Poll

What type of Multimeter shootout would you like to see next?

A new $100 Meter shootout?
76 (39.4%)
$200 (or more?)
52 (26.9%)
Pocket Multimeter
14 (7.3%)
5 1/2 Digit meters
37 (19.2%)
Other
14 (7.3%)

Total Members Voted: 172

Author Topic: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?  (Read 68202 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2013, 08:11:26 pm »
Also, I realize you don't have so much time anymore but I'd really rather you make a thorough review instead of 1 minute teardown and all that, like you said. I don't know, make it a two part or a three part?
A lot of people will point other people to these videos as guides for buying a proper meter and I'd rather see quality and in-depth analysis than something rushed.

It would not be rushed, in fact it might take me longer to do a shorted video. It would just be a lot more concise and better edited.

Dave.
 

Offline tld

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2013, 11:17:00 pm »
It would not be rushed, in fact it might take me longer to do a shorted video. It would just be a lot more concise and better edited.

While quality-mindedness is usually a good thing, keep in mind that a lot of your viewers are used to having our Australian meat served fairly raw.  Trimming the fat can be a good thing, but serving things up overcooked and pre-chewed isn't really required with your target audience.  It's even the subscript from your very own title-banner: "An off-the-cuff video blog... ".

I'm sorry if this comes off as me trying to run off with the directors chair, that's really not my intention, but if you're bogging yourself down with chores (too much editing) on our account, when we like the off-the-cuff-format, then you might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.

You bring a certain enthusiasm, and the surest way to kill that is to turn this - whatever it is - into a chore for yourself.

tld
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2013, 11:57:25 pm »
While quality-mindedness is usually a good thing, keep in mind that a lot of your viewers are used to having our Australian meat served fairly raw.  Trimming the fat can be a good thing, but serving things up overcooked and pre-chewed isn't really required with your target audience.  It's even the subscript from your very own title-banner: "An off-the-cuff video blog... ".

I'm sorry if this comes off as me trying to run off with the directors chair, that's really not my intention, but if you're bogging yourself down with chores (too much editing) on our account, when we like the off-the-cuff-format, then you might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.

You bring a certain enthusiasm, and the surest way to kill that is to turn this - whatever it is - into a chore for yourself.

It's always going to be "off the cuff". I don't really know what I'm going to say until I hit record. That can't change, as I don't know how to do anything different.
Regardless of how I do it, the editing work is the same. The last shootout IIRC had over 200 individual clips.
But there can be differences in say making a conscious decision from the start to keep the length down. Then it's just some simple pre-shoot math:
I have 5 meters, I have 5 different things I want to talk about that need personal commentary (e.g. teardown, look'n'feel), then if I limit myself to 1min max per meter per topic, that's 25 minutes of the episode blown right there. Then there might be say 10 other things I want to test/demo, but that can be all done together. Limit that to say 2 minutes per thing across all meters, that's another 20 minutes there. Toss in a 5min summary, and that's a 50min video. About the max I'd want.

So if I knew I had only one minute to describe the teardown, then I'd be sure to think about a bit more than I usually would, and try to keep it concise.

Now, if I didn't do those calcs at the start, then it would almost certainly get out of hand, and I'd end up with 2 hours of footage (not uncommon) which then I have to try and heavily edit down. Then is comes across as missing stuff, and leaving out stuff, and generally quite messy. I'e generally been trying to that lately, taking out umm's and redundant waffle etc, and some people have noticed the editing being a lot more choppy. But I think that's better than a longer video.

Dave.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 11:59:11 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 12:02:35 am »
Dave:

I will also make an offer to contribute. If you remember this page I linked to a long time ago in a post:
http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/mmcomparison/app/index.html
It is a page to compare errors in measurements that a multimeter can have over its operating range based on its specifications. Once you have the meters rounded up for the shootout I will enter all the specs for the meters and provide images of the comparison charts for you to link to or use in the reviews or here on the forum. It is very interesting to see how creative marketing people can be in the specs to make things look better than they are.
 

Offline jnd

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 12:03:19 am »
Now, if I didn't do those calcs at the start, then it would almost certainly get out of hand, and I'd end up with 2 hours of footage (not uncommon) which then I have to try and heavily edit down. Then is comes across as missing stuff, and leaving out stuff, and generally quite messy. I'e generally been trying to that lately, taking out umm's and redundant waffle etc, and some people have noticed the editing being a lot more choppy. But I think that's better than a longer video.

Dave.
I don't mind some chopper stabilized Dave which doesn't drift so much with ummmmms :-DD I noticed some rough edges but it's not that bad, I'll happily trade that for shorter run time. :-+
Wannabe volt-nut, slowly hunting solid meters with low budget.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2013, 12:08:39 am »
Nice you mentioned that, I am getting a MM570A from Extech it is already shipped out from US to me after this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/teardown-extech-ex570-my-first-but-also-last-extech/
I have high expectations about this meter, so we will see how it is.
At least it's not made by CEM, so that might be a good thing.  ;) What MJLorton showed of the BM867's internals in his review, it looked rather decent IMHO.

Hope to see your posts on it after going through it, as I'm seriously considering one of these myself, or the older 857/9 models if I can find it at a good price (have a line on an 857, so I'm trying to do my research quickly before I miss the chance  ;D).

Brymen BM869, or BM857a, Ignore the Greenlee and other rebrands as they cost 2x -3x as much
Unfortunately, Brymen labeled units may not be an option. For example, I've not been able to locate a vendor based in the US (not eBay listings), so to get one from a US source, it's either Extech or Greenlee and pay the premium it seems. Which could take some of the value out of the units (or a lot, depending on what Brymen can be had for).

Between the two, the Greenlee is easier to read IMHO (don't care for the legend graphics on the Extech branded units nearly as much).

Sent an email to www.tme.eu as they actually sell the Brymen labeled unit to see if it's cheaper to import one, but haven't heard back yet. BTW, their price comes to ~$200USD (BM869A), assuming the indicated price includes VAT. If not, it goes up to ~ $250. Still cheaper than the Greenlee, but probably not by much once shipping is tacked on (seen the Greenlee version for $312).

Correction. The BM85X series is the equivalent of the Extech MM560A/570A, but the prices are certainly not equivalent!
How so?

I ask, as the BM557/9 seem to be older models from what I can tell. Similar guts as per features and specs, but in a different case (rectangular without any narrowing through the grip area as the BM867/9A's do). I have the spec sheets on all of them, and will spend more time to see what may have been updated/changed.

Not that that may be absolutely critical, but the BM85xA series doesn't appear to be 100% identical to the Greenlee and Extech rebrands as the BM86xA series are (save protector color and silk screen). Unless you're referring to other Greenlee or Extech models (not the MM560A or MM570A for example)?
Personally, I'm willing to consider the BM85x models if I can find them, and assuming they're at the right price (haven't located a BM859A yet).  8)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 12:11:03 am by nanofrog »
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2013, 12:28:54 am »
I have purchased my BM869 from TME, but I did not have a very smooth ride with them. In the end all has worked out so I will give them another chance should I see something they have and I cannot get easily elsewhere.

Extech MM570A from testequipmentdepot.com
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm
$330USD plus shipping

Brymen BM859CFA:
http://www.tme.eu/en/Document/3fb09a90418ec420315501d9d2f44376/BM859cf.pdf
$250USD plus shipping

as examples these two meters are not identical but so close they must be the same meter. The price difference is obvious. If you live in the US, then it might be equal or not too much more expensive to get the rebrands but here in Chile everything is imported so shipping is the constant for me on anything. In my case a shipment from Europe is the same as shipping from North America so the Brymen was much less expensive.

BM869 from TME was $240USD, and a Greenlee equivalent DM860A seems to be going as low as $350USD as far as I have been able to find so far.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 12:45:01 am by Lightages »
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2013, 12:53:08 am »
I have purchased my BM869 from TME, but I did not have a very smooth ride with them. In the end all has worked out so I will give them another chance should I see something they have and I cannot get easily elsewhere.

Extech MM570A from testequipmentdepot.com
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm
$330USD plus shipping

Brymen BM859CFA:
http://www.tme.eu/en/Document/3fb09a90418ec420315501d9d2f44376/BM859cf.pdf
$250USD plus shipping

as examples these two meters are not identical but so close they must be the same meter. The price difference is obvious. If you live in the US, then it might be equal or not too much more expensive to get the rebrands but here in Chile everything is imported so shipping is the constant for me on anything. In my case a shipment from Europe is the same as shipping from North America so the Brymen was much less expensive.

BM869 from TME was $240USD, and a Greenlee equivalent DM860A seems to be going as low as $350USD as far as I have been able to find so far.
I still need to see what changed, but I'm by no means opposed to the older models.  ;) Especially if the price is right.  ;D

Importing usually gets expensive, so I'd have gone the same route you did in your situation. Strongly looking like I'll grab a BM857 tonight (price is extremely tempting, but I don't want to leap too quickly and make a mistake as there's a "no returns" condition tied to it).
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2013, 12:59:06 am »
The 857 does not have temperature and compared to the 869 which has 12kV transient protection the 857 has "only" 8kV.
The 857 is only single display compared to dual display of the 869.

Just some fine points on the differences.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2013, 01:40:17 am »
The 857 does not have temperature and compared to the 869 which has 12kV transient protection the 857 has "only" 8kV.
The 857 is only single display compared to dual display of the 869.

Just some fine points on the differences.
Thanks.  :) Picked up on those. Also the x69 models have 1kV fuses rather than 600V units in the x57 models. Not a huge issue, but the additional protection isn't a bad idea IMHO.

Backlight on the newer models appears to be better as well, but none of this kills it for me. I'd much prefer the dual display, but not if I have to add well over $100 to get it.  ;) My U1252B has that, as well as most, if not all of the missing functions.

Spec wise, the 857 & 867 are nearly identical, though the 857 has a slight edge here and there. But not by a lot. Having problems with one of my other meters, so I could use a replacement. So I have an excuse to get one, and I tend to upgrade when I can. This one would definitely be an upgrade by comparison...  >:D
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2013, 02:48:53 am »
For those interested, the Brymen DM867/869A models are also branded as Extech (MM560A/570A respectively) as well as the Greenlee models listed in another thread. Might be worth considering for the $200+ category IMHO, if Dave decides to go this route.

Hope this helps anyone that's interested.  :)
Made a mistake here.  :-[

The Greenlee DM-860A is the newer BM869, but the Extech's are the older BM857/9 series (MM560A & MM570A respectively). Very similar as to features and specs, but there are differences. Dual Display being the most obvious.

BTW, just snagged a BM857A off of eBay as the price was way too good to pass up.  :-DMM
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2013, 04:28:32 am »
That is what I have been trying to tell you. An that is why I was interested in seeing the older model compared in a shootout to see what the differences might be for the older and possibly better buys.

So Dave, are you considering doing a shootout still with clamp meters? Do you want the reading error comparison graphs for whatever shootout you do intend to do?
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2013, 04:50:49 am »
That is what I have been trying to tell you.
It wasn't that clear at that time (frantically scouring the specs between the 4 models so I didn't miss a BM857 on eBay before it expired/was sold), that I hadn't paid enough attention to the Extech's physical appearance. Soft keys were another dead giveaway.  :palm: Snagged it for $70 though.  :)

Given that the older series is still around, I agree it would make for a good comparison between the models based on value. Just not sure if both should be part of a shoot-out though.  :-// I say this, as it could be argued that doing so would take a spot from something else, as Dave will probably be overwhelmed putting it together if there's too many. 
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2013, 05:28:02 am »
Given that the older series is still around, I agree it would make for a good comparison between the models based on value. Just not sure if both should be part of a shoot-out though.  :-// I say this, as it could be argued that doing so would take a spot from something else, as Dave will probably be overwhelmed putting it together if there's too many.

Yep, I'd limit it to an arbitrary 5.
More just gets too much.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2013, 05:28:55 am »
So Dave, are you considering doing a shootout still with clamp meters? Do you want the reading error comparison graphs for whatever shootout you do intend to do?

I don't recall ever considering a clamp meter shootout.

Dave.
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2013, 06:29:51 am »
OK, must have been my imagination.
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2013, 01:35:56 pm »
I know these would be hard to obtain but I'd be happy with a verbal roundup of high end precision meters, bench and portable in the $1000-$2000 range
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2013, 09:24:14 pm »
From the poll so far it looks like people either want another $100 shootout, or an expensive shootout. Any 5-1/2 meter is going to cost more than $200 so you could almost put those two votes together. The 500000 count meters might be considered in the 5-1/2 digit class although they really aren't in the spirit of the poll I guess.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2013, 09:51:18 pm »
I know these would be hard to obtain but I'd be happy with a verbal roundup of high end precision meters, bench and portable in the $1000-$2000 range

There might be a (new) benchtop meter coming soon for review.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2013, 09:53:08 pm »
From the poll so far it looks like people either want another $100 shootout, or an expensive shootout. Any 5-1/2 meter is going to cost more than $200 so you could almost put those two votes together.

Yep, agreed.
So do we have a definitive list yet?  ;D

Dave.
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2013, 12:33:34 am »
I know these would be hard to obtain but I'd be happy with a verbal roundup of high end precision meters, bench and portable in the $1000-$2000 range

There might be a (new) benchtop meter coming soon for review.

Dave.

You seemed to have coined the phrase "Electronic Porn"
What's this then, foreplay?   O0
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2013, 12:34:14 am »
Amprobe AM-160  $270  big brother to the AM-140 already reviewed here on the forums

Brymen BM869 or BM869CFA or Extech MM560A or MM570 $250+ the 869 has been covered before but without video and proper teardown, the Extechs are basically rebrands of the Brymen BM85X series but people have mentioned the MM570A before in suggestions for videos here

UEi DM397  $250 never been seen in a review but seems to be  a great value!

Fluke 179  $300 a good comparison from "the industry standard"  ::)

Extech EX570  $250  after your other Extech fiascoes and the one still ongoing, it would be nice to see if you get another good one or bad one and if it is actually a good meter.

The above would be my list for $200+ meters.

And if you want to blow the wad on a "way out there" comparison:
Hioki DT4282 $500 but I doubt many people here would have any actual interest in buying one but would be interested in seeing one reviewed.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 12:36:10 am by Lightages »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2013, 07:29:19 am »
Amprobe AM-160  $270  big brother to the AM-140 already reviewed here on the forums
Brymen BM869 or BM869CFA or Extech MM560A or MM570 $250+ the 869 has been covered before but without video and proper teardown, the Extechs are basically rebrands of the Brymen BM85X series but people have mentioned the MM570A before in suggestions for videos here
UEi DM397  $250 never been seen in a review but seems to be  a great value!
Fluke 179  $300 a good comparison from "the industry standard"  ::)
Extech EX570  $250  after your other Extech fiascoes and the one still ongoing, it would be nice to see if you get another good one or bad one and if it is actually a good meter.
The above would be my list for $200+ meters.

The Agilent U1242B would have to be in that list.
I wouldn't bother with the Fluke 179, it's really an electrical meter.

Dave.
 

Offline LightagesTopic starter

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2013, 07:42:34 am »
The Agilent U1242B would have to be in that list.
I wouldn't bother with the Fluke 179, it's really an electrical meter.

Dave.

Sounds good to me.

Looks like you have a good list of 5 now..... :)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is it not time for another multimeter shootout yet?
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2013, 08:02:50 am »
Looks like you have a good list of 5 now..... :)

That's the $200 list. The poll says most want the $100 shootout!

Dave.
 


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