thread maker tool

[rob77]

Now you can argue all you want but have a look at this set for instance which in dutch clearly states "first, middle and last tick" which is exactly how you should use them in tough material

And taper, plug, and bottoming taps are commonly refirst to as first, second, and last taps. I think you'll find all three of those are exactly the same past the first ten threads at most.

my last comment on this... HERE IN EUROPE we have a set of 3 tools for manual taping. each of the FREAKING TOOLS HAS A DIFFERENT DIAMETER AND DIFFERENT SHAPE OF THE CUTTING GROOVE ! each tool is cutting deeper into the walls of the hole as the previous one. end of the discussion.

either accept it or not, i don't give a rat's ass anymore.

[sync]

my last comment on this... HERE IN EUROPE we have a set of 3 tools for manual taping. each of the FREAKING TOOLS HAS A DIFFERENT DIAMETER AND DIFFERENT SHAPE OF THE CUTTING GROOVE ! each tool is cutting deeper into the walls of the hole as the previous one. end of the discussion.

Exactly. Look at the graphic. The first tap only cuts about 55% of the thread. The middle 80%. So you have to use always the final one.

[Kjelt]

Now you can argue all you want but have a look at this set for instance which in dutch clearly states "first, middle and last tick" which is exactly how you should use them in tough material

And taper, plug, and bottoming taps are commonly refirst to as first, second, and last taps. I think you'll find all three of those are exactly the same past the first ten threads at most.

Yes I know what a bottoming tap is, it is used for a hole that is not all the way through and you want the tap to go as deep as possible. Therefore the underside of a bottoming tap is pretty flat. Can you see a flat bottom on the taps in my link? No you can't because they are NOT bottoming taps period.
Look at the shapes for pete sake!
And as Rob says over and over again and I second , these taps each cut a tiny bit deeper in the side of the material and the tap is only complete after the last (third) tap has been used.

And another thing look at the rings, why do you think these sets have ring markings on them? Because you can not easily see the difference between the three. With you tapering and bottom taps the difference is pretty obvious so you don't need any marking.

[Andy Watson]

1) aluminium is soft enough to force a M3 screw into a 2.7mm hole without prior tapping.

If you want to be a bodger

2)  If it gets too tough reverse out to remove debris and try again.

I think it's already been mention but it's best to pre-empt the "getting too tough" bit by cutting for say a half-turn, then reverse for a half turn to break the chips. If you get to the stage where the chip has taken up all the space in the flute it's already too late, you will struggle to get the tap in or out.

5) How on earth do you drill a perfect 2.5 mm hole? I have a drill press, but am not sure it will cut a good hole, I mean the drill bit has to be perfect, the drill chuck perfectly balanced we are talking Rolls Royce engine quality needed here else it will be a triangular and larger than needed hole, am I right?

See 4 - buy decent drill bits.

[Monkeh]

Now you can argue all you want but have a look at this set for instance which in dutch clearly states "first, middle and last tick" which is exactly how you should use them in tough material

And taper, plug, and bottoming taps are commonly refirst to as first, second, and last taps. I think you'll find all three of those are exactly the same past the first ten threads at most.

my last comment on this... HERE IN EUROPE we have a set of 3 tools for manual taping. each of the FREAKING TOOLS HAS A DIFFERENT DIAMETER AND DIFFERENT SHAPE OF THE CUTTING GROOVE ! each tool is cutting deeper into the walls of the hole as the previous one. end of the discussion.

either accept it or not, i don't give a rat's ass anymore.

By Europe's definition, I'm in Europe. And those taps are not commonly available or used, because they're a thorough waste of time in normal materials. You have slightly odd taps, and nobody else uses them for normal work.

Please try and give relevant advice and not get so pissed off when people point out that reality is different. You're like a yank with their stubborn insistence on imperial measurements..

[ElektroQuark]

I'm in Europe too (Spain). Here we use the same tools as rob77 says.

[deth502]

Perhaps Europe differs from the US but I must agree with Rob77 on his statements on his three part tap set.

They are for manual tapping only (not machine tapping where you have a single tap) and for difficult tough material (think steel not alu which is soft).
Now you can argue all you want but have a look at this set for instance which in dutch clearly states "first, middle and last tick" which is exactly how you should use them in tough material, because if you wanted to do it with a one tap turn only it would break or you had to drill the hole larger then ideally so it will not fit as good as should. Have a good look at their start shape, they all are definitely not for bottoming.

http://www.tools2go.nl/9157016/3-delig-m3-x-0-5-tap-set?gclid=CPyPq_jhgL8CFaQIwwod62IA_Q

That said, for aluminium you can just use a machine tap or one time tap, no problemo.

well, ill concede. all 3 of those sure do seem to be the same taper. i have never seen anything like that in the us. ive seen undrsize taps for tighter tolerances, oversized taps for the opposite reason, and many, many different styles of specialty taps, but never ones that opened a thread up in steps that needed to be used in order.

[akis]

my last comment on this... HERE IN EUROPE we have a set of 3 tools for manual taping. each of the FREAKING TOOLS HAS A DIFFERENT DIAMETER AND DIFFERENT SHAPE OF THE CUTTING GROOVE ! each tool is cutting deeper into the walls of the hole as the previous one. end of the discussion.

Exactly. Look at the graphic. The first tap only cuts about 55% of the thread. The middle 80%. So you have to use always the final one.

Now, wait a minute. I only bought one tool. Which is it? Noone here mentioned that 3 passes are needed to create the correct depth and shape of thread. Doh!

[rob77]

Now, wait a minute. I only bought one tool. Which is it? Noone here mentioned that 3 passes are needed to create the correct depth and shape of thread. Doh!

your tool is a single pass tool - cutting 100% at once.

[rob77]

Perhaps Europe differs from the US but I must agree with Rob77 on his statements on his three part tap set.

They are for manual tapping only (not machine tapping where you have a single tap) and for difficult tough material (think steel not alu which is soft).
Now you can argue all you want but have a look at this set for instance which in dutch clearly states "first, middle and last tick" which is exactly how you should use them in tough material, because if you wanted to do it with a one tap turn only it would break or you had to drill the hole larger then ideally so it will not fit as good as should. Have a good look at their start shape, they all are definitely not for bottoming.

http://www.tools2go.nl/9157016/3-delig-m3-x-0-5-tap-set?gclid=CPyPq_jhgL8CFaQIwwod62IA_Q

That said, for aluminium you can just use a machine tap or one time tap, no problemo.

well, ill concede. all 3 of those sure do seem to be the same taper. i have never seen anything like that in the us. ive seen undrsize taps for tighter tolerances, oversized taps for the opposite reason, and many, many different styles of specialty taps, but never ones that opened a thread up in steps that needed to be used in order.

those are pretty common in europe ( ok some UK guys are not aware of them as well) you introduce less stress to the material while cutting the thread, your manually tapped thread is more precise and last but not least - it's less effort to cut in 3 steps than cutting 100% of the thread at once (it's a killer feature for larger diameters and tough materials).

[mrflibble]

my last comment on this... HERE IN EUROPE we have a set of 3 tools for manual taping. each of the FREAKING TOOLS HAS A DIFFERENT DIAMETER AND DIFFERENT SHAPE OF THE CUTTING GROOVE ! each tool is cutting deeper into the walls of the hole as the previous one. end of the discussion.

either accept it or not, i don't give a rat's ass anymore.

Without getting into the discussion of what should and should not be ... I have a set for hand tapping exactly as rob77 describes. And it works very well thank you very much. What I like about the progressively deeper cuts ... even a n00b like me manages to tap without breaking anything. That and, the resulting thread is actually pretty good. So works for me.

[WarSim]

Perhaps Europe differs from the US but I must agree with Rob77 on his statements on his three part tap set.

They are for manual tapping only (not machine tapping where you have a single tap) and for difficult tough material (think steel not alu which is soft).
Now you can argue all you want but have a look at this set for instance which in dutch clearly states "first, middle and last tick" which is exactly how you should use them in tough material, because if you wanted to do it with a one tap turn only it would break or you had to drill the hole larger then ideally so it will not fit as good as should. Have a good look at their start shape, they all are definitely not for bottoming.

http://www.tools2go.nl/9157016/3-delig-m3-x-0-5-tap-set?gclid=CPyPq_jhgL8CFaQIwwod62IA_Q

That said, for aluminium you can just use a machine tap or one time tap, no problemo.

well, ill concede. all 3 of those sure do seem to be the same taper. i have never seen anything like that in the us. ive seen undrsize taps for tighter tolerances, oversized taps for the opposite reason, and many, many different styles of specialty taps, but never ones that opened a thread up in steps that needed to be used in order.

those are pretty common in europe ( ok some UK guys are not aware of them as well) you introduce less stress to the material while cutting the thread, your manually tapped thread is more precise and last but not least - it's less effort to cut in 3 steps than cutting 100% of the thread at once (it's a killer feature for larger diameters and tough materials).

When reading you first post I recognized what you explained but had difficulty remembering where I ran into it.  Looking up the information for confirmation was leading nowhere. 
I finally figured out where I saw them.  When a group of British people can here to Canada for equipment support they used a three pass tap set.  It was for a M16 hole onto hardened steal. 
That was the only time I ever saw a 3 pass tap set.  I just assume it was because it was hardened steel and the cut face was too large for a single pass.  I never knew that they make 3 pass taps with such small cutting surfaces.  Interesting.  Since then I have never seen a multi pass tap set.  Looks like they are uncommon in North America. 
On the other hand I have seen a few large multi pass bar stock press dies since.  So they must be here on this side of the world for some reasons

Thanks for sharing


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[sleemanj]

You guys are buying single tap sizes for doing a couple of holes, in aluminium, for hobby purposes?

Sheesh.  Walk down to your local hardware store, pick up a cheap tap and die set.

[rob77]

You guys are buying single tap sizes for doing a couple of holes, in aluminium, for hobby purposes?

Sheesh.  Walk down to your local hardware store, pick up a cheap tap and die set.

actually, i got a set of taps - even including the matching drill bits but i simply don't like the single pass taps - better results and less effort with the 3 pass ones. i bought that set some time ago, just to have other sizes handy (usually i need only M3 and M4 - so i got a 3 pass sets for those)

[SeanB]

Hand tapping a 3 part set works well in most common materials. If you are doing work hardening material like 316l stainless then you go and buy a proper tap and use a power tapping driver with the right lubricant and lube feed to do your hole in a single pass. I have a few taps that are used in assorted applications, the worst is into cast iron, where you have very hard inclusions. Worst metal is an incolel allot casting, which is so hard that you do not tap it, just either spark erode a hole or use a surface milling machine to finish a surface.

If you break a tap in a blind hole often the only way to get it out is to spark erode it out with a copper rod and a good flow of coolant.

[akis]

You mean copper melts at higher degrees than almost any iron so you melt the iron using copper as the heat conduit? This is how they make anti-tank missiles.

[G7PSK]

For tapping holes in thin sheet or sections you only need a taper tap second taps and plug taps are only required for blind holes. Taps used in machines like laths etc usually have a reversed twist in them like a drill bit but the opposite direction in order to clear chips, You can use these by hands but they are harder to start which is where the taper on the first part of a taper tap comes in.

[neslekkim]

4. a decent drill press shouldn't have more than 0,05mm eccentricity  so no problem. if your drill press has more, then a good trick is to use smaller drill bit - e.g. 2,4mm one to get a 2,5mm hole

What is the correct drillsizes for the various holes?, I'm looking for an tapset for m3, but there are mentioned 2.5mm and 2.7mm here?
Found this seller that have various taps etc for decent prices as compared to what I have found here in Norway http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/ukdrills/m.html
In normal shops here I only find the one pass tools, not three pass ones, which I think maybe would be easier to use also?

[KJDS]

4. a decent drill press shouldn't have more than 0,05mm eccentricity  so no problem. if your drill press has more, then a good trick is to use smaller drill bit - e.g. 2,4mm one to get a 2,5mm hole

What is the correct drillsizes for the various holes?, I'm looking for an tapset for m3, but there are mentioned 2.5mm and 2.7mm here?
Found this seller that have various taps etc for decent prices as compared to what I have found here in Norway http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/ukdrills/m.html
In normal shops here I only find the one pass tools, not three pass ones, which I think maybe would be easier to use also?

For an M3 cut tap then use a 2.5mm hole. For a roll tap use 2.7mm I've put up a picture of a roll tap below, it looks more like a screw and jsut rolls the thread into the material. They aren't generally recommended.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXyph36RAp2mnCgatA_lCaNCUwY1x93cwfcBjVODgrcJewGULBMg

[neslekkim]

For an M3 cut tap then use a 2.5mm hole. For a roll tap use 2.7mm I've put up a picture of a roll tap below, it looks more like a screw and jsut rolls the thread into the material. They aren't generally recommended.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXyph36RAp2mnCgatA_lCaNCUwY1x93cwfcBjVODgrcJewGULBMg

cut tap, roll tap?,hm.. This is cut?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350859782830

[kripton2035]

M3 | PITCH - 0.5MM | DRILL 2.5MM          M3.5 | PITCH - 0.6MM | DRILL 2.9MM

M4 | PITCH - 0.7MM | DRILL 3.3MM          M5 | PITCH - 0.8MM | DRILL 4.2MM

M6 | PITCH - 1.0MM | DRILL 5.0MM          M7 | PITCH - 1.0MM | DRILL 6.0MM

M8 | PITCH - 1.25MM | DRILL 6.8MM        M10 | PITCH - 1.5MM | DRILL 8.5MM

M12 | PITCH - 1.75MM | DRILL 10.2MM     M14 | PITCH - 2.0MM | DRILL 12.0MM

M16 | PITCH - 2.0MM | DRILL 14.0MM       M18 | PITCH - 2.5MM | DRILL 15.5MM

M20 | PITCH - 2.5MM | DRILL 17.5MM       M22 | PITCH - 2.5MM | DRILL 19.5MM

M24 | PITCH - 3.0MM | DRILL 21.5MM

[KJDS]

For an M3 cut tap then use a 2.5mm hole. For a roll tap use 2.7mm I've put up a picture of a roll tap below, it looks more like a screw and jsut rolls the thread into the material. They aren't generally recommended.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXyph36RAp2mnCgatA_lCaNCUwY1x93cwfcBjVODgrcJewGULBMg

cut tap, roll tap?,hm.. This is cut?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350859782830

That is a cut tap.

[SeanB]

You mean copper melts at higher degrees than almost any iron so you melt the iron using copper as the heat conduit? This is how they make anti-tank missiles.

Spark erosion, using an electric arc through an insulating oil. It preferentially erodes the one electrode, allowing you to machine any hard conductive material using a very soft easy to machine mandrel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_discharge_machining

For a little info

[Monkeh]

Diameter - pitch = drill size

Fixed that for you. Jeez.

[neslekkim]

M3 | PITCH - 0.5MM | DRILL 2.5MM          M3.5 | PITCH - 0.6MM | DRILL 2.9MM

ai, damn.. that was too easy to find now