Mini Blog: IMDES Vapour Phase Purchase - Jumbo.

[mrpackethead]

26 Aug 2016: well, I was going to build a VP machine, but well, time has run away with me, and i've just had to admit, i'll never get to finish yet another project.
I am not looking for something or massive numbers of throughput, but i do want to get really nice results, and VP has a lot of benefits. This morning i talked with Marc from IMDES in Germany, and he gave me some details about it.. I've decided to go for the Jumbo which will take pcbs up to 430 x 230mm.        The machine is being made to order, and i've paid my deposit.  It should be ready to get shipped out in a month.   This is a little bit of a adventure as these are not super well known but he seems very knowledgable, and sometimes you just have to take a risk...  I'll post to this top message as it progresses! 


3 September:   construction is underway, hes got all his parts. These are not off the shelf machines, but it seems he shoudl be able to deliver well inside of what they promises.    Certainly coudl have used this machien this week, as i had some difficult to solder inductors.

24 September: The unit is finished, and shipping via DHL.     He said a month and its been sent inside that. Thats good.

25 sept.  Gah.  Shipping is by post!!! DHL is the post office in Germany and nice just paid a huge amount for mail.  This really is dissappointing.  They said DHL and it was abut 130Euro..  THat is what i woudl expect to pay for DHL express Courier.  Not general airmail.

30 Sept:  Got a tracking numer but it looks like its still in germany.  Becoming very dis-satisified about this..    Seriusly this was a bad call for them to put this item in the post..  Fully expecting it to arrive smashed and un-usable.

4 October: Its arrived.  The trackign still says its in germany..  Its come in without passign through customs, and me having to pay GST, which is very bizzare, as it worth well in excess of the GST threshold.   

4 October: A bit later on in teh day..   Got it unpacked and setup..       Mmm.   the packing was a bit average for a machien that costs this, you should take a bit more effort...  Forutantly it appears that everything arrived ok, without any issues..  apart from there being no user-manuals.  Marc supplied that quickly.. 

4 October.. A little later.    Have deep fryed my first board in it.    I'm seriously impressed by the end result..      This is good, because to be honest i'm not that impressed with the constrution of this machine..   It kind of feels like this is a 2nd prototype.  Theres things about it that are just "unfinished"..
They certainly have got the process under control, but i kind of feel, "meh", why did they do this!

[tautech]

Subscribed.
After seeing all your posts in the other thread I was sure you'd build one, anyway hope it a doozy.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/vapour-phase-soldering/

[mrpackethead]

Subscribed.
After seeing all your posts in the other thread I was sure you'd build one, anyway hope it a doozy.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/vapour-phase-soldering/

I might still, but i have real world problems that need a real world answer in a short time. that sometimes means, just saying "stop playing and spend some money and buy something made.  one of the real problems with being a "maker" is that we kid oru selves into thinking we should make everything. What we should make is things that other people dont.

[wraper]

I have IMDES mini. Well, it does the job. But it's construction is just some kind of weird DIY     with wiring being exposed.
Also had weirdest packaging of new device I've seen. Really make you say WOW when receiving your new device. Horribly packed with a ton of newspapers and no padding on the bottom which together with comstruction caused all of legs bent inside. Also first I've done is glued all of the leds with silicone adhesive because hot melt glue was already falling off. All of the labels made form paper printed by inkjet printer and then laminated. Never got to writing a review. Higher res pics: http://imgur.com/a/TgjjX

[wraper]

more pics

[wraper]

BTW case is used instead of GND wire. Considering that lug is not even screwed but attached by crappy rivet which is not very tight, it does not make feel good about it.

[ovnr]

Wow. That's some atrocious construction.

How expensive was it?

[wraper]

How expensive was it?

EUR 700  , for that money it certainly could be built better. But Jumbo costs EUR 2200, seems to be exactly the same construction, just larger, from the pics on the website.

[mrpackethead]

I have IMDES mini. Well, it does the job. But it's construction is just some kind of weird DIY     with wiring being exposed.
Also had weirdest packaging of new device I've seen. Really make you say WOW when receiving your new device. Horribly packed with a ton of newspapers and no padding on the bottom which together with comstruction caused all of legs bent inside. Also first I've done is glued all of the leds with silicone adhesive because hot melt glue was already falling off. All of the labels made form paper printed by inkjet printer and then laminated. Never got to writing a review. Higher res pics: http://imgur.com/a/TgjjX

Did you send it back or try to send it back?    Stuff goes wrong for every vendor from time to time.   The putting it right is what counts in the end.  The people who i talked to who also own one, did'nt report anything like this.

[wraper]

I have IMDES mini. Well, it does the job. But it's construction is just some kind of weird DIY     with wiring being exposed.
Also had weirdest packaging of new device I've seen. Really make you say WOW when receiving your new device. Horribly packed with a ton of newspapers and no padding on the bottom which together with comstruction caused all of legs bent inside. Also first I've done is glued all of the leds with silicone adhesive because hot melt glue was already falling off. All of the labels made form paper printed by inkjet printer and then laminated. Never got to writing a review. Higher res pics: http://imgur.com/a/TgjjX

Did you send it back or try to send it back?    Stuff goes wrong for every vendor from time to time.   The putting it right is what counts in the end.  The people who i talked to who also own one, did'nt report anything like this.

I bent the legs back. As of construction itself, I don't think that it can be fixed unless altering the design itself. No, I didn't bother to return it. I use it, bet certainly have some dubious feelings about it.

[wraper]

If that PSU wasn't mounted uncovered on the back with wires exposed, and there was grill on the bottom to cover all of the wires, I'd call it OK-ish.

[mrpackethead]

I woudl have at least called them to express my dis-satisfaction..   Marc tells me that they are now all covered, so there has been some design changes from your machine.   and hopefully its packed well

[mrpackethead]

Its shipping!

[mrpackethead]

26 Aug 2016: well, I was going to build a VP machine, but well, time has run away with me, and i've just had to admit, i'll never get to finish yet another project.
I am not looking for something or massive numbers of throughput, but i do want to get really nice results, and VP has a lot of benefits. This morning i talked with Marc from IMDES in Germany, and he gave me some details about it.. I've decided to go for the Jumbo which will take pcbs up to 430 x 230mm.        The machine is being made to order, and i've paid my deposit.  It should be ready to get shipped out in a month.   This is a little bit of a adventure as these are not super well known but he seems very knowledgable, and sometimes you just have to take a risk...  I'll post to this top message as it progresses! 


3 September:   construction is underway, hes got all his parts. These are not off the shelf machines, but it seems he shoudl be able to deliver well inside of what they promises.    Certainly coudl have used this machien this week, as i had some difficult to solder inductors.

24 September: The unit is finished, and shipping via DHL.     He said a month and its been sent inside that. Thats good.

25 sept.  Gah.  Dhipping is by post!!! DHL is the post office in Germany and nice just paid a huge amount for mail.  This really is dissappointing. 

[Neganur]

DHL is not just the post office in Germany (www.diepost.de vs. www.dhl.de), it is also an express courier. Yes it's part of the greater corporation name but think of it like Agilent was not just TME but also other stuff.

You have to be sure it's sent as express parcel tho, not just the normal parcel. Difference will be the car that delivers it vs. having to pick it up in the post office (for shipments outside Germany at least, inside the same couriers deliver packages from Die Post too)

EDIT:

now after seeing the thread on a comp (pictures hidden on the phone) I must admit that it's very likely those guys use the cheapest dhl parcel they can fit the thing into

[Monkeh]

Let's just rivet some sheets of aluminium together and call it an enclosure.

Yikes.

[mrpackethead]

Let's just rivet some sheets of aluminium together and call it an enclosure.

Yikes.

I am told by some folks who have machines that the newer ones are better.  Fingers crossed. 

[mrpackethead]

Still waiting.. teh tracking doe'snt indicate that its even left germany yet. :-( this has put a real dampner on things.

[tautech]

Still waiting.. teh tracking doe'snt indicate that its even left germany yet. :-( this has put a real dampner on things.

Do check your tracking again as some freighter companies that I deal with will not release for shipment from country of origin until you provide your paperwork and import details. FedEx regularly do this for my stuff from Shenzhen.
Keep a close eye on things several times/day.   

[mrpackethead]

Still waiting.. teh tracking doe'snt indicate that its even left germany yet. :-( this has put a real dampner on things.

Do check your tracking again as some freighter companies that I deal with will not release for shipment from country of origin until you provide your paperwork and import details. FedEx regularly do this for my stuff from Shenzhen.
Keep a close eye on things several times/day.   

I Have multiple imports / exports weekly and I've never experienced that with Fedex.   Your situation may be different.     In this case the issue is that the sender choose to send it via what is effectively just airmail..      The promise was that it woudl be delivered within a week.  As of a couple of minutes ago the unit looked like it was in germany.    DHL express can't help me, its nothing to do with them..    ( they are pretty good normally ).. 

[mrpackethead]

4 October: Its arrived.  The trackign still says its in germany..  Its come in without passign through customs, and me having to pay GST, which is very bizzare, as it worth well in excess of the GST threshold.   

[Monkeh]

4 October: Its arrived.  The trackign still says its in germany..  Its come in without passign through customs, and me having to pay GST, which is very bizzare, as it worth well in excess of the GST threshold.

Or they looked inside and thought better of it.

Oh, you're posting from the future.. Time for DST change #3 of 4 per year..

[Towger]

Does it have a CE mark?

[mrpackethead]

Does it have a CE mark?

No CE Mark.   yes it does have a CE mark. On teh back. I missed it at first.

[mrpackethead]

Photos below.

THe overall construction of this thing is a bit rough.. There are rough edges on some of metal work and its been held togehter with pop rivits and very light gague aluminum right angles..     I'm not that happy with the way the power supply is stuck on the back.. thats pretty dubious and i'm pretty sure won't comply with code.  I'll need to add some extra covers or something before this goes into the workshop, least the OSH guys come and get me..  It did test out safely on teh PAT tester. The wiring on teh microswitch is "meh" as well.    The tray inside is rough. bolts that are hung together with washers as standoffs.   It was warped when i got it so it didtn sit flat.  The electonics appear to be just a off the shelf temp processor controller.. I'll do a tear down in the Style of EEV blog dave when i get a chance.     
As a machine that cost 2000 Euro, i think its built quality is sub-par. Its certainly not what you'd expect out of Germany, and I feel like its more like back street Donggaung.

However.....

So, i grabed a smallish pcb, that has a particulaly difficult component on it, avery large inductor.   That has proved to be difficult to process in the past without burning the board.        Followed the instructions,  and "deepfryed" my board..  12-15 minutes later it was done.     And done exceptionally well.
Im using Henkel GC10 paste.. The joint quality is superb, the board shows no sign of overheating damage and this large inductor is perfectly reflowed.  Theres no flux left of the board, it was super clean.

Little concerned that during the cooking process there was some vapour escaping the tank.. The lid does'nt appear to be a tight seal.  Its actualy a bit curved.  I put some weights on the top of the lid and that solved this.

Very quick summary of intial use,

- This is still a Beta project. It needs finishing. its got the legs of being awesome, and its a few little and easy things that need sorting out.
- the process works exceptionally well.
- the process is actually a LOT simpler that many would like you to belive. and if you wanted to make your own, you certainly could.  The new wave of toaster ovens?