and can easily "sweep" the smaller components off of the pad for rework.

I have been soldering for 40 years, there is no comparison between "classic" irons and the Metcal system.  I often wonder why people will spend thousands on test equipment but only dollars on soldering equipment which is probably the most used equipment on the bench???


 

[zapta]

For all the Metcal users, do you use tips with different temperatures or just one temperature fits them all?

I have 5 tips and they are all 1xxx temperature.

[john_p_wi]

For personal use and builds I use the STTC 413 degree C tips with 63 37 leaded solder.  I only change the tip size and solder dia.  The newer Metcals regulate temps very well, I use it for everything from smt processors to heavy leaded tube amp stuff.

[Mephitus]

I also have a Metcal PS2E-01 that I got from my local classifieds for $15 USD (The gods of electronics shone their electron glory on me that day). Take my opinion with a grain of salt as I have not purchased any tips yet, but the thing is built like a brick. For a unit that is this old, if you treat it right, you will probly kick the bucket before it does. I honestly think I could run a semi-truck over it and only have to worry about scratching the paint. Performance wise I have always heard people compair it to the (now classic) MX-500 units with the only real difference being that it only has 1 connection. The mind-boggling variety of tips with reliable operational temperatures means you can always find *exactly* the right tool for the job.

That being said, if you need something a little easier to move around or for basic usage. I have always heard fantastic things about the Hakko FX-888 and up. Or the Weller WD and WX series stations.

[GreyWoolfe]

Mephitus, you got the glory for the price you paid but you will have an epiphany when you use it.  I recently scored an MX-500 with the Talon tweezers/cradle for free by bartering a whole bunch of components and NOS switches(1,000 of them) someone gave me at a new local surplus store.  I scored a NOS RM3E wand and new WS-1 cradle off eBay for $140 USD total.  I got 1 tip to fully test and I getting ready to order more.  Metcal makes great stuff that, if treated right, just lasts.  I wish I would have found it before I purchased my Hakko FX-951, but I didn't try to return the Hakko as I love that station also and it is nice to have 2 awesome soldering irons on my bench.  As a further kick to the total cost, I sold my 7 year old Hakko 936 that I bought for a project for work and wrote off on my taxes for $50 and I even threw in a 2nd power supply I got for free and 6 tips-that money went toward the wand and cradle.

I have always been the one to say, why can't I ever get deals like that.  I think I did OK with my Metcal.  That same store is selling RFG-30 power supplies, tested, for $35 USD.

[D3f1ant]

I've not used other currie point units besides the Metcal. We have a couple of them in production, and they have proven extremely reliable with superb tip life. I've used very expensive (Ersa and Weller) soldering irons in various workplaces, and IMO none of them perform as well as as even entry level metcals. With a currie point you don't need to change to a bigger tip or crank up the temperature when soldering something a bit bigger than your technically setup for. Changing tips is easy, and fast...3 or 4 tips and you can literally solder anything.

Currie Point technology just seems to give a superior soldering experience, almost no thermal lag and no tweaking temperatures. I don't know about the metcal clones (thermaltronics are tip compatible = clone, I think), I tend to dislike clones on principle. Hakko do a currie point iron too now, but tip availability might be a problem. At least with a metcal you can buy tips from the big catalog suppliers, and they usually have stock.

I admit, I became a metcal fan from the first day I used one, it just works so well.

[Someone]

For all the Metcal users, do you use tips with different temperatures or just one temperature fits them all?

I have 5 tips and they are all 1xxx temperature.

I have some of the low temperature tips for plastic working!

[timofonic]

 Curry Point Technology, delicious geek stuff!

Jokes aside, anyone tried to build the DIY Metcal Soldering Station? I'm unable to decipher the forum thread,  nobody summarized and I have problems understanding all this giant bunch if info about RF and component changes...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=12578.0

[0xdeadbeef]

I'm obviously the only user of the Metcal/OKI MFR line here and I can't actually claim I used the "real" Metcal stuff to compare it, but IMHO the MFR line gives you the SmartHeart/Curie technology at a better price point. The built quality of the MFR line is pretty much awesome. The aluminium cast cases are oozing quality, the tips can be easily exchanged while working and the product range is similar. Yet everything (including tweezers, desoldering tool) is quite a bit cheaper. Indeed I wanted to buy some used MX500 or so at first, but finally decided for the MFR line instead. Partly because I couldn't really find anybody stating that the MFR line was really performing worse and partly because the tips and replacement parts for the MFR line are much easier to obtain here (Voelkner/Conrad) while the Metcal/Thermaltronics 13.56MHz stuff is rather difficult to come by.

[Monkeh]

They're easily enough found at Farnell... Tad pricy, though, which is why I imported.

[marber]

As someone who's got the "Metcal experience" just yesterday, I guess I could weigh in.

I've been a happy Hakko FX-888 user for several years now as a hobbyist, and I can't really say I've noticed much in terms of insufficient thermal response of that iron. I actually like it quite a bit. However, this week I ran across a Metcal MX-500P second hand, in very good shape, for EUR 50. Given the praise for Curie Point technology - and Metcal irons in particular - I've been seeing on this forum over the years, I decided to give it a shot. I paired it with a brand new MX-H1-AV handset + stand (aka MX-UK1) for EUR 130 from E-bay, and some tips.

So I can compare it to my FX-888, even though I realize they're not really in the same class, as e.g. a JBC might be.

It sure is fast indeed. Heats up out of the stand in a few seconds and melts most joints pretty much instantly. I've been desoldering some through-hole boards today, and it was especially noticeable with some solder wick, compared to the Hakko, often wicking up all solder out of a joint in a second or two on touch. Although I already enjoyed working with the FX-888, the Metcal really makes soldering a pleasure as it's so much faster.

I did actually lift two pads with it, which rarely happened to me before. Not sure why yet - I measured my STTC-137 tip at 370C, just a bit higher than the 350C I usually use on the Hakko. Could be the specific board I was soldering, I'll see if it happens to me more often.

From the online pictures of the MX-H1-AV I thought it looked to be really long, which I was slightly concerned about. However when it showed up it turns out it's actually a bit shorter than the FX-888 handset (and thinner), and a shorter hand-to-tip distance as well, which indeed is nice. For the workstand, so far I actually prefer the FX-888's: I think it's slightly easier to reinsert the iron, I like the (grey) sponge better, and the rubber with the brass wool is handy as well. Overall I think it looks a bit better than the bulky Metcal stand.

And yeah, the MX500 hums, even when it's off, as the switch is on the secondary side of the transformer. That's a bit annoying. The 5000/5200 (and perhaps the newer 500?) don't have that issue I think.

So far, really happy with it. :-)

[GreyWoolfe]

Marber, enjoy, I love my MX-500P and Hakko FX-951.  I have 90.6 GBP invested w/o tips but I also have the Talon tweezers.  Hopefully, in the not too distant future, I am planning to do a side by side comparison between the 2 just for fun.

[Bassman59]

Another happy Metcal user here. I first ran into them at some point at the job right after college (i graduated in 1988). The guys doing the RF assembly had a couple SP200 units. They were significantly better than the standard Weller things. I finally ponied up for my own SP200 in 1998 and I've had it ever since. I'm all lead free so I have four different 700-degree tips and it all works great.

At the day job, in the engineering area it's all Metcal. The assembly techs have MX500s or whatever the newer version is called. We have SP200s and the OKI replacements on several benches. As the Wellers in the production area die they get replaced with Metcals, too.

I went to the local electronics supply shop not long ago and saw that the nearby bomb factory had excessed a bunch of Metcal kit. I put out the word and within an hour I had enough friends who wanted the stuff so I went back and bought it all.

[GreyWoolfe]

Bassman59, I have to ask, how much?

[onesixright]

Thank you all for the many replies.

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on the MX-5210. However, today i noticed that mouser.com and digikey.com both removed the Metcal units from their stores. Well at-least digi-key did, mouser is somewhat vague.

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/soldering-desoldering-rework-products/soldering-desoldering-rework-stations/1310841?k=metcal%20mx
they write "call", i talked to them and they said its not longer available, when asking for a reason they had not clue. (they did offer a clone, but thats the 40 watts version).

http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Metcal/MX-5210/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZbG%2fSKwfOjGaDHbVC2ZILjb9xdFNuGYY%3d
Due to government regulations, Mouser is unable to sell this product in your country.  (from europe, and even when selecting the us site with us ip).

Anybody has a clue whats going on? I thought Metcal is (was?) a respectable company, but this is curious (I'mean why are their products pulled?).

Another point that came a cross, was that Metcal tips where more expensive.  But comparing the JBC and Metcal tips it seems, that snot true (any more) ? Maybe a dated arguement?

[john_p_wi]

Maybe try a place like this?

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/metcal/hand-soldering-systems/systems/dual-port-simultaneous-systems/mx-5200-series/mx5200-soldering-rework-system-mx5210.htm

[GreyWoolfe]

And don't forget your EEVblog discount code.

[onesixright]

Thanks! but im in Europe.  Not sure if they ship free, but with import tax, it will be higher then buying it directly from okinternagtional.com (and their is warranty, vat, ...). 

OKI has a nice offer for the 5210 (with 3 tips) for 538 EUR.

https://europe.okinternational.com/europe-web-store/english/globalnavigation/Europe-Webstore-Product-Detail?productId=cd34458f-17cc-40a0-b0fc-9a59d1c32966

Unfortunately OKI/Metcal is incredible slow with their email replies  (kind of same as the speed of their website  )...

Well if they make me wait any longer i go for JBC :-) TME has a 20% discount for the Dutch for the coming days...

Anyway my concern is not where to buy it (you can buy directly), but why big distributers kick the Metcal products out of their stores, they know something we don't? Thats not a good sign.... is it?

[john_p_wi]

Can't really give any insight to Digikey, I do see that Mouser has 2) 5210 in stock with more on order.  I am sure that the VAT and shipping complicates things, something that we are not bothered with here in USA.

I will say that you will be rewarded with performance IF you have patience and pursue the Metcal 5210.

[onesixright]

Hi John,

Thanks. Good to hear it shows up on mouser.  Of course I can wait a few days, i really like the technology, all the positive reactions here made me want to pull the trigger!

But to be-honest I dont get it, how can a company survive like this? Lag in response, website slow and buggy. Not one of their distributors in Europe are selling the newer 52xx, the other 1/2 doesn't even offer online ordering   

Patience is a virtue? 

[0xdeadbeef]

I bought one piece of my MFR equipment here, they also have the  MX-5210 in stock:
http://smartec.de/shop/de/loet-entloettechnik/oki-metcal-loettechnik/oki-loet-entloetstationen
Very friendly people. Prices are without VAT though.

[onesixright]

Thanks  0xdeadbeef, i wrote them a email.

[reagle]

Using  Thermaltronics EB-2000S  stations at work and in my home lab. Basically a cheaper version of Metcal, but they work pretty well and tips are easy to get.
Digikey carries them as EasyBraid brand for under $200

[gmit77]

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 
Would you like to test? Just contact me on PM
link to FX-100 http://tinyurl.com/o5ztksd
link to soldering tips T31 http://tinyurl.com/q8x3mkq

[Monkeh]

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 

As opposed to the high quality and ergonomic handling of the RM3E and the logevity of the full range of Metcal tips?

Hakko are good at the marketing blurb, but Metcal had been making these for decades before Hakko got in on it.

But hey, if you're offering freebies to test..

[gmit77]

yes we will select soon some freebies to tes  is that cool?
I'm sure this will become popular in Europe soon, stay tuned!
for the test we will post here the "how to apply" soon
thanks Monkeh!

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 

As opposed to the high quality and ergonomic handling of the RM3E and the logevity of the full range of Metcal tips?

Hakko are good at the marketing blurb, but Metcal had been making these for decades before Hakko got in on it.

But hey, if you're offering freebies to test..

[Monkeh]

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

[gmit77]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

[Monkeh]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

That is.. quite reasonable.

[zapta]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

This will be a good combination with the DIY Metcal power supply in the other thread.

BTW, the Hakko inductive tips don't fit in a Metcal MX 500 handle. Very different dimensions.

[Monkeh]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

The tips are attractively priced, at least. Do you have a price on the handpiece?

This will be a good combination with the DIY Metcal power supply in the other thread.

Or with the mass of cheaply available Metcal power supplies in the US. The original ones are fairly easily available for $30-50. If the Hakko handpiece and stand can be had for similar prices in the US, then it's almost a no-brainer, if they perform.

[gmit77]

The T31 must be inserted into the FX-1001 then connected to Metcal.

[Monkeh]

The T31 must be inserted into the FX-1001 then connected to Metcal.

Yes, we get that.

[marber]

Are you aware you can connect the HAKKO FX-100 iron to the Metcal station? Then you can enjoy the high quality and ergonomic handling of the FX-1001 and the longevity of the T31 soldering tip 

Nice! That does sound pretty optimal. Wish I had known two weeks ago.

[Smokey]

We recently had an EZBraid rep drop by and show us their stuff.  They claimed that Metcal let their patents lapse or something and anyone can make compatible tips and such now and that's what they started doing.  They said their Metcal compatible tips are cheaper and last longer.  We got a set of sample tips and have been using them in our Metcal base stations.  They have been going strong for like 4 months now.  I can't tell the difference, and they were a little cheaper.

http://www.easybraidco.com/hand-soldering-c-3-l-en.html

[wkb]

We recently had an EZBraid rep drop by and show us their stuff.  They claimed that Metcal let their patents lapse or something and anyone can make compatible tips and such now and that's what they started doing.  They said their Metcal compatible tips are cheaper and last longer.  We got a set of sample tips and have been using them in our Metcal base stations.  They have been going strong for like 4 months now.  I can't tell the difference, and they were a little cheaper.

http://www.easybraidco.com/hand-soldering-c-3-l-en.html

Well patents don't remain valid forever (thank goodness for that) so it wasn't a case of Metcal lapsing something.

Not used EZbraid myself but I can say the Thermaltronics serve me well in my MX500 (hobbyist use btw)

[onesixright]

Hey guys,

// little update

First let me thank you all for weighing in. I finally decided to go for the Metcal MX5201. I placed the order (EU) with smartTec (thanks  0xdeadbeef).

The machine is just in, and i can honestly say, not disappointed at all! A delight to work with!  

And @john_p_wi, you where right, it was worth the wait!

[marber]

FX-1001 only Euro 37 + VAT
FX-1001 + iron holder Euro 74 + VAT

Or with the mass of cheaply available Metcal power supplies in the US. The original ones are fairly easily available for $30-50. If the Hakko handpiece and stand can be had for similar prices in the US, then it's almost a no-brainer, if they perform.

I'm considering doing just that right now.

Does anyone know whether the matching stand to the Hakko FX-1001 also has magnets to reduce the idling temperature, like the Metcal WS1 auto sleep stand?

[zapta]

Does anyone know whether the matching stand to the Hakko FX-1001 also has magnets to reduce the idling temperature, like the Metcal WS1 auto sleep stand?

If you don't get an answer you can try asking here http://kb.hakkousa.com/KnowledgebaseArticle10637.aspx

[amc184]

I've used Metcal irons often for quite some time (both MX500 and MX5000), but I finally just bought my own.  I got a new Thermaltronics SHP-1 (same as a Metcal RM3-E), a couple of new Metcal STSS tips and a used Metcal RFG-30 for about USD120.  It doesn't have a sleep mode, and only drives one iron, but it solders just as well as any other Metcal I've used, making it a great budget option.

If you don't get an answer you can try asking here http://kb.hakkousa.com/KnowledgebaseArticle10637.aspx

That's be a good alternative.  I'm a little bit surprised that Hakko so definitively declared them compatible.

[zapta]

That's be a good alternative.  I'm a little bit surprised that Hakko so definitively declared them compatible.

Note that the hakko tips themselves are not compatible.

[timofonic]

Can anyone do a 1:1 scientifical test of classical high end soldering irons VS curie point soldering irons of old and new generations?

It could be very interesting!

[marber]

I've used Metcal irons often for quite some time (both MX500 and MX5000), but I finally just bought my own.  I got a new Thermaltronics SHP-1 (same as a Metcal RM3-E), a couple of new Metcal STSS tips and a used Metcal RFG-30 for about USD120.  It doesn't have a sleep mode, and only drives one iron, but it solders just as well as any other Metcal I've used, making it a great budget option.

So Thermaltronics SHP-1's stand also doesn't sleep then? Or are you using it without or with a different stand?

If you don't get an answer you can try asking here http://kb.hakkousa.com/KnowledgebaseArticle10637.aspx

That's be a good alternative.  I'm a little bit surprised that Hakko so definitively declared them compatible.

Yeah, indeed. Pretty nice. And I like the (Hakko FX-888 like) stand a bit better than Metcal's anyway.

[GreyWoolfe]

Can anyone do a 1:1 scientifical test of classical high end soldering irons VS curie point soldering irons of old and new generations?

It could be very interesting!

Nanofrog and I are planning just such a thing after the holidays.  He has a Weller (forgot which model and too lazy to read back emails) and I have a Hakko FX-951 and a Metcal MX-500.  After we do it, we will compile information and will post results and methodology.

[FireFlower]

Would this help?

[amc184]

So Thermaltronics SHP-1's stand also doesn't sleep then? Or are you using it without or with a different stand?

I'm using an older Metcal stand, probably contemporary to the RFG-30.  It's not flash, but it's cast metal and fits the iron very well, so I like it.  No sleep magnet fitted.

[GreyWoolfe]

Just as a point of information, the Thermaltronics SHP-1 is not a stand but a replacement wand for the Metcal MX-RM3E.  The SHH-1 is the sleep stand and should work fine with the MX-500P.  As amc184 noted, the Metcal RFG-30 doesn't have sleep mode but the MX-500P does.  I was fortunate on eBay and scored NOS RM3E and sleep stand for $130 USD.  By the way, if someone is looking for an RM3E here is someone selling new at $85 USD plus $7.09 shipping.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/METCAL-MX-RM3E-SOLDER-HANDPIECE-FOR-MX-500-NEW-flr-cab-1-/221893602195?hash=item33a9e3ab93:g:V8wAAOSwyQtVqsrp

[timofonic]

USA...Nothing for us unlucky Europeans...

I know our name is related to rapping, but please don't take it too literal

[dkjer]

Does anyone know if the Tweezer Hand-Pieces are interchangeable between Metcal and Thermaltronics?  Could I, for example, use the MX-PTZ on a TMT-9000S?  How about MX-TALON?

[marber]

Does anyone know if the Tweezer Hand-Pieces are interchangeable between Metcal and Thermaltronics?  Could I, for example, use the MX-PTZ on a TMT-9000S?  How about MX-TALON?

I'm pretty sure they are. Cloning Metcal products and being fully compatible appears to be their business model.

[Floyo]

I'm almost certain the handpieces and powersupplies are all fully compatible, the only thing I'm not sure about is if the tips for the Thermaltronics MTZ also fit the Metcal MX-PTZ and vice versa.
Thermaltronics does not specifically list them as compatible in their cross-reference as far as I can see.
It would be nice if someone could clear this up, the Thermaltronics tips are quite a bit more affordable, and I need some new ones for the tweezers.

[dkjer]

I'm also curious about the TT MTZ Series compatibility with Metcal PTTC Cartridges.  I didn't see any cross references showing that these are compatible, however I did see this:

http://www.thermaltronics.com.au/index.php/soldering-systems/62-soldering-stations/194-tmt-9000ts-2

At the bottom is mentions "For a list of Tweezer Tips, follow this link" and links to PTTC cartridges:

http://www.thermaltronics.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=226

It doesn't mention SHP-MTZ Tweezer Handpiece specifically though, just mentions "Surface Mount Tweezers with Stand".

Very confusing 

[dkjer]

Interesting, here is a list of the MTZ Series datasheets: http://www.thermaltronics.com/tz-kit-1.php .  For example, http://www.thermaltronics.com/datasheet/M60TZ003 .  They *do* mention "For Use With:   TMT-9000S-1, TMT-9000S-2, MX-500, MX-5000, MX-5200".  So perhaps they are compatible?  Or perhaps they mean compatible with the TMT-9000S *if* you are using a Metcal MX-PTZ?

[Floyo]

Or perhaps they mean compatible with the TMT-9000S *if* you are using a Metcal MX-PTZ?

That was my interpretation, as in, the base station is capable of outputting a signal that the tweezers can work with.
I will email the distributer I got my other Thermaltronics tips from, see if they know more about it.

[Floyo]

Ok, I heard back from my supplier, and they say that the Thermaltronics MTZ tips are *NOT* compatible with the Metcal MX-PTZ handpiece. Which is a shame since the original Metcal tips are twice the cost
I guess there is still some patent or something in place preventing them from making fully interchangeable tips, its weird that a company whose business model is totally based on compatibility at lower cost would miss out on having all products compatible if at all possible.

[dkjer]

Good info, thanks Floyo!

I just snagged a new EB-9000S on eBay ($100, got lucky!) and I'm trying to decide whether to get the Metcal or the Thermaltronics/EB tweezer kit.  Sounds like going with the Thermaltronics will be cheaper in the long run, though I can't find any comparison / reviews on quality differences.

Does anyone have experience with the difference between Metcal vs TT tweezers?

[dkjer]

Figured I would throw a random data point on the EasyBraid EB-9000S.  It worked quite well for a day with general soldering.  Up until I switched ports.

After switching to the second port with the SHP-MTZ tweezers (which worked fine), I switched back to the first port.  No heating up, and the display just read "Load 00".  After turning off/on to reset, it still wouldn't heat up, and started periodically displaying 'Error (22)'.

At this point I noticed smoke coming out of the unit, and a terrible burnt electronics smell filling the room.

I'm hoping they will be easy to deal with for the warranty, but I'm pretty frustrated that I only got a day of use out of it before burning out.

[timofonic]

Figured I would throw a random data point on the EasyBraid EB-9000S.  It worked quite well for a day with general soldering.  Up until I switched ports.

After switching to the second port with the SHP-MTZ tweezers (which worked fine), I switched back to the first port.  No heating up, and the display just read "Load 00".  After turning off/on to reset, it still wouldn't heat up, and started periodically displaying 'Error (22)'.

At this point I noticed smoke coming out of the unit, and a terrible burnt electronics smell filling the room.

I'm hoping they will be easy to deal with for the warranty, but I'm pretty frustrated that I only got a day of use out of it before burning out.

Uhh...


Easy...Broken?

[marber]

Or with the mass of cheaply available Metcal power supplies in the US. The original ones are fairly easily available for $30-50. If the Hakko handpiece and stand can be had for similar prices in the US, then it's almost a no-brainer, if they perform.

I'm considering doing just that right now.

Does anyone know whether the matching stand to the Hakko FX-1001 also has magnets to reduce the idling temperature, like the Metcal WS1 auto sleep stand?

I bought a new Hakko FX-1001 iron + stand to combine with a used MX-500 this month, and just gave it away as a Christmas present. First report is that it works very very well indeed. It's a winning combination if one can find a used MX-500 for cheap.

(and no, the Hakko stand doesn't have the magnets for sleep mode...)

[r342f2f]

where did everyone purchase their tips from?  I see thermaltronics sells the products on amazon and there are some distributors selling them cheaper.  I see on the thermaltronics site that they have interchangeable tips to the metal units.  anyone use the thermaltronics tips on a metal MX500?  I am curious if anyone else has tried before I go and buy.

[GreyWoolfe]

where did everyone purchase their tips from?  I see thermaltronics sells the products on amazon and there are some distributors selling them cheaper.  I see on the thermaltronics site that they have interchangeable tips to the metal units.  anyone use the thermaltronics tips on a metal MX500?  I am curious if anyone else has tried before I go and buy.

I have.  I bought 1 from Denbo32 on eBay and it works fine.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Thermaltronics tips work fine on metcal. Some have slightly better geometry, in particular their version of smtc1147,as it has sharper corners, good for touching up qfns