Author Topic: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?  (Read 12635 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline free_electronTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8515
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
first off : AAARGH L#$%^&#@$%.

Now that is out of the way , does anyone know of good crimping tools for those little loose wire connectors like used by dupont , molex, jst and others ?
And with good crimping tool i mean : something where you don't need 3 hands ( one of turning counterclockwise) , stand on your left foot , tongue at the right angle , three glasses on and then still hold the wire with your right foot trying to squeeze the crimping tool.

Those pins drive me nuts. Everytime it is a fumble to cut the pin off the strip , get it in the tool , strip the wire end , twist that, put that in , pick up the pin again , put it in , now drop the wire , have one strand stick out , drop the pin again ... aaaargh . then crimp and find out you crunched half the contact as the pin slipped.... you'd think the handtools would have a nice cradle that can grip the pin and keep it at the right distance ...  something lie a replaceable cartridge that has a single male pin at the right offset. you push the female on the male pin : now it can't fall out anymore and it is set at the right distance. hold wire in. crimp .pull on wire to remove freshly crimped contact.. repeat.

out of pure misery i solder the wires in first , then cut the pins off the strip , then crimp the ends so they fit in the connector body.  but that defeats the purpose of a crimped contact.

are there any reasonably priced ( up to 100$ ) tools that accept the pins on strip where you just put in the wire and squeeze. i can buy the pins on strip just like they are fed in the production machines.

dealing with the loose pins is just a frigging nightmare ( especially the 1.27mm and 2mm JST ones .. )
i have to do a few hundred ( 400 to 500 ) pins and outsourcing is not the goal. i want an in-garage solution ...

anyone ? anyone ? bueller ?

« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 04:30:26 pm by free_electron »
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 26751
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 05:40:59 pm »
I'd get an intern to do those jobs. Using loose contacts is better because taking the pins from a strip is more tedious. Also don't twist the strands before crimping and only strip a short piece of the insulation.

I have a TNI-U TU-190-08 ratchet crimper from Ebay and it works well for JST XH and Molex KK254 contacts. This has separate sections for the insulation and conductor areas of the contact / wire. By closing the crimper a little you can clamp the contact in place and insert the wire without the contact falling out of the crimper.

For production I strongly prefer to buy pre-crimped wires though. You can buy these pre-made for many brands and I'm sure you can get specific lengths from sellers on Ebay and Aliexpress if you ask. If you spend the time you waste by crimping the wires yourself by flipping burgers at McDonalds you make money and get the wires crimped!
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 05:49:04 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline GreggD

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: us
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 05:58:20 pm »
I have the TNI-U TU-190-08 crimper. Best to put one handle in a bench top vice it holds things steady. I got it to crimp JST PH contacts. It almost works, comes close but a complete fail. Does not crimp enough and the wire falls out. 
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 26751
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 06:12:24 pm »
I have the TNI-U TU-190-08 crimper. Best to put one handle in a bench top vice it holds things steady. I got it to crimp JST PH contacts. It almost works, comes close but a complete fail. Does not crimp enough and the wire falls out.
You have to realise that every contact needs it's own specific crimper. There isn't such a thing as a universal crimper. The crimper you have works OK for the contacts I mentioned in the post above but the official crimpers will give nicer result.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline GreggD

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 136
  • Country: us
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 06:38:26 pm »
The real hand crimper, which I have used but did not own is just a little expensive.
TOOL HAND CRIMPER 28-32AWG SIDE, at Digikey Unit Price $1,057.68 455-1236-ND
And is also hard to use.
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6459
  • Country: nl
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 07:12:44 pm »
are there any reasonably priced ( up to 100$ ) tools that accept the pins on strip where you just put in the wire and squeeze. i can buy the pins on strip just like they are fed in the production machines.
The one and only answer is: no.

Even second hand on Ebay the original tool with rust which only fits a single connector runs over $300
The chinese versions for $30 are crap.

The best are the japanese Pioneer but they need two better three hands  :)

What you need is an automatic wire stripper, cutter and crimping tool for one specific connector you will have to pay a couple of thousand $.
Some chinese factories have them but you don't want to outsource, so no solution.
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8515
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 07:17:11 pm »
I'd get an intern to do those jobs.

Hobby project . I'M THE INTERN ... GRMBL.

These are cable harnesses. I string the wires first then terminate them. lengths  i don't know (yet) . whatever is needed ( this is a large 3D printer : build volume half a meter by half a meter by half a meter ... ) all wiring runs in 2020 tubing channels or cable chains (moving wires) so i can't have connectors on them while running the wire ... bare terminals works though. i use high current ribbon cable ( not loose wires ) for the stepper and the control signals.

i am amazed nobody has come up with a low cost universal crimper.
Crimping handle with insertable 'cartridge'.

The cartridge has the crimping 'die' and a pin of the connector. The find 'folds out (hinge) . Simply plug the terminal on the pin. fold inwards. The terminal now rests in the crimping cavity.
Since the terminal is plugged on a pin it can't fall out and it sits at the right offset in the die. (no more crushed terminals , or malpositioned terminals)

The cartridge also has a stripper that cuts the end of the wire at the appropriate length. ( stripper with cable endstop)

so : put in some wire : strip
fold out pin , put terminal on pin , fold in. put wire in hold : crimp.

anyone with some mechanical aptitude could make that easily. the stripper can use standard stripping blades that can be set using a screw ( or they could be in a plastic block : pull out and throw when spent. )
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8515
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2017, 07:37:32 pm »
10 minutes in solidworks ...
the part where the pin is would be hinged so you can fold it out for easy insertion.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 07:39:41 pm by free_electron »
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6459
  • Country: nl
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 07:45:31 pm »
The crimping die is the difficult part.
The chinese die looks very much like the japanese die, the japanese is cleaner/sharper, the chinese is garbage the japanese ok. Good luck.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13694
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 08:06:33 pm »
The problem is there are a lot of differences between pin types.
The better manufacturer tools (e.g. JST) hold the pin by the non-crimped end, so it's held in place while keeping the crimp area clear. All these ends are different, so it would be impractical to make a decent tool for even a subset. 
e.g. https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/jst-sales-america-inc/WC-110/455-1136-ND/527372

These are way, way better than all the generic tools, and if you're doing a significant number of crimps, worth the money.
I'm surprised we're not seeing knock-offs at least for the common types like JST XH and PH etc.

It might be viable to 3D print a short-life holder to fix onto a generic tool
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
The following users thanked this post: free_electron

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6459
  • Country: nl
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 09:08:49 pm »
And I am surprised that these manufacturers not sell the crimptools for a more decent / hobbieist price. Their business is to sell as many connectors as possible, offering cheaper crimptools will help that purpose.
In the earlier days there were generic ratchet tools with insert dies for each type of connector. Still are for the more common red/blue/yellow shoeconnectors used in cars, a good one with three dies costs <$100
If the dies would be say $30 a piece and the ratchet toolholder around $100 I would be buying a set.
Esp. The Dupont connectors are a pita.
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8515
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 09:46:45 pm »
The problem is there are a lot of differences between pin types.
The better manufacturer tools (e.g. JST) hold the pin by the non-crimped end, so it's held in place while keeping the crimp area clear. All these ends are different, so it would be impractical to make a decent tool for even a subset. 
e.g. https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/jst-sales-america-inc/WC-110/455-1136-ND/527372

These are way, way better than all the generic tools, and if you're doing a significant number of crimps, worth the money.
I'm surprised we're not seeing knock-offs at least for the common types like JST XH and PH etc.

It might be viable to 3D print a short-life holder to fix onto a generic tool

That is what i am looking for. it holds the bloody damn pin ( which none of the other tools do, and which is the mayor pain in the ass. ) and it also has an endstop to block you from inserting the wire too deep.

If they would only make this with exchangeable cartridges it woudl be palatable. let's say 150$ for the handpiece and 50$ a pop for the dies.
i am using 3 different JST connectors and would need 3 different tools. 1000$ + is NOT palatable ...
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13694
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 09:58:54 pm »
And I am surprised that these manufacturers not sell the crimptools for a more decent / hobbieist price. Their business is to sell as many connectors as possible, offering cheaper crimptools will help that purpose.
They don't care about hobbyists, or anyone that's not prepared to pay a few hundred $ for a hand tool, or a grand for dies for an auto crimper.
They do care that their product is reliable, so cheaping out on the tool makes no sense, as it could harm the reputation of their connectors.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
The following users thanked this post: Kjelt

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6459
  • Country: nl
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 10:05:29 pm »
Yes you are right.
There are about four major players that keep on making new connectors and new tools it is a nightmare  |O
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9810
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 10:42:16 pm »
They don't care about hobbyists, or anyone that's not prepared to pay a few hundred $ for a hand tool, or a grand for dies for an auto crimper.
They do care that their product is reliable, so cheaping out on the tool makes no sense, as it could harm the reputation of their connectors.
I find it rather hard to believe that proper crimping tools really do have to cost this much money. It seems a matter of milking it for what it's worth.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13694
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 10:47:17 pm »
They don't care about hobbyists, or anyone that's not prepared to pay a few hundred $ for a hand tool, or a grand for dies for an auto crimper.
They do care that their product is reliable, so cheaping out on the tool makes no sense, as it could harm the reputation of their connectors.
I find it rather hard to believe that proper crimping tools really do have to cost this much money. It seems a matter of milking it for what it's worth.
They probably don't, but manufacturers have minimal incentive to offer cheaper tools, and wouldn't want to take any risks. I wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturers sub out their crimpers  to a tool specialist.

Another angle is that of tolerance - there will be tolerance issues on both the contact and the tool, the combination of which must be controlled to ensure an in-spec crimp. It makes more sense to make the tool tolerance as tight as possible, to allow for a wider  tolerance, and hence lower cost, on the contact.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 26751
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2017, 11:10:31 pm »
i am using 3 different JST connectors and would need 3 different tools. 1000$ + is NOT palatable ...
So it is very worthwhile to standarise on 1 type of crimp connector family.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13694
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2017, 12:04:42 am »
Another option - You can buy ready-terminated cables ridiculously cheap on Aliexpress
Also, there's Dirty Cables :
 http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2017/06/22/dirty-cables-cheap-custom-cables-available-now/
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6459
  • Country: nl
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2017, 08:45:59 am »
Be carefull though , my experience on Ebay is that 90% of the used wire in these cables are magnetic, eg contain iron instead of copper, besides the lower conductivity i now have to care about brittle and possible rust in my connections. The used connectors are also shiny chrome and under suspicion of not being authentic  :palm:
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9810
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2017, 09:47:06 am »
Be carefull though , my experience on Ebay is that 90% of the used wire in these cables are magnetic, eg contain iron instead of copper, besides the lower conductivity i now have to care about brittle and possible rust in my connections. The used connectors are also shiny chrome and under suspicion of not being authentic  :palm:
Or they use aluminium. Not a lot of fun.
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8515
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2017, 04:01:38 pm »
And I am surprised that these manufacturers not sell the crimptools for a more decent / hobbieist price. Their business is to sell as many connectors as possible, offering cheaper crimptools will help that purpose.
They don't care about hobbyists, or anyone that's not prepared to pay a few hundred $ for a hand tool, or a grand for dies for an auto crimper.
They do care that their product is reliable, so cheaping out on the tool makes no sense, as it could harm the reputation of their connectors.

there must be a knock-off market for an intermediate priced one...
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13694
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2017, 05:53:30 pm »
And I am surprised that these manufacturers not sell the crimptools for a more decent / hobbieist price. Their business is to sell as many connectors as possible, offering cheaper crimptools will help that purpose.
They don't care about hobbyists, or anyone that's not prepared to pay a few hundred $ for a hand tool, or a grand for dies for an auto crimper.
They do care that their product is reliable, so cheaping out on the tool makes no sense, as it could harm the reputation of their connectors.

there must be a knock-off market for an intermediate priced one...
Probably, but as labour is cheap in China they just make do with the simple generic ones which take longer to use
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline mariush

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4982
  • Country: ro
  • .
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2017, 06:06:50 pm »
I have an Engineer PA-20 but may not be what you want : https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-PA-20-Universal-Terminal-Crimping/dp/B002AVVO7U

It's a 2 step crimping tool, you insert the pin in the tool and the wire, crimp, then repeat the process with the part that crimps on the insulation , potentially using another die size.  So it's slow and boring process and you'll make some mistakes (let's say 1-2 f*ckups every 30-50 crimps)

400 wires is an afternoon job, maybe 3-5 hours of work. Not worth spending hundreds of dollars on a tool and dies.

It's fairly easy once you get the routing.. have the wires pre-cut, twist the strands at the end of the wires a bit, place the pin on the tool , squeeze tool a bit to lock pin in place, insert wire, squeeze hard. pull out pin and slide it in the other die to crimp the insulation, squeeze hard. 2 hand job, 15-30s per crimp.

 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 06:09:37 pm by mariush »
 
The following users thanked this post: jneudorf

Offline Christopher

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 429
  • Country: gb
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2017, 06:47:42 pm »
the engineer PAD set is very good, you need to buy the extra jaws though. not ratcheted, but after a few fails you get the right crimp pressure quickly.

two-pass process, worked very well for Molex KK and some JST connectors. easier to use than the actual molex kk crimp tool if i'm honest...!!!

well worth it for a few quid


http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pad11_13e.html
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8515
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2017, 07:14:58 pm »
hell no. two step... i am looking for 1 step with zero defects ...
these pins are very small ( 1mm connectors )

and it is not an afternoon work... i have to string all the wires in the machine , figure out how much slack i need , take em back out , trim them , crimp pins, take em back in.
the goal is to make a wire harness that can be produced repeatedly. so there is a lot of work.

anyway. i was looking for a simple solution for these pins. for now i think i will simply use precrimped wire ends and solder them to the existing wires. i can solder wires faster than i can muck with those stupid little pins that are 3 by 1 mm.
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf