EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => News/Suggestions/Help => Topic started by: Lightages on January 17, 2013, 12:14:23 am
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Based on the all the talk still happening on the forums about multimeters, perhaps its time for an updated shootout(s).
Maybe a clamp meter shootout? Pocket meters? Higher range meters in the $200 -$250 range?
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Probably!
But I look forward to editing that about as much as getting teeth extracted :scared:
There was a pocket meter shootout on the cards, and a list compiled on the forum somewhere. I think it got past 10. I never got around to actually acquiring most of them though.
There is always need for an updated $100 meter shootout, as that seems to be the magic figure.
What would people's "Top 5" sub $100 meter list be these days?
If we could get a consensus on the likely best value top 5 meters, then I'll get them and make it happen.
I'd like to deliberately exclude any known crap ones.
Any new shootout I would like to keep much shorter than previous ones. Very brief side-by-side comparisons of each main feature. Like the teardown being say 1 minute commentary on each meter.
Dave.
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Is the Agilent U1231A still going for $99? With free Bluetooth adapter and possibly the calibration certificate? No current range but still pretty good, can't think of other really solid meter for that price.
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There is always need for an updated $100 meter shootout, as that seems to be the magic figure. What would people's "Top 5" sub $100 meter list be these days?
Amprobe AM-270
Brymen BM867
Klein Tools MM2000
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There was a pocket meter shootout on the cards, and a list compiled on the forum somewhere. I think it got past 10. I never got around to actually acquiring most of them though.
Here Dave, this is the list:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/most-compact-high-quality-multimeter/msg68284/#msg68284 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/most-compact-high-quality-multimeter/msg68284/#msg68284)
I like pocket meters, I believe I got 6 of them a shootout would be nice indeed. I would love to see around 200 dollar range meters too, but at the end everyone wants different price range or type so I am happy with any multimeter shootout ^-^
Edit:
I am very interested in UEI DM5B (http://www.aikencolon.com/assets/images/UEI/MultiMeters/DM5B/L534-DM5B-PS.pdf) pocket multimeter for a while now because of it is current range till 5A and detachable test leads. Maybe I should stop buying every Fluke or Gossen second hand when I see them for a decent price and get the UEI DM5B ::)
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I realize it can go a few dollars over $100, but perhaps the Fluke 17b would be worthy of inclusion in that group.
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I realize it can go a few dollars over $100, but perhaps the Fluke 17b would be worthy of inclusion in that group.
Yep, I agree. And I already have one.
Dave.
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Amprobe AM-270
Brymen BM867
Klein Tools MM2000
No way the Brymen BM867 is $100. Franky was listing it on ebay for $285 USD.
Klein Tools MM2000 is basically a UEI which Dave did in the $100 shootout.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/klein-tools-mm2000-multi-meter-review/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/klein-tools-mm2000-multi-meter-review/)
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Hi, I recently bought a Instek GDM-396 under $100
It is a mixture of good and bad. I was dissapointed at first but then seems reliable.
Maybe it is a unit that Dave can use to show exactly this, what is good and what is bad about it.
I made a hack with a switch in the battery compartment so that I can turn off RS-232 output. As a consequence, the auto-sleep mode starts working.
And the way you turn the back light on is just incredibly wrong. As I understand it is the way it was designed in the chipset. This reminds of some comments on why a low cost Fluke, which I don't recall the model now, didn't have backlight. I think it uses the same chipset. And it would be inadmissible for a Fluke to have this way of operation.
Well, 2:30 am here, good night everyone. Good morning Dave!!
CH!
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Amprobe AM-240 $90USD
Agilent U1231A $100USD, sometimes
AXIOMET AX-176 $90USD, no idea who or what this is, just found it in the price range.
BRYMEN BM815A $105USD
BRYMEN BM907 $100USD
Just some ideas. The problem as I see it with selecting a $100 shootout is that there seems to be a clear winner without even starting the war. IMHO, yeah right me humble, the Amprobe AM-270 beats everything in the $100 price range, and maybe even up to $170. The only things that I have seen that might make people pause is the backlight and its size and no frequency counter. If I were buying my first multimeter I would be buying this one. But that is what shootouts are for, to sort out the differences.
I would still prefer to see a shootout in the pocket, or clamp meter, or $200-$300 range first. There hasn't been much that has changed in the $100 class since the last one. Maybe having another shootout with a new crop of different meters could be informative though.
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I've added a poll.
Dave.
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Maybe having another shootout with a new crop of different meters could be informative though.
I would prefer to see Dave review a different batch of manufacturers not covered in the previous $50 and $100 shootout.
There is a lot of interest in Brymen so the Amprobe AM-270 or its variations would be a good candidate.
Dave wants to do the Fluke 17B so that is two.
Maybe something from Japan like a Yokogawa or Hioki in the $100 range?
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There is a lot of interest in Brymen so the Amprobe AM-270 or its variations would be a good candidate.
Is the Amprobe a rebadged Brymen?
Dave.
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I believe so. From the specs I think it's a rebadged BM817a, except that the Amprobe doesn't have the USB data logging.
There is a lot of interest in Brymen so the Amprobe AM-270 or its variations would be a good candidate.
Is the Amprobe a rebadged Brymen?
Dave.
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There is a lot of interest in Brymen so the Amprobe AM-270 or its variations would be a good candidate.
Is the Amprobe a rebadged Brymen?
Dave.
Your honor, may I present the following pictorial exhibits A, B and C. Namely, Amprobe AM-270, Brymen BM817a and Greenlee DM820.
http://content.amprobe.com/HighResImages/am-270.jpg (http://content.amprobe.com/HighResImages/am-270.jpg)
http://brymen.com/product-html/cata810a/BM810a_Catalog.pdf (http://brymen.com/product-html/cata810a/BM810a_Catalog.pdf)
http://www.1stplacesupply.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/3/332-dm-820_1.jpg (http://www.1stplacesupply.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/3/332-dm-820_1.jpg)
Amprobe, from the little I know, doesn't seem to do any "engineering" or "design". The 34XR you reviewed in the $100 multimeter shootout was a Meterman product. Many of the Amprobe offerings seem to be from Brymen or APPA Tech OEM. This is ironic seeing how Fluke competes against some of the same products but in different manufacturer's clothing.
edit: Apparently, Franky in HK, has faster Internet speeds than Canada. His post beat me by one minute.
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And if you are thinking of doing a 500,000 count multimeter shootout, you will basically be doing a review of one multimeter in various clothing/skins. See what I posted on Martin's site
http://mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=111.msg699#msg699 (http://mjlorton.com/forum/index.php?topic=111.msg699#msg699)
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Your honor, may I present the following pictorial exhibits A, B and C. Namely, Amprobe AM-270, Brymen BM817a and Greenlee DM820.
http://content.amprobe.com/HighResImages/am-270.jpg (http://content.amprobe.com/HighResImages/am-270.jpg)
http://brymen.com/product-html/cata810a/BM810a_Catalog.pdf (http://brymen.com/product-html/cata810a/BM810a_Catalog.pdf)
http://www.1stplacesupply.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/3/332-dm-820_1.jpg (http://www.1stplacesupply.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/3/332-dm-820_1.jpg)
Yep, same heritage, but different cases, and hence likely different PCB designs inside?
Which one to include in any shootout?
Amprobe, from the little I know, doesn't seem to do any "engineering" or "design". The 34XR you reviewed in the $100 multimeter shootout was a Meterman
That's because Fluke actually bought both Amprobe and Meterman.
They kept the Amprobe brand as a seperate line, and the Meterman meters were rebranded as Amprobe.
Dave.
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Dave,
If you're going to do a $200+ meter shootout I'd like to offer to send a Brymen 521 / 525 for you to look at. Martin had a review on the BM-867 and there have been a few reviews and teardown on that and the 869, but not too many people seem to be aware of the 520's series. They are 10,000-count, dual display, data logging capable (both via USB and with internal memory). Difference between the 525 and the 521 is only the internal memory size and dual temperature measurement on 525 while 521 doesn't do temp.
http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/cata520/Bm520L2.htm (http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/cata520/Bm520L2.htm)
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Yep, same heritage, but different cases, and hence likely different PCB designs inside?
Picture of Amprobe AM-270 from FenderBender teardown post
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/teardown-amprobe-am-270-digital-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=16622;image (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/teardown-amprobe-am-270-digital-multimeter/?action=dlattach;attach=16622;image)
I have a Greenlee DM-820 and included a picture of mine. Yes there are differences. Mine came with pre-blown fuses (seller tried to pull a fast one on me).
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Another shootout would be appreciated. While I don't have a full list, I'd like to just quickly mention two things.
First is that the basic question most seem to have is something along the lines of:
"If I were to buy a multimeter, that's not crap, and I won't regret not shelling out an extra couple of bucks to get a better one, which should I buy?", or perhaps "Without compromising, which multimeter offers the best value for money, and doesn't miss anything I'll miss?", or even "What can I buy without regretting? Either because I needlessly spent too much, or miss features or quality".
I think people are looking for an answer to that kind of question, and that's probably more important to them than which exact price-point they find their answer at.
Could be worthwhile to get a bit loose on the $100-mark, both up and down?
When that's said, I'd like to mention the Uni-T UT61E. It seems to be that a lot of people have it, and are happy with it. Perhaps more so than any other single sub-$100 multimeter. If nothing else, that does make it a bit of a benchmark, and it could be interesting to see it included in the test. Call it a reference if you'd like. ;)
Also, I'm betting a lot of people *will* follow your words, both wisely and otherwise. ;)
(and I'm betting you won't bet against it... recurse that if you'd like...)
For that reason as well, including the UT61E would be interesting. I'd hate to see droves of people rush off to get a $100 meter, if they'd be happy with a $50-ish one, or buy a single $100 meter, when they'd be better off with two $50 ones.
(disclaimer; I do own a UT61E as well, but that's not why I'd like to see it included. Sure, it's always fun to see reviews of stuff you bought, but I'm looking specifically for something different for my next one, so I'm not asking for me, I'm asking because it's a pretty decent choice for your first decent-quality meter. Personally I'd like backlight and a couple of other things though).
tld
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For those interested, the Brymen DM867/869A models are also branded as Extech (MM560A/570A respectively) as well as the Greenlee models listed in another thread. Might be worth considering for the $200+ category IMHO, if Dave decides to go this route.
Hope this helps anyone that's interested. :)
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I second what tld says in regard to Uni-T 61E.
I have it, I may be a bit biased, but anyway.
Perhaps the price cutoff is a bit incorrect. Maybe the cutoff should be around $75 and $150. The dollar is not as "valuable" as it was in the last test.
If you put a meter like the $55-60 Uni-t 61E in comparison to any $50 meter, it will probably win, but put it in contest with meters up to $100, it may not be noticed (the more expensive ones having better protection etc).
Also, I realize you don't have so much time anymore but I'd really rather you make a thorough review instead of 1 minute teardown and all that, like you said. I don't know, make it a two part or a three part?
A lot of people will point other people to these videos as guides for buying a proper meter and I'd rather see quality and in-depth analysis than something rushed.
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For those interested, the Brymen DM867/869A models are also branded as Extech (MM560A/570A respectively) as well as the Greenlee models listed in another thread.
Nice you mentioned that, I am getting a MM570A from Extech it is already shipped out from US to me after this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/teardown-extech-ex570-my-first-but-also-last-extech/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/teardown-extech-ex570-my-first-but-also-last-extech/)
I have high expectations about this meter, so we will see how it is.
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One item missed in the poll, clamp meters!
I think that if a $100 shootout is going to be done then out of all the Brymens and Brymen "rebrands" then the Amprobe AM-270 is the right price for many people. The Brymens with the same specs go much higher than $100.
If a $200+ shootout is going to happen then the Brymen BM86X has been discussed very much already and reviewed in detail by Martin Lorton. In that case it might be useful to review the BM857a as another model in a more traditional shape. I was thinking specifically for a $200-$300 range for that shootout because there are a few real alternatives to the $400+ Flukes and Agilents.
If you do a $200+ shootout:
Brymen BM869, or BM857a, Ignore the Greenlee and other rebrands as they cost 2x -3x as much
UEi DM397
Extech EX570A (leaves a bad taste in my mouth right now even suggesting Extech :o )
Any Agilent that fits the price
Any Fluke that fits the price
In any case it might also be a good idea to review/inspect and comment on each meter's compliance to its labelled CAT ratings and the safest limit of use of the meter based on its actual construction regardless of its rating.
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For those interested, the Brymen DM867/869A models are also branded as Extech (MM560A/570A respectively) as well as the Greenlee models listed in another thread. Might be worth considering for the $200+ category IMHO, if Dave decides to go this route.
Hope this helps anyone that's interested. :)
Correction. The BM85X series is the equivalent of the Extech MM560A/570A, but the prices are certainly not equivalent!
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Also, I realize you don't have so much time anymore but I'd really rather you make a thorough review instead of 1 minute teardown and all that, like you said. I don't know, make it a two part or a three part?
A lot of people will point other people to these videos as guides for buying a proper meter and I'd rather see quality and in-depth analysis than something rushed.
It would not be rushed, in fact it might take me longer to do a shorted video. It would just be a lot more concise and better edited.
Dave.
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It would not be rushed, in fact it might take me longer to do a shorted video. It would just be a lot more concise and better edited.
While quality-mindedness is usually a good thing, keep in mind that a lot of your viewers are used to having our Australian meat served fairly raw. Trimming the fat can be a good thing, but serving things up overcooked and pre-chewed isn't really required with your target audience. It's even the subscript from your very own title-banner: "An off-the-cuff video blog... ".
I'm sorry if this comes off as me trying to run off with the directors chair, that's really not my intention, but if you're bogging yourself down with chores (too much editing) on our account, when we like the off-the-cuff-format, then you might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.
You bring a certain enthusiasm, and the surest way to kill that is to turn this - whatever it is - into a chore for yourself.
tld
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While quality-mindedness is usually a good thing, keep in mind that a lot of your viewers are used to having our Australian meat served fairly raw. Trimming the fat can be a good thing, but serving things up overcooked and pre-chewed isn't really required with your target audience. It's even the subscript from your very own title-banner: "An off-the-cuff video blog... ".
I'm sorry if this comes off as me trying to run off with the directors chair, that's really not my intention, but if you're bogging yourself down with chores (too much editing) on our account, when we like the off-the-cuff-format, then you might be trying to solve a problem you don't have.
You bring a certain enthusiasm, and the surest way to kill that is to turn this - whatever it is - into a chore for yourself.
It's always going to be "off the cuff". I don't really know what I'm going to say until I hit record. That can't change, as I don't know how to do anything different.
Regardless of how I do it, the editing work is the same. The last shootout IIRC had over 200 individual clips.
But there can be differences in say making a conscious decision from the start to keep the length down. Then it's just some simple pre-shoot math:
I have 5 meters, I have 5 different things I want to talk about that need personal commentary (e.g. teardown, look'n'feel), then if I limit myself to 1min max per meter per topic, that's 25 minutes of the episode blown right there. Then there might be say 10 other things I want to test/demo, but that can be all done together. Limit that to say 2 minutes per thing across all meters, that's another 20 minutes there. Toss in a 5min summary, and that's a 50min video. About the max I'd want.
So if I knew I had only one minute to describe the teardown, then I'd be sure to think about a bit more than I usually would, and try to keep it concise.
Now, if I didn't do those calcs at the start, then it would almost certainly get out of hand, and I'd end up with 2 hours of footage (not uncommon) which then I have to try and heavily edit down. Then is comes across as missing stuff, and leaving out stuff, and generally quite messy. I'e generally been trying to that lately, taking out umm's and redundant waffle etc, and some people have noticed the editing being a lot more choppy. But I think that's better than a longer video.
Dave.
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Dave:
I will also make an offer to contribute. If you remember this page I linked to a long time ago in a post:
http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/mmcomparison/app/index.html (http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/mmcomparison/app/index.html)
It is a page to compare errors in measurements that a multimeter can have over its operating range based on its specifications. Once you have the meters rounded up for the shootout I will enter all the specs for the meters and provide images of the comparison charts for you to link to or use in the reviews or here on the forum. It is very interesting to see how creative marketing people can be in the specs to make things look better than they are.
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Now, if I didn't do those calcs at the start, then it would almost certainly get out of hand, and I'd end up with 2 hours of footage (not uncommon) which then I have to try and heavily edit down. Then is comes across as missing stuff, and leaving out stuff, and generally quite messy. I'e generally been trying to that lately, taking out umm's and redundant waffle etc, and some people have noticed the editing being a lot more choppy. But I think that's better than a longer video.
Dave.
I don't mind some chopper stabilized Dave which doesn't drift so much with ummmmms :-DD I noticed some rough edges but it's not that bad, I'll happily trade that for shorter run time. :-+
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Nice you mentioned that, I am getting a MM570A from Extech it is already shipped out from US to me after this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/teardown-extech-ex570-my-first-but-also-last-extech/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/teardown-extech-ex570-my-first-but-also-last-extech/)
I have high expectations about this meter, so we will see how it is.
At least it's not made by CEM, so that might be a good thing. ;) What MJLorton showed of the BM867's internals in his review, it looked rather decent IMHO.
Hope to see your posts on it after going through it, as I'm seriously considering one of these myself, or the older 857/9 models if I can find it at a good price (have a line on an 857, so I'm trying to do my research quickly before I miss the chance ;D).
Brymen BM869, or BM857a, Ignore the Greenlee and other rebrands as they cost 2x -3x as much
Unfortunately, Brymen labeled units may not be an option. For example, I've not been able to locate a vendor based in the US (not eBay listings), so to get one from a US source, it's either Extech or Greenlee and pay the premium it seems. Which could take some of the value out of the units (or a lot, depending on what Brymen can be had for).
Between the two, the Greenlee is easier to read IMHO (don't care for the legend graphics on the Extech branded units nearly as much).
Sent an email to www.tme.eu (http://www.tme.eu) as they actually sell the Brymen labeled unit to see if it's cheaper to import one, but haven't heard back yet. BTW, their price comes to ~$200USD (BM869A), assuming the indicated price includes VAT. If not, it goes up to ~ $250. Still cheaper than the Greenlee, but probably not by much once shipping is tacked on (seen the Greenlee version for $312).
Correction. The BM85X series is the equivalent of the Extech MM560A/570A, but the prices are certainly not equivalent!
How so?
I ask, as the BM557/9 seem to be older models from what I can tell. Similar guts as per features and specs, but in a different case (rectangular without any narrowing through the grip area as the BM867/9A's do). I have the spec sheets on all of them, and will spend more time to see what may have been updated/changed.
Not that that may be absolutely critical, but the BM85xA series doesn't appear to be 100% identical to the Greenlee and Extech rebrands as the BM86xA series are (save protector color and silk screen). Unless you're referring to other Greenlee or Extech models (not the MM560A or MM570A for example)?
Personally, I'm willing to consider the BM85x models if I can find them, and assuming they're at the right price (haven't located a BM859A yet). 8)
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I have purchased my BM869 from TME, but I did not have a very smooth ride with them. In the end all has worked out so I will give them another chance should I see something they have and I cannot get easily elsewhere.
Extech MM570A from testequipmentdepot.com
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm (http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm)
$330USD plus shipping
Brymen BM859CFA:
http://www.tme.eu/en/Document/3fb09a90418ec420315501d9d2f44376/BM859cf.pdf (http://www.tme.eu/en/Document/3fb09a90418ec420315501d9d2f44376/BM859cf.pdf)
$250USD plus shipping
as examples these two meters are not identical but so close they must be the same meter. The price difference is obvious. If you live in the US, then it might be equal or not too much more expensive to get the rebrands but here in Chile everything is imported so shipping is the constant for me on anything. In my case a shipment from Europe is the same as shipping from North America so the Brymen was much less expensive.
BM869 from TME was $240USD, and a Greenlee equivalent DM860A seems to be going as low as $350USD as far as I have been able to find so far.
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I have purchased my BM869 from TME, but I did not have a very smooth ride with them. In the end all has worked out so I will give them another chance should I see something they have and I cannot get easily elsewhere.
Extech MM570A from testequipmentdepot.com
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm (http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/extech/multimeters/mm570a.htm)
$330USD plus shipping
Brymen BM859CFA:
http://www.tme.eu/en/Document/3fb09a90418ec420315501d9d2f44376/BM859cf.pdf (http://www.tme.eu/en/Document/3fb09a90418ec420315501d9d2f44376/BM859cf.pdf)
$250USD plus shipping
as examples these two meters are not identical but so close they must be the same meter. The price difference is obvious. If you live in the US, then it might be equal or not too much more expensive to get the rebrands but here in Chile everything is imported so shipping is the constant for me on anything. In my case a shipment from Europe is the same as shipping from North America so the Brymen was much less expensive.
BM869 from TME was $240USD, and a Greenlee equivalent DM860A seems to be going as low as $350USD as far as I have been able to find so far.
I still need to see what changed, but I'm by no means opposed to the older models. ;) Especially if the price is right. ;D
Importing usually gets expensive, so I'd have gone the same route you did in your situation. Strongly looking like I'll grab a BM857 tonight (price is extremely tempting, but I don't want to leap too quickly and make a mistake as there's a "no returns" condition tied to it).
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The 857 does not have temperature and compared to the 869 which has 12kV transient protection the 857 has "only" 8kV.
The 857 is only single display compared to dual display of the 869.
Just some fine points on the differences.
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The 857 does not have temperature and compared to the 869 which has 12kV transient protection the 857 has "only" 8kV.
The 857 is only single display compared to dual display of the 869.
Just some fine points on the differences.
Thanks. :) Picked up on those. Also the x69 models have 1kV fuses rather than 600V units in the x57 models. Not a huge issue, but the additional protection isn't a bad idea IMHO.
Backlight on the newer models appears to be better as well, but none of this kills it for me. I'd much prefer the dual display, but not if I have to add well over $100 to get it. ;) My U1252B has that, as well as most, if not all of the missing functions.
Spec wise, the 857 & 867 are nearly identical, though the 857 has a slight edge here and there. But not by a lot. Having problems with one of my other meters, so I could use a replacement. So I have an excuse to get one, and I tend to upgrade when I can. This one would definitely be an upgrade by comparison... >:D
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For those interested, the Brymen DM867/869A models are also branded as Extech (MM560A/570A respectively) as well as the Greenlee models listed in another thread. Might be worth considering for the $200+ category IMHO, if Dave decides to go this route.
Hope this helps anyone that's interested. :)
Made a mistake here. :-[
The Greenlee DM-860A is the newer BM869, but the Extech's are the older BM857/9 series (MM560A & MM570A respectively). Very similar as to features and specs, but there are differences. Dual Display being the most obvious.
BTW, just snagged a BM857A off of eBay as the price was way too good to pass up. :-DMM
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That is what I have been trying to tell you. An that is why I was interested in seeing the older model compared in a shootout to see what the differences might be for the older and possibly better buys.
So Dave, are you considering doing a shootout still with clamp meters? Do you want the reading error comparison graphs for whatever shootout you do intend to do?
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That is what I have been trying to tell you.
It wasn't that clear at that time (frantically scouring the specs between the 4 models so I didn't miss a BM857 on eBay before it expired/was sold), that I hadn't paid enough attention to the Extech's physical appearance. Soft keys were another dead giveaway. :palm: Snagged it for $70 though. :)
Given that the older series is still around, I agree it would make for a good comparison between the models based on value. Just not sure if both should be part of a shoot-out though. :-// I say this, as it could be argued that doing so would take a spot from something else, as Dave will probably be overwhelmed putting it together if there's too many.
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Given that the older series is still around, I agree it would make for a good comparison between the models based on value. Just not sure if both should be part of a shoot-out though. :-// I say this, as it could be argued that doing so would take a spot from something else, as Dave will probably be overwhelmed putting it together if there's too many.
Yep, I'd limit it to an arbitrary 5.
More just gets too much.
Dave.
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So Dave, are you considering doing a shootout still with clamp meters? Do you want the reading error comparison graphs for whatever shootout you do intend to do?
I don't recall ever considering a clamp meter shootout.
Dave.
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OK, must have been my imagination.
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I know these would be hard to obtain but I'd be happy with a verbal roundup of high end precision meters, bench and portable in the $1000-$2000 range
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From the poll so far it looks like people either want another $100 shootout, or an expensive shootout. Any 5-1/2 meter is going to cost more than $200 so you could almost put those two votes together. The 500000 count meters might be considered in the 5-1/2 digit class although they really aren't in the spirit of the poll I guess.
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I know these would be hard to obtain but I'd be happy with a verbal roundup of high end precision meters, bench and portable in the $1000-$2000 range
There might be a (new) benchtop meter coming soon for review.
Dave.
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From the poll so far it looks like people either want another $100 shootout, or an expensive shootout. Any 5-1/2 meter is going to cost more than $200 so you could almost put those two votes together.
Yep, agreed.
So do we have a definitive list yet? ;D
Dave.
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I know these would be hard to obtain but I'd be happy with a verbal roundup of high end precision meters, bench and portable in the $1000-$2000 range
There might be a (new) benchtop meter coming soon for review.
Dave.
You seemed to have coined the phrase "Electronic Porn"
What's this then, foreplay? O0
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Amprobe AM-160 $270 big brother to the AM-140 already reviewed here on the forums
Brymen BM869 or BM869CFA or Extech MM560A or MM570 $250+ the 869 has been covered before but without video and proper teardown, the Extechs are basically rebrands of the Brymen BM85X series but people have mentioned the MM570A before in suggestions for videos here
UEi DM397 $250 never been seen in a review but seems to be a great value!
Fluke 179 $300 a good comparison from "the industry standard" ::)
Extech EX570 $250 after your other Extech fiascoes and the one still ongoing, it would be nice to see if you get another good one or bad one and if it is actually a good meter.
The above would be my list for $200+ meters.
And if you want to blow the wad on a "way out there" comparison:
Hioki DT4282 $500 but I doubt many people here would have any actual interest in buying one but would be interested in seeing one reviewed.
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Amprobe AM-160 $270 big brother to the AM-140 already reviewed here on the forums
Brymen BM869 or BM869CFA or Extech MM560A or MM570 $250+ the 869 has been covered before but without video and proper teardown, the Extechs are basically rebrands of the Brymen BM85X series but people have mentioned the MM570A before in suggestions for videos here
UEi DM397 $250 never been seen in a review but seems to be a great value!
Fluke 179 $300 a good comparison from "the industry standard" ::)
Extech EX570 $250 after your other Extech fiascoes and the one still ongoing, it would be nice to see if you get another good one or bad one and if it is actually a good meter.
The above would be my list for $200+ meters.
The Agilent U1242B would have to be in that list.
I wouldn't bother with the Fluke 179, it's really an electrical meter.
Dave.
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The Agilent U1242B would have to be in that list.
I wouldn't bother with the Fluke 179, it's really an electrical meter.
Dave.
Sounds good to me.
Looks like you have a good list of 5 now..... :)
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Looks like you have a good list of 5 now..... :)
That's the $200 list. The poll says most want the $100 shootout!
Dave.
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Amprobe AM-160 $270 big brother to the AM-140 already reviewed here on the forums
Brymen BM869 or BM869CFA or Extech MM560A or MM570 $250+ the 869 has been covered before but without video and proper teardown, the Extechs are basically rebrands of the Brymen BM85X series but people have mentioned the MM570A before in suggestions for videos here
The AM-160 is also rebaged Brymen. So only one of those 3. That leaves another slot available...
Dave.
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Dave never reviewed the UNI-T UT71E. It could be included in the 200$ shoot-out, selling for about 170$ at the moment and still attracting a fair amount of interest.
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I have no wishes about wich meter , i have over 35 upto 7,5 digits so i can do my own shoot out if i want to, but I have a few suggestions.
I think your shootouts are much used before buying a meter, it is good you look at things like fuses, safety, inserted screws ext but I miss the most important things. You buy a meter to measure so it would be cool to know if they do that decent.
- change battery for bench supply and hook meter to voltagestandard and lower psu output to emulate a empty battery and if it affect readings
- test resistance mesasuring a 1 Ohm and a 10K and 10M and 100M
- input resistance ( i know a guy who asked advise after he bought a Fluke electriciens model to use for repairing tube amps, that was a waist of money (only low Z 110 or 114 can not remember)
- tempco, what does it to at 20 degrees and what at 35 degrees ( must be easy in australia, measure indoor and outdoor)
These are typical things that seperate the boys from the men. And this I would like to know when I buy a meter.
I see to many tear downs here ( from users ) that do not include a true performance test. And then you get conclusions like the Mastech LCR meter is the same as the IET DE5000 because it looks like they use the same chipset based on nothing other then looks. But nobody mentions that accuracy is different, powersupply demants are different, it has no autopower off ect.
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Unisource DM-931 $110
Amprobe AM-270 $90
Agilent U1231A $100
BRYMEN BM815A $107
Fluke 17B $100
Extech MM570A at $330 or Brymen BM869CF at $260
UEi DM397 $250
Agilent U1242B $250
Ideal 61-486 $210
TPI 194 $250
and of course if you want to swap in a UT71E for one of the others as suggested.
My last shot at a list or two for these ranges of price and type. It is a bit of a pain selecting things for a good spread on a review isn't it?
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Unisource DM-931 $110
Amprobe AM-270 $90
Agilent U1231A $100
BRYMEN BM815A $107
Fluke 17B $100
The Agilent doesn't have a mA range, so I''d rule it out.
The Unit-T 71E is too far over $100
Dave.
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The UT71E was for the $200 range although not really above $200.
If you want to through a Uni-T into the $100 fray, the n the UT71A for $115?
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Maybe, the UNI-T UT71C then, as it can be bought for 120$, plus shipping of course.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barnd-New-UNI-T-Intelligent-Digital-Multimeters-UT71C-/260824511145?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cba5a32a9 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Barnd-New-UNI-T-Intelligent-Digital-Multimeters-UT71C-/260824511145?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cba5a32a9)
It has the same features as the 71E, only lacking the power measurement function.
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If you want to through a Uni-T into the $100 fray, the n the UT71A for $115?
I'd get lynched by the Uni-T fanboys if I didn't include one!
The 71C is >$130 here. Too much over the the other meters?
Dave.
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If you want to through a Uni-T into the $100 fray, the n the UT71A for $115?
I'd get lynched by the Uni-T fanboys if I didn't include one!
The 71C is >$130 here. Too much over the the other meters?
Dave.
Perhaps just throw the very popular UT61E into the $100 mix?
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Include also the "Prova 903 multimeter" ! ;)
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If you want to through a Uni-T into the $100 fray, the n the UT71A for $115?
I'd get lynched by the Uni-T fanboys if I didn't include one!
The 71C is >$130 here. Too much over the the other meters?
Dave.
Go for the 71A or 71B then, if you can get one for less in Oz. Same meter really, just lower count mainly.
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Perhaps just throw the very popular UT61E into the $100 mix?
Possibly, but it's more like a killer $50 meter really.
I hate Uni-T, so many bloody options.
The UT71A and UT71B are in the $110 price range in Oz, but wildly different specs.
I chose the "wrong" Uni-T in the old $100 shootout and have been copping flack fr that ever since! ::)
Dave.
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Ask the companies directly. "What is your 100 $ DMM".
Alexander.
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I hate Uni-T, so many bloody options.
So many bloody options, and *none* of them get it entirely right. Want backlight? Then you have to give up something else you'd like, etc.
You'd think that when they put out a new model, they'd at least try to fix what's lacking with the previous, but not Uni-T.
Anyway, the UT61E would probably serve you well as a "baseline" in the test, something for the others to exceed. It'd also provide a shared point of reference with the viewers, a lot of which seem to have it. There's a ton of reviews and teardowns as well, for those that might not.
If you draw up the other meters on a scale (not necessarily literally), a shared point of reference will make the scale a lot more valuable. :)
The other two videos ($50 and $100 shootout), have been somewhat of a go-to-thing for a lot of people, and they were how I found eevblog in the first place. Someone mentioned them on IRC when I was asking about a meter, or some such thing. Including a common point of reference, and what seems to be the most discussed and considered meter, would surely fit in such a picture.
Could be worthwhile even if you'd have to do 5 $100 meters, plus the baseline?
Other than that, there seems to be a lot of OEMing, rebranding and that kind of thing going on. I think the video would do well to not end as a review of two models of one model, three of another, but rather aim for unique designs. I haven't been able to keep up, so I have little to offer on which are rebrandings of others. :/
(feels like I ask, but cat't offer, but... )
Anyway, I'm glad you're doing this, and looking forward to the video. :)
tld
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The Uni-T UT71 range is not fragmented like the UT61 variants.
All the features found on the A model are carried throughout the range.
Need temperature, higher accuracy or internal data logging (100 points)? Go for B model or higher
Need better accuracy still and higher count? Go for C model or higher (40,000 count)
Need large memory internal data logging? Go for D model (10,000 points)
Need power measurement function? Go for E model
Quite a logical progression and cost effectiveness according to one's needs.
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The Uni-T UT71 range is not as fragmented as the UT61.
Sounds better range/feature-wise, but isn't the UT71 "known bad"?
(I'm asking because I don't know, just seems to be claimed when discussion pops up around it on the interwebs).
If it's "known bad", it might not make a good choice to include in the test, at least not for a baseline like the UT61E could be.
If I'm just mistaken (which I hope), then it could be very interesting indeed.
(I suppose both would be nice, but I'm not betting on Dave turning it into a Uni-T shootout. ;) )
tld
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Sounds better range/feature-wise, but isn't the UT71 "known bad"?
If nothing else, then for the archive...
This might have been my bad. I got a bit curious, worried that I might have spoken too soon, and it turns out there are several favorable reviews of the UT71-series, with some bad comments about the UT71E-model specifically. When I tracked down the references I vaguely recalled, they all seem to be from one user here on the forum:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/review-uni-t-ut81b-scopemeter/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/review-uni-t-ut81b-scopemeter/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/which-dmm/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/which-dmm/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/anyone-ever-use-any-of-the-uni-t-lcr-meters-any-internal-pics/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/anyone-ever-use-any-of-the-uni-t-lcr-meters-any-internal-pics/)
Maybe differences between models, many be was extra unlucky with his, I don't know.
Just figured I should add some balance to my previous comment, sorry about that one guys.
tld
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Well, the UT71 is certainly not perfect.
The main criticism has been about its weak input protection and rightly so.
Apart from that, it is just a normal multimeter, with an all-in DMM ADC and a microcontroller.
Its accuracy is within the published specifications, garanteed for one year. Like any meter, it should be calibrated on a regular basis after that time period.
A few vocal individuals have had issues with the cheap meters they bought on line, venting their frustration on blogs and YouTube, instead of sending their meters to a UNI-T repair center.
One ignorant individual, with buyer's remorse, made some negative videos about perceived flaws with his meter, which didn't exist.
I guess one seldom hears from happy customers.
I own two of them and never regretted buying them, to the contrary. I do use them mostly as bench meters.
If one needs a meter for regular work on high power circuits, there certainly are better options out there.
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One ignorant individual, with buyer's remorse, made some negative videos about perceived flaws with his meter, which didn't exist.
Got a link for that?
I guess one seldom hears from happy customers.
Not so, plenty of Uni-T and other cheap meter fanboys spruiking on here for example.
People just remember the negative stuff more.
Dave.
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Here is one video:
Uni-T UT71 Multimeter test, flaws and lousy features (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXaEqTj1u_o#ws)
You can find the others by searching for UT71.
About happy customers, I was thinking of the UT71 owners in particular.
I only know of a couple of them on your blog. There should be more, but they seem to keep a low profile or perhaps few people here, actually own this meter.
Yes, I know, there are plenty of 61E fanboys here.
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HEADS UP:
I've contacted Brymen and they are happy to send me the BM869 and BM857a for review. And for the $100 price bracket I suggested the BM815A, but they suggested the BM255 instead.
Thoughts?
Get your opinions in before I hit reply...
Dave.
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And for the $100 price bracket I suggested the BM815A, but they suggested the BM255 instead.
Thoughts?
Get your opinions in before I hit reply...
Although it seems to be an older model, I'd probably be prone to consider the MB817A as it has a bit of an edge spec wise at a quick glance, including safety.
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BM255: 6000 count and not even True RMS for 100$. They must have something better than that surely!
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BM255: 6000 count and not even True RMS for 100$. They must have something better than that surely!
I'd at least go the BM257 which is slightly over $100 and True RMS.
Dave.
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BM255: 6000 count and not even True RMS for 100$. They must have something better than that surely!
I'd at least go the BM257 which is slightly over $100 and True RMS.
How much over the magic $100 figure would you be willing to consider for a meter that's worth it (= excellent value for the few extra clams)?
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The BM257 is a better contender, but for the 6000 count, with no high res mode. If there is nothing else with a higher count, that one should do.
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Difficult question.
If you need a firm cut-off point, I would venture 10% above threshold. Any higher figure would probably open up the competition to more expensive meters and make the restricted comparison meaningless.
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instead of sending their meters to a UNI-T repair center.
From Europe? Where is the nearest repair center? Somewhere around half the world in Asia? And maybe some day Uni-T will even provide the information on their web site that they have repair centers at all. And heaven forbid, maybe some day they they will manage to even provide their location and contact information.
But as long as they don't tell their users that they have these repair centers, they aren't of much use.
So they end up with pissed users who have no reasonable means to sort out an issue with a Uni-T product. And that is not the fault of the user.
(But heaven forbid you suggest that people should not buy their unsupported, unsafe stuff ...)
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Although it seems to be an older model, I'd probably be prone to consider the MB817A as it has a bit of an edge spec wise at a quick glance, including safety.
Yes, better specs, and input protection, 60ohm range, but compared to the BM257 the BM817A is :
- bigger
- Maybe not UL listed? (I'd trust a UL listed meter with lesser CAT than a higher CAT with no UL testing)
- No NCV EF tester
- $15 more, putting it a fair way outside the $100 limit.
Dave.
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Difficult question.
If you need a firm cutoff point, I would venture 10% above threshold. Any higher figure would probably open up the competition to more expensive meters and make the restricted comparison meaningless.
Let me offer up an example of why I asked;
I can get a UEi DM391 for $100, and the DM393 for $135 from the same vendor (just for comparison's sake, as the DM391 made the cut in the last $100 shootout). That seems about the going rate to add TRMS features to what is otherwise the same meter IIRC, and is outside of the 10% threshold you propose.
Yes, better specs, and input protection, 60ohm range, but compared to the BM257 the BM817A is :
- bigger
- Maybe not UL listed? (I'd trust a UL listed meter with lesser CAT than a higher CAT with no UL testing)
- No NCV EF tester
- $15 more, putting it a fair way outside the $100 limit.
I was paying more attention to the fuse and transient values than the CAT ratings, given the CAT Fail thread (600V fuses & 8kV transient values for the BM817 instead of 500V & 6kV for the BM255).
Given the underrated fuses vs. CAT ratings that have been seen, do you think the UL compliance testing claims are genuine?
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instead of sending their meters to a UNI-T repair center.
From Europe? Where is the nearest repair center? Somewhere around half the world in Asia? And maybe some day Uni-T will even provide the information on their web site that they have repair centers at all. And heaven forbid, maybe some day they they will manage to even provide their location and contact information.
But as long as they don't tell their users that they have these repair centers, they aren't of much use.
So they end up with pissed users who have no reasonable means to sort out an issue with a Uni-T product. And that is not the fault of the user.
(But heaven forbid you suggest that people should not buy their unsupported, unsafe stuff ...)
UNI-T has partners in Europe (Conrad) and in the States (Tenma) with local warranty and repair centers.
Instead of buying from these companies, most people go for the cheap option of buying directly from online sellers in China, often with no warranty at all and then complain when something goes awry.
Regardless, all the UNI-T contact information is on their site, on the multimeter box, the DMM manual and the warranty card.
They are very responsive and will advise you on the best course of action within a few days.
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The BM257 is a better contender, but for the 6000 count, with no high res mode. If there is nothing else with a higher count, that one should do.
I don't think Brymen have another suitable higher count meter near the $100 mark.
The BM257 is about US$110 in EU conversion:
http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/digital-multimeters_112609/#id_category=112609&s_field=artykul&s_order=ASC&visible_params=2%2C1785%2C1786%2C1787%2C1799%2C55%2C1790%2C72%2C1794%2C1747%2C1796%2C1803%2C845&used_params=2%3A45315%3B (http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/digital-multimeters_112609/#id_category=112609&s_field=artykul&s_order=ASC&visible_params=2%2C1785%2C1786%2C1787%2C1799%2C55%2C1790%2C72%2C1794%2C1747%2C1796%2C1803%2C845&used_params=2%3A45315%3B)
(good price comparison list)
But really, the $100 price category I think is not about the best accuracy or count for the price, but more about the best safety and build quality, and a few extra features features. i.e. that "step up" from the $50 cheapies.
Dave.
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Given the underrated fuses vs. CAT ratings that have been seen, do you think the UL compliance testing claims are genuine?
Brymen have been in the game a long time, and make reputable (albeit low cost) meters. If they stamp US UL listed on the front, then yes, I'd trust that they have sent it to UL and it been tested and has passed that claimed ratings.
Dave.
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So the current $100 list is looking like:
- Fluke 17 AU$102 (because it's a Fluke)
- Uni-T UT71A AU$109 (the wizz-bang multi display 20,000 count, USB etc)
- Brymen BM257 AU$129 (solid, small, UL listed, good brand meter)
As definites.
- Amprobe AM-270 AU$127 (but it's just a rebadged and repackaged Brymen BM815)
- Slot open? An Extech? or other brand?
Dave.
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An Extech would make sense, an EX430 perhaps (4000 count True RMS)?
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Any BK-precision? Or something less known? Like Benning (I discover this searching ebay.de) or so.
http://de.benning.de/en/corporate/products-services/testing-measuring-and-safety-instruments.html (http://de.benning.de/en/corporate/products-services/testing-measuring-and-safety-instruments.html)
Alexander.
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- Slot open? An Extech? or other brand?
This one retails for only 129$ and has pretty impressive specs...
http://www.nsiteck.com/tes-prova-801-803-digital-multi-meter.html (http://www.nsiteck.com/tes-prova-801-803-digital-multi-meter.html)
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I'd go for the BM257.
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This one retails for only 129$ and has pretty impressive specs...
http://www.nsiteck.com/tes-prova-801-803-digital-multi-meter.html (http://www.nsiteck.com/tes-prova-801-803-digital-multi-meter.html)
That one is $260 on ebay from Hong Kong. What's up with the $129 price? sounds too good to be true...
Dave.
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It is little bit pity that Agilent U1231A don’t have mA range like you said Dave, I was looking for a Agilent for my collection and a lower priced one was a good to start with.
I got little bad taste of Extech after what I have seen with the meters I got from them, but maybe Dave can change that with a new one.
Maybe a brand which people see as junk and need to prove itself like Mastech?
Mastech MS8218
Or Mastech-MS8228
http://www.getprice.com.au/Mastech-MS8228-Autorange-Digital-With-Back-Light-Gpnc_501--67649965.htm (http://www.getprice.com.au/Mastech-MS8228-Autorange-Digital-With-Back-Light-Gpnc_501--67649965.htm)
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The Brymens have arrived.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCiRmsoCMAE88rh.jpg:large)
https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/299648739138732032/photo/1
and I present to you, a nomination for the worst backlight in history
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCiSbY8CMAAGMDZ.jpg:large)
Dave.
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Well, glow worms are really energy efficient.
Not sure what they feed on though...green solder mask?
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The Brymens have arrived.
and I present to you, a nomination for the worst backlight in history
Isn’t it hideous? That’s first thing I thought when I saw those on my rebadged Brymen. Those 4 lights give some depth in dark it is really weird to see and the digits fade because of it.
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Where is the UT71A? :-//
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The UT71A is shaking in the corner......
Seriously, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Brymens. I can already see a big "FAIL" coming for that BM857 at some point :)
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NOT SHAKING...JUST WARMING UP FOR THE FIGHT! %-B
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Backlight on the BM857A is rather poor, but the viewing angle is also fairly limited. So if you're looking at it sideways, forget it.
FWIW, another thing to be careful with, is the fuses don't meet the CAT ratings in mine (CAT is 600V, and they used 500V fuses). Not the end of the world, and they can be upgraded with the correct fuses (just need the correct fuse clips soldered in). Rebranded versions may not have this issue (IIRC, the Extech MM560A comes with 600V fuses, which I presume was per Extech's request).
-
Any Amprobe on the list? Eg AM-270.
Alexander.
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Any Amprobe on the list? Eg AM-270.
Alexander.
So the current $100 list is looking like:
- Fluke 17 AU$102 (because it's a Fluke)
- Uni-T UT71A AU$109 (the wizz-bang multi display 20,000 count, USB etc)
- Brymen BM257 AU$129 (solid, small, UL listed, good brand meter)
As definites.
- Amprobe AM-270 AU$127 (but it's just a rebadged and repackaged Brymen BM815)
- Slot open? An Extech? or other brand?
Dave.
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Hey Dave, if you're doing another ~$100 shootout, how about the Extech ex430?
edit: seems like I'm a page late. :P
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Will be any sub 50$ shootout? Thanks :)
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Will be any sub 50$ shootout? Thanks :)
Nope, they aren't worth arguing over.
Dave.
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The UT71A is on the way.
Still looking for some others.
The Mastech MS8228 seems like a choice for a "cheapie" in terms of specs, paying for the wanky IR thermometer obviously.
Dave.
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So which meters exactly can we expect to see in the new shootout? Would you be interested to have a look at the Brymen BM-521? It belongs in the $200+ price range. I'm happy to send you one for review/shootout if you are interested (and have the time for it).
The UT71A is on the way.
Still looking for some others.
The Mastech MS8228 seems like a choice for a "cheapie" in terms of specs, paying for the wanky IR thermometer obviously.
Dave.
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You want two more Dave?
You got most big players at the moment, Agilent doesn’t have one in that price range with mA range as we said before.
Extech, you cover that with Brymen any other rebadged CEM is at the moment doing bad because of the craftsmanship but can be proved wrong of course if you have a good one in your hands.
You are right about my suggestion with Mastech MS8228, it does look cheap but you never know, I am still eager to see a meter with a build in IR after my Extech EX570 fiasco but it is a lot more than 100 dollar range, and if I am only one, that won’t be fair to other guys with their suggestions earlier in the topic.
What other good brands are left? UEI and Sanwa maybe :-//
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sanwa pc5000, sanwa pc7000
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Yeah, you could include the Mastech MS8228, and maybe a KYORITSU KEW1011. I bet no one has seen the insides of one of those. I am pretty sure this one is not worth looking at but there is also a TPI 163 for around $100.
Maybe the TPI 194 is worth looking at in the $200+ range.
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maybe a KYORITSU KEW1011. I bet no one has seen the insides of one of those.
The outside case sure looks like the Elenco M-2625 that Dave reviewed in the $50 shootout. The Tekpower TP4000ZC also looks similar which Martin reviewed.
Obviously the specs and features are different between the 3, but I wonder what ODM/OEM relationship might exist when the outside case/buttons have similarities.
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hi dave
i'm recently looking at this uni-t meter http://www.goodluckbuy.com/uni-t-ut70d-modern-digital-multi-purpose-meters-.html (http://www.goodluckbuy.com/uni-t-ut70d-modern-digital-multi-purpose-meters-.html)
80.000 count for 130$, or ut70c is 40.000 for 110$... there's a topic on it
also, this mastech meter looks pretty rugged http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mastech-ms8229-5-in-1-autorange-digital-multimeter-with-alarm.html (http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mastech-ms8229-5-in-1-autorange-digital-multimeter-with-alarm.html)
and, finally, two mastech identical to uni-t ut61e http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mastech-ms8226t-true-rms-auto-ranging-dmm-digital-multimeter.html (http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mastech-ms8226t-true-rms-auto-ranging-dmm-digital-multimeter.html) http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mastech-ms8226-digital-multimeters.html (http://www.goodluckbuy.com/mastech-ms8226-digital-multimeters.html)
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So which meters exactly can we expect to see in the new shootout?
The list has been posted:
- Fluke 17 AU$102 (because it's a Fluke)
- Uni-T UT71A AU$109 (the wizz-bang multi display 20,000 count, USB etc)
- Brymen BM257 AU$129 (solid, small, UL listed, good brand meter)
As definites.
Now maybe Mastech MS8228
And I need one or two other choices.
Dave.
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What about to test leads with an insulation tester?
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Amprobe AM-270 would be nice. Brymen is not easy to get.
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Actually the Brymen BM257 is VERY easy to get. Just contact iloveelectronics here on the forum and it will be shipped to you for $135 including shipping.
I would also like to see the Amprobe AM-270 included but Dave does not want to do another re-branded Brymen against the BM257 in the shootout. The AM-270 is less expensive and has better specs but is only easily available to the US or from a retailer that ships world wide from the US for $40 for so in shipping.
I really would like to see that KYORITSU KEW1011 included as it is not very well known in our circles here.
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Shouldn't an Extech or CEM be part of the line-up?
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Or should you say "shouldn't an Extech or CEM fall apart in the lineup?" :D
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Or should you say "shouldn't an Extech or CEM fall apart in the lineup?" :D
:-DD man that was good hahaha!
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Well, if that is the way the cookie crumbles, so be it. At least, they would have had a fighting chance to redeem themselves.
Based on my own experience with CEM, I don't have much hope. >:(
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Shouldn't an Extech or CEM be part of the line-up?
Why not, which one?
Dave.
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Amprobe AM-270 would be nice. Brymen is not easy to get.
Although the Amprobe is just a re-badged Brymen BM817, maybe it makes sense to include it because it is actually another major brand, and does fit into the line-up nicely in terms of bang-per-buck and availability?
It's getting slim picking now...
Dave.
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Shouldn't an Extech or CEM be part of the line-up?
Why not, which one?
Dave.
This one seems to fit the bill: CEM DT9927T 6000 count, True RMS.
There is also a similar 9938T 22,000 count True RMS, but it could be too expensive though.
(http://www.cem-instruments.com/en/UploadFile/20101118103628298.jpg)
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This one seems to fit the bill: CEM DT9927T 6000 count, True RMS.
There is also a similar 9938T 22,000 count True RMS, but it could be too expensive though.
That looks hard to get.
It's also an Extech EX520, but that's about $150 or so. The Extech 400 series is more in the price bracket.
Dave.
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Wow, so expensive. The Extech 430 has the required features and fits in the price bracket too, I think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extech-Professional-Multimeter-Model-EX430-/290812487061?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b5c66595 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Extech-Professional-Multimeter-Model-EX430-/290812487061?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b5c66595)
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We have already seen Extechs twice, once in the $50 and once in the $100 shootouts. Extech/CEM/Majortech have been reviewed many times on this forum and on mjlorton's and have always disappointed except for the one EX330 Dave reviewed in the $50 shootout. Let's have something different like the KYORITSU KEW1011. It is available at tme.eu, and at storeinifinity.com for around $100.
IMHO including an Extech again seems to validate their existence and excludes other possible candidates.
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I was checking test equipment depot's site after today's video (with the hp bench dmm) and noticed a few that might fit the 100$ category
(http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/sperry-instruments/images/dm6650t.gif)
Sperry DM6650T True RMS 10 Function Digital Multimeter 108$
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/sperry-instruments/multimeters/dm6650t.htm (http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/sperry-instruments/multimeters/dm6650t.htm)
This one I also see it's at walmart and sears and amazon and doesn't look that great with only 4000 count and 0.8% precision on dc v for example
(http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/megger/images/avo410.jpg)
Megger AVO410 True RMS Digital Multimeter 128$
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/megger/multimeters/avo410.htm (http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/megger/multimeters/avo410.htm)
A bit expensive but looks like it has nice probes, isolated serial out, cat iv 600v, 6000 counts BUT worringly only 1.5 updates per second
(http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hioki/images/3256-50.jpg)
Hioki 3256-50 150$
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hioki/multimeters/3256.htm (http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/hioki/multimeters/3256.htm)
even more expensive but apparently industrial grade, has locking mechanism for current
Have you tried contacting companies like TED (short for the one I linked) to see if they'd be willing to give you a few for review?
I understand you want a limited number of meters because you don't have as much time as before.
If it's also an issue of money, have you considered something like asking people to donate small amounts of money and then pick a person's name from a hat and give one of the meters to that person?
I'd be happy to give about $10 - with 15 people you have the price of a meter incl. the shipping.
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The Sperry is custom made by UNI-T to Sperry's lowly specifications, using a UT-71 shell. 4000 count only.
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The Megger looks suspiciously like an IDEAL?
Dave.
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*wrong post
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The Sperry is custom made by UNI-T to Sperry's lowly specifications, using a UT-71 shell. 4000 count only.
Correct. I had the Sperry 6600 (the non True RMS version) and it was clearly made by Uni-T. I think I might have a photo of the internals somewhere.
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The Megger looks suspiciously like an IDEAL?
It is an Appa 70. One of your former members is scheduled to do a review on it.
http://www.appatech.com/appa_product_home.php?pdid=2005102401295373290&&kindid=2005081003113623241 (http://www.appatech.com/appa_product_home.php?pdid=2005102401295373290&&kindid=2005081003113623241)
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Here is a UNI-T 71B for AU$110.00 in Sydney. Has better features, like temperature measurement, internal data logging (100 points), higher accuracy and 4-20mA loop, for the same price as the A model Dave will be reviewing.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNI-T-UT71B-Intelligent-Digital-Multimeter-2-PC-USB-Data-Logging-/170988797862?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D5761233466389153429%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D5%26sd%3D130743143940%26 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNI-T-UT71B-Intelligent-Digital-Multimeter-2-PC-USB-Data-Logging-/170988797862?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D5761233466389153429%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D5%26sd%3D130743143940%26)
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Dave,
Since many USA viewers can get an used Fluke 87 (original) for about $100 on ebay, would you consider adding it to the new $100 shootout? It would be interesting to see if 20 year technology can compete with the new offerings?
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Don't look like a good idea..."let's add a 6.5 digit bench meter, i've paid it only 150 buck!"
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Hey,
Maybe it's too late and you have already begun the testing, but I think that it would be worthwhile to add the winner from the previous shootout to your comparison (BK Precision 2709B). That way, you are in essence comparing 11 meters (assuming that in this shootout, you would test 5 new meters and the winner from the last shootout). This seems like it would provide a good reference. You know?
Kevin
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Technically, if you only test 5 new fresh meters, that doesn't really tell us how they stack up against the last set of meters that you tested. Should you test only new meters, the winner (say an Acme M1A) could have actually fallen in 2nd or 3rd place had it been pitted against the set from the last shootout. Put the BK Precision model in there, and then your NEW favorite (be it the old BK Precision model or the Acme M1A) would tell us a bit more information while not adding a whole lot more work on your end. Seem reasonable?
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That is a good idea IMHO :-+
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This one retails for only 129$ and has pretty impressive specs...
http://www.nsiteck.com/tes-prova-801-803-digital-multi-meter.html (http://www.nsiteck.com/tes-prova-801-803-digital-multi-meter.html)
That one is $260 on ebay from Hong Kong. What's up with the $129 price? sounds too good to be true...
Dave.
Sounds like an interesting one and it is based in
NSIteck
PO Box 6002
Wellesley Street
Auckland 1141
New Zealand
So It can't be that bad, ships over 200 countries they say, although I have not seen their shipping rates.
Even at 260 with the dual measurement it is not that bad of a price.
I take back what i said ... us$ prices for a company in New Zealand and the fact that:
Registrant Contact Details:
NSI Inc. LTD.
Peter Zhuo Peng ()
13 Qinyuan Rd., Tianxin,
Changsha
Hunan,410004
CN
Tel. +86.13908456013
although it has been registered in 2011 still sounds fishy to me
Anybody wants to pass by their place?
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Dave:
Any chance of the shootout still?
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Any chance of the shootout still?
Yeah, just need to decide on and get another meter or two.
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Totally need a high end shootout, something that few people can afford (the shootout, not the meters).
Would love to see what meter will be king of handhelds. <400$ USD/CAD, and the unlimited budget shootout.
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maiby a little snack like a better teardown of a brymen multimeter should be nice.
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What about the Protek 608? Tequipment is pushing them as the US$139 replacement for a number of meters that are no longer available... maybe too high priced for a $100 shootout, but still worth a look I'd think.
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I thought too that the Protek 608 might be a great buy, especially when they had the price lower, around $125 if I remember. After looking at the specs a bit more it still might be a good meter but....
It appears to be around 10 years old. It also is only rated CATII ! The weird bar graph almost looks useless and the update rate is 2 per second. Maybe for a bench meter it might be OK, but for its update rate really would be a pain. It also has RS232 included but who knows if the software works natively in Win7 or not, maybe in XP mode.
I think it too old and too high a price to be used in a comparison.
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I was checking test equipment depot's site after today's video (with the hp bench dmm) and noticed a few that might fit the 100$ category
(http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/sperry-instruments/images/dm6650t.gif)
Sperry DM6650T True RMS 10 Function Digital Multimeter 108$
This thread ain't dead yet!
That one looks ok.
Any other $100 meters popped up since last time?
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Dave:
As mentioned here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/suggestions/is-it-not-time-for-another-multimeter-shootout-yet/msg194082/#msg194082 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/suggestions/is-it-not-time-for-another-multimeter-shootout-yet/msg194082/#msg194082)
This is a made by Uni-T for Sperry and has lower specs than the UT71A which can be had online for $114 shipped. The UT71A also has a PC cable and software included and also has much better specs.
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NO :scared: Please not another multimeter shoot out :scared: :scared: :scared: :palm:
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You don't have to watch it!
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The UT71B can be had for 119$ shipped now. Much better specs than the A model, which goes for 107$ shipped.
If you're looking for another one, the CEM DT9928 might be worth a look at, 105$ delivered.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-9928-Professional-Digital-Multimeters-New-22-000-counts-RMS-AC-Voltage-/310684120432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4856377570 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-9928-Professional-Digital-Multimeters-New-22-000-counts-RMS-AC-Voltage-/310684120432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4856377570)
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What about the Brymen BM257? I love how tiny it is compared to most meters. :P
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I would like to see a teardown/review of the latest (I believe it is the latest) Agilent multimeter U1233A (also U1231 and U1232).
I have tried it out a bit myself and compared it to the two other DMMs that Agilent has (and also to the Fluke 179 i use most often):
-Cheaper than the others, but does not have the same precision and functionality.
-The rotary selector knob can not touch the ground if dropped (the rubber on the edges of the meter protects it.
-The continuity mode is faster and has both audio and flashing light (but still not as good as Fluke)
-The start-up melody can be turned off without turning of all beeps! :)
-It has built in flashlight
-It has built in non-contact voltage detection (like those small voltage pens)
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So which meters exactly can we expect to see in the new shootout?
The list has been posted:
- Fluke 17 AU$102 (because it's a Fluke)
- Uni-T UT71A AU$109 (the wizz-bang multi display 20,000 count, USB etc)
- Brymen BM257 AU$129 (solid, small, UL listed, good brand meter)
As definites.
Now maybe Mastech MS8228
And I need one or two other choices.
Dave.
What about the new UNI-T UT139C True RMS?
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What about the new UNI-T UT139C True RMS?
Looks interesting. Though if it's a $100-range shootout, this one's half the price. But wouldn't it be nice if it were just as good? :)
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Hi there, I'm brand new here and was really looking forward to seeing this test! I've had way too many cheap mm and my current one is its death throws.. Was looking forward to a relatively unbiased view on the UNI-T UT71A by Dave (or anyone) as its in the price range (AU$134 off http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131064894151?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131064894151?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
I'm looking for something thats going to last, I'm really a complete hobbyist, many use the mm for continuity and 12v finding in the car :)
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The UT71 series are not good meters when it comes to continuity testing. The continuity test signal is latched but much slower than the average meter out there. Apart from that quirk, it would be fine for low power electronic work, but even then, the 71B is a more capable meter, at little extra cost.
If you need something long lasting, with a fast continuity test and some basic features, look somewhere else, like the new Fluke 101 for instance.
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I ended up going for Wytnucls (thankyou) advice and went the Fluke route, though I went for the 17B as I am always one to get a tool that is above my capabilities as I am always interested in learning new stuff. (I have played around with electronics kits, so this might give me a good excuse to explore further)
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What's the list of must-have features for a DMM to make the cut to get into the $100 shootout? Is it just the price? That's a pretty low bar.
I guess it depends on how many viewers are repeat viewers, but since the BK2709b was in the top in the previous shootout it may be interesting to include the BK again as a benchmark if for no other reason.
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As an idea for $100 shootout: treat a couple sub $50 multimeters as one sub $100 multimeter.
For example, UT61E + UT139C complement each other. UT61E has better resolution/claimed accuracy, PC connection, bargraph. UT139C has temperature, NCV, Max/Min.
Could UT139C+UT61E be competitive to single $100 multimeter?
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Wow... I went back and watched the old multimeter shootout. Episode #99.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-_dUB8vy8U&index=2&list=PL4F0B97C59B1D2509 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-_dUB8vy8U&index=2&list=PL4F0B97C59B1D2509)
Sure was fun to watch a video from back in the garage days.
It really IS TIME for another shootout I think.
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FYI, I have been slowly collecting pocket multimeters for that shootout.
The problem with price based shootouts is just that, price.
Is it fair to compare a $70 meter to a $130 meter?
How much buffer do you put around that "price point"?
The price point in which country?
I'm leaning toward, like I am with the pocket meter shootout (it must fit in a shirt pocket & have attached leads, and be in some case or wallet), that it's simply better the group based on similar functionality, and be damned the price?
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Functionality over price.
Perhaps not really shootout material but.
- DC clamps maybe
- A comedy featuring transistor testers in DMMs
- I've always found the bare board esr meters interesting (cheap on ebay)
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Oh yes, do the big comparison first.
And then sell on ebay all the meters, and include the auction prices as part of the results.
Surely, those meters that are well thought of will attract the better prices.
This is not a measure of selling for profit, more an indication of how desirable the meter is
in the minds of other people.
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I would base the shoot-out loosely on price, with one meter from the most popular brands and the occasional worthwhile outsider for fun.
In the most popular 100$ request:
1. Brymen 257 ($135)
2. UNI-T UT139C (60$) or UT71C ($130)
3. Fluke 115 ($140)
4. Amprobe AM570 ($110)
5. BK Precision 2712 ($115)
Outsiders:
Vichy VC87 ($90)
Fluke 8060A ($100)
In the next most popular request ($200):
1. Brymen 867 ($220)
2. Agilent U1233A ($210)
3. BK Precision 393 ($220)
4. UNI-T 171B ($200)
5. Hioki 3805-50 or Sanwa PC773 ($230)
6. Extech EX570 ($200)
Outsiders:
Mastech 8218 ($200)
Rishabh 18S ($200)
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As an idea for $100 shootout: treat a couple sub $50 multimeters as one sub $100 multimeter.
For example, UT61E + UT139C complement each other. UT61E has better resolution/claimed accuracy, PC connection, bargraph. UT139C has temperature, NCV, Max/Min.
Could UT139C+UT61E be competitive to single $100 multimeter?
UT61E also has max min, but it's called "PEAK" pmax pmin on the meter, same thing. But in addiction to UT61 meters UT139C has MAX-MIN mode, that is MIN subtracted from MAX, might be useful for something.
Having used UT139C I wouldn't put much if any value on having NCV, in my opinion it's way too sensitive for all kinds of fields. I actually went and got cheapest non contact volt meter pen from the store, it was 5€ and it can light led on which europlug hole is the live one. First pen I got didn't work a real piece of crap, even tried another battery, went to the store and got it exchanged and they even let me test the new was functional. Of course a meter is way too big to show anything with such accuracy, but UT139C picks up fields from all over the place. For example just measured full bars 80mm from my computer display that has ccfl backlight. If I bring my hand to closer to the meters sensor it will drop to 2 bars. A real non contact voltage pen doesn't react to display in any way. Also UT139C seems to pick up voltages from just simple metal surfaces around the room. UT139C thinks my headphone cable while only connected to computer has 4 bars worth of voltage, and I'm not even playing anything through the headphones can even disconnect and leave only the cable and it still thinks there is big voltages on the cable. Real cheapo voltage pen doesn't show anything for the headphone cable. Or maybe the unit I received is faulty and I opened mine and posted some pictures so it doesn't even have warranty anymore, or maybe it never had warranty since I bought it ebay china. I wouldn't advice anyone to trust their lives on UT139C NCV function, it's flaky and unreliable. If properly used a cheap non contact voltage pen might be something to rely on.
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Wow... I went back and watched the old multimeter shootout. Episode #99.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-_dUB8vy8U&index=2&list=PL4F0B97C59B1D2509 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-_dUB8vy8U&index=2&list=PL4F0B97C59B1D2509)
Sure was fun to watch a video from back in the garage days.
It really IS TIME for another shootout I think.
It should have been episode #100 ;-).
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There are significant differences between Peak Hold and Max Min functions.
Peak Hold is meant to be used with AC voltage and current only, displaying peak instead of RMS values, taking the DC offset into account. Sampling interval is high at 100uS.
Max Min works with any measurements, with a lower sampling interval of about 2 seconds. In AC voltage or current mode, it will display max and min RMS values.
The 61E has to be modified to be able to display Max Min values.
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The price point in which country?
AUS: makes your work easier and anybody with a half passing interest can do the conversions themselves.
Don't be too nice to your users, most of us have a nice thick skin and we can take a bit of the old roughing up.
We don't come here to get flowers from Dave, but for his lovely natural abrasion.
Whiners make a lot of noise but are ultimately a minority.
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I think USD is what the price should be listed in. Let everyone else convert to local currencies.
That $135 brymen is now closer to $166 au since au no longer at parity.
I have friends who love their $10 hobby king (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__44666__Turnigy_870E_Digital_Multimeter_w_Backlit_Display_AUS_Warehouse_.html) dmm.
If it breaks/lost they have a spare in the draw.
Who is this shoot out catering to? First time buyers, or people with their $10 meter looking to step up.
Where is the value add coming from? What does $150 more buy me? What will warrant me paying more.
1. How many hobbyist will go near 240v?
2. Better continuity
3. Accuracy
4. display readability
5. update rate
I was keen for a Brymen, but I think I be better off with a Der 5000 & cheapo uni-t for electronics work.
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I'm a hobbyist, but I also have a house and in Europe 240 is the norm.
So right now I have a UT61b that sees a lot of mains work...
Dual use stuff is also much easier to get greenlighted by my spouse :)
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I almost bought the BK Precision 2709B after watching the $100 shootout then i realized it's a 4 year old video :phew:. Can't wait for this new shootout :-\