Suggestions Hakko FX-100 vs metcal MX500 or MX5200

[coerrace]

I think is time to change my soldering station and I wanted to ask suggestions about what could be best to buy between a Hakko FX-100 or a Metcal MX 500 or 5200.

I saw some information and I see appears the Hakko does similar kind of induction than metcal and also you can use the metcal hands with tips on hakko. I want to select also the best choice in variety of tips and upgrade factors. Also what could be the best option long lasting and with great quality and performance. The price always is important but in the case the best option is a little more expensive in general (with tips, accessories and so on)  is not important really considering the best option is worth the price.

[zapta]

The MX500 is long lasting because its schematic is available and it's is made with 'discrete' off the shelf ICs (that is, no MCU, firmware, etc).

http://scopetechniques.com/Metcal/MX-500P-11.pdf

[helius]

The MX500 is long lasting because its schematic is available and it's is made with 'discrete' off the shelf ICs (that is, no MCU, firmware, etc).

That's the old MX-500. The new MX-500 is MCU controlled.

[coerrace]

Then is more suggested the metcal better than the hakko fx 100?

[zapta]

Then is more suggested the metcal better than the hakko fx 100?

I don't recall anybody here reporting on the fx 100 so there is not enough data to compare.

The metcal has a large selection of cartridges, from both Metcal and thermaltronics (a spin off of ex Metcal employees).

Since you are in the US, you can have good deal on used Metcals on ebay (I got a used MX500 power supply from ebay and a new handpiece and stand from Amazon).  E.g. this one (too good to be true?)   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metcal-MX-500P-11-2-Port-SMT-Soldering-Rework-Station-2-Wands-/131962445716?hash=item1eb9931f94:g:nlIAAOSwLnBX5IOT

[coerrace]

Yes I see that the FX-100 I don't see so much information just some reviews from buyers in amazon and other stores and they say is great but is limited. I saw also some people want to plug the FX-100 tips in metcal and honestly I don't know what special things have the tips of FX-100 because looking the tips for soldering and rework for metcal like you mention there are a lot and I think there is no need to plug a FX-100 in metcal maybe people want to do that for the price only.

I will go for metcal.

[helius]

The Hakko FX-100 and Metcal stations use the same basic technology and their handpieces are compatible (they both use coaxial F connectors). The shapes of the tips differ: the Hakko FX-1001 handpiece fits T31 series tips, while the Metcal RM3E fits STTC series tips. To use Hakko tips on a Metcal station you need an FX-1001, which costs about $100.

[zapta]

The model I have is their bottom of the line MFR1100 series, 60W 450kHz model. I think this is a wonderful soldering iron, way better than me previous Weller WES51.

The ease of changing tips is a great advantage IMO. With the WES51 I rarely changed tips because of the hassle.

[coerrace]

Yes I see that metcal sounds very good and there are a lot of options and tips including for reworking.

About this:

The Hakko FX-100 and Metcal stations use the same basic technology and their handpieces are compatible (they both use coaxial F connectors). The shapes of the tips differ: the Hakko FX-1001 handpiece fits T31 series tips, while the Metcal RM3E fits STTC series tips. To use Hakko tips on a Metcal station you need an FX-1001, which costs about $100.

I understand Hakko FX-100 tips can be used in metcal with the FX-1001 but just a simple question is there any big advantage in Hakko FX-100 Tips to justify the buy of a FX-1001? I ask because I see a very big catalog of tips on metcal and I don´t understand what reason could be in buy a FX-1001 if metcal has everything.

[GreyWoolfe]

I can't help on the FX-100 as I have the FX-951, but I do have a MX500.  Very nice piece of equipment.  If you can score one, you will enjoy using it.

[coerrace]

Yes metcal is the rule I looked everywhere and appears very solid.

I was trying to catch one MX500 but looking I found one option of 5200 with tweezers and the price is almost the same than the MX 500 but for the 5200 of course new with twezers. If I buy all by separate for the 500 cross the line of the offer with the 5200 including twezers. The thing is about the space I see the 5200 is a little bigger than 500 but is a great deal if I take the 5200 instead the 500 I guess or not? Or is bigger and uncomfortable to use the 5200?

And another question a hot air only station suggested what could be or brand I was looking one tenma and it has excellent reviews. For the hot air is not necessary an excepcional brand that is the reason I want the metcal the hot air i just want to use like a backup in special occasions.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I wouldn't bother with tweezers- two irons, one in each hand, is much more useable for removing chip parts ( obviously needs a dual output PSU like the 5200), and also means you have a spare iron.

[coerrace]

Excellent I will order the 5200 and twezers now and some tips.

Thank you for the orientation if someone knows an acceptable hot air station would be great hear suggestions.

[nanofrog]

...[snip]...if someone knows an acceptable hot air station would be great hear suggestions.

You might also want to take a look at a Quick 861DW (1kW, digital interface w/ lots of features). Very comparable to a Hakko FR-810, but at a fraction of the price ($235), and it even has an intuitive UI (unlike the Hakko  ). And it's well built.

Plenty of info here in the forum, including photos (other models are the 861DS and 861DA for the EU & UK markets respectively; all that changes is the transformer & power cord).

[coerrace]

...[snip]...if someone knows an acceptable hot air station would be great hear suggestions.

You might also want to take a look at a Quick 861DW (1kW, digital interface w/ lots of features). Very comparable to a Hakko FR-810, but at a fraction of the price ($235), and it even has an intuitive UI (unlike the Hakko  ). And it's well built.

Plenty of info here in the forum, including photos (other models are the 861DS and 861DA for the EU & UK markets respectively; all that changes is the transformer & power cord).

Looks very interesting for the price I was looking the Tenma 21-10125 but 1kw in the Quick 861DW and that price is worth to test honestly. And I see also the Quick has a lot of nozzles for desoldering and reworking wow. Nice tip!!!

[nanofrog]

Looks very interesting for the price I was looking the Tenma 21-10125 but 1kw in the Quick 861DW and that price is worth to test honestly. And I see also the Quick has a lot of nozzles for desoldering and reworking wow. Nice tip!!!

You're welcome. 

FWIW, Tenma is a brand name owned by Farnell (Newark/Element 14 in the US, and also own MCM here in the states), and it's lowest bidder type of stuff. Not that it doesn't have it's place, but I wouldn't call it anywhere near top quality. For disclosure, I own a Tenma branded hot air preheater; does what I need on the rare occasions I have to pull it off the shelf. But for a primary tool, look elsewhere IMHO.

As per the nozzles for the Quick 861, they're friction fit rather than screw clamp. Makes it a lot easier & quicker to romove (tool built into the stand). But you will need a silicone rubber pad to install different ones when the unit is running/hot IME. Unfortunately this isn't included, but at least they're inexpensive (i.e. Hakko B2300). 

You'll also find the 3 nozzles included in the 861 will cover just about any job you have. In fact, making or purchasing shields/protectors from thin sheet metal will do better than specialty nozzles IME (ready-made protectors by JBC); especially on tightly packed PCB's. JBC also makes vacuum tripods and protectors with vacuum plungers attached (extractors), so a modified aquarium pump will lift the chip once it's been desoldered.

They're ^ not cheap, but not horrendous either (though if you need a lot, they will add up, just as tips do; but at least they don't wear out  ). For example, the shields/protectors run ~$20 per, extractors ~$40 per, and the stand-alone tripods that straddle the shield/protectors ~$45 per (the legs rotate around the shaft, so are flexible regarding placement).

[coerrace]

Now I found thermaltronics tips supposed for metcal also but cheaper this is real? Same quality of tips from metcal? What I was reading about thermaltronics that was founded by old employees of metcal. But what you think of thermaltronics tips? The tips has the same quality of metcal or is suggested go with metcal brand?

[zapta]

Now I found thermaltronics tips supposed for metcal also but cheaper this is real? Same quality of tips from metcal? What I was reading about thermaltronics that was founded by old employees of metcal. But what you think of thermaltronics tips? The tips has the same quality of metcal or is suggested go with metcal brand?

One of my tips is from thetmaltronics and as far as I can tell it works just as well. My subjective opinion is that they are on par with Metcal.

Their claim for fame is a color mark on the cartridge that inductes the temperature group of that tip. They even got a patent for this trivial 'innovation' in China.

[mikeselectricstuff]

The two tips I use 90% of the time are Thermaltronics and I can't remember when I last changed either - must be at least a couple of years of daily use

Their version of the SMTC-1147 is better than Metcal's as it has sharper corners, making it good for getting right up to the joints when reflowing QFNs - you can actually drag-solder QFNs with it if the pads come out about 0.5mm or so from the package outline.
 
 

[GreyWoolfe]

2 of my tips are Thermaltronics and they work just the same as the Metcal tips.  Try to look up forum member denbo32, he has offered EEVBloggers discounts in the past on the Thermaltronics tips.

[coerrace]

2 of my tips are Thermaltronics and they work just the same as the Metcal tips.  Try to look up forum member denbo32, he has offered EEVBloggers discounts in the past on the Thermaltronics tips.

Thank you

[Dubbie]

I have the same Metcal as Blueskull. When I got it, it was like every soldering job got 10x easier. And the 5 second startup from cold is amazing!


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[chucksticks]

This article was the most helpful to me regarding the FX-100:
http://www.stratesysgroup.com/HakkoFX100.html

It's advertised there that hakko's fx100 is better than the metcal stuff.

Cold start time can be seen here:
https://youtu.be/sj5NLW52TFU?t=44s
Between FX-100's approx. 7secs and metcal's 4secs start time, I'd not sure that it matters as most of the time I won't need to be ready to solder something that fast from cold start.

I'm too looking in the market for a more advanced soldering system for my R&D type projects but I've about settled on getting a temperature adjustable iron since I want to run my stuff at lower temp's (around 300C or less; especially if I have a preheater system). I've been looking around for as much info. on the fx-100 as I could and I'll tell you there's not much out there. From what I've gathered, I think the FX-100 is about 2 years old. They should have something up their sleeves for trying to enter the curie point iron market so late.

The tips are nicely priced and with decent variety, ranging from 0.1mm conical to 4.5mm knife and 2.8mm 'hoof' bevel:
https://www.hakkousa.com/products/soldering-iron-tips/t31-series-fx-100.html
The metcal's have more tips I believe and at more temperatures (particularly going as low as 315C) but you can put in requests to hakko for new tip designs if they don't have the ones you need already.

As for my experience, I've never touched a hakko iron before but I've used a metcal ps-5200 at work. Like some people have said, it's like a tank. The power supply's body is full metal. The iron's themselves are very lightweight (aluminum I think) and hollow but the cable is heavier and can drag it down. It can be unnerving to hot swap tips as it's driving alot of power  and I can feel it get too hot very fast through the silicone pads.

[Someone]

It can be unnerving to hot swap tips as it's driving alot of power  and I can feel it get too hot very fast through the silicone pads.

Turn it off when changing tips!

1. Make sure the system is turned off.
2. Pull out the cartridge using the Cartridge Removal Pad (MX-CP1). NOTE:
THE TIP CARTRIDGE MAY BE HOT. DO NOT USE METAL TOOLS
(PLIERS, ETC) TO REMOVE CARTRIDGES!
3. Push a new cartridge into the handle.
4. Place hand-piece(s) into associated work stand(s).
5. Push the power switch “ON”. The new cartridge will heat up to temperature
quickly.

[coerrace]

This article was the most helpful to me regarding the FX-100:
http://www.stratesysgroup.com/HakkoFX100.html

It's advertised there that hakko's fx100 is better than the metcal stuff.

Cold start time can be seen here:
https://youtu.be/sj5NLW52TFU?t=44s
Between FX-100's approx. 7secs and metcal's 4secs start time, I'd not sure that it matters as most of the time I won't need to be ready to solder something that fast from cold start.

I'm too looking in the market for a more advanced soldering system for my R&D type projects but I've about settled on getting a temperature adjustable iron since I want to run my stuff at lower temp's (around 300C or less; especially if I have a preheater system). I've been looking around for as much info. on the fx-100 as I could and I'll tell you there's not much out there. From what I've gathered, I think the FX-100 is about 2 years old. They should have something up their sleeves for trying to enter the curie point iron market so late.

The tips are nicely priced and with decent variety, ranging from 0.1mm conical to 4.5mm knife and 2.8mm 'hoof' bevel:
https://www.hakkousa.com/products/soldering-iron-tips/t31-series-fx-100.html
The metcal's have more tips I believe and at more temperatures (particularly going as low as 315C) but you can put in requests to hakko for new tip designs if they don't have the ones you need already.

As for my experience, I've never touched a hakko iron before but I've used a metcal ps-5200 at work. Like some people have said, it's like a tank. The power supply's body is full metal. The iron's themselves are very lightweight (aluminum I think) and hollow but the cable is heavier and can drag it down. It can be unnerving to hot swap tips as it's driving alot of power  and I can feel it get too hot very fast through the silicone pads.

Yes I'm nervous waiting my metcal I bought the same like yours with twezers and yes there are a lot of tips/cartridges and with thermaltronics much better. I saw in thermaltronics one tip of .1mm without the need of the MX-H2-UF and I see also that between thermaltronics and metcal companies together there are a lot of options and there is no need to look elsewhere if you have a metcal.