USB solder paste and fluids dispenser for SMT PCB prototyping and DIY boards.

[mahouny]

Hi everyone,
Check this USB powered solder paste and fluids dispenser.
IMHO, it's a handy tool for SMT PCB prototyping and developing. 
What do you think ?




NEW VIDEO

[dmmt40]

Hey, great to see another dispenser on the market! (I'm assuming this is your design). Although why go the Kickstarter route? That seems like a huge headache for something that is rather niche.

I've also designed a dispenser and I'm selling already on Tindie: https://www.tindie.com/products/DanM/dm-dispenser-for-solder-pastes-and-adhesives/ IMO this is a great platform to get started.

I did think about Kickstarter at one point but also having a few customers first to give you feedback and everything is a good idea, you can only do kickstarter (properly) once so that's why I considered it a bit risky from my point of view.

Anyway I hope you reach your goal because the more people know the benefits of solder dispensers, the better for everyone!

[mahouny]

Hi,
I've check your dispenser.
That's a great work man !
I see, that you also using nordson syringes/pistons as they are IMHO the best on market.

I just discovered Tindie few moth ago. How good is it ?

"the more people know the benefits of solder dispensers, the better for everyone"
I absolutely agree with you. PCB makers need such compact and air-free solder paste dispensers.
It's a real saver, when you make PCB prototypes.

Best regards

[dmmt40]

I see, that you also using nordson syringes/pistons as they are IMHO the best on market.

Indeed, there are some similar designs out there but the genuine ones are super high quality and worth every penny. Only downside is that they’re difficult to get (at least where I live) it’s not like you can go on ebay and buy just 2 or 3 with free shipping!

I just discovered Tindie few moth ago. How good is it ?

Tindie is great because people there are looking exactly for this kind of stuff, so I reckon you’re more likely to sell than in other places. Unless of course if the product is already well known, in which case you’d be better off setting up your own website and store. At least for me it’s perfect.
But yeah, good luck with your project!

Dan

[janoc]

Why to make a paste/glue dispenser USB powered?

I am certainly not going to have a laptop or a PC anywhere close where I am dispensing paste or glue (= messy stuff) nor is it something I would want to take portable to need laptop or battery pack to power it because mains isn't available (do you lug your USB-powered reflow oven/hotplate with you too?).

Having to fiddle with a micro USB plug and some sort of phone charger is not going to be fun. The USB plug sticking out like that is begging for getting pulled out when the cable snags on something while you are working. That will get pretty damn annoying real fast, especially as the plug wears out and becomes loose.

Why not attach the power cable permanently to the dispenser? You can still have a USB A plug at the other end if you really need USB. A better solution would be a separate connector on the device for USB and use a fixed cable with a barrel jack or some other connector for power, with a power brick. That would also make sure there is actually enough current to power the thing.

Your KS page says that it needs ">0.5A" USB charger - why? How much current does this actually need? If it needs more than 500mA, most laptops will not be able to power it and you are not compliant with the USB spec - some hubs and computers will disable the port such device is connected to because of the over-current protection tripping. Or you could fry a poorly designed device by overloading it.

[mahouny]

Hi Janoc,
"I am certainly not going to have a laptop or a PC anywhere "
Micro USB connector doesn't mean that you have to plug it into PC or Laptop, even if it's still possible.
You also can power dispenser from usb charger or battery pack like those: https://www.google.fr/search?q=usb+battery+pack&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT69XJ-qTNAhUpCsAKHcwIClAQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=858
They usually can supply 1000-2000mA.

"Why not attach the power cable permanently to the dispenser? "
Well, as we haven't yet launched mass production, permanently fixed power cable or 2.1mm power jack are two of possible solution that we will probably make on final product.

"Your KS page says that it needs ">0.5A" USB charger - why?"
Because I-EXTRUDER drains between 320-430mA .
While PC and laptops can deliver up to 0.5A per USB plug, while there are some USB chargers that provides lees that 0.5A (ex. 350mA)

[Lomax]

If you already have compressed air in your workshop, I can definitely recommend the EFD/Nordson dispensers. I have the 900 myself, which I bought for cheap on eBay, and it is a formidable piece of equipment. I also have their 10VAC vacuum pen system, which is equally well made. Remember that these machines are made to be used on an assembly line where every minute of downtime can translate into significant losses. While this extreme reliability matters little to me, it does make for equipment that is a pleasure to use, and which should last a lifetime. I'd also add that a pedal operated dispenser and vacuum pick-up is much preferable to anything with a finger switch - operating a switch with your finger will cause the nozzle to move, no matter how careful you are.

[janoc]

Hi Janoc,
"I am certainly not going to have a laptop or a PC anywhere "
Micro USB connector doesn't mean that you have to plug it into PC or Laptop, even if it's still possible.
You also can power dispenser from usb charger or battery pack like those: https://www.google.fr/search?q=usb+battery+pack&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjT69XJ-qTNAhUpCsAKHcwIClAQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=858
They usually can supply 1000-2000mA.

Yes, and I wrote as much. The question is why would you want to do that? What is the use case where you would need to dispense solder paste while using a power bank instead of mains? Paste means you are going to do reflow and I cannot imagine battery powered oven or hot plate. Even hot air station would be pushing it.

Battery would make sense if it was built-in into the tool itself, making it wireless. But it is bulky enough already and making it even more top-heavy would likely make it difficult to use.

"Why not attach the power cable permanently to the dispenser? "
Well, as we haven't yet launched mass production, permanently fixed power cable or 2.1mm power jack are two of possible solution that we will probably make on final product.

I would strongly recommend doing that - unless you need the USB for fw updates, it is a very poor solution for a power plug, especially for a device you are moving around while in use (unlike phone charging where the phone is normally sitting on the table during that). If you need USB for programming reasons, you can keep the connector, just don't use it for the power cable.

"Your KS page says that it needs ">0.5A" USB charger - why?"
Because I-EXTRUDER drains between 320-430mA .
While PC and laptops can deliver up to 0.5A per USB plug, while there are some USB chargers that provides lees that 0.5A (ex. 350mA)

Hmm, I have to yet see a poor charger like that (not counting cheap and crappy eBay specials) but alright, makes sense. You may want to specify the current draw on the KS page, though. You specify the energy requirement in Wh, which is interesting if someone is planning to use it from a battery (even though I don't know why someone would want to do that).

Knowing the current draw is always important to judge whether or not is it safe to connect the device to some USB port, especially if it doesn't handle the USB power negotiation properly (the spec allows only 100mA draw at enumeration and more up to 500mA only when correctly negotiated with the host/hub). Probably not an issue if you use a power bank, but at some point there will certainly be someone who will connect it to an el cheapo bus powered hub where they have other things connected already and something will smoke. That's another disadvantage of using USB connectors for power - people *will* plug it into things you didn't anticipate.

[wraper]

Hi everyone,
Check this USB powered solder paste and fluids dispenser.
IMHO, it's a handy tool for SMT PCB prototyping and developing. 
What do you think ?

Does not seem to work well at all on the video. Fails to dispense equal amount, also there is way too much paste. Pads will certainly short together during the reflow.

[mahouny]

Does not seem to work well at all on the video. Fails to dispense equal amount...
[/quote]

Thank you for your opinion.

On all videos dispenser in "Manual" dispensing mode (not in automatic "Dots" mode) because of different pads sizes.
One cannot expect the exact amount of solder paste being extruded in manual mode, because, as you may see, in manual mode,  solder paste is dispensed as long as "Forward" button is pressed. 

[mahouny]

What is the use case where you would need to dispense solder paste while using a power bank instead of mains?

I-EXTRUDER is not only solder paste, but also fluids: glues, silicons, greases, compounds...e.t.c dispenser.
So yes, there maybe plenty of uses when one will need a portable dispenser, which could be powered from a battery pack / power bank.

I have to yet see a poor charger like that...

There still a huge number of such low current USB chargers from well known big international brands.

[janoc]

I-EXTRUDER is not only solder paste, but also fluids: glues, silicons, greases, compounds...e.t.c dispenser.
So yes, there maybe plenty of uses when one will need a portable dispenser, which could be powered from a battery pack / power bank.

Sorry, I am still not really buying that. If you need to dispense any of those, you are pretty much always near a workshop - where mains would be available. And if it is for a job site (field installation of something somewhere), then I am probably not going to take a dinky little dispenser with a USB cord and powerbank to be constantly in the way. And certainly not one that forces me to prefill a syringe (especially something like glue could be "fun") but a proper industrial one instead that is actually designed to work with standard packages of whatever I am dispensing (caulk or greases don't tend to come in the same syringes as solder paste!). E.g. one of these: http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers

[mahouny]

E.g. one of these: http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers

Are you serious ?
Good luck with hand dispensers...

[janoc]

E.g. one of these: http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers

Are you serious ?
Good luck with hand dispensers...

Yes, I am serious - what is wrong with this one, for example?
http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers/autotube-dispenser

And it works with collapsible tubes instead of syringes, which is more common packaging type for things like glues.

This one is also just fine when you are dispensing fluids:
http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers/ad93

It certainly wouldn't work for a solder paste (too high viscosity), but it is not meant for that.

I think you are suffering a bit of "I have a hammer so everything is nail now" syndrome. Unless you actually demonstrate (not only claim) that your product is superior for the intended use than any of these, you don't have much of an argument.

Your Kickstarter campaign isn't exactly going gangbusters neither and that is for the use as a solder paste dispenser where I believe it actually could be kinda useful. Even though good luck trying to do a large board with hundreds of pads by hand (and your device doesn't seem to be directly usable with a CNC or PnP machine, as presented) - after trying to do one or two such boards people tend to very quickly change to stencils.

[mahouny]

This one is also just fine when you are dispensing fluids:
http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers/ad93

OK, I think I have understood what you mean, and according to your idea, the following dispenser is probably the best for the precise application of fluids.



Hey, look ! There is no USB connector, no batteries required and it is compatible with very common cartridges... 

Of course, why on earth would anyone use electronic dispenser if they can jut purchase such great tool.
Every developers should immediately stop to develop their products  and use the existing products ! 

I love the proverb: "the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on"...

[janoc]

You have obviously not bothered to actually check what is that dispenser for (filling precise doses into tubes) and what it can do (adjustable shot size so that you can control the dispensed volume reproducibly), but you are comparing it to a handyman's caulk gun already 

Best of luck to your project, mate.

[mahouny]

Thank you for your wishes, however:

You have obviously not bothered to actually check what is that dispenser for...

Oh, really ?
First, I thought that you simply joking, but now I see that you just trolling. 

This is what is written in the user manual of the dispenser that you have suggested:



Wow, that's indeed is a very precise dosage of glues by 1 CC / 1ML  shots   
That should be perfect for DYI projects, crafts and products assembly...

So yes, I do believe that handyman's caulk gun is better.

Taking in to account the above, actually it seems that it's you, who haven't bothered at all, to check the specs.

I think, that before giving such nonsense advices and statements, you should take your time to check it first and of course compare comparable things. ("il faut comparer le comparable")
Because comparing the 1CC-5CC shots of FISNAR manual dispenser with adjustable from less that 1mm to any size, shots of I_EXTRUDER dispenser, it's simply stupid nonsense.

Unfortunately, I don't have a food for trolls anymore, so I will not respond to your further comments. 
"the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on"...

[dmmt40]

mmm it's been interesting to follow this, so I thought I’d add my opinion to the conversation and since I have almost 3 years of experience doing real work with adhesives and dispensers I’m a bit more qualified than janoc I think 

Those dispensers he mentioned are for INDUSTRIAL use, that’s an entirely different market and price point than the dispenser in this thread therefore it’s not fair to compare them. One is designed for hobbyists doing projects on the weekends and the other for continuous use in (relatively) high volume applications or to be used in the field. So apples and oranges really.

If we look at prices, the (now infamous) Fisnar hand tool retails close to $200 and the other system mentioned:

Yes, I am serious - what is wrong with this one, for example?
http://www.fisnar.com/products/hand-dispensers/autotube-dispenser

That one goes for $1300!!!
http://www.ellsworth.com/products/dispensing-equipment-supplies/dispensing-systems-fluid/dispenser-controller/fisnar-dc200-digital-dispenser-100-240-v/
http://www.ellsworth.com/products/dispensing-equipment-supplies/dispensing-systems-fluid/dispenser-controller/fisnar-atd200c-autotube-dispenser-for-8-oz-200-g-tube/


And good luck trying to get your hands on one of those, unless you live in the US or you’re a company most distributors won’t sell it to you directly.

Now, if you’re talking about more precise dispensing then it actually gets cheaper because of the chinese pneumatic dispensers on the market; but you still need a compressor and some people don’t want noisy equipment or don’t have the luxury of space/money to buy the whole system.

It all started I think because mahouny stated that his dispenser could be used with a battery pack and thus be portable. Well of course, that’s true of any USB powered device! but in all fairness he’s in his right to use it as a selling point.

In the end it’s the customers who will decide whether or not that’s useful for them, so really I don’t see what's the big deal to begin with.

[smbaker]

In the end it’s the customers who will decide whether or not that’s useful for them, so really I don’t see what's the big deal to begin with.

It's exciting that there seem to be a number of different paste dispensers aimed at the hobbyist market. Two on tindie (Mike Mencinger 's v5 dispenser,  Dan M's DM Dispenser) plus the subject of this thread. Lots of choices, and I don't think we hobbyists have ever complained about having too many tool choices. I can see advantages and disadvantages to each of them.

Right now, I have a cheap ebay air-operated dispenser, but it's kind of a beast to drag out and requires access to shop air. I plumbed shop air into my previous workshop, but it's not something I want to bother with in my current workshop.

These stepper operated dispensers seem like a great idea. It's just a matter of researching and picking the right one. USB powered/portability isn't something that I care about, but it's not something that would detract from my using the device.

[mahouny]

I just added to my first post, a new video of solder paste application on small 40x23mm Arduino compatible development board prototype.

[cereyanli]

@mahouny

Are you planning sell it on tindie or some other platform if kickstarter does not reach the goal ?

[mahouny]

@mahouny

Are you planning sell it on tindie or some other platform if kickstarter does not reach the goal ?

Hi,
kickstarter campaign will be relaunched in September, after vacations.

[ebclr]

I use hand dispenser for smd solder past, and no problem at all, This  electronic device with only a stepper motor does not have any advantage against a hand dispense, only disadvantages

Electronic dispenser without auger pump, simple put any amount of fluid they want no control at all

[Docholiday]

I use hand dispenser for smd solder past, and no problem at all, This  electronic device with only a stepper motor does not have any advantage against a hand dispense, only disadvantages

Electronic dispenser without auger pump, simple put any amount of fluid they want no control at all.





Excuse me for asking such a stupid question as I was unable to find any reference to a "Auger Pump". Even after asking a friend of mine that has 5,000 acres of ranch and farm land.

I know what a auger drill is but an auger pump?
How is that much better?
What are its advantages of an auger pump?
So. what in specific are these disadvantages for a stepper motor dispenser?

Perhaps this might be a naming convention (auger pump) in Europe and named here in America completely different?

I did purchase a dispenser stepper motor from fellow eevblog member 'dmmt40' You can see his solution at "https://www.tindie.com/products/DanM/dm-dispenser-for-solder-pastes-and-adhesives/" or view his eevblog forum entry at " https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/dm-dispenser-now-available/msg971620/#msg971620".

I have used it extensively and have found that for my application(s) it has worked flawlessly for me in its operation and performance. I did come across a couple of issues, the first being the start button sits a little loose and second there is a gap on the right hand side of the display where led lighting  peeks through and that can be annoying on your periphy vision, But I just turned the controller a little to alleviate that issue. I did inform the seller "dmmt40" and is aware of the issues and will on next release address it.

The only other issue I found which I can only imagine to be true of any of these dispensers even the ones at school which are air driven is the paste viscosity. To thick and the flow and flow back are burdensome causing you to dispense a un-uniform line. Okay, I am getting side tracked here - back to my original questions about this "auger pump" please.

Thanks,

Nicholas

[ebclr]