Advice on buying Multimeter in India

[arif_senpai]

Newbie here so please don't bash me. I am asking for genuine suggestions and advice.
I wish to purchase quality electronic equipment(like a multimeter immediately, power supply and oscilloscope maybe later). Let's just focus on multimeter for now.
I am pursuing Bachelors degree in Electronics and Telecommunication right now. I am super enthusiastic about electronics. I have worked on projects during school too. I wish to do more.
I have used the El-cheapo multimeters till now which have failed on me thrice now. I am just fed up now and looking for a functional but affordable meter.
Sadly, here in India they just don't sell much of good quality stuff related to electronics. This is the current dilemma I am in:

1. I don't want to buy from Chinese manufacturers like Aneng, UNI-T or Mastech etc. First of all they sell it expensive here. Secondly I don't trust sites like Banggood and Aliexpress (Ebay exists just for name sake) because of high shipping time and I am apprehensive. Just don't want to.

2. I am ready to buy the EEVBlog Brymen BM235. I love it. But my country hates me and quality products.
We have ridiculous custom duty and GST.
Custom duty for electronics : 21-23% for products costing less than $30(USD)
                                           41% for products costing greater than $30(USD)
Yes freaking 41%, or at least that is what I am destined to incur because of DHL delivery.
And that's not all. They enlist additional custom duty for no apparent reason.

State Government GST : 18%
Central Government GST : 18%

So on a product costing AUD 130, I will incur about AUD 100 at least in taxes, plus the AUD 36 for DHL shipping. You know where it is going.
My country hates me.

3. Now there are some distributors here in India which do sell brand name dmm, particularly Fluke and Brymen. But there are still problems.
I don't like Fluke (the so called affordable ones they make). Agree with me or not, they have terrible screen. Even UNI-T meters have better screen. The cheap ones also have lower accuracy and display count. Consider me nitpicky or whatever, but they being targeted towards electricians, don't suffice my needs for the money.
There's an Indian distributor of Brymen - Kusam Meco. Although expensive(again GSTs) they do sell them. But they don't sell the BM235 for some reason. They have BM257s but I don't want it. Again, there are many reasons for which one would choose BM235 over BM257s, I have done my research.
Keysight doesn't seem to have distributors so they start at USD 200 for the U1232A model. Extech ones are expensive too(the $50 one costs $90-100 here)

That wraps up my box of problems.

Please, I request you instead of bashing me like "Don't be nitpicky", "deal with it" or "keep using the el-cheapos for now", help me and provide your valuable suggestions and advice me how to deal with this problem, I'll appreciate that. Thank you.

PS: I hope you understood my budget from the meters I mentioned here, but still it's around INR 12000 or USD 180 (inclusive of all taxes and shipping) max 

[Fungus]

If you pay with credit card then Aliexpress has a lot of protection. The money isn't given to the seller until you accept the package and say "OK".

You can buy a BM235 direct from the Brymen store in Europe: https://brymen.eu/shop/bm235/

Even with your taxes I think it will be less than USD 180.

PS: You know you need more than 1 meter, right? Maybe you can manage a BM235 and a $20 ANENG from Aliexpress.

(I'd get the ANENG 860B+)

[arif_senpai]

I already checked on the European store website. Unfortunate for me, they don't ship to India. 

The USD 180 is not the problem. I would gladly buy the EEVBLog Brymen BM235 (that's the only one on which I can get international shipping anyway). As I said I love the meter, especially the feature found only on the new range - Visible Beeplight on continuity mode. Super useful for me.
But the thing is , for something that costs USD 100, I am paying more than USD 100 just for taxes.

Anyway, I guess international shopping is the only way to get a decent meter.

In regards to using credit card on Aliexpress, that is super useful information. I'll try with a credit card(gotta ask some friend, no one in my family uses credit card  )

Thanks a lot, have a good day.

[karkoon]

I built my small lab last year. I am from India as well.

I purchased HTC DM-97 for $20 from Amazon.

HTC Instrument DM-97 3 3/4 Digital Multimeter 4000 Counts, Capacitance, Frequency, Temperature https://www.amazon.in/dp/B013YPMLO0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_VWflBbPKC4QBQ

It is a nice meter. I am sure it is copy of a copy of a copy or something like that. But i found it to be very accurate for all my needs. I wanted to buy fluke in the range of 10-15k but couldn’t justify the cost.

I bought Aneng 8008 from AliExpress and with delivery it costed me $22 with shipping. What a nice little meter I must say. From reviews I realised that it is one hell of a accurate meter.

I also realised cheap vs expensive meters nowadays don’t differ in measurement accuracy but the quality of protection they offer. I almost exclusively committed to work with DC voltages less than 30V and 10A current. So I guess I am protected enough with the brands I purchased.

I will buy a good reputed meter if I chose to go in AC voltages of mains.

I almost bought all of my components, meters and oscilloscope from AliExpress. I used my credit card. Needed to dispute for two orders. One for signal generator and one for some replacement components. AliExpress resolves dispute quickly and got refund too. Just lost few weeks in waiting time for the order to arrive.

If you don’t mind you can check with seller and ask for expedited shipping. It arrives in less than four five days by DHL or FedexIE.

I am happy with AliExpress totally.

Also 2cents worth of advise. Buy a cheap meter. Spend money on a better oscilloscope. I find oscilloscope is one of the best thing to understand your signal.

S




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[Fungus]

Also 2cents worth of advise. Buy a cheap meter. Spend money on a better oscilloscope.

If you don't need safety then $20 can get you a very good meter these days.

Better to buy two (or three!) meters than one expensive one. That way you can compare readings (for confidence) and do things like measure voltage and current simultaneously.

I bought Aneng from AliExpress. What a nice little meter I must say. From reviews I realised that it is one hell of a accurate meter.

How do you know yours is accurate? Do you compare it to another meter or with a known voltage reference? 

I also realised cheap vs expensive meters nowadays don’t differ in measurement accuracy but the quality of protection they offer.

Correct.

(but also differences in features (bar graph?), durability, the quality of the leads, etc)

I almost exclusively committed to work with DC voltages less than 30V and 10A current. So I guess I am protected enough with the brands I purchased.

Yes. The amount of protection you need depends on what you work with.

[karkoon]

I bought Aneng from AliExpress. What a nice little meter I must say. From reviews I realised that it is one hell of a accurate meter.

How do you know yours is accurate? Do you compare it to another meter or with a known voltage reference? 

No, I don't have a voltage reference to check against. What I know is from Dave's review of Aneng meter. My cheap DM-97 and Oscilloscope (Siglent SDS-1202X-E) both agree with the voltage readings provided by my meter.



For my purposes, I can work with accuracy of +/- .1V in 0-30V range and I will be very fine!

Serves my purpose.

[Fungus]

I bought Aneng from AliExpress. What a nice little meter I must say. From reviews I realised that it is one hell of a accurate meter.

How do you know yours is accurate? Do you compare it to another meter or with a known voltage reference? 

No, I don't have a voltage reference to check against. What I know is from Dave's review of Aneng meter.

Yes, but that was Dave's meter, not your meter.

If all you have is one multimeter then how do you know it's correct? A lot of digits on screen isn't proof of anything.

My cheap DM-97 and Oscilloscope (Siglent SDS-1202X-E) both agree with the voltage readings provided by my meter.

OK, that's something. 

[arif_senpai]

I agree with Fungus. You at least got to have one decent multimeter.

The el-cheapos I mentioned failed in way that makes them unusable and unreliable. Every time after a week or so, they'll give me wrong readings. I almost threw away my Arduino Uno board because while troubleshooting it wasn't giving me any reading on half of the pins(yes exactly 50% of the pins). Gave it to my friend who next morning reported that his el-cheapo was giving reading on all the pins. The same things goes for resistors, most of the time it gave me an alternating resistance(like come on that thing ain't transistor) varying every second.

So it's not just about accuracy or protection, reliability matters. Also features matters a lot(I should have mentioned those in original post, sorry).
The visible beeplight in Brymens is super useful for me as my house is pretty noisy from so many family friends and relatives visiting. EF detection is super handy. Having a screen that refreshes at 4-5 times/s is also important. The Chinese usually sport an update rate of 2 times/s, and a few 3 times/s (which might be the minimum one would desire)

A UNI-T or Aneng as a second meter is alright though. Might get the UT139C.

As for now, I wish to buy a meter as soon as possible. I haven't touched a project since 4 months and my hands feel itchy    . Been researching for almost 1 month now. So right now I don't wish to wait for the Chinese site shipments( don't suggest DHL, that would defeat the purpose with all the taxes).

I have contacted the official distributors of Brymen in India for the BM235. No reply yet. I may need to get the EEVBlog one.

Thank you everyone for your valuable replies.

Also, hey karkoon could you let me now from where did you buy your oscilloscope from. Are there any official distributors in India?

[Raj]

• There's a list somewhere around in this website which lists all the good,safe multimeters along with how their beepers and screens perform
• There's nothing wrong with Chinese meters as long as it's a good brand (like vivo is for phones),except for the policies and human rights voilations.I'm happy with performance of my mastech meter,though I feel guilty owning it.
• Meco is a good company if you wanna go the 'swadeshi ' way.I own one.
• Ebay.com is your friend when trying to avoid taxes and costs.I literally have hundereds of orderd made there.(78 this year, 245 in previous three years) (I only had to requiest refunds for 4 products in previous five years,that too because Indian post lost those pachages somewhere)(orders not products.Order consists of multiple products.)
• Repair a phone or two (most likely,it'll literally take minutes),work part-time,then you'll have enough money for covering taxes and shipment.
  

It's not worth buying a cheap crappy meter for personal use (they are good enough for college) then switching to a new one.
I don't know what's wrong with the culture of my fellow people.In Canada, kids used to save upto 1200cad for buying their own laptops and they don't mind buying it from China.

I own MS8150A from ebay which I determined to be the absolute maximum of what a microcontroller using ,amplifier and sensing tools making hobbyist like me needs,with it's 1%-4% accuracy.I spent more on other tools like soldering irons,heat gun,air filters and wood,plastic,metal working tools.Your needs might be different.
Like there are meters out there,specially geared towards testing telephone systems.

The shippment bottlenecks isn't the Chinese posts,Its the indian posts.I've seen,if you pay 3$ extra for tracked shipping from china,things arrive in two weeks average.Also shipments seems to slow down during april to october.

[karkoon]

The el-cheapos I mentioned failed in way that makes them unusable and unreliable. Every time after a week or so, they'll give me wrong readings. I almost threw away my Arduino Uno board because while troubleshooting it wasn't giving me any reading on half of the pins(yes exactly 50% of the pins). Gave it to my friend who next morning reported that his el-cheapo was giving reading on all the pins. The same things goes for resistors, most of the time it gave me an alternating resistance(like come on that thing ain't transistor) varying every second.

I don't know about your accuracy needs or what your project requirements are. Since you mentioned in your original post that you are a newbie and engineering student, I can guess a thing or two.

You mentioned Arduino working and also your el-cheapo meters not working for a day or two. Are you talking about the absolute dirt cheap $2 meters you get anywhere like this? (http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/gallery/cen-tech-92020-dmm/)

If you are referring to those, I don't know about quality of those meters. But Aneng or Meco or UniT meters shouldn't fail on you that easily. In fact, I would check why your multimeters are failing so frequently on you. I had a similar multimeter before and it used to do an alright job.

I am using my Aneng and HTC DM-97 for about an year now. I tinker with basic electronics circuits (analog amplifiers, oscillators etc) and Arduino. I didn't have any complaints with them. Even the capacitor calculations, diode drop voltages etc, are very accurate (10mv precision).

So I don't have a huge complaint when it comes to their durability and accuracy. Reliability, I don't know if 1 year is good enough for you. For me, a $20 gadget working for a year or two, I wouldn't mind replacing that.

Also, based on your strong desire for BM235, I guess you made up your mind for buying it. Trust me, once you have locked your sights on a thing, many times we can't see positives of other options. (I am being judgmental but I am saying from my own experiences. I fall in that situation often too.) You can do what I do now - Go and buy that damn BM235 and focus on getting a circuit or two out. Don't sweat over it. If you want a practical advise - just buy an Aneng, Uni-T or Fluke and just get back to doing business.

And if you really want a quality product with reliability why not buy following?

https://www.amazon.in/Fluke-Multimeter-Calibration-Certificate-Warranty/dp/B07B3WCV34/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1529656829&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=fluke+multimeter&psc=1

It is Rs. 7850 (USD 115) with NIST calibration certificate. So you can trust that it is accurate. 4000 counts. Fluke is very reputable brand so I assume reliability and durability is going to much better than cheaper Chinesium products.

I also venture in photography, many times I feel that the lens in my hand is not doing a good job and taking bad pictures. If and only if I get that new lens with wider aperture, I will start making better pictures. Always and always it is me who doesn't use the full potential of the current camera and lenses. It is never the specific lens in my hand.

Just for your motivation (https://keepdevelopingprojects.wordpress.com) this is the blog of a guy who won R&S fully loaded oscilloscope from Dave. He didn't have an oscilloscope earlier. And he made tons of awesome projects. You can do a lot of things by not buying the most expensive and most elaborate things...

Please don't be offended by my comment. I am telling you as a friend who spent ton of money on things which were not absolute mandatory. Luckily I earn my own money and burn... so it is bad but not as bad as burning parents money.

Also, hey karkoon could you let me now from where did you buy your oscilloscope from. Are there any official distributors in India?

I bought it from AliExpress last May. I can't find my oscilloscope there anymore. You can still buy Hantek and Rigol on AliExpress.

I enquired in India related to this and there are two dealers to whom I contacted:

http://www.scientificindia.com/Test-Measuring-Instruments/Oscilloscopes.aspx

These guys brand Siglent oscilloscopes as their own. There is no difference in features etc. You also get support.

http://www.sweeyatech.com/oscilloscope.html

These claim to be official distributors of Siglent in India. I ordered my scope from AliExpress and shipping was FedexIE. I paid close to 27k for SDS-1202X-E. I got quote of 36k from Siglent distributor in Bangalore.

Now in hindsight, I would go and buy Rigol 1054z. Not because SDS-1202X-E is bad but Rigol has 4 channels and if you are working under 50Mhz (which I almost always do... even my signal generator is 25Mhz). You can get away with that bandwidth. Rigol can be hacked to 100Mhz, but I wouldn't count on it. The most important aspect for me between SDS-1202X-E and 1054z would be the sampling rate and it is same as 1G/s for both. So I am very comfortable with Rigol too! You can get that from AliExpress and after paying all the duties you will still save 5k at least.

Good luck!

[arif_senpai]

Sorry I don't quite understand how to quote yet. Excuse me.

I actually have been working mainly on analog projects like induction heating, oscillators, motors etc for the last 3 years. Only after joining college I have picked up Arduino and other micro controller based projects.

Yes I was working with the absolute el-cheapos because that's the only thing available in my neighborhood. Those things suck. My friend even managed to blow one off by mistakenly putting the dial on current measurement and checking 230V mains.

I know I have been mentioning the BM235 a lot. I like it's convenience features a lot for the affordable price, particularly input jack warning and visible beeplight on continuity.   

Actually I was previously stuck on Keysight U1232A. The problem is there is not official distributor here. I think digikey sells it but then the price is around INR 14000 (~USD 210) that too before shipping costs. I still wouldn't mind that but that thing doesn't do mA properly and the auto ranging is slower than some UNI-Ts. That is beyond ridiculous for the price.
I did find one seller on Flipkart who is selling it for INR 9000 (USD 133) under the "Agilent" brand but the seller has no ratings. Not even a website. Somehow found it's email address. But it's been a week and still no reply. That's some next level shadiness.

Fluke don't interest me a lot. They provide the bare minimum with no extra bells and whistle and usually have terrible screen(yeah I am the guy who invests more on the display than the graphic card driving it  display matters a lot ). But the model 17B+ I have not encountered it during my research. Seems pretty promising for the price. I'll watch some reviews and consider it. Thanks for the suggestion

I understand what you are trying to say. I too have been abiding to the quote by George Herbert:

"Do not wait; the time will never be 'just right.' Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your command, and better tools will be found as you go along."


But right now I feel utterly demotivated. I have ordered many discrete components and modules. I have so many ideas for projects.
One of my last projects was an LC oscillator with BJT. That project took a freaking month in troubleshooting. The meter was spewing out wrong voltage readings. I don't wish to waste my time anymore with the busy schedule of college.

By the way I too am into photography. I saved up a bit and got a cheap but decent point-and-shoot camera. So I do know how to make things work on budget.
My mom would happily get me a Fluke 87V. But I don't want her to spend since she's already paying college fee and even got me an expensive laptop. Since these are my savings, that's why I am a little tight on budget.

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I will look into the meters mentioned by you. And no I do not feel offended, in fact I feel more motivated   

[WhichEnt2]

How about find a seller who have product on hands (not on remote warehouse with employees) on ebay and convince him to lower the declared price?
I received a lot of parcels which been about $50 declared and really price of package contents should be 2 to 10 times more. You also can ask about "for parts or non working" note in description or whatever you need to avoid customs attention in your case.

[karkoon]

I actually have been working mainly on analog projects like induction heating, oscillators, motors etc for the last 3 years. Only after joining college I have picked up Arduino and other micro controller based projects.

But right now I feel utterly demotivated. I have ordered many discrete components and modules. I have so many ideas for projects.
One of my last projects was an LC oscillator with BJT. That project took a freaking month in troubleshooting. The meter was spewing out wrong voltage readings. I don't wish to waste my time anymore with the busy schedule of college.

Are you trying to check the oscillator output on a multimeter? I never did that. I use oscilloscope to see oscillator outputs.

My mom would happily get me a Fluke 87V. But I don't want her to spend since she's already paying college fee and even got me an expensive laptop. Since these are my savings, that's why I am a little tight on budget.

Damn, you are lucky to have that mom! And you say you are buying a 15k multimeter from your savings... jeez guys, how much is pocket money for today's kids? I used to get $.5 per week for petrol and another $1 for whole week food allowance and that is 15 years ago.

Enjoy man. I spent about 70k on my lab from my own hard earned money and still it feels like am I wasting too much money

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I will look into the meters mentioned by you. And no I do not feel offended, in fact I feel more motivated   

You are welcome!

[Fungus]

And if you really want a quality product with reliability why not buy following?

https://www.amazon.in/Fluke-Multimeter-Calibration-Certificate-Warranty/dp/B07B3WCV34/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1529656829&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=fluke+multimeter&psc=1

It is Rs. 7850 (USD 115) with NIST calibration certificate. So you can trust that it is accurate. 4000 counts. Fluke is very reputable brand so I assume reliability and durability is going to much better than cheaper Chinesium products.

If you can buy it in India and not pay taxes then a Fluke 17B+ is a very good primary multimeter. It's not fancy (no bar graph, not TRMS) but it's very reliable and safe.

(You still need a second cheapo multimeter though...  )

[Vgkid]

What about looking into the Rishabh Multi 18s , or the Multi 20(might be slightly over your budget).

[Raj]

If you are blowing up your meters after leaving them in amps range then comming back to check a voltage, something is wrong with your practice.
such a guy should unplug the red cable every time you finish using the meter, sure it'll wear the contacks down, but it'll still last longer than what it would if it were to blow up.

[arif_senpai]

If you are blowing up your meters after leaving them in amps range then comming back to check a voltage, something is wrong with your practice.
such a guy should unplug the red cable every time you finish using the meter, sure it'll wear the contacks down, but it'll still last longer than what it would if it were to blow up.

I never said I blew up my meter putting it on Amps range. My friend did. He borrowed it from me. As he said, he put the dial on current range and tried to check the voltage of mains. Lucky for him the circuit breaker popped.

But I will say, such a mistake could have happened by me too. To err is human.

[arif_senpai]

What about looking into the Rishabh Multi 18s , or the Multi 20(might be slightly over your budget).

Haven't actually heard of them before. Couldn't find any reviews on the internet too. 

Design seems to be inspired from Gossen Metrawatt meters with automatic terminal blocking. But looking at the price, that might be the only thing they copied. I'll search for it a bit more.

Thanks for your comment.

[arif_senpai]

How about find a seller who have product on hands (not on remote warehouse with employees) on ebay and convince him to lower the declared price?
I received a lot of parcels which been about $50 declared and really price of package contents should be 2 to 10 times more. You also can ask about "for parts or non working" note in description or whatever you need to avoid customs attention in your case.

On what all sites(international shipping) can you ask the seller directly to declare the package at lower value? I haven't really tried Ebay since ebay.in exists for name sake only, there are no products available whatsoever.

Inspired by Dave to look up old second hand CRO for $50 on ebay, I searched for them on ebay india. What do I find? New CROs for over $400.

[karkoon]

I had a Fluke 101, and I didn't remember it having bad LCD.

Yes. In fact I don’t know how a screen displaying black and white numbers can be significantly worse or better.

Hey but OP knows exactly what he wants. A man wants what he wants. [emoji3]


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[arif_senpai]

I had a Fluke 101, and I didn't remember it having bad LCD.

I feel it's very subjective. I don't own any Fluke meter but what I've seen in videos, based on a side-by-side comparison all the Flukes look terrible. Even the reviewer says other meter screens have better contrast and backlight illumination. Even the 87V screen is average.

It's like for some a display is a display, an output device that just provides a visible cue of what's happening. But for others the small things that make a display look better, matter.

I could have got my work done even on a computer sporting 768p screen. But I desired to have at least 1080p/high dpi display so had to spend an extra $250.
I even refrain from working on computers in my college (not during tests though  have no other choice) as they sport 768p panels on a large 20" display. I just mess around purposely doing random stuff and tell my teachers I will complete the session at home.

Again it's pretty subjective.

I had a Fluke 101, and I didn't remember it having bad LCD.

Yes. In fact I don’t know how a screen displaying black and white numbers can be significantly worse or better.

Hey but OP knows exactly what he wants. A man wants what he wants. [emoji3]


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karkoon you still think I am biased towards BM235 don't you? Well ok, maybe a bit, but if it costs double the price than MSRP just because of taxes (why you do this Indian Government?) I ain't buying it anytime soon. I have emailed the official distributor Kusam Meco, if they don't reply within a few days, I may end up buying the Fluke 17B+ or something like that. It looks ok-ish. Still watching reviews right now.

[WhichEnt2]

How about find a seller who have product on hands (not on remote warehouse with employees) on ebay and convince him to lower the declared price?
I received a lot of parcels which been about $50 declared and really price of package contents should be 2 to 10 times more. You also can ask about "for parts or non working" note in description or whatever you need to avoid customs attention in your case.

On what all sites(international shipping) can you ask the seller directly to declare the package at lower value? I haven't really tried Ebay since ebay.in exists for name sake only, there are no products available whatsoever.

Inspired by Dave to look up old second hand CRO for $50 on ebay, I searched for them on ebay india. What do I find? New CROs for over $400.

I especially asked for lower declared price and special item description about 3 - 5 times on ebay.com.
All other lowered declared price cases occurred by seller initiative only.

[Candid]

Agree with me or not, they have terrible screen. Even UNI-T meters have better screen.

My experience is different. I own a Fluke 27II, Fluke 107 and an UNI-T UT71E and UNI-T 204 and the displays of the Flukes are better in point of viewing angle, saturation and uniform illumination. Directly compared in the best viewing angle the Fluke letters are black and extremely sharp, the UNI-T letters are more a very dark grey and not that sharp.

I would go for the Fluke 17B+ concerning your situation. Otherwise I would choose a Brymen as first DMM. Currently Brymen offers the best quality concerning the price. And a second cheaper DMM like the Aneng.

[rsjsouza]

I also realised cheap vs expensive meters nowadays don’t differ in measurement accuracy but the quality of protection they offer. I almost exclusively committed to work with DC voltages less than 30V and 10A current. So I guess I am protected enough with the brands I purchased.

Just one remark: not only the protection, but in my experience I have observed that quality control in manufacturing (i.e., loose pieces of solder inside the meter, dirty PCBs with flux residue, bad solder joints, etc.) and long time reproducibility of results (due to cheap trimpots or low-quality PCBs and switch contacts) are the most significant problems when used in electronics.

I agree with others that having a good and reliable multimeter is a good thing to have, therefore both the Fluke 17B+ or the BM235 would be a good choice in this regard. In addition to the suggestions, another meter that is growing on me is the UT61E - extremely well documented on the internet and with several features that are excellent for electronics usage.

If you are looking for durability, Flukes and Brymens are unbeatable in my opinion.

[Robert Contracts]

Well my 2c worth.. purchased the BM235 because wanted a little quality compaired to the cheap and nasty meters i use without autorange etc.. less that 2yr later with only a few dozen times used if now failed.... all my cheap junk meters still work for my voltage and other basic testing... i wanted a quality rubber case meter with good leads. So quite annoyed. Anyway will look on here if anyone has an idea. Emailed Dave no response guess 2 busy
 Wonder how my other people have problems with these meters. Shame shame shame.