Making Saltwater Burn 13.567 MHz 200W

[Michael_P]

Hallo,

did someone study this invention?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/watburn-this-invention-will-change-the-world#/




"Conclusions
It has been confirmed that polarised RF frequency
radiation at 13.56 MHz causes NaCl solutions in water,
with concentrations from 1 to over 30%, to be
measurably changed in structure, and to dissociate into
hydrogen and oxygen near room temperature. The flame
is a burning reaction, probably of an intimate mixture of
hydrogen oxygen and the ambient air. Most of the Na
present in the solution, concentrates progressively – as
measured – as the water is dissociated and burned."

[jjoonathan]

A method for quick RF electrolysis could be useful. Perhaps it requires smaller electrodes, fewer electrode replacements, or less overvoltage (inefficiency) than DC electrolysis. Such a finding would have very real commercial implications, assuming it isn't common practice in commercial installations already, though if it is, I haven't heard.

Unfortunately, he also claims to have found free energy:

>  The flame generated by the device is useful both for heating various substances  and as a source of clean energy, capable to substitute all types of fossil fuels

Turning H2O into H2 and O2 is the reverse reaction of burning H2 and O2 into H2O. If this roundtrip is done with perfect efficiency, the device will not consume any energy, but it will also not produce any energy. In practice, it would be extremely difficult to capture 100% of the heat and light emitted by the flame, so the device will merely consume energy. It's useless as a free energy device.

> causes NaCl solutions in water, with concentrations from 1 to over 30%, to be measurably changed in structure

Null hypothesis: the "changes in structure" are the exact same you would measure in any other NaCl solution with increasing concentration. At the very least there should be a control.

The PDF paper, which is the only peer-reviewed part of this whole mess, makes no claims of free energy and fails to investigate the obvious null hypothesis for their observed effects.

Absurd perpetual motion claims and diversionary "changes in structure" nonsense make me doubt this guy has the chops or inclination to pursue commercial applications of RF electrolysis, even if his findings are real and have commercial applicability in that direction. Verdict: 

[xygor]

Sounds like a new twist on the old Brown's Gas Generator used by welders, which is a perfectly legitimate application, but there's no free lunch.  Just the convenience of generating welding gas on-site.

For some unknown (to me) reason, these attract a bunch of interest by fringe science nuts.

[abraxa]

So, uh, where does the chlorine go? Is there going to be HCL forming and attacking the surfaces of whatever container the flame is contained in? Doesn't sound so trivial to me.

[Marco]

Plasma electrolysis has a fair few papers, but all from the cold fusion crowd so take with a mountain of salt.

[Rerouter]

I am quite suspect on that frequency. Being the exact same as RFID cards,

Equally my own experiments in the past showed that the resonant dip for water varied heavily with salinity and temperature. With the first dip in impedance around 720-990Khz. Then another much strong one around 22-31MHz,

Now in my case i was only dealing with low energies. However the numbers are not adding up for me.

[xygor]

I am quite suspect on that frequency. Being the exact same as RFID cards,

Equally my own experiments in the past showed that the resonant dip for water varied heavily with salinity and temperature. With the first dip in impedance around 720-990Khz. Then another much strong one around 22-31MHz,

Now in my case i was only dealing with low energies. However the numbers are not adding up for me.

I guess they're keeping it in the ISM band to make for easier regulatory approval.

[borjam]

Radiation? I have a HF loop antenna _and_ a marine aquarium in the same room. When I transmit on JT modes (30 - 40 W) I have observed no effects on the aquarium except for the pH probe measuring a very low pH.

When I operate I do it on the 7 MHz, 10 MHz and 14 MHz bands.

[CJay]

Radiation? I have a HF loop antenna _and_ a marine aquarium in the same room. When I transmit on JT modes (30 - 40 W) I have observed no effects on the aquarium except for the pH probe measuring a very low pH.

When I operate I do it on the 7 MHz, 10 MHz and 14 MHz bands.

However a friend of mine did have a microwave oven which caused the fish in the aquarium on the shelf above it to go absolutely nuts.

[borjam]

Radiation? I have a HF loop antenna _and_ a marine aquarium in the same room. When I transmit on JT modes (30 - 40 W) I have observed no effects on the aquarium except for the pH probe measuring a very low pH.

When I operate I do it on the 7 MHz, 10 MHz and 14 MHz bands.

However a friend of mine did have a microwave oven which caused the fish in the aquarium on the shelf above it to go absolutely nuts.

Vibrations from the motor and fan? Mine get nuts if I slam a door.

[Gyro]

Radiation? I have a HF loop antenna _and_ a marine aquarium in the same room. When I transmit on JT modes (30 - 40 W) I have observed no effects on the aquarium except for the pH probe measuring a very low pH.

When I operate I do it on the 7 MHz, 10 MHz and 14 MHz bands.

However a friend of mine did have a microwave oven which caused the fish in the aquarium on the shelf above it to go absolutely nuts.

Rather akin to leaning over the fence of a field of sheep and shouting 'Mint Sauce'. 

[Yansi]

My bullshit-o-meter is going crazy.

 

[borjam]

My bullshit-o-meter is going crazy.

 

Wrap it in tin foil. That's a proof of the hazard of radio waves. If they can mess with a sturdy electronic device like that, imagine what they do to your delicate, biological nervous system and whatnot.

[CJay]

Radiation? I have a HF loop antenna _and_ a marine aquarium in the same room. When I transmit on JT modes (30 - 40 W) I have observed no effects on the aquarium except for the pH probe measuring a very low pH.

When I operate I do it on the 7 MHz, 10 MHz and 14 MHz bands.

However a friend of mine did have a microwave oven which caused the fish in the aquarium on the shelf above it to go absolutely nuts.

Vibrations from the motor and fan? Mine get nuts if I slam a door.

No, we *think* magnetic field but didn't have much way to prove it, they stopped going nuts when we moved the microwave a foot or so away and didn't react at all when he got an inverter type oven.

[borjam]

No, we *think* magnetic field but didn't have much way to prove it, they stopped going nuts when we moved the microwave a foot or so away and didn't react at all when he got an inverter type oven.

Aha, you mean magnetic field from a transformer Whenever you mention "microwave" reactions are similar to "nuclear", you know.

[CJay]

No, we *think* magnetic field but didn't have much way to prove it, they stopped going nuts when we moved the microwave a foot or so away and didn't react at all when he got an inverter type oven.

Aha, you mean magnetic field from a transformer Whenever you mention "microwave" reactions are similar to "nuclear", you know.

Exactly that, there was a heavy transformer in the old oven and we reckoned it was the field from that which affected the fish, there was a 'thump' every time the magnetron powered on so there was quite some current flowing.

His girlfriend at the time was convinced the fish were being cooked and got very upset, the fish however lived for a good long time and showed no signs of harm.

[borjam]

Exactly that, there was a heavy transformer in the old oven and we reckoned it was the field from that which affected the fish, there was a 'thump' every time the magnetron powered on so there was quite some current flowing.

His girlfriend at the time was convinced the fish were being cooked and got very upset, the fish however lived for a good long time and showed no signs of harm.

Probably it stimulated their lateral line similarly to someone tickling you and/or making strong noises.