Author Topic: Advice about oscilloscope to buy. (Read 35047 times)

Blisk · « **on:** October 16, 2016, 07:36:22 pm »

rstofer · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2016, 09:47:52 pm »

That's quite a shopping list. I suggest you make a spreadsheet with rows for features and columns for scopes. Rank the rows by importance to you so that important features get more weight. Price needs to be considered as well.

As none of those scopes interest me, I'm no help in the selection. I bought a Rigol DS1054Z and it does more than I will ever need. OTOH, Your needs appear to exceed mine so it is right that you should look at more expensive scopes.

I wouldn't consider anything with less than 4 channels or less than 100 MHz plus serial decoding. More memory is a good thing too. So, for me, the hacked DS1054Z fills the needs without breaking the bank. I'll hold onto my 350 MHz Tek 485 just in case!

nctnico · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2016, 10:14:18 pm »

I'd take the Owon, Hantek, Uni-t, Subay(?), Protek and Siglent scopes off the list to begin with because they are probably too buggy anyway. I see a TDS220 from Tektronix as well but that model is crap ($600 in 'for parts' condition?? utter nutter!!).
I'd go for at least 4 channels. If you don't care about protocol decoding there are many second hand scopes from Agilent, Lecroy and Tektronix on Ebay which have decent specifications while being affordable. What is the budget?

tautech · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2016, 12:58:04 am »

Quote from: Blisk on October 16, 2016, 07:36:22 pm

Hi
I see here are alot of experts with alot of experiences about osciloscopes.
I use now some small osciloscope for 200$ and I will like to buy new one more powerfull.
So I am looking something like below.
But don't know which brand to buy and which have new technology and it is fast enough.
I hope I can give some advice here which one to buy.
Thank you.
Sorry for messy post.

Welcome to the forum.

Nothing wrong with your post at all, in fact it's refreshing to see somebody come aboard that's done some research as to what's available.
Better still you've wisely set your sights on a DSO with 100 MHz BW.

If you've been watching threads like these you'll have seen all sorts of opinions on what's best and what to keep clear of by some that are not up to date with the latest models. This field of entry level DSO's are forever advancing, new models and ongoing upgrades to performance so don't take anybody's word based on historical experiences.

The Siglent SDS1102X-S is no longer produced, the S denotes inbuilt AWG and this and MSO have been incorporated into a newer version, the Siglent SDS1102X+.

The Subay Technologies SDS1102X is a Siglent, the baby brother of above but without AWG and MSO and you can see the all the specs, manuals and pricing in the link below.
And as you're in Europe, Siglent are running a promotion on these with the Decoding option free.
http://www.siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=2373&T=2&tid=1
Your local distributor is listed here:
http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx

2N3055 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2016, 07:41:44 am »

Siglent, Rigol and others have presence in EU..
And prices are OK , EU warranty, no import procedure...

tggzzz · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2016, 08:03:06 am »

Congratulations on doing some research before asking a question. That makes a pleasant change, and will help you get relevant helpful responses.

Quote from: Blisk on October 16, 2016, 07:36:22 pm

I use now some small osciloscope for 200$ and I will like to buy new one more powerfull.
But don't know which brand to buy and which have new technology and it is fast enough.

What is inadequate about your existing scope?

Examples: number of channels, analogue/digital post-processing, transient capture, connectivity, ...

"Fast enough" for what purpose?

For example, if you are interested in digital signal integrity then 100MHz is barely adequate for 1980s logic families, and is insufficient for modern logic families. A 300/400MHz scope would be far more useful.

Don't forget to include the cost of probes with suitable probe tip accessories; with a 6"/150mm ground lead, most simple *10 probes will ring at ~90MHz i.e. inside the measurement system bandwidth.

BravoV · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2016, 08:19:27 am »

Quote from: Blisk on October 16, 2016, 07:36:22 pm

I use now some small osciloscope for 200$ and I will like to buy new one more powerfull.

Same lack of crucial information that always happened to a thread like this asking for new scope recommendation.

Give us the max budget, once given, I believe nice people around here will quick to come out with optimal suggestions based on the money that you're willing to spend.

Money 1st, then talk features, capabilities, score and etc.

Blisk · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2016, 08:26:27 am »

Yes I see now.
My budged is about 900$.
My current oscilloscope can't be used on frequencies over 10Mhz I used now frequency divider.
I have measured now some modulated signal and get some strange results than I measured that on friends profi oscilloscope he payed for that 2500€
and was differend result of signal more stable and more readable.

tggzzz · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2016, 08:59:40 am »

If you are "measuring a modulated signal", are you sure an oscilloscope is the best tool? A lot will depend on the frequencies and what aspect of the signal you are measuring. If you previously used a "frequency divider", are you just measuring the mean frequency? If so, why not just use a frequency counter?

Check scopes' linearity specifications, and consider using "RF tools" such as spectrum analysers, modulation domain analysers, etc. Note the aphorism in my .sig!

sergioag · « **Reply #9 on:** October 18, 2016, 12:09:02 am »

Not on your list, but let me suggest a Rigol DS1054Z or a Rigol DS2072A. Both are kinda in your price range (specially the first one) and I'm sure both fit your needs. And you probably can hack them to get more bandwidth (up to 300MHz for the DS2072A) and options (i.e. decode).

Disclaimer: I own a Rigol DS2102A and I'm totally happy with it.

tautech · « **Reply #10 on:** October 18, 2016, 07:00:26 pm »

Quote from: Blisk on October 17, 2016, 08:26:27 am

Yes I see now.
My budged is about 900$.
My current oscilloscope can't be used on frequencies over 10Mhz I used now frequency divider.
I have measured now some modulated signal and get some strange results than I measured that on friends profi oscilloscope he payed for that 2500€
and was differend result of signal more stable and more readable.

Another look at this thread and your list we see you've included an ATTEN ADS1102CML , again the OEM is Siglent but this model has been upgraded with a higher resolution display and had LAN capability added.
http://www.siglenteu.com/pdxx.aspx?id=2346&T=2&tid=1

They're good entry level DSO's, I've sold many dozens of them and they are very reliable. Like all Siglent DSO's they have 400V rated channel inputs.....not all other brands do and as a result they require careful considered use when higher voltages are encountered.

How does your shortlist look now Blisk ?

pascal_sweden · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2016, 07:16:23 pm »

What would be the advantage of buying an OEM version of Siglent, instead of Siglent itself?

The only reason I can think of is local availability in an exotic country, where only the OEM version is available and not Siglent itself, but both in US and in Europe there is an official Siglent dealer.

So in US and Europe, buying the OEM version would only have disadvantages.
Siglent software updates might not work. Most likely they do, but you never know.

Maybe the OEM version is slightly cheaper, but probably it will not be a big difference.
And most of the time these OEM versions are very ugly. The labels on the scope have a background color that is too dark or too flashy. The color scheme in the UI looks awful. And many more disadvantages.

If you go for Siglent, then go for the original Siglent, and not for an OEM.
Better support, better looking, etc.

tautech · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2016, 07:25:33 pm »

Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 18, 2016, 07:16:23 pm

What would be the advantage of buying an OEM version of Siglent, instead of Siglent itself?

The only reason I can think of is local availability in an exotic country, where only the OEM version is available and not Siglent itself, but both in US and in Europe there is an official Siglent dealer.

So in US and Europe, buying the OEM version would only have disadvantages.
Siglent software updates might not work. Most likely they do, but you never know.

Maybe the OEM version is slightly cheaper, but probably it will not be a big difference.
And most of the time these OEM versions are very ugly. The labels on the scope have a background color that is too dark or too flashy. The color scheme in the UI looks awful. And many more disadvantages.

If you go for Siglent, then go for the original Siglent, and not for an OEM.
Better support, better looking, etc.

Pascal.
OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer.
Anything that is/looks similar is a rebrand.

Yes you are correct to say the original provides better support and as for FW updates, there are many examples of owners getting into serious trouble, even bricking their scope by not using the correct FW.
In general, OEM = better support.

pascal_sweden · « **Reply #13 on:** October 18, 2016, 08:44:47 pm »

Thanks for pointing out about OEM.
I know about the meaning, but must anyhow have misused that formulation for a longer time.

But you know, some companies make OEM products that are never sold under their own brand.
So in that case talking about a rebrand isn't a correct formulation either

Philips and Panasonic used to have camcorders in the eighties, which neither of them produced themselves. But the company that produced them, didn't sell these cameras themselves.
So in that case it was difficult to talk about these video cameras as OEM, or as rebrand

And what about the Windows CD's that come with Laptops. They call it OEM version, while the CD is labeled with Dell or HP

From a hardware perspective OEM is correct, but from a software perspective OEM is wrong, as Microsoft is the OEM for software and not Dell or HP =)
The original Microsoft Windows comes in a nice big box. The OEM Microsoft Windows comes in a paper sleeve.

H.O · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2016, 05:33:14 am »

Quote

Philips and Panasonic used to have camcorders in the eighties, which neither of them produced themselves. But the company that produced them, didn't sell these cameras themselves.
So in that case it was difficult to talk about these video cameras as OEM, or as rebrand

The cameras are not OEM, the company who manufactured the cameras is the OEM - the Original Equipment Manufacturer. I don't think it matters whether or not it's being sold under the OEMs own name or not, Philips still bought it from someone else and put their sticker on it. Philips is not the OEM, someone else is.

If that OEM is selling the same equipment (camera in this case) to several companies or exclusively to Philips doesn't really matter. The OEM is still the OEM while Philips is not.

And as for the Windows example, the "OEM version" is a version (by Microsoft) for OEMs (ie Dell, Lenovo, ASUS).

zapta · « **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2016, 02:37:20 pm »

Quote from: tautech on October 18, 2016, 07:00:26 pm

They're good entry level DSO's, I've sold many dozens of them and they are very reliable. Like all Siglent DSO's they have 400V rated channel inputs.....not all other brands do and as a result they require careful considered use when higher voltages are encountered.

Hi Blisk, since you are new here, a word of caution. Tautech does it often here, cherry picking features to push the brand he represents and discredit the competition. If I would you, I would pay more attention to opinions of independent users.

Good luck.

nctnico · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2016, 03:24:09 pm »

Indeed also look at maximum voltage RMS versus maximum voltage peak. All in all (most) 1M Ohm input scopes are designed to survive an encounter with 230V mains so Siglent isn't an exception or special.

tautech · « **Reply #17 on:** October 19, 2016, 05:01:22 pm »

Quote from: zapta on October 19, 2016, 02:37:20 pm

Quote from: tautech on October 18, 2016, 07:00:26 pm
They're good entry level DSO's, I've sold many dozens of them and they are very reliable. Like all Siglent DSO's they have 400V rated channel inputs.....not all other brands do and as a result they require careful considered use when higher voltages are encountered.

Hi Blisk, since you are new here, a word of caution. Tautech does it often here, cherry picking features to push the brand he represents and discredit the competition. If I would you, I would pay more attention to opinions of independent users.

Good luck.

And where in this thread have I done that ?
This thread started civil with a defined list of the OP's preferences....but with errors and misunderstandings as to current models and specs, shouldn't they be corrected ?

Knowledge to help the OP for his requirements is paramount, or should I withhold that ?

zapta · « **Reply #18 on:** October 19, 2016, 08:42:17 pm »

Quote from: tautech on October 19, 2016, 05:01:22 pm

Quote from: zapta on October 19, 2016, 02:37:20 pm
Quote from: tautech on October 18, 2016, 07:00:26 pm
They're good entry level DSO's, I've sold many dozens of them and they are very reliable. Like all Siglent DSO's they have 400V rated channel inputs.....not all other brands do and as a result they require careful considered use when higher voltages are encountered.

Hi Blisk, since you are new here, a word of caution. Tautech does it often here, cherry picking features to push the brand he represents and discredit the competition. If I would you, I would pay more attention to opinions of independent users.

Good luck.

And where in this thread have I done that ?

Check above. I quoted it in my post.

tautech · « **Reply #19 on:** October 20, 2016, 05:34:32 am »

Quote from: zapta on October 19, 2016, 08:42:17 pm

Quote from: tautech on October 19, 2016, 05:01:22 pm
Quote from: zapta on October 19, 2016, 02:37:20 pm
Quote from: tautech on October 18, 2016, 07:00:26 pm
They're good entry level DSO's, I've sold many dozens of them and they are very reliable. Like all Siglent DSO's they have 400V rated channel inputs.....not all other brands do and as a result they require careful considered use when higher voltages are encountered.

Hi Blisk, since you are new here, a word of caution. Tautech does it often here, cherry picking features to push the brand he represents and discredit the competition. If I would you, I would pay more attention to opinions of independent users.

Good luck.

And where in this thread have I done that ?

Check above. I quoted it in my post.

You are indeed a nit picker zapta.

Quote

They're good entry level DSO's, I've sold many dozens of them and they are very reliable.

Fact.

Quote

Like all Siglent DSO's they have 400V rated channel inputs....

Fact

Quote

not all other brands do and as a result they require careful considered use when higher voltages are encountered.

Fact

You may know all these things ^^^ just as I and many other members do, but does the OP ?
And why shouldn't he/she get the "heads up" ?

Yes, I do sell and use scopes as well as other "test equipment" and that doesn't qualify me to offer advice based on personal experience ?
You're joking right ?

pascal_sweden · « **Reply #20 on:** October 20, 2016, 09:38:00 am »

Tautech is just helping the OP with advice, that's all.

I highly appreciate his input on this forum, and I don't see it as pushing Siglent.

There is nothing wrong with being proud on a brand that you support and highlight its strengths.
We have plenty of people here that do this for A-brands all the time.

We should not just divide the world in Rigollers, Siglenters and Keigsighters.
Some people have both Rigol gear and Siglent gear, and maybe even some second hand Keysight gear.
There is no vendor that is best in all fields, in terms of feature set, price level.
The best lab setup, is the one that combines the best equipment from different vendors.

zapta · « **Reply #21 on:** October 20, 2016, 09:43:29 am »

Quote from: tautech on October 20, 2016, 05:34:32 am

Quote
not all other brands do and as a result they require careful considered use when higher voltages are encountered.
Fact

tautech, what part of cherry picking you don't understand?

Quote from: tautech on October 20, 2016, 05:34:32 am

Yes, I do sell and use scopes as well as other "test equipment" and that doesn't qualify me to offer advice based on personal experience ?
You're joking right ?

Coincidentally the unbiased opinion that you keep pushing aggressively in the T&M threads have a very high correlation with your financial interests.

Please take example from the more respective brands here such as the keysight guy. He is more respectful to the discussions here and doesn't paddle his pro-my-brand 'personal experience'. You and your brand are closer to pcbway spamming territory.

tautech, you are a vendor, not a regular opinionated user, so please act accordingly.

tggzzz · « **Reply #22 on:** October 20, 2016, 10:41:27 am »

Quote from: zapta on October 20, 2016, 09:43:29 am

Coincidentally the unbiased opinion that you keep pushing aggressively in the T&M threads have a very high correlation with your financial interests.

Please take example from the more respective brands here such as the keysight guy. He is more respectful to the discussions here and doesn't paddle his pro-my-brand 'personal experience'. You and your brand are closer to pcbway spamming territory.

tautech, you are a vendor, not a regular opinionated user, so please act accordingly.

This could be avoided if tautech made a statement on each relevant posting to the effect that "Ob disclosure: I am a user and distributor of X; that means I sell products that I use and trust".

ProBang2 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 20, 2016, 01:49:58 pm »

I don´t understand the reason for the fuss...
A siglent distibutor clearly recommends OWON oscilloscopes. So what?

And now? Back to topic (if there is any further interest)?

pascal_sweden · « **Reply #24 on:** October 20, 2016, 01:59:26 pm »

OP is looking for most Bang for Buck scope. Maybe ProBang2 can help out!

ProBang2ForBuck =)


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Author Topic: Advice about oscilloscope to buy. (Read 35047 times)

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