Poll

Dave do teardown of the Scientology e-meter?

Yes please!
30 (56.6%)
No
23 (43.4%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Author Topic: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter  (Read 5427 times)

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2017, 03:18:12 am »
Oh cmon! Who are those scared infidels that vote to not wanna see what could become an epic debunk/teardown video!  :scared:

Easy for you to say, because it is not you and your family who would be hunted down and harassed by the scientology nutjobs but Dave and his family. I know someone who was for a number of years an active debunker of scientology, it was not a cost-free exercise for her, it got more than a little unpleasant.

If you're so gung-ho about it, you get the E-meter, you do the tear down video and you put it on youtube. Then you can deal with scientologist's lawyers, you can watch a bunch of the nutjobs stand just one inch outside your property line videoing your every move so that when you finally blow your top from the harassment they can get you prosecuted for assault; and that is just the beginning of the bag of tricks that they bring to bear against their critics. See the link posted above about "Fair Game" or any of the many documentaries about harassment and dirty tricks perpetrated by the scientologists over the years.

Baiting scientology is definitely one of the things that belongs on the list of "things you shouldn't ask other people to do unless you're prepared to do it first yourself".
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Offline mcinque

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2017, 04:20:03 am »
So, according to the "fair game" and scientology aggressive politics, we shouldn't see any e-meter teardown or criticism on the instrument on youtube or on the net, right?

However I undestand that it's easier to target a well known person instead an anonymous posting a single video in the net.
I'm basically still a rookie and because of this, even with the best intentions, I often say bullshit :)
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2017, 04:46:46 am »
So, according to the "fair game" and scientology aggressive politics, we shouldn't see any e-meter teardown or criticism on the instrument on youtube or on the net, right?

However I undestand that it's easier to target a well known person instead an anonymous posting a single video in the net.

No, you just should know what you're asking someone else to get into before you start asking them to debunk scientology, and you'd better be prepared for what you're getting into if you're going to do it yourself. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done, just that it's not a solo sport, except for masochists. If you're going to do it, you're going to need back-up.
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Offline pi^2

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2017, 08:00:24 am »
I voted no, because I don't want to bring Dave and his family into trouble.
You people should take an evening and research Scientology and their fair game doctrine and you will be shocked.
These people are very nasty, it is just like disturbing a bees nest,...come prepared with protection and if not just leave them alone.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2017, 09:03:27 am »
I also voted "no". The electronics can be checked out, but the operation of it cannot really be investigated.

From the Scientology website:
"... In itself, the E-Meter does nothing. It is an electronic instrument that measures mental state and change of state in individuals and assists the precision and speed of auditing..."
"E-Meter is a shortened term for electropsychometer. It is a religious artifact used as a spiritual guide in auditing. It is for use only by a Scientology minister or a Scientology minister-in-training to help the preclear locate and confront areas of spiritual upset."

Another book excerpt:
"Theta bop: a rapid back-and-forth dance of the needle, from 1/8 to 1/2 inch wide, at a rate of 5-10 times per second. In more advanced texts it is revealed that a theta bop is seen when the thetan (spirit) is repeatedly leaving and reentering the body. "

I thought more about the ethics of the engineering behind the product- the CM doing electronics hardware design, firmware and enclosure, would cause a backlash if revealed.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2017, 12:04:51 pm »
I don't see any upside in a teardown.

The circuitry is unlikely to be interesting and its operation can only be critically reviewed if it can be seen being used as intended.  Since that is unlikely, then there's no point.

... and even if you were able to get a hold of such footage, I can see an avalanche of trouble heading this way for all manner of reasons, starting with privacy.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2017, 12:15:56 pm »
This thread will not end up well. This kind of threads will never end up well.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2017, 02:50:10 am »
I suspect the concensus of forum members would be that yes, it needs doing but no, not by Dave. They would almost certainly attack his YouTube channel and there are many ways to do that. It's not worth it - we all have a pretty good idea how Scientologists operate.

ChrisH
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2017, 04:59:49 am »
Nothing should be banned but be prepared to lawyer up in return if you throw stones in that greenhouse.
Been there, done that!  >:D
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline lundmar

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2017, 10:30:53 pm »
Problem is the people who are promoting it are complete nutbags with a large budget and a lot of previous history who will want to cause you trouble.

It's sad that we live in a world where some things can not be criticized without the fear of physical or legal retaliation - it's a blow to the freedom of expression. This is particularly true for the United States which has become a culture dictated by trigger happy lawyers, lawsuits, and corruption.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 01:51:17 am by lundmar »
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2017, 08:20:59 pm »
Without trying to drag up the whole issue again...  For UK TV licence payers, Louis Theroux's 'My Scientology Movie' is being repeated tonight (BBC2 11.15pm). It includes a fairly brief demonstration of the e-meter shown on the previous page 'working'.
Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 
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Offline CJay

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2017, 08:50:11 pm »
"Theta bop: a rapid back-and-forth dance of the needle, from 1/8 to 1/2 inch wide, at a rate of 5-10 times per second. In more advanced texts it is revealed that a theta bop is seen when the thetan (spirit) is repeatedly leaving and reentering the body. "

It's also been demonstrated that music can have an effect on readings, the best type of music is something that's hotly debated among adherents to the theory but it's readily demonstrated that teen pop, especially that from boy bands, has the greatest effect, this is known among the higher level devotees as the Mmm Bop...

(yeah, terrible I know)
M0UAW
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2017, 12:20:24 am »
Without trying to drag up the whole issue again...  For UK TV licence payers, Louis Theroux's 'My Scientology Movie' is being repeated tonight (BBC2 11.15pm). It includes a fairly brief demonstration of the e-meter shown on the previous page 'working'.

Also watching it provides an opportunity to see quite how psychopathic adherents of scientology can be, and thus why some of us were saying "Don't ask Dave to do that".

BTW, this film just increases my amazement at how good Louis Theroux is. I've see similar documentaries before, and I've seen the scientologists come to harass the documentary makers and persist, and persist,  and persist, in that harassment. What I haven't see before is the scientlogists' harassment teams literally running away from the documentary makers.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2017, 01:49:13 am »
Also watching it provides an opportunity to see quite how psychopathic adherents of scientology can be, and thus why some of us were saying "Don't ask Dave to do that".

That pretty much sums up why I said No to a teardown, you need deep pockets and a large chunk of anonymity to deal with that lot, they can be deeply unpleasant if they think you've wronged them.

Seconded on Louis Theroux and not just for the Scientology film, I've admired an awful lot of his work.
M0UAW
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2017, 08:47:59 am »
BTW, this film just increases my amazement at how good Louis Theroux is. I've see similar documentaries before, and I've seen the scientologists come to harass the documentary makers and persist, and persist,  and persist, in that harassment. What I haven't see before is the scientlogists' harassment teams literally running away from the documentary makers.

I agree, he is pretty fearless when faced with such situations (presumably with a lot of forewarnings about what he was getting into). It was pretty funny watching the frantic retreats of the 'monitoring teams' amid clouds of cigarette smoke. There was definitely a feeling of them being sent out to do something without being prepared with any of the answers (reminded me of a few meetings I've attended / been suckered into  :D).

I suddenly see Tom Cruise's 'intense focus' acting style in a new light now.
Chris

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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2017, 09:58:12 am »
There are way more Jedi's in Australia than scientologists. I'd much rather see a light-sabre teardown.

Oh, no. Dave wouldn't look good without his eyebrows.  :)
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Offline cdev

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2017, 10:29:15 am »
I am surprised that they still are around.


"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2017, 02:03:49 pm »
Has anyone checked that they're not like Groucho Marx's moustache?
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2017, 03:42:12 am »
I voted no.

It's not that the Scientologists are evil assholes, they are evil assholes with better lawyers than Dave.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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Offline dbillings

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2017, 03:47:33 am »
All those transistors and resistors pointed every which way make perfect sense if you guys only knew how to detect thetans.  You guys are just jealous because you have crappy thetan levels.  Not like me, I have thetans for days...
 

Online rhb

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2017, 01:27:20 pm »
There were a couple of headless (and IIRC handless) corpses found in Texas who were speculated to have been opponents of scientology.  I don't recall seeing anything after the newspaper report of the bodies being found.

The scientologists had a storefront on Guadalupe opposite UT Austin where they preyed upon stressed out students by offering "free" stress tests.  At a certain level of stress, people are easily influenced.  Pavlov studied this with dogs.   After WW II an ex-military psychiatrist toured the southern US and among other things investigated snake handling sects.  He encountered a young man who devotedly attended revivals.  Not because he had religious inclinations, but because he discovered that some of the girls could be easily persuaded to have sex after a revival meeting.  Sadly I cannot locate the book in my library to supply author and title.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2018, 04:22:46 am »
Another teardown, looks like a slightly more modern version:

https://hackaday.com/2018/07/19/whats-inside-a-scientology-e-meter/

He should really send it to Dave for a good laugh :)
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2018, 04:41:42 am »
I don't really think there's a whole lot to be learned. It has been known for a long time that it's little more than a Wheatstone bridge. Nobody who thinks this BS is genuine is going to be convinced by seeing the insides, it's only people to whom electricity is some kind of invisible black magic who are fooled by this sort of thing.
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2018, 10:13:48 pm »
Wow, from a quick visit to ebay I was surprised to see they even made a 'left-handed' version, where the whole front panel is flipped left-right, i.e. the analog meter is on the left side.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Debunk / Teardown suggestion: Scientology e-meter
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2018, 10:22:04 pm »
They've got so much money they can afford to just burn it making crazy shit.
 


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