SmallSMT - Discussion Thread.

[Smallsmt]

Hi Thommo,

I didn't work on VP oven in the past two weeks.

But now we speed up the development for the VP oven.
Some sample parts arrived for the automatic elevator.

Best regards
Michael

[thommo]

Thanks for the update MICHAEL. Glad you've recovered now and back at it again.

It doesn't sound like you have an actual Industrial Design for the oven yet though. Are you just making it up as you go along?

I'd have thought if you had a design already, that getting some specific details would have been possible - and some renders too.

Let's know pls.  Thnx

I don't know how long we can wait ... without knowing what we're waiting for.

[Smallsmt]

@Thommo I want to finish the design in the next 4 weeks.

This is the DSP controller for the oven

[thommo]

Michael,

I don't think I can wait for this unfortunately.

On the 7th March you said construction will be finished in 4 weeks - so in about 2 weeks' time. At that point you already knew about having to take time out for personal reasons I think.

Now you are saying that the 'design' should be finished in 4 weeks - from today so around 20th April, and then construction.

It doesn't appear very well planned unfortunately.

@Thommo I want to finish the design in the next 4 weeks.

This is the DSP controller for the oven

[Smallsmt]

Sometimes more important things happen!
I went to hospital this changed my normal schedule

[thommo]

Hmmm - yes, I understand that'll change things but, I thought you had already considered this into your timing when you wrote :

"@thommo
The construction will be finished in the next 4 weeks.
I post a preview this week before I go to hospital.
I get the gallbladder removed next week."

Sometimes more important things happen!
I went to hospital this changed my normal schedule

[Smallsmt]

@Thommo Do you need the elevator inside the vapor phase oven?

[thommo]

Yes Michael, that's how you described the oven I believe.

But really, aside from this one thing, I have no other information or specs about it.
Lifting boards in molten state without this would be too unreliable based on my research.

@Thommo Do you need the elevator inside the vapor phase oven?

[Smallsmt]

I use a ball screw spindle and stepper drive too for the elevator.

This is my pcb holder design:

[thommo]

Looks good, but a fair way still to go I think.
What are the intended max PCB dimensions?

Expensive parts to fabricate Michael - you may want to consider using standard, readily available Stainless Steel mesh/grid seated into a rebate in the top plate, and secured with 6 bolts from underneath [where they are all hidden]. One piece and one machining process!

I use a ball screw spindle and stepper drive too for the elevator.

This is my pcb holder design:

[thommo]

Agree - like this small batch reflow from EuroCircuits
http://www.eurocircuits.com/ec-equipment-ec-reflow-mate

and their Pre-Heater table
http://www.eurocircuits.com/ec-equipment-ec-pre-heater

that design is not going to work well for double sided boards.  The cross rails you've got in the there will mean you can't have the boards lying down flat. 

You need to have some adjustable rails or moveable standoffs, to make this work.   Look at how some of the Stencil printers arrange this.

[thommo]

Take a look at the EuroCircuits 'reflow mate PCB holder' for their oven - this is what I was referring to [also]

My intial thoughts where to use the rails like in the preheater, but that does restrict you to having to have boards with straight egdes.. that maybe or maybe not an issue.

Agree - like this small batch reflow from EuroCircuits
http://www.eurocircuits.com/ec-equipment-ec-reflow-mate

and their Pre-Heater table
http://www.eurocircuits.com/ec-equipment-ec-pre-heater

that design is not going to work well for double sided boards.  The cross rails you've got in the there will mean you can't have the boards lying down flat. 

You need to have some adjustable rails or moveable standoffs, to make this work.   Look at how some of the Stencil printers arrange this.

[Smallsmt]

Hi,
I used a well tested design because we had a problem on our first test run using the condense it vp oven from mark.
The sheet metal was bend after heat applied and many parts jumped from the PCB.
I rethink about a punched metal sheet inside the holder frame.

[Smallsmt]

Here is a 0402 placement video using vision alignment more than 100 pcs placement!

The machine shows all new improvements like West and East tapes are moving now through the machine body.
We have add nozzle changer to all HP machines for free now!


https://youtu.be/_loKdD-Pgrs

[mikeselectricstuff]

Seems to spending a long tome at the camera.
And WTF is with the blue LEDs on top of the head ?

[thommo]

Hi Michael,

Congrats on the new machine. Like MrP said, it's quiet by comparison. Would be great if you were able to replace that solenoid in the peeler with something quieter too.

The video says 0402, but the footprint silk screen description say 0603. It looks like they are 0603s - is that correct?

Any reason that only a single head is used in the demo?
Can you load both heads from the same feeder, and image them, then place them before returning to the feeders?

Is the idea of 2 cameras to enable different fields of view? What is the largest single component you can image and load? We would like to load modules also if it were possible.

Like MrP asked, what are the plans for the tape peeler to stop fatigue and eventually breakage with seldom used components?

Have you considered rearranging the LEDs in the bottom cameras into linear rather than circular design to unify the light better and reduce reflections?

How do I modify the feeder formats/tape sizes? For instance, if I need to add say 2 more 16mm feeders and an extra 12mm feeder for a job.

Here is a 0402 placement video using vision alignment more than 100 pcs placement!

The machine shows all new improvements like West and East tapes are moving now through the machine body.
We have add nozzle changer to all HP machines for free now!

[Smallsmt]

Seems to spending a long tome at the camera.
And WTF is with the blue LEDs on top of the head ?

The machine did offset and angle alignment for 0402 chip!
This take some time but if you use and I7 instead of the used I3 it will be much faster 

[Smallsmt]

Hi Michael,

Congrats on the new machine. Like MrP said, it's quiet by comparison. Would be great if you were able to replace that solenoid in the peeler with something quieter too.

The video says 0402, but the footprint silk screen description say 0603. It looks like they are 0603s - is that correct?

Any reason that only a single head is used in the demo?
Can you load both heads from the same feeder, and image them, then place them before returning to the feeders?

Is the idea of 2 cameras to enable different fields of view? What is the largest single component you can image and load? We would like to load modules also if it were possible.

Like MrP asked, what are the plans for the tape peeler to stop fatigue and eventually breakage with seldom used components?

Have you considered rearranging the LEDs in the bottom cameras into linear rather than circular design to unify the light better and reduce reflections?

How do I modify the feeder formats/tape sizes? For instance, if I need to add say 2 more 16mm feeders and an extra 12mm feeder for a job.

Here is a 0402 placement video using vision alignment more than 100 pcs placement!

The machine shows all new improvements like West and East tapes are moving now through the machine body.
We have add nozzle changer to all HP machines for free now!

The machine was placing 0402 on a 0603 footprint!
This video was a function check for a customer machine so we didn't use the double head mode.
I thought it could be interesting to show the machine is reliable accessing and placing the small components.

Our vision system needs no even light so we don't improve this.

We have no plans to improve the clear tape winder it will increase the machine price again!

If you need a different feeder configuration you need to buy a different feeder block but it's possible to change.

[Smallsmt]

 

The warning on the front needs a grammar check.

" Keep in a safe distance " ...    ??

Any suggestion for a correct message?

[Smallsmt]

Thank you!

[Smallsmt]

The cover tape of unused line can break after some thousand access cycles.
One option is to sort the parts on different feeder sides depending on usage.
Another way is to take out the cover tape if line is unused.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Seems to spending a long tome at the camera.
And WTF is with the blue LEDs on top of the head ?

The machine did offset and angle alignment for 0402 chip!

Why does that make a difference? - it should go the the camera, wait just long enough for it to stop moving, grab a frame, then immediately start moving towards the placement position while doing the recognition and calculating the correction ready for when it arrives. 
If it's doing any recognition before moving that's just slowing things down unnecessarily.

[Smallsmt]

Seems to spending a long tome at the camera.
And WTF is with the blue LEDs on top of the head ?

The machine did offset and angle alignment for 0402 chip!

Why does that make a difference? - it should go the the camera, wait just long enough for it to stop moving, grab a frame, then immediately start moving towards the placement position while doing the recognition and calculating the correction ready for when it arrives. 
If it's doing any recognition before moving that's just slowing things down unnecessarily.

The complete alignment will be finished over the bottom camera and it's done in steps.
First step is offset correction next steps for angle correction.
We need to compensate all errors using the bottom camera.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Seems to spending a long tome at the camera.
And WTF is with the blue LEDs on top of the head ?

The machine did offset and angle alignment for 0402 chip!

Why does that make a difference? - it should go the the camera, wait just long enough for it to stop moving, grab a frame, then immediately start moving towards the placement position while doing the recognition and calculating the correction ready for when it arrives. 
If it's doing any recognition before moving that's just slowing things down unnecessarily.

The complete alignment will be finished over the bottom camera and it's done in steps.
First step is offset correction next steps for angle correction.
We need to compensate all errors using the bottom camera.

By "step" do you mean it takes more than one image ?
If so that's somewhat inefficient and unnecessary - why would you do it that way?
All you need is one image, from which you can measure all the offsets ( and do it while moving off).

[thommo]

Hi Michael,

To confirm [I think I understand it] we need to buy a new feeder block, containing a predefined set or configuration of tape widths. So if we needed for a particular job a wider distrubition than in the North station, we'd need to remove East or West stations to do so.

They can't be modified adhoc, or other than in predetermined sets?

Thanks

Hi Michael,

Congrats on the new machine. Like MrP said, it's quiet by comparison. Would be great if you were able to replace that solenoid in the peeler with something quieter too.

The video says 0402, but the footprint silk screen description say 0603. It looks like they are 0603s - is that correct?

Any reason that only a single head is used in the demo?
Can you load both heads from the same feeder, and image them, then place them before returning to the feeders?

Is the idea of 2 cameras to enable different fields of view? What is the largest single component you can image and load? We would like to load modules also if it were possible.

Like MrP asked, what are the plans for the tape peeler to stop fatigue and eventually breakage with seldom used components?

Have you considered rearranging the LEDs in the bottom cameras into linear rather than circular design to unify the light better and reduce reflections?

How do I modify the feeder formats/tape sizes? For instance, if I need to add say 2 more 16mm feeders and an extra 12mm feeder for a job.

Here is a 0402 placement video using vision alignment more than 100 pcs placement!

The machine shows all new improvements like West and East tapes are moving now through the machine body.
We have add nozzle changer to all HP machines for free now!

The machine was placing 0402 on a 0603 footprint!
This video was a function check for a customer machine so we didn't use the double head mode.
I thought it could be interesting to show the machine is reliable accessing and placing the small components.

Our vision system needs no even light so we don't improve this.

We have no plans to improve the clear tape winder it will increase the machine price again!

If you need a different feeder configuration you need to buy a different feeder block but it's possible to change.