Which soldering station? JBC, Metcal, Weller...

[DL8RI]

I'd say most ceapies die even before one high quality tip does

As far as tip-costs are concerned, I replace my "main Tip" (2mm chisel) every -maybe- 3 oder 4 Years. I do nearly no lead-free stuff.
Even if it would be 20€, it would not ruin me

Weller is also "out" for me, not because I've had issues with them, both my WS81 and my WMD3 perform well. And I haven't had any quality-issues with LT-Tips so far. But they are too expensive, a Weller WX1 without Iron costs the same as an i-Con with Iron. And I refuse to believe it will perform 100€ better

I'd have thought JBC would be relatively easy to find though, as they're located in the EU (Spain).

No, nowhere. Not even at RS-Components or Farnell. I could get it from some commercial eBay-Seller.

Only one place to get Ersa here (they have a US office; no 3rd party distributors), so they don't have much presence in the US at all.

Today they seem to be more in the Production-Line-Buisness not so much in hand tools. The hand-tools are most likely a little side-kick to be able to deliver a full production-site including hand-rework. Maybe that's the cause why they don't really care about 3rd-Party-Distributers.

[DL8RI]

And the i-Tool is really fast in heating up.

Great
Have you used it for some "hard work" like shielding-cases? How did it perform there?

I'm quite happy with that soldering station and it has some nice features like the selectable control loop (high overshoot, small overshoot and no overshoot) and a warning if the temperature is outside a specific window. You can adjust standby time and temperature, also power-off time.

I've downloaded the Manual, looks pretty neat.

I've never thought I'd end up with ERSA with this Thread. 

[madires]

Have you used it for some "hard work" like shielding-cases? How did it perform there?

I've soldered a lot of large connectors without any problems, takes just a moment longer. Same for stuff on ground planes.

[nanofrog]

Today they seem to be more in the Production-Line-Buisness not so much in hand tools. The hand-tools are most likely a little side-kick to be able to deliver a full production-site including hand-rework. Maybe that's the cause why they don't really care about 3rd-Party-Distributers.

Quite possible.

But given that their hand stations do apparently work so well, I'd think that they're thought of better than "just some measly little side line" by executive management. Not as much profit per unit by a long shot vs. the large production systems they sell, but I'd think they'd be able to sell enough that it's quite worth their while.

I'm interested in the features (over shoot settings in particular) and would like to give one a try just to see. Unfortunately, this isn't likely to happen due to such little presence here.

[Frost]

I'm interested in the features (over shoot settings in particular) and would like to give one a try just to see.

Here (on page 2 and 3) you will find a short explanation
about the temperature overshoot control.
It's a marketing brochure but I can't find any
better description, which is written in english.

http://www.ersa.com/media/pdf/fachartikel/fachartikel_englisch/improving_hand_soldering_operational_costs_and_process_control_2.pdf

[nanofrog]

I'm interested in the features (over shoot settings in particular) and would like to give one a try just to see.

Here (on page 2 and 3) you will find a short explanation
about the temperature overshoot control.
It's a marketing brochure but I can't find any
better description, which is written in english.

http://www.ersa.com/media/pdf/fachartikel/fachartikel_englisch/improving_hand_soldering_operational_costs_and_process_control_2.pdf

Thanks.

[neslekkim]

JBC has am amazing variety of tips, I don't know about the Ersa so if it matters you should check.

Yes, and good tips from JBC also:

Cost an arm and a leg though, but they supposedly have good life, and it's day and night from an hakko888/936, really happy about my choice, even for hobby use.

[SteveyG]

Personally I prefer the Metcal irons, but the JBCs work well.

Yes, but the Metcal stations are really hard to get here in germany.
Weidinger sells Metcal too, but only to companies not to private buyers.

Farnell/Element14 will ship to Germany. Their prices are fairly competitive on the Metcal irons.

[quarros]

is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?

No JBC is too.

Update:
I stand corrected. Sorry my bad. Thanks guys for the detailed explanations.

[DL8RI]

Hi!

Farnell/Element14 will ship to Germany. Their prices are fairly competitive on the Metcal irons.

Yes, nearly the same price, a bit cheaper.
What for my intended use is quite a setback of the Metcals (at least the MFR-1100) in comparison to the Ersa or JBC is the Standby. It goes int a "sleep-mode" immediately after I put the Iron into the stand, but stays hot for two hours and then goes into hibernate. Two hours is quite long, and the only way to wake it up again is to turn it off and on. The other two can be configured to go into hibernate quite quick, but wake up on removing the Iron from the stand.

In this domain JBC is the King. ERSA has the features but is not fast enough. With it, I'll have to wait a few seconds.

[robrenz]

is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?

No JBC is too.

Not so.

JBC is resistive heating, the heater element is also the thermocouple that measures temperature.

[DL8RI]

Found this Video stating why Metcal is better than a Hakko 936
OK International ??

I find it a quite interesting that Metcal also regulates the Temperature via the Curie-Effect. Just like the good old Weller TCP "click".
Of course the heating and regulating mechanism is different

As far as I know Metcal is the only company using RF-Heaters. Simply because all the others have DIN-Plugs on their Irons and DIN and RF are definitively incompatible.

[nanofrog]

im now being amazed by metcal after looking at what it is in youtube. is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?

Thermaltronics and Weller (WTCPT) also offer Curie Point based stations.

[Dago]

is it the only soldering equipment to use inductive heating?

No JBC is too.

JBC does not use inductive heating. It has just a "regular" heating element. The trick is that the element is integrated to the tip (forming a cartridge) and the temperature sensor (a thermocouple joint formed inside the tip) is a part of the heating element itself.

Btw. there is at least http://www.thermaltronics.com/ which makes induction soldering irons. I think I read that the founder of that company had something to do with Metcal. Also some chinese copies on eBay.

As far as I know Metcal is the only company using RF-Heaters. Simply because all the others have DIN-Plugs on their Irons and DIN and RF are definitively incompatible.

Hmm? I'm quite sure the Metcal (well OKi actually) I had (before I bought a proper soldering iron, JBC ) had a DIN-plug.

[mamalala]

Hmm? I'm quite sure the Metcal (well OKi actually) I had (before I bought a proper soldering iron, JBC ) had a DIN-plug.

That's the low frequency system from Metcal. The "normal" ones (STSS/RFG30, MX500, MX5000 series) use 13.56 MHz and have a F connector.

Greetings,

Chris

[Fsck]

There are basically two variations of inductive soldering irons. 4xxkHz (I've seen datasheets/manuals for 400, 420 and 470) and then the 13.56MHz variants. 13.56MHz variants all seem to use f-type connectors, and the 4xxkHz appear to all use the DIN connectors. All the higher end stations also appear to all be 13.56MHz systems.

Most likely the difference in connectors&cabling relate to the skin effect, which at 13.56MHz is a bit of a problem compared to at 4xxkHz. don't remember the damned graphs but 470kHz (highest kHz-range irons I've seen), skin effect shouldn't be too bad which is why DIN connectors can be used.

As for Metcal and Thermaltronics, they're basically playing in the same sandbox together. IIRC, some people forked out of Metcal and left to start Thermaltronics. after that, their technologies were basically developed in parallel and there's a lot of inter-compatibility between them.

[SteveyG]

Hi!

Farnell/Element14 will ship to Germany. Their prices are fairly competitive on the Metcal irons.

Yes, nearly the same price, a bit cheaper.
What for my intended use is quite a setback of the Metcals (at least the MFR-1100) in comparison to the Ersa or JBC is the Standby. It goes int a "sleep-mode" immediately after I put the Iron into the stand, but stays hot for two hours and then goes into hibernate. Two hours is quite long, and the only way to wake it up again is to turn it off and on. The other two can be configured to go into hibernate quite quick, but wake up on removing the Iron from the stand.

In this domain JBC is the King. ERSA has the features but is not fast enough. With it, I'll have to wait a few seconds.

I don't think you should worry too much about the sleep mode. The cartridges last ages if properly cared for, and the low power mode keeps them low enough in temperature that they may as well be off from an oxidisation point of view. One of my colleagues left one on for nearly a month in low power (didn't have a sleep mode) and the tip didn't suffer at all.

Personally I'd stick to the Metcal irons over the OKi ones (MFR etc.)

[cowana]

ERSA i-Con with i-Tool. And since you're living also in 'Schland there are no problems with availability. BTW, ERSA is less expensive than Weller and delivers better tools, IMHO.

Another vote for the iCon here.

After getting spoilt by the JBC irons at my university, I decided my Aoyue iron wasn't really up to scratch, and I should purchase a proper iron. I looked at JBCs, but I'm not a fan of the stand being built in to the control panel (their Compact line), and the price was a bit rich for their Modular line.  I ended up getting an Ersa iCon - and I can genuinely recommend it over a JBC.

It's true it's a little slower to get up to temperature, but the iTool soldering iron is one of the nicest I've held - very small, light, tiny grip-to-tip distance, super flexible cable - and all that while delivering up to 150W and the handle not getting hot. I've got tips ranging from a 0.4mm point to a 12mm chisel, and they all perform brilliantly. It has an accelerometer in the handle, and goes to sleep after a set time when you put it down.

Andy

[DL8RI]

Personally I'd stick to the Metcal irons over the OKi ones (MFR etc.)

I often read that. But a MX-5XXX-Station is with Tax at around 650€. And that nearly doubles the price of the two others.

After getting spoilt by the JBC irons at my university, I decided my Aoyue iron wasn't really up to scratch, and I should purchase a proper iron. I looked at JBCs, but I'm not a fan of the stand being built in to the control panel (their Compact line), and the price was a bit rich for their Modular line.  I ended up getting an Ersa iCon - and I can genuinely recommend it over a JBC.

Thank you for your answer. As you had the chance to test both, that's quite interesting
Although I know there's not that much space in this "High-End"-Area between manufacturers.

I think I'll get a ERSA i-Con 1 soon. It's the easiest to get here in Germany, is perfectly in my price-range and has some nice features. Starting this thread I was quite sure to get a JBC, but the discussion changed my mind.

Despite my choice I want to thank all of you for the nice discussion and your replies.
And I thank all "everything-else-is-shit"-fanboys for not writing even one single post here in this thread

[madires]

If you go for the i-Con with the i-Tool I recommend to get some additional tip fasteners for your convenience. They are about EUR 5 each and available in two colors (black 3IT1040-00 and green 3IT1045-00). The green ones are meant for tips used only for lead-free solder. I bought mine from Reichelt. They don't offer them in their online shop but will get them from ERSA for you (also special tips). There's a dedicated ERSA online shop (www.ersa-shop.de, fair prices) but I don't got any experience with that one.

[Fsck]

You should go old models, unless you really have money to burn for spiffy new design and not that much difference in power (unless you use those ginormous tips (think quad tips for metcal) or those JBC C470 tips which can deliver 250W with appropriate station).

I'd suggest trolling around ebay, or whatever other resource there is over there for used items searching for something like a Metcal STSS, JBC AD(2700/2910/2950/4200/4300) [AD prefixes each number]. The lowest I've ever seen an STSS + pencil go was 135$, still requires a standby stand. The lowest I've seen an AD2700 go was somewhere around 150, standard kit (psu+iron+stand). I've also seen the 4300 go for 175$, PSU only.
Also, if you really do want an Ersa, I see at least 7 i-Con's on ebay Canada (means restricted to auctioneers who say they'll ship to Canada, typically). I see a 200$ USD BIN which includes the PSU, iron and iron stand, I kind of expect similar in Europe.

used soldering irons are a great way to save bucks if you're already inclined to purchase a new one as tips tend to be the large determination in performance. though I'm not sure about the durability of the fancier digital interface PSUs.

[Xaero1982]

If you go for the i-Con with the i-Tool I recommend to get some additional tip fasteners for your convenience. They are about EUR 5 each and available in two colors (black 3IT1040-00 and green 3IT1045-00). The green ones are meant for tips used only for lead-free solder. I bought mine from Reichelt. They don't offer them in their online shop but will get them from ERSA for you (also special tips). There's a dedicated ERSA online shop (www.ersa-shop.de, fair prices) but I don't got any experience with that one.

I bought my I-Con Nano from http://www.ersa-shop.com (Not the same as .de) and  I can really recommend that shop. 

[SteveyG]

used soldering irons are a great way to save bucks if you're already inclined to purchase a new one as tips tend to be the large determination in performance. though I'm not sure about the durability of the fancier digital interface PSUs.

All the fun is in getting a new iron fresh out the box.  You'd normally keep a soldering station for tens of years probably so not the worst way to blow your cash.

[Fsck]

used soldering irons are a great way to save bucks if you're already inclined to purchase a new one as tips tend to be the large determination in performance. though I'm not sure about the durability of the fancier digital interface PSUs.

All the fun is in getting a new iron fresh out the box.  You'd normally keep a soldering station for tens of years probably so not the worst way to blow your cash.

personally, I'd rather save the money and get more stuff or upgrade some of the antiques I've been using

[DL8RI]

Hi,

normally I'd say yes.
But I will rather not buy a used soldering-station. I've seen quite a few which had to take a lot of mechanical abuse (near junk experience ).
And the ones which did not, well, a few minutes ago a Metcal MX-PS5000 was sold for 350€, without any warranty of course.
The i-Con 1 is not that often at ebay, usually ends at ~200€+shipping if in reasonable condition. More often you can get the i-Con 2 with two Handpieces like the i-Tool and tweezers (which I don't need). For them I'd have to pay as much as for a new i-Con 1.

If I have to pay nearly 2/3 of the price of a new unit, I stick to the new one. No risk, no cleaning and a nice new original packed product.