Soldering Stations - Weller vs JBC

[yngndrw]

Hello all,

I know that this question seems to be asked every couple of years, but I haven't been able to find a decisive answer in the previous threads and they don't seem to take into account the latest offerings. I was hoping to get some advice related to my specific requirements.

First of all I'm a hobbyist, I do a range of soldering from through hole to large cables (My latest was an 8 AWG silicone cable into an XT-90 connector which I did with very poor results.) and have recently started doing some SMT work. (Have a microscope for this and started off with those little SMT practice boards you can get on eBay with good results.) I've also had issues with smaller stuff such as soldering a 1cm piece of 2.5mm^2 solid-core cable to a test pad with this iron. I don't go through many tips so tip cost isn't really a factor for me.

I currently have a Weller WMP with a WDD 80V power unit and a 1.6mm chisel tip. I use a mixture of leaded and un-leaded solder (Mainly use 0.5mm or 0.3mm) as I try to get experienced with both, neither give me much of an issue except that I find that I need to use a higher temperature to get the solder to melt at a rate that I want it to and this means that the tip oxidises quicker preventing solder from sticking between wipes. (I use 350-400C for leaded and 400-450C for un-leaded) I believe the active tip irons will help with this allowing me to reduce my temperatures a little while retaining the fast melting. I really like the short tip-to-grip distance on the WMP iron.

So I've been considering a few options:

1) Buy a WSP 80 iron for the larger stuff - This can be used with my existing power unit but only helps with the larger stuff and uses the LT tips which I've heard bad things about. This is by far the cheapest option. (~£150)

2) Buy a WX2020 / WXP 120 / WMRT package - This gives me access to the latest Weller irons, gives me a large iron for the larger stuff some SMT tweezers for de-soldering and allows me to purchase a WMRP at a later date to replace the WMP. It's also a dual iron power unit meaning that I won't have to keep swapping between large and small. This is the most expensive deal but I have found this for around £600 (Excluding WMRP) which isn't so bad for the amount of stuff I'd get.

3) Build a power supply for the newer Weller 12V irons and buy a WMRP iron - This is relatively cheap and a nice little project which would help out with the smaller stuff. I'd be interested in seeing just how much of a difference the active tips make, can the WMRT be used for 8 AWG cables for example ? (http://kair.us/projects/weller/index.html)

4) Switch to JBC and buy a CD-2BE power unit with a T245 handle - This could be a nice option if this unit can replace both the WMP and the WSP 80 for larger cables. There is the T210 handle with the same power rating which could mean a smaller tip-to-grip distance. I believe these are 55W continuous with 130W "burstable" heating, but I'm not able to find a definite answer on this. Can one of these replace a WSP 80 and solder 8 AWG cables ? I can pick up this package for about £300 (With a collection of tips if I go for used) but the HD version seems harder to come by.

5) Build a power supply for a JBC T245 handle ?


I have some more specific questions which should help my narrow down my options:

1) How does the Weller WMRP compare to the WSP 80 - Can it solder 8 AWG cables ?

2) How does the JBC T245 (Or T210) compare to the WSP 80 - Can it solder 8 AWG cables ?

3) Can a JBC T245 / T210 handle be plugged into a "HD" power unit ?

4) Can the JBC desoldering tweezers be plugged into a standard JBC power unit ? (E.g. The CD-2BE)

5) How do the JBC power ratings work ? Are my above assumptions correct ?

6) Are the desoldering tweezers any good ? I have a hot air rework station but the tweezers seem much better.


I'm not looking at things like Hakko as they seem to be more difficult to get in the UK. I've pretty much narrowed down my options to Weller and JBC as above.

Thanks,
-Andrew.

[SteveyG]

Personally I'd be considering a Metcal or Thermaltronics rather than the Weller - you'll never want for any more power - the downside is the Metcal tips can be a little pricey, although the Thermaltronics ones are compatible and the JBC just as expensive. The JBC is great in terms of performance, but I dislike the T245 handle. We have a whole bunch of new irons at work and they all get quite hot towards the end of the finger grip, almost too hot to hold after about 15 minutes of use.

[GreyWoolfe]

I have a couple of the Thermaltronics tips for my Metcal MC-500 and the performance seems to be equal to the OEM tips that I have.  I have had my Metcal on for hours and the handle doesn't get warm near the finger grip.  Choose the appropriate temp rated and sized tip for your applications and you're good to go.  If you shop smart on eBay, you can find OEM Metcal tips for the same price as the Thermaltronics tips.

By the way, if you hadn't yet figured it out, I will also vote for the Metcal 

[nanofrog]

1) Buy a WSP 80 iron for the larger stuff - This can be used with my existing power unit but only helps with the larger stuff and uses the LT tips which I've heard bad things about. This is by far the cheapest option. (~£150)

I own a WSP80 (w/ a WD1 power unit), as well as a WMP. The WP80 iron has a bit shorter tip-to-grip distance, and can be used as a replacement for the WSP80. Either are quite suitable to SMD as well

Regarding the LT series tips, the only ones that have had some issues are those made in Bosnia (~30% defect rate, such as the plating coming off); the US, German, and Japanese made tips have been fine. BTW, you're running a bit too high of temps. They seem to be addressing the quality issues, but there's still a lot of NOS in the supply chain (hopefully not just marketing fluff). And FWIW, the newer ones I've gotten with the laser etching (makes it much easier to ID the tips) are holding up well.

There are also 3rd party tips available; Plato/Techspray would be one brand to look for, and they're reasonably priced as well. There are even Chinese made versions being sold on eBay. Regardless of the tip source, they're not terribly expensive as they're not cartridge types.

2) Buy a WX2020 / WXP 120 / WMRT package - This gives me access to the latest Weller irons, gives me a large iron for the larger stuff some SMT tweezers for de-soldering and allows me to purchase a WMRP at a later date to replace the WMP. It's also a dual iron power unit meaning that I won't have to keep swapping between large and small. This is the most expensive deal but I have found this for around £600 (Excluding WMRP) which isn't so bad for the amount of stuff I'd get.

You could go this route, or skip the WMRP & keep using the WMP for fine SMD work (the larger irons are quite well suited to SMD packages that are easy to solder by hand).

3) Build a power supply for the newer Weller 12V irons and buy a WMRP iron - This is relatively cheap and a nice little project which would help out with the smaller stuff. I'd be interested in seeing just how much of a difference the active tips make, can the WMRT be used for 8 AWG cables for example ? (http://kair.us/projects/weller/index.html)

No. That particular iron is meant for small package SMD stuff.

4) Switch to JBC and buy a CD-2BE power unit with a T245 handle - This could be a nice option if this unit can replace both the WMP and the WSP 80 for larger cables. There is the T210 handle with the same power rating which could mean a smaller tip-to-grip distance. I believe these are 55W continuous with 130W "burstable" heating, but I'm not able to find a definite answer on this. Can one of these replace a WSP 80 and solder 8 AWG cables ? I can pick up this package for about £300 (With a collection of tips if I go for used) but the HD version seems harder to come by.

The T245 would be equivalent to the WSP80 or WP80, and the T210 to your WMP in size (more appropriately compared to the WMRP or WXRP, as they use cartridge tips).

Like the Weller 80W irons, the T245 can do most anything in the SMD world (0402 easily; smaller under a microscope, as they offer suitable tips just as Weller does with the LT series).

5) Build a power supply for a JBC T245 handle ?

Quite doable. 

Take a look at sparkybg's Universal Soldering Iron Controller, as it can operate both JBC & Weller irons. Heck, it can even do tweezers, as it has 2 sensor & 2 heater lines.

I have some more specific questions which should help my narrow down my options:

1) How does the Weller WMRP compare to the WSP 80 - Can it solder 8 AWG cables ?

2) How does the JBC T245 (Or T210) compare to the WSP 80 - Can it solder 8 AWG cables ?

3) Can a JBC T245 / T210 handle be plugged into a "HD" power unit ?

4) Can the JBC desoldering tweezers be plugged into a standard JBC power unit ? (E.g. The CD-2BE)

5) How do the JBC power ratings work ? Are my above assumptions correct ?

6) Are the desoldering tweezers any good ? I have a hot air rework station but the tweezers seem much better.

1. Not even close. The WMRP or WXRP are very small, meant solely for small SMD packages. The T210 & Weller 80W irons can do an 8AWG wire with a suitable size tip, no problem.

2. The T210 is also strictly meant for small SMD stuff. T245 is the general purpose size, and will handle 8AWG.

3. You mean a DDE-2B?
If so, Yes. Works with all of their tools.

4. The CD models are the Compact line, which have a dedicated stand built-in (there is a dedicated PA120 small SMD tweezers unit, CP-2E). The modular stuff will do what you want, but it's more expensive (will handle their irons or tweezers, and desolder tools with the addition of a vacuum unit).

5. Already answered I think.

6. From what I've seen, Yes. Particularly for quick desoldering of passives when hunting down faults. But hot air also works well IME, and you already own one (save funds). Shields similar to what JBC offer are nice when you need to keep the heat isolated, and you can DIY something if you're so inclined.

I'm not looking at things like Hakko as they seem to be more difficult to get in the UK. I've pretty much narrowed down my options to Weller and JBC as above.

Batterfly sells 230V Hakko gear in the EU/UK market, and the prices are good (English option at top center of page).

Take the FX-951 for example; 340EUR (+VAT & free shipping). They also offer an FM-3032 micro iron kit @ 122EUR for the FX-951. Fewer features as it's analog, but the FX-950 comes in for less (225EUR).

If you're set on dual channel, take a look at the FM-203 (uses the same irons as the FX-951). Cost wise however, you'd run the same money if you got 2* FX-951 stations (one dies, you can fix the other  ). Makes placement more flexible as well if the microscope isn't in the same location as your larger iron.

Hakko's tip quality is superb, and are reasonably priced as well, particularly for cartridge types (cheaper than JBC or Weller).

[RobertHolcombe]

The HD station OP refers to is the HD-B station, its a single tool control unit in the style of the previous generation single tool control unit, but designed for the T470 handpiece. I have no experience with the HD line.

The T210/T245 and PA120 are not interchangeable when using the compact control units (CD-B, CD-P, etc) - the handpiece connectors are physically different. The modular tool stands all have the same pinout and cable to connect them to a modular control unit, but they again have connectors specific to the handpiece they are designed for.

I have used the PA120 for just over a year and they are great for removing chip and SOT packages. In the fully open position the tips are ~8mm apart which does limit their use for larger components. I prefer them to hot air because they are more precise - only applying heat where needed so no need to worry about adjacent components or heat sensitive parts. I originally intended to add a second T245 to my configuration however found the PA120 more than suitable for use as a conventional iron when a second iron is necessary, with the added benefit of being able to use either one or both tweezer tips depending on the application.

[nctnico]

I like neither (but JBC is better than Weller). I'd go for Ersa gear. Not so well known but their tips last very long and can always be made to wet with little effort. In the past decade I have not replaced a single Ersa tip. I recently got the hot tweezers from Ersa and that just keeps going and going and works better than the one from JBC I have used due to much better & precise alignment.

BTW: the temperatures you are using are way too high. Stick to 330C for both leaded and unleaded and use BIG tips for soldering jobs. For soldering 8AWG you might need to look at a much more powerfull iron like 150W or so.

[yngndrw]

Thank you all for your responses, there's some really great information in your responses and they have been very helpful in helping me narrow down my options. (Although some of you have added to my list of things to look at !)


Let's start off with the more conventional irons. I think that based glowing reviews of the active tip irons, this is the way forward for conventional resistance-heater irons. I've heard great things of all of these over the standard fixed-heater-separate-tip irons.

The Weller WMRP seems to have the best implementation of this due to the in-handle cold-junction compensation. The other manufacturers don't seem to include a thermistor along with the cold-junction which seems wrong to me as the temperature in the handle (Insulated by your hand and heated via conduction from the tip) may vary greatly from the temperature at the power unit. I also like the fact that their latest power units support all of their irons, including the tweezers. Having said that, Weller only offer active tips for their smaller irons and not the larger ones, so that along with price rule them out I think.

I'm a little limited on the research I can do here as I'm away right now, but it seems like Hakko offer active tips on a range of sizes of iron. They do however only seem to support the tweezers with their dual channel supplies and these seem to be quite expensive (Even more than I can get a Weller setup for !) so I think that rules them out for me although they might be a better option for those in America. Thank for for the link to Batterfly though, nanofrog, as I've been looking for a reliable place to get their C1390C PCB holder from. (http://www.batterfly.com/shop/hakko/hakko-c1390c)

Ersa look interesting but I see relatively few people mentioning them compared to the others, so on that basis I have to be weary. With the kind of money we are talking about, I'm reluctant to take a punt on something which doesn't have a raft of followers. There's also the price and like I say I'm limited on the amount of research I can do here so I've not looked into these a huge amount for these reasons.

This leaves us with JBC for the conventional irons, they offer a range of iron sizes with active tips and the pricing of the compact range is excellent. There are however two concerns for me, one is that for the tweezers (And HD irons) I need to look at either the modular / premium  supplies which are expensive or I need to get multiple compact supplies. I'm also very concerned by SteveG's report of the T245 grips getting too hot - I really like holding soldering irons very close to the tip so to not be able to do this is an issue for me. I have noticed that in other threads, users of JBC irons have mentioned that they haven't experienced this issue but it concerns me either way. If I were to go with JBC, I'd probably buy a compact power supply with a T245 handle, then build a power supply for the tweezers.


So that wraps up the conventional irons, the closest to meeting my needs seems to be the JBC compact range. Now onto the induction irons.

Thermaltronics only seems to supply 40W units and also require you to switch between irons on their dual-port stations which seems annoying, the Metcal MX-5200 range however is 80W shared and powers both ports together. Oddly enough I can find the MX-5200 at a really good price, comparable to the JBC setup. The only downsides seem to be the need to change tip in order to change temperature (Not a huge issue for me as long as it has lots of power, which a video showing the MX500 soldering a 15mm nut onto the head of a bolt suggests that the 80W iron should not have an issue at all !) and the huge cost of the tweezers. (~£300) Can the older Metcal (Or even Thermaltronics) tweezers be used with the newer MX-5200 power units ?


All in all, I think I'm leaning towards a Metcal MX-5210 setup as long as I can get it for the right price. I may then get the JBC or Weller (Or Ersa ?) tweezers and build my own supply for them.

Realistically, what's the difference in feel between the Metcal MX-H1-AV and MX-H2-UF handpeices ? Would the ultra-fine one still be able to solder my 8AWG joint with the right tip ? I'm thinking a UFTC-7CH12 tip might just-about be up to the job ? The ultra-fine handpiece is about £70 more expensive but if I can get away with just that for the larger joints I'll probably be happier as it's more suited to the SMD work. Being able to use a single size of iron for all of my work would really please me.


Regarding the temperatures I'm currently using, my issue with lower temperatures is the speed that my current iron melts solder. At lower temperatures it does melt solder fine, just not at the speed I want. I know that I risk lifting pads (Although I can't say I've ever lifted a pad, even at 450C), that the tip will oxidise quicker (Which it does and it's annoying, but a quick wipe on the sponge resolves that) and that tip life is reduced (Not an issue for me as this isn't a production setup) but I just find that this setup works for me right now. I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the same experience with this new iron setup at lower temperatures and therefore improve my "solder-wetability" and time between needing to clean my tip.


Edit: Forgot to ask, I believe that the Hakko FX-1001 iron / T31 tips fits the Metcal power units, but how do they cope with the MX-5200 power units and their 80W output ? The Hakko FX-100 only has a 50W output in comparison but I'm not sure about the tips - If they will work I might try the Hakko FX-1001 iron and holder with the MX-5200 power unit as the Hakko irons are much cheaper even in Europe. For that matter, the same question for using all of the older Metcal and Thermaltronics irons which were designed for the older 40W 13MHz systems on the newer 80W power units ?

[yngndrw]

Decided to bite the bullet on a Metcal MX-5200 setup.

I purchased:

• Metcal MX-PS5200 power unit - Used / £240 (There's another here if anyone's interested: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252445046270)
• Metcal MXUK1 Kit (MX-H1AV iron and MXW1AV stand) - New / £170 including import charges from the US
• Metcal STTC-045 tip - New / £30
• Metcal STTC-138P tip - New / £32
• Metcal STTC-836 tip (I wanted the 834P version but couldn't find it on eBay) - New / £34

This should give me a good range of tip shapes and temperatures, The standard iron looks to have a reasonable tip-to-grip distance but if it's too long for my liking I'll pick up the ultra fine iron and another stand.

I'm still thinking about the desoldering tweezers but this iron should do for now. Thank you everyone for your help.

[SteveyG]

Decided to bite the bullet on a Metcal MX-5200 setup.

I purchased:

• Metcal MX-PS5200 power unit - Used / £240 (There's another here if anyone's interested: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252445046270)
• Metcal MXUK1 Kit (MX-H1AV iron and MXW1AV stand) - New / £170 including import charges from the US
• Metcal STTC-045 tip - New / £30
• Metcal STTC-138P tip - New / £32
• Metcal STTC-836 tip (I wanted the 834P version but couldn't find it on eBay) - New / £34

This should give me a good range of tip shapes and temperatures, The standard iron looks to have a reasonable tip-to-grip distance but if it's too long for my liking I'll pick up the ultra fine iron and another stand.

I'm still thinking about the desoldering tweezers but this iron should do for now. Thank you everyone for your help.

Only just spotted replies to this thread. Congrats on your purchase - you'll not be disappointed. I am also considering the tweezers, but since I have two irons I just use them together to lift components.

The handpiece tip-to-grip distance is really quite small - significantly better than any other iron I've used, so you should have no issues with that.

I have a YouTube video of my MX-5200 system.

[Augustus]

Regarding JBC iron handles getting hot, they seem to have addressed the issue and ship new stations with the T245-C thermal insulator handle instead of the T245-A. Even the cheap "analog" BT-2BWA got this upgrade.

http://www.jbctools.com/t245-c-soft-thermal-insulator-handle-product-958-category-5-menu-1.html

[yngndrw]

Only just spotted replies to this thread. Congrats on your purchase - you'll not be disappointed. I am also considering the tweezers, but since I have two irons I just use them together to lift components.

The handpiece tip-to-grip distance is really quite small - significantly better than any other iron I've used, so you should have no issues with that.

I have a YouTube video of my MX-5200 system.

I've not seen anyone use two irons to lift SMD components, well I tell a lie - There was a video of someone using three irons to lift a USB connector but it didn't look too practical. I'm not sure if my hands are coordinated enough for that but I may give it a go. I was planning on just searching on eBay for any of the desoldering tweezers (By and major brand) to come available for a good price and then building a power supply for it.

Good to know about the length, my handpiece will arrive later in a couple of weeks as it was cheaper to import it from America so will be a little while before I can see how it is for me.

I'd already seen your video on the MX-5251 but in looking through your videos I noticed that we have the same router. Not a very common router so thought that was interesting.

Regarding JBC iron handles getting hot, they seem to have addressed the issue and ship new stations with the T245-C thermal insulator handle instead of the T245-A. Even the cheap "analog" BT-2BWA got this upgrade.

http://www.jbctools.com/t245-c-soft-thermal-insulator-handle-product-958-category-5-menu-1.html

I missed that when I looked through the JBC lineup, good to know. Looks like it only applies to the T245 and T470 handles.



Regarding Weller tips for the WMP, I decided to purchase the NTD tip (4mm chisel) for the 8AWG join that I had to do before I purchased the Metcal setup and just tried it today. It just about did the job, but I noticed that the packaging of the tip said it was made in Bosnia which I wasn't expecting for the NT series. After just two joins with the solder (Leaded) and temperatures  (450C in this case, I needed the heat for the size of joint) that are fine on my other NT tips (I have an NT1 which came with the iron many years ago and is still good), I now have black spots on the new tip which are unwettable and don't seem to be cleanable on a wet sponge so I assume that is the plating that's gone bad. What's the best way to confirm that it is a plating issue before I go back to the seller, other threads have been about the tips dissolving which this tip hasn't ?

[Frost]

Looks like it only applies to the T245 and T470 handles.

Yes, for the T245 it seems to be the default option now,
because the last time I orderd a T245 without the grip
and received one with the new thermal insulator grip
already attached.

But for the T210 handle a thermal insulator grip is not
realy necessary, I use them both and the T210 stays cool.

The T210 is mainly for SMD work, so I use only very
small cartridges and I set the standby delay time for
this handle to 0 seconds and the off delay to
60 seconds.

The heatup time from room temperature to 320 degrees
with a T210 handle is under 2 seconds and from
180 degrees standby temperature to 320 degrees
under one second.
This thing is unbelivable fast, with no overshoot.

[nanofrog]

Regarding Weller tips for the WMP, I decided to purchase the NTD tip (4mm chisel) for the 8AWG join that I had to do before I purchased the Metcal setup and just tried it today. It just about did the job, but I noticed that the packaging of the tip said it was made in Bosnia which I wasn't expecting for the NT series. After just two joins with the solder (Leaded) and temperatures  (450C in this case, I needed the heat for the size of joint) that are fine on my other NT tips (I have an NT1 which came with the iron many years ago and is still good), I now have black spots on the new tip which are unwettable and don't seem to be cleanable on a wet sponge so I assume that is the plating that's gone bad. What's the best way to confirm that it is a plating issue before I go back to the seller, other threads have been about the tips dissolving which this tip hasn't ?

FWIW, 8AWG is too large for that iron, regardless of tip. Just not enough mass IME (I've an NTD from Japan).

I even made the mistake of lending it to a family member and it came back as you described (he was using it to solder 10AWG).  In this case, the black stuff was flux that was literally burnt to a crisp. Fortunately, a bit of Weller tip tinner/activator fixed it (T0051303199). It does an excellent job of cleaning off this sort of crap and rejuvenate otherwise dead tips (dried flux + solder powder). Just turn on the iron, let it come to temp, and roll it about in the tin a couple of times. When done, they come out bright & shiny again. 

If the plating has actually come off, it will eat the copper very quickly, especially lead-free as it has quite an affinity for copper. Regardless of the solder used, you'll notice pitting if this is the case.

Farnell carries it (here).
CPC carries the Multicore branded stuff, and is less expensive (here).

And although there's a size difference (Weller is 25g, while the Multicore is 15g), the Multicore still comes out cheaper per gram.

[yngndrw]

Yes, for the T245 it seems to be the default option now,
because the last time I orderd a T245 without the grip
and received one with the new thermal insulator grip
already attached.

That's interesting, they seem to accept it as an issue but there's no mention of the issue on the T245-A handle - I would have expected them to discontinue it or something.

But for the T210 handle a thermal insulator grip is not
realy necessary, I use them both and the T210 stays cool.

The T210 is mainly for SMD work, so I use only very
small cartridges and I set the standby delay time for
this handle to 0 seconds and the off delay to
60 seconds.

The heatup time from room temperature to 320 degrees
with a T210 handle is under 2 seconds and from
180 degrees standby temperature to 320 degrees
under one second.
This thing is unbelivable fast, with no overshoot.

Good to know, gives me some confidence that if I manage to find a set of JBC desoldering tweezers at a good price I won't have the heat issues. Hopefully I'd get the same sort of performance with one of the DIY power supplies for it.

FWIW, 8AWG is too large for that iron, regardless of tip. Just not enough mass IME (I've an NTD from Japan).

I even made the mistake of lending it to a family member and it came back as you described (he was using it to solder 10AWG).  In this case, the black stuff was flux that was literally burnt to a crisp. Fortunately, a bit of Weller tip tinner/activator fixed it (T0051303199). It does an excellent job of cleaning off this sort of crap and rejuvenate otherwise dead tips (dried flux + solder powder). Just turn on the iron, let it come to temp, and roll it about in the tin a couple of times. When done, they come out bright & shiny again. 

If the plating has actually come off, it will eat the copper very quickly, especially lead-free as it has quite an affinity for copper. Regardless of the solder used, you'll notice pitting if this is the case.

Farnell carries it (here).
CPC carries the Multicore branded stuff, and is less expensive (here).

And although there's a size difference (Weller is 25g, while the Multicore is 15g), the Multicore still comes out cheaper per gram.

Yea I figured that tip was a long shot but thought I'd give it a try as I had already ordered it. As I say it just about managed the joint with a little persuasion but I guess the amount of heat I was putting through it was just too much. I didn't notice any sort of pitting under the microscope so you might be right that it's just burnt on flux. I'll give the tip tinner a try, I should probably have a tub anyway. Thanks.

[SteveyG]

Fortunately, a bit of Weller tip tinner/activator fixed it (T0051303199). It does an excellent job of cleaning off this sort of crap and rejuvenate otherwise dead tips (dried flux + solder powder). Just turn on the iron, let it come to temp, and roll it about in the tin a couple of times. When done, they come out bright & shiny again. 

That stuff is an absolute last resort though as it's incredibly active. Usually you use it when there's no other option, but the tips are generally toast after that.

[yngndrw]

That stuff is an absolute last resort though as it's incredibly active. Usually you use it when there's no other option, but the tips are generally toast after that.

Thanks I'll keep that in mind, will first try again to clean it off without the tip tinner and otherwise there's no harm in trying it as the tip is in a really bad state right now.

[nanofrog]

That stuff is an absolute last resort though as it's incredibly active. Usually you use it when there's no other option, but the tips are generally toast after that.

Thanks I'll keep that in mind, will first try again to clean it off without the tip tinner and otherwise there's no harm in trying it as the tip is in a really bad state right now.

If you've some acetone, you might want to give that a try (didn't have any at the time I used the tip tinner on my NTD tip).

Even if you do have to resort to the tinner/activator, rinse it off good on a clean, damp sponge (then rinse the sponge out with distilled or deionized water*).

* Didn't mention this before, but I should have.  Not a bad idea to rinse the tip with the solder alloy to be used afterward as well (tin it over and over, cleaning it on a sponge or brass wool in-between each time).

[yngndrw]

If you've some acetone, you might want to give that a try (didn't have any at the time I used the tip tinner on my NTD tip).

Even if you do have to resort to the tinner/activator, rinse it off good on a clean, damp sponge (then rinse the sponge out with distilled or deionized water*).

* Didn't mention this before, but I should have.  Not a bad idea to rinse the tip with the solder alloy to be used afterward as well (tin it over and over, cleaning it on a sponge or brass wool in-between each time).

Sadly I don't have any acetone to hand but might get some as well. I might also try my 0.5mm lead free solder as it's higher quality and has more flux than the 0.3mm solder I've been using. I also have a flux pen which might help remove some of the baked-on stuff.

Was going to re-tin afterwards but didn't realise it should be rinsed off first so I'll be sure to do that. Thanks.

[ajb]

If I may piggy-back on the thread, I was looking at the JBC micro tweezers, but I don't see a specification for range of motion.  Is it possible to use them for 0402 through 1206 (or even 2512) without having to adjust the tips? 

Regarding JBC iron handles getting hot, they seem to have addressed the issue and ship new stations with the T245-C thermal insulator handle instead of the T245-A. Even the cheap "analog" BT-2BWA got this upgrade.

[yngndrw]

If I may piggy-back on the thread, I was looking at the JBC micro tweezers, but I don't see a specification for range of motion.  Is it possible to use them for 0402 through 1206 (or even 2512) without having to adjust the tips?

That's a good question, I hadn't considered this at all. From pictures of their SOIC tips it looks like they have had to add internal shoulders which suggests that the movement range is quite limited: http://cet.hu/uploads/termekek/jbc_c120009.jpg

I would have suspected that the small passives that you mentioned would all all be fine with the same set of tips as they are all quite similar in size, even the 2512 is only 6.3 mm long. This is only an assumption, mind.

[RobertHolcombe]

The PA-120 open to ~8mm maximum, and can close until the tips contact each other, so yes they can handle chip components up to 2512 no problem. Tip alignment when using the conical tips is not critical unless you are working on extremely small components, and when using the tips designed for SOT/DIL/SOIC the alignment needs to be precise to match the geometry of the component leads.

Regarding the "shoulders" as yngndrw called them; the cartridges can simply be swapped around so the shoulders are on the outside, the handpiece and station while smart, is not smart enough to know what orientation they are in

[ajb]

Excellent, that's what I was hoping to hear, thanks!

[Sigmoid]

Well, I grew up on a Weller, and spent years with one... Then when I moved back to Europe, I got super pissed over how ridiculously overpriced their 230V units are in comparison with the 110V ones (as if the things were priced per Volt!), so I bought an analog dial JBC from Weidinger.

And man, does this thing blow everything I've seen from Weller clean out of the water. It's playing in a completely different league.

[Dago]

Well, I grew up on a Weller, and spent years with one... Then when I moved back to Europe, I got super pissed over how ridiculously overpriced their 230V units are in comparison with the 110V ones (as if the things were priced per Volt!), so I bought an analog dial JBC from Weidinger.

And man, does this thing blow everything I've seen from Weller clean out of the water. It's playing in a completely different league.

Completely agree, we have Weller stuff at work (WXMP etc.) and they're a pain to use compared to my own JBC equipment.

[yngndrw]

That's the first real mention of the WXMP irons that I've heard so it's interesting to hear that you're unhappy with it - What is it that you dislike about it ?


Tip tinner worked wonders on my broken Weller tip so thanks for that suggestion. It's as good as new now.


I've finally received the final part of my Metcal setup (Was held up in customs for what seems like forever) so I've now had a chance to use it. It's a lot more powerful than the WMP that's for sure. I wasn't sure on what temperature tip to use so I got a set to try:

• STTC-045 - Too cold for my liking, even with leaded solder it takes forever to melt so I'm not sure what this is intended for. Also having a long straight conical tip doesn't seem to make sense, it doesn't seem to fit anything quite right.
• STTC-138P - Works great for both PTH and SMD. A nice temperature and the size is good for both, could possibly go with a slightly smaller size. I've always liked a good chisel.
• STTC-836 - I wasn't sure what to try this on so I soldered some coins together. Took a short while to heat the coins up but it managed it and I was able to easily solder them together. I have no doubt that this would be great for soldering large (12AWG+) cables.

I was concerned with how big the MX-H1-AV iron would be as I really like the size of the WMP. It turns out that the MX-H1-AV is almost exactly the same sizing as the WMP which is great. (See attached) Metcal also do a smaller iron which might be even nicer. The MX-H1-AV's cable is very flexible but it's a little heavy compared to the WMP's cable so it's constantly pulling against you. I did also notice that the base (Cable end) of the iron heats up in use, where the tip's connector is located. It doesn't heat up to the point where it would be a problem but it's just something I noticed - Is this normal ?


So over-all I'm really happy with it, just need to work out what tip would suit me best. I may pick up a bent-conical tip, a smaller chisel and a small hoof. (All in the STTC-1** temperature series)

Thanks all for your advice and experiences.

[SteveyG]

I did also notice that the base (Cable end) of the iron heats up in use, where the tip's connector is located. It doesn't heat up to the point where it would be a problem but it's just something I noticed - Is this normal ?

I've never noticed this, I'll check tonight though. I can post a side-by-side of the two Metcal handpieces if you're interested in size.

Steve

[KJDS]

I've recently been using WXMPs at work and there's nothing wrong with them. Similarly I've no problem with Metcal or JBC.

Whilst they do have their own peculiarites, the tip cost for the WXMP is extortionate and unlike metcal I've never seen cheapies on ebay, it's been more than happy to do anything from 0201 up to solding RF connectors to boards.

[yngndrw]

I've never noticed this, I'll check tonight though. I can post a side-by-side of the two Metcal handpieces if you're interested in size.

I think the smaller handpiece would be affected more by the heavy cable (Unless they use a different cable ?) but it would be really interesting to see the comparison.

[blacksheeplogic]

I've recently been using WXMPs at work and there's nothing wrong with them. Similarly I've no problem with Metcal or JBC.  Whilst they do have their own peculiarites, the tip cost for the WXMP is extortionate and unlike metcal I've never seen cheapies on ebay, it's been more than happy to do anything from 0201 up to solding RF connectors to boards.

+1  The irons are very capable, it's a matter of selecting the right hand piece and tip for the job.

[nukie]

I use the JBC T245 regularly I don't find the handle too hot to handle, maybe a little warm during summer they are perfect for winter.

For heavy duty jobs I always go to my cheapo 200W fire sticks. They work real well for soldering thick slab copper and etc. You can get them from eBay.

Antex makes some very nice 325w, 500w industrial irons. They are UK made if I am not wrong. Perfect for your location.

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/industrial-power-irons/

[chucksticks]

I've recently been using WXMPs at work and there's nothing wrong with them. Similarly I've no problem with Metcal or JBC.

Whilst they do have their own peculiarites, the tip cost for the WXMP is extortionate and unlike metcal I've never seen cheapies on ebay, it's been more than happy to do anything from 0201 up to solding RF connectors to boards.

Why do you think that the wxmp tips are more pricey than the JBC? is this in terms of price/performance? From what I've seen, JBC's tips are usually around $45 or more while wxmp's tips go for 25-40$. The wxmp tips seem alot easier if not the easiest to hot swap.. This is a big point for me if I were paying for the JBC stuff at its price level:


It seems like the heater and the temp sensor are embedded in the tips so I think it's on par with the pricing. Also, I'd think its performance would be similar to the JBC's precision/nano irons.

The weller wxmp looks decently quick to heat also compared to the JBC:


It seems like there's a lack of videos showcasing the performance of the wxmp's 

I wouldn't compare it against Metcal because I'd like to be able to adjust temp. w/o swapping and buying extra tips; if you have to buy multiple tips for different temp's, wouldn't the overall cost be more anyways?

[nanofrog]

Why do you think that the wxmp tips are more pricey than the JBC?

EU/UK pricing has a tendency to be different than that of the US. Product availability likely plays a part too. For example the WX stuff is recent, so not a lot of it in the supply chain, while the JBC C-245 & C-210 cartridges have been around for awhile.

if you have to buy multiple tips for different temp's, wouldn't the overall cost be more anyways?

Yes.

[KJDS]

I've still got a pile of JBC tips that I've picked up in bankrupt auctions, so have a lifetimes supply of them. They're also often available on the grey market. That's not the case with the Wellers.

With regard to Metcal, indeed for any iron, it's rare that I change the temperature. Generally if I need more heat then I use a bigger tip.

[yngndrw]

On the subject of Metcal's lack of temperature control, I've been using mine for a while now and can't say I've really missed it.

I've been using a STTC-126 tip for pretty much everything and it has worked great. I did notice that once I went to using decent solder it is a little hotter than it needs to be, but it just means I have to wait slightly longer for it to set before moving my tweezers.

I've soldered from 0402 resistors right up to SMA connectors and even pennies with the same tip and temperature with no issue. It can be a little scary with how much heat it can put into traces though. For example I made a h-bridge board with some thick 2oz traces, no thermal relief (I wanted the lowest resistance I could get - I hate thermal reliefs) and was soldering a large SMD sense resistor to it. The joint soldered perfectly in a couple of seconds with no real difference to the smaller components, but when I went to pick up the board the entire ground plane was too hot to touch - Not something I've had to worry about with my previous irons !

It has been a bit of an eye-opener I have to say.

[MaximRecoil]

I've been using a STTC-126 tip for pretty much everything and it has worked great.

The STTC-126 is the greatest thing since aerosol cheese. During the 2 years that I worked in a PCB factory in the late 1990s, I soldered approximately 4 million joints with STTC-126 tip cartridges; I used it for most everything there, and in the 10 years since buying my own Metcal, I've used it for most everything at home.

A couple of years ago I asked my friend Jennifer, who still works there, about what they were using for solder and tips these days:

We use the STTC-126 for both leaded and unleaded solder. That is the most popular tip, but we use a variety. We haven't gone completely lead-free yet and we're not going to!

[yngndrw]

aerosol cheese

[KJDS]

aerosol cheese

I'm familiar with knob cheese, but have fortunately never found any of the aerosol variety

[MaximRecoil]

aerosol cheese

I'm familiar with knob cheese, but have fortunately never found any of the aerosol variety

Easy Cheese is the trademark for a processed cheese product distributed by Mondel?z International, also referred to as aerosol cheese, spray cheese or simply Cheese in a Can, and is a descendant of squeeze cheese (a semi-solid cheesefood from the 1970s packaged in a squeezable plastic tube). It comes packaged in a pressurized can, much like canned whipped cream and does not require refrigeration. Easy Cheese has its own entry in Sterns' Encyclopedia of Bad Taste.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easy_Cheese

[GreyWoolfe]

I was a sales rep for Nabisco in New Jersey back in the 80's.  We used to call Easy Cheese Sleazy Cheese because of the potential fun one can have with one's significant other and the consuming of said product off of various body parts.