Author Topic: Anzac H-125 hybrid junction (Read 8398 times)

bsalai · « **on:** February 17, 2017, 07:11:02 pm »

I found this in my junk box

while I was looking for something else. I can't remember when or where I got it, but it was likely 30 or 40 years ago. I can't find any information about it on the web, does anyone recall it or have any information about it?

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tombi · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2017, 01:08:40 am »

Hmm - Found some other Hybrid power dividers with other H numbers but not h-125.

Like this one.
https://www.radio741.com/categories/power-divider-combiner/bnc-hybrid-junction-anzac-h-5-detail.html

Tom

AF6LJ · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2017, 04:31:02 am »

Quote from: bsalai on February 17, 2017, 07:11:02 pm

I found this in my junk box while I was looking for something else. I can't remember when or where I got it, but it was likely 30 or 40 years ago. I can't find any information about it on the web, does anyone recall it or have any information about it?

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Know anybody with network analyzer...
A scailer network. analyzer would do.

radar_macgyver · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2017, 05:04:32 am »

Quote from: AF6LJ on February 20, 2017, 04:31:02 am

Know anybody with network analyzer...
A scailer network. analyzer would do.

Not quite - if it's a hybrid, the phase shift between the output ports can be 90 degree or 180 degree. Of course, one might not care what the phase shift is...

bsalai · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2017, 01:04:00 pm »

I'll see if I can find somebody, but in the meantime what do you think about the idea of feeding a signal from a signal generator into one port and looking at the other two ports on the scope. That should give me an idea of the magnitude and phase don't you think?

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AF6LJ · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2017, 01:55:17 pm »

Quote from: bsalai on February 20, 2017, 01:04:00 pm

I'll see if I can find somebody, but in the meantime what do you think about the idea of feeding a signal from a signal generator into one port and looking at the other two ports on the scope. That should give me an idea of the magnitude and phase don't you think?

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I think that is a good idea

AF6LJ · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2017, 01:59:02 pm »

Quote from: radar_macgyver on February 20, 2017, 05:04:32 am

Quote from: AF6LJ on February 20, 2017, 04:31:02 am
Know anybody with network analyzer...
A scailer network. analyzer would do.

Not quite - if it's a hybrid, the phase shift between the output ports can be 90 degree or 180 degree. Of course, one might not care what the phase shift is...

Good Point however...
This will get him into the ballpark...
Frequency wise...
I would open it up to see what type of combiner it is.
That would be the best way to gain some insight into what it actually is and what to expect from it.

bsalai · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2017, 08:15:45 pm »

As long as I'm careful, is there any risk in opening it up? It isn't hermetically sealed is it??

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AF6LJ · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2017, 02:42:14 am »

Quote from: bsalai on February 20, 2017, 08:15:45 pm

As long as I'm careful, is there any risk in opening it up? It isn't hermetically sealed is it??

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Just be real careful and don't touch anything.
If you can take a picture
I am assuming those are N connectors on the package.

It doesn't look like it is back filled with nitrogen If it was there would be a seal screw with a gasket.

bsalai · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2017, 03:13:47 am »

They are N connectors. I didn't see any sign of a seal screw, I'll look again and if I don't find one, I'll try taking it apart carefully. I'll definitely post a picture of what I find.

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bsalai · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2017, 07:10:11 pm »

Here are some pictures:

The conductors look relatively large to me, 16–18 gauge?
Five of the Bobbons have a single winding, the sixth one, the one with the small external coil next to it appears to have two windings. Each of the end connectors has a small phenolic for that has the center pin on one side and a connection on the other side, possibly a capacitor? I'll make some measurements.

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AF6LJ · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2017, 07:31:24 pm »

Given the lead liengths and the point to point wiring as apposed to a circuit boar, it looks like this was intended to be used in the 3-60MHZ range or maybe the low TV channels.

bsalai · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:45:25 pm »

Does the fact that the paths are not identical suggest that there is an intention to introduce a phase shift?

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bsalai · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:50:35 pm »

Also, there is continuity between all three center pins of the N connectors

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bsalai · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:53:49 pm »

I'll hook it up to a scope and see what the phases look like. I wonder what the small pieces of what looks like circuit board at the three connectors is for.

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AF6LJ · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2017, 11:31:22 pm »

I would agree.

bsalai · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2017, 12:02:46 pm »

I looked at the phase difference between the two outputs and it is small between 3 and 50 MHz. This seems odd to me because of the different configurations of the first inductors in the signal paths. But my knowledge of such things is very limited.
Given that it seems to work in the HF range, and produces in phase outputs, what would it be used for. I suppose it could split a signal between two antennas. Would that be likely to be a principal use?

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T3sl4co1l · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2017, 02:21:20 pm »

Is that all solid wire, or hardline?

Wouldn't think it would be all that useful if the ports go right into inductors. But, if that's the case, and the wire is solid, then, I would suppose it was for fairly low frequencies (bottom of SW, if not MW or LW), and modest power levels (under a kW?).

Tim

bsalai · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2017, 02:29:42 pm »

It looks like solid, insulated wire, not dressed particularly carefully, so I'd say it's for relatively low frequencies. It is pretty robust looking, so probably for moderate power, but less than a kw as you suggested. The inductors don't look like they are for LW.

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capt bullshot · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2017, 02:44:48 pm »

My guess:

A hybrid would be a circuit to split a Rx path and a Tx path in the same frequency range.
Widest usage was in POTS, there's been a small transformer to split the audio band (talking and listening over a single twisted pair of wires) to microphone and earpiece, to attenuate your own voice (so you don't hear yourself talking).
I could imagine this thing is doing something alike for higher frequencies, especially if there's one of the cores with two windings. The other ones might be for some kind of impedance matching which is particular important for a high Tx/Rx separation hybrid.

AF6LJ · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2017, 11:49:04 pm »

Quote from: bsalai on February 23, 2017, 02:29:42 pm

It looks like solid, insulated wire, not dressed particularly carefully, so I'd say it's for relatively low frequencies. It is pretty robust looking, so probably for moderate power, but less than a kw as you suggested. The inductors don't look like they are for LW.

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In most HF applications the ports would be in phase.
I am assuming all ports were terminated...

And it does make more sense if the "wire" was actually something like .070" hardline.

bsalai · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2017, 12:59:59 am »

Would the hardline explain the small plates at each connector? Possibly the outer conductor is connected to one side and the center conductor passes through and connects to the connector center pin?

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rfeecs · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2017, 01:53:40 am »

I usually call it semi rigid cable.

I was thinking the same thing. Possibly the boards at the connectors are to give a good ground at the center pin. That is, with a ground plane on the back side. The semi rigid outer conductor may be soldered nicely all around to ground on the back side, and the center conductor coming up through a hole to the front, maintaining a nice 50 ohms.

It would be interesting to see what is going on with the other boards and why the complicated little board with the two perpendicular pieces.

If its a hybrid, zero degrees or 180 degrees or 90 degrees, the bandwidth defining spec would probably be isolation between the two ports. Terminate the common port, then put a signal in one port and see what comes out the other. I'm wondering if the frequency band is actually higher than you have looked.

AF6LJ · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2017, 02:05:39 am »

Quote from: rfeecs on February 24, 2017, 01:53:40 am

I usually call it semi rigid cable.

I was thinking the same thing. Possibly the boards at the connectors are to give a good ground at the center pin. That is, with a ground plane on the back side. The semi rigid outer conductor may be soldered nicely all around to ground on the back side, and the center conductor coming up through a hole to the front, maintaining a nice 50 ohms.

It would be interesting to see what is going on with the other boards and why the complicated little board with the two perpendicular pieces.

If its a hybrid, zero degrees or 180 degrees or 90 degrees, the bandwidth defining spec would probably be isolation between the two ports. Terminate the common port, then put a signal in one port and see what comes out the other. I'm wondering if the frequency band is actually higher than you have looked.

Good Call.

bsalai · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2017, 02:18:39 am »

I'll have to make a terminator, but shouldn't be too hard. I'll be back with more data.

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Author Topic: Anzac H-125 hybrid junction (Read 8398 times)

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