Author Topic: OT: New video camera for the blog  (Read 35234 times)

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Offline DoDaMaffs

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #100 on: July 29, 2014, 12:59:40 pm »
From my bag 25 fps @ 50hz PAL 30 fps @ 60hz NTSC

When mains powered devices are used.

You may get flouro flicker at higher fps.

Pete
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2014, 01:36:02 pm »
Modern florescent lighting uses electronic ballast, rather than magnetic, so the 50/60hz flicker is no more on new fixtures.  It's more like 30,000Hz anymore, old setups notwithstanding, of course.

I'm glad I got new fixtures, though.  LOTS brighter, AND less electricity usage... win/win.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #102 on: July 29, 2014, 01:54:44 pm »
Modern florescent lighting uses electronic ballast, rather than magnetic, so the 50/60hz flicker is no more on new fixtures.

Yes, not a problem for my lab, just thinking of other locations.
 

Offline bktemp

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #103 on: July 29, 2014, 01:59:05 pm »
Modern florescent lighting uses electronic ballast, rather than magnetic, so the 50/60hz flicker is no more on new fixtures.  It's more like 30,000Hz anymore, old setups notwithstanding, of course.

I'm glad I got new fixtures, though.  LOTS brighter, AND less electricity usage... win/win.

And a strong 30kHz signal interfering with low level measurements. Even the LED panels Dave is using show up on measurements regularly.
I have banned all florescent electronic ballasts arround my working bench. Constant current driven LEDs are much less nosy (both electrical and optical).
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 02:05:00 pm by bktemp »
 

Offline DoDaMaffs

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #104 on: July 29, 2014, 02:42:55 pm »
The " flouro flicker " term I used is a phenomenon not only
assosiated with flourescent illumination, but also may be
experienced with other lighting fixtures.

I'm doing the maths.
One on the roof, one on the balcony (seinfeld),
and a high res  ir over the dumpster.

Pete

An thank you to Wilfred, got my first laugh,
gunna stuff it and mount it.
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #105 on: July 29, 2014, 03:23:42 pm »
So if you are considering a monitor, how about a monitor recorder?

Like this:



In case you have not watched any "Film Riot" it's entertaining / funny and educational when it comes to film. The quality of the show is amazing (professional) when you consider it's done in the guys home most of the time. Highly recommended.
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #106 on: July 29, 2014, 04:35:58 pm »
Modern florescent lighting uses electronic ballast, rather than magnetic, so the 50/60hz flicker is no more on new fixtures.  It's more like 30,000Hz anymore, old setups notwithstanding, of course.

I'm glad I got new fixtures, though.  LOTS brighter, AND less electricity usage... win/win.

And a strong 30kHz signal interfering with low level measurements. Even the LED panels Dave is using show up on measurements regularly.
I have banned all florescent electronic ballasts arround my working bench. Constant current driven LEDs are much less nosy (both electrical and optical).
Wouldn't it be more effective to use shielding?  EMI can come from places outside your control.
 

Offline RyanAMT

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #107 on: July 29, 2014, 07:06:17 pm »
So, here is a big question, should I move to 30fps/60fps (NTSC) shooting, or stay with the aussie PAL 25fps/50fps shooting?
All my material up until this point has all been shot in 25fps.

The youtube standard seems to be 30fps, and I think youtube actually re-encodes to 30fps if you upload 25fps?
And of course an extra 5/10fps is always better, right?
Any potential issues with 50Hz lighting?
Opinions please...

For the content you make and what you do there isn't any real advantage to going to a 30fps/60fps system.  If you were doing more motion intensive videos then you could switch over for slightly better motion handling with the 5/10 gain in fps.

As for the YouTube encoder converting 50/25 PAL material to 30fps - There was a known error that caused 50p/i material to be wrongfully converted to 30fps since YouTube doesn't handle higher fps natively.  Not sure if that was ever fixed or if YouTube has since allowed 50/60p footage but I doubt it since 50/60 fps footage is overkill for standard web video.  So far YouTube has preserved all of my footage at the original frame rate - I shoot mostly at 24p.

Any opinion on the camera I mentioned last week?
 

Offline bktemp

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #108 on: July 30, 2014, 06:19:29 am »
Wouldn't it be more effective to use shielding?  EMI can come from places outside your control.
Shielding would help, but is not always possible, especially for Dave who has to be able to film everything.
Having a fluorescent tube with an electronic ballast near a scope (~ 50cm) can show a signal in the range of 1V on the screen. Compared to other EMI sources, a nearby electronic ballast produces a really strong signal. The most practical solution is to simply avoid it and go for some (non pwm driven) led lighting.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 06:21:31 am by bktemp »
 

Offline Eliminateur

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #109 on: July 30, 2014, 11:53:12 am »
if YouTube has since allowed 50/60p footage but I doubt it since 50/60 fps footage is overkill for standard web video. 

youtube has started rolling 48fps and 60fps for selected channels already (along with 4K resolution), check out the announcement(along with some other very interesting changes for creators): http://youtubecreator.blogspot.com.es/2014/06/look-ahead-creator-features-coming-to.html
the interesting stuff i see for Dave is:
1) direct fan funding
2) fansourced subtitles
3) creator credits
4) infocards

60fps sample playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbsGxdAPhjv9UrLo19pS8teoRKj7funAy

 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #110 on: July 30, 2014, 12:25:12 pm »
Thanks for the help, in the end I've ordered a new Canon HF G30, I figured better the devil you know.
It has very useful upgrades to my current cam, and is basically zero risk.
 

Offline Eliminateur

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #111 on: July 30, 2014, 12:26:40 pm »
and is basically zero risk.
...apart from the thing deciding not to record anything(again) ;) :D
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #112 on: July 30, 2014, 12:31:35 pm »
Any opinion on the camera I mentioned last week?

The AG-AC90A looks pretty neat, but ultimately the Canon is as good or better for much less cost, albeit slightly less versatile.
And I didn't see a real dB audio meter on it either. But I liked it's ability to delete the last clip. Seems like it has the same last scene preview limitation as the Canon.
The Canon is more compact, has a wider angle, more zoom, WiFi control, cheaper, and is familiar. I can almost buy two Canons for the price of the Panasonic.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 12:40:01 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #113 on: July 30, 2014, 12:33:51 pm »
...apart from the thing deciding not to record anything(again) ;) :D

Well, yeah, there's that!  :scared:
In the end I figured that regardless of which camera, I should be formatting the card in-camera before each shoot (as I currently try to do to), and should be using the backup dual SD card recording option.
So in the end I wasn't really trying to fix the big as such, I simply got duped by the extra functionality of a new model  ;D
But considering that I'll be running a dual camera setup more often with the extra bench, a new cam was a good investment either way.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 12:43:43 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2014, 02:13:33 pm »
Do you think it will have the same firmware issue that caught you out with your current camera? Are you going to have to get used to ensuring the camera is powered off when inserting a card?I'll bet (I haven't read it) the manual will still say to do so.

Yes it does, just like many other cameras do.

Quote
You said earlier in this thread that you were pressing on using the internal memory of your current camera, what is so bad about that? 32GB isn't that enough?

It's got nothing to do with the size, it's the convenience. I can take the SD card out back to the PC at any time and check footage and audio in detail without interrupting my setup. Can't do that with built in memory unless you dick around with big full HD HDMI monitors and headphones on your rig etc.
 

Offline RyanAMT

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #115 on: July 30, 2014, 07:37:44 pm »

The AG-AC90A looks pretty neat, but ultimately the Canon is as good or better for much less cost, albeit slightly less versatile.
And I didn't see a real dB audio meter on it either. But I liked it's ability to delete the last clip. Seems like it has the same last scene preview limitation as the Canon.
The Canon is more compact, has a wider angle, more zoom, WiFi control, cheaper, and is familiar. I can almost buy two Canons for the price of the Panasonic.

I kind of figured it might be a bit overkill.  It has a db meter, although it doesn't display a numeric value just two little lines in the sweet spot of either -20 to -12 for digital or -12 to 0 for analog. 

The last scene preview is something that camera manufacturers never seem to care too much about in regards to making it more useful.  The only camera that I've used where they got it right is our Sony PMW200 - you only have to press the Thumbnail button and you can play any clip on the card or you can press another button to go back to back to the live view all without having to put the camera into an entirely different mode through some sort of a reboot.

Going with what is familiar is almost always the best option with video gear. 
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #116 on: July 31, 2014, 03:25:29 am »
I kind of figured it might be a bit overkill.  It has a db meter, although it doesn't display a numeric value just two little lines in the sweet spot of either -20 to -12 for digital or -12 to 0 for analog. 

What's that "-20 to -12 for digital" about?
I'm always aiming for that "analog" range.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #117 on: July 31, 2014, 05:26:34 am »
OK, got it.
My VU meter is digital then obviously. 0dB is hits clipping. I've got the auto attenuator switched on which allows me to get closer to the 0dB clipping level on the meter without worrying about big transients kicking into clipping. Although it's still possible to clip if you drive it fast enough to beat the auto attenuator.
I usually aim for about -6dB on the meter. My Canon shows a green sweet spot marker at -12dB, but I never operate below for regular work I ensure my audio is at least hitting that point.

BTW, there is no "off" for the Auto Attenuator feature, only a fixed "ON" attenuator.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 05:28:05 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2014, 07:40:22 am »
re: image stabilisation comparison

Trying doing one of your walking rants, or running, or cycling, and see how it performs. That would be interesting.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2014, 11:54:42 am »
re: image stabilisation comparison

For those subscribed to EEVblog2
A short extract from my full review of the HF G30 which I got.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #120 on: August 06, 2014, 11:58:32 am »
BTW, I also got a Sony NEX-VG30 2nd hand dirt cheap, as I already had an e-mount lens for it.
Just got it today but can't say I'm all that impressed at first play. The Canon G30 just seems nicer and more professional to use in many regards.
The G30 is really quite awesome.
Not sure if I'll keep the Sony or resell it, need to play with it a bit more.
No idea about the bug yet, as that was always a rare intermittent thing.
Full G30 review shot and coming soon.

I now have 4 decent blogging cams:
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 12:00:32 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline ResR

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Re: OT: New video camera for the blog
« Reply #121 on: August 09, 2014, 02:13:57 pm »
Hey Dave.
I had a similar problem with my 7 years old Pentax Optio E30 that also didn't write the files properly. Turned out that the fault was a SD card (512Mb - as old as the camera itself, over 7000 pictures-videos)  that was simply getting old. Got new 8Gb card for 5 euros and the camera started to work again. Although the shutter button is starting to fail now. One problem ends with another...
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 02:21:48 pm by ResR »
 


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