Whatever Happened to Ham Radio?

[janoc]

It's extremely unlikely that, for example, a ship in distress calls on a ham frequency. It would be possible if there was a ham onboard maybe. And anyway the safest bet would be to call on the officialy monitored frequencies. Maritime operators are not even used to think in frequency terms, they see their bands as a number of numbered channels.

Well, theoretically it could happen if a maritime band in one part of the world overlaps a HAM band in another - not all bands are allocated the same around the world - and there are favorable propagation conditions (so pretty much possible only on HF).

On the other hand, emergency frequencies are almost always towards the middle of the band, not at the edges where these overlaps could happen. So this would be an exceedingly rare occurrence.

So, in short. It's illegal to use a ham transceiver onboard a ship to communicate on the maritime mobile frequencies.

Just for completeness -  it is not illegal to carry and use a ham transceiver onboard of a ship to communicate on the ham bands (with the permission of the vessel owner and properly licensed, of course).

So, it is conceivable that an emergency call could come through if e.g. the primary radio is inoperative. It used to be more common in the past, though - various marine & land expeditions carried HF ham stations for communication like this (e.g. Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-Tiki in 1947). However, today they are more likely to just use a satellite phone instead of relying on the flaky HF radio ...

[brainwash]

Actually English is mandatory for the aviation exam, it is the official ICAO communication language. If you don't have the aviation English exam, you will not be able to fly abroad and to the larger airports where the majority of the communication is in English. May not be an issue for ultralight pilots or similar that stay around their home club, but most pilots take the English exam anyway.

If for nothing else then for your own safety - that big 747 on approach flown by a foreign crew may not understand from your German/French/.../etc chat with the controller that you are on a conflicting trajectory, so they will have no spatial awareness of you unless the controller tells them where you are (few small planes carry TCAS-capable equipment). Which they should, but the controllers are only people too and can forget, be overloaded or just miss something, especially a small plane. This has led to some near misses and even accidents in the past and is the primary reason why English is mandatory today as the communication language in aviation.

I am pretty sure that one can fly to a German general aviation airport without having the exam in German language, only with English. Otherwise no foreign pilot would have ever been able to fly to Germany outside of the big airports.

Here is the list of what you will have to learn/obtain for a German private pilot license:
http://www.aerotours.de/en/lapla-leichtflugzeugpilot-699.html

And actually Wikipedia has a good summary of what you need for the radiotelephony license:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprechfunkzeugnis_(Luftfahrt)#BZF_I

For a private pilot license you need at least the BZF1 or 2. The testing is done in German but there is a part where the candidate must demonstrate English communication capability, unless doing only BZF2 exam (German only, but then not allowed to fly outside of Germany).

Then to actually be able to communicate in the given language the candidate needs also a separate language proficiency certificate (ICAO-4 level or higher).

The list also shows that there is no HAM license prerequisite for the aviation radiotelephony certificate.

I didn't search for the marine radio requirements but they are most likely similar.

Yes, basic English literacy is part of both the general ham exam and the aviation exam. However, having the [light VFR pilot] exam in German confers some extra rights.
Regarding airports, I've been told that there are significantly more airports that you can land on with the specific license compared to the English one one. There is a distinction between airports (117 of them in Germany) and aerodromes (550). So that's where my terminology was wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodrome
A list is here in German language https://www.ulforum.de/flugplatz and seems to have quite a few more places than http://aerodromes.eu/aerodromes.php?code=ED . Again, just writing what I've heard and summarily researched as I was contemplating on getting a license myself, in English, but was told about the landing restriction.


You are right about the RR license (it was in your edited answer) and BZV2. The Wiki page specifically says the pilot is only allowed communication in bands G and E. So my friends said 'ham' and I automatically assumed the usual radio amateur exam, not knowing there is quite a difference.

[Teledog]

Back to the original topic....

Got my basic, then advanced licence wayy back when (grandfathered HF)
Was kinda fun chatting through repeaters while in the backcountry (prior to cell coverage).

With the internet now..there's HD video chat..who needs a key ..q codes..or...

The local ham repeaters are always crowded with IRLP from other countries..it's just plain annoying....don't even turn the rigs on anymore...actually most are archived in the attic.

Have learned a lot from the community though ..and the equipment  ie:spectrum analyzers, scopes, power meters, etc..etc..

Don't mean to be a downer..it is fun (so was Chicken Band radio!)..have fun!..it's a great learning experience..like machine shop class.. with electricity! ;-)

[janoc]

Yes, basic English literacy is part of both the general ham exam and the aviation exam. However, having the [light VFR pilot] exam in German confers some extra rights.
Regarding airports, I've been told that there are significantly more airports that you can land on with the specific license compared to the English one one. There is a distinction between airports (117 of them in Germany) and aerodromes (550). So that's where my terminology was wrong.

The exam is always in German, from what I can see. However, it is clearly said that the language of the exam has no bearing on the languages you are allowed to communicate in  on the air - for that you must obtain the corresponding language proficiency certificate in addition to the radiotelephony certificate.

I believe the issue between "airports" and "aerodromes" is more about that the former can accept even international traffic, the latter not necessarily and little to do with whether you speak English or German. If  you look in that list, you will see that many don't even have an ICAO code assigned. Usually these are small strips used by factories, aeroclubs, crop dusters, etc. The "airport" list contains only those which have the code and thus are larger fields.

If you have BZF1, you can go anywhere, because you are allowed to use both English & German (modulo those language proficiency exams). If you have BZF2, you can go only to German speaking places. There is also BZF-E that is English only, but I believe that one is only for special cases. And then commercial transport pilots have to do first one of the BZF certificates and then the AZF one.

[medical-nerd]

Hiya

There is another reason contributing to the reduction in ham radio. An introduction to shortwave radio was frequently through listening to national stations from 'far off' or 'exotic' lands, this then led to listening to ham operators by adapting an existing receiver or buying one with a BFO.
The reduction in shortwave broadcast stations (now streamed on the internet) means that it is only us 'greybeards' with existing receivers that forlornly look through the shortwave bands missing those wonderful days.

Cheers

[brainwash]

The exam is always in German, from what I can see. However, it is clearly said that the language of the exam has no bearing on the languages you are allowed to communicate in  on the air - for that you must obtain the corresponding language proficiency certificate in addition to the radiotelephony certificate.

I believe the issue between "airports" and "aerodromes" is more about that the former can accept even international traffic, the latter not necessarily and little to do with whether you speak English or German. If  you look in that list, you will see that many don't even have an ICAO code assigned. Usually these are small strips used by factories, aeroclubs, crop dusters, etc. The "airport" list contains only those which have the code and thus are larger fields.

If you have BZF1, you can go anywhere, because you are allowed to use both English & German (modulo those language proficiency exams). If you have BZF2, you can go only to German speaking places. There is also BZF-E that is English only, but I believe that one is only for special cases. And then commercial transport pilots have to do first one of the BZF certificates and then the AZF one.

Just talked to the pilot guy, he has a BZF-1, the exam was both in English in German. He's not sure about whether there's an English-only exam (so there probably isn't), but there is the German-only. So you are right on all points.
The radio license allows him to communicate only over airbands. I assume the points above are valid for most countries.
I think I've beaten this horse to death, I'll stop now. 

[borjam]

There is another reason contributing to the reduction in ham radio. An introduction to shortwave radio was frequently through listening to national stations from 'far off' or 'exotic' lands, this then led to listening to ham operators by adapting an existing receiver or buying one with a BFO.
The reduction in shortwave broadcast stations (now streamed on the internet) means that it is only us 'greybeards' with existing receivers that forlornly look through the shortwave bands missing those wonderful days.

Yes, that's true!

Maybe we should try to revive number stations!

[janoc]

Hiya

There is another reason contributing to the reduction in ham radio. An introduction to shortwave radio was frequently through listening to national stations from 'far off' or 'exotic' lands, this then led to listening to ham operators by adapting an existing receiver or buying one with a BFO.
The reduction in shortwave broadcast stations (now streamed on the internet) means that it is only us 'greybeards' with existing receivers that forlornly look through the shortwave bands missing those wonderful days.

Cheers

Oh there is plenty of shortwave broadcast going on still. Here in France I can hear a lot of Arabic speaking stations, some Spanish, even Mandarin. BBC and Deutsche Welle are still on as well. It can be quite surprising when you suddenly get a jingle of Radio Beijing or some televangelist from the US out of the mess of wires on your bench.

[cdev]

With some very simple modifications (pins 4 and 5 on the RTL2832 chip are an unused differential "Q" input that just needs some low pass filtration) a $10 RTLSDR USB dongle can receive HF fairly well, and its an SDR.

If you are a really good solderer, its probably easy. Basically the additional parts needed are a toroid core and a tiny bit of wire and some capacitors. You could also use pogo pins to make the connection.

You still need an antenna. A Chinese ham (BA7SBA) has been selling a kit for several years that incorporates a dongle and all the parts needed to do this really well, using a larger PCB with a square hole in it where you nest the dongle. I have one and also have the schematic, its a good design that maintains ESD protection for the input. You can DIY.

You really cant argue with a matchbox sized radio that can receive from below the AM broadcast band to over 1700 MHz. for $30.

Direct sampling radios are really good for tracking down ESD.

[cdev]

I was just tuning around a few days ago and I heard the Cuban number station with the female voice. It was just booming in, really strong.

This picture is from a few years ago, different radio and software.

This is a shot of one of the weird digital data bursts they include with it. Who says the shortwave bands arent interesting. They totally are.

Also, there is an American equivalent. How does it go.. "Skyking, Skyking, do not answer"...  then, numbers  numbers..

very low tech...  I try to record things when the audio quality is particularly good.. the airwaves really have a lot of interesting, sometimes really bizarre sounds.

Sometimes I have heard shortwave broadcasts that have an echo. Cant help but wonder whether that phenomena is natural (reception of the same signal via two separate paths?) or just two separate transmitters broadcasting the same thing on the same frequency slightly out of sync.


Quote from: borjam on Yesterday at 06:26:22

Maybe we should try to revive number stations!

[janoc]

If you are a really good solderer, its probably easy. Basically the additional parts needed are a toroid core and a tiny bit of wire and some capacitors. You could also use pogo pins to make the connection.

It is probably easier to buy the device pre-modded. There are plenty of such on eBay and elsewhere. It is certainly better than trying to get some pogo pins stick to the microscopic traces/pins (never mind the parasitics introduced by that).

An even better option is to purchase (or build) an upconverter - about $20 will get you a better performing device (the modded Realtek dongle is quite deaf on HF).

[cdev]

It's not that bad, actually. and there are fewer birdies than when using an upconverter, at least for me. 

However, I now use a soft-rock type receiver for HF and its MUCH much better.

No comparison.


Quote from: janoc on 2017-08-26, 08:54:52>Quote from: cdev on 2017-08-22, 21:50:36

If you are a

really good solderer, its probably easy. Basically the additional parts needed are a toroid core and a tiny bit of wire and some capacitors. You could also use pogo pins to make the connection.

It is probably easier to buy the device pre-modded. There are plenty of such on eBay and elsewhere. It is certainly better than trying to get some pogo pins stick to the microscopic traces/pins (never mind the parasitics introduced by that).

An even better option is to purchase (or build) an upconverter - about $20 will get you a better performing device (the modded Realtek dongle is quite deaf on HF).

[janoc]

It's not that bad, actually. and there are fewer birdies than when using an upconverter, at least for me. 

However, I now use a soft-rock type receiver for HF and its MUCH much better.

No comparison.

I have both the dongle+upconverter and a 40m SoftRock with the Si570 VFO and each is good for something else.

For me the dongle also seems to be more sensitive than the SoftRock (which is really really basic), but I have only an indoor magnetic loop as an antenna. If you have a proper antenna, the Softrock could well be better. Also not all the dongles are made equal.

[AF6LJ]

It's not that bad, actually. and there are fewer birdies than when using an upconverter, at least for me. 

However, I now use a soft-rock type receiver for HF and its MUCH much better.

No comparison.

I have both the dongle+upconverter and a 40m SoftRock with the Si570 VFO and each is good for something else.

For me the dongle also seems to be more sensitive than the SoftRock (which is really really basic), but I have only an indoor magnetic loop as an antenna. If you have a proper antenna, the Softrock could well be better. Also not all the dongles are made equal.

I have a Softrock receiver and it works reasonably well, its performance is largely dependent on your sound subsystem in your computer. To a point it's only as good as your computer, after that the minimum detectable signal is limited to just under a  microvolt.
It is fun to play with.
I'll stick to my Boat Anchors.

[frozenfrogz]

Hello everyone

I am looking forward to meeting up with a local HAM radio group of the HF department at RWTH university here in Aachen tomorrow. I already looked at the topics I need to learn to take the "Klasse E" (CEPT-Novice) and "Klasse A" (CEPT-License) exam and will also be taking a course for SRC + UBI (short range certificate + inland VHF marine radio). The latter is not really related to the HAM radio license, but since I lately acquired an official license for recreational/sport boats, the marine radio license will come in handy in the future.

Since I need to travel quite some distance to take the HAM radio exam, I am thinking about skipping "Klasse E" and taking the full "big" exam instead.
I will have to work a little on that though

[Yansi]

Well, I am also interested in getting licensed, but as my interest is more in the higher bands, the novice license for 2m and 70cm only is really not in my interest either. I'd recommend you going straight for the full. I'd do the same.

[gonzo_the_great]

Appologise if these are huge generalisations, but it's a reasonably accurate picture, at least in the UK...

The people you hear talking on air, tend to be those who are mostly interested in AR as a way to comunicate with people. They tend not to be too interested in building kit.
Those who build stuff, are usually too busy to spend time on air.
So listening to AR stations only shows you one side of the hobby.

There are lots of interesting technical things going on, which you are not going to see through the HF/VHF/UHF shop window.
A few that I am involved with, which may be more interest for those with a technical bent:

Amateur satellite: Communicating through them, or even getting directly involved in designing and building them.
Microwave : Building kit for work above 1GHz.
Television : There is a well established group using analogue PAL (in the UK) to transmit video. And more recently moving into the digital TV world using DVB.

And Just these three subject areas have big overlaps. For example, there is a geostationary satellite transpoonder due to launch. This will be capable of carrying wide bandwidth AR signals. So transmitting digital TV at 2.4GHz is going to be a project. That is all three of the above!

[xrunner]

Using the relatively new digital mode FT8 tonight. Just worked two DX stations S58N Slovenia and 9Y4DG Trinidad & Tobago on 30m. 

[AF6LJ]

Good deal, I need to read up on FT8 and see what it's all about.

[janoc]

Well, I am also interested in getting licensed, but as my interest is more in the higher bands, the novice license for 2m and 70cm only is really not in my interest either. I'd recommend you going straight for the full. I'd do the same.

You don't have a novice license with privileges for everything from 2m up? Usually the HF (and modulation type/power) is restricted, not VHF/UHF bands.

[AF6LJ]

Okay, let me be blunt. The reason I don't have my ham ticket is because I don't drive.

 Would it be too weird to ask local hams for a ride getting to the exam so I can take the frigging test. Ive been wanting to do this since I was a little kid.

If I do do that, how should I put it so it looks less pathetic?  You see, ever since I was 18, I made it a point to live in places where there was good public transport. But I no longer do. My SO drives, but she is busy and frankly, she is not so excited about anything that will lead to my acquiring more "junk". Also, I could be there a while, as if I can pass the first test I want to keep taking the others until I fail. I think I might do well. I don't want to be nervous about imposing on her.

Its kind of embarrassing because where I live now, everybody drives. Everybody, even teenagers.

I don't drive ether, never could due to being partially sighted.
That didn't stop me from finding a way to get things done.

[janoc]

Okay, let me be blunt. The reason I don't have my ham ticket is because I don't drive.

Is there no public transport, taxis, Uber, Lyft, neighbor you could ask a favor?

Seriously, that's a rather ridiculous reason ...

[Richard Crowley]

An interesting bit of history.. why Europe is still eco-friendly and the US is enslaved to oil and gas.

My mother had an aphorism which I never really appreciated until my first visit to Europe.
She said:  "In America 100 years is a long time. And in Europe, 100 miles is a long distance."

I have heard from European visitors that they have the same surprise upon visiting the US.
When we were arranging a tour for 40 visitors from Romania and South Africa, they asked
if they could land in San Francisco and could we just come and pick them up (from Portland, 630mi/1030km)
Or whether they could take a day-trip down to Los Angeles. (1020mi/1640km)

The entire country of England fits into my median-size state (Oregon) with a bit of room to spare.
You can visit three or four countries in Europe before you cross the county line where I live.

I was very impressed by early tales of entire countries like Luxembourg being 100% wired for internet.
Until I realized that the entire country fits into the eastern half of my county.

OTOH, they refer to the "new part of the city" as the portion that was built 500 years ago.

[G0HZU]

When I sat my class A morse exam here in the UK I had to get to Colchester on a Sunday and I still couldn't drive a car back in those days. The person I was lift sharing with was ill on the day and I ended up riding a dirt (moto-x) bike up the A12 to Colchester because I didn't want to wait for another test date. The bike was road legal but it wasn't really meant for regular use on tarmac.
It was only about 30 miles but it was through an horrendous thunderstorm with torrential rain the whole trip. When I got there I was as wet as if I'd jumped in a swimming pool and even though it was summer, it was a very cold day and I was shaking with the cold. Even though I'd only travelled 30 miles I arrived looking like some kind of intrepid explorer who had swam ashore from a sunken boat. Luckily I did pass despite falling off the bike more than once on the way there. The tyres weren't meant to be used on wet tarmac and the roads were like ice because of this. If I could have got there for the equivalent of $50 via a taxicab I would have done this in a heartbeat but there wasn't time to arrange this. So I ended up mixing some 2 stroke premix fuel at the last minute and dashed up the A12 on the dirt bike. Happy days... 

[AF6LJ]

An interesting bit of history.. why Europe is still eco-friendly and the US is enslaved to oil and gas.

My mother had an aphorism which I never really appreciated until my first visit to Europe.
She said:  "In America 100 years is a long time. And in Europe, 100 miles is a long distance."

I have heard from European visitors that they have the same surprise upon visiting the US.
When we were arranging a tour for 40 visitors from Romania and South Africa, they asked
if they could land in San Francisco and could we just come and pick them up (from Portland, 630mi/1030km)
Or whether they could take a day-trip down to Los Angeles. (1020mi/1640km)

The entire country of England fits into my median-size state (Oregon) with a bit of room to spare.
You can visit three or four countries in Europe before you cross the county line where I live.

I was very impressed by early tales of entire countries like Luxembourg being 100% wired for internet.
Until I realized that the entire country fits into the eastern half of my county.

OTOH, they refer to the "new part of the city" as the portion that was built 500 years ago.

Keep in mind that most Europium countries tax their population so much, and for so long they are use to a standard of living different from out own.
Owning a vehicle in many countries over there is out of reach of all but those who are well off simply due to all the taxation. This may be due to fewer people in many of those countries as compared to where I am here in The People's Republic of Kalifornia (The State of California) with 35 million people to suck revenue from, more people here than in the whole of Canada.