Author Topic: Correctly calculating impedance of a biconical antenna and impedance matching  (Read 28655 times)

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Offline cdev

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If you are building an antenna to go outdoors I would simply buy a commercial antenna. There is a company in the UK which makes and sells biconical antennas - they cost around $75 shipped to the US.   Alternatively consider discones as they seem to be much more popular and have structural advantages.

You have an obligation with anything pointy and metallic that's mounted outdoors for it to be safe and physically able to handle wind situations.

Also, wherever you live, you likely have neighbors. Commercial antennas have advantages as far as compatibility with norms of behavior in towns, zoning etc. Suppose if in a few years you want to build a tower or something, you don't want to have alienated your neighbors.

It also likely helps to be a help in emergencies or similar. Keeping a sturdy antenna working through storms is likely much easier if its built to be a survivor.

Certain brands of discones consistently survive "superstorms" with no damage. functionality intact.

Others fall apart on their own, no storms required. If dislodged by wind, one of those rods could easily injure somebody.

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline polemonTopic starter

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Hmm, yeah, I've only constructed directional narrow band antennas to this point.

I was under the impression, that a balun must be precise to its frequency tuning, this doesn't seem to be the case, however.

Calculating the actual impedance of the antenna (the biconical antennas, that is) is still quite difficult in the scheme of things, but given there are wider range baluns, this doesn't seem to be as much of an impact. I've got the basic shape of the antenna down. But I've never made a balun myself, I'd have to research this further. I was under the impression, that one of the cheap CATV baluns found on ebay would be a quick solution, but as you said this isn't exactly the case.

I'll see if I can make an adequate balun for the frequency range I need it to.
 

Online T3sl4co1l

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Hmm, yeah, I've only constructed directional narrow band antennas to this point.

I was under the impression, that a balun must be precise to its frequency tuning, this doesn't seem to be the case, however.

Well, a resonant balun does. :P  If you were using 1/4 wave stubs and whatnot, yeah, those are fairly narrow, like 10 or 20% bandwidth. :)

At these frequencies, a transformer balun is very reasonable.  Keep the wire length short (less than 1/4 wave at the maximum frequency of interest), and use whatever core size and type is required to get the necessary magnetizing impedance (Zmag >> Zo so it doesn't load down the line).  #43 and #61 ferrites, and several powdered iron mixes, are quite suitable core materials.

Quote
Calculating the actual impedance of the antenna (the biconical antennas, that is) is still quite difficult in the scheme of things, but given there are wider range baluns, this doesn't seem to be as much of an impact.

Also, since the bandwidth is wide, it's not that you're going to get screwed with reactance from a mismatch: the antenna is more or less resistive in its passband, whatever that resistance happens to be.  If you have 2:1 VSWR, so what, you'll have it over the whole band, so it's just insertion loss.  I mean, YES, once it goes up a length of cable, you get dips due to exactly that -- standing waves!  But if you can sweep the antenna, this should be obvious, and you can add a little breakout connector to test different resistors in series or parallel with the antenna, to see how far off it is.  Then wind a transformer for that match, and you'll have, who knows, maybe 1.3:1 VSWR instead, what better could you ask for? :)

Quote
I've got the basic shape of the antenna down. But I've never made a balun myself, I'd have to research this further. I was under the impression, that one of the cheap CATV baluns found on ebay would be a quick solution, but as you said this isn't exactly the case.

I'll see if I can make an adequate balun for the frequency range I need it to.

The balun I pictured above should be pretty obvious, just from the picture; it's the same as the 1:4 Guanella TLT design also pictured above.  You don't need anything fancier than that. :)  Well, give or take if you need a super low VSWR and an oddball ratio, that is.

Tim
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Offline cdev

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You can use an inexpensive 4:1 75 ohm to 300 ohm balun. That's ideal. They are made for VHF/UHF. The issues I brought up aren't relevant until you are trying to receive frequencies in the GHz range. You should be fine at 162 MHz (and for quite a bit above that).

I just had to redo mine because its also supporting the weight of the bottom half of the antenna.

If you are using your antenna on a non-SDR, non computer-based receiver, or probably also witha Raspberry pi-connected one, (which is a lo smaller) you probably would not have all those problems with computer noise on the feedline and might not even need a balun, or could simply use a couple of common mode chokes clipped around the feedline (or coil your coax tightly around some form at least a half dozen or more times to create some inductance to block common mode junk) and get an adequate cleanup.
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Offline dazz1

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Hi
I found this image :
http://www.gtemcell.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC02335.jpg
of a matching network. 
I am guessing that there is some feature hidden under the heat shrink that is key to making this work.
Just curious to know how this might work.
Dazz

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Online T3sl4co1l

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Looks like a normal 2:1 balun. Ground wire seems like a red herring. Connections should be just soldered, no hidden components.  Black thing ought to be ferrite, but it's strange that it's not a full (magnetic) circuit, so it may have poor balance at low frequency.

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Offline dazz1

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Hi
I don't see a balun.  The coil former seems to be too large to be ferrite so I think the coils are mostly air-cored.   I see 2 co-axial coils of coax which indicates these are for common mode rejection.  I suspect there is a small ferrite bead under the shrink-wrap.  I don't know what the earth is/is not connected to.  It seems to be the only point the coax is earthed to the enclosure.  It appears that both coax cables are connected directly to the antenna feed point. 
Dazz

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Offline dazz1

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Hi
I assumed that the signal is carried by the coax centre conductor.  If so, the coils might block common mode noise on the outside of the shield.  If the signal is carried by the coax shield, then this might be a balun. If so, I am not familiar with this topology.

Dazz
Dazz

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Online T3sl4co1l

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The first joint may have the coax in anti-parallel.  The second joint has the coax in series, I think.

It wouldn't be correct to say that the signal is carried wholly one way or the other.  There will be unbalanced currents; how much depends on the winding, and core (if any).

Tim
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Offline dazz1

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Hi
I have got to the point of making my biconic antenna that I need to design a balun. 
I was planning on using a Robert balun but when I looked in depth, the Roberts balun was designed for thin dipoles, not a wide band biconic.

I found this website that simulates a biconic antenna  https://au.mathworks.com/help/antenna/ug/vhf-uhf-biconical-antenna-for-testing-applications.html#VHFUHFBiconicalAntennaForTestingApplicationsExample-8.  The dimensions are very close to my actual antenna.  I have 6 not 12 elements.    The plots of impedance and return loss are likely to be very similar to my antenna.

The impedance plot shows reactance is negative (capacitive) below about 700MHz, and positive (inductive) above about 800MHz.  So I need to find a balun that will match.

Dazz

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Offline dazz1

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Hi
I have been doing some research on research of wide band baluns for biconic antenna.  For such a common antenna you would think there is plenty of good practical references out there.  What I am finding is that there is little published info to guide a diy build. 
I have found a reference that indicate a current balun is more balanced than a voltage balun.  One antenna maker uses a modified Marchand balun but a Guanella balun could be a better choice.

My antenna will only be used to receive, not to Tx, so I don't have to worry about current saturation and power limits. 

The Tchebycheff tapered balun transformer would have the bandwidth but making and testing one would be a challenge.    I think I would need to make a length of large diameter rigid coax.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2023, 10:46:22 am by dazz1 »
Dazz

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Offline dazz1

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The problem I have hit with making/buying a suitable wide band balun is the tyranny of distance. The cost of buying a part here is swamped by the cost of shipping across the planet.  Buying a couple of ferrite beads or ready-made baluns is expensive and economy shipping takes ages to get things here.

I tore apart the Gigabit ethernet connector of a dead motherboard to repurpose the ferrite toroid cores.    I figure if they are good enough for Gigabyte data, they might be OK for low level RF to 300MHz or so.  Now I just need to find some enamel wire the correct size.
 
Dazz

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Offline dazz1

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Here are the Ethernet ferrites that I hope to repurpose for the biconic antenna.

They are buried within conformal coating, so that will have to come off.
Dazz

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Offline dazz1

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Hi
I decided to try and figure out how the baluns for Ethernet were wired to see if I could learn anything applicable to antenna applications.  I understand why baluns are needed, but I have not played around with them before.  Ethernet drives balanced pairs which are similar to driving a dipole.    Ethernet needs galvanic isolation, but antenna don't.   I will never be using the biconic antenna for susceptance testing, so power limits of small toroids are not a factor. 

I removed most of the conformal coating from one of the Ethernet toroid pairs to be able to figure out how they were wound as shown in the attached diagram.  These coils are small.  I was working with a microscope to figure out how they are connected.

I think toroid A is probably driven by a differential balanced pair of line drivers.  Toroid A looks like it works as a choke to eliminate common mode RF.  If so, I think the dots are wrong.

Toroid B appears to be a transformer and balun with a single coil driving two balanced pairs.    All 4 wires are twisted together so the turns ratio between any of them is 1.

If the two coils on A are push/pull driven, and they drive 2 coils on B, I think the impedance transformation is also 1 : 1.   

The toroids appear to be different materials. 

Testing balun configs is going to be a challenge.  I will need to make a test rig to get consistent results.








Dazz

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Online T3sl4co1l

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Usually B is driven, push-pull, since the stub length is shorter that way.  Indeed it's 1:1, and the PHY (transceiver device) is 50+50 ohms output (usually a current-sinking push-pull amplifier into termination resistors), and the line is 100 ohm differential.

CMRR specs are rather modest, actually, but the CMC is an important part of achieving that, and it's so rated up to 100MHz.

Tim
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Offline dazz1

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Usually B is driven, push-pull, since the stub length is shorter that way. 

Tim

The pcb traces to A go to the connector pins.  So it appears that B is the driven end.

Attached is my proposed method of testing the balun separate from the antenna.

I'd like to attach an instrument to the output load  side of the balun, but I don't have a balanced to unbal test load. I probably need a balun to do that.   |O
Dazz

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Offline Solder_Junkie

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I am surprised there isn’t a mention of using antenna modelling software on this thread. The hugely capable EZNEC Pro is now offered for free by the author.

https://www.eznec.com/

SJ
 

Offline dazz1

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I am surprised there isn’t a mention of using antenna modelling software on this thread. The hugely capable EZNEC Pro is now offered for free by the author.

https://www.eznec.com/

SJ

I first used NEC back in the 1980s including a version that implemented a genetic algorithm some time in the 1990s to evolve an antenna design over generations.   
I wasn't aware of ezNEC front end but I haven't looked for it. I have added the link to my bookmarks for future reference.
I haven't simulated an antenna because I found enough practical design info to arrive at a design the looks like the others. 

My immediate problem is producing a wideband balun for a known antenna.  To the best of my knowledge, there is no simulation software useful for balun design, especially when I don't know the properties of the ferrite material I have repurposed.
There is surprisingly little applicable published research on the topic.  There is lots of cook-book type solutions, but not a lot in the way of actual this is the design process.
For a simple wideband balun on a toroid, I can choose the:
  • type (eg. Marchard, Guanella etc
  • twists per cm
  • turns around the toroid

If I use a coax based design, the physical dimensions increase the risk of self resonance within the antenna bandwidth.
If I use a tiny toroid, I can't use coax and power throughput is limited.

The number of combinations to test even a few options starts looking exponential very quickly.
Open to suggestions.


Dazz

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Online T3sl4co1l

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Well, it's not very fancy.  The core presents some shunt impedance depending on turns and its permeability, and the windings (typically arranged as transmission lines) determine the HF cutoff.  Which, a Guanella has bandwidth limited by construction (TL cross-section, cross-talk, and how they're interconnected), while a Ruthroff is limited by turn length, and more conventional transformer designs are further limited by uncontrolled impedances, CM coupling, and layer effects (when applicable).

So, you need enough inductance to get the LF cutoff, enough impedance to have acceptable power dissipation or insertion loss (and a bit of mismatch), and reasonable windings for the impedances desired.  Which understandably gets difficult when the impedance is very low (it's a lot of work to just make a low-Z TL at all), and very difficult when high (imagine how much free space you need around 600-ohm twin lead, now make a transformer out of it!).

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Offline dazz1

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I still have the problem of measuring the performance of the balun.  I don't have a VNA, but even if I did, I would still need an adapter/sensor between the DUT balun and the instrument.


Just wondering about modifying a cheap SWR bridge to form a balanced input on one port.  That would allow me to insert the modified bridge between the balun and the antenna, like a super balun.   

I haven't thought about this too much so there is probably good reasons for not doing it.  It would allow a balun DUT to be placed between an RF sig-gen and the super balun used as a sensor.
Dazz

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Online T3sl4co1l

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How about making a DM+CM conversion box, with exceptional construction (small transformers with shields?), and characterizing that in the normal mode: drive one CM/DM port, terminate all others, measure amplitude; swap output port/terminator, measure opposite phase amplitude; etc.  Bonus points for measuring phase as well and verifying phase match (0° CM, 180° DM, +/- some margin).

Typically you use 1:1 baluns for such a beast, and padding resistors to make up the difference (CM goes into 25 ohm, DM goes into 100).

Ref: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-dm-cm-seperator-for-emc-lisn-mate/

Tim
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Offline dazz1

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...
Ref: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-dm-cm-seperator-for-emc-lisn-mate/

Tim

I like that. 

There is a lot to digest on the linked thread, plus the links within the thread.   I will need to take some time to soak it all in before I decided what to do. 
Adding phase would be a challenge but a really useful feature.  Imbalance (phase error) is a significant error if present in a biconic antenna. 



Dazz

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Offline nctnico

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Hi
I found this image :
http://www.gtemcell.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DSC02335.jpg
of a matching network. 
I am guessing that there is some feature hidden under the heat shrink that is key to making this work.
Just curious to know how this might work.
This looks like a wideband coaxial transformer. Unfortunately it seems a lot of useful information is hidden behind paywalls. This looks like an interesting paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263635575_Wideband_Impedance_Transformer_Using_a_Coaxial_Cable

This looks interesting though and much like the picture: https://pa0fri.home.xs4all.nl/Ant/Balun/balun%20eng.htm

IMHO it is not going to help using random ferrite cores and just try stuff without doing some reading first.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2023, 11:14:41 am by nctnico »
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Offline dazz1

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This looks like a wideband coaxial transformer. Unfortunately it seems a lot of useful information is hidden behind paywalls.
...

IMHO it is not going to help using random ferrite cores and just try stuff without doing some reading first.

Maybe good info hidden behind expensive paywalls.  Cost does not equal quality.   I have in the past handed over (employer) money to get rubbish in return. 

I have done a lot of reading.  My balun folder is shown below.  These are the files I have kept and not all I have read.

The most promising paper is attached.  A lot of the modern stuff is planar super duper high frequency stuff that is not relevant.  The really good info is closely held by manufacturers. 

I agree that experimenting with unknown cores is less than ideal but if I order a $0.01 component, I pay about $USD15 shipping and wait for weeks.    At least with the Ethernet cores, I know they have been selected with a similar application, power and frequency range.    They are not just entirely random choices.  I did spend some time thinking about what I could repurpose.

Dazz

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Online T3sl4co1l

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Haha, that paper is just dripping with inexperience; but it's exactly what I would expect given its origin: senior design project, undergrad level.  You pick a topic, you're barely told anything about it, and told to get to work solving it!

The frequency range is entirely unspecified, and neither analysis not discussion of results is present.  I suspect their results are equivalent to a helical transmission line through air -- those core memory cores (wow, blast from the past!) are specifically made with substantial hysteresis to yield the logic function necessary.  Meaning they have very low initial permeability.  Similar results I bet would've been had on an air core.  GHz is also above the range where ferrite does much; they could've just looped transmission line through the air with similar results.  Likewise, if they had considered which frequency range to prioritize, they could've chosen a more appropriate Microcircuits part; or at least tested several and seen how they respond, not just one and given up on the idea!  (Granted, you don't get any budget either, so, buying from Microcircuits is rather hard to justify.)

Even basic stuff, like the permeability test fixture, wasn't explored, or justified.  Either it works or it doesn't; test a range of parts and compare results to the datasheet.  Is it a systematic error or just not representative at all?  How could it be changed to be more representative?  How do professionals do it?  (Well, obviously they just buy the fixture: https://www.keysight.com/us/en/product/16454A/magnetic-material-test-fixture.html  But, one might use that as a jumping-off point for appnotes and papers, and develop an understanding of how it's done.)

(I say this, having done a senior design project myself, looking back on it.  So, part hindsight, but also anyone with experience can, I think, identify these traits and shortcomings of the paper.)

But I get the similarity; you're in a similar position, I suppose.  Beware that you're balancing the familiar feeling of the search for knowledge, against the certainty of knowledge attained (but knowledge in the abstract, that is often ever so hard to communicate to those outside of that state of knowledge).  That is, you identify with the author's inexperience, but you may not have much to learn from the author, or with the correct conclusions.  (These are not peer-reviewed, remember; at best they're graded by a professor!)  Conversely, it's difficult learning from direct sources, because you lack the stepping-stones of knowledge that they followed to attain that knowledge (or, even if available, those stepping-stones just don't produce the same understanding for you).

As for basic parts availability -- RS operates in .au, don't they?  Well, maybe their shipping or minimum order is still >= $15, I don't know, but surely something domestic couple-days delivery is available.  Offhand I see a half-dozen electronics suppliers that target .au (not necessarily are in .au, like Digikey), though I don't know what of them are professional/wholesale versus individuals/one-offs.  And if so, which ones have any selection of ferrite beads.  But it seems like there ought to be something.

As for salvage: pulse transformers, common mode chokes, and EMI cores (including beads on cables) are usable here.  CMCs and EMI cores kind of less so, because they tend to have either low-frequency priority (CMCs are generally more about getting high impedance for SMPS fundamental -- 100s kHz), or damping (EMI cores are lossy in the 10s to 100s MHz, and may not have all that much impedance or inductance overall for transformer purposes).  But given more size, or number of turns, that's still doable.

Power cores (ferrite) are usable as well, but watch out for air gaps.  Small gaps can be sanded down flat with a lapping plate (e.g. stick a sheet of SiC sandpaper to a sheet of glass or other flat surface, and grind with that; or if you happen to have a diamond sharpening stone, those are very nice), but large gaps, you'll end up running out of space around the bobbin, unless you want to build your own rather than salvage the one it came with.  (Or you broke it in the process of salvage...)

Ferrite cores can be unglued by heating.  Baking to ~200C is a good idea, softens the varnish.  If you break the core, it can still be superglued back together (but beware the pieces might not fit exactly anymore, adding air gap; lapping the faces flat again helps maximize effective permeability).

Powder cores (usually bicolor toroids, but also blue or black, or other colors) have low mu and cutoff frequency, so generally aren't usable for pulse transformer duty.

Ethernet transformers are indeed in the pulse/CMC/EMI category so are fine here; as long as you don't need more winding area or flux capacity, heh.

Tim
« Last Edit: July 25, 2023, 06:23:11 pm by T3sl4co1l »
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