TS100 doesn't function properly when earthed

[Rooster Cogburn]

Hi all,

I just received my TS100. A known issue with these irons (as discussed on this very forum) is the non-ESD safety / AC voltage on the tip. Most SMPS are not earth-referenced and floating and they tend to leak some AC current. I have a 24V brick and a bench PSU available for powering my TS100. Both have a three prong IEC connectors, are floating and leak AC. Bench PSU ~30VAC to ground and brick is ~80VAC. This propagates to the tip of the TS100. Clearly this needs to be addressed before working on sensitive parts. Thankfully, the TS100 has dedicated earth screw on the body. When I build myself a cable for it I made sure to get a 3-core one so I could attach a cable shoe to the earth terminal.

Now, to my great confusion, the otherwise functional TS100 does not work anymore once a connection between the ground screw and mains earth has been established. The measured temperature just jumps randomly all over the place. Proper temperature readouts resume as soon as the earth connection is removed.

I'd be interested in why this happens, if other people have the same issue and what I can do to get an ESD-safe TS100 setup.

Thanks!

[Gyro]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

It sounds as if you have something screwy going on there. Mains adapters with 3-pin IEC connectors almost always have their outputs earthed. Those that don't have their interference suppression component leakage currents returned to mains earth (unless they are cheap fakes of course. It is also very unusual to find a bench PSU that puts out any significant leakage current to earth.

It seems quite likely that the TS100 is being upset by a high supply leakage current when you earth it (I suppose it might be a faulty one but it seems unlikely), the question is, where is it coming from?

The first thing to do is to turn everything off and use a meter to check continuity between the barrel of the mains adapter output connector and the earth pin on its IEC input connector. Do the same with the chassis of the Bench PSU and its IEC connector earth pin. The next thing to check is the earth continuity of the IEC cable(s) themselves.

What were you using as the earth reference when you measured those floating voltages on the Adapter and Bench PSU?  It's possible that this reference is not earthed or has some leakage current on it - there should at least be continuity between this point and the chassis of the Bench PSU.

Hopefully these tests will turn something up.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Thanks!

I bought a 24V/6A brick PSU from Amazon for the TS100. I made sure it's a 3-prong to hopefully get a better unit. It's not like Amazon product reviews tell you about earthing & ripple & y-caps

Here:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61mWltnhadL._SL1000_.jpg

This brick PSU is certainly not mains earth referenced and leaks plenty of AC like most SMPS units. You're right, you might expect something better from a 3-prong device, but I didn't think much about it. Earth is certainly connected to the unit, but since it has no metal case and is one of those plastic welded shut things I can't probe much further.

My bench PSU is an Eventek KPS305D. It's rather low-end, but served me well so far. It's not mains earth referenced either. Has no ground terminal on the front. The output is floating. The case is painted but if I poke around a bit I can find some exposed metal parts that have a low resistance path to mains ground. It also leaks plenty VAC.

My reference earth is mains earth. Earthing on my bench power strip is working as intended. I live in an old house with 2-wire electricity, so we have neutral & earth bridged at the power socket. I know that's bad, I know why that's bad, don't like it, can't change it

I must have like a hundred devices here with cheap SMPS that each have ~50% mains VAC between their ground and mains earth. My Anker USB charger, my TV, etc. My point is, I'm surprised that the TS100 is so upset by this. I thought that was the point of an earthing point on the iron. I bet that every single of those SMPSs included in TS100 kits leaks like half mains VAC. Funny thing, if I simply touch the earth pin on a power socket with one hand and and the tip of the TS100 with the other it's enough to make the temperature sensing go crazy.

[Gyro]

It sounds like you have a good handle on exactly what is going on then. Regarding the mains supply ground, I can well understand that you're stuck with it. Hopefully you don't have issues with non-bonded plumbing etc.

Personally, I would treat the non-earthed output mains adapter as grounds for return to Amazon, if the output is floating and leaking like that then it suggests that the IEC earth pin isn't actually internally connected. A dodgy sign in my book, who knows what other liberties have been taken inside.    You would almost certainly be better off with a second-hand major brand name brick off ebay.

For the bench supply, in your general situation, you might want to consider providing a ground lead from a chassis screw so that you can earth the output when you wish/need to do so.

Regarding the TS100 itself. The connector barrel outer (negative) contact is AC decoupled to the tip via a 100nF capacitor (C26, schematic attached). I would have thought 
that would have shunted quite a lot of the (typically 2200pf) Y cap leakage current. I don't know what the voltage rating of C26 is, it's an smd part. There is bound to be some parasitic capacitance between the tip metalwork and the thermocouple / element and a little leakage current too. That might be enough to unsettle the thermocouple sensing, but with C26 shunting the majority of the leakage current, I'm surprised.

Just a though, try checking for DC continuity between the connector barrel and the tip - there's always the possibility of a faulty tip I suppose.

In my iron (with and earthed brick) I have bridged across C26 to provide tip earthing without the inconvenience of a separate earth wire. There is a small voltage on the tip as a result of cable resistance, but it is very low. Obviously not something that you can consider until your PSU leakage issues and stability are under control.

One other suggestion that might work is to change the firmware to Railm's. It uses different (uses more CPU H/W features than the stock f/w) the difference in the control loop might be more resilient, I don't have great hopes of that fixing the problem though. [EDIT: https://github.com/Ralim/ts100 ]

You can probably tell that I am running out of ideas at this point...

[sn4k3]

That cheap power supply sucks, and often not earthed, even when they have 3 pins on board, most of them just connect two wires, so the 3 pin cable is just to lie to the customer.
I recommend a DIY PSU: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2847365 that way you know what you have.
You can also try to direct connect the TS100 earth to earth socket and see if same wierd things happen. Or open your power supply and check connections and build

[Rooster Cogburn]

I like your 2-wire solution. I didn't want to order some special soldering iron cord, so I just got the thinnest silicone 3-core cable I could find that still had conductors with appropriate diameter for the current. It's a bit heavy, would be much easier to find a good heat resistant & flexible 2-core cable

Had a quick look through the house, I don't think I own any other earthed PSU. In my entertainment setup everything is 2-prong SMPS & leaking AC to the point where I grounded my video switcher as I was tired of getting zapped

So, how is a properly grounded PSU actually wired? Simply a bridge between mains earth and DC out negative? Can't I just do this myself at the output? I can return mine to Amazon, but I'm not even sure how/where to buy such a power supply, they seem highly exotic. Can't find anything good looking locally on eBay and I think the one I bought was the only one Amazon sold with a three prong connector. So it's a bit strange that the TS100 would expect a grounded PSU (which 99% of 24V PSUs seemingly aren't), especially if it has an earthing point that you apparently can't actually use until you got one of those

I can actually measure 100nF between negative input & tip, all good!

sn4k3 - What do you mean by directly connect the TS100 earth to earth socket? Unless I misunderstand you that's exactly what I've been doing. I connect the earthing screw on the TS100 to mains earth. Even just touch the earth screw with my finger causes the temperature to start fluctuating since my body is obviously reasonably close to mains earth.

Edit: I just tried tying DC out negative on my PSU to mains earth, still got ~10VAC potential to mains earth on the iron tip. But now if I earth the tip through the ground screw, temperature sensing continues to work fine. Interesting.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Be careful running the TS100 with a 6A capable supply, even at 24V, you're likely to blow out the MOSFET quickly.

[Gyro]

It's a bit heavy, would be much easier to find a good heat resistant & flexible 2-core cable

Yes, you can find it on ebay (where else!  )

So, how is a properly grounded PSU actually wired? Simply a bridge between mains earth and DC out negative? Can't I just do this myself at the output? I can return mine to Amazon, but I'm not even sure how/where to buy such a power supply, they seem highly exotic. Can't find anything good looking locally on eBay and I think the one I bought was the only one Amazon sold with a three prong connector. So it's a bit strange that the TS100 would expect a grounded PSU (which 99% of 24V PSUs seemingly aren't), especially if it has an earthing point that you apparently can't actually use until you got one of those

Yes, exactly that, just mains ground to output negative. As I say, I'm suspicious of 3-pin bricks that don't do this. As far as the TS100 requiring a grounded PSU, this isn't an issue that I've seen being flagged, quite a few reports of poor quality bricks fading and causing a reset when the heater powers up (not your case - those go back to the start screen) but I don't remember yours being a common problem.

Edit: I just tried tying DC - on my PSU to mains earth, still got ~10VAC potential to mains earth on the tip. But now if I earth the tip, temperature sensing works fine. Interesting.

That's curious, unless your meter is measuring some 'phantom' effect then I still get the suspicion that there's something screwy going on with your mains earth connection (aside from your incoming 2-wire supply issue). There's a very good connection between the earthing screw and tip (again, check continuity) so the 10VAC can't be coming from there. It sounds more like the voltage drop across a length of conductor carrying significant current, (maybe a high resistance joint in the mains neutral/earth wiring?). Best to proceed with caution, particularly if tempted to use the current range of your meter!

[Gyro]

Be careful running the TS100 with a 6A capable supply, even at 24V, you're likely to blow out the MOSFET quickly.

I believe that problem has only been reported once - with a faulty element. I've been running mine at 24V for a long time now.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Be careful running the TS100 with a 6A capable supply, even at 24V, you're likely to blow out the MOSFET quickly.

I believe that problem has only been reported once - with a faulty element. I've been running mine at 24V for a long time now.

Mine will go above the rated output power if I don't current-limit the input, it's possible newer revisions have fixed that; but this video is from March

[sn4k3]

I like your 2-wire solution. I didn't want to order some special soldering iron cord, so I just got the thinnest silicone 3-core cable I could find that still had conductors with appropriate diameter for the current. It's a bit heavy, would be much easier to find a good heat resistant & flexible 2-core cable

Had a quick look through the house, I don't think I own any other earthed PSU. In my entertainment setup everything is 2-prong SMPS & leaking AC to the point where I grounded my video switcher as I was tired of getting zapped

So, how is a properly grounded PSU actually wired? Simply a bridge between mains earth and DC out negative? Can't I just do this myself at the output? I can return mine to Amazon, but I'm not even sure how/where to buy such a power supply, they seem highly exotic. Can't find anything good looking locally on eBay and I think the one I bought was the only one Amazon sold with a three prong connector. So it's a bit strange that the TS100 would expect a grounded PSU (which 99% of 24V PSUs seemingly aren't), especially if it has an earthing point that you apparently can't actually use until you got one of those

I can actually measure 100nF between negative input & tip, all good!

sn4k3 - What do you mean by directly connect the TS100 earth to earth socket? Unless I misunderstand you that's exactly what I've been doing. I connect the earthing screw on the TS100 to mains earth. Even just touch the earth screw with my finger causes the temperature to start fluctuating since my body is obviously reasonably close to mains earth.

Edit: I just tried tying DC out negative on my PSU to mains earth, still got ~10VAC potential to mains earth on the iron tip. But now if I earth the tip through the ground screw, temperature sensing continues to work fine. Interesting.

You can try mains earth and DC out negative, some designs use that and recommend it as well when proper earth is missing.
Also try a 1MOhm resistor in series from earth to TS100 earth

[Gyro]

Be careful running the TS100 with a 6A capable supply, even at 24V, you're likely to blow out the MOSFET quickly.

I believe that problem has only been reported once - with a faulty element. I've been running mine at 24V for a long time now.

Mine will go above the rated output power if I don't current-limit the input, it's possible newer revisions have fixed that; but this video is from March

Interesting - no, mine is a first version one, from last year sometime. I use the Ralim firmware, maybe that controls the heater current better (the MOSFET drive is AC coupled anyway, so it's impossible to turn it on continuously whichever firmware). It might also be a new version problem, MOSFET part change? Worth looking out for in that case.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Yes, exactly that, just mains ground to output negative. As I say, I'm suspicious of 3-pin bricks that don't do this. As far as the TS100 requiring a grounded PSU, this isn't an issue that I've seen being flagged, quite a few reports of poor quality bricks fading and causing a reset when the heater powers up (not your case - those go back to the start screen) but I don't remember yours being a common problem.

I actually think mine has reset a couple of times. I just got the iron, so I'm not used to what it does when it goes into sleep mode etc. Looks like the PSU I bought is a total PoS, I'll keep going with my bench supply till I got a better one. I also haven't updated the firmware yet (I'll likely end up running the open source replacement one you linked).

Edit: I just tried tying DC - on my PSU to mains earth, still got ~10VAC potential to mains earth on the tip. But now if I earth the tip, temperature sensing works fine. Interesting.

That's curious, unless your meter is measuring some 'phantom' effect then I still get the suspicion that there's something screwy going on with your mains earth connection (aside from your incoming 2-wire supply issue). There's a very good connection between the earthing screw and tip (again, check continuity) so the 10VAC can't be coming from there. It sounds more like the voltage drop across a length of conductor carrying significant current, (maybe a high resistance joint in the mains neutral/earth wiring?). Best to proceed with caution, particularly if tempted to use the current range of your meter!

I just bought a replacement fuse 400mA ;-) I checked the wiring, the neutral/earth bridge is working correctly. I measured again and to be more clear:

- no grounding on iron & no grounding PSU: ~80VAC to mains earth
- no grounding on iron & grounding PSU: ~1.5VAC to mains earth
- grounding on iron & grounding PSU: ~0.015 VAC to mains earth

So that looks good? Actually, isn't option 3 just what you did? You got a grounded PSU and bridged C26 to get negative on the tip, I'm just doing it with three wires and attach to the tip through the ground screw.

You can try mains earth and DC out negative, some designs use that and recommend it as well when proper earth is missing.
Also try a 1MOhm resistor in series from earth to TS100 earth

This also won't work. If I just touch the earth screw on the iron the temperature measurements start fluctuating. Gets worse when I ground myself with mains earth. So it seems that if you have a PSU with significant AC leakage you can't just ground the tip without screwing with the thermocouple or however that works (I admit I have no clue about how soldering iron heating elements actually work...).

Is there a quality, ready-build, earthed brick PSU I can buy somewhere in Europeland? I don't want to build a kit as SMPSs are quite complicated and I don't trust myself with mains voltage yet

[MacMeter]

Be careful running the TS100 with a 6A capable supply, even at 24V, you're likely to blow out the MOSFET quickly.

I believe that problem has only been reported once - with a faulty element. I've been running mine at 24V for a long time now.

Mine will go above the rated output power if I don't current-limit the input, it's possible newer revisions have fixed that; but this video is from March

I had a brief back and forth with that video author, after seeing the same video in another thread here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/choosingunderstanding-the-right-powersuply-for-the-ts100/msg1473804/#msg1473804

[Rooster Cogburn]

I had a brief back and forth with that video author, after seeing the same video in another thread here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/choosingunderstanding-the-right-powersuply-for-the-ts100/msg1473804/#msg1473804

I think I saw exactly that and made sure to test my tips before powering on, seems all good so far!

[Gyro]

I had a brief back and forth with that video author, after seeing the same video in another thread here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/choosingunderstanding-the-right-powersuply-for-the-ts100/msg1473804/#msg1473804

Good to know, thanks. I haven't experienced a bad tip yet. A shorted tip would certainly be a good reason for a shorted mosfet with a high current supply!

[Gyro]

I just bought a replacement fuse 400mA ;-) I checked the wiring, the neutral/earth bridge is working correctly. I measured again and to be more clear:

- no grounding on iron & no grounding PSU: ~80VAC to mains earth
- no grounding on iron & grounding PSU: ~1.5VAC to mains earth
- grounding on iron & grounding PSU: ~0.015 VAC to mains earth

So that looks good? Actually, isn't option 3 just what you did? You got a grounded PSU and bridged C26 to get negative on the tip, I'm just doing it with three wires and attach to the tip through the ground screw.

Yes, that all looks good. Grounding the tip by bridging C26 is almost as good as your option 3, the difference is that the tip 'sees' the voltage drop across the negative conductor (due to heater current). on my setup it results in ~0.1 to 0.2V which is low enough for me to be comfortable. Using 3 cores and the ground screw is the ultimate - but less convenient.

Is there a quality, ready-build, earthed brick PSU I can buy somewhere in Europeland? I don't want to build a kit as SMPSs are quite complicated and I don't trust myself with mains voltage yet

There are some Chinese brands that are much higher quality than others (effectively main brand) these include Meanwell, Delta, LTE etc. Avoid anything that doesn't have a brand name. As I mentioned previously, a second hand main brand Sony, Dell, Lenovo, HP etc. off ebay would be good. You might have to sacrifice a couple of volts but I think some are 23V 90W.

[janoc]

That cheap power supply sucks, and often not earthed, even when they have 3 pins on board, most of them just connect two wires, so the 3 pin cable is just to lie to the customer.
I recommend a DIY PSU: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2847365 that way you know what you have.
You can also try to direct connect the TS100 earth to earth socket and see if same wierd things happen. Or open your power supply and check connections and build

So you recommend him to 3D print an enclosure for a random no-name $7 SMPS module from China? 

The build quality of those modules is plainly visible from the photos already - even if those Nichicon caps are genuine (unlikely, given the price of the entire thing), they are neatly tucked inside of the heatsink so they will last long for sure like that. The connectors are mounted crooked, etc. The second Geekcreit branded one is a bit better but only slightly.

So yes, with that the OP will certainly know what they are getting. OP can suspect that his supply from Amazon is crap however if they follow your recommendation, they will know it being one for sure.

Totally ridiculous considering you can get a decent, known safe, supply for 50 bucks or so:
http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/veh150ps24/power-supply-150w-24v-6-25a/dp/2365130

How much is your safety and your house/apartment worth that you would rely on a $7 mains module like this?

[Rooster Cogburn]

Is there a quality, ready-build, earthed brick PSU I can buy somewhere in Europeland? I don't want to build a kit as SMPSs are quite complicated and I don't trust myself with mains voltage yet

There are some Chinese brands that are much higher quality than others (effectively main brand) these include Meanwell, Delta, LTE etc. Avoid anything that doesn't have a brand name. As I mentioned previously, a second hand main brand Sony, Dell, Lenovo, HP etc. off ebay would be good. You might have to sacrifice a couple of volts but I think some are 23V 90W.

Thanks, great advice. Had a look inside my power brick, looks bad, earth is not even connected:

 

The Mean Well PSUs seem readily available at decent prices. I found a spec sheet for the 90W ones:

https://media.it-tronics.de/Datasheets/Power_Supplies/MeanWell/GST90A.pdf

It says 'Class I power (with earth pin)' and 'LEAKAGE CURRENT (max.) 1mA/240VAC'. That seems like a lot. Can I somehow tell from the spec sheet that the output is actually mains earth referenced?

[janoc]

Is there a quality, ready-build, earthed brick PSU I can buy somewhere in Europeland? I don't want to build a kit as SMPSs are quite complicated and I don't trust myself with mains voltage yet

One option are laptop power bricks - however those output around 19-20V usually. Can be cheaply had from eBay and a lot of other places.

If you want new, just look at RadioSpares/RS, Farnell, Mouser and similar places. All are selling these kinds of power bricks in a range of output voltages and powers. Just choose one with the 3 pin IEC mains cable connector to have the earth connection (e.g. the XP power one I have linked in the post above).

It says 'Class I power (with earth pin)' and 'LEAKAGE CURRENT (max.) 1mA/240VAC'. That seems like a lot. Can I somehow tell from the spec sheet that the output is actually mains earth referenced?

My guess is that it isn't - page 3, description of the output DC jack says:
"-V not connected to AC FG".

[Rooster Cogburn]

The problem is that just because it has a 3-prong input does not mean it has ground tied to mains earth or that the pin is even connected, see the picture of the brick I bought from Amazon or the Mean Well PSU. Seems like this is a rather rare design choice and hard to find.

The spec sheet of the supply you linked is neat:

https://www.prosoft.ru/cms/f/458667.pdf

Actually says 'Negative output is connected to Ground'.

After shipping it costs about as much as two TS100s, though ;-)

[Gyro]

Is there a quality, ready-build, earthed brick PSU I can buy somewhere in Europeland? I don't want to build a kit as SMPSs are quite complicated and I don't trust myself with mains voltage yet

There are some Chinese brands that are much higher quality than others (effectively main brand) these include Meanwell, Delta, LTE etc. Avoid anything that doesn't have a brand name. As I mentioned previously, a second hand main brand Sony, Dell, Lenovo, HP etc. off ebay would be good. You might have to sacrifice a couple of volts but I think some are 23V 90W.

Thanks, great advice. Had a look inside my power brick, looks bad, earth is not even connected:

 

The Mean Well PSUs seem readily available at decent prices. I found a spec sheet for the 90W ones:

https://media.it-tronics.de/Datasheets/Power_Supplies/MeanWell/GST90A.pdf

It says 'Class I power (with earth pin)' and 'LEAKAGE CURRENT (max.) 1mA/240VAC'. That seems like a lot. Can I somehow tell from the spec sheet that the output is actually mains earth referenced?

Ugh, that brick is nasty inside, I think they forgot that they needed to include space for the input side reservoir capacitor!  Hard to tell what's lurking underneath it.  Top side it's a mess - the led and primary-secondary Y-cap are pressed up against the primary side heatsink. The common mode choke is pressed right up against the AC input connector - no wonder the earth pin isn't connected. At first glance they seem to have had a reasonable stab at creepage and clearance distances on the bottom side... That's until you notice that the secondary side heatsink mounting tab is soldered within a few mm of the primary side tracks, nullifying all of the other clearances!  No attempt at reinforced insulation on the heatsinks where they come close to components. Without an earth connection it should meet the requirements of a Class II double insulated product - sadly it misses by a mile! Annotated photo attached for interest/education.

I'd send it back as very unsafe! Maybe report it to whatever your equivalent of Trading Standards is too.  An instructive teardown though, thanks!

It's a shame the Meanwell has an isolated output (the diagram does seem to indicate that). Regarding the 1mA leakage current, that is listed under the 'Input' section, I would hope that it means maximum leakage to the mains earth pin, not to the output. It may be possible to check with them, as I indicated, they are a reputable manufacturer.

For now, you might just want to pick up a second-hand 20V 65W/90W Lenovo brick from ebay. True, it will drop the maximum wattage, but the tip is well regulated so you probably won't notice in practice. The heater rarely runs flat-out anyway. Best of all, they can be had for a few Euro on ebay (make sure you pick a 3 pin input version).


EDIT: The annoying thing is that, with a little extra effort, some additional insulation and a securely fixed connection between the Input Earth pin and the Output Ground, they could have had a reasonably safe (though still nasty) product. Fundamental lack of understanding or caring I guess! 

EDIT1: Image updated. P=Primary side heatsink, S=Secondary side.

[sn4k3]

That cheap power supply sucks, and often not earthed, even when they have 3 pins on board, most of them just connect two wires, so the 3 pin cable is just to lie to the customer.
I recommend a DIY PSU: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2847365 that way you know what you have.
You can also try to direct connect the TS100 earth to earth socket and see if same wierd things happen. Or open your power supply and check connections and build

So you recommend him to 3D print an enclosure for a random no-name $7 SMPS module from China? 

The build quality of those modules is plainly visible from the photos already - even if those Nichicon caps are genuine (unlikely, given the price of the entire thing), they are neatly tucked inside of the heatsink so they will last long for sure like that. The connectors are mounted crooked, etc. The second Geekcreit branded one is a bit better but only slightly.

So yes, with that the OP will certainly know what they are getting. OP can suspect that his supply from Amazon is crap however if they follow your recommendation, they will know it being one for sure.

Totally ridiculous considering you can get a decent, known safe, supply for 50 bucks or so:
http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/veh150ps24/power-supply-150w-24v-6-25a/dp/2365130

How much is your safety and your house/apartment worth that you would rely on a $7 mains module like this?

I think you dont have understood my suggestion. The case yes and wiring for better handle mobility and turn TS100 into a fixed station [Looks, usability and convenience]. The psu however you can use your own and is self picked, The recommended PSU on that post is for people who need something that work and cheap, but they can choose whatever they fell best (If fit inside).
I have built some solder station using that power supplies and very people does the same with T12, and so far i can't say bad about them, they work, nothing bad happen so far, reliable and is within spec, the feedbacks are very positive with the Geekcreit. About security i have tested them too, i have blow 4 in total (2 modules each), i have shorted mains 220v in a test porpuse and nothing bad happen (No fire, no burn, no flying pieces, no external damage outside the module) the fuse have blow, two burn resistors and the transistors shorted on the 9A version, again no fire, no burn pcb or serious damage but psu become unusable of course and not worth the repair, still i consider this kinda of safe for the use, i have seen laptop original branded DC bricks cath fire in front of me only by normal use so i think nothing is 100% safe in the real world. At DC side shorting does nothing, after remove the short the system starts normally and the current metter or iron are not affected.
A solder station is a kind of equipament that you won't let it ON while not using for a while or not present for long, so the risk is even smaller, the case have a Mains switch that is very pratical.
If you are still not convinced with any china module the case allow you to connect a external DC power supply to the DC jack, so i can't see nothing wrong with this setup. As bonus you can fit that trusty DC brick inside the case if you want to hide it.

[MacMeter]

Is there a quality, ready-build, earthed brick PSU I can buy somewhere in Europeland? I don't want to build a kit as SMPSs are quite complicated and I don't trust myself with mains voltage yet

There are some Chinese brands that are much higher quality than others (effectively main brand) these include Meanwell, Delta, LTE etc. Avoid anything that doesn't have a brand name. As I mentioned previously, a second hand main brand Sony, Dell, Lenovo, HP etc. off ebay would be good. You might have to sacrifice a couple of volts but I think some are 23V 90W.

Thanks, great advice. Had a look inside my power brick, looks bad, earth is not even connected:

 

The Mean Well PSUs seem readily available at decent prices. I found a spec sheet for the 90W ones:

https://media.it-tronics.de/Datasheets/Power_Supplies/MeanWell/GST90A.pdf

It says 'Class I power (with earth pin)' and 'LEAKAGE CURRENT (max.) 1mA/240VAC'. That seems like a lot. Can I somehow tell from the spec sheet that the output is actually mains earth referenced?

That’s the one I’m using:
Mean Well GST90A24-P1M Regulated Switching Table Top Power Supply, 24 Volt, 3.75 Amp, 90 Watt.

NOTE: Did not come with power cord, I had a US 3-wire grounded cord.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Ugh, that brick is nasty inside, I think they forgot that they needed to include space for the input side reservoir capacitor!  Hard to tell what's lurking underneath it.  Top side it's a mess - the led and primary-secondary Y-cap are pressed up against the primary side heatsink. The common mode choke is pressed right up against the AC input connector - no wonder the earth pin isn't connected. At first glance they seem to have had a reasonable stab at creepage and clearance distances on the bottom side... That's until you notice that the secondary side heatsink mounting tab is soldered within a few mm of the primary side tracks, nullifying all of the other clearances!  No attempt at reinforced insulation on the heatsinks where they come close to components. Without an earth connection it should meet the requirements of a Class II double insulated product - sadly it misses by a mile! Annotated photo attached for interest/education.

I'd send it back as very unsafe! Maybe report it to whatever your equivalent of Trading Standards is too.  An instructive teardown though, thanks!

It's a shame the Meanwell has an isolated output (the diagram does seem to indicate that). Regarding the 1mA leakage current, that is listed under the 'Input' section, I would hope that it means maximum leakage to the mains earth pin, not to the output. It may be possible to check with them, as I indicated, they are a reputable manufacturer.

For now, you might just want to pick up a second-hand 20V 65W/90W Lenovo brick from ebay. True, it will drop the maximum wattage, but the tip is well regulated so you probably won't notice in practice. The heater rarely runs flat-out anyway. Best of all, they can be had for a few Euro on ebay (make sure you pick a 3 pin input version).


EDIT: The annoying thing is that, with a little extra effort, some additional insulation and a securely fixed connection between the Input Earth pin and the Output Ground, they could have had a reasonably safe (though still nasty) product. Fundamental lack of understanding or caring I guess! 

EDIT1: Image updated. P=Primary side heatsink, S=Secondary side.

Yeah, sending that PSU back. I've build a few linear PSUs with transformer, rectifier, filtering cap, 78xx regulator etc., but haven't looked too deeply into SMPSs yet. I now have some examples of what not to do

I've gotten some very good suggestions for PSUs, thanks everyone! Tomorrow is flea market here, I'll see if I can find a 3-prong laptop power brick from Lenovo, Dell etc. If not, I'll either order one from eBay or shell out the cash for one of the Mean Well / XP Power ones.


I did some more experiments with the firmware. I tried the well-known firmware from Ralim, but I'm having this bug: https://github.com/Ralim/ts100/issues/261. Basically, the temperature climbs smoothly to the set one and then randomly fluctuates ~30C. Can't really use it. I switched back to the official firmware and noticed something peculiar. The temperature readout fluctuations I described when I ground the tip without also grounding the PSU only happen once I set a temperature >300C. Anything below is completely stable. Only goes crazy above it. Really weird.

[technogeeky]

Ugh, that brick is nasty inside, I think they forgot that they needed to include space for the input side reservoir capacitor!

I actually use one of these to power an Agilent spectrum analyzer. Perhaps unwisely. Hah. My favorite part is the brand name for these is Minger which is slang (in the UK) for an unattractive woman.

[MacMeter]

Here are some quick tests I did with a BM235 DMM.
TS100, with version 2.02 Ralim’s GitHub open source firmware.
Mean Well 24 voltS DC, 90 watt, switching power supply with ground plug.
Iron plugged in, but not powered on to heat. *Heating up the iron did not effect voltage readings.

TIP to EARTH GROUND = 14 volts AC. * Power supply GROUNDED
TIP to EARTH GROUND = 58 volts AC. * Power supply UNGROUNDED (used a 3-2 ground lift)

Using supplied TS100 ground clip from units ground screw to earth ground: VOLTAGE = ZERO

Last test was in response to the original poster.
I observed the irons on screen behavior while placing and removing the ground clip wire from iron to earth ground.
Temp set to 650F, while UNGROUNDED, iron reaches set temp and stabilizes.

With iron earth GROUNED, the temperature hovers around set temp, but is JUMPY, can see quick jumps up to 675F. The onscreen HEATER ICON, is indicating iron is constantly heating/cooling. As soon as earth GROUND is REMOVED, unit behaves normally again, temp stabilizes, heater icon stays OFF.

I have not tested the supplied firmware. I’ll pass this on to the open source firmware author.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Here are some quick tests I did with a BM235 DMM.
TS100, with version 2.02 Ralim’s GitHub open source firmware.
Mean Well 24 voltS DC, 90 watt, switching power supply with ground plug.
Iron plugged in, but not powered on to heat. *Heating up the iron did not effect voltage readings.

TIP to EARTH GROUND = 14 volts AC. * Power supply GROUNDED
TIP to EARTH GROUND = 58 volts AC. * Power supply UNGROUNDED (used a 3-2 ground lift)

Using supplied TS100 ground clip from units ground screw to earth ground: VOLTAGE = ZERO

Last test was in response to the original poster.
I observed the irons on screen behavior while placing and removing the ground clip wire from iron to earth ground.
Temp set to 650F, while UNGROUNDED, iron reaches set temp and stabilizes.

With iron earth GROUNED, the temperature hovers around set temp, but is JUMPY, can see quick jumps up to 675F. The onscreen HEATER ICON, is indicating iron is constantly heating/cooling. As soon as earth GROUND is REMOVED, unit behaves normally again, temp stabilizes, heater icon stays OFF.

I have not tested the supplied firmware. I’ll pass this on to the open source firmware author.

That's very interesting. Seems like the Mean Well PSU uses ground to dissipate some of the AC leakage, but does not directly die DC negative out to ground.

I tried a few versions of Ralim's firmware, none of them work reliably. Temperature rises smoothly to the set one and then just randomly jumps around, regardless of the grounding situation. With the the stock firmware it's stable, unless I ground the tip without grounding the PSU.

I also posted on the Mini forums:

http://www.minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=3132&extra=page%3D1

You could also report your findings there. There seems to be a problem with temperature sensing + hard grounding.

[MacMeter]

Here are some quick tests I did with a BM235 DMM.
TS100, with version 2.02 Ralim’s GitHub open source firmware.
Mean Well 24 voltS DC, 90 watt, switching power supply with ground plug.
Iron plugged in, but not powered on to heat. *Heating up the iron did not effect voltage readings.

TIP to EARTH GROUND = 14 volts AC. * Power supply GROUNDED
TIP to EARTH GROUND = 58 volts AC. * Power supply UNGROUNDED (used a 3-2 ground lift)

Using supplied TS100 ground clip from units ground screw to earth ground: VOLTAGE = ZERO

Last test was in response to the original poster.
I observed the irons on screen behavior while placing and removing the ground clip wire from iron to earth ground.
Temp set to 650F, while UNGROUNDED, iron reaches set temp and stabilizes.

With iron earth GROUNED, the temperature hovers around set temp, but is JUMPY, can see quick jumps up to 675F. The onscreen HEATER ICON, is indicating iron is constantly heating/cooling. As soon as earth GROUND is REMOVED, unit behaves normally again, temp stabilizes, heater icon stays OFF.

I have not tested the supplied firmware. I’ll pass this on to the open source firmware author.

That's very interesting. Seems like the Mean Well PSU uses ground to dissipate some of the AC leakage, but does not directly die DC negative out to ground.

I tried a few versions of Ralim's firmware, none of them work reliably. Temperature rises smoothly to the set one and then just randomly jumps around, regardless of the grounding situation. With the the stock firmware it's stable, unless I ground the tip without grounding the PSU.

I also posted on the Mini forums:

http://www.minidso.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=3132&extra=page%3D1

You could also report your findings there. There seems to be a problem with temperature sensing + hard grounding.

If you haven’t tried the 2.02 version open source, give it a try. I’ve tried the later releases, and had the same issues you did, and always ended up reflashing back to the older version which works as expected. The GitHub crew is continuing work on newer versions, and since it’s easy to flash, I’ll continue to experiment with them.

[Rooster Cogburn]

If you haven’t tried the 2.02 version open source, give it a try. I’ve tried the later releases, and had the same issues you did, and always ended up reflashing back to the older version which works as expected. The GitHub crew is continuing work on newer versions, and since it’s easy to flash, I’ll continue to experiment with them.

I tried that firmware (just checked again) and it doesn't work at all for me. Temperature rises but after 2-3 seconds the firmware just crashes with the heating element permanently on. Seems to happen  every time

I got a new PSU today. 20V 3.5A Dell laptop brick, grounded, 9EUR with shipping on eBay. Seems to work great! I once had the iron reset like the power dropouts I frequently had with the crap power brick, but could not repeat it afterwards in over an hour of playing around with the iron.

Too bad I did not get any feedback / reply on the Mini forums. It seems the grounding issue might be more widespread since you also have it, but I'm a bit concerned that really none of the Ralim firmware releases seem to work on my TS100. Hope I didn't get a defective unit.

[MacMeter]

If you haven’t tried the 2.02 version open source, give it a try. I’ve tried the later releases, and had the same issues you did, and always ended up reflashing back to the older version which works as expected. The GitHub crew is continuing work on newer versions, and since it’s easy to flash, I’ll continue to experiment with them.

I tried that firmware (just checked again) and it doesn't work at all for me. Temperature rises but after 2-3 seconds the firmware just crashes with the heating element permanently on. Seems to happen  every time


I got a new PSU today. 20V 3.5A Dell laptop brick, grounded, 9EUR with shipping on eBay. Seems to work great! I once had the iron reset like the power dropouts I frequently had with the crap power brick, but could not repeat it afterwards in over an hour of playing around with the iron.

Too bad I did not get any feedback / reply on the Mini forums. It seems the grounding issue might be more widespread since you also have it, but I'm a bit concerned that really none of the Ralim firmware releases seem to work on my TS100. Hope I didn't get a defective unit.

That’s odd, I had some issues since I was flashing back and forth. If you can get it not to crash, what I’ve done is to first use the RESET function, then change all the settings to my liking, like Fahrenheit etc. Sometimes a power reboot helps. But if it’s crashing, then I don’t know what to add. If you are so inclined you could join the GitHub project to get feedback. Have not seen any reports of the firmware crashing, I’m assuming when you flash you can see the message that the firmware was successful, the main project page has more info on flashing on different platforms. I’m using a Mac laptop with no problems.

[Rooster Cogburn]

That’s odd, I had some issues since I was flashing back and forth. If you can get it not to crash, what I’ve done is to first use the RESET function, then change all the settings to my liking, like Fahrenheit etc. Sometimes a power reboot helps. But if it’s crashing, then I don’t know what to add. If you are so inclined you could join the GitHub project to get feedback. Have not seen any reports of the firmware crashing, I’m assuming when you flash you can see the message that the firmware was successful, the main project page has more info on flashing on different platforms. I’m using a Mac laptop with no problems.

I'm also using a Mac and I get the .RDY file indicating a successful update. The tip with resetting the settings first is a good one, maybe that was the issue. Basically, the iron boots up, but as soon as I enter solder mode I get like 2-3s of rising temperatures and then the display freezes and the heater is kept on. I would've reported a bug, but that was only with the older firmware and the newer one does not show this behavior. Probably not useful reporting it since it has apparently been fixed.

But your success story with a particular firmware encourage me to try some more, and it seems the latest RC fixes the issue(s) for me! I have so far only tried the actual releases, but just tried 'V2.04 Release Candidate 2' (latest as of right now). I spend half an hour de & re-soldering random components on junk boards and it seems to work just fine. No temperature fluctuations, no freezes. The boost mode is quite neat and the temperature display seems more responsive than with the official firmware. Neat!

[MacMeter]

That’s odd, I had some issues since I was flashing back and forth. If you can get it not to crash, what I’ve done is to first use the RESET function, then change all the settings to my liking, like Fahrenheit etc. Sometimes a power reboot helps. But if it’s crashing, then I don’t know what to add. If you are so inclined you could join the GitHub project to get feedback. Have not seen any reports of the firmware crashing, I’m assuming when you flash you can see the message that the firmware was successful, the main project page has more info on flashing on different platforms. I’m using a Mac laptop with no problems.

I'm also using a Mac and I get the .RDY file indicating a successful update. The tip with resetting the settings first is a good one, maybe that was the issue. Basically, the iron boots up, but as soon as I enter solder mode I get like 2-3s of rising temperatures and then the display freezes and the heater is kept on. I would've reported a bug, but that was only with the older firmware and the newer one does not show this behavior. Probably not useful reporting it since it has apparently been fixed.

But your success story with a particular firmware encourage me to try some more, and it seems the latest RC fixes the issue(s) for me! I have so far only tried the actual releases, but just tried 'V2.04 Release Candidate 2' (latest as of right now). I spend half an hour de & re-soldering random components on junk boards and it seems to work just fine. No temperature fluctuations, no freezes. The boost mode is quite neat and the temperature display seems more responsive than with the official firmware. Neat!

Glad you got it working. Boost feature is great, as well as the time out settings. I’ll play with 2.04 when it’s final, as all the versions since 2.02 I’ve tried had minor issues for me. One of the issues these firmware writers are dealing with, is there are now two different hardware versions, seems some internal parts have changed. This has added some complexity but it’s claimed they are accounting for this in their firmware. From what I remember, the info screen can show something like “PB1” for the original hardware, or “PB2”, for the newer version. On firmware 2.02, I don’t get that screen, but when playing with the newer firmware at one point, I could access that info screen, and that’s how I know mine is the older hardware version. Not that it should matter according to the firmware author.

I’m assuming no matter what firmware is used, stock, or open source, the temperature fluctuations are still an issue, and I sent that info to the author, have yet to hear back, maybe no one has tested or seen this before? Since as of now I’m not doing any board soldering, so I’ll be using mine “ungrounded”. And if I ever need to ground, I don’t think the small temp jumping will stop me from being able to melt the solder, but’s it’s GOOD to know!

[Rooster Cogburn]

Glad you got it working. Boost feature is great, as well as the time out settings. I’ll play with 2.04 when it’s final, as all the versions since 2.02 I’ve tried had minor issues for me. One of the issues these firmware writers are dealing with, is there are now two different hardware versions, seems some internal parts have changed. This has added some complexity but it’s claimed they are accounting for this in their firmware. From what I remember, the info screen can show something like “PB1” for the original hardware, or “PB2”, for the newer version. On firmware 2.02, I don’t get that screen, but when playing with the newer firmware at one point, I could access that info screen, and that’s how I know mine is the older hardware version. Not that it should matter according to the firmware author.

I'd be interested to know if I got the first or second revision. Where exactly in which firmware is that board revision supposed to show up?

I’m assuming no matter what firmware is used, stock, or open source, the temperature fluctuations are still an issue, and I sent that info to the author, have yet to hear back, maybe no one has tested or seen this before? Since as of now I’m not doing any board soldering, so I’ll be using mine “ungrounded”. And if I ever need to ground, I don’t think the small temp jumping will stop me from being able to melt the solder, but’s it’s GOOD to know!

It seems there are two issues, perhaps related.

With the stock firmware, the temperature fluctuations are clearly related to grounding / PSU AC leakage. I made a post on Mini's forum to make them aware of these findings, maybe there's something they can do in firmware or future hardware revisions.

With the Ralim firmware, it seems there's another issue. Even if I remove any earth connection or use the earthed PSU + earthed tip setup that works with the stock firmware, I have quite significant temperature fluctuations once the target temperature has been reached. There's a bug report on GitHub with many users confirming this problem.

For me, tying the DC- out of my power supply to ground did bring down the tip to mains earth potential to ~1.5VAC, you could probably quite easily do that with your setup without having to modify your cable to add an earth wire. I'm currently using a three wire cable with my new earthed power supply, but I'll replace that with a two wire cable. It's a bit heavy and it's not easy finding a silicone (flexible + burn proof) cable that's thin. With the two wire one I'll connect DC- to both the ground screw and the DC plug, giving me the same full earthing with only two wires.

[Gyro]

That’s odd, I had some issues since I was flashing back and forth. If you can get it not to crash, what I’ve done is to first use the RESET function, then change all the settings to my liking, like Fahrenheit etc. Sometimes a power reboot helps. But if it’s crashing, then I don’t know what to add. If you are so inclined you could join the GitHub project to get feedback. Have not seen any reports of the firmware crashing, I’m assuming when you flash you can see the message that the firmware was successful, the main project page has more info on flashing on different platforms. I’m using a Mac laptop with no problems.

I'm also using a Mac and I get the .RDY file indicating a successful update. The tip with resetting the settings first is a good one, maybe that was the issue. Basically, the iron boots up, but as soon as I enter solder mode I get like 2-3s of rising temperatures and then the display freezes and the heater is kept on. I would've reported a bug, but that was only with the older firmware and the newer one does not show this behavior. Probably not useful reporting it since it has apparently been fixed.

But your success story with a particular firmware encourage me to try some more, and it seems the latest RC fixes the issue(s) for me! I have so far only tried the actual releases, but just tried 'V2.04 Release Candidate 2' (latest as of right now). I spend half an hour de & re-soldering random components on junk boards and it seems to work just fine. No temperature fluctuations, no freezes. The boost mode is quite neat and the temperature display seems more responsive than with the official firmware. Neat!

Ah, progress indeed. A good deal on the brick too - it's hard to beat a main brand one, even if it is second hand (and dirt cheap!)

The reason you had no success with the Ralim older firmware is that (not surprisingly I suppose) you have the newer version of the iron - my older one works fine with it. The two versions were originally thought to be the same electrically but it was found that MiniDSO had changed the accelerometer IC (the original was discontinued it think). The change of I2C caused f/w problems.

Keep an eye on the V2.04 release candidates, Ben is working hard to optimize the temperature performance (stability) with different tip sizes. I don't think he's far from an official V2.04 now.

[Specmaster]

I also had a look at the TS100 when I was looking for a new iron setup, but instead settled for the T12 system and judging by the reports in this thread, I'm glad I did. There is no way that an iron after 2 weeks should fail and require to have the mosfets replaced at customers expense and that high leakage to the tip is also not desirable. I can report that the T12 does not have those issues, albeit the earthing on the metal case is not effective and I had to remedy it on both of my stations but the tip was suitably earthed however.

What me decide on the T12 over the TS100 was partly the high asking price for the TS100 but also the fact that there was in my opinion, problems on the horizon with the interface between power and the iron itself. I hope that it works OK for you now.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Ah, progress indeed. A good deal on the brick too - it's hard to beat a main brand one, even if it is second hand (and dirt cheap!)

I wanted to buy one at the flea market, but it had to rain that weekend Well, 9EUR is perfectly fine. The laptop charger was a good suggestion, they're a dirt cheap source of grounded, reliable PSUs. 20V vs 24V does not seem to make a difference, still getting exactly 11s for ambient - 300C.

The reason you had no success with the Ralim older firmware is that (not surprisingly I suppose) you have the newer version of the iron - my older one works fine with it. The two versions were originally thought to be the same electrically but it was found that MiniDSO had changed the accelerometer IC (the original was discontinued it think). The change of I2C caused f/w problems.

Keep an eye on the V2.04 release candidates, Ben is working hard to optimize the temperature performance (stability) with different tip sizes. I don't think he's far from an official V2.04 now.

Ok, that does explain it. I'll keep watching for the final 2.04 release!

I also had a look at the TS100 when I was looking for a new iron setup, but instead settled for the T12 system and judging by the reports in this thread, I'm glad I did. There is no way that an iron after 2 weeks should fail and require to have the mosfets replaced at customers expense and that high leakage to the tip is also not desirable. I can report that the T12 does not have those issues, albeit the earthing on the metal case is not effective and I had to remedy it on both of my stations but the tip was suitably earthed however.

What me decide on the T12 over the TS100 was partly the high asking price for the TS100 but also the fact that there was in my opinion, problems on the horizon with the interface between power and the iron itself. I hope that it works OK for you now.

At <20EUR the T12 stations do seem appealing:

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/MINI-T12-OLED-soldering-station-electronic-welding-iron-2017-New-design-DC-Version-Portable-T12-Digital/32839523934.html

Especially if you don't need the portability aspect of the TS100 (I don't). Hakko tip compatibility also seems good.

I don't mind the earthing situation on the TS100 in general, having a ground screw terminal would be sufficient for me. Problem is the design issue with the glitchy temperature display caused by removing the PSU AC leakage through the aforementioned ground screw.

If I understand correctly, the MOSFET failures are a combination of the TS100 not having any overcurrent protection and the tip being faulty. I hope by being diligent and testing the tip resistance of newly purchased tips I can avoid this fate with my iron, but it would of course be unfortunate if tips would fail with a short and then cause damage to the MOSFET. We'll see.

One thing that turned me off the TS12 was the amount of different models. I think I'd have chosen a model without internal PSU, as I couldn't be certain of the quality and it would be easier to supply a known-good one myself. Then I'd have to add a ground terminal to the station myself. Also the included handles seemed of sketchy quality and replacing them is made more difficult by each TS12 variant using a different connector.

[MacMeter]

I also had a look at the TS100 when I was looking for a new iron setup, but instead settled for the T12 system and judging by the reports in this thread, I'm glad I did. There is no way that an iron after 2 weeks should fail and require to have the mosfets replaced at customers expense and that high leakage to the tip is also not desirable. I can report that the T12 does not have those issues, albeit the earthing on the metal case is not effective and I had to remedy it on both of my stations but the tip was suitably earthed however.

What me decide on the T12 over the TS100 was partly the high asking price for the TS100 but also the fact that there was in my opinion, problems on the horizon with the interface between power and the iron itself. I hope that it works OK for you now.

The mosfet failed due to a dead short in his tip, that he neglected to test prior to using. Not sure if that would happen on your setup. Glad you are happy with your purchase, I looked at those. I would not discount the TS100 as a very useful product, they have been out for sometime with many satisfied users, including myself. Now if I had to rely on soldering boards for a hobby or living, I’d buy the new Pace station for about $250 US. If you have followed the Pace thread, you will see there are some early issues with those tips, granted it’s a brand new product and will be worked out. I’m no fanboy of any products or brands as they all have their own issues.

This thread was started by Rooster, to help in diagnosing an odd issue he discovered where the temperature on the display would be jumpy, when the iron was grounded to earth. While I don’t have the need right now to ground my iron, it does interest me, and perhaps a few others. I can still solder while grounded if need be, and the temp jumping 10-20 degrees is not a huge issue to me in my needs. There are at least 3-4 other threads on this forum debating the pluses and minuses of the TS100, let’s attempt to keep this thread on topic, which is trouble shooting a single issue.

[Specmaster]

There a lot of versions of the T12 and I see this as a good thing because people are always constantly trying to improve it and also of course, it means that its a popular choice so therefore plenty of support for it.

I went for a pre-built version https://de.aliexpress.com/item/2017-STC-T12-Digital-Soldering-Iron-Station-Temperature-Controller-EU-Plug-Temperature-180-450-Degrees-T12/32803295956.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.PXMaON (set 5) as my first option and then discovered that I was the first person it seemed to go this particular maker and was advised to look at others which I did with whats known as the Blue controller which I used to build another station up from. I used the following parts in its build https://de.aliexpress.com/item/QUICKO-Neue-Ankunft-T12-Stromversorgung-24-V-108-Watt-4-5A-f-r-OLED-LED-l/32834572016.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.PXMaON this the same psu as the ready made unit and is rock solid. Enclosure was https://de.aliexpress.com/item/SUHAN-injected-mold-table-box-enclosure-case-Alumium-alloy-shell-for-Digital-soldering-station-DIY-kits/32821952541.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.PXMaON, handle was https://de.aliexpress.com/item/Modified-FX-9501-Handle-For-T12-Oled-Digital-Display-Soldering-Station-Silicone-Line-Handle-DIY/32735591205.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.PXMaON (I modded this to use 4 pin plug to match controller) and this was the controller https://www.banggood.com/T12-Digital-Soldering-Station-OLED-Display-Control-Board-STC-Controller-Kit-p-1140746.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN which I found had a bug in its setup that could allow the tip glow red hot, so this was replaced with this https://de.aliexpress.com/item/OLED-T12-solder-iron-DIY-kits-Unit-QUICKO-Soldering-Iron-Station-parts-Temperature-Controller-T12-952Meatal/32825705805.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.PXMaON (set 1) and so far they have been brilliant.

[Gyro]

This thread was started by Rooster, to help in diagnosing an odd issue he discovered where the temperature on the display would be jumpy, when the iron was grounded to earth. While I don’t have the need right now to ground my iron, it does interest me, and perhaps a few others. I can still solder while grounded if need be, and the temp jumping 10-20 degrees is not a huge issue to me in my needs. There are at least 3-4 other threads on this forum debating the pluses and minuses of the TS100, let’s attempt to keep this thread on topic, which is trouble shooting a single issue.

^^^ What he said.

[Specmaster]

This thread was started by Rooster, to help in diagnosing an odd issue he discovered where the temperature on the display would be jumpy, when the iron was grounded to earth. While I don’t have the need right now to ground my iron, it does interest me, and perhaps a few others. I can still solder while grounded if need be, and the temp jumping 10-20 degrees is not a huge issue to me in my needs. There are at least 3-4 other threads on this forum debating the pluses and minuses of the TS100, let’s attempt to keep this thread on topic, which is trouble shooting a single issue.

^^^ What he said.

Yeh, sorry guys, I wasn't hijacking the thread at all, just a quick comment about how I almost became a TS100 owner and now, I'm glad I didn't buy one.

[MacMeter]

This thread was started by Rooster, to help in diagnosing an odd issue he discovered where the temperature on the display would be jumpy, when the iron was grounded to earth. While I don’t have the need right now to ground my iron, it does interest me, and perhaps a few others. I can still solder while grounded if need be, and the temp jumping 10-20 degrees is not a huge issue to me in my needs. There are at least 3-4 other threads on this forum debating the pluses and minuses of the TS100, let’s attempt to keep this thread on topic, which is trouble shooting a single issue.

^^^ What he said.

Yeh, sorry guys, I wasn't hijacking the thread at all, just a quick comment about how I almost became a TS100 owner and now, I'm glad I didn't buy one.

Your detailed info would be very useful in the proper place. Like many I was overwhelmed with all the choices in creating a T12 station, wish I had seen your research beforehand. I’m not big on all the cheap Chinese site offerings, and it can be difficult to sort through the good and bad. Granted, the TS100 is Chinese made, but it’s been out for awhile, and well reviewed by many smarter then me. The kit I bought even included a 20 volt PSU, so it’s a much simpler purchase at a low cost. Wish you much luck with your purchase, and if you ever need a mobile solder solution, give the TS100 a 2nd look.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I got my 2-core flexible & burn-resistant silicone cable today and build this:



If you got an earthed power supply this has the same VAC / resistance to mains earth than the three wire solution and allows for a thinner & lighter cable.

The current RC of the Ralim custom firmware is also working nicely for me.

Thanks again everybody for your input!

[MacMeter]

I got my 2-core flexible & burn-resistant silicone cable today and build this:



If you got an earthed power supply this has the same VAC / resistance to mains earth than the three wire solution and allows for a thinner & lighter cable.

The current RC of the Ralim custom firmware is also working nicely for me.

Thanks again everybody for your input!

Did the latest firmware solve the temperature fluctuations when earth grounded?

[Rooster Cogburn]

Did the latest firmware solve the temperature fluctuations when earth grounded?

I can't check with the old crappy, floating PSU since I sent it back to Amazon. But I just hooked it up to my bench PSU (which is also not earthed and has some AC leakage) and the effect seems to be a lot smaller vs the official firmware. The temperature fluctuates by +/- 5C instead of the otherwise smaller 1-2C after attaching a ground clip. So it still has some effect but it's not unusable like with the official firmware. Interesting!

[KL27x]

If you guys are just going off what the display reads, it might be less of a problem than you think.

Measuring with a tip tester might be more pertinent.

Simply using the iron is perhaps another way to see if it is working ok.

To even get a stable-appearing reading is an illusion that depends on taking the reading at the right time and averaging them. The heater is flicking on/off very quickly when the tip is near set temp, and the heater and sensor are much closer to each other than the sensor is to the tip. The millisecond to millisecond true reading on the sensor will easily vary by many degrees when the temp at the tip is perfectly stable.  So I suppose it is possible that this issue just might be more esthetics and the iron just might be working pretty close to the way an iron should.

[MacMeter]

If you guys are just going off what the display reads, it might be less of a problem than you think.

Measuring with a tip tester might be more pertinent.l

Simply using the iron is perhaps another way to see if it is working ok.

To even get a stable-appearing reading is an illusion that depends on taking the reading at the right time and averaging them. The heater is flicking on/off very quickly when the tip is near set temp, and the heater and sensor are much closer to each other than the sensor is to the tip. The millisecond to millisecond true reading on the sensor will easily vary by many degrees when the temp at the tip is perfectly stable.  So I suppose it is possible that this issue just might be more esthetics and the iron just might be working pretty close to the way an iron should.

I’ve done accurate tip temp testing, (a different thread). Very accurate. The flickering reading we are discussing here, is only seen when the iron is earth grounded, on mine the heater icon keeps showing its heating up constantly. None if this happens when the earth ground is removed. The display is rock steady and accurate in that case.

[Rooster Cogburn]

If you guys are just going off what the display reads, it might be less of a problem than you think.

Measuring with a tip tester might be more pertinent.

Simply using the iron is perhaps another way to see if it is working ok.

To even get a stable-appearing reading is an illusion that depends on taking the reading at the right time and averaging them. The heater is flicking on/off very quickly when the tip is near set temp, and the heater and sensor are much closer to each other than the sensor is to the tip. The millisecond to millisecond true reading on the sensor will easily vary by many degrees when the temp at the tip is perfectly stable.  So I suppose it is possible that this issue just might be more esthetics and the iron just might be working pretty close to the way an iron should.

Fair enough, the actual tip temperature is probably very much a huge low-pass filter over the temperature readouts. Still, there seems to be some effect on the temperature reading when draining the PSU's AC leakage current through the ground screw. It's probably best avoided, even if it's just the readout jumping up & down 50C or whatever. Thankfully that's easy to do.

btw, unrelated, but I just had to file another bug for the current RC of Ralim's firmware. Seems like the sleep mode doesn't work for me. The temperature doesn't got down properly and sometimes the TS100 gets a blank screen if left in sleep while this not-so-correctly-working sleep mode happens. Did another ~2h of soldering today and it appears to be working beautifully during normal operation, though.

[KL27x]

To expound, I have made an adjustable power iron controller using a very small tip with integrated heater. For the PWM cycle, I went with something like 3 Hz. I could have just as easily done 10's of kHz, but I just don't see it making a difference in the end. I rather know I'm getting ever so slightly more heat into the tip and less into the MOSFET via switching losses. The tip was is relatively high power to thermal mass - warm up of like 6ish seconds - and I never noticed the oscillation. So even if the thing is glitching, as long as it averages out and is not changing the set point or calibration, you might not be able to notice any practical difference... when you're soldering, at least.

[MacMeter]

If you guys are just going off what the display reads, it might be less of a problem than you think.

Measuring with a tip tester might be more pertinent.

Simply using the iron is perhaps another way to see if it is working ok.

To even get a stable-appearing reading is an illusion that depends on taking the reading at the right time and averaging them. The heater is flicking on/off very quickly when the tip is near set temp, and the heater and sensor are much closer to each other than the sensor is to the tip. The millisecond to millisecond true reading on the sensor will easily vary by many degrees when the temp at the tip is perfectly stable.  So I suppose it is possible that this issue just might be more esthetics and the iron just might be working pretty close to the way an iron should.

Fair enough, the actual tip temperature is probably very much a huge low-pass filter over the temperature readouts. Still, there seems to be some effect on the temperature reading when draining the PSU's AC leakage current through the ground screw. It's probably best avoided, even if it's just the readout jumping up & down 50C or whatever. Thankfully that's easy to do.

btw, unrelated, but I just had to file another bug for the current RC of Ralim's firmware. Seems like the sleep mode doesn't work for me. The temperature doesn't got down properly and sometimes the TS100 gets a blank screen if left in sleep while this not-so-correctly-working sleep mode happens. Did another ~2h of soldering today and it appears to be working beautifully during normal operation, though.

The sleep issue is why I went back to the older firmware 2.02. No issues with that version, other then temp jumping and heater constant on (ONLY when earth grounded). Since as of now, I’m not doing anything electronics sensitive, and solder ungrounded.

[Rooster Cogburn]

The sleep issue is why I went back to the older firmware 2.02. No issues with that version, other then temp jumping and heater constant on (ONLY when earth grounded). Since as of now, I’m not doing anything electronics sensitive, and solder ungrounded.

Ah, good to know it's not just me then. Unfortunately it seems I can't use 2.02 because that has the temperature fluctuation bug for me (and some others, judging from the bug report).

Thankfully fixing your grounding issue will be simple once you need ESD safety.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Anyone have experience with the new small TS-C1 tip for the TS100? .. Does it work for you?

[Rooster Cogburn]

Anyone have experience with the new small TS-C1 tip for the TS100? .. Does it work for you?

OT I guess, but yeah, I wanted to ask about those as well:



Are they original? Newer / older models?

[TheAmmoniacal]

I bought the TS-C1, but it's so bad I think it might be faulty? It just has no thermal capacity at all, the solder on the tip solidifies when I tack it onto a pad (ENIG, 1206) and takes 10-15 seconds before it melts again. If I then try to feed more solder to the pad the temperature drops a lot :/

Will try to compare it with my other iron, maybe this board is weird..

[Rooster Cogburn]

I bought the TS-C1, but it's so bad I think it might be faulty? It just has no thermal capacity at all, the solder on the tip solidifies when I tack it onto a pad (ENIG, 1206) and takes 10-15 seconds before it melts again. If I then try to feed more solder to the pad the temperature drops a lot :/

Will try to compare it with my other iron, maybe this board is weird..

Did you try measuring the resistance of the tip? I wonder if it's different than the ~10Ohm of the first line of tips.

[TuxKey]

Hi Everyone..

So with the help of "Rooster Cogburn" i just found out my brand spanking new power supply i got for my TS100 is not earthed.
Or as "Rooster Cogburn" put it quote from Rooster : "The Mean-Well PSUs have three prongs but are not mains earth referenced"
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/gs90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/
So that's €24 plus €8 shipping down the drain.. i will contact TME.eu tomorrow and ask for a return. That will mean i will have to return the supply somewhere in Eindhoven costing around €8 or more.. will see.

Strangely enough ONE my old dell power supplies seem to be grounded  or earth referenced.
https://imgur.com/a/NTmX5
which i had read this post before i got the dam thing.

[langwadt]

I wouldn't expect any such supply to be earth referenced.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Me neither.

Why do you want/need it earth referenced?

[TuxKey]

Guys i'm also looking for a DC power-plug and thanks to Gyro he pointed me to this one..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-Power-Plug-Socket-Male-Female-Barrel-Connector-Multiple-Sizes-Available-/292033926253

Two minor things..

1) it says " May not post to Netherlands -"
2) i think i found the same plug for less


Two options and my first instinct is to go for the more expensive one buy a little mind you..
So this option is €0,85 for 6 of them..kind of to good to be true..
https://tinyurl.com/yb4tdzpv     (used tiny-url because the url is crazy long out of this world).

but this one costing €1,84 for 5pcs sounds good and by the look of things they look a bit different theres more room between the black plastic and the plug like a ring..but in the reviews you do see pics that are the same.
https://tinyurl.com/ydf3ufz5

Also i think this seller also has the female plug in his store..

I know that certain things one should not get from china that's why i want to ask any way i can check compare know the diff between crapy and good connectors ??

Gyro was kind enough to explain the value benefit of these Fork plugs.
Direct quote from him..in regards to the benefit of these plugs

- higher current rating than the ordinary ones - several Amps vs 500mA or so.
Also

- The Female connector is less critical and should be fairly easily available.

[TuxKey]

Me neither.

Why do you want/need it earth referenced?

user "Rooster Cogburn" first post explained why check out page 1 of this topic..
Also to be honest with you when i pay €24 + €8 so €32 so $38 for a power supply i expect the third prong to do it's job..
i'm sure there is a good reason why this is not necessary and i'm by no means an expert in fact i'm green as they get hahaha..
i suspect Rooster Cogburn and Gyro go do a better job explaining it. but i believe they did.. i haven't read true the whole post but i certainly will. as i got in to this hobby to learn even as a 41yr old it nurd..

[TheAmmoniacal]

Me neither.

Why do you want/need it earth referenced?

user "Rooster Cogburn" first post explained why check out page 1 of this topic..
Also to be honest with you when i pay €24 + €8 so €32 so $38 for a power supply i expect the third prong to do it's job..
i'm sure there is a good reason why this is not necessary and i'm by no means an expert in fact i'm green as they get hahaha..
i suspect Rooster Cogburn and Gyro go do a better job explaining it. but i believe they did.. i haven't read true the whole post but i certainly will. as i got in to this hobby to learn even as a 41yr old it nurd..

My mistake.. My TS100 measures about 6 VAC between the tip and earth (11M impedance), and up to 1 mA of leakage current. This is when powered by a genuine Delta electronics ADP-40PH BB switching supply. This is very bad, might explain some of my parts failures...

I'll start using it with my isolation transformer until I've built my own supply for it.

[TuxKey]

Me neither.

Why do you want/need it earth referenced?

user "Rooster Cogburn" first post explained why check out page 1 of this topic..
Also to be honest with you when i pay €24 + €8 so €32 so $38 for a power supply i expect the third prong to do it's job..
i'm sure there is a good reason why this is not necessary and i'm by no means an expert in fact i'm green as they get hahaha..
i suspect Rooster Cogburn and Gyro go do a better job explaining it. but i believe they did.. i haven't read true the whole post but i certainly will. as i got in to this hobby to learn even as a 41yr old it nurd..

My mistake.. My TS100 measures about 6 VAC between the tip and earth (11M impedance), and up to 1 mA of leakage current. This is when powered by a genuine Delta electronics ADP-40PH BB switching supply. This is very bad, might explain some of my parts failures...

I'll start using it with my isolation transformer until I've built my own supply for it.

i would love to know how you take measurement

[TheAmmoniacal]

Me neither.

Why do you want/need it earth referenced?

user "Rooster Cogburn" first post explained why check out page 1 of this topic..
Also to be honest with you when i pay €24 + €8 so €32 so $38 for a power supply i expect the third prong to do it's job..
i'm sure there is a good reason why this is not necessary and i'm by no means an expert in fact i'm green as they get hahaha..
i suspect Rooster Cogburn and Gyro go do a better job explaining it. but i believe they did.. i haven't read true the whole post but i certainly will. as i got in to this hobby to learn even as a 41yr old it nurd..

My mistake.. My TS100 measures about 6 VAC between the tip and earth (11M impedance), and up to 1 mA of leakage current. This is when powered by a genuine Delta electronics ADP-40PH BB switching supply. This is very bad, might explain some of my parts failures...

I'll start using it with my isolation transformer until I've built my own supply for it.

i would love to know how you take measurement

Just with a multimeter, measuring from soldering iron tip to mains earth. Only did a quick AC V and A measurement this morning, will do some more later today. Didn't check the DC component.

[TuxKey]

Hi Everyone,

i'm looking for help as i'm stuck.
So i bought the mean well "GST90A24-P1M" power supply but there's no continuity between the third pin and the outside of the jack.
To my surprise there is a brick power supply form mean well that says "-V connected to AC FG" in the document sheet.

Thanks to user analogo for telling me this here i direct  quote from him.

The new GS90 series comes in two versions: GST90 (floating) and GSM90 (-V connected to earth). Ask for a replacement maybe.

end quote.

So it's this one:
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/gsm90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/
And here's the document sheet (see the last page)
https://www.tme.eu/en/Document/4ed38d683461e0b62565684de040016c/GSM90A.pdf

Since i asked tme.eu for a rma because it's not mains earth referenced.
i could get the one i mentioned above Seems to be ok ?

Or i could get this one that's 50% cheaper but more important i would have just 1meter of cable from the supply to my iron.
And all silicone.
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/lrs-100-24/built-in-power-supplies/mean-well/


Can someone with technical know how please help me with my question regarding the "MEAN WELL LRS-100-24".
i downloaded the spec sheet from the seller.
https://www.tme.eu/en/Document/1e360f24f636b4fb11943a1504f8627e/LRS-100-SPEC.pdf

And looking for something like "V connected to AC FG"..
One thing i did find was a Block Diagram..Being an absolute noob i enjoy hearing "bigclivedotcom" on youtube go true a diagram but i'm light years from really understanding what i'm seeing..
i do however recognize the ground sign from all the youtube vids i watched.. and i do see that the -v seems to be connected to a ground wire. so does that mean this power supply is not a floating one ? is it "mains earth referenced" .

i want to make the same cable user Rooster Cogburn made here. and user it with this supply
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/msg1493014/#msg1493014

or should i just forget the whole thing and get this one..and make an extension cable. buy adding a female to the male connection.
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/gsm90a24-p1m/desktop-power-supplies/mean-well/

i really need sum help because i asked to return the power supply and i want to order a new one .. and all the parts needed to use it connect to it..

[Gyro]

@TuxKey:

Wow, you do seem to have yourself tied in knots, the number of links made my head spin a bit. I agree with Rooster by the way -  it is far better to ask questions on the forum thread rather than PMs to several people. Then other people can benefit from the information too.


First, let's understand fundamentals:

 The reason that the TS100 doesn't like floating PSUs (floating in this context meaning 2 pin mains or fake 3 pin) is that the output floats to half mains voltage due to the EMC filter caps. It is not surprising that the temperature sensing gets disturbed when the element and thermocouple in the tip are floating at ~115V AC and the surrounding tip is grounded. The thermocouple is arranged to have best possible thermal coupling so it is inevitable that there is some capacitive and resistive leakage current. The thermocouple sensing circuit is looking for mV levels. I suspect that most other cartridge type irons would behave the same, it's just that their PSUs don't put them in that situation. It's as simple as that.


Let's now examine your options:

Firstly two of your links are for the Meanwell LRS100 series SMPS. This is designed to be built into equipment, not used standalone. It has exposed mains terminals and chassis openings that are too large to meet CE if not enclosed. At a minimum, you would need to mount it in an enclosure, either sealed, or with <3mm ventilation holes. You would also need to include a mains fuse on the live at the inlet, not to protect the PSU (which has its own internal fuse) but to protect against fire if a fault develops in your internal mains wiring. I am really not comfortable with you doing this, given your level of experience.

Down to the other two (enclosed brick) PSUs. If you want to adopt the 2 wire silicone cable, with earthing tab as Rooster has used, then you must have a PSU with grounded negative (how else are you going to get your earth reference for the tip with 2 cores?). The only alternatives I can think of is find a suitably thin 3 core cable and separately earth the 3rd core, or use a separate thin silicone tip grounding lead, maybe clipped to the cable at intervals for convenience - I think that was the original idea of the TS100 designers (use a grounding lead when using for sensitive electronics, don't bother with a battery supply or non-sensitive stuff).

Have measured the voltage on the barrel of the adapter you have bought relative to mains earth? If properly designed, then the EMC filter leakage currents will be returned to the input mains ground (3rd) pin, as shown in the block diagram you attached. If so, the output will be floating near ground and will be suitable for you to ground the tip using a separate grounding wire.

If you choose to return it and get the grounded output version instead, then you can adopt the 2 wire cord and grounding arrangement as shown in Rooster's photos.

Your final alternative - and the one that I suggested to Rooster (and you too, I think) and the one that he adopted, is to purchase a surplus genuine 3 pin brand name laptop PSU. As I have previously said, Genuine Lenovo 20V 3 pin units can be purchased on ebay very cheaply. Similar offerings from Dell, HP etc too. Ok you won't get the maximum 24V but with the thermal regulation, you are unlikely to notice the difference. How you attach the flexible silicone cord to the output is entirely down to your preference, either M-F connectors or cut the wire and solder+heatshrink. It makes no difference.

I, myself, have used a laptop PSU. Ok, I have internally modified it to put out the maximum 24V but this is not something that I would want you to do. It involves opening the sealed casing, reverse engineering, and making circuit modifications. If done wrongly or carelessly, it will compromise safety.


I hope the above gives you a full understanding of the reasons, issues involved, and your options. If not, then do please ask.

[MacMeter]

TS100 Voltage Leak & Grounding issues. Posted on EEVBlog 4-16-2018:

Here are some quick tests I did with a BM235 DMM.
TS100, with version 2.02 Ralim’s GitHub open source firmware.
Mean Well 24 voltS DC, 90 watt, switching power supply with ground plug.
Iron plugged in, but not powered on to heat. *Heating up the iron did not effect voltage readings.

TIP to EARTH GROUND = 14 volts AC. * Power supply GROUNDED
TIP to EARTH GROUND = 58 volts AC. * Power supply UNGROUNDED (used a 3-2 ground lift)

Using supplied TS100 ground clip from units ground screw to earth ground: VOLTAGE = ZERO

Last test was in response to the original poster.
I observed the irons on screen behavior while placing and removing the ground clip wire from iron to earth ground.
Temp set to 650F, while UNGROUNDED, iron reaches set temp and stabilizes.

With iron earth GROUNED, the temperature hovers around set temp, but is JUMPY, can see quick jumps up to 675F. The onscreen HEATER ICON, is indicating iron is constantly heating/cooling. As soon as earth GROUND is REMOVED, unit behaves normally again, temp stabilizes, heater icon stays OFF.

I have not tested the supplied firmware. I’ll pass this on to the open source firmware author.

[TuxKey]

@Gyro if i could hit that thank you button more than once i would ..
So i’m going to stick with enclosed brick supply thanks for saving me..
i almost bought the SMPS one.

i'm going to read your reply a couple of times.. go true it let it sink in.. and if i don't understand something i'l ask..
Really appreciate it..
Will see what tme.eu will do exchange the GST90A24-P1M for the GSM90A24-P1M or not .. what i do next depends on that.
 

[TuxKey]

@MacMeter i can do the measurements with stock firmware i don't have a fancy "BM235 DMM" but i do have the cheaper one from lidl (made for newbies like myself).. reviewed by a nice eevblog memmber here.
https://youtu.be/ufx3rhCTmpY

i did get fancy new silicone probes costing the same as the meter it self hahha..
i'm still not clear on how to measure. i think put one of the probes on the tip and one on the grounding screw?
i see you mention AC so that's ~V setting. 
You mentioned that you have a Mean Well 24V DC 90W. is it a GST90A series or GSM90A?

[MacMeter]

The same one I wrote in this thread and the others you’ve posted in: “Mean Well GST90A24-P1M Regulated Switching Table Top Power Supply, 24 Volt, 3.75 Amp, 90 Watt.”

If you go back and read Rooster’s first post in this thread, you may find that returning the one you bought for the other model, may trigger the temp fluctuations on the TS100 as he initially reported. I can’t say for sure, as I’ve accepted the limitations of this setup for the soldering I occasionally do. Gyro has a lot more knowledge then I do on this subject, so certainly follow his advice if it aligns with your requirements. If I were doing a lot of sensitive electronics soldering, I would buy a decent station like the new Pace station for $250, and not bother with a TS100 at all.

[TuxKey]

@gyro or anyone else 

i'm going to give this seller a try he has all dc plugs for a good price.. like €2,35 for 10 of them..
it seems cheaper to buy in bulk.. so i can mess up..
https://tinyurl.com/ydbrflzq
Just to be sure .. probably will sound stupid ..

i know i need 5,5*2,5 on this page that's the 008 one..
But if i want the equivalent female plug are the numbers the same ? so 5,5*2,5 from this seller number 006..
It's probably going to take ages to get here.. but that's ok..

[Gyro]

@Tuxkey:

Yes, your Lidl meter is fine. Just measure on AC volts between the outer barrel of the DC jack and mains earth (a grounding screw on your mains outlet should be suitable, or the metal cabinet of something you know has a grounded supply [Edit: it sounds as if MacMeter has already measured the sort of readings that you might see]. If there is any difficulty with the supplier, please remember my Laptop PSU advice, having a known grounded output, it is a well trodden path.

Also yes, the 5.5x2.5 is the same terminology for plug or socket. I guess it doesn't matter if it takes a long time, as long as you are able to test the iron with the PSU in the meantime.

@MacMeter:

Yes, there's no doubt that a $250 Pace station would be a very nice alternative. Luckily, for the more financially challenged or lighter user, we sometimes find lower end products that punch above their weight (Literally in the case of the TS100! ).

[TuxKey]

@Gyro

Thanks for your help i just placed an order for plugs 10 of each. for €4,46 with shipping.. So if anyone in The Netherlands needs a couple just let me know hahaha as clumsy as i can sum times be.. i think 5 are more then enough.. but considering the price and if they are any good.. why the heck not..

Like bigclivedotcom on youtube says.. the only way to learn soldering is to practice 

[MacMeter]

@MacMeter:

Yes, there's no doubt that a $250 Pace station would be a very nice alternative. Luckily, for the more financially challenged or lighter user, we sometimes find lower end products that punch above their weight (Literally in the case of the TS100! ).

Indeed, that’s the reason I bought one as you may recall helping me awhile back. But I did not buy it with any intentions of soldering potentially sensitive electronic boards, as Tuxkey indicated he would be doing. So correct me if I’m wrong, but switching power supplies to one that is negative earth grounded will not solve the issue that is the topic of this particular TS100 thread, which is wild temperature cycling when the TS100 is earth grounded.

I’m very aware of folks being on a budget, but this might be a situation where the old saying applies; “the right tool for the job”. Whether the issue is hardware or firmware on the TS100, the end result is you get a clean, no voltage leak to the tip when properly grounded, but the irons temperature readings are all over the place, seen it myself and reported here or in the other TS100 threads. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t see switching the power supply as solving this particular issue on its own.

[TuxKey]

@MacMeter:

it’s not just a matter of budget but also the best value.
Like every newbie starting after doing sum moderate research i ended up with the Hakko FX-888D.
Also in my research the TS-100 came up a few times.. “Marco Reps” did a nice in depth review and after “Louis Rossmann” nice vid
where he criticised the so called “old tech” like the Hakko.. direct vs indirect heating irons..
i thought why not go for the compact iron spend a bit more on a good power supply all is well..

Looking back perhaps getting something like the FX-951 would have bin a better idea..
But i did promise my wife that this time i would not jump in to a new hobby spending big and realising it’s nothing for me.
Also i live in a apartment with one study where i do my work, studie and now also sum soldering.. learning with DIY kits and mechanical keyboards.. I don’t have the space now for a full station..

i payed €66 for the TS100 with all the little things it needed on banggood. Add to that the power supply and i’m on €90
So that’s just €33 below the Hakko FX-888D..

But i thought the TS100 was the better option compact direct heating iron.. i did not know anything about these problems..
Guess that’s my mistake..Ahh well even an old dog like myself is not above learning from his mistakes..
Being all in.. if i can do anything to salvage this situation i’m willing to try..

If i go back and read what Gyro is saying.. (first part) the reason why the TS100 doesn't like floating PSUs.
It sounds reasonably to me..

btw i thought that “Rooster Cogburn” did resolve everything now with the new firmware and power supply with mains earth.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/msg1493014/#msg1493014

[Gyro]

.... So correct me if I’m wrong, but switching power supplies to one that is negative earth grounded will not solve the issue that is the topic of this particular TS100 thread, which is wild temperature cycling when the TS100 is earth grounded.
....

Yes it does, the issue is having the internal electronics/element /thermocouple floating at a significantly different voltage to the tip. If both are referenced to the same level (ground in this case) then there isn't a problem with temperature cycling. Some versions of the Ralim F/W have different PID tuning which result in different degrees of temperature stability. Optimum PID tuning for the range of supply voltage and tips (thermal mass) is still a work in progress but is pretty good on the latest versions. I can't speak for the stock F/W, it's a long time since I used it.

I'm not experiencing any temperature fluctuation with the latest Ralim F/W with both the supply and tip grounded (Tip BC2, grounded laptop PSU modded to 24V - as described a few posts ago). [Edit: The laptop PSU brings the overall cost down significantly].

[TuxKey]

Thanks for explaining it again Gyro..Your patience is something to be admired.. 
Yesterday i was sharing parts of your post to a good friend of mine also looking to get the TS100..
i told him that i discovered a brand new Dell 19V power supply that was mains mains referenced.. so his reaction so you bought a power supply that was not and wasted money ?? 

After pausing for a min... i don't think getting the extra power supply with the correct plug was a waist of money. How would i solder the new cable without a working iron.. Also a good power supply and hopefully my new learned skill to solder my own connectors means this supply can be used with any other connector 

One thing, i did sum googling about the function of the ferrite core. Wanting to know if i would cut a cable in the future would i do it before or after the ferrite core. Reading this i think after would be the correct way to go..
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/42212/why-do-some-laptop-charges-have-ferrite-cores-on-them?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa

Keeping in mind to keep the cable under 1m say 75cm.. For the new Power supply i'm getting i won't be cutting it but adding male / female just so i don't void the warranty .. in 2yr's i might do it .. but with the second Dell Supply i can cut it.. only question is what am i going to find in there.. meaning there is a blue led in the power plug don't know if that one has it.. but will see..

(time to order the silicone cable from ebay)..

[xavkno]

Anyone have a link to one of those del, power supplies as i can't find any genuine ones

[Gyro]

Thanks for explaining it again Gyro..Your patience is something to be admired.. 

Thanks, I thought I was doing pretty well too.  

Yesterday i was sharing parts of your post to a good friend of mine also looking to get the TS100..
i told him that i discovered a brand new Dell 19V power supply that was mains mains referenced.. so his reaction so you bought a power supply that was not and wasted money ?? 

After pausing for a min... i don't think getting the extra power supply with the correct plug was a waist of money. How would i solder the new cable without a working iron.. Also a good power supply and hopefully my new learned skill to solder my own connectors means this supply can be used with any other connector 

One thing, i did sum googling about the function of the ferrite core. Wanting to know if i would cut a cable in the future would i do it before or after the ferrite core. Reading this i think after would be the correct way to go..
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/42212/why-do-some-laptop-charges-have-ferrite-cores-on-them?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa

Keeping in mind to keep the cable under 1m say 75cm.. For the new Power supply i'm getting i won't be cutting it but adding male / female just so i don't void the warranty .. in 2yr's i might do it .. but with the second Dell Supply i can cut it.. only question is what am i going to find in there.. meaning there is a blue led in the power plug don't know if that one has it.. but will see..

(time to order the silicone cable from ebay)..

just double check that the Dell PSU you found is a genuine Dell and not a "For Dell" no-brand aftermarket cheapie ones. As long as it shows a standard Dell label has Dell part no, ratings, approvals etc.

Regarding the ferrite core. It is nothing to worry about in terms of soldering iron use. If it us as the DC plug end of the lead, it was put there to reduce EMC emissions from the laptop anyway, not the PSU.

I just saw your latest PM  - yes 1m maximum is ample for a useable length. Yes, the more you buy, the cheaper it gets - it's really down to you how much you buy... and if you have any other uses for burn-proof flex, or how many attempts you want.

[TuxKey]

@ Rooster Cogburn,

Looking at you nice build,
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/ts100-doesn_t-function-properly-when-earthed/msg1493014/#msg1493014

i was wondering if you could share sum info about it.

it looks like you used the white piece of this wire?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Twin-Core-Silicone-Rubber-Cable-2x0-4mm-Conductors-6amp-DC-Wiring-Cord/152000411964?hash=item2363ee393c:g:eBcAAOSwll1W1cRU

And i just found out that it’s called a Fork Terminal..And that red is 22-16 AWG according to this.
http://www.ferrulesdirect.com/electrical/VINYLINSULFORKTERM.htm

That seems to align with the product page of the “twin core Silicone Rubber cable” on ebay.
it says Conductor Size - 21 AWG..


checking for red fork wire connectors 22-16 AWG . 3.2mm is the smallest one i can find..


Just wanted to make sure..

[Rooster Cogburn]

I just used some stranded wire I had, the cable shoe was also one I had around, IIRC. I don't think it's particularly elegant as the fork cable shoe is quite bulky and I'd rather have a slimmer o-ring one, so I don't think it's worth trying to closely emulate what I build. I just used the parts I had, not the best ones I could find. As long as there's a solid connection between the ground screw and DC-, it shouldn't really matter much.

[electrode]

In my iron (with and earthed brick) I have bridged across C26 to provide tip earthing without the inconvenience of a separate earth wire. There is a small voltage on the tip as a result of cable resistance, but it is very low. Obviously not something that you can consider until your PSU leakage issues and stability are under control.

Hi Gyro,
I was wondering – several months later – if you've had any ongoing issues with internally shorting this capacitor? I'm thinking of doing the same to mine, as an external wire seems clunky to me.

Also, do you tie your iron to a grounded ESD mat at all?

Edit: Is your earthed power brick also earthed via a 1MΩ resistor? That is the case for a Lenovo laptop supply I picked up. Trying to work out how best to make this thing ESD-safe, after killing 2 MOSFETs.

[Gyro]

Hi electrode,

No, no problems. I use it most days. Yes, it's certainly the neatest way of doing it.

My ESD mat is grounded in the normal manner - IM safety cord to Mains ground. No 'direct wire' connection between the iron and the mat.  My power brick output is directly connected to mains ground however, no resistor.

[Curious2know]

In my iron (with and earthed brick) I have bridged across C26 to provide tip earthing without the inconvenience of a separate earth wire. There is a small voltage on the tip as a result of cable resistance, but it is very low. Obviously not something that you can consider until your PSU leakage issues and stability are under control.

Hi,

so I bought a brand new Meanwell 3-pin 24v PSU and I'm looking to use this solution, so I don't have a third wire attached to the iron. I took the TS-100 apart and I'm looking at the C26 capacitor. Do I need to remove it or can I just put a solder blob on top of it to short it?

Regards curious2know

[Gyro]

There's no need to physically remove C26 but attempting to puddle a solder blob on top of it is likely to come to a messy end. The easiest way is to tack solder a thin strand of wire across the top of the C26 - the easiest to reverse too.


P.S. As the board has probably gone through a few revisions (from the schematic I attached in Reply #3) it's worth a quick check that it is still C26. One end should go to the connector outer and the other to the tip barrel contact spring. It's pretty unlikely to have changed but better safe than sorry.

[Curious2know]

Hey thanks for your quick reply.
Well C26 came off when I tried to put a wire on top, so I just placed the wire there. Now when I measure the tip AC is jumping all over the place. 
Sometimes it settles for 27V 

Edit: Yep 27V at the tip. Why could that be?

[Gyro]

Have you verified that the negative wire of the Meanwell PSU output is connected to mains ground (earth)?

[Curious2know]

Have you verified that the negative wire of the Meanwell output is connected to mains ground (earth)?

Shouldn't I get continuity between outer barrel of the connector and one of the 3-pin? Actually none of these show continuity between each other. What should I measure?

[electrode]

That's right, you should get continuity between the barrel of your supply and the earth pin on the mains plug. Try the resistance setting too, as some are connected via a (usually 1M) resistor.

[Gyro]

If you don't get continuity between the ground (earth) pin of the 3 pin connector and the output plug barrel then I'm afraid the PSU output is floating, not grounded. Continuity to the Live or Neutral pin would indicate a fault by the way.

With a floating PSU, I'm sorry to say that the only answer is to run a (flexible) ground wire to the TS100 ESD grounding point - or use a different PSU. Sorry.

[Curious2know]

So I tried both continuity and resistance. Nothing...
What about the inner part of the barrel connector? Shouldn't there also be continuity to some pin?

https://www.meanwell-web.com/content/files/pdfs/productPdfs/MW/GST90A/GST90A-spec.pdf

This is the one I got. I'm assuming "-V not connected to AC FG" is what I don't want to read? 

[Gyro]

Yes, I'm afraid that's what you don't want to read - it confirms floating output. I have a vague memory of someone quoting the same PSU spec in this or another thread. It's rather silly of them to just casually mention it on the engineering drawing [Edit: too easy to miss there] rather than the spec, because it's important information .

No, you wouldn't expect to see any continuity to the barrel inner, you'll probably see something between barrel inner and outer while the output reservoir cap charges.

Sorry to state the obvious but you can only ground reference the tip if you have a ground reference. I don't know if they do a grounded version. The other alternative is a genuine manufacturer (not copy) 3 pin laptop adapter off ebay, they usually have grounded output.

[Curious2know]

Sadly anything I can find only goes up to 19V.

Is it correct to assume that when I get the same resistance between tip and outer barrel of the soldering iron connector and tip and the ground screw at least my shunt works?
And can I still use the iron safely with the mod in place? I guess 27V is better than 115V? 

I think I'll either get a battery pack now or invest in a proper station.

[Gyro]

19V will still give you a reasonable output power- 40W according to the manual. That's can be plenty for most things with the decent temperature regulation.

Yes, if you have continuity from the outer barrel to the ground screw and tip then your mod is successful.

The 27V you're seeing is high impedance - parasitic capacitive coupling across the internals of the PSU.

As I said before, if you earth the ground screw on the iron with a thin length of silicone lead then you can still have an ESD grounded tip with the Meanwell PSU.

It used to be the case that 2 pin PSUs suffered from (a safe level of) leakage and 3 pin had grounded outputs. Now it appears that some PSUs have 3 pin and some leakage (not sure how much less) - not a particularly helpful situation.

With C26 bypassed then at least you won't suffer from internal noise pickup and instability (the reason for the OP of this thread) if you use the grounding screw. It's worth giving it a try - you only need a thin ground wire so it shouldn't really get in the way if wrap it around the DC lead.


EDIT: Thinking about a convenient grounding point, you could maybe consider a rewireable IEC connector, eg. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-connectors/0488208/. You would need to be VERY careful that your ground lead could not come loose from the ground terminal and accidentally contact the live one, using careful sleeving and strain relief. Just an idea.

[Curious2know]

EDIT: Thinking about a convenient grounding point, you could maybe consider a rewireable IEC connector, eg. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/iec-connectors/0488208/. You would need to be VERY careful that your ground lead could not come loose from the ground terminal and accidentally contact the live one, using careful sleeving and strain relief. Just an idea.

I have a feeling I shouldn't be doing this. I'm really not qualified for this as total beginner hobbyist.

Back to the additional wire to the ground screw. Where do I connect the other end of the ground wire? I mean the power socket is completely blocked by the round plug.

[Gyro]

I agree, if you are not absolutely confident in your abilities to wire such a mains IEC socket then you should avoid it. A clip to the chassis of a another piece of equipment (eg. bench PSU lid screw or earth terminal) would be safer for you.

Such an IEC socket connection would be possible though. It would require heatshrink sleeving to hold the incoming earth wire and TS100 earth wire together so that they could not drift apart if the terminal loosens. The wire could then be heatshrinked to the outer of the mains cable as it exits through the cable clamp and gland.

As I say, if you are not confident, then stick with the first approach.

[Curious2know]

https://www.banggood.com/CPS-3010-0-30V-0-10A-Compact-Digital-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-1066726.html?ID=47184

This is earthed right? I wanted to buy a cheap PSU anyway, so I guess I could use this?

[kaevee]

https://www.banggood.com/CPS-3010-0-30V-0-10A-Compact-Digital-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-1066726.html?ID=47184

This is earthed right? I wanted to buy a cheap PSU anyway, so I guess I could use this?

Checkout "MEAN WELL" brand. You can simply choose a single output model in NES-350 series. NES-350-24 gives you 24V/14.6A. It will cost you about $50 (https://www.amazon.com/Mean-NES-350-24-Switching-Power-Supply/dp/B00KTJE3L4).

They are reasonably priced and reliable.

https://www.meanwell.com/

Disclaimer: I have no relationship to company in question. We have used their products from long time.

[Curious2know]

Maybe you misunderstood me. I need an adjustable power supply anyway. So the question is, will this give me the sought after earthed soldering iron tip? I guess yes, because from the teardown it looks like the earth connection is properly connected?

[kaevee]

Maybe you misunderstood me. I need an adjustable power supply anyway. So the question is, will this give me the sought after earthed soldering iron tip? I guess yes, because from the teardown it looks like the earth connection is properly connected?

Sorry, I missed your requirement of adjustable power supply.

You guessed correctly. MeanWell has earth wired correctly.

[Curious2know]

Maybe you misunderstood me. I need an adjustable power supply anyway. So the question is, will this give me the sought after earthed soldering iron tip? I guess yes, because from the teardown it looks like the earth connection is properly connected?

Sorry, I missed your requirement of adjustable power supply.

You guessed correctly. MeanWell has earth wired correctly.

No, I meant the Gophert. 

[TheBay]

I bought a TS100 because it was on offer, I paid £30 for the "Brown" upgrade version with a couple of tips.
Handy for portable use etc and can use on a home made battery pack.

It's a great iron, however I think some are missing the point with this iron, paying £50 or more for it then another £50+ on power supplies and things,
this no longer becomes good value for money and the money would be better invested in a soldering station instead, especially if it's used just on the bench.
And then there is taking in to consideration the intricacies of its quirks regarding grounding.

[kaevee]

I bought a TS100 because it was on offer, I paid £30 for the "Brown" upgrade version with a couple of tips.
Handy for portable use etc and can use on a home made battery pack.

It's a great iron, however I think some are missing the point with this iron, paying £50 or more for it then another £50+ on power supplies and things,
this no longer becomes good value for money and the money would be better invested in a soldering station instead, especially if it's used just on the bench.
And then there is taking in to consideration the intricacies of its quirks regarding grounding.

You are right. Silly of me suggesting a $50 power supply! 

[epigramx]

I don't understand something about the conclusions in this thread. It is suggested that all is well if a properly grounded DC supply has its negative connected to the ground of the device.

OK so far. Now, I wonder, wouldn't be all OK if one directly grounded the negative and the device manually? (I mean even if the PSU is cheap and non-grounded initially)

[Gyro]

Covered in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/choosingunderstanding-the-right-powersuply-for-the-ts100/msg2027149/#msg2027149 and reply (same poster). Just to keep the thread tidy.

[coolyota]

Hello, I am contemplating buying TS100. I currently have a 3 prong laptop PSU, is it safe to use with the TS100 providing ground? Sorry newby question...

[djnz]

For those considering power bricks:

MeanWell GST series does not have -ve DC output connected to earth ground and should be avoided for the TS100.

The medical grade GSM B series is only 2 pin so do not get that either.

However the medical grade GSM A series does have -ve DC connected to earth ground, so that is good.

I think the MeanWell GSM90A24-P1M should be good.