Micro Pencil for T-12 Clone

[leham]

is there a clone of the micro pencil hand piece?

or will T-30 tips work in a 9501 clone hand piece?

where can I get a cheap FM-2032

the T12/T15 tips are too chunkey for my needs most of the time

[leham]

anyone???
Does anyone have the pinout foe the 2032???

[KL27x]

the T12/T15 tips are too chunkey for my needs most of the time

What tips are you looking at? The 2032 can take a smaller knife tip. Other than that, I don't see much difference, other than there being a much smaller selection.

I bet the pinout is the same as the 2028. Are you going to build your own handpiece?
I figured Hakko's business model was to make a cute little handpiece. Then charge a premium on the tips for the privilege of using this handpiece. Building a your own 2032 clone handpiece so you can buy expensive genuine-only tips. That's a twist I didn't see coming.

[sn4k3]

A problem with micro pencil are the power they deliver, sometimes not good for multi layer boards, even if small passive.
T12-ILS have 0.15mm i don't see a need to go premium micro pencil

[leham]

A problem with micro pencil are the power they deliver, sometimes not good for multi layer boards, even if small passive.
T12-ILS have 0.15mm i don't see a need to go premium micro pencil

I have the T12-ILS and its waaaaayy too big for what I'm soldering.

On a daily basis I'm soldering on 0201 down to 01005 size components





That is a iphone 6s motherboard, the tray next to it is the micro sim tray.

The IC circled in red is a 36 ball micro BGA


Today I tried using a T12-ILS on a 6s+ motherboard to replace an inductor (0201), it barely fit between two other 0201 sized components..




0201 ARE HUGE in my eyes

I do also use hot air HOWEVER..
1: it is not always practical, say I need to run a jumper under that 36 pin BGA above ^
2: A lot of other components around what I'm working on can't be reflowed, either due to underfill OR they will just melt (plastic FPC's)
 

[leham]

the T12/T15 tips are too chunkey for my needs most of the time

What tips are you looking at? The 2032 can take a smaller knife tip. Other than that, I don't see much difference, other than there being a much smaller selection.

I bet the pinout is the same as the 2028. Are you going to build your own handpiece?
I figured Hakko's business model was to make a cute little handpiece. Then charge a premium on the tips for the privilege of using this handpiece. Building a your own 2032 clone handpiece so you can buy expensive genuine-only tips. That's a twist I didn't see coming.

Basically I'd use most of the micro tips they offer, daily I use the T12 J tip and ILS for running jumpers and replacing passives.
I use the T12-J for wicking a lot too (small BGA's and stuff )

[KL27x]

By extrapolating from my previous experience, mostly with larger SMD and larger tips, I would suggest you try the T12/15 BCF1.

It looks massive perhaps. But I use even the gigantic 3mm version of this tip with no issue, messing around with SMD caps and resistors down to 0402 even in proportionally tight layouts. I have all the BCF tips for the T12. 1, 2, and 3mm. And I have all of the CF versions for the 888, which go 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3. (And 4mm, if you include the 900M version).

The 1mm versions are cut at closer to 60 degree slant, rather than 45ish of the larger ones. This allows it to slip between the little passives in the picture you posted. It is big enough you should be able to reflow both pads of an 0201 at the same time for removal of a part, if that is necesssary, without using hot air. Again, I'm extrapolating from using a much larger tip for much larger components. In fact, I hardly ever use one of these tips smaller than 2.5mm. This is huge compared to the 1mm tip. It looks like a bull in a china shop, but it's remarkably light on its feet.

I use the 1mm for tacking jumpers, mostly. It is small enough to do this on pretty much the smallest of pitch IC's. It is bulkier than a pointed tip, but it makes it up for the fact you can load it with solder and it's directional, since the face is the only part that is tinned.  Briefly touching kynar or enamel wires with the back or higher up on the shaft won't leave solder blobs on the insulation. If you're quick and light, you won't melt the insulation. And you won't reflow the adjoining fly wire, because the heat transfer is so low/slow devoid of a solder bead/bridge. And prefluxing the board is all that you need to do to get the right amount of solder on the joint.

In my mind, I see why you want the tiny hook to get into tight spots. I think the 1mm bevel tip will do the solderwicking of tiny BGA's, too. The width is probably similar to what the baby hook will be on its side. I have all the bent tips and I find they are not particularly efficient at heat transfer compared to bevels. In fact, I have never found a single occasion to use a BR, other than playing with it. There is nowhere I have found any of them to be specifically useful or even generally handy.

The baby knife tips look the most interesting/useful to me, personally. The nice thing about the knife is that you can get it on both pads of a passive without any solder blob on there, at all, for removal of the part. Mostly this only matter for batch/production rework, though. You can remove a ton of SMD passives without having to wipe off and retin the tip, using the knife.

Even if this doesn't do the trick for you, I would suggest you try it, for the pittance it costs. These TFO bevel tips are a game changer. They are also the best drag soldering tips made, IMO.

I bet they do a heck a lot more cell phone repair in China than here, and if these J30 tips were much better, I think they would be cloned by now.

[leham]

By extrapolating from my previous experience, mostly with larger SMD and larger tips, I would suggest you try the T12/15 BCF1.

It looks massive perhaps. But I use even the gigantic 3mm version of this tip with no issue, messing around with SMD caps and resistors down to 0402 even in proportionally tight layouts. I have all the BCF tips for the T12. 1, 2, and 3mm. And I have all of the CF versions for the 888, which go 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3. (And 4mm, if you include the 900M version).

The 1mm versions are cut at closer to 60 degree slant, rather than 45ish of the larger ones. This allows it to slip between the little passives in the picture you posted. It is big enough you should be able to reflow both pads of an 0201 at the same time for removal of a part, if that is necesssary, without using hot air. Again, I'm extrapolating from using a much larger tip for much larger components. In fact, I hardly ever use one of these tips smaller than 2.5mm. This is huge compared to the 1mm tip. It looks like a bull in a china shop, but it's remarkably light on its feet.

I use the 1mm for tacking jumpers, mostly. It is small enough to do this on pretty much the smallest of pitch IC's. It is bulkier than a pointed tip, but it makes it up for the fact you can load it with solder and it's directional, since the face is the only part that is tinned.  Briefly touching kynar or enamel wires with the back or higher up on the shaft won't leave solder blobs on the insulation. If you're quick and light, you won't melt the insulation. And you won't reflow the adjoining fly wire, because the heat transfer is so low/slow devoid of a solder bead/bridge. And prefluxing the board is all that you need to do to get the right amount of solder on the joint.

In my mind, I see why you want the tiny hook to get into tight spots. I think the 1mm bevel tip will do the solderwicking of tiny BGA's, too. The width is probably similar to what the baby hook will be on its side. I have all the bent tips and I find they are not particularly efficient at heat transfer compared to bevels. In fact, I have never found a single occasion to use a BR, other than playing with it. There is nowhere I have found any of them to be specifically useful or even generally handy.

The baby knife tips look the most interesting/useful to me, personally. The nice thing about the knife is that you can get it on both pads of a passive without any solder blob on there, at all, for removal of the part. Mostly this only matter for batch/production rework, though. You can remove a ton of SMD passives without having to wipe off and retin the tip, using the knife.

Even if this doesn't do the trick for you, I would suggest you try it, for the pittance it costs. These TFO bevel tips are a game changer. They are also the best drag soldering tips made, IMO.

I bet they do a heck a lot more cell phone repair in China than here, and if these J30 tips were much better, I think they would be cloned by now.

True about the J30 tips, most cell phone repair videos from china and even some techs I talk too (from china) all use the 888 type irons

Thanks for the heads up in the BCF1 tip, I just figured the JS02 had the finest tip  haha
I ordered a clone BCF1 to see if the shape is right for me, if so I'll order a genuine one (seeing as genuine hakko is 5.88 times the price  )

I'm also considering buying a clone JL02 and grinding it down, don't know how well that would work in the long run.
I've seen these full copper tips (for removing glue and underfill) for the 888 style irons, don't know how well the wet..


Thanks again 

[KL27x]

I like to help! And just maybe I did. You'll find out, I guess.

Thanks for the heads up in the BCF1 tip, I just figured the JS02 had the finest tip

To be clear, any fine pointed tip is gonna be smaller than this. Like I said, this is going to look like a bull in a china ship, the first time you use it. Give it a chance. This bull can dance!

[sn4k3]

How t12-JS02 is finest with  0.2mm? ILS have 0.15mm.

But i can share your pain, my finest tip is 0.3mm and i also repair iphone boards, it's even hard to tin a 01005 pad but as you go finer you will find harder to melt solder, that iphone boards shink a lot of heat.
For iPhone i most use hot air, and the iron is only for tin or wick.

I think we start to need tips with the size of a hair 

[KL27x]

I have the JS02 and the JL and the 888 version is right in the middle. 3 sizes of useless tip.

as you go finer you will find harder to melt solder

You need to jack the temp up, yeah. Rossman has stated his T30 tips cost $50.00 each and they last about a week. I have seen his station locked to 840F, max temp. And if you think about it, he doesn't do much soldering. 99% debugging, 1% soldering.

When you need to use the side of the tip to melt anything, at all, the pointy tip is good for maybe pinning down components while you regrip with the tweezers. And as a pointer.

I think we start to need tips with the size of a hair

Need a finer pointer, then?