Author Topic: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers  (Read 18801 times)

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Offline nikifenaTopic starter

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Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« on: January 20, 2018, 04:05:45 pm »
Hi there. I've got a weller RTW1 irons, but I have no the iron holder handle. I think to print similar handle with a 3D printer, so I will thankful if someone can send me several pictures how the handle looks inside.

I've found the male connector for the irons here: http://uk.farnell.com/binder/09-9792-30-05/socket-5way-panel/dp/1122809?st=Circular%20Connector,%20719%20Series


Niki

 

Offline eeviking

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 08:03:58 pm »
You mean you only have the tips and want to diy the hand piece ?

What station do you want to connect it to?

All the WX hand pieces contain a small pcb with at least a accelerometer and eeprom to store temperature setting etc. Not something that is easy to reverse engineer.

But there is diy designs for stations that use the WXMP tips. I guess you could just make a 2ch version of that to run a WXMT tip. You just need to figure out the pinout.
 

Offline nikifenaTopic starter

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2018, 01:44:18 pm »
Yes, I have got the tips only.
I found this project on the net: http://kair.us/projects/weller/
and I have made my PCB design of the board
These tips have only a temperature sensor for cold junction compensation. So there is almost nothing.
I'm asking just for few pictures inside the tip holder.

Thanks
 

Offline eeviking

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 08:01:20 pm »
Here you go  :)

Just ask me if you need more.

edit: This is a WXMT
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 07:00:03 pm by eeviking »
 
The following users thanked this post: mcinque, Mr. Scram

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 10:00:07 am »
Wow, a cut off cable tie as strain relief?
 

Offline eeviking

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 03:41:54 pm »
Wow, a cut off cable tie as strain relief?

Hand made in Germany I think. If it works as a quick hack at home it must be good enough for production of 230$ handle right? ::)
 

Offline eeviking

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 06:58:36 pm »
As I got a question about it, I will just clarify that the pictures I posted are of a WXMT for WX stations.
Here is a thread on a German forum with pics and schematic of the WMRT if anyone want to build a DIY one:
https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/436075
 

Offline nikifenaTopic starter

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 07:09:44 pm »
Thanks!
I'm still haven't made the tweezer complete yet, but if there is progress, I will inform you here.
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2019, 10:03:58 pm »
Anyone have any luck converting one of the WMRT 12V handles to 24V? I noticed Weller discontinued the 24V models and they're all 12V now, however the tips that plug in are identical so they must have simply wired both heating elements in parallel for 12V. I will dig deeper into it, so annoying to be sent a 12V unit that isn't compatible with the WD1/WD2 soldering stations, only the almost identical looking *multifunction(tm) WD1M/WD2M models or WM/WX base stations. AGH. They must have also moved the pin where the thermalcouple is, so the heater power stays off also.

EDIT: I'm looking over the Unisolder documentation first. I see independant heater1 and heater2 for the 1 jack, so this is how they make the 12/24V units auto switchable.

EDIT2: Bah, need a k-type thermocouple amplifier. I was initially confused by the old availability of 24V handles that mention WD1/WD2 compatibility. It seems it was a misprint and although the 24V handles exist, the tips still use k-type thermos.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 11:06:47 pm by Spyke »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2019, 10:46:59 pm »
Anyone have any luck converting one of the WMRT 12V handles to 24V? I noticed Weller discontinued the 24V models and they're all 12V now, however the tips that plug in are identical so they must have simply wired both heating elements in parallel for 12V. I will dig deeper into it, so annoying to be sent a 12V unit that isn't compatible with the WD1/WD2 soldering stations, only the almost identical looking *multifunction(tm) WD1M/WD2M models or WM/WX base stations. AGH. They must have also moved the pin where the thermalcouple is, so the heater power stays off also.

EDIT: I'm looking over the Unisolder documentation first. I see independant heater1 and heater2 for the 1 jack, so this is how they make the 12/24V units auto switchable.
That may explain why I have a handle with two sets of tips, of which one doesn't seem to respond to the station. I couldn't detect a difference between the tips after opening both up, but I may have overlooked switched pins. It's a WD2M station.
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2019, 11:21:40 pm »
Weller has gone absolutely mad on the marketing, so the WXMT/WMRT are identical, as is the WXRP/WMRP, did the change in soldering station *really* need new part numbers? Oh they updated the stand too... intentional just to confuse everyone perhaps.
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2019, 11:19:08 pm »
Weller has gone absolutely mad on the marketing, so the WXMT/WMRT are identical, as is the WXRP/WMRP, did the change in soldering station *really* need new part numbers? Oh they updated the stand too... intentional just to confuse everyone perhaps.

Your definition of identical is quite different to mine obviously.

For anyone reading the above comment by Spyke, disregard it, you cannot interchange the hand pieces (i.e. use a WR hand piece on a WX).
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2019, 11:35:31 pm »
Your definition of identical is quite different to mine obviously.

For anyone reading the above comment by Spyke, disregard it, you cannot interchange the hand pieces (i.e. use a WR hand piece on a WX).
I agree with Spyke that Weller has gone off the deep end in that regard, though. There appear to be a whole host of very similar variations and it's often surprisingly hard to find out what you need exactly or what is compatible. Standardisation isn't really Weller's game.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2019, 11:47:02 pm »
Wow, a cut off cable tie as strain relief?

is this bad? i am serious, I have done this before.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2019, 12:00:36 am »
is this bad? i am serious, I have done this before.
I guess it works, but it seems there should be a better way of distributing the stresses than using a cable tie with a big lump on one side. Though I'm willing to admit that Weller may have done its homework and found a more expensive option isn't much better.
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2019, 03:46:26 am »
Physically identical doesn't mean electrically identical, oh they added a "motion sensor" instead of a reed switch, kept the same heaters and tips, identical enough, but not enough to force new equipment purchasing. Its a load of nonsense. They broke backwards compat because they could, not because they needed to. Oh they also added some flashy blue lights in some of their handles, not like that was ever important for soldering. Makes you wonder why they even released a physically identical looking base station WDxM only to just replace the entire works with the WX line shortly thereafter.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 03:55:08 am by Spyke »
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2019, 04:06:43 am »
Weller has gone absolutely mad on the marketing, so the WXMT/WMRT are identical, as is the WXRP/WMRP, did the change in soldering station *really* need new part numbers? Oh they updated the stand too... intentional just to confuse everyone perhaps.

Your definition of identical is quite different to mine obviously.

For anyone reading the above comment by Spyke, disregard it, you cannot interchange the hand pieces (i.e. use a WR hand piece on a WX).

Defender of Weller's shady business practices of cloning products and creating ever minute changes to force people to buy their new stations. Okay, I'm wrong, not identical, going to defend that it isn't shady?
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2019, 04:29:30 am »
Your definition of identical is quite different to mine obviously.
For anyone reading the above comment by Spyke, disregard it, you cannot interchange the hand pieces (i.e. use a WR hand piece on a WX).
Defender of Weller's shady business practices of cloning products and creating ever minute changes to force people to buy their new stations. Okay, I'm wrong, not identical, going to defend that it isn't shady?

The purpose of my post was to clear up any confusion that you could purchase WR hand pieces and use them on a WX station as they cannot be interchanged It's not obvious just looking at the pics but the connector is quite different (incompatible) and they are also use a different ID (software lock).

I'm not entering any debate on right, wrong, shady or otherwise.
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2019, 05:01:22 am »
Your definition of identical is quite different to mine obviously.
For anyone reading the above comment by Spyke, disregard it, you cannot interchange the hand pieces (i.e. use a WR hand piece on a WX).
Defender of Weller's shady business practices of cloning products and creating ever minute changes to force people to buy their new stations. Okay, I'm wrong, not identical, going to defend that it isn't shady?

The purpose of my post was to clear up any confusion that you could purchase WR hand pieces and use them on a WX station as they cannot be interchanged It's not obvious just looking at the pics but the connector is quite different (incompatible) and they are also use a different ID (software lock).

I'm not entering any debate on right, wrong, shady or otherwise.

Thanks, I was just frustrated how many different incompatible product lines, such short lived product lines also.
So it looks like the WT line (yet another new station), was the modern backwards compat I was looking for, supports all the old handles and all the k-type WM ones, basically just a modern looking WD1M/WD2M station, okay so they're not all bad.
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2019, 01:27:59 am »
So Weller ended up winning in this case as I now have the WXMT, WXMP and WX1. Thankful to the great people at tequipment for the handling of the WD2M/kit WMRT returns. Hopefully this setup won't be ditched anytime soon for new handle support.
 

Offline ksilabs

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2019, 09:18:38 pm »
BTW, does anybody know what is the difference between WMRT and WMRT-MS? Everybody and their grandma (including Weller) explicitly tell the RTW and RTW-MS tips are NOT compatible and only work with their specific handles. Same applies to WRMP and their RT/RT-MS tips...

On the other end of spectrum does anybody know how to disassemble WTP90 handle? I do already know what's inside but would like to put MAX31826 everywhere as ID/Parameters EEPROM AND cold junction sensor if needed (sensor will be unused in irons with Pt100/Pt20 resistance sensors.) Also want to put simple spring motion detector everywhere (e.g. WP80, WMP, PES-51 etc) to make them motion activated. Not all that critical as there are 3D-printed handles out there but would like to keep original one.

Right now reverse-engineering WR3M (will publish full schematics when done) but hacking it to work with PES-51, WTP90 (and many others) is not a viable task because all those irons are different and it is almost impossible to tell e.g. WP80 from WMP -- many of older irons only have heater on pins 1/2 and thermistor on 3/4 (PES-51 has K-type thermocouple without cold junction compensation) so they only differ in heater resistance if power is different which is not a viable source to ID the iron. BTW, WR3M has pins 1 and 3 connected together on its control board thus wasting a precious connector pin.

For now idea is to re-do the WR3M control and display boards and use 8-pin DIN connectors for tool connection. There are limited number of Weller irons so it is not rocket science to make replacement boards with MAX31826 and motion sensor for ALL known ones with unified 8-pin connector pinout. That would allow to use it with almost any 12/24V single/dual heater wires while providing automatic tool identification, maybe small set of tool-specific values loaded from the tool itself, motion activation without any magnets and much more.

All this is going to be open source so it could work with tools from other manufacturers as long as those are 12/24V and modified accordingly and use the same plug/pinout.

Not going to reverse-engineer their software in PIC18F6722 as it is too much work with questionable benefit. Will make a new board and write software from scratch. Not sure which microcontroller to use but leaning towards my beloved TI DSP, probably TMS320F28035 that I still have a full tray in stock.

The next step might probably be making something akin WR3M from scratch with 5 or 6 channels so one station would cover everything.
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2019, 05:20:46 pm »
The MS is just milspec, physically the connectors are identical but if I were to guess they wired the pins for the heaters differently in the handles themselves to be different to the non-MS heaters to minimize leakage current to meet milspec. I happen to have MS versions of WXMT and WXMP and from what I can tell the physical properties of the plugs are the same. You'll notice the heaters have more shielding around them on the milspec heaters/tips for the micropencil and tweezers.
 

Offline Spyke

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2019, 05:23:12 pm »
Also the physical design of the WX and WM series of the tweezers and micropencil are identical, Weller didn't even bother putting the blue LED in them when they added the accelerometer and eeprom, like they were short on design time to redesign these handles slightly. No reason why they couldn't modernize those handles to be like the rest of the WX lineup, even if the tips remained the same. They could have added the fancy strain relief also.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2019, 05:54:16 pm »
Note people are having reliability problems with the Weller tweezers.
The housing aluminium EMI coating flakes off, and the conductive flakes short the PC board.
 

Offline ksilabs

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Re: Whats inside Weller WMRT Tweezers
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2019, 09:05:24 pm »
I've purchased some RT-MS and RTW-MS tips so I would be able to find out the difference between MS and non-MS versions, no problems. Also got a couple of WTP90 heater cartridges really cheap from Amazon as well as second WTP90 iron so have more than enough to experiment with.

The changed  :) plan now is to throw out Weller WMRP/WMRT/WTP90 handles completely and only use their tips. Going to go full-digital route putting something like ADuC7061 microcontroller inside handles that would take care of all temperature measurements, button(s) handling, motion detection and would speak digital-ese with the station. Station itself would provide and control 12/24V AC power and user interface as well as compressed air / vacuum for the tools that need it. It would also serve as a proxy for iron microcontroller firmware updates and configuration (tool type/model, calibration, whatever) when connected to a PC and will be probably able to perform all that on its own using e.g. external USB Stick.

I would also make retrofit boards for popular irons (e.g. DXV80,HAP1/200,WP80 etc) so they would be able to speak digital-ese too. Will try to fit a status LED and a button in the handles too. The button would allow to turn the iron on/off without doing anything on the station.

The station itself would probably have a beefy toroidal transformer and a whole bunch of triacs (4 per channel to make it possible to feed either 12 or 24V to 2 heaters.) Will probably have something like 5 or 6 channels as mere 3 channels in that expensive WR3M is not enough so one has to purchase at least TWO of those (or a handicapped version thereof for a second station.)

I'm also thinking about putting a tiny OLED display next to each channel connector so every tool could show something useful and tool-specific in addition to the system-wide bigger display.

Everything is going to be open source so others would be able to join and adapt their own tools to that thing, not necessarily being from Weller at all.

Seems to be an interesting and fun project. I might even go crowdfunding and start building those in quantity if there was interest.

But that all is just in a conceptual stage right now so it might change significantly and I might even never take on that as I do have two WR3M stations on hand (as well as 2 WR3000s for using as part donors for first prototypes) and whole bunch of irons (WP80, WMP, WMRT, WMRP, DVX80, HAP200, PES51, WTA50, WTP90 in multiples) so I might switch to some other project but for now it is the most interesting of several ones I'm working on.

It wouldn't've even materialized if WR3M had supported that nice WTP90 iron :)

As of now I'm something like 80% done reverse-engineering WR3M main board. Will post a full schematic when done for everybody's benefit.
I do also have its PIC18F8722 binary firmware (available from Weller as firmware update) but don't know if I would even try to make sense from junk disassembled source -- it would be probably way easier and faster to re-do everything from scratch using more suitable microcontroller.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 09:07:21 pm by ksilabs »
 


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