Solder Fume Extractors

[W8LV]

I see Dave uses a "Pace" Solder Fume Extractor...
And I see, on the market, two basic types of extractors: The Computer Fan with activated carbon, which is cheap... And the "Hose and Box" types, which are HEPA and Carbon Filtered. And they are EXPENSIVE!

Looking hard, I only find Solder Fume Extractors in these ranges.

I'm going to assume that the HEPA/Carbon types are superior: Fine Particles removal (by HEPA) and toxic gas removal (by carbon). A Gas mask, essentially.

What I don't understand is how they should be so expensive. The cheapest "box and a hose" type I see is the "Hackker" job: Over Six Hundred US Dollars upfront, PLUS about One Hundred Dollars just to replace the filter... And that's just too much! I can buy HEPA/Carbon filters for home air units at Wally World for about ten to fifteen dollars for the home room air units at Wally World, and I've got this feeling that fiberglass pleated paper and charcoal just shouldn't cost a hundred dollars.

Certainly, there MUST be a cheaper box and fan type coming from somewhere, and I'm just missing it along the line. Does anybody know of one? 


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[cdev]

The best fume extractor is the register for the return on a heat recovery ventilator or "HRV".


You'll never have to buy any filters, (just wash them every few months) and it will actually remove the fumes from your work area completely, replacing them with fresh outside air, unlike the fans that just move it around and dilute it and don't really extract anything.

[thm_w]

The best fume extractor is the register for the return on a heat recovery ventilator.

If you don't mind pumping fumes outside, its good yes. There are laws about doing this in certain countries, of course for hobbyist levels it will be fine.

What I don't understand is how they should be so expensive. The cheapest "box and a hose" type I see is the "Hackker" job: Over Six Hundred US Dollars upfront, PLUS about One Hundred Dollars just to replace the filter... And that's just too much! I can buy HEPA/Carbon filters for home air units at Wally World for about ten to fifteen dollars for the home room air units at Wally World, and I've got this feeling that fiberglass pleated paper and charcoal just shouldn't cost a hundred dollars.

Certainly, there MUST be a cheaper box and fan type coming from somewhere, and I'm just missing it along the line. Does anybody know of one? 

Because its a specialist product for an industry. Its also designed to run way more than a typical hobbyist would use it for.
If the walmart filters look similar to you, then use them. They clearly won't be as good but for you it might be fine. May have to adapt some duct work, if you want localized extraction (which is a lot of the cost on the pro units).

I did a school project where one section was measuring soldering fumes if you are curious: https://hackaday.io/project/21912-portable-air-quality-monitor/ (https://cdn.hackaday.io/files/21912937483008/Thomas_Portable_Air_Quality.pdf )
It would be about $100 to purchase your own measuring unit on aliexpress and do your own testing, but then you'd want the expensive unit to compare to.
Metcal box is $500, which is not too crazy.

[cdev]

Fantech (a Canadian company that is part of Kanalflakt which I think is Swedish or Finnish) makes some nice ones that cost a few hundred dollars. For a single room or a workbench area, their smallest unit would be fine. Dont get the kind with enthalpic cores (ERV) get one with an aluminum core. Its not a pollution device, its a way to have year round ventilation without wasting energy. They pay for themselves in energy savings, actually.

I have a feeling that if anybody buys one for a small area and its in a large home they are likely to like it so much they will wish they got a larger one for the whole house.

I have a return right near my upstairs workbench but unfortunately, this time of year the upstairs is too hot to hang out in without AC even with the HRV running full blast. It can get so hot up there I don't want to leave my electronics up there, even though its probably okay.

So, need to install some extra fans up there - But in another month it will be okay. A plus is though that even in midsummer the house usually stays cool enough (outside of the attic) to allow the AC to be on a LOT less. We run it in the winter too. It warms the incoming air with the outgoing air.


All thats involved in using it for soldering is simply siting your returns right next to your bench. Then fumes are sucked right in and exhausted outside.  No filtering necessary. The HRV does have some washable plastic filters, which don't need to be replaced, just rinsed off every month or two.  Also every once in a while I yank the core, bring it out in the back yard and power-wash it.

The core is a cube of aluminum folded in a sort of lanyard fashion. There are two air paths which carry air in sort of an X pattern so that the two air paths are separate but in such close proximity to one another, through this heat sink area, that they allow maximal heat exchange between one another. So, it will exhaust your solder fumes but thats just a tiny part of what it will give you. Really, I cannot see living in much newer housing without it because plastics, melamine, fiberboard, etc, off-gas a lot of fumes and its unhealthy.

[cdev]

Panasonic makes a very small HRV for bathrooms and small homes, that only costs around $200. Basically its like a bathroom fan with two vents, that also warms or cools incoming air with outgoing air.  But the way its designed it may not be as good for exhausting solder air. Because it doesnt allow you to site your returns wherever you want. It builds them into the unit.

------------

This is the brand that I have.. have had for a long time. I basically found it to be a major help to my regaining my health.

>http://www.hvacquick.com/products/residential/HRVs-and-ERVs/Residential-HRV-ERV/Fantech-Residential-Heat-Recovery-Ventilators 


An HRV is not cheap but it will solve the problem totally, forever.

They have a small one that is cheaper, for apartments.

It will improve your health - by ventilating your entire house. It will pay for itself in energy savings.

Also, you'll never have to buy filters.

--------------------

Another option is simply an exhaust fan, but a strong one will depressurize your home and cause backdrafting of combustion appliances as well as pull allergens in through the dustiest parts of your walls. An HRV has none of those problems.

For whole house use I would urge people to consider a real HRV that can do 150 cfm or more. Make sure its easy to clean because otherwise they accumulate dust on their intakes from outdoors.

You can install filters on the intake for an HRV but there is a limit to how high the MERV value can get before it starts to unbalance the HRV.

There is NO need to filter out particles that are about to be exhausted outside.

-----------

In most cases, he activated charcoal is just for show because it wears out almost immediately. They dont use enough of it, also t would have to be kept in an air tight container until use.

Quote from: W8LV on Yesterday at 21:15:23

I see Dave uses a "Pace" Solder Fume Extractor...
And I see, on the market, two basic types of extractors: The Computer Fan with activated carbon, which is cheap... And the "Hose and Box" types, which are HEPA and Carbon Filtered. And they are EXPENSIVE!

Looking hard, I only find Solder Fume Extractors in these ranges.

I'm going to assume that the HEPA/Carbon types are superior: Fine Particles removal (by HEPA) and toxic gas removal (by carbon). A Gas mask, essentially.

What I don't understand is how they should be so expensive. The cheapest "box and a hose" type I see is the "Hackker" job: Over Six Hundred US Dollars upfront, PLUS about One Hundred Dollars just to replace the filter... And that's just too much! I can buy HEPA/Carbon filters for home air units at Wally World for about ten to fifteen dollars for the home room air units at Wally World, and I've got this feeling that fiberglass pleated paper and charcoal just shouldn't cost a hundred dollars.

Certainly, there MUST be a cheaper box and fan type coming from somewhere, and I'm just missing it along the line. Does anybody know of one?

[nidlaX]

I'm actually on the verge of rolling my own extractor with a larged sealed plastic container, carbon + HEPA filter, and centrifugal bath exhaust fan. See any pitfalls with this idea? The goal is to make el-cheap FA430 clone.

[nanofrog]

It would be very easy to modify a Honeywell HHT270WHD using a bit of sheet metal (incl. making, buying, and/or modifying a duct attachment) and some aluminum HVAC tape. Better yet, add some rivets and perhaps some caulking. If you'd rather find one locally, Home Depot carries them.

I mention this unit, as it's filter is rated for 0.3um particle or larger @ 99.97% clearance (what you need), and should be doable for ~$100 including a segmented intake duct (Loc-Line 80813, 2.5" vacuum hose kit*). This price doesn't include shipping or any consumables you need to make it, but that shouldn't be horrible at all.

There's less expensive hose available, such as dryer hose, the stuff used for dust extraction, or shop vacs. But you'd need some way to support it and connect a funnel or similar for an intake nozzle.

* They also offer this stuff in an ESD compliant version, but you'd have to buy the parts separately and make sure they're grounded.

[nidlaX]

That's a neat idea nanofrog. However, I would be concerned about whether the fan design in these units has enough static pressure to pull air through small restrictions. Also, the airflow through some of these units is quite low even on high.

That said, you probably can't do much better than these tabletop units in terms of space efficiency. I'm very interested in picking one up for experimentation.

[cdev]

"activated charcoal" filters are not functional for removing toxic anything after they become overloaded, (fairly soon)-  they would be used up in no time. They are used as prefilters but other materials would likely be better.. i.e. its just for cosmetics.

A HEPA filter functions by filtering the indoor air over and over - of particulates-   

Not toxic gases. If there are toxic gases (as opposed to particulates) neither approach will remove them adequately. OTOH exhaust fans (like in a bathroom) will exhaust the fumes, pulling in makeup air through leaks in the building envelope.. (you should crack a window while using exhaust fans for best results) An HRV is actually two fans, one blowing in and one out, and a heat exchanger. If you site the returns well, and leave the HRV on while soldering, most/all of your fumes will get exhausted immediately whenever you solder. Also fresh air will constantly be brought in.

Sources: Discussions with indoor air experts.

[nanofrog]

That's a neat idea nanofrog. However, I would be concerned about whether the fan design in these units has enough static pressure to pull air through small restrictions. Also, the airflow through some of these units is quite low even on high.

That said, you probably can't do much better than these tabletop units in terms of space efficiency. I'm very interested in picking one up for experimentation.

FWIW, the clearance rate is 55cfm. Ideally, I'd prefer 100cfm but I suspect it's going to be difficult to get it for that price point without completely building something from scratch (i.e. metal or wood box + fan + filters + ducting).

As I'm interested in this myself, I've been looking into it this evening, and found something interesting.

Zavasuction solder fume extractors from www.3dhose.com (warning, site is in Korean and no other language options it seems). They use a 24VDC laptop PSU so only require the correct power cord to get it running.  Some interesting accessories come with it, and there's even 5050 LED lighting built-in the intake.

Type A (available on eBay here for $132 shipped  )



Type B (not sure where to get one yet as I can't read Korean)



Another option would be to get a Quick 6101A1 (sign-up for the email notifications and they'll send you a code for 10% off, so $359.10 shipped). Though I suspect this is out of budget for most (even used ones are running too high, particularly if you need to buy any parts, such as new filters).

As a general rule, don't buy filters with the soldering company's label on them as they're just rebranded. Take measurements and find a suitable supplier. You can get a $100 filter for ~$35 this way last time I checked (it's been awhile).

[nidlaX]

Zavasuction solder fume extractors from www.3dhose.com (warning, site is in Korean and no other language options it seems). They use a 24VDC laptop PSU so only require the correct power cord to get it running.  Some interesting accessories come with it, and there's even 5050 LED lighting built-in the intake.

Neat, although I would still prefer to exhaust the air outside at the end of the day. Time to message them on eBay.

[nanofrog]

Zavasuction solder fume extractors from www.3dhose.com (warning, site is in Korean and no other language options it seems). They use a 24VDC laptop PSU so only require the correct power cord to get it running.  Some interesting accessories come with it, and there's even 5050 LED lighting built-in the intake.

Neat, although I would still prefer to exhaust the air outside at the end of the day. Time to message them on eBay.

I've already done so in regard to whether or not the seller can offer the Type B units and how much if it's possible.

[cdev]

We should all get together to design - ourselves, a heat exchanging, fume exhausting, balanced, fresh air ventilating fume extractor based on the HRV principle. Here. Using widely available parts.

I urge people here to consider this, because over years, various exposures add up. They have a cumulative, negative effect on our health. Fresh air is one of the most important things for your health in the final analysis. 

Exhausting solder smoke at the source and replacing it with an equal amount of fresh air is much better than simply swishing it around vigorously so it can pollute your entire home/workshop/office more evenly.

Also, with energy prices going up, something that helps conserve energy will also save each of us a lot of money.

If you don't want to do that, you should all consider simply buying a decent HEPA air cleaner. (I have a Honeywell brand one that works really well)  The filters cost around $60 and last around six months.

Note that activated charcoal in air cleaners doesnt remove toxic fumes in any meaningful manner because there isnt enough of it. The tiny bit or carbon in prefilters is likely saurated with VOCs from the air in a day or two and stops working. 

When activated charcoal is used to protect people's lives in respirators, there is a specific procedure that must be followed, and the filters are used up and must be replaced after a fairly short period of use. They are combined with HEPA filtration (magenta fllters) when they are used.  HEPA is for particles, not gases. Dust.

Volatile gases that are gaseous at high temperatures will condense out of the air when they cool and may well condense on the HEPA filter if the filter unit is near the source. (rather than inside your lungs.)

So that would be good, assuming its replaced regularly.

Allergies, which develop from constant overexposure, (Which then leads to something best described as Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance.) complicate everything.

Avoidance of exposure is the best prevention.  Nutrition matters too. Quite a bit.

Many toxic chemicals are broken down in the body by glutathione so nutritional strategies to improve your glutathione status (also called redox status) make sense, especially as we get older.

Taking n-acetyl cysteine (or "NAC" for short), helps improve the body's redox status.

Some other chemicals like n-nitroso compounds that enter the body from the environment are rendered harmless if they are quenched by ascorbic acid, i.e. vitamin C.

The best defense is keeping yourself healthy and fresh outdoor air is the best thing for that.

[cdev]

I have an 80 mm 115 volt fan that pulls so much air and is so quiet it works really well for pulling away the smoke from soldering at its source. It's made by Mechatronics. It's a model UF80A12

[G0HZU]

At work we have various extractors like the PACE model and they are all very big, very heavy, VERY noisy and generally not very efficient unless you do all of your soldering in one small defined location. Unless you do the soldering in this tiny area the unit will fail to suck away the fumes. The intake noise of the hose and the noise from the vacuum motor really are a problem even in a large busy lab and no one likes to hear one of these things start up...

Here at home I made my own extractor many years ago and it vents the fumes outside. It took about 10 minutes to make it and it cost about £5 and it draws in the fumes at least as effectively as the expensive charcoal units but without all the noise. I salvaged a large PC chassis fan and put it in one end of a shoebox sized cardboard box. I cut a hole in the other end and wedged in about 2.5m of air con vent hose (cost £5). The box was hastily sealed using thick black tape for the prototype.

I then place the other end of the hose by my SMD workstation microscope and run the 12V fan at 16V to get some decent airflow. There is very little noise because the business end of the system (the fan) is outside the room because I wedge the box in a small vent window in my workroom. Obviously, I chose a box size that fitted here nicely. Because the extractor hose is wide it doesn't generate  the same intake noise as the PACE units. But it does manage to gather in the solder fumes OK.

When I first made it I expected it to be hopeless but it has remained like this ever since. I never bothered making a more refined version. There is some noise from the fan but it is less than the fan noise from a typical piece of test gear on a workbench (and it is 2m away from my head) and it doesn't have the loud/awful/frantic vacuum cleaner sound of the PACE type extractors. The other bonus with it is that the air con hose is very light and pliable and easy to move to a new location.

[cdev]

See the images in this screen capture of a Google search on heat recovery ventilator.

As you can see its not that complicated. IMHO these devices are overpriced for what they are.


But they are almost essential I think for anybody who solders.

They are just plain essential for new construction, too.

(Given the amount of fake wood products, plastic flooring and carpets, Ikea-like fake-wood furniture, and other fume-emitting junk in both new and remodeled homes today.)

An alternative to this which should work for a good chunk of the year - especially in mild climates, is a double window fan that has a setting to blow in and out at the same time.  Then you can affix a duct to the exhaust side so that the intake can be right behind your work area. Thats a simple solution, cost around $30 that in temperate zones will work well enough in all but the hottest and coldest months.

[nanofrog]

FWIW, I found a source for an square aluminum HRV core on Alibaba (FOB price is $60 & MOQ=1; doesn't give the specs or shipping costs though, so the seller would have to be contacted).

Hexagonal galvanized HRV core (FOB $60, MOQ=1, size is 163mm x 163mm x 60mm; shipping unknown).

Basically just leaves DIY'ing up a box and adding a couple of fans (+ ducting of course). Personally, I'd go with squirrel types, but if you've something suitable on-hand, use it IMHO. Plywood is both easy to work with and inexpensive in terms of an enclosure.

Using what's on-hand is what got me started on the idea of converting a Honeywell HEPA air purifier. Mine's a round type for a large room, so I was going to wrap it in sheet metal & add ducting (filter change is from the bottom, exhaust air exits from the top). Simple enough, but it's really too large I think, even with two intakes as I'm also considering 2x solder areas; one for SMD while under a microscope, and one on the main bench (already have the tables/benches). The HEPA filter only needs vacuumed from time to time, but the carbon pre-filter is a consumable.

[cdev]

Really, wow, I never would have thought to look there, but indeed, there it is.

Cool. well, thats the only part that seems hard to me to make..

Actually, the picture shows on the right a few others. The square one makes the most sense to me because - less air restriction.

A Honeywell air cleaner works fine as is.. as an air cleaner

The black prefilter is a prefilter to prevent the HEPA part from getting clogged up with large pieces of dust before its time. You can clean off the black prefilter - say once a month, I do that outside.. then dry it off and put it back..

HEPA works by taking the same air and running it through the filter again and again. To get dust out.

No reason you cant have both going, the HEPA filter for air inside your house and the HRV to exchange it with fresh, taking its exhaust air from where you are soldering..

[cdev]

Plywood isn't good because its prone to getting moldy.. much more so than regular wood..   Composite wood products are even worse..  Plus they have a bad habit, if they get wet of catastrophically "delaminating".

An HRV has to have drainage for both the winter and summer if it gets really cold or really humid there (not so much the spring or fall, although then there are rainstorms and heavy winds which can sometimes drive rain almost horizontally.. )

Under both scenarios moisture can sometimes condense in the HRV core. Not a lot, but enough to make it moldy if it pools somewhere AND there is some kind of food for mold.. even just a thin layer of dust..

It doesnt take much to prevent this.. a small drainage tube that goes outsidein a way it wont/can't freeze up.

(Rarely a problem in Australia, thankfully for Aussies- but humidity outdoors, and air conditioning could cause problems..is it ever really really hot and humid in Australia, I wonder?)

[nanofrog]

Really, wow, I never would have thought to look there, but indeed, there it is.

First link that came up when searching the term HRV core. 

Actually, the picture shows on the right a few others. The square one makes the most sense to me because - less air restriction.

I suspect it would also be easier to implement inside an enclosure (just 2 baffles to direct the airflow).

The black prefilter is a prefilter to prevent the HEPA part from getting clogged up with large pieces of dust before its time. You can clean off the black prefilter - say once a month, I do that outside.. then dry it off and put it back..

Yep.

Commercial HEPA fume extraction systems I've seen use a pre-filter for dust, followed by a carbon filter, and finally the HEPA filter all stacked atop one another. The Honeywell just wraps the carbon pre-filter around the HEPA to simplify matters. No big deal to add some thin foam (stuff used in window A/C units), which is easily cleaned with a garden hose. And replace the carbon filter as needed (HEPA too if vacuuming it no longer restores proper airflow).

No reason you cant have both going, the HEPA filter for air inside your house and the HRV to exchange it with fresh, taking its exhaust air from where you are soldering..

This is the plan, so long as I can meet my intended budget to construct an HRV (hoping to keep it to ~$100 given what I have on-hand).

Regarding cores, it's my understanding the hexagonal type are more efficient than square units. That said however, I'm wondering if it will even matter given the hexagonal unit is made of galvanized steel vs. aluminum for the square core. 

[cdev]

Aluminum is better, in this context, I bet.

There are some (commercial) HRVs that run the air through two stages of heat exchangers..

The basic one like the one that I have is around 65% efficient, I think adding a second stage brings it up to around 80%.

You really will like it, I bet. I would get the cube. The more airflow, and the more proximity between the two flows, the better.

I really find it almost essential. Think of it as similar to the human (animal, etc) nose, which serves a similar function. (adjusting the temperature of incoming air)

[Brumby]

In most of Australia, we aren't particularly concerned with dealing with extremes of temperature - well, mind-numbing cold anyway.  So whacking in an air-con was about as sophisticated as it got.  More recently efficiencies are becoming a subject to consider ... but (IMO) general thinking is still way behind the rest of the world.

Many years ago I pondered on the subject of thermal energy waste and bringing fresh air into a room.  I had some ideas and did some thought experiments ... and considered it as something worth doing.  I came up with a design which included dual fans and a few other features and thought it was worth a try.

Then, in a discussion far removed from my mental tinkering, someone used the term "HRV" which I hadn't heard before.  So I Googled it.

 

I knew I had a good idea.....

[nanofrog]

Aluminum is better, in this context, I bet.  ...[snip]...

I suspect your right.

Turns out that after further investigation, the hexagonal units are also using aluminum internally; the galvanized steel just makes up the structural portion the aluminum is fitted inside of. The baffling to direct the airflow isn't any more complicated either, so either type should pose similar challenges in construction. Ideally I'd prefer aluminum for the enclosure as well, but it's out of budget based on pricing I've found thus far. Not sure on say 18 or 16ga. steel and some urethane paint. Tooling and skill wise, I can weld, braze, or rivet steel. With aluminum, I can rivet; not sure about brazing it, and definitely can't weld it.

Moisture is a real issue for me, as I live in a very humid climate most of the year. I also run a window AC unit due to the equipment running (runs ~80F without the window unit in the dead of summer), which can exacerbate the condensation issue if I correctly understand what I've been reading.

Regarding enclosure size, it may differ from a square/rectangular core (very likely I suspect), but that will be sized to fit the core and fans (form follows function).

Then, in a discussion far removed from my mental tinkering, someone used the term "HRV" which I hadn't heard before.  So I Googled it.

 

I knew I had a good idea.....

Still... a good idea, is a good idea.  And for something you discover is actually COTS, cheaper than cobbling one together on your own. 

Lack of tooling is usually what causes me to slam on the brakes. 

As for feeling like you're in the stone age or whatnot, it's not that much different here. HRV/ERV systems are recent introductions. I can't recall when the codes kicked in, but I don't remember them being installed per code in homes built in the '90's (grew up in a family of electricians). As my current home was built in '56, it's not there. Not even after having to replace the entire HVAC system in 2010, as there wasn't the room to add one (budget either). It does have a HEPA system though, and the evaporation core is copper to raise the SEER value.

[nidlaX]

Zavasuction solder fume extractors from www.3dhose.com (warning, site is in Korean and no other language options it seems). They use a 24VDC laptop PSU so only require the correct power cord to get it running.  Some interesting accessories come with it, and there's even 5050 LED lighting built-in the intake.

Neat, although I would still prefer to exhaust the air outside at the end of the day. Time to message them on eBay.

I've already done so in regard to whether or not the seller can offer the Type B units and how much if it's possible.

eBay seller has added the Type B unit to the listing.

By the way, shouldn't this thread be under "Other Equipment and Products" for better visibility? I think many people would be interested in our discussion.

[nanofrog]

Zavasuction solder fume extractors from www.3dhose.com (warning, site is in Korean and no other language options it seems). They use a 24VDC laptop PSU so only require the correct power cord to get it running.  Some interesting accessories come with it, and there's even 5050 LED lighting built-in the intake.

Neat, although I would still prefer to exhaust the air outside at the end of the day. Time to message them on eBay.

I've already done so in regard to whether or not the seller can offer the Type B units and how much if it's possible.

eBay seller has added the Type B unit to the listing.

By the way, shouldn't this thread be under "Other Equipment and Products" for better visibility? I think many people would be interested in our discussion.

I just finished reading the reply message the seller sent me (BTW, they're 3D printed). 

Type B set is $220 shipped, so not bad at all (I like the idea of getting it off of the bench top and this one looks to do the trick). Replacement filters aren't expensive either at $27.00 for a 3 pack.

Regarding the HRV, I'm thinking clothes dryer vents & ducting will take care of that part. Particularly 4" rigid aluminum flex duct for routing in my case as it will be vented from the top section of a window (and it's not expensive; $10 for an 8' length once stretched).

BTW, anyone found suitable fans?

As per moving this part to a new thread/s & section (Zavasuction in one, DIY HRV in another?  ), sounds like a good idea to me.

Mods, any input on this ^?

[nidlaX]

I just received a package from South Korea today, more info to come later tonight.

[cdev]

Today was my HRV core washing day (it needs filter cleaning and a spray with a hose every few months)

So after it came inside and was sitting in the sink I took a picture of it. Its pretty big.

This is after it was power washed, I think the brownish color is the quite yellowish light from our kitchen light/ceiling fan adding with outdoor light and an LED lamp. Its not dirty.

You can see how big it is, it wont fit in the sink unless I move the faucet way to the side. This particular HRV can circulate ~ 150 cfm. (from memory)

Its a home HRV, not industrial.

This likely is the best way to deal with solder fumes year round. Extract the heat from them, while sending them on their merry way outdoors.  Replacing the air with fresh but pre-warmed outdoor air.

The filters are washable and their main function is keeping bugs, airborne particles/dust out of the system.  Indoor pollutants can impact peoples health a great deal. Continuous, quiet ventilation is a very good thing.  If you can site returns behind your workbench, they move enough air that your solder fumes will just vanish into them.

[KL27x]

There are a lot of crazy fume extractors in this thread!

After getting a headache an hour or so following a long session, I hot snotted a computer PSU fan to the bottom of my microscope head, powered from a small transformer. A few weeks later, I finally added an on/off switch instead of letting it run 24/7. I dunno what's in the solder fumes, but it seems like it isn't noticeable to me as long as it isn't wafting directly under my nose. 
 
The warnings on all the fluxes I have used have stated it is an irritant is all. I'm sure putting your face 1 foot directly above a candle for 3 hours a day would be irritating, too, with the smoke plume within breating distance. I'm not convinced the average joe needs a fume hood or extraction to the outdoors for regular leaded solder fluxes.

[ciccio]

I use soldering irons since high school days (1965....) and since then I'm costantly fighting with soldering fumes.
Sometimes I had to solder more than 1000 joints a day, and I was worried, so I tested anything I could find.
Fans with filter: I bough one,  similar to the Dave's one, but with an extension arm.
It works only if located near the tip (max 20 cm) so it is not very useful.
(Somebody can explain why soldering smoke seem to swirl always against your face?)
I built a big plexiglass hood that stood over the bench, without blocking the light from above.
Put a couple of fans on the top to vent air and smoke  up, but fans had to run very fast (and made a lot of noise) to move the smoke away.
The solution was a localized aspiration, ot the iron's tip.
Weller made a special iron for the WTCP station (see attached photo.
I found a suitable vacuum pump, put it inside a cabinet with an home made filter, and put the cabinet under the bench.
It worked very well for some years.
It is not suitable for very fine work, but it saved my lungs...
A fume extraction tube can be fitted to most soldering iron, there are companies that make "universal" kits.

[KL27x]

^Localized extraction is indeed very efficient. This makes it simple to add extraction/fan to a stereomicroscope. The fan will always be the same distance/orientation from the center of the FOV, which is more-or-less right where you will always make the fumes.

In my wishlist is to have an automatic solderwire feeder that is attached to the microscope head. It would feed the wire from 12 o'clock in the FOV, at an adjustable height under the objective to keep it as close to the pcb and to being in focus as possible.

[cdev]

I just realized today I need better eye protection. I wear glasses, Ive always worn glasses. I'm nearsighted. But as Ive gotten older when I solder often I find myself bringing the work closer and looking "over" my glasses in that way that older people do. This is not good because sometimes something will suddenly sputter. *sigh*

[chhrisedwards]

Solder creates fume that pose serious health risks like asthma if not managed properly. There are different types of solder fume extractors which used to control or reduce exposure to fumes and also prevent serious health problems. Certain applications can release more fumes or may be spread out over a larger surface area, this may require a more powerful fume extraction unit or solder fume extractors.

[cdev]

"heat recovery ventilators" are basically the ultimate fume extractors.

They really do extract the fumes, replacing them with fresh air.

I have experience with an HRV  from Fantech.

http://www.fantech.net/

Works year round, can be left running all the time, and no need to buy expensive filters. Just clean the filters, to keep them dust free.

[cdev]

I know that feeling SO well.. LOL..

In most of Australia, we aren't particularly concerned with dealing with extremes of temperature - well, mind-numbing cold anyway.  So whacking in an air-con was about as sophisticated as it got.  More recently efficiencies are becoming a subject to consider ... but (IMO) general thinking is still way behind the rest of the world.

Many years ago I pondered on the subject of thermal energy waste and bringing fresh air into a room.  I had some ideas and did some thought experiments ... and considered it as something worth doing.  I came up with a design which included dual fans and a few other features and thought it was worth a try.

Then, in a discussion far removed from my mental tinkering, someone used the term "HRV" which I hadn't heard before.  So I Googled it.

 

I knew I had a good idea.....

[nidlaX]

A quick (long overdue) update.

I bought a Zavasuction Type B extractor from their eBay store at a slight discount in exchange for posting a review. I've recorded about 20 minutes of a teardown, but haven't had any time to edit or post it. Since it might be that way for a few weeks, I'll just give a quick pro-con from using it for a few hours.

Pros:
Cheap(er) than comparable options
Works ok after you position it correctly
Adjustable airflow
Independent switches for fan and LEDs
Comes with a quality (if genuine) external power supply
Threaded inserts on top cover screws for durability when changing filters
Has built-in slots for adding c-clamps or some other method of securing it to a table
Bright and useful LED strip built-in
Uses a good NMB blower fan inside
Can be powered from lower voltages (12V) at reduced fan speed / air flow performance
Moddable, modular construction

Cons:
3D-printed construction of hose segments feels a little rough when being manipulated (might or might not be ok for durability)
No convenient / pre-built way of directing exhaust out a window
Requires clamping / weighting for balance, especially if solder holder is used
Fan is extremely loud at effective air flow speeds
Air flow could be better to allow for greater working distance between duct and workpiece
Didn't send me a US NEMA cord for the power supply (small oversight)
Fan body is cracked around screw holes (Self tappers might be too big, but small chance I might have over-torqued when re-assembling)
Doesn't have a frivolous, but cool looking LED clock display like the Type A

Overall, cool concept and a good entrant in this space, but I think you can do better in terms of functionality and value if you decide to roll your own exhanger or bath-fan / HEPA filter based extractor. Given the footprint of the unit, it might be unreasonable to expect better noise / air flow performance. Video review to follow someday...

[agehall]

Fantech (a Canadian company that is part of Kanalflakt which I think is Swedish or Finnish)

OT: LHG Kanalfläkt has been called Systemair for about 20 years now and is a Swedish company. And yes, Fantech is part of Systemair.

I started my career working for them building software for their test rigs back when I was still in high school..

[cdev]

Do you still know anybody there?

Or can you tell me what protocol I need to use to speak to my residential HRV controller board?

(Without betraying any company secrets, I don't want you to do that..)


The board uses an AVR and it has a bunch of relays and motor controllers to control the motors. I like the HRV very much. I am an enthusiastic user of their products - But I want more control than is available on the wall control panel.

I will likely try to sniff the signaling that my controller and wall control use.

I have one of their vertical HRVs. I have their fancy wall control for it. I want more control over the HRV.

As I said earlier, its also the only good way to actually extract solder fumes outside year round.

When I solder I turn the HRV on full blast in continuous mode and even in the winter, the house does not get cold as it would with two fans or a fan blowing out and dirty make up air being sucked in through cracks..

It works quite well.  Its cold here now and the HRV is on - sometimes its on all of the time.  The air coming in from outside is warmed up quite a bit by the outgoing air.

Fantech (a Canadian company that is part of Kanalflakt which I think is Swedish or Finnish)

OT: LHG Kanalfläkt has been called Systemair for about 20 years now and is a Swedish company. And yes, Fantech is part of Systemair.

I started my career working for them building software for their test rigs back when I was still in high school..

Awesome..

Where I live, there aren't very many people who use or have even heard of HRVs. Unfortunately.

[agehall]

Do you still know anybody there?

Or can you tell me what protocol I need to use to speak to my residential HRV controller board?

Unfortunately I don't have any good connections for that these days. Most of the people I knew are long gone or have no connection to the technical side. Besides, most of that stuff is probably developed outside of the HQ in Skinnskatteberg where I used to live and work.

[cdev]

Yes, this is really true.  (Rosin) flux fumes can and do cause colophony disease (i.e. asthma) if people don't take steps to not breathe them in.. 

That can be as simple as a fan to suck them away from the work area and blow them somewhere else.. Which in a closed room is dilution, not extraction.

Almost all of the so called "solder fume extractors" are just means to dilute and move air, and often remove particulates, and rarely are they even good ones. They suck the fumes away but the activated charcoal is invariably just there for show and doesn't really function to remove any toxic fumes after the very beginning.

A HEPA air cleaner works as well or better at what they do, as far as particles go, and filters are better and cost less.

However, HEPA air cleaning works best when its allowed to refilter the air in a room or building over and over and is left on all the time.

Solder creates fume that pose serious health risks like asthma if not managed properly. There are different types of solder fume extractors which used to control or reduce exposure to fumes and also prevent serious health problems. Certain applications can release more fumes or may be spread out over a larger surface area, this may require a more powerful fume extraction unit or solder fume extractors.

[cdev]

Right there you have been quite helpful.

I didn't know that information and last I looked, (quite a while ago) I was unable to find anything about Kanalflakt either, as I can't speak Swedish. (only a very little German)

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't have any good connections for that these days. Most of the people I knew are long gone or have no connection to the technical side. Besides, most of that stuff is probably developed outside of the HQ in Skinnskatteberg where I used to live and work.

[wraper]

They suck the fumes away but the activated charcoal is invariably just there for show and doesn't really function to remove any toxic fumes after the very beginning.

A HEPA air cleaner works as well or better at what they do, as far as particles go, and filters are better and cost less.

However, HEPA air cleaning works best when its allowed to refilter the air in a room or building over and over and is left on all the time.

Sorry, but you wrote a piece of complete garbage. HEPA filter filters out only small particles but lets all toxic gases through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA. Charcoal is what absorbs toxic gases. https://science.howstuffworks.com/gas-mask2.htm

A chemical threat needs a different approach, because chemicals come as mists or vapors that are largely immune to particulate filtration. The most common approach with any organic chemical (whether it be paint fumes or a nerve toxin like Sarin) is activated charcoal.

[cdev]

You need to read up on how activated charcoal is used and how it works. Also apply some common sense.

Also, activated charcoal however its used (it also is useful orally for some kinds of poisoning) never could eliminate everything. The crucial questions here are "are 'toxic gases' present in solder fumes, if so, what are they?
Then  we have to ask, does activated charcoal remove those gases if they are there?
If yes, then How much activated charcoal is needed and how does it work,

Then how much of this toxic gas can it remove and for how long under what conditions"

Then we have to ask what happens when it can no longer aDsorb whatever it adsorbs. (note the "D") and "what happens then to these substances, are they permanently attached to the carbon?

Its not a simple thing.. especially when peoples lives are at stake.

The simple answer here is, apart from acting as a prefilter to keep big particles - visible dust out of the pleats of a HEPA filter, the use of activated charcoal in (every single non-industrial air cleaner I have seen to date) is basically for show and not likely to remove toxic chemicals except at the very beginning after its unwrapped..

because of how those cleaners are designed and the amount of carbon present is just not enough, it wont last for long because there is a lot of stuff in our air that is not toxic but still will get 'adsorbed" ruining the ability of the tiny amount of activated charcoal there to work. Its still useful though, to keep big stuff out of the HEPA filter making it last much longer. Any kind of mesh or net or cloth would do that.

Look at activated charcoal filters for industrial applications and you will immediately see what I mean. Also, you'll see that they are replaced quite frequently. Failure to do that will endanger lives.  Don't take my word for it, ask people who use them. Ask your regulatory agency that regulates industrial safety.

Definition of adsorption
:the adhesion in an extremely thin layer of molecules (as of gases, solutes, or liquids) to the surfaces of solid bodies or liquids with which they are in contact — compare absorption
— adsorptive play \-?s?rp-tiv, -?z?rp-\ adjective

They suck the fumes away but the activated charcoal is invariably just there for show and doesn't really function to remove any toxic fumes after the very beginning.

A HEPA air cleaner works as well or better at what they do, as far as particles go, and filters are better and cost less.

However, HEPA air cleaning works best when its allowed to refilter the air in a room or building over and over and is left on all the time.

Sorry, but you wrote a piece of complete garbage. HEPA filter filters out only small particles but lets all toxic gases through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA. Charcoal is what absorbs toxic gases. https://science.howstuffworks.com/gas-mask2.htm

A chemical threat needs a different approach, because chemicals come as mists or vapors that are largely immune to particulate filtration. The most common approach with any organic chemical (whether it be paint fumes or a nerve toxin like Sarin) is activated charcoal.

Yes, but...

Which Activated Carbon Should I Use?
The first decision for using carbon is to treat a liquid or vapor stream. Air is best treated using large particles of carbon to reduce the pressure drop through the bed. Smaller particles are used with liquid applications to reduce the distance the chemicals have to travel to be adsorbed inside the carbon. Whether your project treats vapor or liquid, there are different sized carbon particles available. There are all different substrates such as coal or coconut shell base carbon to consider. Talk to a General Carbon representative to get the best product for your job.

How Do I Use Activated Carbon?
Carbon is typically used in a column contactor. The columns are called adsorbers and are designed specifically for air and water. The design is engineered for loading (amount of fluid per area cross section), contact time (a minimum contact time is needed to insure required removal) and pressure drop through the adsorber (needed to size container pressure rating and fan/pump design rating). The standard General Carbon adsorbers are pre-engineered to meet all of the requirements for good adsorber design. We can also design special designs for applications outside the normal range.

How Long Does Activated Carbon Last?
Carbons capacity for chemicals depends on many things. The molecular weight of the chemical being removed, the concentration of the chemical in the stream being treated, other chemicals in the treated stream, operating temperature of the system and polarity of the chemicals being removed all affect the life of a carbon bed. Your General Carbon representative will be able to provide you with an expected operating life based on the amounts and chemicals in your stream.


Does Activated Carbon Absorb or Adsorb?
Activated carbon adsorbs. The chemical process of absorption is commonly compared to a sponge soaking up water. The water is fully integrated into the sponge, not being limited to the surface area. Differently, adsorption is a process whereby molecules stick to the surface area only. As mentioned above, activated carbon has a large surface area due to being a porous material. The unwanted substance sticks to the surface area of the carbon particles.

Which Carbon filter is best for me?
There are several kinds of activated carbon filters and determining which filter will work best for you is actually not that complicated. If you would like to learn more about the proper treatment of your application, our technicians are more than willing to find a solution. Please contact us for more information through this process.


http://www.generalcarbon.com/facts-about-activated-carbon/activated-carbon-faq/

[wraper]

Also, activated charcoal however its used (it also is useful orally for some kinds of poisoning) never could eliminate everything.

Are you joking. Military gas masks contain activated charcoal. Just for marketing reasons you say?  Gas mask producers, Weller, ERSA, OKI and all others must be stupid to make their filters mostly from activated charcoal.

The crucial questions here are "are 'toxic gases' present in solder fumes, if so, what are they?

So you insist that flux fumes are nothing more that dust particles? They contain a lot of stuff, including halides if flux is not halogen free.
Yet again:

The most common approach with any organic chemical (whether it be paint fumes or a nerve toxin like Sarin) is activated charcoal.

And here you go: https://www.elexp.com/Images/Health_Hazards.PDF, all organic stuff

Threshold values for some of the VOC’s that exist in soldering smoke fumes.
CAS-no Name Chemical no: Threshold value Threshold value
 Mg/m3* ppm*
25167-80-0 Chlorophenol C6H5CIO 0,5 ---
50-00-0 Formaldehyde CH2O 0,6 0,5
111-30-8 Glutaraldehyde C5H8O2 0,8** 0,2**
71-43-2 Benzene C6H6 1,5 0,5
108-95-2 Phenol C6H6O 4 1
141-43-5 Ethanolamine C2H7NO 8 3
7647-01-0 Hydrochloric acid CIH 8** 5**
75-07-0 Acetaldehyde C2H4O 45 25
100-42-5 Styrene C8H8 90 20
108-88-3 Toluene C7H8 200 50
67-63-0 Isopropanol C3H8O 350 150
67-34-1 Acetone C3H6O 600 250

Some read about Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs):
https://toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/text_version/chemicals.php?id=31

The simple answer here is, apart from acting as a prefilter to keep big particles - visible dust out of the pleats of a HEPA filter, the use of activated charcoal in (every single non-industrial air cleaner I have seen to date) is basically for show and not likely to remove toxic chemicals except at the very beginning after its unwrapped..

because of how those cleaners are designed and the amount of carbon present is just not enough, it wont last for long because there is a lot of stuff in our air that is not toxic but still will get 'adsorbed" ruining the ability of the tiny amount of activated charcoal there to work. Its still useful though, to keep big stuff out of the HEPA filter making it last much longer. Any kind of mesh or net or cloth would do that.

Activated charcoal is not used to filter big particles. It actually contains of particles by itself. And there is not tiny amount in flux fume filters, they contain a very thick layer of if. If we talk about serious filters, not that compact desk crap.

[cdev]

Wraper, the filters sold for solder extractors are mostly particulate filters with a thin carbon prefilter that could not possibly last for long enough to be effective for more than a very short time, maybe at best a few hours or a day or two, in a best case scenario. if that.

The thin layer of black material they contain- may well be 'activated carbon" but they almost always contain too little of it to clean toxic gases for more than a very short period. (Minutes, hours, likely not even a full day for all but the very thickest of them) If they had enough activated carbon, they would be huge and heavy and they would need a much stronger motor to pull the air through them, then the cost of replacing the activated carbon at a frequent enough interval would make them into such a niche product they would not sell, it likely would make them too expensive for the market.

If you go to Google Images and pull up the images returned by the phrase "solder fume extractor" as I did, you'll be unlikely to see anything that could do what you're claiming they do for any more than a very short period of time. Maybe at the most a few percent of the time period their filters are supposed to be replaced in.

do it, search on "solder fume extractor" The images you will have returned, even the heavy duty looking ones, are likely HEPA filters that are not functioning as activated charcoal filters in the way you are claiming for any reasonable length of time. Their sellers are unlikely to make such claims, if they do, you'll likely find either that the filters cost more than you would ever have guessed, and as I said, weigh a lot and require a huge motor, or are not based on activated charcoal, instead they are HEPA filters, because it just would cost too much, So I think you'll find that lets say 99% are not activated carbon filters in any more than a cosmetic way. Maybe some are but they are likely so expensive they are out of the price range of all but industry.

This is another reason why HRVs make the best "solder fume extractors". They actually do extract the fumes. For many people, if you live in a mild climate a simple fan connected to a vent hose going outside makes sense. The only filter you need is a screen to keep bugs from flying in.

Do some research and you'll find this to be the case. The manufacturers likely found that people wanted the carbon but didn't want to pay the cost of it.

[wraper]

Wraper, the filters sold for solder extractors are mostly particulate filters with a thin carbon prefilter that could not possibly last for long enough to be effective for more than a very short time, maybe at best a few hours or a day or two, in a best case scenario. if that.

Yeah, "only" 2kg of activated carbon in average OKI filter. I don't need to google any pictures. I have my own Weller WFE2ES. Although it is "economy" version compared to WFE2S, it's default filter is still very thick and heavy. HEPA filter won't be that thick, and even if it was, it wouldn't be this heavy. I rather suspect you haven't ever seen a decent solder fume filter yourself. Also activated carbon can adsorb a lot of contamination. Depending of what contamination is, around 20-50% of activated carbon weight.
https://www.okinternational.com/File%20Library/Metcal/Application/Fume%20Extraction/List%20of%20Adsorption%20Ability/Metcal-Carbon-absorption-list.pdf If there is 2kg of activated carbon, then think how much flux you should burn to get enough fumes to wear out the filter. Even if it's a cheap desk fume extractor with just 10g of activated carbon, producing 2-5g of fumes by soldering is still not that easy task. Certainly not just a few hours of soldering. If you evaporate a liter of solvent into the filter, then yes, you can kill it rather fast (with just a HEPA filter it will simply go thorough the filter). But kilogram of flux fumes in not something I will achieve in a year.

Filter life expectancy example.
A customer uses propanol (Isopropyl Alcohol) for a manual cleaning application. His consumption is approximately 50 grams per week. Propanol
has a capacity index of “4” (between 20 to 50%) or approximately 35% by weight.
Carbon consumption = 50g / .35 = 143 grams. With a filter capacity of 2.05Kg as with the BVX200 filtration systems, the filter will last 2050 / 143
= 14.33 weeks.
Carbon weight for all OKI gas filters are as follows.
FG-BVX = 500 grams
FG-BVX200 = 2050 grams
FIL22G010 and FIL22G020 = 11,000 grams.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/41755.pdf?_ga=2.239331211.986965499.1510957394-544975003.1505746053

[cdev]

The best price I can find on a 14 week FG-BVX200 filter is $172 each. That's more than I paid for my entire (top rated) HEPA cleaner new with one filter and carbon prefilter. Its filters are $60 each and they last around six months.

The examples you are showing us illustrate what I was telling you.

[wraper]

The best price I can find on a 14 week FG-BVX200 filter is $172 each. That's more than I paid for my entire (top rated) HEPA cleaner new with one filter and carbon prefilter. Its filters are $60 each and they last around six months.

You bought some cleaner not suitable for the task which is not able to absorb toxic fumes and bash all specialized activated carbon based filters  . It will last 14 weeks if you will evaporate solvent into it. Typical solder contains around 3% of flux. Even if we assume that all of it converts into the fumes (it doesn't), you'll need to spend around 20-30kg of solder to wear out the filter. This is more than home users will ever solder in their life.

The examples you are showing us illustrate what I was telling you.

No, they illustrate you make some unfounded assumptions.

[cdev]

It would make sense to enclose /wrap up the $172 filter in plastic wrap when its not being used so that you could get 14 weeks of actual use rather than it being used up even as you slept IF we lived in some kind of closed system, like a terrarium (think THX-1138 - the film) and could not breathe in outside air.  But ventilation makes so much sense because filling a $172 brick with fumes every 14 weeks that could far more simply be blown outdoors is jut nuts. (excuse me for pointing this out)

Look, I am sorry that HRVs exhaust fumes outside rather than EXTRACT revenue for these companies. Sending solder fumes outdoors is free, and nobody makes a penny out of it. One could even use cheap computer fans and a pair of heat sinks to save energy.

The best price I can find on a 14 week FG-BVX200 filter is $172 each. That's more than I paid for my entire (top rated) HEPA cleaner new with one filter and carbon prefilter. Its filters are $60 each and they last around six months.

You bought some cleaner not suitable for the task which is not able to absorb toxic fumes and bash all specialized activated carbon based filters  . It will last 14 weeks if you will evaporate solvent into it. Typical solder contains around 3% of flux. Even if we assume that all of it converts into the fumes (it doesn't), you'll need to spend around 20-30kg of solder to wear out the filter. This is more than home users will ever solder in their life.

The examples you are showing us illustrate what I was telling you.

No, they illustrate you make some unfounded assumptions.

[cdev]

I propose we change the name of this thread to "Solder Cash Extraction" because it more accurately describes filtration devices function when 1.) most of them fail to actually exhaust fumes outdoors.  2.) The ones with adequate filters to remove VOCs with potential health effects extract a high price in cash to allow their continued operation. 3.) Most of us live and work only a few inches away from the "ultimate fume sink" the outdoors.

[wraper]

Look, I am sorry that HRVs exhaust fumes outside rather than EXTRACT revenue for these companies. Sending solder fumes outdoors is free, and nobody makes a penny out of it. One could even use cheap computer fans and a pair of heat sinks to save energy.

It's not free, it's as free as, say, solar energy  . First you need to build ventilation, make a hole in the wall. Often it's not viable, especially if you are renting the place, outdoors may be 20 meters away form the bench. Often it will cost a lot more than just placing filter units and cannot be moved to another place. If it is prototyping bench, and not production, likely you won't need to change the filter ever. I have fume extractor for several years, used a few kg of solder and did not have any need to replace the filter.

being used so that you could get 14 weeks of actual use rather than it being used up even as you slept IF we lived in some kind of closed system

Seriously, do you have problems with consuming information? Understand it selectively to fit your beliefs? 14 weeks is if you put into a filter 50g of solvent per week, which is unlikely to happen in non production environment. Why would filter wear out while not being used?

3.) Most of us live and work only a few inches away from the "ultimate fume sink" the outdoors.

And there is also hole in the wall readily available . And don't forget that unlike in crappy american houses we usually have something like half meter of bricks or concrete.

[cdev]

Why don't you just use a HEPA filter, then, which is much cheaper and probably better for how you use it, because as the main concern is atopy (causation of asthma-  otherwise known as colophony disease - keeping an old filter that likely has got a lot of toxicity in it forever seems to me much more likely to cause health problems because your body never gets a rest from the tiny allergenic particles of colophon (rosin) iany filter traps, and a thick carbon filter retains and may slowly release once its overloaded and past its used up date. You're likely better off with a HEPA filter because as all filters must have at least some holes, both filters are going to release some of the dust trapped inside over time. Replacing the HEPA filter will give your body a respite from the tiniest particles when the filter is new. You may even be able to find a washable HEPA filter that is reusable.

Learn about the alveolar spaces- Particles under one micron can get so deeply into your lungs that they go into your blood stream.

Work with me here.  I know the situation you are describing with renting really well too. You likely also could install a small HRV in a window with vent covers so that even hard driving rain could not get in, in such a way that when you moved out there would be no evidence it was ever there.

And there is also hole in the wall readily available . And don't forget that unlike in crappy american houses we usually have something like half meter of bricks or concrete.

You're right there, most US houses have relatively thin walls, just a few inches, actually, unless you live in an adobe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe

[wraper]

Why don't you just use a HEPA filter, then, which is much cheaper and probably better for how you use it

Because I already wrote earlier. Do you understand that solder fume filters do have HEPA filter within them as well? And that HEPA filter is located BEFORE activated carbon filter. The problem is it won't catch most of the crap contained in flux fumes as I said earlier several times. Where did you get the assumption you need to filter particles only? And the rest of stuff that goes through HEPA (most of stuff contained in flux fumes) is completely fine to breath. If you read PDFs from my posts, you might notice that those VOCs cause asthma and cancer.

[cdev]

Do you replace the $172 filter at the recommended interval of 14 weeks, or enclose it up in an airtight container when its not in use, or don't you?
You seem to me to be contradicting yourself. Where there is a will there is a way. I don't think the way you are using it is going to be so healthy if you just keep the same filter and never replace it, or replace it only very infrequently, but it probably is much better than nothing at all. However, a high velocity fan with a tube on it would probably be better in terms of how much you inhaled because of the higher air moving capacity. Even if it just moved it a few meters away. Its hard to say.

Atopy and the related situation "Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance" is caused by frequent, low level exposures to chemicals, without the body having a chance to give itself a rest.

Why don't you just use a HEPA filter, then, which is much cheaper and probably better for how you use it

Because I already wrote earlier. Do you understand that solder fume filters do have HEPA filter within them as well? And that HEPA filter is located BEFORE activated carbon filter. The problem is it won't catch most of the crap contained in flux fumes as I said earlier several times. Where did you get the assumption you need to filter particles only? And the rest of stuff that goes through HEPA (most of stuff contained in flux fumes) is completely fine to breath. If you read PDFs from my posts, you might notice that those VOCs cause asthma and cancer.

[wraper]

Do you replace the $172 filter at the recommended interval of 14 weeks, or enclose it up in an airtight container when its not in use, or don't you?

I'm confused here.

LOL, why do you again state those 14 weeks is recommended interval. There is no such interval, and it was not stated as such. That was just an example given to estimate how much of pollutant filter can absorb (it can hold inside up to 1.5 lb of solvent in that case). And I already wrote that if 100% of the flux contained in solder core would end up in filter, you'd need to use around 20-30 kg (45 - 65 lb) of solder to use all of the filter capacity.

[cdev]

Activated charcoal filters are not solder rosin specific, they don't just sit there waiting for solder fumes to come along to get used up.

Simply being exposed to stuff in the air uses them up. The air we breathe has got tons of things in it, most (unless you live in a place like I used to live in, which is how I learned this stuff) is non toxic, but still might well bind to activated charcoal. Once its bound it excludes further materials.

Carbon absorbs toxic chemicals in inverse proportion to the amount of time they have been exposed to the stuff in the normal atmosphere. After a while they are used up. All the space on their copious surface area gets occupied.

You might somehow be able to make a reusable carbon filter, if you could make one that could be heated up, very hot, which would drive away the adsorbed chemicals- back into the atmosphere.

[wraper]

Activated charcoal filters are not solder rosin specific, they don't just sit there waiting for solder fumes to come along to get used up.

Simply being exposed to the air uses them up.

They absorb toxic chemicals in inverse proportion to the amount of time they have been exposed to the stuff in the normal atmosphere. After a while they are used up. All the space on their copious surface area gets occupied.

There are two issues with such statement. 1. There is basically no airflow through the filter when it's off. 2. How much VOCs are in air around you so 1.5 lb of them would miraculously end up in filter while it's off. It would be dangerous to be in such place without a gas mask to begin with.

[cdev]

What is the temperature in your workshop, is it 0 degrees Kelvin, or higher?

My guess is that its higher, because you are typing this to me. So, scratch #1

How much VOC is in the air around us? A lot over a long period of time. More than you think, and activated charcoal has an affinity to it. It literally binds it.

There are two issues with such statement. 1. There is basically no airflow through the filter when it's off. 2. How much VOCs is in air around you so 1.5 lb of them would miraculously end up in filter while it's off. It would be dangerous to be in such place without a gas mask to begin with.

[cdev]

How close is your workshop to your kitchen?

2. How much VOCs are in air around you so 1.5 lb of them would miraculously end up in filter while it's off. It would be dangerous to be in such place without a gas mask to begin with.

If you were to figure out how to capture and measure VOCs somehow they would vary a lot from place to place. The main point I am trying to make is that an activated charcoal filter is being used whenever its exposed to the air. Yes, the amount of VOCs in that air would impact the rate at which its loaded and becomes used up. But as long as the temperature is above absolute zero, the molecules of gases in the air are moving around, fast. Its called Brownian motion, look it up. 

Here-




Also you cant expect an activated charcoal filter to only adsorb one kind of potential pollutant out of many suitable molecules when they are present, and constantly bumping into it because of Brownian motion,

Instead it will silently adsorb the appropriate molecules until its used up - unless its in a sealed airtight inert container.
That said, activated carbon is a very interesting substance and quite useful.



Note they say 'reversible' process. That means that the adsorbent media might be rechargeable by heating it.

Lots of things contain chemicals of concern, which often find their ways to us via their VOCs, many of them are harmful. Deregulation of them to the lowest common denominator( as some countries are pressing the EU to do) is a very very bad idea!

Many chemicals used in everyday household items like home sheathing and construction materials, flooring, cookware, plastics, clothing (such as many dyes) newsprint, flame retardants, foam cushioning (such as mattresses and home insulation), inks, household cleaners, perfumes, paints, solvents, plastics, and many other things both potentially adsorb to activated carbon, and might cause cancer and other diseases .  So the problem is that we just simply have enough activated carbon available to adsorb all of these chemicals. You've got the right idea, but you're trying to adsorb too much, and the specific dangerous chemicals in the solder smoke are just some of a great many substances which can be adsorbed to a piece of activated carbon in your indoor environment.

[wraper]

If you were to figure out how to capture and measure VOCs somehow they would vary a lot from place to place. The main point I am trying to make is that an activated charcoal filter is being used whenever its exposed to the air. Yes, the amount of VOCs in that air would impact the rate at which its loaded and becomes used up. But as long as the temperature is above absolute zero, the molecules of gases in the air are moving around, fast. Its called Brownian motion, look it up. 

As if you tell me something I didn't know. I actually predicted there could be something like this from you, so I wrote:

1. There is basically no airflow through the filter when it's off.

I didn't just say there is no airflow, I wrote basically no airflow. Because it is minuscule compared to airflow when it's operating. You really go through the hoops to prove your point regardless of evidence is provided to you. All manufacturers of professional fume extractors and industry in general must be stupid. And you apparently have done laboratory research to prove that, not just made up your arguments.

[cdev]

I'm just telling you what experts in toxic chemicals (i.e. toxicologists) have told me about the charcoal air filters available on the market for consumers.

[cdev]

It is likely that the rate at which the charcoal in the filter became saturated with VOCs would likely vary a great deal.

At some point though it would be unlikely to absorb any more of the substances that bind to it.

That period of time might not be that long.

14 weeks sounds wildly optimistic, from what Ive been told about charcoal air cleaners, but it may be more realistic for filters that are that expensive and heavy.

Do these filters have to meet any OSHA or similar EU specifications?

[wraper]

I'm just telling you what experts in toxic chemicals (i.e. toxicologists) have told me about the charcoal air filters available on the market for consumers.

If it was a super thin layer of activated carbon completely exposed like in consumer air purifiers, I probably would agree it could wear out by just staying off. In this case there is a thick 2kg layer of activated carbon, it's very unlikely anything but a very thin outside layer of it could wear out over time by just staying exposed to the air without any forced airflow through it.

[cdev]

It would 'wear out over time' and in not such a long time compared to the forever you just claimed it would last!

 

I'm just telling you what experts in toxic chemicals (i.e. toxicologists) have told me about the charcoal air filters available on the market for consumers.

If it was a super thin layer of activated carbon completely exposed like in consumer air purifiers, I probably would agree it could wear out by just staying off. In this case there is a thick 2kg layer of activated carbon, it's very unlikely anything but a very thin outside layer of it could wear out over time by just staying exposed to the air without any forced airflow through it.

Also, in order to work without requiring a huge motor basically a vacuum pump or industrial strength pump to pull or push the air, it has to be at a sweet spot between "completely exposed" and (as solid as activated charcoal could be which is still porous) So it is always exposed. And because of Brownian motion, the particles of the air always are moving. Sure, being inside a filter will slow the rate of saturation from "completely exposed" a lot, maybe by a factor of two or three? But I suspect the 14 days was still likely optimistic.

So, our estimates are perhaps within maybe one or two orders of magnitude of one another now!

[wraper]

14 weeks sounds wildly optimistic, from what Ive been told about charcoal air cleaners, but it may be more realistic for filters that are that expensive and heavy.

It's not optimistic. As I said, I have a similar filter for several years and there is no any sign of it worsening it's performance. There must be quiet extreme amount (~700g) of flux fumes to wear it out. Not achievable at hobby use. Actually you could judge state of the filter by just measuring it's weight as it will become heavier as it accumulates more crap inside it.

[innkeeper]

my soldering iron has a fume extractor right at the tip. seems a more practical approach then bulky fume extractors.

[cdev]

You might be able to evaluate the difference between the unfiltered and filtered air using an infrared spectrophotometer?

[wraper]

my soldering iron has a fume extractor right at the tip. seems a more practical approach then bulky fume extractors.

Then you instead have more bulky soldering iron. Filter capacity does not change, you still have the same amount of fumes. Only required airflow is reduced. If it happens to be Chinese soldering station, most likely, it just sucks the fumes and blows them out on the other end as is.

[Pandor]

A quick (long overdue) update.

I bought a Zavasuction Type B extractor from their eBay store at a slight discount in exchange for posting a review. I've recorded about 20 minutes of a teardown, but haven't had any time to edit or post it. Since it might be that way for a few weeks, I'll just give a quick pro-con from using it for a few hours.

Pros:
Cheap(er) than comparable options
Works ok after you position it correctly
Adjustable airflow
Independent switches for fan and LEDs
Comes with a quality (if genuine) external power supply
Threaded inserts on top cover screws for durability when changing filters
Has built-in slots for adding c-clamps or some other method of securing it to a table
Bright and useful LED strip built-in
Uses a good NMB blower fan inside
Can be powered from lower voltages (12V) at reduced fan speed / air flow performance
Moddable, modular construction

Cons:
3D-printed construction of hose segments feels a little rough when being manipulated (might or might not be ok for durability)
No convenient / pre-built way of directing exhaust out a window
Requires clamping / weighting for balance, especially if solder holder is used
Fan is extremely loud at effective air flow speeds
Air flow could be better to allow for greater working distance between duct and workpiece
Didn't send me a US NEMA cord for the power supply (small oversight)
Fan body is cracked around screw holes (Self tappers might be too big, but small chance I might have over-torqued when re-assembling)
Doesn't have a frivolous, but cool looking LED clock display like the Type A

Overall, cool concept and a good entrant in this space, but I think you can do better in terms of functionality and value if you decide to roll your own exhanger or bath-fan / HEPA filter based extractor. Given the footprint of the unit, it might be unreasonable to expect better noise / air flow performance. Video review to follow someday...

You ever got around to posting that teardown? I'm also looking for a reasonably priced fume extractor, and interested in this model.

[lfldp]

hello friends
as i see everybody there is fighting with solder fumes like me
i add there some of the most important informations about air filtration and about "why you shouldnt use/pay for any kind of filters"

so lets start

few year ago i was sure about i can use some kind of carbon filters + prefilters to remove soldering fumes
what i understand at beginning about commerciall air filtration units uses hepa filters + carbon and they make big air static pressure because they are so small
these units like weller zero smog they use few kg of coconut carbon + hepa h13 + prefilter + radial turbine makes by the ebmpapst company with big air pressure up to 3000pa type G1G144 blowers

the reason of this pressure was:
1. hepa h13 add big pressure
2. carbon packed to small tape give even more

at last i was trying to find solution to avoid this problem and what i understand about

1. i can reduce air pressure can use the can-lite carbon filters packed in tube which add significant air pressure to the air outlet
2. use F9 class filters instead of hepa h13 filters

finally ive ended at 6,4kg of coconut carbon + F9 class minpleat pre-filter

and what i can say some of conclusions:

1. the hepa h13 filters in weller zero smog is the least important filter (hepa companies makes big pressure to filter manufactory)
nobody wants to use hepa as in case about this filters makes bigest air pressure to the air filtration units

2. the F9 prefilter lower class do the 95% of the job instead of hepa coz both hepa and this prefilter absorb the dust the F9 is much cheaper and have much lower air pressure

but the F9 or hepa wasnt the point in solder fume filtration

these filters absorb only the dust (well known dust from some commerciall papers noted as the most dangerous) which is completly bullshit !!!

now where is the point

as you know the carbon filter out many of gas particles but these include mostly odours - this is not enough for solder fumes !!!
moreover carbon can remove dangerous lead gas

the coconut carbon is the carbon especially used for lead and for the particles which usuall carbon type coal cannot remove

the biggest problem with solder fumes is about they contain

1. formaldehyde (absorbed by coconut carbon just 50% of weight)
2. isopropylic alcohol etylen metyl/etyl/kethon amonia (removed by 25% of carbon) or even less
3. the lead poison (guessing about is absorbed in 15% not more)

these all of this chemicalls are included in soldering process

like i said i ended up with 6,4kg of coconut carbon and use maybe 150m3/h of airflow speed for fume out in my unit
at last ! i achieve maybe 90% of formaldehyde and 50% lead extraction

now where is the point ?

the answer is simply ,

hakko company said about the lead from soldering isnt dangerous it doesnt evaporate in lower temperatures (perhaps thats why they said this is because they dont have enough of carbon capacity to remove lead gas from the air) !!!

weller company said about they uses hepa h13 filters coz due soldering process there is danger with lead

what i can say there both weller+hakko theory is completly bullshit

proof:

when i have 3kg of coconut carbon i fell still in the air the lead the metallic taste in the mouth this is lead.. and this one what you fell is gas not dust! , when i added more carbon up to 6,4kg i basically didnt fell nothing but like i said 150m3/h maximum airflow coz we facing there time contact with the carbon

this lead gas cause:
1. some kind of fever + mental disorders + phlegm in the throat and many other problems (thats just lead gas! absorbed by coconut carbon)

the lead have its weight of 0,2um to 0,5um both this is gas + dust whether the hepa filter out just up to 0,3um
now i would ask the weller company about where the hell did i missed lead fumes instead of gas ?! did i ever fell them ?

the most important job doing the carbon + F9 class prefilters hepa h13 is not important is just something which is added to charge you more price and tell you the bullshit about air filtration !

now everybody there understand the common points in air filtration
-saying about the 0,3um dust of particles absorbed by hepa is completly bullshit (F9 class filters catch 25% of 0,3 up to 100% to 10um) and we know from literature the about the 0,3um dust is not the whorst , the whorst is 0,5um dust !!!

at last as about soldering fumes the important in air filtratiion is not to remove dust but the gas !!! absorbed by carbon

now i will tell you about why using these filters is completly nonesense and waiste of money

lets back to the weller zero smog (except hakko)

as we know the carbon remove many of particles easily but it have the problem with particles such as amonia metylen etylen keton isopropylic alcoholl formaldehyde and so on (it absorb only small amount of it) and even if you add more carbon you wont hit the jackpot! i said i ended up with 6,4kg coconut carbon vs 150m3/h air speed = 90% of formaldehyde removal and maybe 50% of lead

these substances are most common use in soldering process fluxes+solder tin etc contain them

the weller zero smog instead of carbon use a afterburner to remove all of the rest high pollutants which i listed there

- amonia metylen etylen keton isopropylic alcoholl formaldehyde

this afterburner is so called Potassium Permanganate Impregnated Alumina - this is a chemical media impregnated with kmn04 , both all commerciall fume extractor units use this media or zeolite A4

they have mixed 50% of coconut carbon with potassium impreagnated alumina kmn04 or 70% of carbon mixed with 30% of zeolite A4 molecular sieve

the particles which cannot be 100% absorbed on carbon are absorbed on these filtration media zeolite or kmn04 such as isopropylic alcoholl formaldehydes etc (this is only the way to get them out)
and even if some of manufactories uses especially impregnated carbons to remove aldehydes these are impregnated with oxidizers (oxidizer = kmn04 or similiar)

disadvantages of this units are as follow:

-zeolite and kmn04 alumina is expensiff by comparing to the carbon
-zeolite = irritant !!!
-kmn04 = toxic/irritant !!!

at last when i mixed coconut carbon with zeolite and both with kmn04 alumina for test i said this is enough !

they offcourse with 5kg of carbon and 25% of zeolite removed formaldehydes but i fell very irritant air ....
these remove some of pollutants but they add much more pollutants as from they structure to the air!

but thats not the biggest nightmare in this story i would tell you more...

i use this filters mostly for hand soldering = smd ic + various fluxes + more

and lets say when i solder 3 hours per day the F9 class prefilter stand alive up to 6 months

but this wasnt the end of this nightmare

the problems started when ive connected bga station in chamber to filter outlet

i started the station just 7 times to solder or desolder large bga ic from board
the result = F9 class prefilter completly damaged !!!

conclusions:

the filters to use for fume extraction are not whorst any penny to use...

as in case of irritant chemicall media such as zeolite and kmn04 impregnated media
and dust filters going to die very quickly...

at last if someone is interessted i can upload there photos of my devices these include can-lite filters replaced with coconut carbon + prefilters

finally i understand about i need some kind of HVAC which is not easy to use in building i have in plan to mount a chamber at the window and use input/output pipes

[lfldp]

finally at last to summarise what i said

1. dont use any filters nor pay for them whatever because they are not whorst for soldering
2. weller zero smog units doesnt remove lead gas completly they have maybe maximum 3kg of coconut carbon which is not enough to remove this gas at 300m3/h speed
this amount of carbon is not even enough to remove lead gas at 150m3/h from air stream !!!

but they dont tell you this... coz they cant include 15 - 20kg of carbon in they units coz they would blow/kill ebmpapst blower by that and instead of this they are telling you about they have very important (which is not important) hepa h13 filter who remove you a dust particles up to 0,3um including lead dust ... which is so funny

well believe or not even if lead is produce 0,3 0,2um dust particles then you wont fell them and any of weller zero smog is not enough to remove them (it cant remove 0,2um !!!) where they missed 0,2 ? does they dont have enough of radial blowers to use ulpa filters ? dont believe in this

this what i fell in my setups was the only lead gas... partially absorbed by carbon (offcourse can be absorbed in 100%) but need to add maybe +20kg of carbon

moreover these commerciall air filtration units are very noisey , the manufactory cant reduce this noise
even if the design of radial blower is much more powerfull than standard fan they are noisey
offcourse you can set few of can-lite carbon filters + noise silencers (you can even puts 50kg of carbon) and you get (no air pressure drop) due to structure of these filters packed in tubes instead of weller tapes
but... you wont hit the jackpot anyhow in air filtration and if you add the zeolite or kmn04 to the carbon you would kill yourself by these chemicalls in air going out from the filters !

[wraper]

when i have 3kg of coconut carbon i fell still in the air the lead the metallic taste in the mouth this is lead.. and this one what you fell is gas not dust! , when i added more carbon up to 6,4kg i basically didnt fell nothing but like i said 150m3/h maximum airflow coz we facing there time contact with the carbon

I would rather believe you have brain problems and need to visit psychiatrist rather that there is "lead gas"  , and moreover that you can taste it.
BTW to cure your "lead gas" obsession, use lead-free solder. And effing learn some chemistry.

[lfldp]

will add there more informations which i forget to add before

well only the weller zero smog + few other air filters from market contains afterburner except the carbon , these like i said are zeolites and kmn04 impregnated media
weller has kmn04 whether the hakko have only the coconut or even not coconut but coal granulated carbon !

these afterburners remove particles with molecular weight from air very successive but like i said they are irritant and toxic
only the high end expensiff commerciall fume extractors have them included

you can buy zeolite and kmn04 impregnated alumina
zeolite is easier to find and buy but both have same price

these remove molecular weights particles - these vapours which killing/damage you at soldering process

the others are removed success by carbon but these not so important to remove except lead , coconut carbon can only remove a half of molecular particles

later i upload photos of my setups these include x4 can-lite plastic tubes 1,6kg of carbon per tube = 6,4kg of coconut carbon + F9 class minpleat prefilter
when i fill them with just carbon i still fell in the air a little formaldehydes + isopropylic alcoholl in the air + offcourse lead poison

and whether if is possibly to remove all of aldehydes + alcoholls by mixed coconut carbon with chemical media known as zeolite or alumina
then is not possibly to remove lead poison from the air by that

guessing about i would need 40 - 50kg of coconut carbon to remove 100% lead from the air over 150m3/h speed which is completly nonesense to buy/pay for setup like that

but like i said if someone is interessted in solder fume filtration i answer to his questions because i payed for these devices not small money

now i wanna back to HVAC HRV questions knows as recuperator

i live in building have one air output in kitchen and one in bathroom (checked them and looks like only the bathroom output is isolated from the neighbours) but near it there is a gas heater for heating the water - i should not connecting there air output from heat recovery unit

the plan is to insulate all of the windows + add some kind of curtain for bathroom air output
the curtain will be set ON when i started soldering and using HRV
in kitchen i can cloag-off completly air output because i dont have gas in kitchen anymore

now where connect the input and output from hrv
the only possibility in this stupid building is to build some kind of chamber which covering one window with connected pipes
the chamber must be opened and after window must be opened at last chamber going to be closed and HRV turned on

there could be a risk about the dirty air will mix a little with fresh air
to avoid this i will try to separate 2 sides of chamber a little or at the whorst case scenario i will output one pipe far away first room to another window

[lfldp]

when i have 3kg of coconut carbon i fell still in the air the lead the metallic taste in the mouth this is lead.. and this one what you fell is gas not dust! , when i added more carbon up to 6,4kg i basically didnt fell nothing but like i said 150m3/h maximum airflow coz we facing there time contact with the carbon

I would rather believe you have brain problems and need to visit psychiatrist rather that there is "lead gas"  , and moreover that you can taste it.
BTW to cure your "lead gas" obsession, use lead-free solder. And effing learn some chemistry.

man
i use lead-free tin in 90% of my work
just sometimes i must use leadded balls for bga
and if you believe in fairy tales about leaded tin from internet about it is not toxic it doesnt evaporate etc.
do the simply test

go and solder 1 - 2 hours with leaded tin and in next day repeat the same with lead-free tin

this what you fell in the mouth known as metallic taste from leadded tin is a lead which is slowly damaging you
you wont fell it while you solder with lead-free tin so doesnt the lead dont evaporate under soldering process ? 

in past i did solder with lead few hours per day for many years and i get many health issuess from this poison
later when i switched to lead-free tin i start felling alot better

anyways we are speaking there mainly about the filters for solder should remove lead in 100% because even if someone uses lead-free tin sometimes he facing leadded tin from some of pcb etc.
but they dont do this job !!!

because by paying big money for filters you expect 100% clean air - do i have right or not ?
but the pitty tale about leadded tin taken from internet is another part of this story
i heard about also the lead-free tin is more dangerous than leadded coz it evaporate much more smoke (because must be heated at 230C)

then if you have this problem go and buy+use especiall lead-free tin with bismuth which you can use in 138C offcourse if you believe in this fairy tales

and btw. i doesnt have any problems with my brain and rather we are speaking there about fume air filtration how it works and if is whorst of paying for these devices or not
the lead is another problem of this story and yes think whats you want but this lead gas is who killing you
you are slowly working on cancer (brain cancer) while soldering with leaded tin

when you read some papers in google you understand about these informations about leadded tin are weak and not 100% true
hakko is claiming about the lead doesnt evaporate or even if evaporate is just a little amount while soldering
whether the weller company claiming about oh yes there is really a lead and thats why they include hepa h13 filters in they fume filtration units (this is the most of the important filter in they setup)
at last go to SENTRY AIR website and read about latest leaded tin discoveries they said it is not like some of companies mentioned about the leaded tin the case is much more whorse

this funny informations about leadded tin are 15 year or even more weak , try to find and read the current informations

btw. dont you think about this old papers about the lead in soldering process have been writen by air filtration manufactories ?
i think very possibly because they know about they air filter units canot remove lead gas in 100% maybe if they have 50kg - 70kg of coconut carbon they can but for filters like that you would pay big money
and one G1G144 turbine blower would be not enough to move air troutght this filtration media

and if we speaking about lead-free tin then i can say there about
i use it for long time and i dont have problems to solder with even soldering wave , the only one problem i see with this tin is when i solder the wires they must be secured coz if you bend this connections you would simply damage pcb connections
so rather you should solder the wires by placing them on the pcb - position at the base of the pcb - this is the only one problem for me one issue with lead free soldering

[wraper]

in past i did solder with lead few hours per day for many years and i get many health issuess from this poison
later when i switched to lead-free tin i start felling alot better

Did you actually visit a doctor to check for lead poisoning? Heard about placebo effect? Also solder is much more than alloy, there is flux which makes way more difference in what soldering fumes contain. Not to say usually there is some part which is was not sucked into fume extractor.

[lfldp]

in past i did solder with lead few hours per day for many years and i get many health issuess from this poison
later when i switched to lead-free tin i start felling alot better

Did you actually visit a doctor to check for lead poisoning? Heard about placebo effect? Also solder is much more than alloy, there is which makes way more difference in what soldering fumes contain. Not to say usually there is some part which is was sucked into fume extractor.

no i didnt
it was 3 year ago when i inhalle this leadded tin now all is ok because in 90% i use lead free tin and also i used fume filters , now prepairing to use HRV
later ill upload there photos of these filters

i dont visit the doctor but anyway i have many health problems these include:
-chronicall problems with sleeping at night for 1 year or more (cant sleep normall going to sleep usually at 4AM of clock) and when i sleeping i sleep many hours nobody cant wake me up so sleep whole of days
-problems with brain memory
-problems with concentration
-sometimes i feel some kind od fever

all of this symptoms gone when i changed leadded tin to lead free

so we can out there some of conclusions maybe i am a little more allergic than others but...

[lfldp]

like i promiss i uploading there photos
these include older design F9 minipleat + can-lite inline 5kg of carbon + 2 noise silencers + fan

the latest design have much less air pressure and is a bit quieter
contains x4 tubes of can-lite 1,6kg of carbon each = 6,4kg of carbon at all

also include photos of my diy bga station inserted in plexi-glass chamber (can run also under hose)

https://ibb.co/2nSQcNx
https://ibb.co/MgRRHr9
https://ibb.co/8xBVpZW
https://ibb.co/yN4VSxd
https://ibb.co/DDPqZnK
https://ibb.co/4KqBkMT
https://ibb.co/0m9nKpk
https://ibb.co/SvRJxzM
https://ibb.co/BgZT7W6
https://ibb.co/NY7GXLS
https://ibb.co/3vv1LNs
https://ibb.co/ZmLgH41
https://ibb.co/r5QQNLC
https://ibb.co/KXmRFkB
https://ibb.co/Mf34csp


in my opinion this design is only recomended for hand soldering (bga soldering via bga station killing F9 minipleat filter very fast)

now compare this design with weller zero smog

my setup advantages

-quiet (can be very very quiet you can add more silencers and replace fume hoods to plastic one)
-cheap design by comparing to weller and exploatation of it is much more cheaper
-filter more of VOC particles + much more lead gas than weller can
-use optionally coconut carbon or coco + one of the afterburners known as oxidizers zeolite or kmn04 impregnated media
-is enough to use quiet cheap fans because the assembly area of carbon filter and F9 is very large but the wall is narrow

the maximum air pressure of both carbon + F9 filter is 130pa when all filters going to be contaminated

disadvantages of it:

is big by comparing to weller
replacing the filters are little bit harder than in weller

now about the weller disadvantages

-very noisy its design doesnt allowed you to connect silencers
-very expensiff to buy and expensiff in exploatation
-one filtration media going to be damaged and you must replace full filter
-use very expensiff blower when going to be damaged no possibly to buy same one and even if would be possibly it will cost you big money to pay
-when all filters contaminated you gets around of 2500pa air pressure drop on the blower

advantages:
- the filter machine is very small by comparing to mine
-have better nozzles fume hoods


at last i have question about HVRs
how to clean heat exchanger after fume (mainly formaldehydes contamination) ?
does is possibly somehow to clean it full without damaging it ? i am speaking about standard countercurrent heat exchangers
does that one of heat exchanger is best for solder fume extraction or maybe choose another one ?

[lfldp]

more explantation from me about whole design

mainly the fluxes contains formaldehyde mixed rosins which is easily absorbed by zeolite 4A molecular sieve or activated alumina impregnated with kmn04 (and partially by coco)
isopropylic alcoholl too

but some of the fluxes contain some kind of alcoholl or other acids which is not absorbed good by sieve 4A and kmn04 media , these should be absorbed by zeolite 3A

as for example we can list there few of the amtech flux (original and counterfeit)
-rma-233 = use zeolite 3A to remove its odour
-lf-4300 water soluble flux - use 3A to remove
-syntech - use carbon (highly absorbed by carbon)
-nc-559 v1 original amber odour - use 4A for it
-nc-559 v2 - use 3A for it
all of the chinese amtech flux including kingbo use 3A

just mix coconut carbon with zeolites 3A and 4A but remember !!! the zeolite is irritant in air too

and btw. the weller zero smog have kmn04 impregnated media instead of zeolite which is no good to remove particles near 3A molecular weight
but the reason about they uses kmn04 instead of zeolite i think to avoid auto-ignition of carbon if is used in large manufactories
coz the carbon could auto-ignition in some situations but mixed with oxidizer such as kmn04 it wont fire up

the zeolite in use i found in ayoue solder fume extractor but perhaps 4A only

btw. zeolite is less irritant than kmn04 media and offcourse you wont fell it in air (the kmn04 media) (maybe fell a little alcoholl) but it can damage you for example can damage the liver when inhalled this is poison

[lfldp]

more informations from me

1. setting fans and silencers to published filter design by me

use EC fan the best and cheap one found in my country this is just example > https://allegro.pl/oferta/wentylator-kanalowy-vents-tt-pro-150-ec-602m3-h-9112396028

cheap + quiet + energy efficient fan type VENTS-TT-PRO 150mm , can use also 100mm version but 150mm is 10db more quieter

this setup is for use 6,4kg can-lite 4 tubes filters + F9 minipleat it will cost you maybe 15W of power

2. setup for use F7 minipleat + hepa h13 or even ulpa

yeees it can be upgraded to use with hepa but only if you believe to hepa industries about microparticles who killing you and it will cost you more money to pay + more power to suck
coz this what i fell in the air from lead is a gas not microparticles dust!

for this use one of the ebmpapst fan radical around of 100W or harmann ec 150mm at last you must achieve around of 500pa+100pa
hepa will need around of 500pa at 200m3/h + the rest of filters will need 100pa (30pa for carbon and 70pa for F7 filter)

this will add more noise to yours setup

but anyways at last even if you paying for hepa (finally you will pay just half price of the weller filters price + they would stand 1/2 longer than weller filters)

another of my question about HRV - does anybody there connecting noise silencers to HRV with contaminated air from solder ?
because as i heard they can be cleaned somehow (if noise silencer will going to contaminated it will lost its damping features)

how many speed will need this design ?
well guesing about i dont exceeded the 130m3/h from small chamber for hand soldering (fume hood)
the bga station chamber need more... speed i think maximum 200m3/h

[lfldp]

hepa vs f9 class filters + some other informations

well like i mentioned before from my experiments with carbons and dust filters results as follows:

as for example with lead the lead have its own 0,2um to 0,5um weight (both evaporated by gas and dust)

F9 class filters remove dust from 0,3um up to 10um (while some of high quality F9 filters can remove 25% of 0,3um dust)

the hepa h13 filter is just more efficient coz it can remove the same as F9 + 99% of 0,3um dust

but to run hepa you must pay much more money for electricity and for filter media

conclusions:

basically this whats damaged me from soldering was the gas and dust but in reality it wasnt the 0,3um dust just from 0,5um to 10um (this is very good absorbed by F9 class filters)
i didnt fell any of 0,3um microparticles in air all the phlegm in throat and other problems caused me the gas and large dust
so...
the hepa h13 is installed in many commerciall air filters (these are installed even if they no needed to be used in this equipment) - why ? because the hepa propaganda knows about issusess to use hepa instead of F9 or lower class filters thats why they made all of this propaganda about microparticles are much whorse to health vs large particles

now back to the track

by my experiments ive understand about the lead from heated leadded tin cause this symptoms which i listed before
it cant be formaldehyde from tin or other.. because when i have just 3kg of carbon i fell it maybe in 80% when i added more carbon ive reduced this maybe to 20%
as you know the carbon especially granulated and coconut shells can remove some of HEAVY METALS , heavy metal = lead

maybe one friend who speaking with me there and others doesnt fell/(cant recognise lead gas from formaldehyde) let them try to make a carbon filters (separate by them formaldehydes from air stream + dust) and ihalle just this 20% of suposed lead gas then after that they understand whats they inhale

in short this cant be another particles than lead because carbon removed only gas not dust

who said this story and writen publications about the lead ? what you think so ? thinking there staying behind this air filtration manufactories and especially hepa
and offcourse the lead dust is also dangerous to health but like i said F9 doing all of the job for its dust , and not the dust is the most whorse but the gas - try it yourself setup filters and let know how do you fell + compare with heated lead-free tin to be sure 100% whats you inhale at the output of filters

and btw. for past few years ive waisted alot of money to paying for these filters (creating them whatever) this resulted from my ignorance about how they works and how i should setup them and whats to use

today i have big experience with air filtration but it isnt usefull for me anymore after ive connected my bga station to this filters i understand there is only one choice for me at last = HRV
so if someone is interessted in this filter design/research fell free to ask me i will answer to any type of question

[lfldp]

forget to add there other important informations

what is kmno4 impregnated alumina air filtration media ? - this is the media used as afterburner mixed(added) to the carbon in 90% of high end air filters
where to buy it ? well is hard to buy in small ammount but not impossibly ask this company they have it i buyed there too https://allegro.pl/oferta/sita-molekularne-molecular-sieve-3a-4a-5a-13x-9188958271#aboutSeller

what is a molecular sieve known as zeolite ? these are yellow/orange ceramic balls again ask this company https://allegro.pl/oferta/sita-molekularne-molecular-sieve-3a-4a-5a-13x-9188958271#aboutSeller
they have both 4A 3A sieves for sale you can even buy 1kg from them

from my experiments the zeolite is much more powerfull than kmn04 media in the meaning of formaldehyde and acids removal

the coconut carbon i buyed there > https://www.aces.pl/
ask them about coconut carbon for air filtration

the F9 class filters i buyed from this company http://ultramare.com/pl/ , they have high-end F9 filters with reasonable price

and depending on application and choice use only coconut carbon if you wanna remove more of lead gas and stay with formaldehydes in some of % but if you wanna completly remove formaldehydes and some of acids mix this coconut carbon with zeolite

this F9 filter from ultramare cost 130pln polish zlotych with shipping costs and for hand soldering is good but for bga station (not any dust filter wont last/stand you more than for few times of solder)

so for me this case of air filtration is closed

btw. to remove lead gas completly from soldering process i think you will ended with 20kg of coconut carbon in the best case scenario
this aces company have some kind of specific carbons especially to remove heavy metals from air , then you can try that one and reduce ammount of carbon to do this job

another option is to build 45cm x 45cm air filter with x9 can-lite tubes and F9 big filter
this setup will give you around of 15kg carbon + if you wanna to use hepa h13 in this company you pay cheaper for 45x45cm hepa but you must wait for it over 1 month to deliver
and you will loose maybe 200pa with this setup so you pay cheap price for electricty