Author Topic: UP! Mini 3D printer by PP3DP - a look under her bonnet & comments on design  (Read 18824 times)

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Offline FraserTopic starter

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I have found a UK company on ebay that will provide me with a 140mm x 140mm square of 1.5mm thick aluminium or stainless steel for only £3.50. I have also found a Polish ebay seller who supplies really nice looking, easily removable dual layer 'blue masking tape' squares to place on the build plate. I am going to give this a go to see how well a metal plate and the blue tape performs. The seller claims that one of the sheets lasts a long time in heavy use. I am a light user and you get 10 squares for around £3.50 + p&p

Masking tape squares:

  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111671705553?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Aurora
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 09:04:43 pm by Aurora »
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Offline neslekkim

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Others use masking tape on roll, and just place them side by side, or similarly use wider kapton tape.
 

Offline miguelvp

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I don't have a 3D printer but my friends that have them use also kapton tape

Here is a random video about applying kapton film to a base:


 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Thanks for the advice guys  :-+

I do have Kapton tape but that is expensive stuff to waste and I was not sure how well the ABS would stick to it. I saw the rolls of blue 50mm wide masking tape but thought I would give the Polish sheets a go as they are apparently easy to remove. From memory, the blue masking tape is only guaranteed to be easily removable within 24 hours.

I shall have fun experimenting with what works and does not work as a build surface  :) The cellboard is supposed to be good stiff with its special coating but I must be doing something wrong. More practice needed maybe  :-//

Aurora
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Offline TopLoser

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Got rolls and rolls of Kapton tape here, can't see how customers could have buggered it up, probably just mislabelled or damaged boxes. Only 20mm wide stuff though.
 

Offline pickle9000

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On heated platforms hairspray and glass is the easiest.

 

Offline Mechatrommer

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The UP! filament is very expensive when compared to everyday 3rd party types and the colours available are limited. In the UK it costs £35 for a 700g reel  :o  In the USA it is $35 for the same.  I do not really like the white filament so I have bought a reel of the UP! black.
but its worth it, i'd rather buy more (slightly) expensive but quality than a slightly cheaper but crap filament. my aurora 3d came with a sample with 3mm white ABS, the printout is close like yours, strong bonding between layers, no shrinking and peeled layers but i dont know where the seller got it, i bought several reels of abs they are all somewhat crappy. i appreciate if you can give link to the supplier. i dont care about color i can post paint it, white is cool and ideal for this. i heard makerbot or what, printbot? they also sell quality abs but i havent time to look for it. otoh my unbranded PLA print is easy no peeled of layers strong bonding, the problem is lot of strings and printing bridge or overhang can be a problem. and lower melt temp, not suitable outdoor use.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline zapta

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Have you considered PLA? it's must more stable than ABS and easier to print. Initially I struggled with ABS and then gave up and am now very happy with PLA. It doesn't curl, interlayer lamination is good, first layer adhesion is good (using glass sheet + water soluble purple glue stick) and is easy to print in general.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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me? yes i've considered. infact i have stock for both. but there are places where PLA is not suitable, as i said, in hot sun condition...
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Amazon.com sell UP! filament in several colours including white.

http://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Filament-Diameter-Spool-Black/dp/B00TOOHN30/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432479308&sr=8-1&keywords=up%21+filament

The PP3DP.com (manufacturer) website also has a list of regional agents. If you Google for 'UP! 3D filament' you should find it locally.

Aurora
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Offline zapta

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On heated platforms hairspray and glass is the easiest.



Hair spray is very nasty and hard to remove. If you wear glasses, keep them away while you spray.

I switched to glass and purple water soluble glue and could not be happier. Another good surface is BuildTak.

BTW, to remove the parts from the surface I am using a wide painting knife, #2 in this pic, and for smaller parts a quick horizontal tap with a very small hammer.



Edit: I use knife #1 for transferring solder past to/from the squeegee and #5 to transfer small boards to the reflow oven. It's a very versatile set.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 07:01:05 pm by zapta »
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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@Zapta,

I just bought a 5 piece set of those palette knives from China for £2.50   :-+

Thanks for bringing them to my attention. They look useful.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5Pcs-Stainless-Steel-Palette-Oil-Painting-Knife-Set-Wooden-Handle-S5-/181699864378?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4e27e73a

I also bought some Amtech fine point tweezers the other day. Useful for removing the support material from hard to reach places. Cost was around £4.80 for a set of 6. I received them last week and quality is decent and well up to the task.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400870763799?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Aurora
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline pickle9000

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Offline Mechatrommer

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believe it or not i have to use flat screwdriver and a hammer to pop out a printout out of the capton tape. a flat peeler like that will bend badly.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline pickle9000

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believe it or not i have to use flat screwdriver and a hammer to pop out a printout out of the capton tape. a flat peeler like that will bend badly.

I'm lucky I don't have this issue. I let my platform cool (4 hours ish) and lift off the item or a light tug. I use abs most of the time.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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believe it or not i have to use flat screwdriver and a hammer to pop out a printout out of the capton tape. a flat peeler like that will bend badly.
I'm lucky I don't have this issue. I let my platform cool (4 hours ish) and lift off the item or a light tug. I use abs most of the time.
the thing got worst if i let the bed cool. and the thing got worsen if i use my homemade abs juice. ;) but i rather doing that than having a curled printout. and oh forgot to mention, i use brim most of the time... and sometime skirt if i can conform the stickiness. i dont use raft, not a single day.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 05:13:01 am by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline pickle9000

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They are interesting machines, the only real professional use I have is making connected standoffs. Basically 5 or 6 standoffs connected to make pcb installation easier. It is a time saver and easy to do. I have made a few bracket type items as well. The nice part is time, these are easy to do, I do small quantity items so  3-5 pcs is normal, no need to stock just print as needed. Certainly worth it for me (time wise in particular). And I own it so I can play with it as well.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Manufacturer web site with details of agents around the world

http://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=259:3d-printing-manufacturer-tiertime-announces-global-launch-of-up-box-desktop-3d-printer-&catid=43:blog&Itemid=55


Mechatrommer, the Malaysian agent is shown as: 3D Printer Malaysia:

http://www.3dprinter.com.my/

3D Printer Sdn Bhd
Unit C-05-1 Sunway Giza, Dataran Sunway, Kota Damansara 47810 PJ, Selangor.
Tel: +603-61517811 / +6019-2709811
Email: my3dprinters@gmail.com

Filament is detailed here and price:

http://www.3dprinter.com.my/3d_printer_filament_malaysia

Price is RM159 each for ABS.

Aurora

« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 03:52:39 pm by Aurora »
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Offline Mechatrommer

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http://www.3dprinter.com.my/
well done! thank you very much for doing that i appreciate it. i never thought UP! will have distributer here. for a second i thought thats where i did my order previously but it turned out to be different. here where i ordered the crappy abs... http://www.3dprinter.my the name are very much identical at first glimpse... i will try that for sure thanks!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 05:21:54 pm by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline MagicSmoker

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Excellent thread! Many thanks for the detailed review, Aurora (and the interesting counterpoints, Mechatrommer).

I want to make a few custom enclosures out of ABS for some specialized test equipment* and have been considering several approaches:

1. submit a sketch/description to a custom enclosure company and pay them to make a proper 3D file, prototype, etc. - most expensive route, possibly longest lead time, most difficult to tweak design, but requires least time/effort on my part.

2. learn how to use a decent 3D cad program (but not a full-blown design suite like, e.g., SolidWorks) to make my own 3D file then submit it to a custom enclosure company - saves some NRE cost, quicker turnaround time but longer learning curve time on my part.

3. same as #2 except also buy a 3D printer to make the prototypes, only sending off the STL file when I have totally nailed down the design - potentially higher up-front cost, but then I will actually learn a very valuable skill which will almost certainly enable me to make more interesting things in the future.

Since the OP seems to have chosen option #3, I am curious about the 3D cad software he uses and whether he has used the UP! printer more since the last post in late May.



* - one of which is something similar to the TTI i-prober http://www.tti-test.com/go/iprober/ except for massively higher currents.
 

Offline FraserTopic starter

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Hi Magicsmoker,

Thanks for your post.

I personally went for option 3 because fellow forum member Toploser offered me the UP! At a very generous discount. Had it not been for his kindness I would have continued using 3d printing companies.

I wanted a 3d printer in order to learn about the technology and software. It also provided an ability to make unusual custom parts without waiting for a 3rd party to make such for me. The down side was the equipment cost. I am retired and could not justify the retail price for the occasional 3D print. Toploser changed that equation by offering me a reputable 3d printer at a fraction of its retail cost.

With regard to 3d printing hardware.....it is a minefield for the newbie. There are an awful lot of 3d printers on the market and many do not deliver on their promises. Some Googling proves that point ! I was very lucky.....Toploser was selling a Mini UP! that had suffered a mechanical fault in transit when it was  first sol. It was a customer return for that reason, not poor performance. It was repaired by the agent before I bought it. Other 'customer returns' 3D printers should be treated with suspicion....it can often be due to poor performance. The Mini UP! Has a very good reputation for producing very nice prints with a minimum of fuss and little maintenance. A bit of a Holy Grail in the 3D printing world !

My prints using the Mini UP! Have been far better quality than I had expected and I am more than pleased with its performance. It sits neatly on my office desk, very much like a mini tower PC case. I program it from nothing more powerful than a Sony Vaio netbook running a 1.83GHz ATOM processor. I even draw my Designs using this less than powerful little Netbook PC :)

When I received my printer, I did some test prints and these were great but they did show slight angles on the verticals. The bed was not perfectly flat and I had not carried out the full printer calibration routine that includes a bed levelling compensation routine. I measured about 2mm of run out on the bed left to right and 1mm front to rear. Whilst the compensation routine would have used the raft to fix this, I realised that the run out was likely shipping 'damage' from its original purchase. All 3d printers need to have their mechanical alignment checked and adjusted when first purchased. The UP! Series are no different. Treat 3d printers as you would a fine Piano and you will not go wrong. The good news is that UP! Printers tend to remain stable in terms of alignment, unlike many other brands of 3D printer. I carried out a full alignment check on the unit and it was only the bed that needed some very minor adjustment via the provided adjustment screws. All very straight forward. The run out on the bed is now minimal and well within the machines automatic compensation capabilities.

The bed on the UP! Mini has been criticised for being heated to a relatively cool 60c. When using ABS it is best to have a bed running at 80C to 100c to prevent warping during the print. I have bought, but not fitted, a stock of new thermostat modules at different temperatures to experiment with. These are simple TO220 format devices fitted to the bottom of the heater bed. I have yet to experiment with these but will likely go for the 80C setting. The heated bed also warms the interior of the printer. This is considered an advantage when working with ABS. I only use ABS filament as I prefer to work in this very versatile material that may be sanded and glued easily.

The UP! Is not perfect however. It has a 100mm x 100mm x 100mm build space which can be too small for some users (not me though). The heater in the bed is not as powerful as is recommended for ABS printing. The motherboard is exposed to the elevated internal temperature of the enclosure. It smells pretty awful when running !

On the smell front.... When printing a large item, the vapours coming off of the ABS filament when melted will make your eyes water and not put you in the good books of your family or pets !

On the usage front, I have used the 3d printer around once per week since getting it. Most prints have been for friends though :) Once people know you have a 3d printer, you start getting requests to print all manner of items. To date I have had one failed print due to the raft not sticking to the build platform and so no 'scaffolding' was built in that area, just a mass of very thin filament, like a birds nest ! All other prints have been of excellent quality and the printer continues to impress.

On the software front, I taught myself to use Google Sketch-up. It does what I need of it and is simple to use. There is a full set of learning material and help on line. I have not needed more sophisticated CAD software to date.

From my perspective the purchase of the UP! Mini is a win on several levels

1. I now own a 3d printing capability
2. I have learnt a lot about the mechanics of a 3D printer and its foibles
3. I have learnt about the software needed to create 3D files for the printer
4. I am now in a position to create my own 3D designs for printing.
5. My knowledge of filament materials and their needs has been expanded.
6. I have gained great satisfaction from both learning about 3D printing and creating 3D objects from simple ABS filament. When you open the door and see your CAD design in physical form, it's a great feeling of achievement.

I would recommend anyone to learn about 3D printing, the CAD software and design concepts. You do not need the printer to learn about the design software. Such knowledge is very useful theses days. If the budget or opportunity allows, I would recommend buying a reputable 3D printer. Do not buy cheap printers with unknown, or known poor, performance, you will only be frustrated by them ! Do not waste your money... Buy wisely.

Hope this helps

Aurora

 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 03:15:29 pm by Aurora »
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Offline MagicSmoker

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Fantastic reply that was full of good info Aurora! You confirmed a few things I suspected and provided good warning on some that I had not (e.g. - that ABS smells bad when heated!).

Unfortunately, it looks like the work envelope of the UP! is too small for my initial application - I figure I'll need at least 150mm in either/both the X and Y axes - but your extensive review gives me a lot of things to look for regardless. This site http://www.3dprintinggeeks.com/ is one that I have been referring to a lot for printer comparisons. It seems to be a better source of reviews than the sometimes-clueless comments on, e.g., Amazon. [edit - strike that, the reviews on the site itself have the distinct flavor of advertising copy and the user reviews are from Amazon anyway...]

As for the CAD software to get, I've been considering DesignSpark Mechanical, Sketchup and Autodesk 123D. Not sure which one I will go with yet, but the first two are kind of expensive for the occasional, albeit commercial, uses that I anticipate (both are ~700USD) so 123D is the current winner by default (and the Dremel Idea Builder printer it seems to be partnered with is one I am strongly considering). [edit - no longer considering; only uses PLA, no temperature adjustment; now looking at the Lulzbot Mini which is ~1350USD]

Thanks again!




« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 12:38:23 pm by MagicSmoker »
 

Offline hendorog

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Quote
As for the CAD software to get, I've been considering DesignSpark Mechanical, Sketchup and Autodesk 123D. Not sure which one I will go with yet, but the first two are kind of expensive for the occasional, albeit commercial, uses that I anticipate (both are ~700USD) so 123D is the current winner by default (and the Dremel Idea Builder printer it seems to be partnered with is one I am strongly considering). [edit - no longer considering; only uses PLA, no temperature adjustment; now looking at the Lulzbot Mini which is ~1350USD]

You may be surprised at how effective the cheapest 3d printers are. I've recently purchased one from Aliexpress for $275 USD with free shipping and, apart from a couple of obvious and easily fixed problems, it is very good. The quality of the prints it can do is impressive, and because it is based on the standard open-source platform individual upgrades can be sourced from may places.

The downside is the frame is not very rigid being acrylic, and that limits the top speed as it becomes less precise. This isn't really a problem for me as I prefer printing fine detail stuff which needs to be printed very slowly anyway.

OpenSCAD is free and very easy to learn for creating designs. It's a simple and small package too which is a breath of fresh air.

So for a total spend of around $300 you can have something that will produce the same results as $2000 gear. If you are new to 3d printers I would recommend going that way as you will learn heaps and can decide if you want to upgrade later on.

This is what I would look for in a printer:
* A source of cheap and high quality filament
* Very stiff and rigid frame and extruder assembly
* Extruder with a small 'hot zone' and a sharp transition to the cold zone
* Standard electronics and parts
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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This site http://www.3dprintinggeeks.com/ is one that I have been referring to a lot for printer comparisons. It seems to be a better source of reviews than the sometimes-clueless comments on, e.g., Amazon. [edit - strike that, the reviews on the site itself have the distinct flavor of advertising copy and the user reviews are from Amazon anyway...]
that exoskeleton threaded shaft mendel looks fragile, i suspect it will moves alot during printing or porting to another place. $599 with no LCD is at the rank of "expensive" price now in OSHW league... this new generation prusa clone has LCD and cheaper... http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/New-3D-printer-DIY-Print-6-filament-Full-Acrylic-Frame-Prusa-I3-X-self-assembly-/281754389506?hash=item4199decc02 i bought mine older generation no LCD, but recently i upgraded success the LCD with close guidance from reprap forum info. edit: and forgot to mention, the prusa/clone build is 20cmx20cmx17cm, greater than the above linked printinggeek mendel.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 01:54:23 am by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline hendorog

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Quote
that exoskeleton threaded shaft mendel looks fragile, i suspect it will moves alot during printing or porting to another place.

The Mendel design is actually pretty rigid front to back (Y axis) due to the triangular shape, and is easy to pick up and move around. It's a little bit worse than the i3 side to side (X axis).
The acrylic i3's need to be attached to some sort of base (not included) before they become rigid enough to pickup and move easily. I just printed some mounts and screwed them to a 10mm board.

I agree about the price though, it is expensive compared to what is available now.

There is a Wanhao brand i3 which is all steel and more expensive which doesn't have the floppy Y axis problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printer-Wanhao-Duplicator-i3-All-Metal-Construction-Graphics-Display-/201375601189?var=&hash=item2ee2ebd225


 


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