Author Topic: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?  (Read 2078 times)

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Offline CopperCone

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2018, 02:16:14 am »
A nice affordable, fairly quiet (be sure to install the muffler provided with it) and small (only 2.5cfm) compressor that I am very happy with is the

https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-JC10-Plus-Oil-Less-Compressor/dp/B0058NRVMO

Only 60dB

I have mine setup on a wire rack shelf (in a garage), so I may easily clean the floor with a garden hose and a mop. It is next to a MIG welder.

It is quiet enough that the vibration of the wire spool in the mig welder on the bobbin is louder then the compressor. The compressor just sounds kinda farty. The compressor has rubber feet but the wire shelf that it is on is fairly shitty so it flexes and vibrates.

I need to put some kind of tensioning in the welder to stop the wires from rattling around.

Perhaps I will put a plank of rubber coated wood under the compressor to see if I can isolate it from the welder (I think the vibration is traveling through very specific elements under the compressor feet, it might stop if its spread to all of them evenly.

Keep in mind the CFM is low, 2.5 is not enough for most tools other then a nailer or very quick uses. Of course if you want you can put a 60 gallon tank connected to it (granted you will probably wear out the little motor unless you obey the duty cycle restrictions) that takes forever to fill but will give you some usability for heavy tools, maybe 2 minutes on some air hog like a carbon arc gouge.

But, I can't stand the other compressors. I had a shitty husky before that sounded like someone was firing a belt fed machine gun 2 inches away from my ear. I hated that fucking thing I would literary wear ear muffs and plug it in with a extension cord and run away indoors when it turned on, come back when it turned off, turned it off, used until the pressure was low, and repeated. You could hear it clearly down the street.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 02:40:09 am by CopperCone »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2018, 02:41:10 am »
A nice affordable, fairly quiet (be sure to install the muffler provided with it) and small (only 2.5cfm) compressor that I am very happy with is the

https://www.amazon.com/Rolair-JC10-Plus-Oil-Less-Compressor/dp/B0058NRVMO

Only 60dB

I have mine setup on a wire rack shelf (in a garage), so I may easily clean the floor with a garden hose and a mop. It is next to a MIG welder.

It is quiet enough that the vibration of the wire spool in the mig welder on the bobbin is louder then the compressor. The compressor just sounds kinda farty. The compressor has rubber feet but the wire shelf that it is on is fairly shitty so it flexes and vibrates.

I need to put some kind of tensioning in the welder to stop the wires from rattling around.

Perhaps I will put a plank of rubber coated wood under the compressor to see if I can isolate it from the welder (I think the vibration is traveling through very specific elements under the compressor feet, it might stop if its spread to all of them evenly.

Odd, that was the other model I was looking at, but decided on the very similar California Air model I mentioned previously. I thought I rejected it, as it didn’t have an aluminum tank, but I see by your link it does, maybe it’s been updated, not sure now why I went with the CAT, but they specs are very similar.
 

Offline CopperCone

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2018, 03:04:15 am »
I think I just read the CAT has an aluminum tank.

I believe the cat came out recently, I don't think it was on the market when I bought my rolair.

The rolair is a bit more expensive, but it does have 0.5 gallons more of capacity.

I want to say, looking at them, that CAT basically copied the rol-air one I have and did some kind of whizzbang high tech cost reduction shit to make a clone that costs 50$ less.

Differences I can see:

Disadvantages of the cheaper CAT brand:
-There is no roll cage. The Rol-air one has a nice protective cage around it (still shit because it should have a enclosure, but at least it is harder to fuck up then the CAT one)
-Not sure what the heat sinking situation is on it (they have some kind of plastic covers where the "heat sinks?" are on the rol-air brand. Might be hiding some kind of manufacturing muntzing (i.e. tiny heat sinks). I don't know why you would need covers there for aluminum heat sinks like the rol-air has.
-The gauges are oriented weird (probably simplified/reduced cost of fittings). If you put it on a shelf like I did it would be hard to see what the pressure readings are. Seems retarded. The rol-air has a proper 'interface panel' where you can read both pressures and turn it off at the same time and adjust the pressure, even if its located in a difficult area. You don't need to crane.
-rol-air uses combination of square stock and round stock for its frame. The CAT one uses all round stock.

Differences in my rol-air and the one on amazon:
-mine uses all round stock
-the feet are the conical type seen on the CAT one. I don't know if this increases or decreases the isolation.

Disadvantages of rol-air
-Tank is welded to the frame. Might make replacement difficult but its aluminum so it should not matter?
-The pull pin, designed to empty the tank, is oriented sideways, rather then in the front (like on the CAT tools one), so it might be more difficult to actuate though I don't know why you would want to, unless its in a really off place or you have a bad back and you can't bend over to flip the purge valve. Very easy to modify to put a direction change pulley there though, if you are a fan of the string operation air purge. I still think you need to do the bottom purge to drain the tank though? You would want to probably modify it so that there is another pull valve on the bottom nipple to make sure you get all the water out of the compressor, on both models, if you intend to use the pull string feature! So I consider it a draw/mutual deficiency.

My opinion?
-I don't regret spending the extra 50 dollars on the rol-air compressor if only because i has a roll-cage thing on it. It makes it easier to put on a shelf and if you are using it as a contracting tool you can drop 2by4's on it and you are way less likely to rip off some kind of high pressure thing welded on the tank that will fly off and kill you. Also if you have it on a shelf and the top shelf over it collapses it wont be damaged.
-Should be 100% enclosure for better protection but rolair cares more about customer safety and ergonomics.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 03:21:27 am by CopperCone »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2018, 03:13:14 am »
I think I just read the CAT has an aluminum tank.

I believe the cat came out recently, I don't think it was on the market when I bought my rolair.

The rolair is a bit more expensive, but it does have 0.5 gallons more of capacity.

I want to say, looking at them, that CAT basically copied the rol-air one I have and did some kind of whizzbang high tech cost reduction shit to make a clone that costs 50$ less.

Differences I can see:

Disadvantages of the cheaper CAT brand:
-There is no roll cage. The Rol-air one has a nice protective cage around it (still shit because it should have a enclosure, but at least it is harder to fuck up then the CAT one)
-Not sure what the heat sinking situation is on it (they have some kind of plastic covers where the "heat sinks?" are on the rol-air brand. Might be hiding some kind of manufacturing muntzing (i.e. tiny heat sinks). I don't know why you would need covers there for aluminum heat sinks like the rol-air has.
-The gauges are oriented weird (probably simplified/reduced cost of fittings). If you put it on a shelf like I did it would be hard to see what the pressure readings are. Seems retarded. The rol-air has a proper 'interface panel' where you can read both pressures and turn it off at the same time and adjust the pressure, even if its located in a difficult area. You don't need to crane.
-rol-air uses combination of square stock and round stock for its frame. The CAT one uses all round stock.

Differences in my rol-air and the one on amazon:
-mine uses all round stock
-the feet are the conical type seen on the CAT one. I don't know if this increases or decreases the isolation.

Disadvantages of rol-air
-Tank is welded to the frame. Might make replacement difficult but its aluminum so it should not matter?
-The pull pin, designed to empty the tank, is oriented sideways, rather then in the front (like on the CAT tools one), so it might be more difficult to actuate though I don't know why you would want to, unless its in a really off place or you have a bad back and you can't bend over to flip the purge valve. Very easy to modify to put a direction change pulley there though, if you are a fan of the string operation air purge. I still think you need to do the bottom purge to drain the tank though?

My opinion?
-I don't regret spending the extra 50 dollars on the rol-air compressor if only because i has a roll-cage thing on it. It makes it easier to put on a shelf and if you are using it as a contracting tool you can drop 2by4's on it and you are way less likely to rip off some kind of high pressure thing welded on the tank that will fly off and kill you.
-Should be 100% enclosure for better protection but rolair cares more about customer safety and ergonomics.

Nice comparison! My wording was not great, I wanted an aluminum tank, and I thought I remembered at that time, the main difference was the Rolair was a steel tank. Either they changed the Rolair to aluminum recently, or there was some other reason I went with the CAT. No matter, they are very close, and either is a good choice. Both CAT and Rolair were very helpful with my phone questions. Both seem highly regarded in these type compressors.

EDIT: Just looked it up, the Rolair “PLUS” is a newer model, they went from a steel tank to aluminum as well as some other small improvements. I guess my phone calls made them think about competing with the similar CAT aluminum model! :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 03:23:19 am by MacMeter »
 

Offline CopperCone

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2018, 03:21:35 am »
Other:
The CAT one has a air tank which you can replace, but the connection between the air tank and the frame is really janky. I guess it works but I don't know how much a vibration issue it is and if the tank can loosen. I don't think I would manufacture something for sale which such a mechanical interface:

On the lower left corner:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Q0sTqsfPL._SL1354_.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/712UlpiLmQL._SL1314_.jpg

It looks like some mad max shit, with the bracket bent into shake so it kind mates with the tube... I think proper manufacturing would be to weld a small plate with some holes in it to the square tube

On the lower right:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/718N2LpKVKL._SL1190_.jpg
You can see that the tank is only mounted to the tubing stock by 2 points of crappy contact, that is a bolt and a nut. A bolt is not supposed to act as an anti rotation feature in general, and its definatly not supposed to act as a anti rotation feature on a round tube. If they want to use a detachable compressor it should be on 4 points of contact with parallel carefully welded plates, not 2 points of contact using bolt/shitty bent plate interfaces. Also does not appear to use any kind of anti rotation feature like lug nuts etc.

What can happen here I think is that the tank can loosen and increase noise, and possibly damage the welded connections by stress fatigue, especially the copper tube.


Final Opinion: Pay the extra 50 bucks for the well engineered product, considering its high pressure air. If this is the level of thought they put into designing it, they might also have shitty QC etc.  :palm:

Since you bought it already, I would recommend that you either (not sure whats the best option)
1) weld the tank to the frame (kinda stupid?)
2) replace the nuts with some kind of anti rotation nuts (the ones with the plastic that deforms, forget what their called, or lock wire)
3) put loctite on it (the green kind thats supposed to flow into the bolt/nut interface would be easiest because you don't need to dismantle anything).
4) mod the thing to have a nice removable tank connector thing like  I described, but its alot of work and i Don't know how easy or wise it is to weld something to an aluminum tank.
5) cancel the order and buy the rol air one for 50$ more
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 03:27:03 am by CopperCone »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2018, 03:26:21 am »

Other:
The CAT one has a air tank which you can replace, but the connection between the air tank and the frame is really janky. I guess it works but I don't know how much a vibration issue it is and if the tank can loosen. I don't think I would manufacture something for sale which such a mechanical interface:

On the lower left corner:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Q0sTqsfPL._SL1354_.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/712UlpiLmQL._SL1314_.jpg

It looks like some mad max shit, with the bracket bent into shake so it kind mates with the tube... I think proper manufacturing would be to weld a small plate with some holes in it to the square tube

On the lower right:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/718N2LpKVKL._SL1190_.jpg
You can see that the tank is only mounted to the tubing stock by 2 points of crappy contact, that is a bolt and a nut. A bolt is not supposed to act as an anti rotation feature in general, and its definatly not supposed to act as a anti rotation feature on a round tube. If they want to use a detachable compressor it should be on 4 points of contact with parallel carefully welded plates, not 2 points of contact using bolt/shitty bent plate interfaces. Also does not appear to use any kind of anti rotation feature like lug nuts etc.

What can happen here I think is that the tank can loosen and increase noise, and possibly damage the welded connections by stress fatigue, especially the copper tube.


Final Opinion: Pay the extra 50 bucks for the well engineered product, considering its high pressure air. If this is the level of thought they put into designing it, they might also have shitty QC etc.  :palm:

Agreed, I would have bought the Rolair, but they did not have the newer PLUS model at that time, and the non-plus was a steel tank, NOT aluminum, that was the deal breaker at that time.
 

Offline CopperCone

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2018, 03:31:23 am »
Maybe then just check those bolts on the bottom and get

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/permatex-penetrating-grade-threadlocker-green-2-oz-29000/7160068-p?c3nid=7160068-P&c3ch=PLA&adtype=pla_with_promotion&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv9bLyKaS2wIVQwOGCh3xlQJiEAQYAiABEgLJ2PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

This stuff you can just tighten the bolt if you need to, put the compressor on the side and put a few drops that will flow into the thread and seal it up nicely without having to take it apart, do a coating procedure, risk misalignment etc.

or

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware-Fasteners-Nuts-Lock-Nuts/N-5yc1vZc2ez
I guess you would need to take it apart and risk misalignment

or both (don't know if your supposed to use em together actually). I think by itself the loctite might actually be better at vibration resistance, so long the bolt grade they use was not super awful.

I used the green threadlocker on my crappy home depot BBQ for 90$ or whatever (heats super fast though I will give it that).
 
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Offline CopperCone

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2018, 03:36:04 am »
damnit my rol-air one has a fucking magnetic tank.

Oh well, I keep it purged typically. And it has a easy to remove plug so I can inspect it at least with a boroscope.  :palm: |O

I wonder how reliable those aluminum tanks are though. I think for aluminum pressure storage I would like a extra layer of fiber glass/epoxy resin like a fire fighter SCBA because the aluminum welding process is much more tricky and niche then steel. Then again those scba tanks are much higher pressure. And cost a shit load more. Might be completely paranoid.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 03:38:12 am by CopperCone »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2018, 03:57:17 am »
damnit my rol-air one has a fucking magnetic tank.

Oh well, I keep it purged typically. And it has a easy to remove plug so I can inspect it at least with a boroscope.  :palm: |O

I wonder how reliable those aluminum tanks are though. I think for aluminum pressure storage I would like a extra layer of fiber glass/epoxy resin like a fire fighter SCBA because the aluminum welding process is much more tricky and niche then steel. Then again those scba tanks are much higher pressure. And cost a shit load more. Might be completely paranoid.

I guess you do not have the newer “PLUS” model. The research I did on aluminum tanks in this size made me comfortable in buying it. Since my main reason for this was to blow CLEAN air, I didn’t want the potential for rust. I also bought a small inline filter as well, connected to the hose.
 

Offline CopperCone

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2018, 04:30:01 am »
This is also probably very decent, but the CFM is low

http://toolguyd.com/hitachi-ultra-quiet-1-gallon-air-compressor-ec28m/

Other then the low power it looks kinda well engineered (still no god damn roll cage, maybe thats why their called rol-air)..

Why can't you just add the fucking 2 feet of tubing? jesus h chirst what the fuck. How much are they saving if their mass producing that shit and selling it in every fucking home depot in the country.

Plus dust gets all over that shit.

I need to use my milwakee m18 blower thing to clean the god damn compressor when I do something near it.

Almost:
http://toolguyd.com/dewalt-air-compressor-dwfp55130/

But no, you still gotta skip 2 welds and 2 feet of tubing.  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD


Finally something, as it should be:

http://toolguyd.com/rolair-airstak-air-compressor-in-systainer-tool-box/

Easy to clean and robustish.  :-+
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 04:36:59 am by CopperCone »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2018, 04:38:50 am »
This is also probably very decent, but the CFM is low

http://toolguyd.com/hitachi-ultra-quiet-1-gallon-air-compressor-ec28m/

Other then the low power it looks kinda well engineered (still no god damn roll cage, maybe thats why their called rol-air)..

Why can't you just add the fucking 2 feet of tubing? jesus h chirst what the fuck. How much are they saving if their mass producing that shit and selling it in every fucking home depot in the country.

Might be fine to blow air, but not only low .8 CFM, that 1 gallon tank is very small. Might be fine for some, but even just blowing air, my tank can empty quickly, mine is just able to pump up my bikes 125psi race tires, I doubt the Hatchi could. Seems too limited to me.

California Air Tools 2010A SPECS:

Ultra Quiet only 60 Decibels
Oil-Free Pump for Less Maintenance & Costs
2.0 Gallon (Rust Free) Aluminum Tank
Powerful 1.0 HP (Rated / Running) 2.0 HP (Peak) Motor
3.10 CFM at 40 PSI      2.20 CFM at 90 PSI
Ultra Quiet only 60 Decibels
Oil-Free Pump for Less Maintenance & Costs
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2018, 05:00:57 am »
My friend made a quiet compressor out of the compressor from his old refrigerator and a couple of empty propane bottles for the tank. He used a pressure relief switch that lets off the head pressure between the compressor and a check valve for starting since fridge compressors typically cannot start into significant head pressure. It's been in use for about 10 years now and still works fine.
 

Offline eKretz

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Re: Quiet electric compressor, like an aerosol?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2018, 01:21:34 pm »
Same here. I had an old chiller and an old portable air conditioning unit laying around. Stripped them, recovered the refrigerant in an empty freon bottle and dropped it at a local appliance service center. Made a compressor with both in parallel pumping into a 5 gallon tank. Mine is so quiet I can run it in my basement workshop at night while the rest of the house is asleep without waking anyone. The loudest part is the pressure release when the pressure switch shuts the compressor pumps off.
 


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