Whats a good solder sucker?

[veedub565]

Hi,

Can anyone recommend a good, manual spring plunger type solder sucker? In the past I've used some that were rubbish, and others that were brilliant. Both looked the same (at first glance anyway) so makes it difficult to try and pick a good one online.

I should add I'm UK based, so preferably a brand which is available over here.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Pretty much the grandfather of them all:

http://www.edsyn.com/category/DHT.html

Likely not available from stock in Antartica, should be stocked on all the other continents.

To a great extent the world has moved on to automatic (vacuum pump) based gear rather than the manual units. That's why the manual ones still look like (and perform like) they did thirty years ago. Worked ok then, still work ok today.

Bob

[Nuno_pt]

Or the ZD-985, around 80USD.

[KL27x]

Original Soldapult is great. I have the OK industries clone, DP-100, which has also been a rock star.*

But IMO, there's a new king of the hill, Soldapult III. Also on the first responder's linked page. Slightly smaller in OD, slightly shorter, easier to depress, and less shock/vibration, but with the same results... way better than the $6.00 generic sucker. Also, the "3" only screws together one direction, whereas the original goes together in two ways, 180 degrees apart... so once you have the tip formed to how you want it, the Soldapult 3 is less fuss with no problem putting it back together the right way. But either one will last about forever and take just a half twist to get apart and back together.

*I have come across one on a site that just didn't work, though. The body was slightly too large on the ID, so the O ring doesn't seal. Futzing with some assorted O rings and section of rubber band to tighten the fit, I got it working better than mine.

[linux-works]

never had much luck with one-shot suckers.

after you play around with junk long enough, you finally decide to get serious.  I searched ebay for a used pace unit like the 'mbt'.  could not be happer.

for a bit less money, there is the hakko 'gun' solder sucker that is powered.

you really want powered.  eventually you ruin pads waiting to spring that one-shot sucker many times to get trouble holes clean.

this is an area it does NOT pay to cheap-out.  a ruined board is worth the cost of one pace desoldering unit, to me.  buy it once, get the accessories (filters, hoses) and you are set for many years.  a hobbiest can live with that unit for the rest of his life since its industrial quality.

[KL27x]

Solder suckers are not junk! You got some bad apples. I take a good solder sucker over 10 free ZD-985's. One shot, one clean pad. The part will fall out by itself, half the time. I do not add flux... adding flux makes it easier to see when the solder reflows, but it is not necessary and only gunks up the sucker. The Edsyn will suck the chunky fluxless solder clean out, over and over and over. I've removed scores of 14 pin thru hole components in a sitting, no problem. Temp/tip changes are as fast as your iron. No extra parts, easy maintenance.

I'll take a hakko or a pace, no lie. But it won't completley replace the solder sucker by a long shot.

[MarkF]

I bought this cheapo from Amazon Blue Solder Sucker.  Works okay for me.

[uncle_bob]

I bought this cheapo from Amazon Blue Solder Sucker.  Works okay for me.

Hi

The only question I would have about that one is ESD.

Bob

[MarkF]

I bought this cheapo from Amazon Blue Solder Sucker.  Works okay for me.

Hi

The only question I would have about that one is ESD.

Bob

You're expecting a lot for $2.00.   I have not had any problems with ESD at this time.  Although, it hasn't been heavily used.

[KL27x]

What 20.00 gets you over 2.00...
The spring in the Edsyn pulls, rather than pushes. The entire spring is on the other side of the gasket, where it stays relatively free of solder bits. The thing comes apart with 90% twist, on large locking lugs that will never wear out. Just two halves, no springs to pull out and put back in. The plunger resets itself, so the spring is pushing only itself and the gasket, not the entire plunger, for higher acceleration and great burst... and less damage to your overhead lamp. The high internal volume creates a lot of suction. It will not break or wear out.

[uncle_bob]

I bought this cheapo from Amazon Blue Solder Sucker.  Works okay for me.

Hi

The only question I would have about that one is ESD.

Bob

You're expecting a lot for $2.00.   I have not had any problems with ESD at this time.  Although, it hasn't been heavily used.

Hi

Not really expecting ESD protection, just observing that you seem to have lost it at that price level.

Bob

[KL27x]

Not really expecting ESD protection, just observing that you seem to have lost it at that price level.

What makes you think that? Because it doesn't explicitly state ESD safe? I expect ESD problem to be the same as any other solder sucker with a Teflon tip. Nothing to worry about. 

[janoc]

Engineer SS-02

https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-SS-02-Solder-Sucker/dp/B002MJMXD4

Has a soft silicone tip that seals around the joint to increase suction. Works really really well, running circles around most of the normal suckers with the teflon tip. I don't even bother pulling out my desoldering gun anymore unless I have to suck off a lot of joints. However, it is a bit small, so if you have large hands you may struggle a bit with it.

[m98]

I'm using a "classic", cheap solder sucker: https://www.beta-estore.com/rkuk/order_product_details.html?wg=92&p=39
Works just fine and I really like the comfortable one hand operation.

[linux-works]

'works fine' until you ruin pads.

just try one of the motordriven ones.  if you have not used one, you cannot really comment about how much better they are.

this hobby or field has costs.  if you cheap-out, you get lesser results.  I've ruined my share of boards by using substandard tools.

for super simple work, the junk may get you by, but they really are toys.  once you use real gear, you never want to go back.

just save your money until you can buy the proper tool.  a job worth doing is worth doing well, etc etc.

(for the record, I used to think like you and I owned various suction pump things; but once I found a used motor-based vacuum unit, it was almost life-changing; that's how good it was and now I don't fear doing any rework that needs solder removal.)

[linux-works]

also, hang out in the hobby long enough and you'll run into thermals and ground planes that just won't clear out with passive suckers.  you need to keep applying heat to get the solder out of such holes.

[KL27x]

FTR, I have a motorized vacuum station, albeit not a pace/hakko. A company I work with also has one.. I think it's an Auyoue?... collecting dust.

'works fine' until you ruin pads.

you'll run into thermals and ground planes that just won't clear out with passive suckers.  you need to keep applying heat to get the solder out of such holes.

There is no functional difference. If you need more or less heat, you control that with the soldering iron tip, temp, and duration of application. You have full control. I suppose some people are not as deft at using two hands at the same time, though. 

I don't know how you could even lift a pad. I have the tip of the iron pressed on the pad, holding it down, until after the suction is over. If you're doing some weird thing where you're trying to switch the iron and the sucker and jam the button, all at the same time, you're doing it wrong.

1. Position sucker
2. Apply tip of iron to joint, sliding it under the tip of the sucker
3. Tilt sucker to form a good suction over the tip of the soldering iron, which takes a fraction of a second, easily accomplished by the time the joint is thoroughly molten. (After several uses, the tip will melt to the shape of your usual iron tips, but you can easily notch it with a knife).
4. Press button at your leisure.
5. Remove sucker and iron.

this hobby or field has costs.  if you cheap-out, you get lesser results.  I've ruined my share of boards by using substandard tools.

If it's an irreplaceable board, I will use the solder sucker and the soldering iron, not the motorized tool with the slow response and bulky tip and the relatively higher temp needed to get the solder to suck up without clogging inside the tool.

A solder sucker can be successfully used at lower temps to the joint. That's scientific fact, AFAIC. The solder only has to be molten at the pad. It can be frozen solid by the rushing air as soon as it leaves the pad. There's no metal tube where the solder can adhere and clog.

[RobertHolcombe]

I do agree with linux-works - once you've used a powered desoldering gun/station there is no going back to the manual type for regular use. The manual type are a very good budget solution and indispensable for someone working as a field service technician where access to mains can be a limitation - that is the sole reason I still own one (Edsyn).

[KL27x]

The desoldering gun takes a long time to heat up and only does a limited pitch/pin size per the tip. The desoldering station takes up space. A lot. The desoldering pump is universal, and you can easily/quickly change the tip on a solder iron to suit. Plus a decent iron heats up in under 15 seconds. There's no way I would ever be without a solder sucker. (A good one!).

If you have a good sucker and learn to use it, there is only one advantage to the station. Speed. And there's just no room on my bench for this station, short of doing some kind of component salvage for pennies type of work or large batch repetitive repair.

[uncle_bob]

Not really expecting ESD protection, just observing that you seem to have lost it at that price level.

What makes you think that? Because it doesn't explicitly state ESD safe? I expect ESD problem to be the same as any other solder sucker with a Teflon tip. Nothing to worry about. 

Hi

..... errrr ... they were outlawed in most places I worked until the mods with the conductive bodies came along. The issue is that flake of solder that pops out carrying a nice fat charge ....

Bob

[KL27x]

How much charge do you think a flake of solder can hold?  What would compel the flake to have a different state of charge than the pad and the rest of the trace that it is egressing from?  Never mind that the ESD safe soldering iron that is touching the pad while this is all occurring will be keeping it at ground? 

Perhaps your former employer had a practical reason for banning these things. And perhaps it was even related to ESD. And perhaps the reason applies to you, in your own home/lab.


But I doubt it.

[uncle_bob]

How much charge do you think a flake of solder can hold?  What would compel the flake to have a different state of charge than the pad and the rest of the trace that it is egressing from?  Never mind that the ESD safe soldering iron that is touching the pad while this is all occurring will be keeping it at ground? 

Perhaps your former employer had a practical reason for banning these things. And perhaps it was even related to ESD. And perhaps the reason applies to you, in your own home/lab.


But I doubt it.

Hi

You missed the point.

The plunger in some of the designs would charge the body of the device. That body formed a capacitor relative to the hand holding it. As it charges up ... you get a fairly will charged capacitor. Fly a chunk of metal from the charged surface to your circuit ... you get ESD. Make the body conductive and the problem goes away. The capacitor discharges through the operator's hand. The operator is grounded so no ESD.

Bob

[linux-works]

I don't know how you could even lift a pad. I have the tip of the iron pressed on the pad, holding it down, until after the suction is over. If you're doing some weird thing where you're trying to switch the iron and the sucker and jam the button, all at the same time, you're doing it wrong.

try just one china made consumer board.  pads lift off just by looking at them.  board quality can be very low and yet you still have to do rework and make that board work.  with good boards, pads don't lift after even a few reworks.  with china boards, sometimes just 1 rework ruins things.  sad but true.

I pay extra for american made boards, but not everyone thinks that way.

[KL27x]

Linux.
You have found a solution that works for you. Maybe you didn't learn how to use a solder sucker and/or maybe you did not find a good one.

Not sure what any of this has to do with American made boards, but I'm glad you buy American boards. I'm an American. Yea, America. Woot.

So your desoldering station can remove parts from cheap Chinese boards which you don't buy?

[KL27x]

You missed the point.

The plunger in some of the designs would charge the body of the device. That body formed a capacitor relative to the hand holding it. As it charges up ... you get a fairly will charged capacitor. Fly a chunk of metal from the charged surface to your circuit ... you get ESD. Make the body conductive and the problem goes away. The capacitor discharges through the operator's hand. The operator is grounded so no ESD.

Ahh, so you're saying flakes of solder fall back out of the device. They are charged, because the sucker is charged. And this "charged" flake of solder destroys chips with ESD?

I ask again, how much charge do you think a flake of solder can hold? If I touched a flake of solder to 1000V then touched it to ground, how much charge do you suppose a flake of solder will transfer?

Say I take a 1000uF capacitor charged to 1000V. And I clip a little off of each of the leads. Then set these little clipped leads down on an insulated surface. Do you think one is going to be much different than the other? The leads are just the conductor, not the part that holds the charge.  A flake of solder is no different. When it rains, and I'm standing under a power line, I don't get shocked by the drop of water that falls from the lines to my head. Even if I take this charged up capacitor and touch one lead or the other on all my ESD sensitive components, nothing happens, lol. Even if I switch back and forth between positive lead and negative lead, nothing happens, lol. Why would a little clipped end of a lead do anything? When one end of the capacitor is GROUNDED with my circuit, then yeah... So using a metal sucker helps... how.... 

Unless two separate pieces of solder flake spontaneously form an air gap capacitor long enough to get charged and to hit the board on two separate traces at the same time before it collapse on itself, I don't see how this is going to damage the board through ESD.

Did I miss the point?