Too good to be true (220V Hakko fx-888 replica)

[rounsmith]

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505

[Nermash]

I am also wondering if this is real or fake?

[saturation]

Thanks for finding that.  Hanko?  But the labels and boxes say Hakko on them.  If its not a real Hakko its very likely counterfeit, and for nearly the same price as Hakko [ its priced far more than the US version!].  Another reason to be careful about where you buy Hakko products, the copies can be very good.

The only thing I can see clearly on the photos is power switch.



Photo from Sparkfun:

[bsgd]

DX changed the title and it now says 'Genuine HAKKO'.

From the pictures, I guess it is an original HAKKO product for the chinese market.

[bsgd]

The stickers on the bottom look exactly like my unit that I got from an official US HAKKO distributor.

[gxti]

The US version costs less than 100 USD from US retailers, so it doesn't seem that sketchy that Chinese retailers are selling the 240V version for "only" 111 USD. It's just sold without the enormous Euro/Aussie cabal markup

Also, the power switch from the first picture looks the same as on my genuine US Hakko 936, so that's not so strange. The colors look the same plus or minus bad photography by DX.

[Mint.]

DX changed the title and it now says 'Genuine HAKKO'.

From the pictures, I guess it is an original HAKKO product for the chinese market.

It even says it includes a Chinese user manual

[Spawn]

Don’t think having exact same stickers and crap like that wont make it a real one. We all can do a wild guess here but if anyone is interested, why not mail HAKKO US and ask about this?

[alm]

I'm sure that Hakko US will suggest that you bypass the local distributors and buy it cheaper from China. Their suggestion would probably be something like: 'We always suggest you to buy it from local authorized resellers, this is the only way to guarantee a genuine product and support. We are aware of several sources of counterfeit Hakko products.'

[Psi]

Their suggestion would probably be something like: 'We always suggest you to buy it from local authorized resellers',

If they do we can respond with the fact that local resellers are ripping us off, and explain that the 220V version costs twice as much from local distributors as the 110v version in USA.

[mariush]

I wish that was the case.

For me, this was what the distributor for my country said:

"Well you see, we usually work only with companies, so we don't have procedures to send to a private person like you, but I'll make an exception.  We can give it to you for 210 euro plus 10 euro shipping through courier."

That's basically 275$ just for the fx-888.

I can get anytime Sparkfun or Adafruit's (forget which one I checked) fx-888 for 90$ + 60$ shipping +3% customs fees + 24% vat and it's still much less. Same price on eBay as well...

If Dealextreme's costs only 115$ and it's original, it would be a great deal, especially as I would just have to replace the cord. Also, as a bonus, there would be no 24% VAT for this, because they don't print the prices on the box and usually list the items as "toys", so i can just tell the customs officers it was 20$ and that's the end of it.

However, I went and bought a Hakko 936 from a guy in Israel, which works at 230v natively, so I'm all good for now.

I'm really surprised how these large companies work with some incompetent distributors or distributors that ignore some parts of the markets. The sad thing is even if I'd send an email, it will probably go to a some Indian guy's desk and then get a template answer.

I was interested in some hand tools from an Italian company these days, checked their distributors list and found a local company.... sent them an email ... "Hi, our company changed the type of services offered five years ago, we don't sell hand tools anymore."

Five years... their websites was still there live, they never bothered to remove it, the original company never bothered to check the distributor...

[alm]

Would Hakko US really care? They're just a subsidiary of Hakko Japan, aren't they? And I find it very unlikely that Hakko is not aware of the prices your local resellers charge. It wouldn't surprise me if Hakko charged higher prices for the 220 V units to their distributors. The higher prices for the consumers may just be the result of this policy. How else would you explain the uniformly high prices in 220 V countries?

[EEVblog]

There appear to be a whole slew of companies in China selling the 220V FX-888:
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=fx-888&catId=0&manual=y

I suspect they are just low margin chinese market products, and not fakes.
But it would take a teardown to prove it.
The FX-888 is very well made inside, with quite a bit of attention to detail, so I'd expect a fake to be much more shoddily constructed.

Dave.

[gjh]

I got my Hakko FX-888 in person from Shenzhen SEG electronics market... Cost $93 AUD, from a trusted seller well with my eyes.... Have purchased multiple times from same seller before for other equipment.. ie. Rigol DS1052E scope..    Seller had a good looking authorised dealer certificate,etc and the build quality of mine from the outside looks pretty good cant fault it, works great!   I guess I'll pull mine apart and check.   Local distrubutors in Oz charge a arm and a leg for this soldering iron like $170+

[Bored@Work]

Fine if you got some good equipment, but

Seller had a good looking authorised dealer certificate

that wold not be a criteria for me. Everyone with Word, PowerPoint or Photoshop can make good looking certificates. http://www.google.com/search?q=certificate+template

[Dagon]

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/302103/210652245-387080283/New-Arrival-220V-Hakko-FX-888-Soldering-Station-Hakko-Soldering-Irons.html
This shop , Shenzhen Scotle sells what looks like a real one .

I got one from these guys a few months back. I don't believe it's fake. If it is it's the best one I've ever seen, I checked it pretty thoroughly. It came with chinese   documents so it does seem they are for the domestic market.

[krivx]

Has anyone reviewed this model from DX yet? It seems very attractive for those of us in Europe. I would order it and pull it apart but can't really afford the risk of getting a shoddy fake .

[saturation]

If you pay near the US price for a Hakko from a dubious seller, why risk getting counterfeit?  That switch I showed is concerning because all the Hakkos coming from the Malaysian plant have the switch as shown in many photos of folks who bought Hakkos from authorized sources, and Hakko's official photos.  So unless Hakko changed production parts supplier, it raises questions.

Many of aliexpress or alibaba etc., are distributors and could legitimately have true Hakko.  But, its your risk.  You could try ordering from the US mail order side and see what happens.  As always, get the voltage for your country.

There is a new Hakko iron out, it puts the entire station in the handle, and still uses the regular tips.

http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?CID=49&PID=5032&Page=1

[krivx]

If you pay near the US price for a Hakko from a dubious seller, why risk getting counterfeit? 

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but the cost of a 220V FX888 in Europe is about 2-4 times the US price, and it seems to be difficult to find a US seller who will stock a 220V model and ship internationally. This is a very attractive alternative if genuine.

[saturation]

hi krivx,  the reply wasn't addressed to you, or anyone else, its just to the topic.  You can chat with hakkousa.com to see if they can obtain a 220V version for you, and quote shipping too.  A problem with buying via China dealers is that Hakko is commonly counterfeited in China, you just need to beware.

http://www.hakko.com/english/company/intellectual_property/index.html

Aliexpress and its parent, alibaba, are covered with fraudsters and counterfeit sellers some of them working with alibaba's own employees, so buyer beware.  Even they website warns of them, they have very lax controls.

http://help.aliexpress.com/safebuyingtips/Tips_on_how_to_avoid_fraud_on_AliExpress.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/02/executives-at-alibaba-resign-over-fraud-investigation.html

Maybe its fixed now, but you are safer buying from anyone but them or other companies controlled by them.

If you pay near the US price for a Hakko from a dubious seller, why risk getting counterfeit? 

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but the cost of a 220V FX888 in Europe is about 2-4 times the US price, and it seems to be difficult to find a US seller who will stock a 220V model and ship internationally. This is a very attractive alternative if genuine.

[Dagon]

Since the markup doesn't differ much for the US market , it is correct .
By the way , where is it made ?

It's says Malaysia.

[gjh]

Normally most shops that sell these stuff have a little cred since there are very few gold accredited stores selling soldering equipment , but like saturation said , it could be .
gjh said  Shenzhen SEG electronics market is a good shop selling the actual FX-888
and Dagon said Shenzhen Scotle was good .
A teardown is necessary to prove us wrong .

It was the only reseller that I could find in the whole SEG market and that place is huge!     The store did have some sort of accrediation, and I know certificates can be photoshopped etc.   Too me the store didn't seem dodgy and I've seen many dodgy things in China. My Hakko did come with chinese registration cards and all that so its for the chinese domestic market.    Afterwards I did by a fake Apple 4g bluetooth headset knowing its fake from the same market also I  tried to find a dodgy copy of Windows XP my wife kept on asking store after store within the SEG market and could only purchase legit copies.  Had to venture outside on the street to find a dodgy person on the street corner selling a cheap dodgy copy. 

Not everything in china is 100% dodgy but you have to know what to look out for and check quality.  When in doubt if its cheap buy one unit and check it over.

I guess tonight I will open up my Hakko and check the quality for sure!  I'll post up some photos.

[gjh]

Not too sure which Shenzhen market i bought my YH 858D at , certainly inside the building(s) they are run by different people .
There are so many buildings that all i remember that the one i bought from is on a stop named 'Lingzhi' and that was opposite my hotel .
Sadly i was there for only 4 days and i had next to no time to shop there .

Yeah there's many markets there..  Thats why everytime I see something good or make a purchase, I usually take a business card and write on the back the item I purchased

Pictures of the SEG market are covered in this link http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/shenzhen

4 days is clearly not enough for first time traveller..  On my first time I was in Shenzhen a few years ago for 2 weeks.. I must have made 8 or 10 trips to the market area Hua Qiang Bei ,  sometimes 2 times in a single day...   I can't resist myself, every year I say to myself dont buy anything but I usually end up with buying with the mindset what if I need this item in the future..  Even a few weeks before travelling I find myself writing up a list of components to pass onto sellers to fix up my order before hand..  Haven't came across any fake chips yet though that I keep on hearing about on the net.

[bsgd]

The stickers on the bottom look exactly like my unit that I got from an official US HAKKO distributor.

How far away are the S/N on the image from yours ?

Sorry for the delay. My SN is completely different, much lower.

[amyk]

From looking around, the genuine FX-888 seems to have a microcontroller, while clones are likely to just use the same analog control they've been using in the 936 era.

IMHO there shouldn't be a need for an MCU in a simple soldering station like this. An all-analog controller is simpler to diagnose and easier to repair.

[saturation]

Great, looking forward to it. 

You can compare against here too:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/hakko-fx-888-teardown-review/msg54772/#msg54772

and Dave's mod video:

A teardown is necessary to prove us wrong .
...

...Not everything in china is 100% dodgy but you have to know what to look out for and check quality.  When in doubt if its cheap buy one unit and check it over.

I guess tonight I will open up my Hakko and check the quality for sure!  I'll post up some photos.

[gjh]

Finally I've had some time to upload the photos.. Check them out..  To me looks very clean inside and my gutt feeling is too much details followed to be a fake.  Love the plastic screwdriver, I assume its to open the case but a bit weak     Says its made in Malaysia if that makes a difference.   The PCB where the fuse is held seems to be slightly different compared to Daves one,  but they still use the black marker to blackout the 125V labelling on the board..   See what Dave the man says...   Is it fake or not..  Purchased in Shenzhen China from one of the major electronics markets there.  I obscured the serial number and registration card serial, feels more like the right thing to do on the net.. Dunno if the chinese are looking

[saturation]

It looks genuine.  That little screw driver is to adjust the cal pot.  To date, All FX888 are made in Malaysia.

[gjh]

Cool thanks for your thoughts...  hmm haha! makes sense why the screw driver is weak... ahh I should read the manual first but typically who does that

[krivx]

There is an unboxing video of an FX-888 purchased from DX here if anyone could compare and comment? It seems that they are genuine irons, I think I'll order one in the coming weeks.

[saturation]

Its looks almost genuine, the only issue is the power switch is different from most photos, and I don't see the rubber cleaner, Hakko B3474, that's on the Hakko FH800 soldering iron holder.  It maybe inside the plastic wrap with the sponge. 

[Nermash]

I just got one today, and to the best of my observations it is a genuine Hakko. It even has 5.00 mm diameter cable on iron handle:)

[poorchava]

Maybe a lame question, but what is the availability of tips for this iron? I mean it's obvious that one can buy Hakko tips and they will fit for sure, but they also will be rather pricy. Is there some one-hung-lo soldering station type that uses tips that fit fx-888? I know that many of the chinese cheap generic soldering stations are actually clones of Hakko, Weller, Pace and te like. Are fx-888 tips comatible with famous/infamous/widely cloned 936 type station?

btw, how do i recognize 120V from 230V one? Or maybe it tolerates both inputs 120/230? (SMPS or some voltage switch). Replacing a plug for round, european type is not a problem. There's this station on amazon at $80 which is even cheaper than ebay ones, but it says 120V.

[saturation]

Tips?  Plenty.  If not from Hakko, there are 3rd parties and even counterfeit.  But Hakko has been known to support old models for decades, no worries there.  I'd be more careful about buying online: real Hakko tips sell for about $5 each, fake ~$1 each, so if you buy fake thinking its the real deal, you're not getting your money's worth.  The real Hakko tips will last longer and heat properly, with fake you never know.

The voltage rating is labeled on the station.  Its unfortunately, not switchable, so you have to buy the unit with the right voltage.

Maybe a lame question, but what is the availability of tips for this iron? I mean it's obvious that one can buy Hakko tips and they will fit for sure, but they also will be rather pricy. Is there some one-hung-lo soldering station type that uses tips that fit fx-888? I know that many of the chinese cheap generic soldering stations are actually clones of Hakko, Weller, Pace and te like. Are fx-888 tips comatible with famous/infamous/widely cloned 936 type station?

btw, how do i recognize 120V from 230V one? Or maybe it tolerates both inputs 120/230? (SMPS or some voltage switch). Replacing a plug for round, european type is not a problem. There's this station on amazon at $80 which is even cheaper than ebay ones, but it says 120V.

[poorchava]

You know, i've been thinking about purchasing an ebay one and replacing the plug. If i buy the amazon one i'll just buy 100W 230V->120V converter meant for powering american stuff from european powergrid.

I can buy a SMPS converter for about $20 or a proper toroidal 220/120 transformer for around $30. On the other hand there is only one authorized hakko reseller in Poland and they are more into cooperation with larger companies. They don't even answer to emails from private people, and getting it from reseller from other nearby EU countries (Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Norway, Finland, Sweden etc.) would cost upwards of 130 euro + shiping (guesstimation: 20 euro) which translates to about PLN 630 and this is rather serious amount of money, at least for a 'serious hobby' equipment (hint: Rigol 1052 is about 2/3 of avarage net salary). We've generally got western-european prices for stuff while salaries are more like russia or something (no offense intended).

[SeanB]

I feel your pain, but at least you can get them easily enough if you go by train or car to the south. Here the same, but I have to either pay airfreight or wait 3 months for seafreight. No other way other than flying, and you will have a nasty look from the customs and the TSA ( hello mr finger) on the way back.

[poorchava]

I actually live in Wroclaw, which is south-western Poland. About 70km from Czech Republic border and ~130km from German border.

Funny thing: It happened to me several times that it was cheaper to gather 'orders' from friends/relatives, then actually drive to Germany, buy necessary stuff in eg. construction market and drive back. In on case price of the item in Germany + fuel cost was still HALF of what I would have to pay for the item in Poland. This is simply outrageous.

As for customs, in Poland they are a total mess. I've ordered about $400 worth of electronic and mechanic stuffs from east (Kazakhstan or Usbekistan IIRC) and no charge was put on them and package wasn't even opened. On the other hand once i got customs fee applied to the package which contained 20x 0805 smd leds for which i paid $0.40 on ebay . And once upon a time, when there was a really good proportion between our currency and US dollars my friend imported a new model of IBM Thinkpad laptop from us which was then held at customs for OVER 4 MONTHS! Here it's basically completly random whether your package gets import tax applied or not and how long it will be held.

It's also PITA to order samples from most companies, as they generally refuse shipping to eastern europe (Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Lativia, Estony etc) because the way they see it just because i'm a Pole I will most certainly resell received samples on auction website. It's virtually impossible to get anything from TI or Analog Devices and their more application specific ICs are very hard to come by in Poland (eg. try to buy OPA541)

[saturation]

Sorry to hear, poorchava, but I was in a similar situation when I started in the Pacific.  However, in many parts of Micronesia, Guam, Philippines etc., the 'low cost' gear came from Taiwan and Japan [ 1970s and 1980s] and we couldn't import T&M without big taxes, but we could get anything that was educational, without duties.  So, components were ok, finished good were not.  So for those times, we had to build everything we needed.

May I suggest you continue to go to Germany or neighboring countries rather than deal with your gov't tax laws.  Don't worry about Hakko or any name brand, I think you are in a situation where even a good clone would do, given the costs and the working environment you have to work with.

One thing I learned to do well was salvage trash electronics for parts, and still do it today.

I actually live in Wroclaw, which is south-western Poland. About 70km from Czech Republic border and ~130km from German border.

Funny thing: It happened to me several times that it was cheaper to gather 'orders' from friends/relatives, then actually drive to Germany, buy necessary stuff in eg. construction market and drive back. In on case price of the item in Germany + fuel cost was still HALF of what I would have to pay for the item in Poland. This is simply outrageous.

[Nermash]

After seeing some teardown photos of Dealextreme user "mangoboi", and comparing these to the unit I've got and then to Dave's unit, I must say that this is either a very very good and elaborate clone or a special Hakko version for chinese market... Main difference is the control section, on dx version it is pure analog, done with LM324. It also has one LM358 on board. There is no mcu in sight.

However, packaging, looks and feel of the unit, details outside and inside, suggest it might be genuine.

Here are the pictures mangoboi posted:
http://i50.tinypic.com/35ho2mg.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2zxtdmd.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/14ccoix.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/n56cew.jpg

[amyk]

After seeing some teardown photos of Dealextreme user "mangoboi", and comparing these to the unit I've got and then to Dave's unit, I must say that this is either a very very good and elaborate clone or a special Hakko version for chinese market... Main difference is the control section, on dx version it is pure analog, done with LM324. It also has one LM358 on board. There is no mcu in sight.

However, packaging, looks and feel of the unit, details outside and inside, suggest it might be genuine.

Here are the pictures mangoboi posted:
http://i50.tinypic.com/35ho2mg.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2zxtdmd.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/14ccoix.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/n56cew.jpg

My hypothesis is that it's made using the same parts as the genuine Hakko, with the exception of the control PCB. Housings, transformers, and PCBs can be easily produced, but the MCU, being a custom part, isn't so easily obtainable. It might even be one of the more expensive pieces. If you were the manager of a factory contracted by Hakko to build the FX-888 and wanted to ghost shift, I can imagine you wouldn't want to use that custom controller. The solution? Design a control PCB with the same form factor, but all analog so cheaper, and fit that to the ghost shift product. The same thing happened in the 936 days with the original's triac controller: none of the clones used it, instead opting for a circuit that could be built with just jellybean parts like the LM324. The large power resistor sitting on the side is not present in the version with the MCU, and the use of Chinese capacitors instead of the Rubycon in the original suggest this.

Still, if it works well I wouldn't worry. China is getting better. I'd rather get a 936 clone though, not a fan of the design.

[saturation]

The mangoboi review is no where in the Dealextreme sight, can you link?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505?item=2

It doesn't make sense that Hakko would go to the trouble of making a new PCB for the Chinese market, when they are mass producing the existing one, so it strongly suggests counterfeit.

But, I'd have to see it to believe it, and there are no photos linked that detail the front and back of the questionable PCB, so I remain skeptical about these conclusions.  The fuse PCB looks very much like a regular Hakko Fx888, as posted in the USA site spare parts.

I think the Chinese engineers can make good consumer products, but selling counterfeit is bad for consumers because at most, the counterfeit item would be worth < 50% of the true FX 888 price, so you are paying too much.  Also, are the tips and iron genuine too?  It looks so on the pics.  Lastly, selling with intent to deceive is a criminal act itself.  Even the parts could be substandard and could die in short time, there is no way to insure quality, and if ir malfunctions and you try to get warranty repairs, you could be left high and dry.

Mangaboi should report his finding to Hakko JP or USA and have them investigate.

After seeing some teardown photos of Dealextreme user "mangoboi", and comparing these to the unit I've got and then to Dave's unit, I must say that this is either a very very good and elaborate clone or a special Hakko version for chinese market... Main difference is the control section, on dx version it is pure analog, done with LM324. It also has one LM358 on board. There is no mcu in sight.

[Nermash]

The mangoboi review is no where in the Dealextreme sight, can you link?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505?item=2

There is discussions section on the bottom of that page, thread "Genuine HAKKO".

I bought the same unit, and mine is exactly the same as on mangoboi pictures. It has LM324 instead of Hakko branded mcu as seen in Dave's video. Also, there is a big power resistor on these units which does not exist  (at least not on pcb side facing transformer) in the genuine model.

As I said before, everything from packaging, accesories, suplied papers, looks and feel of the unit suggest it is real deal, but lack of mcu is a giveaway. As Amyk said it is probably "ghost shift" product.

Since it came with apparently legitimate warranty card from Hakko Hong Kong, I have already informed Hakko JP and Hakko HK about this issue.

[saturation]

Yes, the links so far have been down for 6 + hours.

http://club.dx.com/forums/forums.dx/forum.126505

Keep us posted with what Hakko says. 

The mangoboi review is no where in the Dealextreme sight, can you link?

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505?item=2

There is discussions section on the bottom of that page, thread "Genuine HAKKO".

I bought the same unit, and mine is exactly the same as on mangoboi pictures. It has LM324 instead of Hakko branded mcu as seen in Dave's video. Also, there is a big power resistor on these units which does not exist  (at least not on pcb side facing transformer) in the genuine model.

As I said before, everything from packaging, accesories, suplied papers, looks and feel of the unit suggest it is real deal, but lack of mcu is a giveaway. As Amyk said it is probably "ghost shift" product.

Since it came with apparently legitimate warranty card from Hakko Hong Kong, I have already informed Hakko JP and Hakko HK about this issue.

[richardBeach]

Quite interesting all of this! I just purchased a “Chinese” Hakko FX-888 off an Australian ebay seller a few weeks ago (think they still have them up). Everything looks genuine to me, and if it isn’t genuine it is such a good clone who cares, seems to work v.well!! :-)  I took it apart the other weekend and mine looks the same inside as the photos shown in post #36 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/too-good-to-be-true-(220v-hakko-fx-888-replica)/msg104435/#msg104435), which would appear to be quite different to the pictures of the dx purchased one. Mine has the custom micro and everything nicely cable tied in place, extra tubing over the power cable etc. Fuse board isn’t exactly the same as the one in post #36 and isn’t the same as the dx one or Dave’s Australian one, but very similar to the one shown in post #36. Also my switch matches Dave’s and the one from post #36, which seems different from the dx one.

So maybe there a couple of different sources of “Chinese” FX-888’s, some that are more genuine than others, anyway that is my quick two cents worth, maybe it will help someone.

[amyk]

Quite interesting all of this! I just purchased a “Chinese” Hakko FX-888 off an Australian ebay seller a few weeks ago (think they still have them up). Everything looks genuine to me, and if it isn’t genuine it is such a good clone who cares, seems to work v.well!! :-)  I took it apart the other weekend and mine looks the same inside as the photos shown in post #36 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/too-good-to-be-true-(220v-hakko-fx-888-replica)/msg104435/#msg104435), which would appear to be quite different to the pictures of the dx purchased one. Mine has the custom micro and everything nicely cable tied in place, extra tubing over the power cable etc. Fuse board isn’t exactly the same as the one in post #36 and isn’t the same as the dx one or Dave’s Australian one, but very similar to the one shown in post #36. Also my switch matches Dave’s and the one from post #36, which seems different from the dx one.

So maybe there a couple of different sources of “Chinese” FX-888’s, some that are more genuine than others, anyway that is my quick two cents worth, maybe it will help someone.

If it has the MCU I would certainly consider it genuine until some other evidence shows up that it isn't. (The Chinese cloners don't see much value in cloning that, when their analog controller can do virtually the same thing at a lower cost.) Manufacturers do make revisions so a different fuse board is not necessarily a reason for concern.

[Nermash]

Keep us posted with what Hakko says. 

[

Well, here is the epilogue:

* Hakko Japan initially got interested, asked for photos and purchase location. After I gave them this info, I have asked them to about the possibility to get the genuine control board for FX888 from them. They refused to sell (give, rent, etc) the board directly. THUMBS DOWN!

* Hakko Hong Kong took two emails to respond to my serial number inquiry. Apart from saying that serial number is not correct, nothing. Also could not get the genuine control board from them. THUMB SIDEWAYS...

* Dealextreme offered to issue full refund and even subsidize the shipping cost back to their UK site, in amount of 40 USD. As an alternative to sending the unit back, they offered store discount in amount of 20 USD. I was really suprised, in a positive way, how DX handled this. THUMBS UP!!!!

[saturation]

Thanks Nermash, the response of Hakko suggests they do think its counterfeit.  One thought:

I don't think Hakko is going to sell you an original board so you can insert it into a counterfeit product.  However, if you had told them you needed it for a genuine Hakko, they'd sell it.  You can find spare boards on the US Hakko site, but since you were inquiring whether what you bought was counterfeit, you'd have to make a parts purchase request either from another site or authorized distributor.  Note, that board alone is 43% of the purchase cost, given the cost of the whole 888, $100, the part is $43.

http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=4858&Page=1

You're better off returning it.  Whether to keep a clone depends if it works as well as the original or you think it can work for you given a real 888 can be 1.5-2x more costly than ~$100 in many parts of the world.

Keep us posted with what Hakko says. 

[

Well, here is the epilogue:

* Hakko Japan initially got interested, asked for photos and purchase location. After I gave them this info, I have asked them to about the possibility to get the genuine control board for FX888 from them. They refused to sell (give, rent, etc) the board directly. THUMBS DOWN!

* Hakko Hong Kong took two emails to respond to my serial number inquiry. Apart from saying that serial number is not correct, nothing. Also could not get the genuine control board from them. THUMB SIDEWAYS...

* Dealextreme offered to issue full refund and even subsidize the shipping cost back to their UK site, in amount of 40 USD. As an alternative to sending the unit back, they offered store discount in amount of 20 USD. I was really suprised, in a positive way, how DX handled this. THUMBS UP!!!!

[typeglob]

Got my fx888 replica from DX today. As far as knock-offs go, I think it is excellently made. It feels solid and well finished - like I imagine the genuine article would.

Internally (with the exception of quite a bit of flux residue on the board) it looks well made and neat; wires have heat shrink on the end to cover bare wire, the bolts holding down the transformer have split washers on them and the soldering looks good. However, I think they somehow heated the transformer too much, as the plastic 'platform' where the soldering points are has some heat damage (plastic started bubbling and has become a bit brittle).

Removing the Chinese power cord and replacing it with a European one was quick and easy. Did some soldering (lead free of course) and it seems to work well. I also got some nice reproduction tips (given the price of $9 for five 1.6mm chisel tips including shipping, I can't imagine they're the genuine thing).

DX sent it with a description of 'gadget' and a price of $7.39 with free shipping - local Dutch customs opened it and actually stamped 'vrijgesteld van heffingen' (exempt from taxes, because the value of the article + shipping is less than 20 euro). I can't imagine how someone could look in the package and believe that value, especially given it weighs almost 3 kg and a quick google search on the article name printed on the 'gadget' would've revealed quite a different price.

Anyway, I'm quite happy with it (a real one would've cost me at least 3-3.5x more). Yes, I'm keeping trade in fake articles alive but come on, making a genuine Hakko available in the US for $80 and trying to sell it in the rest of the world for 3-4x more doesn't seem like a particularly ethical way of doing business either.

Edit: just measured the resistance from the tip to the ground on the power plug - it's about 1.2 ohm. Shouldn't this be much, much higher like maybe 1M ohm? This doesn't seem particularly 'ESD safe' to me, so I might add  some resistance in there.

[gxti]

Edit: just measured the resistance from the tip to the ground on the power plug - it's about 1.2 ohm. Shouldn't this be much, much higher like maybe 1M ohm? This doesn't seem particularly 'ESD safe' to me, so I might add  some resistance in there.

My genuine Hakko 936 reads dead short as well. You're right that it would initially seem to be better if it were high-impedance, but it could also serve a safety-related purpose.

[typeglob]

Looks like less than 2 ohm resistance is how it should be. And now I think about it, that makes sense.

[tomas1808]

I am looking for a soldering station that lasts for a lifetime.

I am deciding between getting a decent $30 936 clone or going all the way and getting a "proper" FX-888.

I can get chinese versions of the FX-888 for 110-130 USD from ebay/ali express, but I rather get the "proper" version.

Does anyone know where to get the 220V Digital "Hakko IC" version (not chinese analog)?

Any ideas?

(I am located in Uruguay)

[notsob]

These are more hobby types, if you really want 'decent' you have to pay the BIG $$$ for them.

Metcal, JBC and Pace are in the professional soldering equipment arena, just be sitting down when you look at the cost of them.

[tomas1808]

Interesting..

What would be the difference between hobby and pro soldering stations? (Apart from reliability). Do they make better solder joints?

I heard about Hakkos 936 still working after 20+ years. That is what I am looking for.

I am either between ultra cheap 936 clones and a "hobby type" FX-888 (if I am able to find for a reasonable price). Kind of all or nothing (well, the minimum).

The question remains: where can I get a 230V version of the Hakko FX-888 (the MCU one)

Many thanks!

[mariush]

I would suggest getting the 110v version from various sellers. You may find the old (non-digital) fx888 for about 85$ plus shipping.

There's one seller on eBay which has both versions starting from about 84$, plus shipping:

http://stores.ebay.com/NEI-Lamps-and-Electronics/HAKKO-SOLDERING-STATIONS-/_i.html?_fsub=16378302&_sid=82105093&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

The stations is powered from a simple transformer, 24 v AC  3.2A  ... you might have a problem finding one that would fit in your 110v hakko but there's nothing stopping you from just buying a transformer, putting it in a box by the desk with 24v AC going into the Hakko overriding the original 110v transformer.

You can get new transformers that would suit the station for about 14$, maybe less, here's some examples :

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/VPS24-3300/237-1276-ND/666162
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/187F24/187F24-ND/2358267

and I'm sure you can find some on eBay.

[tomas1808]

I heard the transformer had a 8v tap or something? I will investigate. Transformer swap will be my last resource.

[nanofrog]

What would be the difference between hobby and pro soldering stations? (Apart from reliability). Do they make better solder joints?

I heard about Hakkos 936 still working after 20+ years. That is what I am looking for.

I am either between ultra cheap 936 clones and a "hobby type" FX-888 (if I am able to find for a reasonable price). Kind of all or nothing (well, the minimum).

The question remains: where can I get a 230V version of the Hakko FX-888 (the MCU one)

Apart from improved reliability, they tend to have better temp regulation, and may also offer faster recovery (get back to temp after a joint or cleaning). Still requires good skill from the operator, but it will improve matters, particularly in areas that draw off a lot of heat, such as ground planes or larger devices.

Although the Hakko FX-888 may appear to be made by a toy company, it's a professional station (albeit entry level). As per pricing, if you live in a 230V country, you could see if a US version + step-down transformer would be a cheaper means of getting one (the NEI ebay seller has good prices and ships abroad). Worth a look IMHO anyway. 

Hope this helps. 

[saturation]

The Hakko FX888 can perform to professional standards defined by the IPC and summarized here:

http://www.circuitnet.com/experts/86492.shtml

You can find many other stations equally capable, but in the USA, its probably the lowest cost of the pro grade stations.

Given its history since inception and its legacy design from the 936, it should last your more than a lifetime.  Its not just easy to repair with parts from Hakko, its been heavily copied, so DIY spares for the controller board are easy to find, and the wear tear parts, soldering pencil, tips and heaters, are all well supplied by Hakko.

Given its popularity, beware counterfeit Hakko products, from tips, heater and stations.  If you want the original your lowest risk is to buy from an authorized distributor or direct from Hakko itself.

If you are not in the USA, there can be a premium for buying an FX888, i.e., cost > 2x more than USA prices; cost wise compare it to available EU made branded stations if you live in the EU, like JBC from Spain.

[tomas1808]

Thanks for the answers. I am sure the FX888 is good enough for me . I may even go for the digital display version.

I have asked HakkoUSA if they have a 230V FX888 by chance. Maybe I get lucky.

If not, I may go for the step-down transformer method.

Or maybe just get a cheap 936 clone just for the moment.

[mariush]

Don't hold your breath on their answer.

If they answer they'll probably just direct you to your local distributor which will either say they only work with companies or that they're willing to sell you one for 150-200 euro.

Just get one from eBay from the distributors i mentioned in another thread (in the last week I think there were probably 3-4 threads about soldering stations)

[tomas1808]

Well, Hakko USA answered back.

They contacted Hakko Japan for a quote for the 230V version.

Just $340 US Dollars. Lead time: 8 weeks 

Its almost like they didn't want to sell these..

I think I am going for the chinese version from Ali Express. 

[nanofrog]

Well, Hakko USA answered back.

They contacted Hakko Japan for a quote for the 230V version.

Just $340 US Dollars. Lead time: 8 weeks 

Its almost like they didn't want to sell these..

I think I am going for the chinese version from Ali Express. 

I suspect it's to make sure they don't interfere with their distributors in the EU.

But why not go through http://www.dancap.co.uk/ (Hakko's UK distributor)?

They have both the analog and digital version listed for 98.98GBP (+ shipping and VAT from what I understand), so probably looking at ~135 - 140GBP in the end.

[tomas1808]

Thats quite a good price.

But with shipping prices will go to hell.

In Uruguay the only way to import items above $50 is by Express shipping (EMS, FedEx, etc), otherwise you have to pay ridiculous customs taxes (60% of (Cost of item + shipping)). And if the item is above $100 you have to pay a even more insane tax. With Express you can go up to $200 without taxes.

Express shipping 8.5 pounds across the world is not very cheap.

I actually have some friends in Ireland ATM but they wont be back until next year.

So I think I am stuck with trying the chinese variation/copy for the time.

If it happens to be fake/bad quality I could sell it in the local market for pretty much the same price I will pay for.

If I get the chinese version I'll report back and maybe do a review with pics, etc.

[nanofrog]

Thats quite a good price.

But with shipping prices will go to hell.

In Uruguay the only way to import items above $50 is by Express shipping (EMS, FedEx, etc), otherwise you have to pay ridiculous customs taxes (60% of (Cost of item + shipping)). And if the item is above $100 you have to pay a even more insane tax. With Express you can go up to $200 without taxes.

Express shipping 8.5 pounds across the world is not very cheap.

I actually have some friends in Ireland ATM but they wont be back until next year.

So I think I am stuck with trying the chinese variation/copy for the time.

If it happens to be fake/bad quality I could sell it in the local market for pretty much the same price I will pay for.

If I get the chinese version I'll report back and maybe do a review with pics, etc.

OK, I was under the impression you were in the UK.

But I have another idea you might want to look at...

There is an eBay seller of the US version of the FX-888D that they'll ship to Uruguay (they have two alternatives, USPS <US Postal Service> Priority and Express methods; $60.75 & $76.60 respectively on the shipping rate). Get a step-up transformer (say 300W), and you'd be able to use it (may find locally), and see if it works out cost wise for you.

Hakko: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888-Digital-Read-out-Adjustable-Temp-Soldering-Station-/380553856557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589ac7062d
Examples of step-up units you wouldn't even need to wire: http://www.voltage-converter-transformers.com/step-up-down-transformer.html

Literally just plug and play. 

If you can get the transformer for ~$30 all in, then the entire setup would run you right at $200 (dancap actually comes out to 130.77GPB total, according to another member in the UK, and I converted this to USD to get a budget reference).

You can also make one if you can source a sufficient sized 2:1 transformer.

[tomas1808]

Yes, that is a good idea.

However I am pretty much poor (21yo) and I dont know if I can justify the extra $100 just to be sure it is "legit". At least not atm. (I can get the chinese + FedEx Shipping for exactly $103)

Plus I have not heard a single bad review of the chinese FX-888.

So even if they are indeed fake the seem to be very good reproductions.

And as I said earlier, if it ends up being of poor quality/not satisfied, I can pretty much sell it for the same price I will have payed for it.

In that case I would go for the step-down transformer idea.

Thanks for all the input nanofrog! 

[nanofrog]

Yes, that is a good idea.

However I am pretty much poor (21yo) and I dont know if I can justify the extra $100 just to be sure it is "legit". At least not atm. (I can get the chinese + FedEx Shipping for exactly $103)

Plus I have not heard a single bad review of the chinese FX-888.

So even if they are indeed fake the seem to be very good reproductions.

And as I said earlier, if it ends up being of poor quality/not satisfied, I can pretty much sell it for the same price I will have payed for it.

In that case I would go for the step-down transformer idea.

Thanks for all the input nanofrog! 

Understandable.

But it might be worth checking out other models, such as a Weller WES51 or WES51D for example as well (120V only for WES51, but the WES51DUK = 230V digital version), and see if those will come in cheaper than the Hakko. For example, the same US eBay seller has the WES51 for $99, but the shipping is a bit cheaper. No idea if the WES51DUK is offered locally, but it's worth a look.

Not seen much on the FX-888 clones specifically (there is at least one tear down in here somewhere), and it seemed OK from what I recall. But given the tear downs of Chinese soldering equipment in general, I'm wary of it due to things like hot or neutral wired to ground inside their units (), and am concerned with reliability as well.

Keep in mind though, for a highly used tool, I'm the type to prefer to buy once and be done rather than buy cheap goods and spend a lot more in the end.

[tomas1808]

Hmm, you left me thinking with that last line.

I dont have that extra money but maybe I could sell some stuff.

I am thinking of selling a book called "Recording The Beatles" that is worth quite a bit. It is extremely good book but I am too young to be storing my money in "collectibles".

I am not too fond of having to carry a step-down transformer with the soldering station though.

Undecided...

[jbomba]

ok so i am in contact with some chinese suppliers and im trying to source one of the  220v transformers used in the replica to install inmy genuine model. Ill keep you guys posted on how i get on. Might even get a few more in if anyones interested

[junggwok]

Thought I will provide some clarifications about the subject

Just came back from a trip to China, purchased two Hakko FX-888D from Hakko's store in Shanghai (one genuine and one fake) fake one was purchased a electronics store close by. Thought I'll compare them both and with my genuine FX-888D in Australia. The one from Hakko's store is  absolutely identical  to my Australian version, except the one from China says 220V 50Hz/60Hz at the bottom of the panel. Inside the unit, however it actually says 220/230v/240v 50Hz on the transformer, my Australian one says 240v only. Absolutely a bargain from China, I paid $75 AUS dollars for. it.  Interestingly, the fake one cost about half the price, "37 AUS dollars", inside the fake one, there is no MCU and control is analogue with a LM324. The ceramic heater seems to be different of poorer quality as it heats a bit slower as well. Oh yeah FX-888 retails a bit more in China then FX-888D, (except 5 dollars more)

From what I can tell, the "genuine" from Hakko China seems to identical to the Australian version, however the cheaper "locally produced" version still seems to be virtually the same (even down to minor details).

Just because some fx-888s might seem too good to be counterfeit. Well, to be honest the 37 dollar one I got was a damn good copy, for $37 dollars, I couldn't care less. Hakko is making huge profits by selling 220/240v versions at 2.5 to 3 times price then the 110V ones

I will upload some pictures I took while taking them apart.

[Hydrawerk]

inside the fake one, there is no MCU and control is analogue with a LM324.

What's the advatage of the MCU control? DOes it work better?

[saturation]

Great, can you add pics of the counterfeit one and compare them side by side with the original?

Thought I will provide some clarifications about the subject

I will upload some pictures I took while taking them apart.

[junggwok]

inside the fake one, there is no MCU and control is analogue with a LM324.

What's the advatage of the MCU control? DOes it work better?

MCU really does not make much difference with a simple iron like this, but it shows it was the only part the counterfeiters not willing to reproduce. (they have done it for everything else).

[amyk]

Just came back from a trip to China, purchased two Hakko FX-888D from Hakko's store in Shanghai (one genuine and one fake) fake one was purchased a electronics store close by.

Did you say you bought a fake FX-888D... which doesn't use an MCU?

[junggwok]

Just came back from a trip to China, purchased two Hakko FX-888D from Hakko's store in Shanghai (one genuine and one fake) fake one was purchased a electronics store close by.

Did you say you bought a fake FX-888D... which doesn't use an MCU?

I have bought 2 FX-888Ds from China, one genuine and one counterfeit. Also I have a genuine FX-888D purchased here in Australia. The fake one does not use an MCU.

[Smithy]

Just came back from a trip to China, purchased two Hakko FX-888D from Hakko's store in Shanghai (one genuine and one fake) fake one was purchased a electronics store close by.

Did you say you bought a fake FX-888D... which doesn't use an MCU?

I have bought 2 FX-888Ds from China, one genuine and one counterfeit. Also I have a genuine FX-888D purchased here in Australia. The fake one does not use an MCU.

 

If the fake does'nt have an MCU then how is it measuring temp and driving the 7 segment display?

[amyk]

Just came back from a trip to China, purchased two Hakko FX-888D from Hakko's store in Shanghai (one genuine and one fake) fake one was purchased a electronics store close by.

Did you say you bought a fake FX-888D... which doesn't use an MCU?

I have bought 2 FX-888Ds from China, one genuine and one counterfeit. Also I have a genuine FX-888D purchased here in Australia. The fake one does not use an MCU.

 

If the fake does'nt have an MCU then how is it measuring temp and driving the 7 segment display?

Exactly what I was thinking when I asked that.

[junggwok]

Just came back from a trip to China, purchased two Hakko FX-888D from Hakko's store in Shanghai (one genuine and one fake) fake one was purchased a electronics store close by.

Did you say you bought a fake FX-888D... which doesn't use an MCU?

I have bought 2 FX-888Ds from China, one genuine and one counterfeit. Also I have a genuine FX-888D purchased here in Australia. The fake one does not use an MCU.

 

If the fake does'nt have an MCU then how is it measuring temp and driving the 7 segment display?

It does have an IC to drive the 7 segment display (didn't take a close look, I remembered it was a box standard Maxim chip, it does not use a MCU to sensor temp, it is done by LM324

[amyk]

An ICL7106? And what about the buttons? Is there other discrete logic to handle the setting?

Very odd... even a single MCU to drive the display would probably be much cheaper...

[avrnoob]

Hey guys, I've asked several sellers on aliexpress and they all say similiar that this is "a high imitation products, but the function and quality are the same". So it's indeed a replica.
What bothers me is not a station but the iron itself, does it has a good heater as hakko one or not. Can someone open and compare?

[amyk]

Of course they're not going to say "this is horrible crap, nowhere near as good as the original"!

You may find this thread of interest.

[ThedboBoy]

I've also got one of the Chinese Hakko FX-888 "fakes" or "clones". I've done up a review on my blog if anyone is interested. http://electronicsreviewsblog.info/hakko-fx-888-soldering-iron-review-teardown-chinese-version/

For what it's worth it's not that bad but I also wouldn't describe it as awesome. Can't see how it compares to the genuine article as I don't have access to one of them. Price was right tho 

[avrnoob]

Well, I ordered one for myself, because original 220V cost around $500 here.
So mine internals look the same as from ThedboBoy's review. But mine cut cost all the way, they forget to put wet sponge and rubber feet for iron holder base.
Then rubber cleaner... well, it's made of rubber, not silicone rubber. When I tried to clean iron (<300C) this rubber just melted and produced smoke   
And that silicone inserts in the holder made of not silicone rubber too and melt easily. Iron wire actually made of silicone and feels good, not melting 
Changed heater to original (or good looking fake), one which was there is totally fake.

[lpc32]

What's that dent/burn mark on the transformer, near the white wires (posted earlier in the thread)?



Same thing in this blog post:


Or on mine:

[continuo]

They welded the steel laminations of the core, look at the image below:





I think they do this to reduce hum, but i'm not entirely sure, there may be other reasons for it... 

[lpc32]

I assumed something of the sort, but it's strange that there's a dent and scorch marks, and not just a bump of molten metal.

[Refrigerator]

I assumed something of the sort, but it's strange that there's a dent and scorch marks, and not just a bump of molten metal.

What you see ther is an example of a crappy welding job, could be wrong electrode or wrong gas.

[lpc32]

Unless it's close batches, they seem to be doing it pretty consistently.

[MarkDennehy]

Well, poop. Wish I'd read this thread a little earlier. I thought I was buying end-of-line old stock but nope, knock-off.



For those who bought these things, a question - how have the fakes held up? Did they last three weeks and then crap out or are they still ticking along?

[avrnoob]

For those who bought these things, a question - how have the fakes held up? Did they last three weeks and then crap out or are they still ticking along?

Mine still works great, almost 2.5 years already.

[hemdale]

Great topic and it seems FX888 replicas are everywhere. Do you guys know if it's still possible to purchase an "old" FX888 since I'd rather stick to a knob control rather than the digital control of the FX888D ?

Many thanks

[amyk]

Great topic and it seems FX888 replicas are everywhere. Do you guys know if it's still possible to purchase an "old" FX888 since I'd rather stick to a knob control rather than the digital control of the FX888D ?

Many thanks

Used would probably be the only choice if you really want a genuine one.

And I'm not surprised the fakes still work, they're based on the same internals as the generic 936-style stations (the ones without Hakko on them) and there's not much to go wrong.