SmallSMT - Discussion Thread.

[Smallsmt]

In Bielefeld near Hannover

[elgonzo]

In Bielefeld near Hannover

People, don't get fooled! Bielefeld does not exist. 

[Ice-Tea]

In Bielefeld near Hannover

That'd not too bad! Could go to Cebit one day and say Hello! I'll keep that in mind.

[Smallsmt]

In Bielefeld near Hannover

People, don't get fooled! Bielefeld does not exist. 

  old joke

[thommo]

Hi Michael - I'm confused why you insist this is an example of the machine placing 0402 passives.

The footprint clearly says '0603' and they 'fit' that footprint correctly.

Beside that, the PnP component list describes the components as being 0603 also.


Many of us would be really interested in purchasing a machine like this, but our biggest concern is support - both pre & post sales.
These and other videos are really helpful, but there is very little benefit in posting 'demo' videos like the ones on your website, where the menu and the voice over is all in Chinese.

Are you going to invest in English version of these videos, or do we need to continue to guess what is being said and told to us in the demos?

Finally, I'm still wanting to know WHERE the TAPE goes to AFTER it enters the SLOT.
Does it just curl up inside the body of the machine?
If it feeds out of the machine once it has gone through the slot, then where does this exit occur?

Actually, another question - you have said in several posts now that the machine's software is 'open' via APIs.
Where can we view a list of the controls and commands available via this interface?

I see the software application is written in Visual Studio, so it would be a tremendous benefit if critical parts of the app were accessible - even if via APIs.

Here is a 0402 placement video using vision alignment more than 100 pcs placement!

The machine shows all new improvements like West and East tapes are moving now through the machine body.
We have add nozzle changer to all HP machines for free now!


https://youtu.be/_loKdD-Pgrs

[Smallsmt]

Dear Andrew,

- You've told us that your a chinese company,  and your sales office is in China, but when i asked to see the machine, you told me i would have to come to germany.  Sorry thats just odd. 
I clearly tell all customers, and in our meeting I told you too, we are a chinese company having German support!

- You originally told us that you do the software development, but recently said that the Chinese partner does it?
I am responsible for the machine software development!
You know the work of a team manager?

- We are still waiting for the video of the UI that you promised ages ago.
I don't like to show our Software in a public video, because many people only like to copy our functions and workflow.
We spend a lot of time to develop this system and interested customers can review it in a web meeting.

Best Regards
Michael

[Smallsmt]

Hi Michael - I'm confused why you insist this is an example of the machine placing 0402 passives.

The footprint clearly says '0603' and they 'fit' that footprint correctly.

Beside that, the PnP component list describes the components as being 0603 also.

You can hear clearly the machine only use the push feeder every second part.
Our pneumatic push feeder advance the tape by 4mm so it's clearly a 0402 placement on a 0603 decal!

Many of us would be really interested in purchasing a machine like this, but our biggest concern is support - both pre & post sales.
These and other videos are really helpful, but there is very little benefit in posting 'demo' videos like the ones on your website, where the menu and the voice over is all in Chinese.
Are you going to invest in English version of these videos, or do we need to continue to guess what is being said and told to us in the demos?

We use a different way to support our customer!
1. Web meeting before buy to explain all functions and show hardware and software working!
2. Our customer receive manuals!
3. Every customer receive support by using email or web meeting.

Please compare to our competitors!

Finally, I'm still wanting to know WHERE the TAPE goes to AFTER it enters the SLOT.
Does it just curl up inside the body of the machine?
If it feeds out of the machine once it has gone through the slot, then where does this exit occur?

The tape moves through a tunnel under the machine. We use this for West and East feeder configurations. You need a special table plate to support.

Actually, another question - you have said in several posts now that the machine's software is 'open' via APIs.
Where can we view a list of the controls and commands available via this interface?
I see the software application is written in Visual Studio, so it would be a tremendous benefit if critical parts of the app were accessible - even if via APIs.

I asked for developers to build a software supporting hardware abstraction layers and open API to support different pnp machines.
And I like to support this development.

[Smallsmt]

I can do the UI video's next week I am after one week non working very busy to finish all jobs!

We normally use a web meeting for demonstration.

Best regards
Michael

^^^^ Seems not

I changed my decision!

[Smallsmt]

Good luck Micheal, I don't think the SmallSMT solution will match our requirements. Your machine seems great, but your business model presents too much risk to me. 

Thank you Andrew but you're the first one after 26 machines sold in the past 4 months telling me my support or business model takes too much risk.

All other Chinese supplier supply support like us?
What do you think if you buy a machine like Ichan he bought without risks?
Do you think there are more informations on any other Chinese PNP manufacturer website available than on SMALLSMT?

This is our mission and that's not only a sentence on a website!
We do not only supply a good machine, but we provide THE BEST SERVICE for a long time.

Best regards
Michael

[sparkswillfly]

- You've told us that your a chinese company,  and your sales office is in China, but when i asked to see the machine, you told me i would have to come to germany.  Sorry thats just odd.

Doesn't sound that odd.  I'm sure you could get eyes on the machine in China but there would not be anyone to give you a useful English presentation of the features. There is probably only one person in the world that can do that and he's in Germany. And just because they know how to build it doesn't mean they know how to use it.  I guess it requires a slightly open mind but desktop PNP is a bit of a frontier.

[sparkswillfly]

I'm in the market for a desktop pnp, but not motivated enough to coordinate a web meeting demo across continents.  Would really like to see a video of a full run on a complex board (real functional design) that can show all capabilities of the machine.  It might push me over the edge. 

[Smallsmt]

Nice guys!

I am building my prototype boards and standard PCB up to 150 in a row using our machines.
This discussion is totally useless.

I share a production run video today!

[Royce]

Doesn't sound that odd. 

I agree. It seems clear he is a Chinese expat living in Germany working remotely with a Chinese company. Expat status is common enough that people have grown tired of saying the whole word "expatriate" and now say only "expat". Remote working and branch offices are also very common arrangements. These aspects don't warrant suspicion.

That's not to say due diligence isn't warranted. "How many people in your company speak English?" is a fair question. At the same time, however, you are looking at a Chinese company for cost reasons. Such issues are to be expected.

[Hufi]

Hello to all,

I´m new in this forum and I have read a lot of posts in the last week concerning PnP machines because I´m looking for a reliable and cheap PnP machine.

First I was impressed by the Neoden 4 (looks really great) but then I´ve seen SmallSMT. Please find my comments after reading all your Posts:

Concerning the support:
I have sent an email inquiry to Michael last Wednesday morning. Four hours later he called me back and proposed a webmeeting. He spent nearly 3 full hours to explain the software and the machine itself – without any cost!
On Friday (public holiday) we had another telephone call concerning trays and some other technical issues. Also perfect support!
And when you read all the comments and answers it seems that Michael is really very busy and patient. What do you expect? No other company will answer all the questions in such a short time. I really appreciate this!

Concerning the risk:
The whole life is full of risks  . When you buy a cheap machine where only a few people are familiar with you have a risk – right. But if you need full support and no dependency on only one person you have to buy a 50.000+USD machine from a big company. People are expensive – engineers are expensive. You cannot have all for nothing.

Just my 5 cents!

We (my company) will buy a fully equipped VP-2800HP with table and all available accessories mid of next week. Why? Because I trust in the machine and in Michael even if there is a risk when he lost his enjoyment or stops his activities. But I get a really cheap machine with obviously perfect function and perfect service. When I cannot accept this “risk” I have to buy a 50.000+ machine. Then I am on the safe side - very simple  .

I´m very curious about the machine and may be there is an exchange of experiences within this thread (also with other users).

Btw.: We have been working about 8 years with a German manufactured Fritsch PnP machine. The SmallSMT hits the older machine in all properties and cost only 15% of the Fritsch unit  .

Kind regards
Robert

[Ichan]

I share a production run video today!

That would be very nice, i eagerly waiting for that. We all do, i believe... 

-ichan

[Smallsmt]

Here is a first working video for my old VP-2500D belt machine I use for demonstration and prototyping jobs.

https://youtu.be/BOXoaGBBK-A

I can't do VP-2X00HP videos now because waiting for my new machine.

Unmodified after placement


After reflow!

[Smallsmt]

Michael my experience is that many companys put a massive effort into presales, but as soon as the money is collected, its a whole different story.

Andrew I think it's enough I really don't know what's your problem but you definitely don't need my machine so stop writing these useless things!

[Smallsmt]

I think you know only Chinese company's having an export license have such a number.
We use a forwarding agent in Hong Kong to export our machines this is a common business.

We are trying to receive an export license but this takes time ask Ian from Dangerous Prototypes how easy this is?

[thommo]

Hi Michael,

I'm not taking sides here, but it seems that some points have been raised which, if SmallSMT were my company, I'd consider it a priority to respond to.

What is, and over time has become, perfectly clear, is that there are many contradictions in what is being said (including by yourself - not just in communication with 'others'), which only serve to make things perfectly unclear.

If you have good answers, or even mediocre ones, then, simply providing them to the satisfaction of those with interest, should solve these issues and calm everything down again.

I must say that I am totally confused about your business model, what you 'actually' do, whether any of the Yushengtech IP is actually yours, and what formal relationship you do, or don't, have with this company - compared for example with the other seller of this machine on Taobao.

I'm not sure 'who' said it, but there's a well tested argument in sales that goes something along the lines of 'The Customer is Always Right'. You may not agree, but it's a proposition that's worth pondering on for a little while at least.

[Smallsmt]

'The Customer is Always Right' sure

[thommo]

Hmmm?

Michael, I'm not sure if you made that comment with scant disregard (in which case I suggest a career outside of sales altogether), or

if it is truly your credo and accepted position - in which case I'll look forward to proper, considered responses to the, now, many questions that remain currently unanswered.

Many thanks

'The Customer is Always Right' sure

[Smallsmt]

I really dislike this kind of conversation. I am sure i do my best to support my customers. I never said anything bad about you so why do you do this?
I operate my business for more than 30 years but this is the first time I am speachless. No need to say i stop wasting my time responding to your postings. Nobody need to buy my machines so why do you say it's SCAM.
Best regards
Michael

[thommo]

Hey Michael,

At the risk of this sounding like 'fatherly advice', I think you should re-read the comment MrP made.

He offered 3 potential scenarios. 'Scam' was one of those, and it was the last one.
Perhaps the 'first scenario' has more to do with what's happening than the other 3.

But if I were you, right now I'd stop reacting, pause for a day or so, and begin responding.

This 'attack' and 'retreat' approach is doing nothing towards building your business. I can tell you are passionate about what you are doing, so it's time IMHO, to get back to business.

Take your time, go over the threads, and 'look' for '?' - then in a thorough manner, address each one.

Best of luck and patience.

I really dislike this kind of conversation. I am sure i do my best to support my customers. I never said anything bad about you so why do you do this?
I operate my business for more than 30 years but this is the first time I am speachless. No need to say i stop wasting my time responding to your postings. Nobody need to buy my machines so why do you say it's SCAM.
Best regards
Michael

[Royce]

MrP, your Taobao link leads to a Yushengtech listing.

Why do you assert Yushengtech is ripping off the design? He's already stated he works with Yushengtech. Right here in this thread:

YUSHENG + SMALLSMT working together we are responsible for development and oversea sales.
HOT HOT SMT is the Chinese company of XIAO JUAN WU (Sunny)
Sunny + me operate SMALLSMT

We are the general sales agent for all Yusheng machines sold outside of China so Yushengtech sells in China and we do no support or give warranty for machines bought in China!

[Ichan]

Here is a first working video for my old VP-2500D belt machine I use for demonstration and prototyping jobs.

Thanks for the video, i always like to see this kind of machine works.

I do not understand how the cover peeling work, why the plastic tape cover "inflated" all together before the feeding action?

Can't see it clearly, seems the camera angle is too low.

-ichan