Agilent 54831D modernising

[Howardlong]

Folks

I've spent the past few weeks on and off investigating getting my old PC-based 54831D scope modernised to a Skylake processor, and although it's not yet a completed project, I thought I'd put some notes down as I've seen a handful of posts on the subject of updating these scopes. The aim is to have a reasonably current OS, and improve the scope's general performance, particularly when dealing with large memory acquisitions and doing decodes, which is my typical use case for this instrument. If there are any corrections or other constructive comments please feel free to add them.

Why? To be completely honest I've burned far too much time and resources on this project, I thought it'd be half a day or so. I'll now never see the RoI, but I've been like a dog with a bone on it, and I don't really need to do it: for day to day use there are better instruments at my disposal for most things, but occasionally the 54831D still earns its place on the bench. So it's because you can, not because you need to do it, a bit like climbing Everest.

If you're considering typing a response along the lines of "why would you do that?" I have the afore quoted pre-baked answers to save your typing effort 

Overview

Here is the Agilent 5483xx family:

Model   Bandwidth   Channels
54830D   600MHz   2+16
54831D   600MHz   4+16
54832D   1GHz      4+16
54833D   1GHz      2+16
54830B   600MHz   2
54831B   600MHz   4
54832B   1GHz      4
54833A   1GHz      2

These are all 4GSa/s scopes, which drops to 2GSa/s when using channels sharing the same ADC. For example in 4 channel scopes, using ch 1+2 or 3+4 will result in 2GSa/s maximum sampling rate on each channel, but using ch 1+3, 2+4, 2+3 or 2+4 gives you 4GSa/s on each channel. They max out at 128Mpts memory.

You can't update a 2ch scope to a 4ch scope or a DSO to and MSO as there are required front panel features that will be missing (sounds obvious, but to avoid any doubt I mention it here).

It's a Windows XP Pro PC-based scope from about 2002 or so, and ran until about 2005. It's woefully underpowered nowadays in terms of computing power, using an old 1GHz P3 with 512MB RAM and a PCI (not PCIe) motherboard, but the acquisition electronics remain solid, although devotees of high update rates and intensity graded displays will be largely disappointed. To display the waveforms quickly enough on this old hardware it uses the concept of VGA overlay, which hands over a rectangular section of the screen to hardware external to the graphics card. There were a number of similar scopes and even LAs from the era, and some of the really early ones were Windows 98 based with even less RAM.

The unit I have was based on the "latest" Motorola VP22 motherboard. This maxes out with the 1GHz P3 and 512MB RAM as far as I've been able to fathom in terms of my own testing and what I could find out from Googling.

The UI is limited on the front panel. You frequently need to use the Windows UI to access stuff, but not rarely the keyboard, so I keep a wireless USB mouse under the desk on an under-desk keyboard slide to do this: that way it doesn't take up bench space, and you don't even need to slide out the keyboard, you just operate it from under the desk.

First, the easy upgrades

Update to SSD, either PATA (if you can find one) or SATA with a SATA/PATA adapter (there are no SATA ports on the motherboard). Some really new SATA drives I couldn't get to boot. If you use a SATA/PATA adapter, keep in mind that the internal CD-ROM is configured as an IDE slave. While there are concerns about XP and TRIM, I've had no problems and am still using the same SSD from a couple of years ago without any problems.

The 600MHz scopes can be updated to 1GHz by removing a resistor on the acquisition board. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/54831b-upgrade-to-54832b-possible/

There are a few other easy upgrades knocking around too if you do a bit of judicious Googling.

Tools of the trade

To backup, move and resize the disk I used Acronis True Image 2013 and 2016. If you choose to do the imaging on the scope itself, then be aware that the 640x480 screen becomes a limitation, there is a fix https://kb.acronis.com/content/3836 In general though, you'll find it quicker to backup and restore images using a more modern PC booted with Acronis TI with assorted USB 3.0 to SATA/PATA adapters if you have them available. I am sure there are other methods, this is what I used.

I also found I had to fix the restored disk's MBR a few times after imaging, for that I used Paragon Disk Manager. It appears that the Smart Boot Manager deployed with a virgin scope doesn't much like resizing partitions, and I don't know the password that Agilent used on it to configure it the password is "agilent" (lower case, no quotes), so I just blew away the MBR. The problem is then that if you need to get into the recovery partition, you have some work to do, but then you did keep the original disk, right? 

USB 2.0 PCI adapter. The VP22 Motherboard only supports USB 1.0 onboard. I used a SATA/USB 2.0 combo board that I had, but I couldn't boot a SATA drive from it on this board although the card's ROM was recognised at POST. I also tried a USB 3.0 PCI card (rare on PCI!) but there is limited point to this as the motherboard's maximum PCI bus is barely over 1Gbps. Also consider that the PCI bus is a shared resource, and some of this will be demanded by the scope app, so take care on what you place on this bus.

PCIe bootable SATA/PATA card - handy because Skylake motherboards only rarely support IDE booting.

SATA CD/DVD drive - Skylake only supports USB 3.0 out of the box, so your OS needs the drivers out of the box, default USB 2.0 drivers won't work on Skylake. You can slipstream them but I've had very limited success with this (on an X99 board with an i7-6800K!).

PCI to PCIe and PCIe to PCI riser adapters.

Upgrading the OS

Once, maybe 25-30 years ago, I considered that knew my way around a motherboard and PCs in general pretty well. Those were in the days when frankly there wasn't really much to know, arm yourself with a screwdriver and Bob's your uncle. As time has gone on, PC architecture has become layer upon layer of functionality, with some things being completely disposed of and becoming obsolete, while others have become so ingrained it's nigh on impossible to remove them, like a PS/2 port for example, essential if you can't even get a USB stack up, let alone bluetooth of course.

So much of this is me getting up to speed with today's PC tech, although I've been doing it on and off pretty much since the mid 80s when the PC was born.

I tried doing fresh installs of OS (Windows Vista and Windows 7), and although the OS installs worked, I couldn't get the scope app to work afterwards. There's some Sentinel service running, and I don't know how much that has to do with it, but it's generally for copy protection of one sort or another. There are also some other bits and pieces you need to find such as drivers, the IO libraries and the app itself.

So I chose to do in-place upgrades. To upgrade in place from XP to Windows 7 you need to do this via Vista. The only in-place upgrade sequence from XP Pro is XP Pro -> Vista Ultimate -> Windows 7 Ultimate. You can't go straight from XP Pro to W7.

I could get the existing OS to run on a Skylake H110 motherboard by using Acronis Universal Restore to add the XP SATA drivers to the build (driver here: http://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html using the 32 bit 11.2 version which covers Skylake). Often I also needed to do an XP repair (with media slipstreamed with the aforementioned drivers using nLite) to fix ACPI BSODs, and pressing F5 when the F6 prompt is offered, selecting the Pentium 4 ACPI later on. I sometimes found that the slipstreamed restored image needed activating, which is irritating to say the least as there's no network set up so it's a manual telephone process. To add insult to injury, the activation process itself is broken, and you need to do a manual install of IE8 in safe mode to work around it (go figure).

Unless you're a current hardcore PC engineer who makes slipstreamed OS bootable USB thumb drives in their sleep, I recommend installing from CD/DVD rather than trying to make up bootable USB drives which add to the general confusion although I accept in the longer term they'd be more convenient. For bootable USB drives for things like Paragon Disk Manager and Acronis, I used SanDisk Extreme USB 3.0 thumb drives as they're super fast.

Upgrading from XP to Vista can be done on the scope's VP22 board, and this works although of course it's horrendously slow. One thing to note is that it won't upgrade complaining about .NET needing to be uninstalled but there no officially documented way seemed to succeed (way to go M$). In the end I simply renamed the C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell directory and re-ran the upgrade. The scope app itself is fine when running on the VP22 board under Vista. Upgrading to Window 7 though failed and rolled back each time I tried it on the board.

I had no luck doing an in-place Vista upgrade on a ported XP image on a Skylake board, it failed each time. Instead I restored the working VP22 Vista image and retrofitted the Skylake AHCI drivers using Acronis Universal Restore. I could then do a Windows 7 upgrade on the Skylake board.

I have had success with running the scope fully up to Vista on the VP22 board, and also a ported XP on a Skylake board. The ported XP suffered because it  lacked working drivers for things like USB (at least I've not been able to get them to work yet), and the ACPI mismatch means it won't properly turn off or reboot under software control.

Practical logistical problems

The IO shield on these scopes is milled or punched out of the chassis, it's not replaceable. So the choices are (a) find a compatible board [I failed], (b) hack a hole for an IO shield or (c) use assorted risers. If you're brave, then sure, go for (b). Considering this scope still has substantial resale value in its factory state, I preferred option (c). More on this later, I am sure.

I've tried other options such as mini ITX and DTX boards with PCIe to multiple PCI daughter boards in place of where the mATX board would present its cards. This hasn't been too successful, the daughter boards tended not to work or only worked very intermittently. I strongly suspect this is a power related problem, although they are supplied with their own molex or SATA power connector. At first the USB 3.0 male-male cables used to sent the PCIe data were the suspects, but now I'm not so sure.

The preferred method now is to go back to using individual PCI to PCIe adapter risers off the mATX board and fabricate a frame internally.

Drivers...

Regarding drivers, as well as the Agilent drivers, there are also the drivers for the CT65550 graphics card pair. There's only one PCI acquisition/GPIB interface board, but it requires about eight drivers. Most of the Agilent drivers are not properly exposed as the .inf files are missing from the deployed build. They can, however, be found on the scope's RECOVERY partition inside a ghost image. I opened this up inside an old VM with Ghost 9.0 installed and managed to find a bunch of .infs for all the devices. Here are the .infs & .sys I found with relevance:

A0014602.inf
Adobe.inf
Adobe.sys
agave.inf
agave.sys
agbridge.sys
agt357.inf
agt82341.sys
agt82350.sys
agt82357.sys
agtgpib.inf
faroacq.inf
Faroacq.sys
mesa.inf
Mesa.sys
Phramacq.inf
phramacq.sys
tstone.inf
tstone.sys
Zeum.inf
Zeum.sys

I located all of these and placed them in a single directory to ease later installation from the Device Manager applet.

The CT65550 graphics card driver is in c:\WinXPFiles\CT65550. I am still having trouble getting this to install properly and consistently on newer operating systems, it seems quite flakey when you override the default VGA driver.

Once you have all the above installed, you need to run the postsysprep.bat batch file in the C:\PciFilter directory. Hopefully when you reboot, all will work!

Interesting...

More recently, a couple of days ago I went full throttle and installed an in-place Windows 7 on a Skylake motherboard on top of a Vista that was suffering slow screen updating in the scope app, with maybe one screen graticule update per second or so. Of interest was that the updated screen graticule looked like it had intensity grading, something I've never seen on this scope (other than with the limited very slow persistence-based blue trace Megazoom option).

At this point I thought I'd take a punt and remove the CT65550 cards, and see what the on board Intel 530 graphics did with an external monitor, wondering how (or if) this works with the same software in later scopes like the 8000 series which don't use the VGA overlay technique, assuming that this was what was happening. Well, it seemed at first to work really well, screen updates were at least as good as before and there was definitely intensity grading now. I could also increase the resolution, with 1024x768 being the maximum that the application would show.

Then I took a look at what the scope thought it was with the Help->About. It seemed it now though it was an MSO8104A!

All this was short-lived though, because I tried the scope on equivalent time rather than real time using the built in calibrator, and the graticule was just gobbledegook. The app crashed soon afterwards too, so I strongly suspect in its attempt to be something it isn't it broke something. Reinstalling the old VP22 board in its virgin state restored everything to normality.

So the effort now is to try to get it back to thinking the Windows 7/Skylake combo is a 54831D/54832D with the CT65550 with the integrated flat panel.

Results so far

Running the ported XP image on a $60 Skylake micro ATX H110 board with the three PCI cards on individual PCIe->PCI risers, performed extraordinarily well with a G4500T 2C2T Pentium 3.0GHz/3MB cache 35W processor, however those risers mean that the boards won't fit upright in the chassis. For a short time I also tried a 2C2T G3900 Celeron 2.8GHz/2MB cache 51W processor and a 2C4T i3-6320 3.9GHz/4GB cache 51W processor. Boot times were pretty impressive, under 20s to get the scope screen up in the case of the i3, and not much further behind with the other two processors. This being a single-threaded app, the application start up times all very closely reflected the processor speed. The first time I started the scope app I assumed something must have failed because it came up so quickly!

There is a limit to the processor you can put in this scope without an additional power supply, this is why I went for the G4500T 35W processor which seemed a reasonable selection based on price and single thread performance for a 35W processor.

Tips for buying 5483xx scopes (for later further expansion I am sure)

• Make sure it has the VP22 motherboard, with Windows XP installed.
• Probes, in particular the digital probes for the MSO, are fairly rare eBay finds: they're not the same as those used on other lower end Agilent/Keysight MSOs.

[lukier]

Love this type of threads. I too often get ancient stuff and go great lengths to modernize it (my most recent one was upgrading the insides of TLA704 to make it TLA715).

I think the biggest issue is this silly VGA overlay that requires ancient CT65550 graphic card tightly coupled to the OS, drivers and the scope app.

I wonder why Agilent designed this the way it is. I could see another possibility - to treat oscilloscope graticules / intensity grading output similarly to a camera video stream. Back in the days of these scopes it would be, for example, Bt848 PCI video grabber/tuner. Grabs a frame and sends over PCI to the app and then the app can display that onto Win32/DirectX/OpenGL surface. It has small overhead of buffer copies, but it is much simpler and the modernization with a PCIe to PCI adapter should be possible.

The MSO8104A glitch sounds promising, maybe it is worth pursuing further. I could imagine (just guessing, I don't have the scope) that providing a phony DLL (that the scope app tries to use) instead of the real driver might stop the crashes.

[Howardlong]

Love this type of threads. I too often get ancient stuff and go great lengths to modernize it (my most recent one was upgrading the insides of TLA704 to make it TLA715).

I think the biggest issue is this silly VGA overlay that requires ancient CT65550 graphic card tightly coupled to the OS, drivers and the scope app.

I wonder why Agilent designed this the way it is. I could see another possibility - to treat oscilloscope graticules / intensity grading output similarly to a camera video stream. Back in the days of these scopes it would be, for example, Bt848 PCI video grabber/tuner. Grabs a frame and sends over PCI to the app and then the app can display that onto Win32/DirectX/OpenGL surface. It has small overhead of buffer copies, but it is much simpler and the modernization with a PCIe to PCI adapter should be possible.

The MSO8104A glitch sounds promising, maybe it is worth pursuing further. I could imagine (just guessing, I don't have the scope) that providing a phony DLL (that the scope app tries to use) instead of the real driver might stop the crashes.

As I understand it the next gen 8000 series don't use VGA overlay, favouring more conventional (for today) graphics card methods instead. I am pretty sure upgrading the OS and motherboard on these will be a piece of cake, barring the I/O shield nonsense of course.

I remember doing a project in the mid 90s on Windows 95, and getting high speed simple machine-rendered screen blits to the screen at video speed was indeed a complete nightmare. That project failed pretty quickly because it was realised what we were trying to achieve simply wasn't economically viable with the day's technology, and that technology gap surprised me at the time: almost nothing seemed to have moved on in the PC graphics area from when I was writing Windows display drivers in the late 80s.

I had a look to see if the correct sized 8.4" XGA screens are available in case I get the non-CT65550 version to work, and it appears they are, Mitsubishi seem to be the manufacturers, but I'd need to check mountings are equivalent. There also appear to be HDMI/DVI to LVDS adapters for them for about $25, so it'd be a simple matter to interface to a modern motherboard. Not sure if the touch interfaces are as easy to source though. I did have a brief look for a ready made touch screen monitor that I could take apart, but I doubt many are XGA. In addition, there are fewer and fewer available in a 4:3 aspect ratio these days.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I've spent the past few weeks on and off investigating getting my old PC-based 54831D scope modernised to a Skylake processor, and although it's not yet a completed project, I thought I'd put some notes down as I've seen a handful of posts on the subject of updating these scopes. The aim is to have a reasonably current OS, and improve the scope's general performance, particularly when dealing with large memory acquisitions and doing decodes, which is my typical use case for this instrument.

I doubt you'll see much improvement from a PC board upgrade, after all these scopes use a proprietary ASIC architecture which determines the scope performance, not the PC part. Windows is merely used as an UI and display layer on these scopes. A while ago I did a few tests upgrading my Infiniium DSO8064A, although all under WindowsXP, but overall scope performance did not change one bit with a faster CPU (although general Windows and application performance did, but was hardly worth it). Again, this was expected, as the scope performance is decided by the proprietary ASICs (i.e. MegaZoom) and not by the PC platform.

I think a better project would be to try to get the DSO9000A software (which is newer and supports more serial decode standards) to work on the old Infiniium 54800/DSO8000 Series.

[Howardlong]

I've spent the past few weeks on and off investigating getting my old PC-based 54831D scope modernised to a Skylake processor, and although it's not yet a completed project, I thought I'd put some notes down as I've seen a handful of posts on the subject of updating these scopes. The aim is to have a reasonably current OS, and improve the scope's general performance, particularly when dealing with large memory acquisitions and doing decodes, which is my typical use case for this instrument.

I doubt you'll see much improvement from a PC board upgrade, after all these scopes use a proprietary ASIC architecture which determines the scope performance, not the PC part. Windows is merely used as an UI and display layer on these scopes. A while ago I did a few tests upgrading my Infiniium DSO8064A, although all under WindowsXP, but overall scope performance did not change one bit with a faster CPU (although general Windows and application performance did, but was hardly worth it). Again, this was expected, as the scope performance is decided by the proprietary ASICs (i.e. MegaZoom) and not by the PC platform.

I think a better project would be to try to get the DSO9000A software (which is newer and supports more serial decode standards) to work on the old Infiniium 54800/DSO8000 Series.

While I realise boot time has no importance to you, in this instance the unit boots to the scope screen in under 20s, down form about 2 minutes. My workflow doesn't extend to having a scope switched on from 9am to 5pm, with a half hour break for coffee while I wait for it to warm up, I switch it on as I need it and accept that there might be some minor cal aberrations during the warm up time.

There is also the possibility from early indications that with the improved processing power and integrated GPU it introduces intensity grading, something not available on the original 54830 series. That's before measuring things like decode performance, the main reason for starting this.

Anyway, as I stated at the head of the OP, it's now a project "because you can" rather than having a real need that offsets the investment in time.

One problem with your 9000 suggestion, I don't have one, if I did I am sure I'd be doing what you suggest. If I saw one for a bargain price I might well do that, but they're in a totally different price point to the 54830 series, unless of course you can point to somewhere where they're on offer for about £2k.

[Wuerstchenhund]

While I realise boot time has no importance to you, in this instance the unit boots to the scope screen in under 20s, down form about 2 minutes.

Well, I got from almost 2mins to <35s just by replacing the slow 5400rpm laptop hard drive in my DSO8064A with a SSD. But then, the intel board in that scope already comes with SATA, so it's already reasonable fast, and I appreciate that this isn't the case for the old Socket7 and Socket370 boards in the Infiniium 54800 Series. However, a cheap SiL SATA PCI adapter + SSD should solve that problem for the 54800 Series (I know that some of the cheap PCI SATA cards have problems booting in these old boards, especially those with Marvel controller).

My workflow doesn't extend to having a scope switched on from 9am to 5pm, with a half hour break for coffee while I wait for it to warm up, I switch it on as I need it and accept that there might be some minor cal aberrations during the warm up time.

At home I also don't have my scopes switched on all the time but only when I need them. I still don't care if booting requires 30s or 1min, as I usually use the boot time to prepare the required probing.

There is also the possibility from early indications that with the improved processing power and integrated GPU it introduces intensity grading, something not available on the original 54830 series. That's before measuring things like decode performance, the main reason for starting this.

Intensity grading is available on the DSO80/80k Series because it doesn't rely on that ancient C&T graphics card and hardware overlay, and I doubt that the 54800 can be made to work reliably with software overlay, at least not without modifying the scope app (which will either expect hardware overlay on the C&T grapics card for a 54800 Series scope and real DSO8k hardware for a DSO8k).

One problem with your 9000 suggestion, I don't have one, if I did I am sure I'd be doing what you suggest. If I saw one for a bargain price I might well do that, but they're in a totally different price point to the 54830 series, unless of course you can point to somewhere where they're on offer for about £2k.

You don't need to buy a DSO9k scope to download the DSO9k software. From a quick look I assume the scope application should work on the older Infiniiums (well, at least on the DSO8k, which is much closer to the DSO9k than to the old 54800 Series), however the software download lacks the hardware drivers for the older scopes.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I wonder why Agilent designed this the way it is.

Simple, because when the Infiniium 54800 Series was designed back in the '90s hardware overlay was the only way to get live video onto a computer monitor without requiring specialized hardware or fast processors. Don't forget the Infiniium 54800 Series came out in late 1997, with early versions running Windows 95 (subsequently updated to Windows98 and later WindowsXP). Which makes the architecture more than 20 years old.

I could see another possibility - to treat oscilloscope graticules / intensity grading output similarly to a camera video stream. Back in the days of these scopes it would be, for example, Bt848 PCI video grabber/tuner. Grabs a frame and sends over PCI to the app and then the app can display that onto Win32/DirectX/OpenGL surface. It has small overhead of buffer copies, but it is much simpler and the modernization with a PCIe to PCI adapter should be possible.

That's how the Infiniium 8000, the successor to the old 54800 Series, does it, as well as subsequent scopes (i.e. the DSO9k). It's standard software overlay that pretty much any GPU made since the late '90s supports.

BTW, on LeCroy scopes, the scope app uses Direct3D to draw the waveforms on screen (no overlay).

The MSO8104A glitch sounds promising, maybe it is worth pursuing further. I could imagine (just guessing, I don't have the scope) that providing a phony DLL (that the scope app tries to use) instead of the real driver might stop the crashes.

I doubt that this helps, the DSO8k may look a lot like the 54800 Series on the outside, on the inside it's quite different (and a lot more reliable than the 54800 Series, which was plagued from various hardware issues). The scope app probably just checks for presence of the C&T graphics card to determine if it is running on a 54800 Series scope or a DSO8k, and with the card missing will believe its running on a DSO8k. It still expects to find DSO8k hardware, though.

[Jwalling]

Somebody has already done an O/S upgrade on one of these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/%28urgent%29-agilent-54831d-mso-oscilloscope-4a16dig-new-motherboard-windows-7/

A pity he didn't share his experience.

[lukier]

Simple, because when the Infiniium 54800 Series was designed back in the '90s hardware overlay was the only way to get live video onto a computer monitor without requiring specialized hardware or fast processors. Don't forget the Infiniium 54800 Series came out in late 1997, with early versions running Windows 95 (subsequently updated to Windows98 and later WindowsXP). Which makes the architecture more than 20 years old.

1997 is two years after Windows 95 that introduced DirectX (and AFAIR OpenGL software rendering was shipped with Win95 as well, NT had OpenGL even before DirectX as NT used to be multi-platform and MS had cooperation with SGI). Bt848 TV tuner chipset also came in 1997, so transferring full PAL video and displaying it live on the PC screen was definitely available in 1997 (I had Bt878 tuner a year or two later, on a P120MMX).

PCI bandwith is 133 MB/s which is quite a bit, with 54800 screen resolution of 640x480 you can stream RGB video at 150 fps - there is plenty of bandwith. The only issue is blitting the buffers onto the screen.

[Wuerstchenhund]

1997 is two years after Windows 95 that introduced DirectX (and AFAIR OpenGL software rendering was shipped with Win95 as well, NT had OpenGL even before DirectX as NT used to be multi-platform and MS had cooperation with SGI). Bt848 TV tuner chipset also came in 1997, so transferring full PAL video and displaying it live on the PC screen was definitely available in 1997 (I had Bt878 tuner a year or two later, on a P120MMX).

That is all well and nice but the point you're missing is that a product like a scope isn't developed in a day, and for a scope that is as complex as the Infiniium 54800 Series and which has been brought to market in 1997 development has started closer to 1994, a time when Windows 95 was still in Beta (plus DirectX didn't even make it into the first Windows95 release but was added later only, and everything before DirectX 5 was absolute crap anyways). There was no software OpenGL in Windows 9x (OpenGL support had to come with the graphics drivers), and WindowsNT would have been way to ressource hungry (plus NT up to 3.5/3.51 was pretty slow in regards to graphics, which only got better with NT 4.0 where the gfx driver moved to Ring 0, but NT 4 came out in 1996 and was still a ressource hog). Not a lot of choice for HP.

The other thing is that HP, like any T&M vendor who wanted to be able to support its product for a very long time, was looking for components that were available for an extended period of time, something that wasn't and still isn't exactly common with PC parts. The C&T 65500 Series of GPUs found wide use in various embedded applications back then, and was available on standard graphics cards, which is very likely why HP settled on it for their design.

PCI bandwith is 133 MB/s which is quite a bit, with 54800 screen resolution of 640x480 you can stream RGB video at 150 fps - there is plenty of bandwith. The only issue is blitting the buffers onto the screen.

PCI32 33MHz bandwidth is 133MB/s only in theory, even on good modern boards the real-world BW is closer to 120MB/s, and back in the old days of Pentium, P2 and AMD K6 the PCI throughput was closer to 70MB/s due to the slow chipsets, often combined with a 25MHz bus clock rate instead of 33MHz.

Also, for a scope a update rate of 150 updates/s isn't exactly stellar. The Infiniium 54800 Series isn't fast but they manage a lot more than just 150 updates per second. Hardware overlay meant the overlay didn't have to go through the slow PCI bus.

I'm not a great fan of the 54800 Series (mainly due to their poor reliability), and some of the design decisions appear silly today, but the reality is that, when HP designed the 54800 Series, there wasn't a lot they could have done better. Had they waited for say 3 years or so the situation would have been different, but not for a scope that was designed at the time the Infiniium 54800 had been. After all, the Infinnium 54800s were amongst the first Windows-based scopes (together with a Windows scope from Nicolet).

As stated before, if you want to see a implementation that makes use of DirectX then have a look at LeCroy's X-Stream scopes. It's a CPU-centric architecture (i.e. the PC CPU does all scope calculations, not proprietary ASICs as on other brands' scopes) where no overlay involved, which produces higher update rates and makes the scope app work like any other Windows app, i.e. it is independent of the screen resolution, can be used fullscreen or windowed, freely moved around the desktop, and is independent on which display it runs in a multi-monitor setup. But LeCroy started a lot later than HP (the first X-Stream scopes appeared in late 2001/early 2002, development started around 1999).

[lukier]

Also, for a scope a update rate of 150 updates/s isn't exactly stellar. The Infiniium 54800 Series isn't fast but they manage a lot more than just 150 updates per second. Hardware overlay meant the overlay didn't have to go through the slow PCI bus.

I didn't mean to transfer every trigger acquisition over the PCI bus, just the rendered result done by the hardware (e.g. what Rigol is doing in their FPGA, trigger, acquire, render with intensity/persistance and using fast Cypress SRAM as a framebuffer), now just send the contents of this framebuffer like a webcam or previously mentioned TV tuner does, over PCI, and 30 fps would be perfectly fine (LCD panel cannot display more anyway, modern ones 60 Hz).

With modern PCie buses on the lower end scopes (<15 GSPS) it might be possible to DMA the data straight from the ADC/sample memory let's say to a GPU and with CUDA/OpenCL process it (math, filters) and generate OpenGL output (persistance/grading etc) in no time (GTX1080 device memory bandwith = 320 GB/s, 8 TFLOPs performance).

As stated before, if you want to see a implementation that makes use of DirectX then have a look at LeCroy's X-Stream scopes. It's a CPU-centric architecture (i.e. the PC CPU does all scope calculations, not proprietary ASICs as on other brands' scopes) where no overlay involved, which produces higher update rates and makes the scope app work like any other Windows app, i.e. it is independent of the screen resolution, can be used fullscreen or windowed, freely moved around the desktop, and is independent on which display it runs in a multi-monitor setup. But LeCroy started a lot later than HP (the first X-Stream scopes appeared in late 2001/early 2002, development started around 1999).

I'm currently saving for a WavePro 7000(A) following your recommendations on this forum, but it will take a while, as these scopes are expensive and have to be imported from eBay US. Also some sellers confuse the later -A models with the previous ones, marketing the old ones as the -A. From the specs it seems the differences are minimal (-A adds XXL memory AFAIR and USB ports on the front), is that true?

I really like LeCroy's approach to PC-oscilloscope integration, as it can benefit from the advances in computing that happened since the 7000A were released. I hope when I get one I'll be able to put a mini-ITX SkyLake board like Howardlong, PCIe to PCI adapter for the LeCroys card interfacing to the acquisition board, dxl's fixed front panel driver and SSD of course and the scope will get a massive boost.

The only thing that bothers me with LeCroy is their late to the game MSO. I think some later models had some funny USB adapters for MSO and only very recent ones have MSO. But I have a separate big logic analyzer (Tek TLA) so having MSO is not that critical.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Also, for a scope a update rate of 150 updates/s isn't exactly stellar. The Infiniium 54800 Series isn't fast but they manage a lot more than just 150 updates per second. Hardware overlay meant the overlay didn't have to go through the slow PCI bus.

I didn't mean to transfer every trigger acquisition over the PCI bus, just the rendered result done by the hardware (e.g. what Rigol is doing in their FPGA, trigger, acquire, render with intensity/persistance and using fast Cypress SRAM as a framebuffer), now just send the contents of this framebuffer like a webcam or previously mentioned TV tuner does, over PCI, and 30 fps would be perfectly fine (LCD panel cannot display more anyway, modern ones 60 Hz).

Sure, today. Even that cheap Cypress FPGA is already a lot more capable than what you could find as reasonably priced PC components back in 1994/1995.

With modern PCie buses on the lower end scopes (<15 GSPS) it might be possible to DMA the data straight from the ADC/sample memory let's say to a GPU and with CUDA/OpenCL process it (math, filters) and generate OpenGL output (persistance/grading etc) in no time (GTX1080 device memory bandwith = 320 GB/s, 8 TFLOPs performance).

Indeed, even for faster sample rates (i.e. 40GSa/s 8bit, or 20GSa/s 12bit) that should be possible today already. GPU processing would be ideal for waveform analysis and signal processing (and you wouldn't even need a high end GPU for that). Sadly, scope manufacturers aren't there yet.

I'm currently saving for a WavePro 7000(A) following your recommendations on this forum, but it will take a while, as these scopes are expensive and have to be imported from eBay US.

Yes, they are. Actually the prices have increased quite a bit over the last couple of years.

Also some sellers confuse the later -A models with the previous ones, marketing the old ones as the -A. From the specs it seems the differences are minimal (-A adds XXL memory AFAIR and USB ports on the front), is that true?

Yes, XXL (96Mpts) was only available with the WP7kA, although it was introduced quite late.

I really like LeCroy's approach to PC-oscilloscope integration, as it can benefit from the advances in computing that happened since the 7000A were released. I hope when I get one I'll be able to put a mini-ITX SkyLake board like Howardlong, PCIe to PCI adapter for the LeCroys card interfacing to the acquisition board, dxl's fixed front panel driver and SSD of course and the scope will get a massive boost.

That's true. Mine is waiting for an upgrade as well, although I won't go as far as Skylake (I'll probably stick to one of the earlier Core I3 on an industrial mainboard with LVDS port for the internal display). Should be pretty much Plug & Play

The only thing that bothers me with LeCroy is their late to the game MSO. I think some later models had some funny USB adapters for MSO and only very recent ones have MSO. But I have a separate big logic analyzer (Tek TLA) so having MSO is not that critical.

Yes, if you want MSO then these scopes aren't a good choice (and in this case I'd probably look at an Agilent MSO8000A, which is a good scope and much better than the Infiniium 54800D). LeCroy was pretty late to the MSO game and there was a MSO option (called MS-32) for these older LeCroy scopes which is an external box connecting to the scope via USB, which was bought in and plain and simple a piece of crap. Also, once enabled on the scope it will not work without it. Later scopes (WRXi/WSXs and up) use different MSO boxes (MS-250 and MS-500) which connect via L-Bus and which work great but still cost an arm and a leg 2nd hand.

[Howardlong]

Somebody has already done an O/S upgrade on one of these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/%28urgent%29-agilent-54831d-mso-oscilloscope-4a16dig-new-motherboard-windows-7/

A pity he didn't share his experience.

I did contact the individual via PM. Rather than giving suggestions, he replied tersely with a bill for $300, and proceeded to tell me I hadn't tried very hard. The conversation ended there as far as I was concerned.

[Howardlong]

The other thing to note about ancient graphics cards adhering roughly to the EGA/VGA standard was that they were useless for bitblt because of the layered way they were accessed in the limited memory window, they weren't a simple memory map, far from it in fact. This particularly affected non-byte aligned continuous colour RMW operations, typical in bitblt.

It's been a very long time since I wrote graphics drivers for VGA, I'd estimate over 25 years ago, and I don't know how much the CT65550 was dependent on VGA's graphics modes and the limited memory window, but I do know VGA was indeed a right royal pain in arse to code drivers for!

I did an experiment watching a Youtube video on the CT65550 on a Skylake board, and I estimated it was about ~15fps full screen. With the VP22 motherboard it's about 2fps.

[Jwalling]

Somebody has already done an O/S upgrade on one of these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/%28urgent%29-agilent-54831d-mso-oscilloscope-4a16dig-new-motherboard-windows-7/

A pity he didn't share his experience.

I did contact the individual via PM. Rather than giving suggestions, he replied tersely with a bill for $300, and proceeded to tell me I hadn't tried very hard. The conversation ended there as far as I was concerned.

Shithead. 
Hopefully someone here will get a chance to return the favor someday, when he needs help. 

EDIT: And you even helped him in the past. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dsox2000-and-3000-series-licence-have-anyone-tried-to-hack-that-scope/msg893788/#msg893788

[lukier]

Shithead. 

S....d indeed.

But it means that a major modernization is possible somehow.

I doubt this guy did some DIY hardware solution that might be possible. In the 54830 service guide, theory of operation, it says the driving for the LCD is done by the Display Board, and the ancient graphics card (marked A11) just feeds this custom Display Board (A12). One could imagine some piece of hardware that uses modern GPU, LVDS to parallel converter and an FPGA to convert the parallel video to the format produced by CT65550 / expected by the Display Board.

But that's a lot of work.

I suspect the guy spent a lot of time with IDA or similar disassembler to figure out various things (including how to enable options) and somehow managed to get it running (maybe the MSO8104A glitch idea with some phony mock-DLL).

Edit:
Maybe not even that:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS-/291821246325?hash=item43f1e6d775:g:OKgAAOSwARZXi-PL

Asus P5Q-VM DO is not that modern, it has 3 PCI slots so I guess the cards stayed the same. Note also from the description:
"The scope on Windows Vista was fully functional. The scope app had problems with the graphics card on Windows 7. Some functions were not working correctly, but the OS was running fine. I didn't found a good driver for Chips&Tech 65550 (VEN_102C DEV_00E0) graphics card  for Windows 7. The newest version which was tested was 2.51c."

"I solved the issue with the scope application on Windows 7. Now it's running fine. The scope is running on Windows 7. All functions are fully functional.
The issue was virtual memory. I needed to set the size manualy. Now it's working."

Note that the system is 32 bit, apparently the old drivers crash on x64.

Meh, E6700 is OK but I wouldn't call that lightning fast, especially with the original GPU 

[Howardlong]

Shithead. 

S....d indeed.

But it means that a major modernization is possible somehow.

I doubt this guy did some DIY hardware solution that might be possible. In the 54830 service guide, theory of operation, it says the driving for the LCD is done by the Display Board, and the ancient graphics card (marked A11) just feeds this custom Display Board (A12). One could imagine some piece of hardware that uses modern GPU, LVDS to parallel converter and an FPGA to convert the parallel video to the format produced by CT65550 / expected by the Display Board.

But that's a lot of work.

I suspect the guy spent a lot of time with IDA or similar disassembler to figure out various things (including how to enable options) and somehow managed to get it running (maybe the MSO8104A glitch idea with some phony mock-DLL).

I am pretty sure it was another forum member that spent a lot of time with IDA ;-)

Edit:
Maybe not even that:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS-/291821246325?hash=item43f1e6d775:g:OKgAAOSwARZXi-PL

That's the one. There is a slightly more recent version knocking about which shows the floppy drive replaced with an IO panel and the IO shield hacked out if you look closely.

Asus P5Q-VM DO is not that modern, it has 3 PCI slots so I guess the cards stayed the same. Note also from the description:
"The scope on Windows Vista was fully functional.

I have one of those mobos here, and was going to install it but it's a tight fit, when I realised (doh) I needed to hack an IO shield out all bets were off I'm afraid. It also gives you a somewhat gentler move from IDE/PATA to SATA/AHCI as well as a more compatible ACPI.

The scope app had problems with the graphics card on Windows 7. Some functions were not working correctly, but the OS was running fine. I didn't found a good driver for Chips&Tech 65550 (VEN_102C DEV_00E0) graphics card  for Windows 7. The newest version which was tested was 2.51c."

"I solved the issue with the scope application on Windows 7. Now it's running fine. The scope is running on Windows 7. All functions are fully functional.
The issue was virtual memory. I needed to set the size manualy. Now it's working."

I wonder if the screen update is fast? He mentions a problem with the C&T driver, that was indeed a problem I found if the CT65550 wasn't found.

Note that the system is 32 bit, apparently the old drivers crash on x64.

I didn't even consider x64 a starter, there are about ten proprietary drivers to install, all 32 bit.

Meh, E6700 is OK but I wouldn't call that lightning fast, especially with the original GPU 

There is a limit is the TDP draw with the internal PSU, I'd say 65W in the case of the E6700 is pushing it, the stock P3 is circa 33W, although the application is very largely single threaded. You could install your own SFF PSU I guess, but that would have to somehow work with the acquisition board. Although I agree it's not the fastest CPU, I am pretty sure an E6700 will be a significant improvement over the P3.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Shithead. 

S....d indeed.

Well, he tried to sell a hacked scope, which alone says a lot about the person. 

But it means that a major modernization is possible somehow.

I doubt this guy did some DIY hardware solution that might be possible. In the 54830 service guide, theory of operation, it says the driving for the LCD is done by the Display Board, and the ancient graphics card (marked A11) just feeds this custom Display Board (A12). One could imagine some piece of hardware that uses modern GPU, LVDS to parallel converter and an FPGA to convert the parallel video to the format produced by CT65550 / expected by the Display Board.

That wouldn't help. You need a hardware mixer to overlay the waveform image onto the graphics content, and that needs to happen in the GPU. Older graphics cards (i.e. Radeon 7000/VE and Geforce 2 MX) had a pin connector for hardware overlay, but that is gone from newer cards. And on-board graphics pretty much always lacked the hw overlay inputs.

Once you found a card old enough to support hw overlay (which will very likely be AGP and not PCIe) then you only have to connect the overlay data output to the overlay input of the graphics card. That doesn't help with the performance, though, as the update rate and number (or lack) of intensity grading is determined by the waveform engine.

I suspect the guy spent a lot of time with IDA or similar disassembler to figure out various things (including how to enable options) and somehow managed to get it running (maybe the MSO8104A glitch idea with some phony mock-DLL).

Well, hacking the options is somewhat an open secret on this forum, so no surprise he managed that.

Edit:
Maybe not even that:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS-/291821246325?hash=item43f1e6d775:g:OKgAAOSwARZXi-PL

Asus P5Q-VM DO is not that modern, it has 3 PCI slots so I guess the cards stayed the same. Note also from the description:
"The scope on Windows Vista was fully functional. The scope app had problems with the graphics card on Windows 7. Some functions were not working correctly, but the OS was running fine. I didn't found a good driver for Chips&Tech 65550 (VEN_102C DEV_00E0) graphics card  for Windows 7. The newest version which was tested was 2.51c."

Not surprising regarding the driver, considering that there are no new drivers for that ancient graphics chipset since Windows95.

"I solved the issue with the scope application on Windows 7. Now it's running fine. The scope is running on Windows 7. All functions are fully functional.
The issue was virtual memory. I needed to set the size manualy. Now it's working."

Note that the system is 32 bit, apparently the old drivers crash on x64.

64bit Windows is unlikely to work, if only because there are no 64bit drivers for the scope hardware (and the antique C&T GPU).

Meh, E6700 is OK but I wouldn't call that lightning fast, especially with the original GPU 

Considering the difficulties caused by the hardware mixing of desktop and waveform display I'd say that is probably as good as it gets with these scopes.

[lukier]

That wouldn't help. You need a hardware mixer to overlay the waveform image onto the graphics content, and that needs to happen in the GPU. Older graphics cards (i.e. Radeon 7000/VE and Geforce 2 MX) had a pin connector for hardware overlay, but that is gone from newer cards. And on-board graphics pretty much always lacked the hw overlay inputs.

Once you found a card old enough to support hw overlay (which will very likely be AGP and not PCIe) then you only have to connect the overlay data output to the overlay input of the graphics card. That doesn't help with the performance, though, as the update rate and number (or lack) of intensity grading is determined by the waveform engine.

I thought (based on the diagram in the service manual) that it is other way around. PC generates whatever image it normally generates (windows desktop, scope app etc) and feeds this video (parallel video bus?) to the "Display Board" that replaces specific pixels (RGB color 10,9,9) with the hardware rendered waveform. See this post:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/who-uses-lecroy-scopes-with-xstream-software/msg450337/#msg450337

So an LVDS -> Parallel -> FPGA -> "Display Board" might work, but probably 640x480 only anyway. Still, a lot of work.

LCD is also connected to the display board, not the GFX card. But as I've said, I don't have the scope, just guessing based on the service manual.

Considering the difficulties caused by the hardware mixing of desktop and waveform display I'd say that is probably as good as it gets with these scopes.

I guess that too. A bit of a bummer. But even this motherboard is an improvement, with SATA, one PCIe slot for USB 3.0 for example, plenty of USB and somehow faster CPU.

[Berni]

Very interesting project you have there. I had a look at these scopes before but reading trough various documentation online it was quickly operant that all the weird oldschool hardware would probably put up a fight. I was considering trying to score one on the cheep to upgrade in to a proper modern scope.

However i do have a DSO9000 here that i got the same idea with. I already have a small form factor industrial motherboard that should fit in it while supporting anything socket 1150 so up to latest haswell stuff. On top of that it does also have a LVDS video output connector that should work with the display in it.

The process of upgrading that should be pretty smooth as the only connection to the actual scope part is trough two SATA cables that are used to bring over the signals of a PCIe 1x bus. So all thats needed to make it work is a converter PCB that turns one PCIe slot in to two sata connector with the right pinout. Software side of things is easy since the scopes run windows 7 from the factory (I hope they didn't 'upgrade' from win 7 yet). On this scope i would expect to get a significant speed boost from a modern CPU as all of the waveform rendering is done on the CPU. A little bit of it could be happening on the GPU since it is using DirectX, but i assume that's mostly to get things on to the screen quickly.

And yes the scope software for infiniium scopes installs just fine on a regular PC where it can be used to open up the waveform files and look trough them. It appears that the installation process for it detects its running on a scope since when installing it on the actual scope it really went to town and barfed Keysight branding all over the OS by replacing the wallpapers, login screens etc.

I had the guts of the infiniium software open in IDA Pro for other reasons, but it has probably changed way too much to be applicable for the version you run. As far as i remember the list of scope hardware info inside the code did not have scopes this old, but its hard to be sure since a lot of code names show up in there (The newer scopes all seam to be code named after dinosaurs)

[Wuerstchenhund]

That wouldn't help. You need a hardware mixer to overlay the waveform image onto the graphics content, and that needs to happen in the GPU. Older graphics cards (i.e. Radeon 7000/VE and Geforce 2 MX) had a pin connector for hardware overlay, but that is gone from newer cards. And on-board graphics pretty much always lacked the hw overlay inputs.

Once you found a card old enough to support hw overlay (which will very likely be AGP and not PCIe) then you only have to connect the overlay data output to the overlay input of the graphics card. That doesn't help with the performance, though, as the update rate and number (or lack) of intensity grading is determined by the waveform engine.

I thought (based on the diagram in the service manual) that it is other way around. PC generates whatever image it normally generates (windows desktop, scope app etc) and feeds this video (parallel video bus?) to the "Display Board" that replaces specific pixels (RGB color 10,9,9) with the hardware rendered waveform.

No, that's not the case:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_overlay

HW overlay happens in the GPU where some area of the video memory is reserved for streaming data from an external device (i.e. a TV card, or the waveform engine of an Infiniium 54800 scope), and where the GPU replaces ("overlays") a specific color set with data from that reserved memory.

See this post:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/who-uses-lecroy-scopes-with-xstream-software/msg450337/#msg450337

Lukas' post just confirms that. Because it happens all in the GPU the trick he describes to give the UI the stencil color (which results in parts of the UI replaced by the overlay image) can work.

So an LVDS -> Parallel -> FPGA -> "Display Board" might work, but probably 640x480 only anyway.

No, it wouldn't. You need a GPU with hardware overlay support (which pretty much means 10+yr old AGP or PCI cards), and then convert the output to LVDS for the LCD panel.

LCD is also connected to the display board, not the GFX card.

Very likely just to convert the digital interface of the antique C&T 65550 to LVDS for the TFT panel.

But as I've said, I don't have the scope, just guessing based on the service manual.

Considering the difficulties caused by the hardware mixing of desktop and waveform display I'd say that is probably as good as it gets with these scopes.

I guess that too. A bit of a bummer. But even this motherboard is an improvement, with SATA, one PCIe slot for USB 3.0 for example, plenty of USB and somehow faster CPU.

But is it really worth it when the scope performance is not improved? I'm not sure I could be bothered to spend the time and money for little improvement, at least if I had a fully working scope. On a scope with a defective mainboard, maybe (but even there I'd probably just look for a cheap drop-in replacement).

[Jwalling]

Not surprising regarding the driver, considering that there are no new drivers for that ancient graphics chipset since Windows95.

Those scopes came with Windows XP, unless they were sold to the military.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Not surprising regarding the driver, considering that there are no new drivers for that ancient graphics chipset since Windows95.

Those scopes came with Windows XP, unless they were sold to the military.

That is not true. The original Infiniiums were sold with Windows95 and shortly after Windows98 on the general market (there wasn't a WindowsXP in 1998, and there weren't any special military versions of any Infiniium scope). The move to WindowsXP only came later (around 2002) in an attempt to move away from Windows9x, which also brought improved stability.

The WindowsXP driver for the C&T 65550 is pretty much a repackaged NT4 driver.

[Jwalling]

Not surprising regarding the driver, considering that there are no new drivers for that ancient graphics chipset since Windows95.

Those scopes came with Windows XP, unless they were sold to the military.

That is not true. The original Infiniiums were sold with Windows95 and shortly after Windows98 on the general market (there wasn't a WindowsXP in 1998, and there weren't any special military versions of any Infiniium scope).

Regarding Windows, that's true for the first generation 54810A, 15A, 20A, 25A, 35A, and 45A. The N versions were for the military (US Navy), but there was no difference in them hardware-wise. The N versions could not come from Malaysia, only the US or Singapore. However, on the second generation scopes (54831B etc.) The M versions for the military (US Marines) came with Windows 98, while the rest were shipped with Windows XP. Once again, the military versions could not come from Malaysia.

The move to WindowsXP only came later (around 2002) in an attempt to move away from Windows9x, which also brought improved stability.

No argument there!

The WindowsXP driver for the C&T 65550 is pretty much a repackaged NT4 driver.

That I'm not so sure about...

[Howardlong]

FWIW, although of limited value, here is some documentation on the CT65550. I'm not suggesting trying to hack this, it's just for idle interest purposes: it's almost 20 years old!

http://vesta.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/ftp/pub/Linux/suse/people/eich/.forMats/010177007.pdf

http://www.chinaeds.com/zl/Laoli%5CC%5CChips%5Cpo52_4.pdf

[Wuerstchenhund]

Regarding Windows, that's true for the first generation 54810A, 15A, 20A, 25A, 35A, and 45A. The N versions were for the military (US Navy), but there was no difference in them hardware-wise. The N versions could not come from Malaysia, only the US or Singapore. However, on the second generation scopes (54831B etc.) The M versions for the military (US Marines) came with Windows 98, while the rest were shipped with Windows XP. Once again, the military versions could not come from Malaysia.

The B variants like the 54831B were initially also sold with Windows98 and only got XP shortly after (starting with a specific S/N). We had a few of the very early ones (some of the first units available in Europe) back then.

As you say the military versions were merely regulatory variants (limited to certain countries of origin) and not really a different product with differing hardware. Later M versions were also shipped with XP, similar to the commercial variants, although it took longer for the M variants due to the outstanding XP accreditation.

The WindowsXP driver for the C&T 65550 is pretty much a repackaged NT4 driver.

That I'm not so sure about...

Just try to get the XP driver to work correctly in a fully ACPI-compliant system (it works in Plug'n'Play compatible PCI systems, aside from ISA/EISA/VLB/MCA with their respective ressource allocation schemes), or to support power management that goes beyond DPMS (i.e. Standby/STR, or the various ACPI Sx modes) without hacks/workarounds. It's not supported because the driver pretty much only supports what was in NT4, because at the core it is the same NT4 driver.

[Howardlong]

Here's that pic of the hacked IO shield compared to a clean unit. This is not a procedure I fancy doing. I am currently have a shallow microATX on an adapter base, and use appropriate internal risers as necessary. I did try a mini ITX and a DTX board with single or dual PCIe to multi-PCI adapters but it wasn't very successful. Using three individual PCIe 1x to PCI adapters with risers has so far proven much more resilient in terms of card power distribution and signal integrity.

[Jwalling]

The B variants like the 54831B were initially also sold with Windows98 and only got XP shortly after (starting with a specific S/N). We had a few of the very early ones (some of the first units available in Europe) back then.

Interesting. I've never seen Win98 on the B versions, and I've worked on many of them. Your first-hand experience trumps mine. Thanks.

[Howardlong]

I had another go last night using a miniATX board, Gigabyte H110M-DS2, and three PCIe to PCI risers. Processor I used was already installed, an I3-6320, but I am sure any supported processor will work.

Unlike previous attempts, I used an original Agilent recovery image expanded to 60GB. This is based on XP SP2 and Infiniivision 3.70 from about 2003/2004. I've never been able to make the documented recovery process work, so to recover that image, I used an XP VMWare VM on another machine with the scope's disk connected to a PATA to USB adapter, and attached the disk to the VM as a physical device. From there I could access the .GHO image. Booting an ISO of my own copy of Ghost 9.0 from many years ago, again in a VM, I restored the .GHO to another SSD and made sure it would boot on the scope. At this point I made an Acronis True Image image of the SSD.

Backing up and restoring disk images with new hardware is about ten times faster than trying to do it on the scope with its original hardware, even in a VM.

A fiddly thing about using a newer mobo is that I found that the UEFI graphical BIOS setup and boot selection doesn't always work with the old CT65550 graphics board. I had to keep removing and reinserting the display board pair as appropriate and use the board's integrated graphics when I needed to boot off my USB drive. I could try setting various parameters in the UEFI BIOS but there are many options, and I chose to leave that for another time, and I've been down that rabbit hole already without much luck. I also wanted to see how far I could go with default CMOS settings.

All I needed to do to boot the restored image was to retrofit the Skylake SATA drivers from Win-raid http://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html ("Universal 32bit Intel RST AHCI+RAID driver v11.2.0.1006 mod+signed by Fernando"). I used Acronis True Image 2016 Universal Restore to retrofit the AHCI drivers. There was no messing about with any ACPI settings that I've needed to do before.

You may find you can achieve the same thing by slipstreaming the Skylake AHCI drivers into an XP distribution using something like nLite, and doing a repair install, but this will take quite a bit more time.

After that, I loaded the various Agilent specific drivers from a CD I'd made up with the .infs etc (see OP).

I ran the postsysprep.bat batch file in the C:\PciFilter directory from a command prompt as Administrator with execute protection disabled, and allowed a reboot.

At this stage, the scope app works, as do ACPI power functions. There are about five motherboard drivers missing, most notably no USB, Ethernet or HD audio plus a couple of other bus related drivers. I'll deal with those later once the OS is upgraded.

One further note, the OS is somewhat unsurprisingly requesting activation now, for which I have three days' grace. Hopefully it will allow me to to upgrade to Vista first before needing to do that.

I recommend using a modern SATA attached DVD drive at this stage as I have found the one in the scope doesn't read all disks, such as DVD+R for example, one of those irritations of the dim and distant past!

[Howardlong]

I did some more mostly dead end work on this today except for the following...

O As speculated, the existence of a CT65550 board pair does indeed directly determine whether it's detected as an 5483x or 8000 series when running the 5.71 software on a recovery XP install. The scope will run on the VP22 onboard graphics at XGA, showing as an MSO8104A, but at about 5-10 screen updates/s. Reinstalling the CT65550 makes it run rather more fluidly on the CT65550 board, but it only measure s about 220 wfm/s even so.

O On the stock VP22 motherboard running the recovery XP but with the 5.71 scope, and without the CT65550 board, despite it only running at 5-10 screen updates/s with the onboard 815 graphics, and recognised as an MSO8104A, it is rock solid in XGA, and my previous comments about the flakiness on a Skylake build when running equivalent time sampling could not be reproduced.

[Howardlong]

I revisited this yesterday, trying three motherboards from three generations of chipsets with CPUs biased towards single threading speed with reasonably low TDPs, each using integrated/chipset graphics rather than the CT65550 PCI graphics & overlay combo cards, and with an integrated PCI slot.

The software install was using the recovered XP SP2 (plus Infiniium 5.71 software*) with appropriate AHCI, ACPI and HAL adjustments, and, apart from the Skylake board, all the XP drivers loaded.

Once installed with the GPIB/scope PCI interface board, the eight or so drivers were installed, and the scope app started up in all cases without any further adjustments. The scope app runs at either 640x480 or 1024x768. the scope is recognised as an MSO8104A, I assume because the CT65550 isn't present.

If this works I'll look at getting a conversion from VGA or DVI to LCD. Already I have a couple of Mitsubishi XGA 8.4" screens with appropriate VGA & DVI/HDMI interface adapters, but I haven't done a fit check yet.

In all three cases, previous problems that I'd encountered earlier such as with equivalent time or trigger jitter were not present. This was actually part of the test, I was suspecting that there was some contention in timing between the three PCI boards and the external PCIe-PCI bridges I'd been using.

The test signals I used were a 1MHz sine wave 100% AM modulated at 1kHz, and a <33ps TDR pulse from an HP 54121A.

E8600 Core 2 Duo (3.33GHz) LGA 775 Intel DG41AN mini-ITX

This seemed to work the best out of all three options, but also is the slowest performing, although compared to the 1GHz Pentium III on the original motherboard it's like night and day. There were no faults as far as I could ascertain with the limited testing I did, but I'd prefer to do more extensive testing. This board had the only "native" PCI slot in the test, directly supported by the chipset and not requiring a PCIe-PCI bridge.

i3-3250 Ivy Bridge (3.5GHz) LGA 1155 Gigabyte GA-H61N-D2V mini-ITX

The screen update rate is good enough although at first it seemed to have a few short pauses which disappeared later in the test. I'm not sure why this would be, the unit wasn't connected to the LAN, perhaps it was the indexing service, but this was using an SSD. Some screen corruption was present in the measurements section, with the area frequently not being updated: minimising and re-maximising fixed it, but the problem was frequent enough to make it pretty unusable in its current state. The PCI slot is via a PCIe-PCI bridge on the motherboard as the H61 chipset does not support PCI directly.

i3-6320 Skylake (3.9GHz) LGA 1151 on an MSI H110M Pro VHL micro-ATX

This works but the screen update rate is extraordinarily slow, about once every couple of seconds, so unusable in this state. I am not sure if this is because there are a large number of motherboard drivers, including integrated graphics, that aren't available in XP. The underlying waveform update rate is much more reasonable. The PCI slot is via an on-board PCIE-PCI bridge as Skylake chipsets don't support native PCI.

I couldn't get the right HAL/ACPI to properly control the soft power settings, although if the OS is upgraded this would be resolved.

Summary

The next steps are to see if some the performance problems on the Skylake are resolved by upgrading to Windows 7 and using proper drivers. Bearing in mind that so much on the motherboard just doesn't work on Skylake running XP, such as USB, upgrading the OS on the platform is pretty much a necessity anyway.

I also have concerns as to whether the option keys will work any more bearing in mind the scope now thinks it's an MSO8104A and not a 54832B.

*Edit to specify I was using builds based on the recovery build plus Infiniium 5.71 scope software.

[Berni]

Interesting how widely different it behaves on different hardware.

The license keys are purely based on the serial numbers on most scopes. Id assume its the same on these old infiniiums. From digging around in the new infiinium software it seams like the serial number might be stored on the acquisition board, but i have not tried a clean install of the software to know for sure. The software holds the license keys in plain text file somewhere in the win 7 "User Data" directory, so its easy to pull them off if you like, since this is considered legacy licenses id assume the old infiniiums do this too (They are moving to FlexLM floating licenses).

[free_electron]

the virtual memory trick may have to do with these machines still creating a ramdrive ....

[Howardlong]

the virtual memory trick may have to do with these machines still creating a ramdrive ....

Hmm, intriguing, I may be living under a rock, but what virtual memory trick are you referring to?

[Jwalling]

the virtual memory trick may have to do with these machines still creating a ramdrive ....

Hmm, intriguing, I may be living under a rock, but what virtual memory trick are you referring to?

I think he may be referring to the previous generation Infiniium (54825A, etc.) that ran Windows 98 and came with 64MB of memory. The scope application would offload to a 16MB ram drive so the hard drive could be put into standbye.

[free_electron]

by te wy : latest frimware for the 5483x machines is here : http://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?ckey=566904&lc=eng&cc=US&nid=-32412.536882503&id=566904

( a bit hard to find on the new site ... )
they also have older revs on that page ...

[Howardlong]

Some more older stuff here: ftp://ftp.keysight.com/pub/callpub3/ddt/scope/548xx/Upg_Rec/

By the way I neglected to mention that I upgraded the recovered partition to 5.71, I've since added that to the steps.

[Howardlong]

Here's a further update regarding the use of integrated graphics rather than the 65550 PCI card pair.

It is now clear that the slow update rate is caused by using the OS's generic display driver. This means that for Skylake, which doesn't have a full suite of XP (or Vista) drivers, you need to upgrade to Windows 7.

Note that the only supported in-place upgrade from XP Pro to Windows 7 is XP Pro -> Vista Ultimate -> Windows 7 Ulimate. I've been unable to to get a fresh install OS to work, but I may try again at some point. I have also now been able to take my current working XP VP22 image and get it working on a Skylake board, upgrading it to Windows 7.

Furthermore, there seems to be some incompatibility between running the 548xx PCI GPIB/acquisition cards with the agscope app in 1024x768 mode. This first manifested itself a lot earlier where I'd noticed that ETS was showing nonsense, but I hadn't figured out why. To make matters worse, sometimes it does work at 1024x768, so I spent quite a bit of time fiddling about with fixing PCI allocations etc but I now believe that when it worked it was by luck, and memory is being incorrectly accessed at the higher resolution. The same applies to all operating systems, from XP to Windows 7.

Using 640x480 resolution while using integrated graphics works flawlessly. Owing to the application's font resizing between XGA and CGA, somewhat surprisingly, subjectively I couldn't identify a huge amount of benefit going to XGA anyway.

The waveform update rate increases from a maximum of about 300Wfm/s in the factory config (PIII 1GHz with PCI 65550 graphics) to 7kWfm/s with a Skylake i3-6520 at 3.9GHz on integrated graphics.

The benefit of using the integrated graphics is that unlike the 65550 display, it supports intensity grading.

With some external PCIe to PCI riser bridges, I've seen alot of trigger jitter, but have never seen it on motherboards with an integrated PCI slot, either through an on-board PCIe-PCI bridge or a PCI connection direct from the southbridge.

The built-in 8.4" 640x480 display, which is parallel, not LVDS, is Agilent part number 2090-0396, aka Mitsubishi AA084VB02. Getting VGA, DVI or HDMI controller interfaces for this doesn't seem too easy, although it would make a nice FPGA project which I haven't ruled out, but I'm quite time poor at the moment.

The next step is to see if I can slip in an off the shelf VGA/DVI/HDMI 8.4" LVDS display/controller board combo at 640x480 resolution.

[Berni]

That looks quite promising by now.

Parallel RGB bus display panels are the easiest to convert from other formats. There are single chip solutions for making RGB out of HDMI/DVI, LVDS, VGA etc. We did that a lot since a lot of modern embedded CPUs don't have RGB buses anymore.

Industrial motherboard with LVDS and a chip to convert to RGB is probably the most elegant. I been looking into those for potentially upgrading my MSO9000 (LVDS panel in it). I found that in most of my cases a adapter cable is still necessary to adjust the pin out and connector type since there appears to be very little standardization around these connectors. Even if the connector seams to fit its best to double check as they tend to have +12V on them(For backlight and stuff). Those pins getting wired wrong would certainly give you a bad day.

[bigeblis]

I revisited this yesterday, trying three motherboards from three generations of chipsets with CPUs biased towards single threading speed with reasonably low TDPs, each using integrated/chipset graphics rather than the CT65550 PCI graphics & overlay combo cards, and with an integrated PCI slot.

The software install was using the recovered XP SP2 (plus Infiniium 5.71 software*) with appropriate AHCI, ACPI and HAL adjustments, and, apart from the Skylake board, all the XP drivers loaded.

Once installed with the GPIB/scope PCI interface board, the eight or so drivers were installed, and the scope app started up in all cases without any further adjustments. The scope app runs at either 640x480 or 1024x768. the scope is recognised as an MSO8104A, I assume because the CT65550 isn't present.

If this works I'll look at getting a conversion from VGA or DVI to LCD. Already I have a couple of Mitsubishi XGA 8.4" screens with appropriate VGA & DVI/HDMI interface adapters, but I haven't done a fit check yet.

In all three cases, previous problems that I'd encountered earlier such as with equivalent time or trigger jitter were not present. This was actually part of the test, I was suspecting that there was some contention in timing between the three PCI boards and the external PCIe-PCI bridges I'd been using.

The test signals I used were a 1MHz sine wave 100% AM modulated at 1kHz, and a <33ps TDR pulse from an HP 54121A.

E8600 Core 2 Duo (3.33GHz) LGA 775 Intel DG41AN mini-ITX

This seemed to work the best out of all three options, but also is the slowest performing, although compared to the 1GHz Pentium III on the original motherboard it's like night and day. There were no faults as far as I could ascertain with the limited testing I did, but I'd prefer to do more extensive testing. This board had the only "native" PCI slot in the test, directly supported by the chipset and not requiring a PCIe-PCI bridge.

i3-3250 Ivy Bridge (3.5GHz) LGA 1155 Gigabyte GA-H61N-D2V mini-ITX

The screen update rate is good enough although at first it seemed to have a few short pauses which disappeared later in the test. I'm not sure why this would be, the unit wasn't connected to the LAN, perhaps it was the indexing service, but this was using an SSD. Some screen corruption was present in the measurements section, with the area frequently not being updated: minimising and re-maximising fixed it, but the problem was frequent enough to make it pretty unusable in its current state. The PCI slot is via a PCIe-PCI bridge on the motherboard as the H61 chipset does not support PCI directly.

i3-6320 Skylake (3.9GHz) LGA 1151 on an MSI H110M Pro VHL micro-ATX

This works but the screen update rate is extraordinarily slow, about once every couple of seconds, so unusable in this state. I am not sure if this is because there are a large number of motherboard drivers, including integrated graphics, that aren't available in XP. The underlying waveform update rate is much more reasonable. The PCI slot is via an on-board PCIE-PCI bridge as Skylake chipsets don't support native PCI.

I couldn't get the right HAL/ACPI to properly control the soft power settings, although if the OS is upgraded this would be resolved.

Summary

The next steps are to see if some the performance problems on the Skylake are resolved by upgrading to Windows 7 and using proper drivers. Bearing in mind that so much on the motherboard just doesn't work on Skylake running XP, such as USB, upgrading the OS on the platform is pretty much a necessity anyway.

I also have concerns as to whether the option keys will work any more bearing in mind the scope now thinks it's an MSO8104A and not a 54832B.

*Edit to specify I was using builds based on the recovery build plus Infiniium 5.71 scope software.

Hello there
I also tried the 54830D PC upgrade, I currently use the E8500 + GA P43-ES3G configuration, it has a native of five PCI slots. However, I restore the original WindowsXP system backup to the new motherboard, it prompts me to activate, and enter the machine comes with the CD-KEY is invalid, this causes the machine can not run, so I try to completely reinstall a system.
I use the original system backup folder inf and system32 to get the hardware driver, and have all the equipment to get the driver, but I installed the application software, has not been completed correctly, and eventually lead to agscop operation error.
Do you know what exactly need to install the software Caixing it?

[Howardlong]

I had a similar problem after doing an XP repair install to get the OS to work on a new motherboard (resetting AHCI and ACPI settings) using retail edition media from my MSDN subscription. I think may be because the key on the scope is an OEM or volume licence key which won't work with the retail edition, so you need to use the retail edition's key instead.

I also found that sometimes it gets stuck in a rebooting catch 22 loop where I couldn't activate. To correct this, I restarted in safe mode and re-installed IE 8 in safe mode, which then allowed me to activate. Sounds bizarre, but that's how I fixed it, apparently it's a known feature.

[free_electron]

the agilent provided win XP key looks for a marker in the VP22 bios. if that marker is not there it will not take the key.
Older VP22 boards (on machines that did not come with XP) sometimes didn't have the marker. You need to update the bios in that case

[bigeblis]

I had a similar problem after doing an XP repair install to get the OS to work on a new motherboard (resetting AHCI and ACPI settings) using retail edition media from my MSDN subscription. I think may be because the key on the scope is an OEM or volume licence key which won't work with the retail edition, so you need to use the retail edition's key instead.

I also found that sometimes it gets stuck in a rebooting catch 22 loop where I couldn't activate. To correct this, I restarted in safe mode and re-installed IE 8 in safe mode, which then allowed me to activate. Sounds bizarre, but that's how I fixed it, apparently it's a known feature.

Use only the retail version of the system? Let me try.

[bigeblis]

the agilent provided win XP key looks for a marker in the VP22 bios. if that marker is not there it will not take the key.
Older VP22 boards (on machines that did not come with XP) sometimes didn't have the marker. You need to update the bios in that case

But I have already seen the use of other examples of successful operation of the main board, there should be ways to bypass the inspection mechanism that you say?

[plesa]

Maybe try following utility for key transfer ( I did not tested it)
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/rweverything.html

Or use XP for volume licensing, which does not require activation.
Look into setupp.ini
Retail: 76487335
Volume License: 76487270
OEM: 76487OEM

[bigeblis]

Maybe try following utility for key transfer ( I did not tested it)
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/rweverything.html

Or use XP for volume licensing, which does not require activation.
Look into setupp.ini
Retail: 76487335
Volume License: 76487270
OEM: 76487OEM

This software never used, try!

[bigeblis]

the agilent provided win XP key looks for a marker in the VP22 bios. if that marker is not there it will not take the key.
Older VP22 boards (on machines that did not come with XP) sometimes didn't have the marker. You need to update the bios in that case

I have a 54830B and 54830D each one, 54830B is the VP22 motherboard, but the 54830D uses the M-815 motherboard, they have Agilent's boot flag, obviously not mandatory to specify the VP22 motherboard is the premise of XP mode of work. In addition, Agilent's upgrade instructions do not seem to specify a range of XP serial numbers that can be escalated and can only be specified to upgrade to a 128M deep storage serial number range. So I think the replacement of the motherboard should be feasible.

[andy2000]

OEM windows XP looks for a marker in the BIOS.  At least that's how it works with name brand computers that came with XP (eg. Dell).  There are ways to add the code to any BIOS.  If you look around, you'll find utilities that can automatically add it to almost any BIOS image.  Then it's just a matter of flashing it.  You may have to import a new OEM key into XP if you can't find an Agilent BIOS code, or extract it from the old BIOS. 

Assuming the scope has an XP key sticker on it, have you tried doing phone activation?  MS might be willing to transfer it considering how old XP is.

[Howardlong]

I've done at least half a dozen XP phone activations in the past couple of months on this project, I can't remember if any were with just the original installation though. I definitely did several after doing a repair with a retail version to fix AHCI and ACPI.

[bigeblis]

OEM windows XP looks for a marker in the BIOS.  At least that's how it works with name brand computers that came with XP (eg. Dell).  There are ways to add the code to any BIOS.  If you look around, you'll find utilities that can automatically add it to almost any BIOS image.  Then it's just a matter of flashing it.  You may have to import a new OEM key into XP if you can't find an Agilent BIOS code, or extract it from the old BIOS. 

Assuming the scope has an XP key sticker on it, have you tried doing phone activation?  MS might be willing to transfer it considering how old XP is.

So, should extract the original motherboard BIOS, analysis of the internal SN?

[bigeblis]

I've done at least half a dozen XP phone activations in the past couple of months on this project, I can't remember if any were with just the original installation though. I definitely did several after doing a repair with a retail version to fix AHCI and ACPI.

I'm going to try to install the new system and drivers on the original motherboard, with the new motherboards in exactly the same steps, as well as the application, to see if this works properly.

[bigeblis]

According to my attempt, in the original motherboard to install XP SP2 retail system, can not be used. Although the program list, all the procedures and original system looks exactly the same, but agscop operation is a failure.

[Howardlong]

This evening I tried a little esperiment.

With the original board, P III CPU etc, I removed the two graphics/display cards and replaced them wih the best PCI graphics card I could find, an old HD 4350, which even sports and HDMI output as well as DVI and VGA.

Before doing is, I took some waveform update rate measurements using Agilent's own test criteria documented in the scope's data sheet. This entails turning off all measurements, single channel, no deep memory, no sin x/x and no joining the dots, I achieved pretty close to book figures of about 3.2kwfm/s. Turning on joining the dots halved that.

After loading the drivers, the main scope app runs and thinks it's an MSO8104A, so a good start.

This time, the waveform update rate under the same criteria was up to about 4.1kwfm/s, but this time joining up the dots made little if any difference, so it was using the card's own interpolation.

I did a few other tests, to see how reliable it was, and to check out the intensity grading, which is quite an improvement. I couldn't find any problems, so I increased the resolution from the stock 640x480 to 1024x768 which is standard for an MSO8000 series scope. In the past this has proved unreliable when using equivalent time sampling, but this time I couldn't get it to fail at all, which leads me to believe that the MSO8000 might well use the same acquisition hardware as the 54830D series after all.

Next step is to see if I can fit a third party LCD. I have both a VGA and an XGA panel with the right screen size, and VGA/DVI/HDMI driver boards for them, the problem is whether or not they'll physically fit.

[Berni]

That's interesting. Is it possible that it simply did not like the other graphics card, but works fine with a lot of the cards out there?

Also this makes is so that you only need a working driver for the acquisition board, everything else is standard PC peripherals right?

[bigeblis]

This evening I tried a little esperiment.

With the original board, P III CPU etc, I removed the two graphics/display cards and replaced them wih the best PCI graphics card I could find, an old HD 4350, which even sports and HDMI output as well as DVI and VGA.

Before doing is, I took some waveform update rate measurements using Agilent's own test criteria documented in the scope's data sheet. This entails turning off all measurements, single channel, no deep memory, no sin x/x and no joining the dots, I achieved pretty close to book figures of about 3.2kwfm/s. Turning on joining the dots halved that.

After loading the drivers, the main scope app runs and thinks it's an MSO8104A, so a good start.

This time, the waveform update rate under the same criteria was up to about 4.1kwfm/s, but this time joining up the dots made little if any difference, so it was using the card's own interpolation.

I did a few other tests, to see how reliable it was, and to check out the intensity grading, which is quite an improvement. I couldn't find any problems, so I increased the resolution from the stock 640x480 to 1024x768 which is standard for an MSO8000 series scope. In the past this has proved unreliable when using equivalent time sampling, but this time I couldn't get it to fail at all, which leads me to believe that the MSO8000 might well use the same acquisition hardware as the 54830D series after all.

Next step is to see if I can fit a third party LCD. I have both a VGA and an XGA panel with the right screen size, and VGA/DVI/HDMI driver boards for them, the problem is whether or not they'll physically fit.

Really interesting! I ask you how to solve non-original graphics, "agscop" operation of the procedures being given the problem? Or as long as the PCI graphics card can be directly normal operation?
I only do the original motherboard replaced GA-P43-ES3G, the system can run the point.

[bigeblis]

Today I try the "Howardlong" approach, I found that does not require the use of original motherboard and PCI interface card, can also get a "MSO8102A", although this type of Anilent has never been sold too.
I was on a 54833D for this experiment, the machine's hardware configuration for GA-P43-ES3G/E8500/4GB/INTEL 710 100GB/nVIDIA FX1800. After pulling out the original 65550 graphics card boot, the program can run normally (starting speed is much slower than the original), and automatically into the XGA resolution display.
I do not have a waveform update rate test (because I did not get the manual test), just a visual comparison with another 54833B, it is clear that "MSO8102A" is much higher. I hope Howardlong can share the test program, let me check the different video card waveform update rate.
Finally, this machine is refitted, lost the original deep storage options, but also because the motherboard replacement, the serial number has become garbled. Do not know who can share the deep crack type storage options way? Thank you in advance!
 

[bigeblis]

Then I found that I could not find the option to turn on 256 levels of brightness?

[Howardlong]

The Chips & Technologies driver I am pretty sure makes a mess of the registry which is why, when attempting to upgrade the motherboard, getting it to behave can be quite hard. I have noticed the same symptom, I can't remember the scenario though. I have dozens and dozens of versions of disk image backups at various stages on an assortment of boards over the past three months or so!

I am reasonably confident that forgetting about the C&T board pair is the way to go if you don't mind replacing the LCD.

[bigeblis]

I was considering replacing the original LCD monitor, it is a 8.4-inch VGA screen. I'm looking for a 8.4-inch XGA screen, and already have a possible supply.
Then, I need to FX 1800 graphics card on the analog video output from the internal access to the new screen on the screen, thus completing the conversion.
Finally, on the system migration, you can try to make changes on the machine, using Microsoft's Sysprep tool, I do.

[bigeblis]

I tested the waveform update rate using a 50 MHz signal with a 5 ns timebase setting and made a table where the MSO8014A data is from Howard Long and the five measurements are Freq / Vpp / ACVrms / DCVrms / Vamp.
You can see the performance of the graphics card to the update rate to bring additional enhancements to install FX1800 the MSO8012A, the maximum update rate from the HD4350 4.1K upgrade to 8.8K, while the open Conntect Dots are 4.7K, even the slowest, open Sin (x) / x, Conntect Dots and five measurement settings, but also from the original 0.2K upgrade to 0.5K, although it seems still very slow, but more original models, with more than 100% upgrade.
Therefore, I decided to install a better performance of the next video card to see the results.

[Howardlong]

This is the XGA display I have (AA084XB01). I don't know yet if it fits though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252635504458

I also have a VGA display ready (AA084VC03), that was from Amazon but the ad isn't there any more. For each display I have an appropriate VGA/DVI/HDMI converter for when/if the time comes.

[Howardlong]

Make sure the scope still works _reliably_ in ETS mode: I found that the app would crash or display nonsense in some circumstances.

[bigeblis]

Screen replacement model I have selected, is NEC's NL10276BC16, it is 8.4-inch XGA display.
I have not opened a long time after the conversion of the machine, so you said the problem did not encounter.

[bigeblis]

Using the GPU-Z to monitor the GPU load, found only up to 12%! So FX1800 performance has been very enough, there is no need to switch to a higher performance graphics card.
Then, continuous operation for 4 hours, no abnormal situation. The setting is to turn on Sin (x) / x, Conntect Dots and five measurements.

[Howardlong]

The problem I have found is that, particularly at 1024x768, and in Windows 7, but also at other times, the application crashed or produced nonsense in Equivalent Time Sampling mode. Sometimes it worked, but after a reboot it broke, and often it wouldn't be recoverable at all other than restoring the last working image.

I seem to have a reasonably reliable Vista image at the moment, but it still occasionally breaks on application startup when the relays start clattering. After terminating the app's process, usually by killing it, it will start bu it warns that a bunch of settings have been reset. These don't seem to be anything on the acquisition board, and all the cal parameters are still safe, it just seems to be the app's presentation parameters and scope settings. This is on an i3-3250 mini ITX board with 2GB RAM and a PCI slot where the acquisition board is placed. I'm using the integrated graphics (Intel HD 2500) and have no problem with its speed in terms of waveform update rate (I nearly hit 10k wfm/s last night using a specially crafted set of settings).

When I upgraded it to Windows 7 on this board, I was unable to get the integrated graphics drivers to install so it uses the OS's default VGA drivers which don't perform at all well with very slow, unuseable, screen update rate (as opposed to waveform update rate).

If you're seeing 12% CPU, I'd imaging your processor has 8 logical cores. The agscope app is single threaded, so 12% is pretty much an entire logical core. The i3 I'm using presently is four logical cores and runs at 25% when the app is running.

The reasonably-working Vista build is simply an upgraded working scope XP image doing an update-in-place with Vista Ultimate.

[bigeblis]

No, I monitor the graphics load.
In addition, I do not think it is necessary to upgrade its operating system to 7. This does not seem to bring any additional performance boosts?
Finally, I think that the use of native PCI bus chipset to do this upgrade is better, such as P43 / B75 this. P43 motherboard + XP system is very stable. B75 I bought the motherboard, and have not time to test.

[bigeblis]

Then, you mentioned the application failed to start, lost settings, I have encountered. On my machine, the cause of the failure is that there is a PCI card above the battery is damaged. In addition, ACQ board FPGA chip, there is a row of pins between the leakage situation. Solve the problem, there is no longer encountered this situation. Of course, the system did not upgrade, only upgrade the hardware.

[Howardlong]

FWIW, I do have a B75 board that I bought for just the reason you mention, a native PCI slot, but haven't go around to using it yet.

[bigeblis]

You can try!
May be able to get a relatively high performance, and there will be no stability problems.

[bigeblis]

FWIW, I do have a B75 board that I bought for just the reason you mention, a native PCI slot, but haven't go around to using it yet.

Http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-infiniium-dso8000a-hacking-anyone-done-this/
See here that you have successfully opened all licenses. Can you tell me how to do it?

[Mrt12]

Anyone managed to upgrade the memory? I read in the forum here that the scope is equipped with 128M, mine shows only 2M (obviously, the previous owner did not buy the 128M option). But the RAM chips are all there on the mainboard, it should be possible to unlock things somehow. Any ideas?

[bigeblis]

Has been successful - but not including me

[Mrt12]

Any tips for the memory upgrade?

there is also the statement in the first post "There are a few other easy upgrades knocking around too if you do a bit of judicious Googling", but I didn't find anything. I wonder what other easy upgrades can be done?

[bigeblis]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-infiniium-dso8000a-hacking-anyone-done-this/

Here is more detailed, but I still do not understand.

[Howardlong]

Attached is an xdelta3.0.11 patch file for agscope.exe 5.71.

Code: [Select]

xdelta3-3.0.11-x86_64.exe -d -s agScope.exe delta agscopeNew.exe

MD5:

3c8e68f5dc7dd21ba83375cdce706b32 agscope.exe
d59b2f6f5d46ece50e42303951b89688 agscopenew.exe

Code: [Select]

Byte offset agscope.exe agscopeNew.exe

0x001AEF1A 0x85 0xE9
0x001AEF1B 0xC0 0xB7
0x001AEF1C 0x0F 0x01
0x001AEF1D 0x84 0x00
0x001AEF1E 0x94 0x00
0x001AEF1F 0x00 0xC3
0x001AEF20 0x00 0xC3
0x001AEF21 0x00 0xC3

0x001AF0D6 0xCC 0x85
0x001AF0D7 0xCC 0xC0
0x001AF0D8 0xCC 0x0F
0x001AF0D9 0xCC 0x84
0x001AF0DA 0xCC 0xD8
0x001AF0DB 0xCC 0xFE
0x001AF0DC 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0DD 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0DE 0xCC 0xEB
0x001AF0DF 0xCC 0x05

0x001AF0E5 0xCC 0x83
0x001AF0E6 0xCC 0xF8
0x001AF0E7 0xCC 0xF8
0x001AF0E8 0xCC 0x0F
0x001AF0E9 0xCC 0x85
0x001AF0EA 0xCC 0x34
0x001AF0EB 0xCC 0xFE
0x001AF0EC 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0ED 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0EE 0xCC 0xEB
0x001AF0EF 0xCC 0x13

0x001AF103 0xCC 0xB8
0x001AF104 0xCC 0x01
0x001AF105 0xCC 0x00
0x001AF106 0xCC 0x00
0x001AF107 0xCC 0x00
0x001AF108 0xCC 0xE9
0x001AF109 0xCC 0x16
0x001AF10A 0xCC 0xFE
0x001AF10B 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF10C 0xCC 0xFF


[bigeblis]

So many days have passed, I still did not complete this.
What system should it run under?

[bigeblis]

In winXP and Win10 system, it is reported as follows: unknown secondary compressor ID: XD3_INVALID_INPUT

[bigeblis]

Still did not learn how to get

[Howardlong]

Alternatively you could use your favourite hex editor to make the changes. I only offered the automated test method to save you the effort, I did spend time both testing and verifying the results, I am sorry it didn't work for you.

[bigeblis]

Just do not understand this kind of change, so, in fact, I did not understand those you said ....
Is it possible to provide a modified file?

[bigeblis]

Attached is an xdelta3.0.11 patch file for agscope.exe 5.71.

Code: [Select]

xdelta3-3.0.11-x86_64.exe -d -s agScope.exe delta agscopeNew.exe

MD5:

3c8e68f5dc7dd21ba83375cdce706b32 agscope.exe
d59b2f6f5d46ece50e42303951b89688 agscopenew.exe

Code: [Select]

Byte offset agscope.exe agscopeNew.exe

0x001AEF1A 0x85 0xE9
0x001AEF1B 0xC0 0xB7
0x001AEF1C 0x0F 0x01
0x001AEF1D 0x84 0x00
0x001AEF1E 0x94 0x00
0x001AEF1F 0x00 0xC3
0x001AEF20 0x00 0xC3
0x001AEF21 0x00 0xC3

0x001AF0D6 0xCC 0x85
0x001AF0D7 0xCC 0xC0
0x001AF0D8 0xCC 0x0F
0x001AF0D9 0xCC 0x84
0x001AF0DA 0xCC 0xD8
0x001AF0DB 0xCC 0xFE
0x001AF0DC 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0DD 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0DE 0xCC 0xEB
0x001AF0DF 0xCC 0x05

0x001AF0E5 0xCC 0x83
0x001AF0E6 0xCC 0xF8
0x001AF0E7 0xCC 0xF8
0x001AF0E8 0xCC 0x0F
0x001AF0E9 0xCC 0x85
0x001AF0EA 0xCC 0x34
0x001AF0EB 0xCC 0xFE
0x001AF0EC 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0ED 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF0EE 0xCC 0xEB
0x001AF0EF 0xCC 0x13

0x001AF103 0xCC 0xB8
0x001AF104 0xCC 0x01
0x001AF105 0xCC 0x00
0x001AF106 0xCC 0x00
0x001AF107 0xCC 0x00
0x001AF108 0xCC 0xE9
0x001AF109 0xCC 0x16
0x001AF10A 0xCC 0xFE
0x001AF10B 0xCC 0xFF
0x001AF10C 0xCC 0xFF


I am based on your instructions, modify the executable file, MD5 code the same. But the number of options displayed after the instrument is running is still 0? What else do I need to do?

[eurofox]

Somebody has already done an O/S upgrade on one of these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/%28urgent%29-agilent-54831d-mso-oscilloscope-4a16dig-new-motherboard-windows-7/

A pity he didn't share his experience.

Check here what he changed 

http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS/291821246325

[Howardlong]

Somebody has already done an O/S upgrade on one of these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/%28urgent%29-agilent-54831d-mso-oscilloscope-4a16dig-new-motherboard-windows-7/

A pity he didn't share his experience.

Check here what he changed 

http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS/291821246325

After many hours (days in fact!) of working on this, including a build with exactly the same board and processor he used, I'm yet to be convinced it was a stable build. In particular, there is a point at which, when using the delayed trace, it will become unstable and crash.

Either way, I didn't have an appetite to hack out the chassis to allow for a different IO shield unless I was 100% sure I had a stable build first. My metalwork skills ain't that good either!

This is back to a rainy day project for now, too busy on other stuff, and it was a real time pit.

[bigeblis]

Somebody has already done an O/S upgrade on one of these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/%28urgent%29-agilent-54831d-mso-oscilloscope-4a16dig-new-motherboard-windows-7/

A pity he didn't share his experience.

Check here what he changed 

http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS/291821246325

After many hours (days in fact!) of working on this, including a build with exactly the same board and processor he used, I'm yet to be convinced it was a stable build. In particular, there is a point at which, when using the delayed trace, it will become unstable and crash.

Either way, I didn't have an appetite to hack out the chassis to allow for a different IO shield unless I was 100% sure I had a stable build first. My metalwork skills ain't that good either!

This is back to a rainy day project for now, too busy on other stuff, and it was a real time pit.

According to my experience, this program must be specified to run using a single CPU core, using two or more cores to run it, resulting in an irregular crash, and the measurement display stops.

[Wuerstchenhund]

According to my experience, this program must be specified to run using a single CPU core, using two or more cores to run it, resulting in an irregular crash, and the measurement display stops.

I'm not sure that's the problem, as the same scope app (5.71) is used on the DSO8000 Series which runs on a Pentium4 platform, and my DSO8064A has HyperThreading enabled, i.e. Windows sees two CPU cores.

[Mrt12]

Hi all,
anything new on this? I wonder whether somebody has a tip for upgrading the options on the scopes running Win98? My unit has no agscope.exe, but a Ag5483x.exe. I think this patch won't work here.

[Howardlong]

Hi all,
anything new on this? I wonder whether somebody has a tip for upgrading the options on the scopes running Win98? My unit has no agscope.exe, but a Ag5483x.exe. I think this patch won't work here.

I spent far too many hours and days on this already, so although it was close, I didn’t want to commit to physically hacking the scope to accept a new motherboard: the I/O panel is not a clip in shield, its various cutouts are machined into the chassis.

For me the biggest problem is boot time, it takes a couple of minutes to start up even with an SSD and maxed out motherboard. I did get it to get to the app from cold boot in a few seconds with a new mobo and processor, but it wasn’t reliable in delayed sweep.

I believe that a Win98 unit may well need an upgraded motherboard. The one in mine is a Motorola VP22.

[Jwalling]

I believe that a Win98 unit may well need an upgraded motherboard. The one in mine is a Motorola VP22.

AFAIK, the 54830 series of scopes (except for the 54835A which was the previous generation) shipped with Pentium III based motherboards, so they all should be capable of running XP if there's enough memory installed.

[PnpNpn]

Hi guys,

Tell me please.I appeal to you for advice.
How to properly install Windows XP 32bit, On devices  Agilent 5483xx and 5485xx ?
For devices Agilent 5483xx and 5485xx, Need only English version of Windows XP 32bit ?
At the moment I have a problem with installing drivers for Agilent 5485xx.

Thank all in advance.

[nctnico]

You can't install Windows XP because the drivers are incompatible. There is no way around that.

[Converter]

You can't install Windows XP because the drivers are incompatible. There is no way around that.

He has deal with Agilent 54854, which, like 54830/54831, is suitable for working with Windows XP.

[PnpNpn]

hi,

Can anyone have the right files to the device  Agilent 5485?? ?
image disc Oscilloscope Recovery ?

[Tony_G]

I have the recovery files for a bunc of these scopes located here:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Amqar8_XQ9Uzj6YhN1xHdM8tQdKMOA

These images cover these models (read the InfiniiumUpgradeRecovery.pdf first):

Quick links
For models 54810A, 54815A, 54820A, 54825A, 54835A, 54845A, 54846A
For models 54845B and 54846B
For models 54830B, 54830D, 54831B, 54831D, 54832B, 54832D, 54833A, 54833D
For models 54853A, 54854A, and 54855A

I only used them for the 54845A so that is the only model I can speak for unfortunately.

As for getting the drivers, you may be able to use WinXP drivers on WIn98 and vice versa - I posted on that in another thread:

You can't use Win98 drivers on XP because the driver model is completely different.

That isn't completely correct.

Windows Driver Model (WDM) was introduced in Win98. The previous driver model was VxD and it is also supported in Win98. That said, the driver in the WinXP image may be based on WDM and may be able to be used on Win98 - WinXP introduced new WDM features so a WinXP WDM driver may not work on Win98/Win2K but a Win98/Win2K WDM driver will work on WinXP.

Of course the driver could also be based on Windows Driver Foundation and thus be basically XP and up (ignoring UMDF & KMDF distinctions).

So there is a chance that the driver from the XP image will work on the Win98 one.

Hope this helps.

TonyG

[PnpNpn]

Thanks  Tony_G for the help, What disk image do you recommend to use?
Watch attachments,in your archive was not found, disk image files, for the series 5485x.

regards, PnpNpn

I have the recovery files for a bunc of these scopes located here:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Amqar8_XQ9Uzj6YhN1xHdM8tQdKMOA

These images cover these models (read the InfiniiumUpgradeRecovery.pdf first):

[Tony_G]

What is the exact model number of the scope you have?

TonyG

[PnpNpn]

My scope  Agilent 54854A DSO.

regards, PnpNpn

[Tony_G]

I would start with the 3.5 recovery image then the 4.3 upgrade and finally the 4.5 upgrade. You could start 4.3 recovery but you'll need to build a boot ISO for it as it is expecting LS-120 disks.

The 3.5 ISO is "54845A\548xx\Upg_Rec\3_5\3_5-rec.iso"

TonyG

[PnpNpn]

My opinions, although I do not have experience with work scope.
series scope 5483xx, more new than series 5484xx. Series scope 5483xx,
about  were issued  At the same time  with a series 5485xx. Maybe I'm wrong..
But judging on embedded motherboards,  they are using improved  series scope 5483xx, 5485xx.

That's what I noticed:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-54831d-modernising/msg1067089/#msg1067089

regards,  PnpNpn

I would start with the 3.5 recovery image then the 4.3 upgrade and finally the 4.5 upgrade. You could start 4.3 recovery but you'll need to build a boot ISO for it as it is expecting LS-120 disks.

The 3.5 ISO is "54845A\548xx\Upg_Rec\3_5\3_5-rec.iso"

[Tony_G]

I'm not disagreeing as I don't really know - I had a early model 54845A and I started there. I also just grabbed the entire directory because Keysight will delete the FTP folders after 7 days or so.

That said, the PDF doesn't make a difference between those scopes - I'd just try it and see what happens - The process will take a couple of hours.

TonyG

[croma641]

Hi,

big problem here. I've got an Agilent 54831b with faulty motherboard.

In order to test the oscilloscope, I need a working Windows Xp image of an 831b or 832b (not  W98,
I must use an Intel motherboard that supports only Xp).

Can anyone (PAID) provide such image ?



thanks in advance !

[Tony_G]

I think there might be a recovery image in my OneDrive folder:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Amqar8_XQ9Uzj6YhN1xHdM8tQdKMOA

Go to "...\54845A\548xx\Upg_Rec\5483x" and check out the iso.

TonyG

[croma641]

Thanks, Tony_G, but it's a W98 image..

[bigeblis]

Hi guys,

Tell me please.I appeal to you for advice.
How to properly install Windows XP 32bit, On devices  Agilent 5483xx and 5485xx ?
For devices Agilent 5483xx and 5485xx, Need only English version of Windows XP 32bit ?
At the moment I have a problem with installing drivers for Agilent 5485xx.

Thank all in advance.

According to the results of my experiments, I installed the operating system, drivers, and application software myself and could not work properly. Don't know what Agilent does to the system!

[PnpNpn]

At you what at the moment problem?
Your device works ?

According to the results of my experiments, I installed the operating system, drivers, and application software myself and could not work properly. Don't know what Agilent does to the system!

[magore]

You can do a clean install of Windows 7 SP1 on a new motherboard.
( FYI I have a 54831b  - I modified my case cutting out the IO shield )

I ended up extracting all of the HKLM infiniium registry keys and classes from the HKLM part of the registry including parts relating to agilient services. This was done first on a fully updated Windows XP system with V571 of the Infiniium software and latest IO libries.
I got the original INF files from the recovery partition and edited them so they would look in the current directory for drivers.
Look for:       1 = %DiskId1%,,,""
Change it to:   1 = ,,,"

FYI I got the sys and dll drivers from the updated XP windows sub folders. I placed these in a single folder a copied them to the Windows 7 SP1 new install motherboard using a Intel B75 based chipset

adobe.inf   ( Acquisition board )
adobe.sys
agBridge.inf
agBridge.sys
agt357.inf
agt82341.sys
agt82350.sys ( GPIB)
agt82357.sys
agtgpibclass.dll 
agtgpibclass_pci.dll
agtgpib.inf
mesa.inf    ( this is the main interface )
Mesa.sys   
tstone.inf
tstone.sys
zeum.inf    (  memory interface )
zeum.sys   

Using Microsoft Sysinternal Utilities I open a command prompt running as System. I launched regedit and imported the registry data exported from the XP machine. There are regisry parts that do not get created if we just install drivers - for eample the Infiniium Main interface is not created by installing a driver so the import of the XP infiniium registry keys fixes this. Services related keys make sure services are started, etc

Once 7 SP1 was installed on the new motherboard I had to do all of the updates before the scope application would fully work - ie 186 plus updates ( I had tried it before all updates were installed ) FYI - you have to give the system time to boot up.

I Installed the V571 and 17.1 version of the IO Libraries
I then manually installed each driver picking the option to browse specifically for the driver and picking have disk.
Main interface, Acquisition Board, and 4 copies for the memory controller. I did them in sequence of the driver properties Device Instance number ending in 103010f0 for the first one, the first digit changes 1,3,5,7 for each board. It will warn about the lack of driver signing.

I ended up using a P8B75-M but also worked with a P5DL-M.
I never considered using the CHIP and Tecnoligy board pair - never tried them.
Using the P8B75-M board required me to extend the length of the cable to the acquisition board - the P5DL-M board does not need this change

Durring the experiments to get this to work I tried ever incresing ammounts of the saved registry from the XP machine.

At some point when I get more time and recover from this I will try to repeat this on a clean install and fully document it. It took me a few weekends and late nights. I used the Sysinternals Process monitor to track registry and file access for clues. I would not have been able to do this without all of the work done previously by forum members in this thread - thanks!

[Howardlong]

One problem I had with upgrading the mobo was that in certain modes the scope app would give incorrect results or crashed: ISTR it was in equivalent time sampling mode and/or delayed timebase.

On another subject, a couple of months ago out of nowhere, I found that the unit started rebooting itself part way through the scope app initialisation when the relays click away. I assume there'll be a cap or two that need replacing on the acquisition board. As I've been in the moving process, after a cursory internal examination including checking the main PSU was OK, that's been put on the back burner.

[SilverSolder]

Does the ADC/GPIB card fit in the slots of the P8B75-M or do you need some kind of slot adaptor?

[magore]

I only used the GPIB and PCI extension board - the P8B75-M has two PCI slots and the P5QL has three
I am not using the original LCD - I replaced it with an 8" mounting it to the original metal bezal from the original display.

[magore]

I have not had problems yet - but I would guess  PCI bus timing could contribute to stablity issues.
I am actually suprized this all works using drivers designed for XP era hardware on an I5-3470T CPU

[magore]

I added two screen shots of my updated 8" 1024x768 screen running windows 7 on an I5-3470T CPU

[magore]

Hi,
 It might be a good idea to make sure the assigned memory space for the acquisition card can not be assigned to virtual memory. One simple fix may just be to set the registry option to keep all of the Windows kernel locked in ram - (windows lets some of itself swap out). Another issue to check is if any device uses IRQ's that are shared between a device on the PCI slots and another motherboard resource - Likely only the GPIP board.. I will look at that shortly. Older drives did not like shared PCI IRQ's... PS. I am thankful for all of the work you did because when I did my conversion I was able to skip a number of the things you already tried - it is clear you knew what you were doing - so made a guess the registry was the only likley remaining isuue based on your notes.

[Howardlong]

As I mentioned earlier, check that equivalent time sampling works consistently, I went over my notes and that was the problem I was unable to solve.

[magore]

Hi, I am not having issues with equivalent time sampling. Are there any settings that you recall made the problem more obvious ? How long did it general take to fail.
In the mean time I will continue to do more tests
Thanks for your input
FYI - I have read all of your posts - so I mean anything you haven't yet mentioned wwt equivalent time sampling

[SilverSolder]

Is there anything about the Agilent scope application that limits the screen resolution to 1024x768,  or would it be possible to use even higher resolution e.g. on an external monitor?

[Howardlong]

Is there anything about the Agilent scope application that limits the screen resolution to 1024x768,  or would it be possible to use even higher resolution e.g. on an external monitor?

It's hard-designed to either 640x480 (C&T VGA overlay 5483x series) or 1024x768 (integrated graphics 8000A series).

As far as I was able to tell, if it sees the C&T VGA overlay card it runs at 640x480, otherwise it uses 1024x768.

This was with the latest supported 5.71 Infiniium software.

[Howardlong]

Hi, I am not having issues with equivalent time sampling. Are there any settings that you recall made the problem more obvious ? How long did it general take to fail.
In the mean time I will continue to do more tests
Thanks for your input
FYI - I have read all of your posts - so I mean anything you haven't yet mentioned wwt equivalent time sampling

Not that I remember! (Edit: as well as ETS, check delayed trace also works consistently)

The eqv sampling thing was weird, it would work sometimes but not others.

As I understand it you've successfully manged to figure out how to do this with a clean W7 install, which is a feat by itself. I gave up on that route myself, I couldn't get all the hardware to work unless I did updates in place via Vista: a very tedious process when you've done it a few times!

I am assuming when it's running at 1024x768 you're using integrated graphics. What flat panel and graphics card w/lcd interface did you use, or did you use an HDMI/DVI/VGA -> LVDS LCD interface board? Do you have touch on it too?

FWIW, I have an MSO8104A on its way to me at the moment.

(edit: I assume yours is now identifying as an 8000A series?)

[magore]

Hi,
   I used a P8B75-M motherboard with integrated grapics - I connect the video on the motherboard to a controller attached to a EJ080NA-04C LCD - I use 40pin 0.5mm externder to reach into the cassis. I have the the controller mounted where the drive used to mount. I will type up more info  this evening.  I will try to put some documenation together this weekend for you. 
So basically I have a short external video jumper that attaches the video card to the external video connector.

[magore]

Hi,
 You asked about the model number displayed - on my machine the Model Number is blank in the agScope.exe application help menu.

[magore]

WOW - Good News - Windows 10 32bit works on the 54831b !!!!
I updated a copy of my working of Windows 7 SP1 image (which runs on the P8B75-M installed ) to Windows 10 32 bit to see if it worked. It does! I just had to reinatall the mesa.sys driver - no other tweaks required. ( I had been working on a clean install of 10 as of last night - I was having some problems with the filter drivers so I thought I would test the upgrade process to help determine if it can work - it does  )
This means a clean install of Windows 10 may be possible. (My Windows 7 SP1 copy was a clean install with imported registry components from the orginal XP install to get it working ) I have started working on finishing the clean install now  - the only dificulty I have had so far is instaling the pci filter bridge driver that works with the 4 memory interfaces and acquisition board. The current installation software under C:\pcidriver tosses error. The good news is just creates registry entries - they can be imported by hand if required.

I am now going to focus all my attention on documenting the clean install process for Windows 10
( FYI All Windows 7 systems can be updated and activated still (!)  by running the latest Windows 10 setup from you r running Windows 7 system. Your Windows 7 system must have all updates applied before you try.  You must manually start - or restart - the windows installer service priror to doing this ( services.msc -> Windows Inetaller Service -> Start )
I am quite sure this will also work on most Intel B75 series motherboards.

There Screen shot below is the agscope application running on WIndows 10 with the Windows 10 properties dialog box displayed - on an external monitor.

[SilverSolder]

Nice job, you're cookin' on gas!    But - won't Windows 10 be a problem on a scope that may not be network connected at all times - given how Win10 likes to update itself constantly?  -  or have you found a way to calm that aspect down?

Maybe this application qualifies as embedded use, so it becomes possible to buy a legitimate copy of Win 10 LTSC ?

[magore]

Windows 10 Clean install works! – What follows is a  very short summary – I need to do one more install attampt to reduce the number of steps to a minimum. But I thought I would share the basic summary of what I do know currently. For the Clean install we only need a tiny bit of registry from the updated original XP install. The V571 scope software was a bit of a pain to install but I worked out the details. I only finished this late last night after three days straight. - today I took a break ! There is still some uncertainty in which software steps I did that are actually required. Until I repeat this. At least I made a full backup of windows 10 just before doing the software install so I can redo this. ( I use clonezilla for this as backup - I have PXE boot server with clonezilla and some linux live image on it so I can netboot the machine into clonezilla )

Basically I installed the IO Library Suite ( very latest version from 2019 - reminder I am using a P8B75-M motherboard  so this works) The 1.6.4 IVI drivers. (optional)  I restarted between all installs. This gets the  GPIB card setup automatically. I manually installed the mesa (Agilent Main)  along with a bit of registry, adobe (acquisition) and zeum (memory) drivers - just as I did with Windows 7.  I then installed the V571 software and ran into problems – it complained about returning borrowed licenses ( Confused - I did not have any! ). Now during my Windows 7 test I had installed the V2 FLEXLM license manager thinking it was needed to create a few keys or folders s ( so I tried that – no change – removed it all – used the license server docs for correct install/removal steps ) – I now know they are NOT needed (There is only one required registry key pointing to  \scope\bin\license.dat – FYI your old license does not work as the hostid changes – others have solved that issue dcoumented elsewhere ) everything now is handled inside the v571 software itself. Fun fact the agscope.sys bridge driver is no longer required at all ( it got removed automatically in the Windows 7 to Window 10 test I did previously - along with all traces of the BRIDGE_FILTER registry keys). This is a new Windows 10 feature in the handling of filter drivers. The older postsysprep.bat and related programs are no longer needed (trivia – the tools in the pcifilter folder were parts of a Ziff David "Magic of Windows" program library from back in the Windows 98/2K days)

During my V571 install I also had a problem with the Matlab 7.50 installed component. Along the way in trying to resolve the borrowed license issue I tried installing V421, V510 and finally 571 in sequence. (Likely not needed - was originally not sure if they update mesa,adobe and zeum )  I decided to open a command prompt, in  Administrator mode, and run the V571 installer with /? - just to examine install flag options for V571 – ( V571 is actually several programs – once run they expand in to the users Appdata/Local/Temp folder ) I ended up running the installer from the command line without options. It stuck on the Matlab 7.50 install saying it could not write a log file. I manually copied the extracted Matlab 7.50 msi package out of the Appdata/Local/Temp folder (While the V571 software was still extracting ) – I could then install that msi jfile ust fine manually. Lastly I found the return borrow license problem was now absent when the installer was run for the Administrator Command prompt. I think it would have worked fine if I did the install from the prompt originally all except for the Matlab issue . – I think that UAC was involved in this behavior, certainly running it from and Administrator Level command prompt was what made it behave differently ( ie then right clicking the exe installer via explorer and saying run as administrator.)

More to follow - need a few days to rest. I feel like a dog with bone on this project. Lots of fun. Thanks Howardlong - and others - I would not be here without your help.

[magore]

I am typing up a detailed set of instructions presently intended for those here with the required technical experience.
For the curious you only need these files: adobe.sys, mesa.sys, zeum.sys,  adobe.inf  mesa.inf, zeum.inf  (from recovery image) IOLibSuite_18_1_24715.exe, AgilentInfiniium-x86_1.6.4.0.msi (IVI drivers optional) SetupInfManuals05500001.exe , SetupInfiniium05710000.exe (from Agilents site) , two registry fragments grabbed from the the scope - 188 lines of registry related to mesa.sys and 10 lines related to flexlm license file location. That is it all you need for a Windows clean install!!!
Give me a few days and I will post it all.

[Howardlong]

FWIW, the MSO8104A turned up today. It's certainly a noticeably more slick experience compared to the 54831D, partly due to a better processor and mobo, probably the integrated graphics makes the waveform display more modern, with intensity grading that the 54831D lacked with its C&T VGA overlay board.

The touch part of the touch screen is meh, you still really need a mouse and keyboard.

Boot time is markedly faster, but the unit still has a rust drive, albeit SATA rather than PATA.

It's good enough that I don't feel the need to break the seals... for now, at any rate.

[SilverSolder]

It's good enough that I don't feel the need to break the seals... for now, at any rate.

Sounds like a worrying tendency to do electronics projects rather than messing with your tools? 
Surely not acceptable in the EEVblog forum! 

[Howardlong]

It's good enough that I don't feel the need to break the seals... for now, at any rate.

Sounds like a worrying tendency to do electronics projects rather than messing with your tools? 
Surely not acceptable in the EEVblog forum! 

It’s very early days!

On a usability note on anything on an EE bench that needs a keyboard and/or mouse, I very highly recommend an under-bench keyboard tray, leaving the bench itself clear.

You can buy them ready made, but nowadays I make my own custom trays using drawer slider runners from the DIY store.

[Tony_G]

It’s very early days!

On a usability note on anything on an EE bench that needs a keyboard and/or mouse, I very highly recommend an under-bench keyboard tray, leaving the bench itself clear.

You can buy them ready-made, but nowadays I make my own custom trays using drawer slider runners from the DIY store.

I've been ok with the slide-out touchpad for my 54845. For anything else with a USB port, I use an old Logitech K400 - Works great with Pi's and various iMX6 boards.

TonyG

[Howardlong]

FWIW, another one of the benefits of a slide out is that you can still easily operate the mouse under the desk with the tray closed, quite a common use case with these older Infiniiums where not all the features are available from the front panel.

I generally don't get on with touchpads very well unless it's a laptop use case, but I might try again given your recommendation.

[magore]

Windows 10 install on a Infiniium 54831b series scope with new Motherboard, CPU and new EJ080NA-04C LCD panel. Tested mostly on a P5B75-M with I5-3470T CPU. Also tested on PQ5M-VM DO with Core 2 Duo CPU
FYI - these steps will not work on Windows 7 - Windows 7 install needs the bridge driver installed and the \pcifilter directory tools post driver install - you have to fix each item in device manager under infiniium unlike just mesa.sys with Windows 10. otherwise these instructions work with Windows 7 also. .... Windows 10 is easier and will continue to be supported.

Background:
Thanks to Howardlong and others - they did all of the hard time consuming intial ground work proving it was posible to run Windows 7 on the scope by upgrading. This prompted me to explore a clean install Windows 10 solution. Because of his work I only had to focus on just what might be missing when he  tried that clean install soltion. I did a clean install first then examined differences in the registry specific to devices then software. I used Sysinternal tools to trace file and registry access for clues on the XP version running on the original configuration to debug the problem. I saved all of the HKLM section of the orginal XP registry for examination. Then I extracted the all of the keys containing Agilent infinnium, flexlm and the main scope drivers - that appeard in certain parts of the registry keys.- using a program I wrote. This helpped me find the missing bits.

Warnings
    • This project should only be attempted by someone with very good mechanical, computer, electronics skills. If you have any question or uncertainty about how to do ANY of the steps outlined below you should not even consider doing this project. ( Those with the required level of skills needed for this don’t need a fine level of hand holding explanation/concepts as they are already totally familiar to them. )
    • This will certainly void any warranties you have!
    • None of your existing software license options will work after you make these changes due to hostid changes!
    • This project requires serious mechanical modifications to your existing chassis.
        ◦ You will be cutting a hole in the back of your scope in the area where an IO shield insert would normally go – tolerance requirements are high for the new IO shield to fit and be aligned correctly. If you later decide put the VP22 motherboard back in the machine it will no longer have an IO shield for it.
        ◦ You will be replacing your Motherboard
        ◦ You will be replacing your LCD
        ◦ You will be extending the PCI bridge 80 cable with a new one
        ◦ You will be adding several new power connectors to your power supply. ( ATX 4 pin 12V for CPU, SATA 12V and 5V power connections 12V power for the LCD controller you will be adding SATA power connections. I did this by attaching it to the screw lugson the power supply.
    • Lastly but most important there are no warranties that this will work for you when you are done - I have only done limited testing. All I can say is that it has worked for me - so far
Prerequisites
    • You need a new Windows 10 Pro license - you can download the USB installer from Microsoft.
    • New LCD – I used an EJ080NA-04C, 1024 * 768 and controller combo
    • Used P8B75-M motherboard and a CPU – You should use a low power 35W TDP max CPU like the I5-3470T in order to not stress the scope power supply.
   
    • You will need a longer PCI extension cable for the P8B75-M board. Look for 82080-6006RB connectors on Digikey or if you are brave carefully take the existing connectors apart. I used the 80 cable from an old high quality 80pin shielded PATA IDE cable I had kicking around.
    • You will need two 4Pin ATX power cable extensions and a sata power cable from some source
   I replaced my CD with a DVD slim drive - you will need a "slim" sata power connector for the DVD






My first how to install Windows 10 is aimed at those who already have modified their systems with a new motherboard and are familiar with that part of the process. I am using a P8B75-M Asus motherboard but  I also used a P5DL-VM DO. I think any B75 series Intel chipset motherboard would be a good choice. FYI- Windows will install an older version of the Intel graphics drivers on these boards. You have to remove those and update the latest version from Intel - if you see igfxCUI Service 1.0.0.0 - that is part of the old driver set - its buggy - you want version 2 ( Microsoft Sysinternals autoruns.exe will help you find it ).

We will NOT be using the original video board pair in this upgrade so we only need two PCI slots.
I used a EJ080NA-04C LCD panel and driver board on my scope replacing the original LCD. I attached my new LCD to the original 8.4" bezel. The original bezel can be easily removed - it is just held by spring tension - a small flat blat screw driver will free it by springing the clips. I held the display in by using aluminum tape on the back side to hold it to the bezel. The bezel has the mounting screws to attach it to the scope. I made a black cardboard bezal to blaclout the extra margins visible from the frontside. I used 40pin 0.5mm extenders from Adafruit avaiable from Digikey also. I got longer 40pin 0.5m flex cables from digikey.


You will need the following files
1) adobe.sys, mesa.sys, zeum.sys ( from C:\Windows\system32\drivers folder
2) adobe.inf, mesa.inf, zeum.inf (from scope recovery partition C:\Windows\inf folder )
  Note: I have atached them to this post along with the changes - I only document the process in case someone wants to do it from scratch.
The original .inf files are one the scope recovery partition contained in the file RECOVERY.GHO
You can access the files by using Gost Explorer V11. images.
Ghost Explorer V11 is availabe on the Symantec FTP server:
      ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/products/symantec_ghost_solution_suite/2.5/updates/Ghostexp-B1597.zip

Here are the checksums and dates for the drivers - the versions I had on my 54831b scope:

                MD5                             SHA-1
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
12b7f231d02e4eb3a8c97281e991056e 66a921f9bbd2ed71032dc2a63730a02b97edf4d4 adobe.sys
4d2ba2387b448927d03b47351cfb5a63 5e9c7a0b7a458e8386c48136a7b6e4a7cdcfc339 Mesa.sys
f326ae60d4bd05b92848e18296ac141c e9de23ce5c7ec82eda538c756ef5a73ad70f98fa zeum.sys
File sizes and dates
2008-05-19  09:00 PM            29,184 adobe.sys
2005-08-02  11:02 PM            78,860 Mesa.sys
2008-05-19  09:00 PM            28,160 zeum.sys

To verify the hashes Microsoft has a tool you can download.
Microsoft Hash Checker
      https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=11533

Once you have the adobe.inf, mesa.inf, zeum.inf files you need to make a small change
find the section in each file called [SourceDisksNames.x86] modify the line below it as follows
[SourceDisksNames.x86]
;1 = %DiskId1%,,,""
1 = ,,,""

Use a USB key and place these six files on it along with mesa.reg and flexlm.reg from this posting

Get a copy of 2019 version of the IO Libraries Suite
Search for  "IO Libraries Suite Downloads" on Google - currently the pages is liked to
https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?id=2175637
Currently: Currentlu  2019 called IOLibSuite_18_1_24715.exe

Get a copy of the "Infiniium 8000 Series, 80000 Series, 5485x Series, and 5483x Series Oscilloscope Software" V571 and the latest manual V550
Currently: V571 called SetupInfiniium05710000.exe
and SetupInfManuals05500001.exe

I also got a copy of the IVI drivers
Currently: v1.6.4 called AgilentInfiniium-x86_1.6.4.0.msi

Place these four installers on the USB key
Copy your existing C:\scope directory to the USB Key for settings and calibration data

Install Windows 10
1) Clean install Windows 10 Pro - and install any motherboard specific driver ( but no infiniium drivers yet )
    - I used a new 120G SSD drive (SSD is strongly recommended - about $30 USD)
2) You can name the user whatever you want the scope software does not care (by default the user you create is an Administrator anyway)
3) Activate and update 
4) Change update setting to include other Microsoft software
5) Disable power saving sleep modes - I used advanced settings and disable all PCI and other device sleep settings.
6) Enable Remote  Desktop
7) Only update Motherboard drivers ( not Infiniium Drivers yet )

Installing Drivers:
1) Attache the USB key to the scope and copy the contents to a new folder, ie c:\drivers you will do any installs from c:\drivers - move the c:\scope folder to c:\scope.
2) Install IO Libraries Suite - Right click and install IOLibSuite_18_1_24715.exe as Administrator
3) Install IVI drivers - Double click and install AgilentInfiniium-x86_1.6.4.0.msi
4) Reboot - if you check device manager you will notice the GPIB board has a good device entry now

5) Right Click on mesa.reg and pick Merge, repeat for flexlm.reg
6) Right click on c:\drivers\mesa.inf and pick install - click through any warnings, repeat for adobe.inf and zeum.inf
7) Reboot
Open Device manager and Navigate to Infiniium ( This is a class created by mesa.reg that holds the mesa,adobe and zeum drivers)
9) You will notice that Infiniium Main Interface has an error
    - Right click and pick Update Driver
    - Browse my computer for driver software
    - Let Me pick from a list
    - Have Disk -> Browse C:\drivers -> mesa.inf -> Open - OK -> Next -> Close -> Yes Reboot!

10) Check that all of the Infiniium devices exist without error - Acquisition,Main and four Memory
11) Continue to software install

Installing Scope software:
1) Modify folder view settings to list extensions and not to hide any files except Merge conflicts - apply to all folders
2) Open your users AppData\Local\Temp folder - delete all of the files you can - you may have few busy log files - that is okay leave them
3) Right click on the SetupInfiniium05710000.exe installer and run as Administrator
   Once it gets to the Matlab 7.5 drivers it will fail saying it can not write the log file - do NOT click on the OK or close the dialog box yet! Look for the file "MATLAB Component Runtime 7.50.msi" under your AppData\Local\Temp older - searching for .msi helps. Save this file into your C:\drivers folder. You can now dismiss the error dialog box and close the failed SetupInfiniium05710000.exe setup.
4) Double click on "MATLAB Component Runtime 7.50.msi" and install - it should install just fine.
5) Right click SetupInfiniium05710000.exe installer and run as Administrator - it will now continue to install. Install the manual SetupInfManuals05500001.exe next.
6) REMOVE the Starup link for the AgScope.exe in user startup folder. I used the Microsoft SysInternals Suite program called Autoruns to do this. - Why? You do not want the scape to try to launch agscope when it reboots until everything is working.
7) Remove both VNC entries Using Control panel Add Remove programs - you will not use them with windows 10.
Disable the Windows firewall on your local network
9) Reboot

Updating
1) Run Windows update and let it update everything - there were several .Net and runtime compenents the scope uses - they need to be updated. Make sure you enable the Update Other Microsoft Software Settings in Windows Update - if not turn it one and update again
2) Reboot


Testing
1) Startup the system and log in - wait a while for any background windows post update services to finish - click on the task bar ^ Symbol - you want to see the (IO) icon for the IO drivers before continuing
2) Change your display resolution to 1024*768 and start the Infiniium agScope software - it may take a while the first time
3) Will will note you that you have no licenses - this is expected
4) You should be able to run various tests now.
5) If you run the agScope application on a screen with greater then 1024*768 settings it may hang in certain situations - this is due to a heap overflow. Windows will note this fact in the registry when it happens.
6) When using remote desktop always use 1024*768 screen mode by accessing the advanced options prior to connecting

[magore]

Attached are some photos of the new display install
The first picture shows the original display removed from its bezel - the new display is held in with aluminum tape - great tape it never lets go. The 40pin cable extenders are availabe from digikey.

[magore]

Faceplate removed and probe cover removed

[magore]

USB tray - I got a floppy usb add on - removed the board and made a holder on my CNC. The board was 88mm wide and 10.5 tall - so the works in the 96mm by 12.5mm hole.
This is how the video connection works. The motherboard hdmi out connects to an hdmi connection on the i/o shield area - that in turn connects to the display driver board inside the scope. I used a db9 io shield with the holes widened to take a chassis mont hdmi extention cable.
FYI - I added extra IO slots when I cut out the motheboard IO shield.

My cat lucky on the desktop - of course

[SilverSolder]

Totally cool project @magore! 

Did you happen to notice if the scope application is able to do anything "special" - e.g. is it a COM server or does it have DDE capability or anything like that, which could be made use of?

Can it write and/or log output to files on the local drive etc.?

[Tony_G]

Did you up the resolution as well?

TonyG

[Howardlong]

Pretty sure the LCD is a 1024x768 one, so yes to the resolution increase.

Very cool! A very neat cutout for the IO shield too - I am not skilled enough to achieve such a feat without it looking like a dog’s dinner.

One option I had a go with was to use a mini ITX mobo and use short extension patch leads to avoid the cutout but there’s not much space for the cables.

From memory and looking at my Amazon orders I think I went up as far as a G4500T. The scope app is single threaded, pegging a single core at 100% permanently, so there’s little point in any more than two cores, one for the app and one for everything else.

[magore]

The scope application did not change - it has all of the original features. You can save results exactly as before. The screen is 1024 x 768 but only 8" vs the original 8.4".
You can see the display part number in the photos. The display and controller were about $40

[magore]

Look at Howardlongs' detailed attempts with various mother boards in this thread -  it is quite extensive. I would strongly suggest reading this whole thread before anyone tried this.  When I cut out my IO shield I first drilled out the rivets holding it to the base plate and used screws to hold it back together when I finished. This allowed me to cut the IO shield much easier. I taped the area on both sides marked the hole, drilled starter holes, used a strong nibbler tool and filed the result smooth. Same with the IO card holes. FYI, the embossed impression surrounding  the original IO should is the correct location and  just about exactly the correct size for the cutout. This makes sense as the vp22 was also a standard board. The IO shield deminsions are all industry standard. . It is interesting that they had all of the screw holes for all the IO slots but not all the slots - very odd.

[Howardlong]

Doh!

About four months ago, I had the lid of my 54831D scope to try to fix a problem where it keeps returning to factory defaults at boot, something I never figured out why [e.g., the coin cell is fine]. Anyway, a few days later I turned it on and it rebooted a minute or so into the startup of the Scope app (5.71).

So I did a bunch of card re-seating, and did some limited tests on the power supply, assuming it was on its way out. Anyway, I couldn't find anything wrong, so assumed it was a dodgy cap or power supply on the acquisition board.

As I was moving a few days later, I put it onto the back burner.

This morning, I was searching through my storage for something, and randomly came across the Bridge Cable (W22) between the Display and Graphics boards.

It turns out I'd failed to replace it all those weeks ago when putting it back together again, and it now works perfectly - except for the original factory default problem.

So if your unit is showing this fault where it reboots at Scope app startup, check you've replaced the W22 bridge cable.

[Gandalf_Sr]

How does the Agilent 54831M compare to the 54831D?  Does it have the same analog board? What about the MSO functionality? Can it be upgraded as per all the instructions here?

Thanks in advance.

[Howardlong]

How does the Agilent 54831M compare to the 54831D?  Does it have the same analog board? What about the MSO functionality? Can it be upgraded as per all the instructions here?

Thanks in advance.

I don’t know what’s involved in modifying a 54831M/B to a 54831D: there are physical constraints such as the external trigger location moving to the back, and a digital cable receptacle in its place. Possibly there are some additional front panel buttons too. I don’t know what the resistor settings would be, or if the acquisition board needs additional chips.

The external cable assembly itself isn’t that easy to find, but I’d imagine they turn up on eBay occasionally. The one I have came with the scope, together with a full set of original lightweight 1165A analogue passive probes, that’s some value in itself: the 1165A have become a firm favourite of mine as a result.

[Jwalling]

How does the Agilent 54831M compare to the 54831D?  Does it have the same analog board? What about the MSO functionality? Can it be upgraded as per all the instructions here?

Thanks in advance.

I don’t know what’s involved in modifying a 54831M/B to a 54831D: there are physical constraints such as the external trigger location moving to the back, and a digital cable receptacle in its place. Possibly there are some additional front panel buttons too. I don’t know what the resistor settings would be, or if the acquisition board needs additional chips.

The external cable assembly itself isn’t that easy to find, but I’d imagine they turn up on eBay occasionally. The one I have came with the scope, together with a full set of original lightweight 1165A analogue passive probes, that’s some value in itself: the 1165A have become a firm favourite of mine as a result.

Not feasible. A number of chips including a custom BGA, 2 logic comparators, lots of discretes, plus the front panel as you mention.

[Gandalf_Sr]

So there's a possible parts unit 54831B  that I may be able to get that has the PSU but no processor on the MoBo.  I've included a picture of the analogue PCB.

Perhaps this could have a new:
MoBo + CPU
Windows 10
SSD (the HDD is missing, are there images available?)
No FDD?

Any thoughts?

[d123j]

Just tried the upgrade procedure on my 54831M and it worked fine. All, except for one little piece, the calibration procedure fails. It is passing fine with the original HW/FW. Thus question, it is just me or it is expected?

[Venturi962]

I observed this behavior as well when I did this work on a 54831B.  Perhaps the routines are different across models and some inconsistencies cause the calibration to fail.

[d123j]

To answer my own question, the below helped:
1. Throttled down CPU to stay withing 30W board power budget
2. Run agscope as admin

[thehsm]

Hello all,
I am new to this forum and came across this interesting post about modernizing the Agilent 54831D. It brought a lot of memories because I did the same think on my 54832D back in 2008. Back then the options regarding motherboards was limited so I went with a special FoxConn designed for POS equipment. I used the fastest Pentium D running at a amazing 3.4GHz and 2 GB of RAM. I later switched to an 256GB SSD, but only formatted to half capacity in order to extend its life. Also before I cut the IO Panel hole, I bought an extra metal piece from Agilent. Back then it was still supported and you could buy spare parts. So after 13 years I am thinking of doing another upgrade like some of you have done. One thing I tried back then, was to add a touch screen to the display. I tried multiple devices, but being resistive touch and not the best UI for touchscreen it was not worth the trouble. My question is, how is the display update rate when the CHIP & TECH display board is removed and the motherboard video is used? I guess it operates like the MSO8104. It appears that changing the LCD would be an easy start. Thanks for your feedback.

[Berni]

Actually resistive touch is what you want for a non touch optimised UI.

I have a MSO9000 that comes with a resistive touch screen and runs Windows 7. Due to its large screen you can use your finger nail to hit even the smallest of windowses non touch optimized buttons. This is much harder on new capacitive touch panels. Tho because the soft surface of resistive touch panels is easily damaged i have a screen protector film on it (also fixes the shiny glare issue). On the small screen here you might find a stylus useful too.

Capacitive touch might be a good idea when running Windows 10 where the UI is designed to take better advantage of it as long as its detected as a proper multitouch panel. But pretty sure you won't be running that on this oldtimer.

Touch is nice on a scope so that you can quickly prod and poke at a button, especially since modern infiniium scopes only let you do the most basic of things using the front panel buttons, so some form of mouse input is pretty much required. But when you have to set up a lot of fancy measurements and settings its still better to keep a mouse near by (your arm gets tired from poking things in mid air across the whole bench).

[thehsm]

Hello Berni,

I have a Tek DPO7104 with a Resistive Touch Screen and it works there because of the large screen, on the 54832D even with the stylus, it was not useful to me when I did the tests. I use a mini keyboard with a touchpad and that works great.

So my original question is, if I remove the C&T video card, will the scope switch to the motherboard Video and display the waveforms there?

[d123j]

It was actually answered earlier in this topic, at least for the latest version of the software(5.71), the scope will switch to the motherboard video. The resolution will be 1024x768 up from the original 640x480.

[d123j]

Above in this topic magore fitted an 8 inch LCD panel, HJ080IA-01E, to 54831. I went that way and bough one from Aliexpress for around $40.
It comes together with a controller, I had IC marking on mine sanded away, but it certainly looked like a generic RTD2660 controller.
The obvious drawback of that approach is that some of the display area, around 10%, is lost, 
It turned out there is an 8.4 inch LCD panel, the same size as the original, with the resolution of 1024x768. It is an AA084XA03 also from Mitsubishi.
I decided to give it a try.
Unlike the original display panel, which is parallel, the AA084XA03 is LVDS one. From what I can tell AA084XA03 can fit nicely instead of the original one.
Two of the four mounting holes even match those from the original. Well, now the question is what to hook it to.
Since I already had a controller form HJ080IA-01E that was an obvious choice as both panels are LVDS and of the same resolution.
The main problem was how to hook it as the connector on the AA084XA03 is not only rather unique but also is difficult to work with.
After  going through all the pain I can conclude that AA084XA03 does indeed work with a controller from HJ080IA-01E.
What is left now is just to make it all fit nicely inside the case.

[SilverSolder]

Maybe there is a graphics card and driver that can drive a LVDS display directly?

Or is Agilent bypassing Windows for the display?

[thehsm]

I found a way to test how the larger resolution screen would look in the 54832D without opening or removing the Video Card.

This allows me to use both the Internal Chips and Technologies Video Card and an external monitor displaying the scope app.

I am thinking of just using an external monitor with touchscreen on top of the Scope. Not the one in my picture, but one without a Stand.

To do this, you need to modify agscope.exe application from the BIN folder using a hex editor. Open the file in the hex editor and search for "65550", without the quotes. Change any of the numbers to something like 55550 and save the file. I saved my file as agScopeXGA.exe.

Then on the Display Properties of Windows, make the external monitor the primary monitor.

Now run the new app and the scope App will run on the external monitor at 1024x768 while the scope screen still works as a secondary screen.

The reason that this works is because the Video Card name is Hard Coded in the scope code:

  memset(&DisplayDevice, 0, 424u);
  DevIndex = 0;
  DisplayDevice.cb = 0x1A8;

  if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, 0, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
    return 0;

  while ( stricmp("CHIPS AND TECHNOLOGIES (ASILIANT) 65550", DisplayDevice.DeviceString) )// Chk if C&T Chip
  {
    if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, ++DevIndex, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
      return 0;
  }
  return 1;                                     // Found C&T

Enjoy!

[toli]

Thanks for the suggestion thehsm. I tried that, and I can confirm it works.
I have the original HW installed and I notice everything is slower this way, including loading the program.
I am using it with the original HW, so this is probably significantly less of an issue if using with modified Pentium4 HW that is much faster. Still, I wanted to quantify this so I did the following:
 
With 1CH active at 131kpts/4GSPS no sinx/x with 100ns/div time base  and and input signal of 1MHz used for the trigger on CH1 I see the following frequency on the trigger output:
No external monitor using original agscope.exe: 2.56KHz
External monitor enabled at 1024x768 and set as primary using modified agscope.exe: 21Hz
For my use I will probably stick to the default option, except perhaps for some "special" cases where I would like to capture nicer images. But for general use the default is significantly more responsive.

Can you give it a try on your HW and see what the difference is?

Edit:
Attaching screenshots captured over the web interface of the scope at 640x480 and 1024x768 just for some visual comparison. I think it makes sense to have the second agscopeXXX.exe available for capturing a nicer image when you need it.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
Now run the new app and the scope App will run on the external monitor at 1024x768 while the scope screen still works as a secondary screen.

The reason that this works is because the Video Card name is Hard Coded in the scope code:

  memset(&DisplayDevice, 0, 424u);
  DevIndex = 0;
  DisplayDevice.cb = 0x1A8;

  if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, 0, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
    return 0;

  while ( stricmp("CHIPS AND TECHNOLOGIES (ASILIANT) 65550", DisplayDevice.DeviceString) )// Chk if C&T Chip
  {
    if ( !EnumDisplayDevicesA(0, ++DevIndex, &DisplayDevice, 0) )
      return 0;
  }
  return 1;                                     // Found C&T

Enjoy!

Very good! 

If the above test is now completely bypassed, is there any reason why an entirely different video card -  a more modern and much faster one -  couldn't be used?

[d123j]

Here is an update on the progress. I successfully fitted the new AA084XA03 8.4 inch XVGA display unit and it sits nicely
since the size is a little smaller than the original one. Two original posts were reused and two new ones added.
Since it is also a Mitsubishi unit the backlight did not require any modification.
I had to use VGA connection though as I could not make HDMI to work with the new display controller. I fitted the display controller on the top of the
SSD. Used three posts and threaded holes in the aluminum plate that holds it. The cable between a controller should have been connected
to the VGA connector at the back of the motherboard, something I did not like. So I looked around for a graphic card option that
would have an internal connector. It turns out there is a significant number of the low profile graphic cards where VGA is connected to the card
with a cable. I unscrewed that VGA connector and made it internal to the unit, so no external video cable anymore! The word of caution
here. The card must be low power one, this is one of those cases where lower performance gives better results. I used HIS HD 5450 (ebay, $15 shipped).
I also tried Geforce GT650, which I had, but that one used too much power to work reliably.
I also fitted an additional 12V 5A power supply to the back wall since I suspected a lot of stability issues people saw earlier were caused by
the original power supply not being able to handle the increased power consumption.
I used it to power a display and a CPU 4 pin connector. A relay connected to the original 12V powers it up.
Eventually, I also upgraded CD ROM, I believe any slim drive will do there. Mine required some special power cable so I needed to get one as well.
I also upgraded the panel backlight to the LED. I ordered a cheap kit ($5) out of curiosity and it turned out to be very easy mod as the LED fitted nicely inside
the grove of the original CCFL metal holder. There is some long video on yourtube on how to fit the LED backlight to the particular panel I used.
They overcomplicated things, removed PCBs from the panel, etc... nothing of that sort was needed.
Last mod I am planning is to put a combined USB extender/SD card reader in the floppy bay.
I also want to mention that the oscilloscope application can be run via a remote desktop. You have to exit agscope, connect to the device, and restart abscope.
For me it is a better option than a secondary monitor as I already have a PC monitor at my work bench.
I can nicely see all the traces while the oscilloscope sits on the top shelf without straining my neck too much.
I had some problems making agscope to start on power up with Win10 , placing a shortcut in the startup folder did not do it for me. The solution was to add autologin  and to create a task with a trigger on logon. I also reduced the level of notification to avoid windows warnings when trying to run application in the admin mode.
It was a fun project. I see now that agscope application cannot show the model number of my unit, I wonder what goes on there. The developers should have reserved Frankenstein model for those cases

[SilverSolder]

Awesome project, I love the remote desktop idea!

Can the scope be fully controlled from there, or does the scope need the physical knobs turning?

[d123j]

I think the scope can be fully controlled from the remote desktop. You can do pretty much everything what mouse and keyboard allow you on the build in screen. Buttons/knobs can be more convenient in most cases but they are within my reach anyway. Also update rates are pretty good.

[Howardlong]

I'd imagine that your scope now comes up as an MSO8064 or MSO8104.

Presumably you hacked the chassis-embedded IO shield out for your new mobo? That was the step I stopped at!

The nice thing about avoiding the C&T is that as well as the higher resolution display, the waveforms have intensity grading that is missing from the C&T display. A more modern CPU & iGPU affords far better update rates too.

As well as a 54831/54832, I have a real MSO8104 here too, and practically speaking the only real difference to the later 54832 models is the display/touch screen, mobo specs and front panel USB. I wouldn't be surprised if the acquisition boards are the same.

[d123j]

I wasn't joking, the scope doesn't seem to know what it is. I did remove the resistor that supposedly makes it into 1GHz model. Need to dig out my signal generator to prove or deny it. The case is made from aluminium, not silumin, thus it is very soft and easy to work with. After some trials and errors I figured that Dremel and a set of files is all you need, (+ ruler, caliper and a pencil of course). It took me about 30 min to do the actual cut and definitely looked scarier that it turned out. I used another ATX case as a reference. It would be a good idea to practice on some other aluminum piece to know what you sing up for. The back plate must be away from any PCBs when you do the cut if you do not want to chase any potential issues caused by highly conductive metal dust.
I think later models MSO8000 use the same or very close acquisition HW since they use the same agscope application.

[Howardlong]

By the way, you're not missing much regarding the touch screen: I never use it: the implementation is as bad as you'd expect bearing in mind the vintage.

Instead I have a slide out wireless keyboard & mouse tray under the bench, although it's rare the keyboard ever gets used, so I just fumble for the mouse with the slide shelf slid in almost all the time: works pretty well. (I use the same for an MSOX3104T on an adjacent bench with a slide out keyboard drawer, it works well).

(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).

[d123j]

I am not missing touch screen at all. I am one of those people who hate seeing fingerprints on the screen. Not having one helps a lot with that aspect.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).

(Attachment Link)

Rotate in Microsoft Paint before posting...  The forum cannot rotate images.

There's a full list of BBCode commands here:  https://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

[Howardlong]

[...]
(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).

(Attachment Link)

Rotate in Microsoft Paint before posting...  The forum cannot rotate images.

There's a full list of BBCode commands here:  https://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

Hmm, thought I'd tried that. Oh well!

[Berni]

[...]
(Sorry, cannot figure out how to get the forum to display this pic in portrait).
(Attachment Link)

Rotate in Microsoft Paint before posting...  The forum cannot rotate images.

There's a full list of BBCode commands here:  https://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

Hmm, thought I'd tried that. Oh well!

The JPEG standard got a new feature shoved in at some point that allows phones to easily rotate a picture by appending some metadata. So instead of rotating the image by 90, they just mark it as rotated by 90. So when the picture is loaded again it gets rotated in the process. Quite a lot of software does not support this feature so they ignore the metadata and load the image non rotated. And so some programs see the image rotated correctly, some see it rotated wrong.

[thehsm]

Hello Toli,

I measured the trigger output in my setup and they look the same on my scope using the C&T and the Motherboard Video. I used another scope to look at the trigger signals and it is a 2uS pulse every 5Khz to 10Khz. Not sure a frequency counter would pick that up accurately. To me it feels like it has the same response time when I use the larger screen. One thing I did was to increase the AGP video bus frequency to 300MHz in the BIOS.

On another note, a few days ago the power supply failed and took some time to figure it out, but finally found the bad capacitor in the primary side on the isolated Standby 5V power supply.  The tricky thing was that the voltage was 5V, but could not provide enough current to drive the 175mA draw of the Standby circuit.

[Jwalling]

On another note, a few days ago the power supply failed and took some time to figure it out, but finally found the bad capacitor in the primary side on the isolated Standby 5V power supply.  The tricky thing was that the voltage was 5V, but could not provide enough current to drive the 175mA draw of the Standby circuit.

I've seen that failure before, under a minimal load the voltage drops to about 3.5V. What was the reference designation of the cap? I believe I still have the supply on a rack somewhere...

[thehsm]

The Cap that Failed was a 47uF 25V on the primary side of the Standby Power Supply. I changed all of the caps anyway.

[ddalma]

The task you have accomplished so far is very impressive. Anyone knows how could I get the full acquisition memory?

[bostonman]

After reading through this thread, I saw the link for: https://www.keysight.com/us/en/lib/software-detail/instrument-firmware-software/infiniium-8000-series-80000-series-5485x-series-and-5483x-series-oscilloscope-software-566904.html

My scope is an Agilent 54831M. From what I understand, this is a 'military' version and has slight differences.

First off all, the link above shows the software works for 5483x but further down, it shows just 5483B/D. My scope has Win98 and the original drive I got upon buying the scope broke. Through someone on the HP forum, I managed to get an image.

Anyway, after reading many threads, I see upgrading to a newer version of Windows, it would require XP, a different motherboard, and some other changes to fit a motherboard.

Since I don't have XP, and assuming it's financially worth spending money on a new motherboard, am I able to perform the upgrade to Win10?

Also, I read certain features are able to be unlocked, but it seems these features are for a board in a B unit.

Having said all this, do any options exist that I can unlock or should unlock for my M model?

Currently I plan to update the PS fan, maybe the fans on the side, and remove the resistor. I'm uncertain if upgrading the motherboard is worth it, but thought to ask.

[toli]

The fans replacement are a must IMO, I've replaced all the fans on the unit (link below this post), and it made a significant difference. The PS fan was by far the loudest, but the rest made a difference too.

The HDD on my unit (WinXP) is ok, but I've replaced it with an SSD (+SATA adapter) and keep the HDD for BU in case its ever needed. I've created an image of the HDD before taking it out, so if you'll ever need it feel free to PM me and I'll upload somewhere and give you a download link. The file is obviously an image of the scope HDD in the state it was in when I've received it (which was used from eBay), but there's not much to it really. Simply update the software to 5.71 from the link you've attached, and use the modified agscope.exe file.

[bostonman]

I admit, I've either not done enough research, or remain a bit confused.

Since my scope is an M, and from my understanding, upgrading beyond Win98 isn't feasible due to the motherboard limitations. But if it's simply updating to 5.71 through Win98 and changing an exe file, then maybe it's worth a try.

On a side note, upon getting my scope, it booted just fine with a mSATA hard drive that the previous owner installed. Suddenly the scope stopped booting and I thought a BIOS setting was the cause. Long story short, the previous owner sent his image to me, I got about three or four images, and none worked until I finally found one that did.

If I can upgrade this scope to XP without changing the motherboard, I think it would be great and would appreciate the image. As for the image being in the state you got it in, it seems like nothing is really wrong with that. I'd just need to re-run calibration, self test, etc...

I'll order and change the ps fan. As for the six, I did a bit or research and finding replacement ones without the third wire (something to do with fan stall) were expensive. The expense isn't necessarily an issue, but I could buy six fans and discover they aren't much quieter. A write up I found on the ps fan replacement stated the guy bought a fan with lower noise, however, it was still loud, so he bought a new one. I fear that I could spend $50 or so on the six fans to discover they didn't make an improvement.

[toli]

I haven't had a Win98 unit so can't say for sure, but I would guess that changing the MB is needed for it to work properly with WinXP due to drivers.
Try using the hacked agscope.exe on you machine, I doubt it only works on WinXP.

As for the fans, I've posted about it on my blog here:
https://tolisdiy.com/2019/10/04/agilent-54831b-oscilloscope-taming/
It might be the write up you found I've mentioned the actual part# for the fans I've used so you can use them for reference there.

Fans with stall sensors aren't too difficult to find actually, but you can always bypass it if you choose to. That's what I did, as I've only noticed the fan stall sensors after I've received the replacements. I would consider the PS fan much more critical for unit operation than the case fans for instance (since there's only one fan there), and this one hasn't got a fan stall sensor at all in the original fan. If one of the case fans ever fails, I doubt it would make a real difference, and it will probably last forever anyway.
The PS fan is by far the worst in terms of noise. However, the 6 case fans are... well... 6 fans Combined they are fairly loud in my opinion, especially since they are right at the edge of the case with no sound proofing on the way to my ears. I've replaced them all, and I'm much happier with the scope now, I can now work with it on for hours right next to me. Previously I couldn't bare it.
You can always go down the middle route, just order 1 fan for the case, and compare the noise it makes to one of the original fans on its own. This should give you some sense of how much difference there would be when replacing them all.

[bostonman]

Your write up is the one I read, and I think it was a great help.

I'm on the fence with getting fans without the stall sensor. I assume this sensor turns off the scope if a fan or fans stops spinning.

I agree, seems silly to worry about a single fan failing when it has five backup fans, but I dislike disabling features.

What is the sound difference between the six you installed versus the original? Looking at the replacement you suggested, DigiKey has quantity ten at $74. Although I agree decreasing sound is a good thing and easier on the ears, seems $74 is high just for fans.

Also, I noticed something odd in your write up. You listed part number 2410SB-04W-B59-B00 as the fan you tried, however, DigiKey shows this part number, but the datasheet lists B50 and B60, but no B59. I thought it was odd that DigiKey actually shows this part number, but it doesn't seem to exist in the datasheet.

Also, do any tricks exist to removing the power supply? I haven't been dealing with the top part of the scope for several months since I've been focused on repairing the Acquisition Board, but remember seeing somewhat of an easier method of removing the power supply than I initially assumed.

[toli]

Your logic is sound, if it supports the fan stall sensor, why not take advantage of this. I've explained in the blog post how and why I did this, but this obviously doesn't mean you should plan for this considering the fact you know it in advance. Learn from my experience and do better The nice thing about these fans is that they are visible from outside the scope, so they especially easy to observe if you choose to.
With that being said, as I've mentioned, I think the single most critical fan here is actually the one in the PS as there's only one fan there and if that one fails you are in big trouble probably. However, this one doesn't use the fan stall sensor. I guess the "fail-safe" here was to make it so loud that it's immediately clear to the user when its not working 

The noise difference is really difficult to quantify, as I didn't measure this with an SPL meter. For me, its well worth the ~50$ these fans cost. Compared with the price of the scope (especially when you consider the cost of shipping such a beast from the US to Israel and the tax I had to pay for importing it), the fans aren't an issue really. Add the cost of the 1165A probes I've ordered to go with it and the fans are even less of an issue.
From my point of view, the scope in its original state wasn't really usable. I couldn't stand it for anything other than the bare minimum time I had to use it. I've ended up using my low speed USB scope for everything it could handle simply because it wasn't as loud. So in my view the 50$ are well worth it, and the difference is "huge".

I don't have that first fan I tried at hand, so I can't check the PN to verify, but if I'm fairly confident that is the correct PN.

As for the PS, you can consult the service manual as to how you are supposed to remove it, or you can go with the "lazy" approach. Once you remove the case fan that's in front of the PS fan, you will have easy enough access to the PS fan with a long screw driver. Just remove the PS fan that way, and reuse its wire harness to connect to your new fan.

BTW, one interesting this I've noticed about the scope. When using HDClone8 for the clone of the drive to the SSD, there's an option to adjust the drive size so that it uses the complete 120GB of the SSD I've used instead of just 20GB as the original HDD. When I've used that option, the probe compensation output no longer worked
So I've reverted back the to the a direct clone of the HDD so that only 20GB of the SSD are used, and everything is back to normal.
Sound like a SW bug, but nothing we can't work around.

[bostonman]

With that being said, as I've mentioned, I think the single most critical fan here is actually the one in the PS as there's only one fan there and if that one fails you are in big trouble probably. However, this one doesn't use the fan stall sensor.

I'm going to guess and say that the power supply has thermal protection and would shut down.

As for fan stall sensor in the six fans, it seems overkill to complement your statement of one fan failing and the system not suffering any issues. I don't know how it works, but I'm guessing the scope shuts down once a fan stops. This could cause a high repair cost for someone unknowingly thinking the scope is broken and send it to a repair place which is another contributor to being overkill. Obviously an average user isn't going to periodically check whether all six fans are spinning, so a stall sensor makes sense, however, I'd implement a failed fan in software as a pop up window warning each time the scope boots.

Your point about the $50 in fan costs to reduce noise is valid. I got this scope for pennies because ch2 and ch3 were failing in 50ohm mode. Thinking that was the only problem, I bought it assuming I'd either never use 50ohms on these two channels, or just use a termination. Come to find out, the calibration was off, and I couldn't calibrate it with two "bad" channels because the software would abort once it began calibrating channel 2 (and assumed it would also abort once it began channel 3).

Long story short, I've replaced the Agilent hybrid chips in both channels (and now all four channels successfully calibrate), but channel 2 had its thermal pad lift slightly. After running thermal tests, it seems all the chips run at approximately the same temperature (this is with the cover removed - they should run cooler with the fans cooling the enclosed case). Knowing what I know about how hot they run, the time I've devoted to fixing this scope, and it being a pretty cool scope, I don't plan to use it for everyday use in fear of overheating those hybrids and/or just wearing out the scope. Due to my projects, it's rare I need a scope for long periods anyway; and rare I need a 500GHz scope (but it's really cool to own).

Having said all this, most likely the noise from the six fans probably won't be too much of an issue for me, however, the ps fan seems to be mentioned often as the main noise contributor and probably worth my time to replace. Ideally I'd like to remove the entire power supply, blow out any dust, and check for blown caps. You're correct, I will consult the service manual - being an "engineer" I never stop to think about reading directions - but I did consult it to remove the BNC front panel cover.

Also, the part number for the fans isn't a mistake on your part. DigiKey shows the part number your provided as the manufacture's part number, but, when I opened the datasheet, it didn't list a B59; just a B50 and B60. My initial assumption would have been you accidentally typed '9' instead of a '0' since they are close, but DigiKey clearly shows a B59 as the part number.

[bostonman]

Today I removed the power supply and fan because I have a replacement on the way.

Upon looking at the part number, I noticed mine is part number: FBA06A12M1A, you list part number: FBA06A12U

Did you make an error, or was two different fans used?

Also, this is a long shot, but does a manual and/or datasheet exist for the power supply? I was completely wrong, this power supply is much larger than I imagined, and, also, the fan is much larger than I thought.

I expected a tiny fan on a small power supply. I didn't realize the terminal blocks on the side are actually the power supply, and overall, a monster of a supply.

In any case, this power supply is very tight inside, and I must say, looks very well built. I blew it out, however, it was quite clean. I do fear it could fail in the future and may need a replacement, so having the specs would be nice. For the most part, most of the specs are on the supply itself, but having a datasheet/manual is always nice.

[toli]

Seems like 2 different fans used. See attached

[bostonman]

Just an FYI,

I received the new fan today (MF60251V2-1000U-A99) and compared the sound to the FBA06A12M1A in my scope.

Keep in mind, I used a 9V battery instead of 12V, so it's running a bit slower. Both fans seemed to have the same level of sound.

The one you suggested seemed slightly quieter, however, maybe someone at Agilent caught on and changed the model to a quieter one or a previous owner replaced it (although it doesn't look it because the wiring looks factory).

In any case, I'm still replacing it. The one you suggested, as mentioned above, seemed slightly quieter, and it's a new fan. Hopefully this means it will last longer than the original.

[bostonman]

Quick update:

I spent the weekend installing the new p/s fan and cleaning the rats nest the previous owner(s) made. Although not necessary, I installed a strip of rubber on the terminal power supply side. I didn't like seeing the wires 'rubbing' against the edge.

Although the covers need to be installed, the whole scope is together and passes calibration.

I began thinking about the fans. Although six are used, it looks like the top and bottom half are separated meaning only three fans handle the bottom and three on the top. This got me thinking about the design using the third wire to detect a fan stall. If only three fans are handling each half, if one fan stops spinning, this means 1/3 of the cooling is lost. I assume this isn't a major loss, but if one fan fails, it means maybe enough dust is filling the area that a second fan will fail; thus losing 66% cooling.

On another note, when I do a self-test, I get a warning about attenuators being near the end-of-life and should be replaced.

Does anyone know where these are located? If they are under the RF shield on the Acquisition Board, well, they can stay there because I'm done messing with that board, but I may buy replacements should they fail in the future and/or the software decides they are too old or broken.

Having said this, how does the software know they are near the end-of-life? In order for the system to know, the attenuators would need to provide some data when it does this test.

[bingo600]

Having said this, how does the software know they are near the end-of-life? In order for the system to know, the attenuators would need to provide some data when it does this test.

I think on my ESG (Func Gen) , i think they "Count & store" number of "relay clicks / attenuator changes" , and know what the relay specs are.
They might have a good deal of life back , just approaching the spec. limit.

/Bingo

Ps: I just read the whole thread .. Enormous amount of time put into this - Well done guyzz 

[bostonman]

This makes sense.

I researched this prior to posting the message and found that the counter can be reset using a 'service switch'. Having the experience with this scope that I have, I wouldn't doubt the Agilent software will lock the scope after the attenuator count reaches a certain number; making it inoperable.

Having said this, I'd like to reset the counter to avoid such a possibility. Does anyone know how to enter this so called menu using a 'service switch'? Also, where are these attenuators and how do I get them to replace them?

On another note, one option in the software is to 'install memory'. I'm uncertain what this means, however, to access the menu, a password is needed. Does the scope use a default password I can try?

Ps: I just read the whole thread .. Enormous amount of time put into this - Well done guyzz

Between this thread and another thread I started, I would never have been able to fix my scope. I've spent nearly a year (off and on) trying to get my scope working. I bought mine knowing channel 2 and 3 didn't work in 50ohm mode, but thought I could use the scope regardless. Come to find out the calibration was off, but Windows aborted the calibration when starting channel 2 thus keeping my scope un-calibrated making the DC level and wave forms to be incorrect.

Soon after the drive crashed, I discovered incorrect installed components, etc... Now I've replaced all the wrong components, the fan upgrade, new hybrids in channel 2 and 3 (I replaced myself), a broken ZIF connector that controlled the Probe Board, etc... and the scope is like brand new.

Again, it's from all the help of these threads that got me to this point. Honestly, at a few times I thought to myself, why not just sell the scope as is because it's unrepairable, but these threads were a huge help.

[bostonman]

One thing I don't understand about this scope is why it can't be upgraded (in his default hardware configuration) with XP.

Maybe this is an incorrect statement, but any Win98 machine was able to be updated to XP without an issue. If I understand from reading, drivers would be an issue, but XP should have all the drivers needed because they'd cover all the old hardware.

The only issue I see, and it's because I'm limited with software, how to get the scope software onto a new OS.

[ARF]

I'm thinking.. Is it possible to add support for modern probes? Someone figured out where the settings for the probes are stored?
For example N2795A is not supported, but why not...

[bostonman]

Without drivers, I don't see how it could be done. Also, if the scope is still in Win98 (which mine is), most likely you won't find any drivers.

I'd still like to find the service disk so I can reset the attenuator count. I fear this will one day bite me as it may cease to function due to telling me the attenuators are over their life expectancy.

I'd also like to find new attentuators so I can replace them.

Unfortunately I never found the original Agilent scope software, so I'm a slave to keeping hard drive image backups.

[free_electron]

launch the scope application with options : scope /service. there are other options too.
as for winxp : the problem is the driver for the pci card. At a certain point they changed to a new pci interface board with a new controller.

[Tony_G]

Unfortunately I never found the original Agilent scope software, so I'm a slave to keeping hard drive image backups.

I'm pretty sure I grabbed a copy of the Recovery software for the 54831D - Take a look at https://1drv.ms/u/s!Amqar8_XQ9Uzj6YhN1xHdM8tQdKMOA?e=25zklm

TonyG

[bostonman]

launch the scope application with options : scope /service.

How? The application just boots on its own and don't believe I've seen anything regarding alternate boot files.

I'm pretty sure I grabbed a copy of the Recovery software for the 54831D

I'm a bit confused. I don't see a"54831D" recovery directory/zip. Am I to download everything on the link you provided or an individual zip?

[coromonadalix]

its windows based,  crtl alt delete and with task manager you kill the scope application

And with task manager you can start the application  with the scope / service

[bostonman]

its windows based,  crtl alt delete and with task manager you kill the scope application

I have shut down the application by this method (actually I use to try shutting down the scope by first doing this rather than just kill it fearing I may corrupt something even though it's designed to be shut down), but then do I need to run a command line to load the service portion? In the past I usually just end up reloading the same scope application.

[Tony_G]

I'm a bit confused. I don't see a"54831D" recovery directory/zip. Am I to download everything on the link you provided or an individual zip?

It's a direct copy of what was on the FTP site so the file structure is how they had it. Check out the pdf "InfiniiumUpgradeRecovery" located in "...\54845A\54845A\548xx\Upg_Rec"

For models 54830B, 54830D, 54831B, 54831D, 54832B, 54832D, 54833A, 54833D
These models were originally released with the Windows 98 operating system. Newer units and
upgraded older units run Windows XP. Your scope’s operating system will determine which upgrade
or recovery CDs are appropriate for it.

That doc should link you to what you need to do and which ISOs other folders etc.

TonyG

[free_electron]

There is no risk of corruption. The scope launches a ramdrive at startup and runs completely out of that. it doesn't write to the drive.

Ctrl-alt-del , kill the scope applicaton , open a command prompt and type "scope /service <enter>"
If you now go in the calibration menu there are additional options. one of them is to reset the relay counters.

[free_electron]

How? The application just boots on its own and don't believe I've seen anything regarding alternate boot files.

the scope boot process is actually a loader program that reads the hardware configuration of the machine , sets up some things and then calls hpldr which is the real scope program

scope.exe has a number of option flags /service enables the service menu

factory
service
servicecal
defaultsetup
internal
testflash
hwdebug
debugknobs

[bostonman]

factory
service
servicecal
defaultsetup
internal
testflash
hwdebug
debugknobs

Are these different options to type after tying 'scope' as in 'scope /servicecal', 'scope /testflash', or are these additional menu options after typing 'scope /service'?

Earlier I tried the steps listed above, and, unfortunately just typing 'scope /service' at the command prompt didn't work. I thought maybe I needed to be in the Agilent directory, so I got the location of the scope software (c:\scope\bin), but, what I found is 'scope' wasn't listed in the C drive when I did a directory listing ('dir').

Regardless, I typed cd\scope and it went into the sub-directory, and, ironically, it didn't show any directories except for . and .. (i.e. no \bin directory).

Assuming maybe it was "hidden", I typed 'bin' and it couldn't find it. I tried shutting down other applications running, and then it allowed me to enter the sub-directory 'bin' even though it wasn't listed when I did a 'dir'.

At this point I tried scope /service, and it still didn't work. Giving up, I shut down, but then figured I'd try one more time. This time I shut down just the scope program and managed to get into c:\scope\bin without a problem (a bit odd, but I didn't question it).

This time I realized maybe it's not called 'scope.exe', so I tried the actual program in the shortcut listed (AG5483Ldr.exe), and typed that (I included the .exe just as a precaution) followed by /service.

It booted the software and sure enough, in the self test menu was the attenuator count. I set it to '0', however, didn't have enough time to run throuhg a self test to confirm it's fixed.

I may try a full calibration and self test again even though I get worried if I run the calibration, it may fail and erase the old calibration. During messing around with the menus, I went into calibration and accidentally started the calibration procedure, but aborted. I don't know if this gets stored in memory and can corrupt the calibration channels data.

Anyone who wants to reset the atten. count, it looks like the steps are CTRL-ALT-DEL, shut down the scope software, open a command prompt window, go to c:\scope\bin\, type 'AG5483Ldr.exe / service', and then look for the reset atten option in self test menu.

As for the attenuators themselves, has anyone replaced these? I never found anything about a part number, so I am uncertain if they need to be replaced. If it's something that's checked in self test, seems like maybe they can get worn over time thus eventually failing.

[bostonman]

I ran a self test last night and the attentuator passed.

This entire time I've been searching for a 'service' disk per information I read online and never knew it existed on the existing software.

I'd still like to find replacement ones should I ever need or decide to change them, however, knowing it no longer gives the warning is good because, as I mentioned, I feared the scope may eventually lock itself because it assumes the attenuators are too old to continue functioning correctly.

[ARF]

Hello guys!

I would like to update my 54830B to 54833A by changing the resistor.
Has anyone made a complete description table for the resistors?

[bostonman]

I'm a bit confused.

My scope is an 54831M (I believe research showed this means 'military'), and the prefix in the S/N is SG; also the scope runs Win98.

Long story short, the hard drive is a 120GB SSD (I didn't have a smaller one at the time) with an IDE adapter. Currently the scope works fine except I'm a slave to keeping a backup copy of the hard drive (technically a zip someone sent, but would need to install a bunch of other stuff - so I prefer making an image copy of the existing drive).

My goal is to use a smaller hard drive (I think the whole scope uses a few gigabytes or hard drive space - I recently purchased a 32GB - which I was shocked existed). To do this, I planned to create an image from the 120GB with only the "used" space, and then burn that image to the 32GB.

The image I used to make this working drive was sent by someone on here (big appreciation for it too), but, I'd like the ability to install the original (i.e. raw) stuff from the FTP (which someone else also uploaded earlier in this thread - another big appreciation for that).

Going through the FTP stuff (and the PDF instructions), it looks like different installation directories are used for different scope models that differ by serial number prefix and/or letter after the model ('M' in my case).

The confusing part is that I've read various PDFs from Agilent and can't figure out if I can update to XP. One article stated that an upgrade kit needs to be purchased which has XP on a hard drive within the kit, and a normal XP disk won't work if installed.

I also read another EEVblog thread that mentioned transferring drivers from Win98 to XP in order to upgrade, but, I'd assume XP should have all the necessary drivers (i.e motherboard, cards, etc..).

My first question is whether anyone has upgraded to XP by simply installing XP and maybe the FTP files that may have the actual scope software on it?

If it's too involved, I think Win98 is good enough. Currently it runs Win98, I have a PDF creator, and a USB driver, all which allows me to "print" a scope screen and save it to a thumb drive. Also, it runs my wireless keyboard/mouse. So technically, why complain since I have all the necessary functions, however, as mentioned, I'd like to have a nice raw installation without using an image from the hard drive of another person.

As for installing Win98 from the FTP stuff sent in a previous message within this thread, it looks like I need to figure out which one works for my model; or I can just use my existing image.

I do fear that the hard drive may crash, so I plan to make multiple images, but much rather install from a raw Agilent original and especially try upgrading to XP.

Currently I have one zip file (the working one) that is about 8GB, and three or four more zips (one being the FTP sent earlier in this thread). Needless to say, I'm currently occupying a fair amount of hard drive space on my PC just as a precaution; hence why I'd like one simple couple gigabytes of a working image.

[coromonadalix]

Sometimes an w98 to xp "UPGRADE"  can work, because xp will take over w98 and use the same drivers or beter ones if it have them,   but there is no garanties that xp will have everything in it to make it work first time, or be able to run the W98 drivers, or use the compatibility mode ??

IF agilent doesnt provide any xp based software for the equipment, you do it at your own risks

Thats why  you should clone the drive and try to work with the clone, not the original ......

[bostonman]

Thats why  you should clone the drive and try to work with the clone, not the original ......

Unless the FTP files contain the correct full working Win98, I'm not working with an original since the existing was uploaded by another user.

As for installing XP over Win98, it's been a while, but does XP wipe out the drive? If I understood your statement correctly, you mean install Win98, get the scope working, take an XP disk, and install over everything?

[coromonadalix]

Xp  could do an in place upgrade  in the old days  loll

EXAMPLE:
https://www.pearsonitcertification.com/articles/article.aspx?p=381919&seqNum=2


You had the upgrade path  and a full installation

[bostonman]

Wow, it's been so long since I've installed an OS; and over an existing.

This gives me another path to try. Until recently (prior to receiving the FTP), I planned to backup the existing working drive into a smaller size (by only copying used sectors), then I thought a fresh install from the FTP, then XP, now maybe I'll try a fresh install by way of the FTP stuff and then try upgrading to XP.

I'll be happy if this works as I like my scope works as is with Win98, but having XP would be nicer.

[free_electron]

it doesn't matter waht OS the scope is running, as you don't interact with it. You only work with the scope application.
The only reason to update the OS would be to be able to run later versions of the scope application but your hardware needs to support that.

You need to treat these machines as a black box. A scope is a scope, not a general purpose computer. You wouldn't rip your old analog scope apart to tinker in its guts. Neither should you on these machines. The number of side effects is unpredictable.

the M version is military. The only difference is that they came out of Singapore and not malaysia. USmilitary will not buy from malaysia , so they shipped the parts over the border, finished assembly in singapore and all is well for the paperwork.

[bostonman]

You bring up some valid points. Guess I somewhat got caught up with seeing others upgrade to XP (and I think even newer versions of Windows) and got jealous.

I do hold my breath though on some things. It was a struggle trying to find a PDF writer to save scope captures (think out of five or six only one worked), and then a struggle to find drivers for USB sticks. Obviously I have backups, but feel if in the future I lose them (then again, that means I lose the hard drive images too rendering my scope useless unless I find the software again), finding Win98 stuff will be much harder than XP stuff.

In any case, I think your points are valid and maybe I'll just focus on using the FTP files. If that's too time consuming or doesn't work, then I'll just make a shrunken image of the exiting working drive (shrunken because I'm wasting a 120GB and rather put a smaller one).

So the scope loads windows, loads the scope software, and then just commits them to memory without every needing to use any further software? Does this mean hypothetically the hard drive can be removed once the scope fully loads (not going to try it, just asking if it literally commits everything to memory).

The only files I found that changed on the hard drive were the cal and self test (I ran both tests, did a full search, and found only two text files changed date, indicating these are the files that tell the scope the calibration and self test stuff). Now that I know about committing things to memory, then it probably just writes these text files upon running the tests.

Do scope settings get saved to memory or the hard drive? When I reload the scope, seems all my settings remain from the previous time.

the M version is military. The only difference is that they came out of Singapore and not malaysia. USmilitary will not buy from malaysia , so they shipped the parts over the border, finished assembly in singapore and all is well for the paperwork.

Wow, you know a good amount about the history of these scopes, and very interesting.

[ARF]

I read the posts above about 54831M. So I don't understand what the problem is.
I have a 54831D that I bought in 2015 and it had an erased hard drive. I ordered OS recovery discs from Agilent (it was free). They sent me 2 CDs for recovery and for updating software based on Windows 98. It turned out that they do not distribute Windows XP on CDs due to the fact that they could not negotiate with Microsoft (licensing problems). The first copies of 8583x released on the Win 98, then they were upgraded to Win XP. If the user wanted to update his oscilloscope on his own, then he had to buy an Agilent HDD with the Win XP software pre-installed.
Your oscilloscope is a 54831B, so the HDD image you want is the HDD image from the 5483x. I think that there are many people in the community who can share this image with you. After that, you can update the oscilloscope software to 5.71 and enable all possible options.
Right now (I'm in a different location) I have a 54830B with Win XP and a 10GB hard drive and Win XP fits nicely in there (This is a full factory oscilloscope, no modifications). I advise you to buy an SSD and install a new OS on the SSD.

[bostonman]

I ordered OS recovery discs from Agilent (it was free). They sent me 2 CDs for recovery and for updating software based on Windows 98.

Really? I've searched and never found anything. Users have sent images and zips of the entire FTP site which I believe is no longer online. My previous posts have stated that, although I've obtained images from others (which I greatly appreciate) and the zip of the FTP site, I was trying to install a raw version (which I should be able to do from the FTP site someone posted).

It turned out that they do not distribute Windows XP on CDs due to the fact that they could not negotiate with Microsoft (licensing problems).

Yes, this is what I read too.

After that, you can update the oscilloscope software to 5.71

Hmmm I am not seeing 5.71 in any of the stuff I've saved. Does it work on Win98 and what extra options does it provide?

As for XP, I think I'll take the road previously suggested and just not worry about it unless I can do it easy enough. Just to clarify though, I did read that an XP image drive can be purchased, but, which steps are to be taken to install XP and the scope software? Is it just a matter of installing XP from a CD, and then one of the Agilent versions?

[Tony_G]

Just a thought - If you have an image of the existing drive then you could just try using the recovery images in my OneDrive to install from scratch - If it turns out to suck then you can just go back to the original image that you have.

My unit is a 54845A so I've never tried the XP recovery stuff but, as I said previously, what is in my OneDrive is everything that HPAK had on their FTP site at the time. Quick edit, it seems that the XP stuff for your scope is in "...\54845A\54845A\548xx\Upg_Rec\5483x".

FYI I did do a recovery for my machine and everything worked as documented but I have no idea how the 54831 would turn out.

Sorry, I can't provide more insight.

TonyG

[bostonman]

Just a thought - If you have an image of the existing drive then you could just try using the recovery images in my OneDrive to install from scratch - If it turns out to suck then you can just go back to the original image that you have.

That's basically what I plan to do. Currently I have a 120GB and initially wanted to reduce the size (through Linux or a Windows program I have that will copy only used stuff to reduce the size) so I can fit it on a smaller hard drive. If I use my duplicator, it needs at least a 120GB destination drive, and, if the original is 119.9GB and the destination is less (by any small amount), then it will fail. This means I need to buy a 320GB (or find a drive that's 120GB and hope my original is 119.9GB which is next to impossible), and, if in the future I want to back up that drive, then I need a bigger one, etc...

I'd rather install from your FTP stuff (i.e. Onedrive) onto the 32GB drive I bought, see it installs cleanly, install the USB drivers, install the PDF creator, and be done knowing I have a full copy of your Onedrive for future needs. If I can upgrade to XP just as easy, it makes sense to do this, but, if there is a version called 5.71 with more options, then it would be cool to get this.

The previous advice about why bother upgrading is valid. As I mentioned, the only advantage I see is that XP seems slightly more accepted as an OS with more options where new hardware has a better chance at working than Win98. So far though, Win98 works with the PDF creator I'm using, the USB drivers someone provided, and my wireless keyboard/mouse, so I am quite happy..... just rather a raw install onto a smaller drive.

[ARF]

What difficulties do you have... Everything is simple and reliable there.

You need to install XP, the only way you can unlock the options. There is an CD drive on the back of your oscilloscope. If you are afraid to disassemble the oscilloscope to extract the HDD, then you can do it without disassembly, but I strongly advise you to buy an SSD, and just keep the original HDD.

I can give you an image that I received from a person on the Internet in 2015 and upgraded my 54831D from 98 to XP.

You need to take 4 steps:
1. Burn any MS-DOS with support for CD drivers to a CD (Hiren's BootCD), a 3.5 floppy disk is also possible.
2. Burn the CD with the 5483x HDD image and deploy the image to the internal drive.
3. Burn the image with the usual Windows XP, boot from it and make and execute the "mbrfix" command.
4. Perform a self-check and calibration.
5. Optionally update the software to 5.71 and enable all options.

I have all this and I will share the files with you.

If you wait a bit... I ordered an SSD for my 54830B. I am planning to make an image with my internal HDD and clone to SSD. So I will go through these steps now and be able to give you a new image of the 5483x FACTORY XP HDD and describe exactly the steps on how to proceed, as I will be doing in about 2 weeks.

[bostonman]

I appreciate your offer and maybe I'll take you up on it, but I have received similar images from others (again, which is why my scope is actually working now).

My experience with installing software (much like others) is to install the OS first, and then install the software (Agilent in this case). Per your instructions, I'm installing the software first, and then installing XP from the CD, correct?

Keep in mind, my "original" HDD isn't original. This unit had channels 2 and 3 as a 50ohm failure. Shortly after buying it (fully knowing the two channels were bad) the SSD hard drive got corrupt. I'm uncertain if the hard drive was an image of the original, but the owner sent his saved image to me, however, it didn't boot the Agilent software (Windows booted fine, but it never initialized into the scope software).

This lead me down the path of trying to find an image online. Someone sent a (approx.) 22GB full image, another sent a smaller image, etc... All of which I was extremely grateful for. Eventually I found an image that worked, but all I had was a 120GB spare drive and said screw it, let me use this.

Now I have a few images from various people (with at least one known good one), a 120GB drive that works fine in my scope, but only occupies a fraction of the drive, etc...  As mentioned, I'd like to keep back up SSD's should this one become corrupt. In doing so, I'd like to install a raw Agilent version rather than stealing an image from someone else (even though they work fine).

On a side note, per your question on whether I'm comfortable disassembling this scope. I actually fixed channels 2 and 3. I traced the circuits by hand, discovered a previous owner changed a few components, the Agilent hybrid chips were bad, etc... I bought used hybrid chips from China (possibly fake?), researched which part types were replaced (all thanks to the help of people on here) because one was a three legged component that I didn't have a clue what it was, etc... Also had to replace a broken ZIF connector, replaced the power supply fan, etc...

I replaced the components, questionable components, hybrid chips, calibrated, self test, etc... and the unit works like a charm now. Needless to say, I'm quite comfortable with getting inside this unit.

As for why I'm not leaving well enough alone. Again, it's mainly due to wanting backup SSD's and finding that I need to reduce the existing 120GB size rather than waste money on 320GB drives, and, while I'm at it, maybe I can upgrade to XP (or just have a raw image to install).

[ARF]

1. You will install the Windows XP system right along with the Agilent software and along with the recovery partition. As far as I know, Agilent did not release their software for these oscilloscopes in the form of an installer application, you can only install an update.
2. You may need a CD disk with the original XP to configure the XP's bootloader.

The original HDD image cannot be 120GB. The original hard drives were 10-20GB, where the usable data was 2-3GB.

As for the SSD, I bought on Ebay Micron p300 50GB disks based on SLC memory. This is due to the fact that old Windows cannot work correctly with SSD disks and do not execute TRIM commands and so on. It would be optimal to find an old disk (or special) that itself performs all the cleaning functions and on reliable memory - SLC. But this is not very important and my opinion may be wrong. Any modern disk on the MLC and TLC will also work well and probably for a very long time.

[coromonadalix]

You have some slipstreamed xp versions with added sata drivers  on archive.org


You have the famous RyanVm unofficial sp4 xp pack
https://ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10321#p133918

It was well done at the time,  never had problems with it ....


And you have    https://driverpack.io/en   
They had a complete installable pack  with tons of sata drivers in them, BUT   if i recall they where installing some driverpack.io software along them  ... wich was nagging and you could remove it in the add remove panel


For the drive you have what they call  DISK ON MODLE aka (DOM) too   Sata or Ide models, they plug directly on the ide or sata port and need an 5 vols supply
These are used in industrial environements ...

BUT like written on a previous post  you have to choose a drive who will not bark  with the trim command  ... The suggested model seems fine with a very good price.

The trim is seen as an automatic defragmentation, and sometimes windows defrag would not operate / cope well with this ... and created some abusive wear and tear .. in the first trim implementations

Now some drives will automaticaly trim themselves ...

Im not pushing or make publicity of the softwares  READ THIS:

https://www.reneelab.com/windows-xp-ssd.html

Mostly this line

To install Windows XP on a SSD, you need AHCI mode enabled in BIOS/UEFI. Windows XP doesn’t support the SSD TRIM command. The system will run slowly and the SSD will be worn greatly if Windows XP is installed on the SSD. The common tool, such as SSD Trim, is incapable of sending TRIM command.

[ARF]

Don't mix everything together. No SATA drivers are needed, AHCI is also not needed. The SATA drive must be connected via the SATA to IDE adapter. Yes, TRIM will not work and it is better to take an SSD on SLC and with internal garbage collection mechanisms.

Wait a bit, I'll get the disks and the adapter, will do it on my oscilloscope and will make an instruction for you.

[free_electron]

just order some old IDE laptop drives from fujitsu .12 to 30 GB ( dont cross the 32gb barrier. that gives trouble)

[bostonman]

You need to take 4 steps:
1. Burn any MS-DOS with support for CD drivers to a CD (Hiren's BootCD), a 3.5 floppy disk is also possible.
2. Burn the CD with the 5483x HDD image and deploy the image to the internal drive.
3. Burn the image with the usual Windows XP, boot from it and make and execute the "mbrfix" command.
4. Perform a self-check and calibration.
5. Optionally update the software to 5.71 and enable all options.

Step 1 make sense because I need the scope to have the ability to boot from the CD.

Step 2, the stuff I have contains two sub-directories under 548xx\Upg_Rec\5483x\. The two sub-directories are: 5483XRecovery2_1.iso and inf_83X_up23.iso.

Within inf_83X_up23.iso is an exe named: AG5483Ldr.exe which, from what I've seen, is the actual scope software.

I assume this is the iso that needs to be deployed, but what exactly am I doing? Am I clicking on AG5483Ldr.exe to install the software?

Step 3 I'm a bit confused by. Am I booting the scope with the XP CD installed, am I booting an XP image file that's within this Agilent FTP zip I downloaded, etc...?

Step 5, where do I get the 5.71 image as I don't see it anywhere on this zip? Is this what you suggested, ordering it directly from Agilent?

[ARF]

Of course you don't have any of that, I didn't give you links.
Wait a bit, I'll get the SSD, I'll do it at my place and I'll make a more convenient instruction for you.

[bostonman]

Oh okay.... Thought I already had everything needed except 5.71. I can wait, but is it possible to get raw stuff rather than a iso of an existing hard drive that's been setup in another scope?

[bostonman]

Of course you don't have any of that, I didn't give you links.
Wait a bit, I'll get the SSD, I'll do it at my place and I'll make a more convenient instruction for you.

May I ask how you're coming along with this? I need my scope for work and trying to avoid reassembling to disassemble again.

[ARF]

I'm not in the US, so the delivery is not so fast. SSDs will be delivered only after the 20th.

If you're in a hurry, I sent you a private message:

- the HDD image that is suitable for 5483xB/D (i got this image in 2015)
- updating the sw to 5.71.
- patch for 5.71.

You need to deploy the image to HDD, update the sw, install the patch.
As far as I remember, for the correct boot I needed a CD disk with Windows XP, where I performed the bootloader recovery via the "fixmbr" command.
This was all in 2015(so I might forget some details), but you can try it right now.

May I clarify, is there a Motorola VP22 motherboard inside your oscilloscope?

[bostonman]

Yes, VP22 revision A4

I'll check the private message in a minute, but wanted to clarify. I'm not exactly in a rush, but predict I'll need it sometime late this week.

I can use the image you're sending, but this would mean I'd still have to assemble it to disassemble it again; whereas I'd like to just do it once and be done if possible.

[ARF]

The HDD image is 1.5GB, is means that you can't just write it to 1 CD disk.
You will need an external USB drive/flash drive and a bootable CD disk that will include the drivers for the USB media. I think in 2015 I used "Hiren's BootCD" for this.
Or you can split the image into 3 CDs. Inside the oscilloscope is the most ordinary PC, so there are many options.

[bostonman]

I'm not in the US, so the delivery is not so fast. SSDs will be delivered only after the 20th.

If you're in a hurry, I sent you a private message:

I'm not exactly in a rush, but rather avoid doing this multiple times. Regardless if I go with the image you posted (much appreciated) or I stick the working drive back in, I'll end up doing it a second time when you get the new image.

For now I'll hold off unless I absolutely need the scope.

As for the drive you're waiting for, you ordered this directly from Agilent, so it's a raw (i.e. virgin) image? If so, can you image it before you install it in the scope?

Also, if it's this easy to order one, should I just order my own?

[bostonman]

Have you received the hard drive and/or made any progress?

[bostonman]

I wanted to reach out again to find out how things are going.

[ARF]

@bostonman

I sent a PM to you.

1. Burn a CD with Paragon Hard Disk Manager 12.
2. Unzip the archive to a USB flash drive.
3. Boot from the CD. In Acronis, specify the folder with the archive on the USB flash drive and deploy it to your HDD. The Acronis window does not fit well into the 640x480 screen, but you can shrink the window by the top edge with the mouse.
NOTE: You can create an image of your HDD on the USB flash drive before step 3. It might come in handy.
4. After the rebooting, the system will boot, the drivers will be installed, and after the second rebooting, the oscilloscope will work as usual. You will need to do the auto-calibration.

5. Optional. The HDD has a factory recovery partition. You can do a "super clean install". After turning on the oscilloscope, press and hold the "control" key. You will be enter to the bootloader, select the recovery partition and click the restore button. So the system partition will be overwritten with a clean factory image.
6. Optional 2. Install Agilent software update and options. You already have everything for this.

If you want, you can send me your phone in a private message, we can update your oscilloscope in real time, I will help you.

I have tested this image with SSD and modern HDD.

[bostonman]

Just an FYI, I'll be installing this on a brand new 32GB hard drive (i.e. virgin). The other hard drive has already been imaged.

Crazy question, but should I consider making a second partition to have the option of booting either OS; one for XP and one for Win98?

The steps you provided seem very straight forward and much easier than the Win98 install (although I haven't done an install from scratch, but the write up looks more involved).

As for using Paragon Hard Disk Manager, it's not free. Do you recommend anything else?

[ARF]

Did you look at my link?

If you just installed a 32GB IDE SSD, then there are problems. In 2023, a 32GB SSD is either a very expensive SSD for industrial usage, or Chinese garbage. Second problem. The oscilloscope uses the 40pin(44pin for 2.5") IDE cable to the hard drive. The transfer speed is limited to 33MB/s (ATA 33). The real read and write speed will be less than 30MB/s. You can get around this problem by using a SATA adapter (and SATA SSD) or an adapter to a classic big (for 3.5" devices) IDE cable. Only in this case, the UDMA 100 mode will be turned on and the read/write speed will be 70-80MB/s

Yes, you can manually write a Win 98 partition to an empty space on the disk and add this partition to the bootloader, which you can enter by pressing the control button. However, this doesn't make any sense. The XP version of the software is better in everything and only complements the old one.

[bostonman]

Did you look at my link?

Yes, it contained just a zip file that was (I assume) the XP image (per the file name). I didn't see anything else, did I miss something related to the Paragon Hard Disk Manager? I tried searching for it and their webpage showed the need to purchase it.

Sorry for the confusion on the SSD. Thought I mentioned in a previous post that I have an adapter. The scope already has an SSD (120GB) with the adapter. So it goes from the 40-pin IDE in the scope to the adapter, and then the SSD. It's been working great so far, but, as for transfer speed, I'm uncertain if it's transferring at the full potential. For the most part, unless the scope needs to access the HD to take measurements, whether it boots slower isn't really important to me.

From my understanding, once the scope software is booted, the hard drive is no longer accessed. Am I messing up anything by using the adapter and SSD or am I just sacrificing boot up time?

In 2023, a 32GB SSD is either a very expensive SSD for industrial usage, or Chinese garbage.

This isn't good. I bought two of these (Transcend SSD3705) because I thought using anything large was a waste of a hard drive since I noticed the entire hard drive uses something like 1GB (let's call it 2GB for purposes of discussion). I couldn't find any hard drives that were smaller than 120GB or so, and it didn't seem worth spending the money; also think Win98 doesn't see 120GB or larger.

Apparently I shouldn't waste my time with these hard drives then? I don't remember what I paid, but they weren't expensive. I actually planned to make a nice raw installation, completely clean, get the scope running (calibration, install a PDF software to print to a PDF file, and any necessary drivers), and then make images of that drive should I experience a HD failure in the future; I even planned to buy two more 32GB so I'd have the main one in the scope and three backups.

[ARF]

Your SSD is OK enough for this application.

I checked the link, there are two files.

[bostonman]

Odd, I didn't see both before, but I saw them now. I'm downloading them as I type.

Unfortunately I'm uncertain if I'll get to this before the weekend, however, I will keep you posted.

Thanks again.

[bostonman]

1. Burn a CD with Paragon Hard Disk Manager 12.

Think I know the answer to this, but this is to be done by a program that will make the CD bootable, correct?

What is the purpose of the Paragon Hard Disk manager? I assume things will become clearer once I start the process, but wanted to get some clarification ahead of time. As stated before, I'm use to sticking a CD in and letting it install, so to me, this XP should be similar, however, after looking at the ZIP contents, it doesn't appear to be your typical standalone installation CD.

[bostonman]

I'm having issues with Paragon.

I've tried different programs. One alerts me that it doesn't have any boot information, others don't allow DVD ROM access for some reason; just thumb drive (which doesn't work in the scope because it doesn't have USB support on startup - or believe this is the issue).

What is needed to get Paragon onto a CD?

[coromonadalix]

I think there is a few things you dont understand

If you need to clone a drive, it must not be used / booted,  you remove the drive and use another computer to do the job

WHY  if it's the case, an booted os, will protect some of it's drivers / files from being accessed externally by other softwares


And  you have some  called WINPE bootables cd-rom with tons of apps  to help,  WINPE is a minimalist windows bootable version ....

EX: https://www.geckoandfly.com/32030/bootable-windows-pe-recovery-repair/

[ARF]

If you are using Win10, then just right-click - burn the ISO image or any program for burning СD.
After that you can boot from this CD your scope. By default in BIOS the first boot device is CD-ROM, if it is not, then change it.

[bostonman]

If you need to clone a drive, it must not be used / booted,  you remove the drive and use another computer to do the job

If you read through the thread, you'll see I'm trying to install a whole new OS from scratch.

If you are using Win10, then just right-click - burn the ISO image or any program for burning СD.
After that you can boot from this CD your scope. By default in BIOS the first boot device is CD-ROM, if it is not, then change it.

From my understanding, I need the Paragon ISO to be burnt onto a CD in a way that gets extracted as a bootable CD. I think the method you mention would burn it as a ISO file.

In any case, I'm using Win7 and can't get Paragon onto a CD. Rufus, WinISO, etc... aren't working. They are only seeing thumbdrives in some cases, one program states the ISO doesn't contain boot information, etc...

[ARF]

There should be no problem burning the ISO image to the CD. Any recording program should do this correctly.

In any case, I won't be able to test it until next week. I almost completely disassembled my oscilloscope and ordered new electrolytic capacitors, which will be after the 20th.

[bostonman]

Maybe I'm wrong, but if I just burn it as a file, it will burn it to the CD as a file without any bootable information.

I guess my question is: what is the purpose of using Paragon? I'm a bit confused over the connection between the XP stuff you provided and Paragon. I'm guessing it's a bootable CD but also provides tools to install the XP CD, but can this be done with another piece of software?

Anyway, as you stated, you can't do much at the moment. I'll either keep trying or wait for further direction once you get the scope together.

[ARF]

My poor knowledge of English does not allow me to somehow joke ...

This CD image from the link is a special boot disk from Paragon. Nothing needs to be added from the outside, everything is already inside, it is not designed for Windows, it is only needed to boot from it.

Paragon - is needed in order to write the oscilloscope HDD image to a physical HDD inside the scope.

If the oscilloscope could boot from a flash drive, then I would give you one image for the flash drive, which would include a program for writing to HDD and an image for recording.

However, the oscilloscope cannot boot from a USB flash drive, so you need an CD disk to boot, and the recording image itself will be on a USB flash drive separately. Is it clear?

[bostonman]

I managed to get Paragon on an IDE drive. The problem I was having: my work laptop (my main computer) that has Win10 prevents me from installing any software (because it's a work laptop), but it doesn't have a DVD ROM regardless.

My Win7 laptop wouldn't burn Paragon to a CD for some reason. This left me with little to no options.

Anyway, I used an IDE to USB to connect an IDE drive to the laptop. Once I got that connected, I burned Paragon onto the IDE drive.

After I connected the IDE drive with Paragon on one IDE connector in the scope and a blank 32GB SSD on another connector (same IDE cable). The Paragon drive booted as a master with the blank as a slave.

The scope booted Paragon and I did a restore (by having Agilent_5483x_HDD_WINXP on the thumbdrive, however, once I booted the scope after the restore, I got a Smart Boot Manager 3.7.1.1 screen. It wouldn't allow me to do anything because it kept asking for a password.

I have no clue what this Smart Boot Manager is and why the scope didn't boot XP.

Do you know any reason for this?

[ARF]

This is weird. This is usually due to the psychical sector size and the fact that the recovery program is trying to align the partition with respect to the physical sector of the disk. I tested it on SSD and HDD - it worked for me, but you have a different SSD.

This bootloader you see has to choose between the boot partition and the recovery partition and it didn't find the partitions due to their new offset.

Password - "agilent"

Try to autosearch partitions "ctrl+h" and boot partition 1 if it is found.

You can work with the standard Windows XP bootloader, only in this case the recovery section will not be available. This will be discussed later.

[bostonman]

This is weird. This is usually due to the psychical sector size and the fact that the recovery program is trying to align the partition with respect to the physical sector of the disk. I tested it on SSD and HDD - it worked for me, but you have a different SSD.

This may be due to the day before I had to abort the installation, so maybe it created a second partition. Anyway, thanks for the password (I should have considered 'agilent in the first place). Once I entered the password, I deleted that boot mean and XP loaded.

Unfortunately I continue having issues. Once XP booted, I heard a single relay click, and then I got errors (see attached). I tried a reboot and holding CTRL in hopes of doing a fresh install (per your previous statement), but that only brought me back to XP desktop without loading the scope program.

I clicked on the scope program icon and got the same error.

I thought maybe it had something to do with the bootloader menu, I decided to start fresh. I removed the SSD, deleted the partitions, formatted the drive with a full single partition, and reinstalled XP.

One of the attached pictures is named 'Confusing Menu', I don't understand the purpose of this step. The first step I need to select the ISO (which is on the thumb drive), the second menu is the "Confusing Menu", and the third asks for which drive to install the ISO. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong on the "Confusing Menu".

In any case, the scope program didn't load, so I'm uncertain what else could be wrong. I'll try another install of the ISO, but not sure if this will solve the problem.

[ARF]

You did everything right, you need to restore the HDD, not partitions, so your choice is the first line - "recover HDD"

After you have done auto search for partitions in the bootloader, you should get 2 partitions in the list. Try to boot from the second partition - this is the factory system recovery partition and restore a "clean system" from it.

I do not like that in your case the partitions have shifted, but since you have disassembled the oscilloscope and know how to connect a second HDD, then we can try other more reliable cloning options. For now, try what I suggested above.

[Jwalling]

If you can email me a USPS medium flat rate box label, I'll send you a pre-imaged XP disk drive with everything to get you up and running. Just drop it in and go. Send me a PM if you're interested.

If you want me to put it on your SSD, I can do that as well.
Jay

[bostonman]

so your choice is the first line - "recover HDD"

Where do you see recover HDD in my screen shot? Or are you talking a different menu?

If you can email me a USPS medium flat rate box label, I'll send you a pre-imaged XP disk drive with everything to get you up and running. Just drop it in and go. Send me a PM if you're interested.

If you want me to put it on your SSD, I can do that as well.

Thanks, let me keep this as an option for now as I'd like to figure this out on my own.

[ARF]

"Basic MBR Hard disk"

[bostonman]

So I don't check anything on this screen?

What is the purpose of this step? The on screen directions don't explain what they are asking for.

[ARF]

Purpose - you can restore the entire HDD or a separate selected partition.

Have you already tried booting from the recovery partition?

[bostonman]

Steps tried so far:

Burned the ISO onto the SSD and got the Smart Boot Manager
Removed the Smart Boot Manager
XP Loaded but got the error screen when it tried booting the scope program (screen shot posted in a previous message)
Removed SSD, deleted all partitions, created a single partition the size of the hard drive, and formatted it using default sector size
Reinstalled the ISO
System didn't boot - just showed a flashing cursor
Removed the SSD, deleted all partitions, created a single partion the size of the hard drive, and formatted it using default sector size
Posted the message to the thread to figure out which steps to take next time
Will try your suggestions hopefully tonight or sometime this week

[ARF]

Huh.. man.. we are spammers!

Send in my PM your phone or something WhatsApp/Telegram so.. we can speak in real time.

[bostonman]

Where are you located?

I don't have WhatsApp or whatever, so we'll see, but I plan to tinker more this weekend.

[ARF]

Georgia, UTC+4

[bostonman]

Yesterday I tried this again and unfortunately I got the same application error as I did the first time.

Attached is a PDF of all the screen captures as I went through the process.

The setup: an IDE 5.25" drive is connected to one IDE connector, and this has Paragon on it which the scope boots from. The freshly formatted SSD 32GB (which reads somewhere around 29.8GB) is on the other IDE connector; both on the same IDE cable (one primary, one secondary). The USB (labled: 4GB_Drive) has the Agilent scope software on it.

The screen shots show which options are selected just as I'm about to select 'next'. The SSD was formatted with a label of 'Agilent' and shows as Agilent (C:) Basic MBR Hard Disk 0 (TS32GSSD270S).

It took approximately 60min to complete the restore. Once finished, I turned off the scope, disconnected the USB and 5.25" leaving just the SSD (which now has the XP image) and booted the scope.

The scope booted showing the XP splash screen, eventually the desktop, began installing drivers as it found hardware, went to boot the scope software, I heard a single relay click, and it gave an error. Once I clicked 'close', the scope froze.

I tried rebooting by turning off the scope. The same thing series of events happened (except it no longer needed to install anymore drivers), the scope software went to load, I heard a relay click, got an error, I clicked 'close', and it was frozen.

Thinking maybe it just needed time, I let it sit for several minutes, however, it remained frozen.

I couldn't figure out how to boot the factory image. Previously you mentioned holding down the CTRL key, but that didn't work. As you mentioned, we can chat, however, the steps to do this is quite time consuming, so I don't think we'd accomplish much. The screen captures are a good visual of what I did, also, this is exactly what has happened two or three previous times I installed the XP image.

[ARF]

Hold "CTRL", turn on the scope and wait..
You should enter in Smart Boot Manager.
Make screenshot for me.

[bostonman]

I selected ‘recovery system’ (see attached), it showed a Win98 splash screen, and seemed to freeze. I let it sit for about ten-minutes and nothing happened.

I had to call it a night, but will return to it tomorrow - but looks like it doesn’t want to boot.

[ARF]

This means that the partition was not restored correctly.

I also had this, I tried a lot of programs for cloning disks. My task was to ensure that it would be possible to restore the system without disassembling the oscilloscope. Modern cloning programs either did not start or did not fit into the screen, some of them incorrectly detected disks. I think I have tried over ten different programs and versions. An additional problem is that modern programs try to align partitions according to the physical sector of the drives, which are different between HDDs and SSDs, and even between models. If you have a modern operating system, then there is no problem for it, no matter what the offset is. However, we have a rather old and non-standard structure on the disk.

- Smart Boot Manager for selecting partitions - offsets are important to it.
- Partition with Windows XP
- Hidden FAT16 partition with DOS and Norton Ghost recovery program.

When I gave you the first link - there are files from the factory recovery partition and a recovery program. If you write them to a second disk and make it bootable with DOS, then we can only recover the Windows XP partition. However, there will be no Smart Boot Manager and you need to use the bootloader repair utility for Windows XP.

Now I'm trying to back up via the old Norton Ghost that is used in the factory recovery partition. I think that this old DOS program will handle the disk structure more accurately and legacy partitions will always work correctly.

Once again I apologize for wasting time, I'm just trying to create a universal and convenient recovery image for everyone.

[bostonman]

Hmmmm not sure what's going on. You had mentioned a few messages ago to hold CTRL, which I did, but it only booted to XP without loading anything in the startup.

Yesterday I held the CTRL key before powering the scope, and held it the whole time. I got the menu shown in my previous post, it loaded the Win98 splash screen, and then froze.

Today I did the exact same steps and it immediately went to the recovery menu (see attached). i did a factory restore, rebooted the scope, it did a hard drive scan for some reason, XP desktop loaded, and the scope initialized (I still need to do a calibration and self test).

Does this mean I still need to worry about what you referred to (sector alignment and stuff)?

I don't understand why the XP install didn't initalize the scope, and it took a factory reinstall to make it work.

I assume this factory partition is still on the hard drive allowing me to do a fresh install any time?

Also, I don't see any additoinal features that Win98 didn't have. From quickly looking at the menus it looks like the same features. Do I need to activate features?

With Win98 the scope could be turned off without needing to shut down windows. From what I can tell, I can minimize the scope software (unlike Win98). Does this mean I'll cause issues if I just press the power button rather than do a shutdown?

[ARF]

It is very strange. Should either work or not.
Now your scope program is running, is there an oscillogram?

[bostonman]

Now your scope program is running, is there an oscillogram?

I haven't taken measurements, but I turned channels on/off and it looks just like Win98 (including the drop down menu options) except I can minimize the screen and be on XP Desktop.

[ARF]

I don't know what you expected, of course everything is very similar.
Now you need to install the latest update 5.71, replace the .exe file and copy "options" file. And you will see the difference. You have everything for this.

As for the fact that from the beginning your oscilloscope program was crashed. I think that this is due to the fact that Win XP was used on a 2-channel oscilloscope (54830B) and was calibrated for this. And after the restore, you got a clean factory system that booted for the first time on your device, so there were no conflicts due to the old configuration. This led me to the idea that I only need to back up the recovery partition and the Smart Boot Manager. So that after restoring a copy of the HDD, a user would independently use the recovery partition and get a clean system.

[bostonman]

Now you need to install the latest update 5.71, replace the .exe file and copy "options" file. And you will see the difference. You have everything for this.

I forgot about 5.71.

I literally just finished the cal and self test when I got your message.

Which .exe file do I replace? I assume I just run 5.71, but looks like I need to execute extra steps.

[ARF]

1. Install 5.71 update.
2. Replace agscope.exe.
3. Copy license.dat to "scope" folder.
4. Restart the scope.

[bostonman]

I don't know what you expected, of course everything is very similar.

I'm not disappointed and hope I didn't imply that. I forgot about 5.71 and was thinking the additional features would be in XP, that's why I was baffled I didn't see any extra features.

Anyway, I've downloaded and tinkered with so many files that I want to confirm which file to use for 5.71:

SetupInfiniium05710000.exe

Is this the one I need to install?

[bostonman]

I think the file SetupInfiniium05710000.exe is in one of the three zip files you sent earlier, is this correct?

I must have five hard drive images along with various other stuff sent, so I'm slightly mixed up on where to get the 5.71 update.

[ARF]

See your PM.

[bostonman]

Thanks.

Looking at the readme, I want to run agscope1.exe because this is the cracked?


Thanks again... I've put all these files in one directory so I know these are the ones used for the XP install.

[bostonman]

I have updates.

Last update I provided on here was that I did a factory XP default install successfully, calibrated, and self-test. After I went to install 5.71 and hit a few snags.

The 5.71 install package began but got an Agilent LXI error (see pictures of most pictures I took along the way). After clicking 'ok', it showed 'succeeded', and continued installing the other packages. After it completed and showed all of 5.71 was installed, I copied the 'agscope1.exe' into the bin directory (if I remember correctly), deleted the agilent executable (whatever the name of it is - I don't have the scope in front of me at the moment), renamed agscope1.exe to the same executable file name that got deleted, and copied the license file to the main Agilent directory (I didn't know where to place the license file and believe this was the most obvious location).

I attempted to load the scope software and got a 'zlib1.dll' error. Not sure what to do, I tried reinstalling the 5.71 update package and only the LXI service was showing as needing to be installed.

This time it installed correctly, but uninstalled red eye pattern analysis in the process (no idea what this feature is and/or why it needed to be uninstalled after being installed).

After it was all done (maybe I rebooted before this) the scope software booted and the scope appeared to be working (see all attached pictures). It appeared some additional features were in the drop down menus making me believe things got installed correctly, but the snags I hit along the way make it appear I could come across issues in the future.

Questions:

1. I plan to do this over again for practice, but is there something I did wrong to get those errors? Did I move any of the files to the wrong directory or incorrectly name them?

2. Why is the hard drive space showing so small (it's a 32GB - actually 29.7GB drive)?

3. You mentioned enabling extra features but the boot time slowed. If I enable extra features, will it occupy more memory and slow down the scope?

[ARF]

I also got "Agilent LXI error" error when installing 5.71. Perhaps this is normal, because this installation package is for different oscilloscopes and for ours it is simply not needed. I'll try to clarify/confirm this somewhere.

You have no activated options, in the options section "none"

I did the installation of updates in this way:
1. Install package 5.71, go through problem with Agilent LXI.
2. I reboot the scope and start the installation again. This time the installation will complete.
3. I replace the agscope.exe file with a patched file.
4. Copy license.dat to the same directory as agscope.exe.

Partitions are smaller because you restored partitions without changing their offsets. If the offsets are changed and the partition is extended, then the Smart Boot Loader will require reconfiguration.
I spent a lot of time looking for a simple and universal solution, but the internal structure with Smart Boot Loader + XP partition + hidden FAT recovery partition cannot be logically restored and each part will need a separate approach. All this is very difficult and useless. So I stopped on two options.

1. Sector-by-sector copying with a free utility for Windows. Fast, accurate and simple. It can be implemented both on the oscilloscope itself without disassembly, and on a normal PC, if the disk is connected via USB or directly. If you want, I can give you a new image. This is much more convenient and a very accurate copy.

2. Restore only the Windows XP partition. In this case, you can implement partition alignment for XP and use all free disk space (expand partition). And for recovery, use the image on CD disks. This is how it was done for the oscilloscope with Windows 98 - there was no recovery partition, just the system and that's it. Recovery is making via CD discs or LS120 in older models.

I sent you the new link, if you want, you can test it. It is more convenient through a regular PC. You will get exactly the same result. You will need to restore the system through the recovery partition. Everything is as before, only easier and faster. If suddenly the recovery partition freezes on the Windows 98 logo, just reboot, don't wait.

[bostonman]

I sent you the new link, if you want, you can test it. It is more convenient through a regular PC. You will get exactly the same result. You will need to restore the system through the recovery partition. Everything is as before, only easier and faster. If suddenly the recovery partition freezes on the Windows 98 logo, just reboot, don't wait.

Is this the file you sent in the private message? I haven't had a chance to download it yet. As for the hard drive space, I'm slightly confused. Are you saying the file you sent will give me the full 32GB and I'll lose the factory recovery partition?

Other than having a 32GB drive and the scope only using 4GB with 3GB remaining, I don't necessarily have an issue with this unless adding options will decrease the hard drive space size. I don't plan to add every single option as I assume it will slow the scope (along with wasting memory), but I'll probably add some.

The only things I plan to add: a PDF creator so I can print the screen directly to PDF and space to save PDF files.

Only having 3GB remaining is a bit silly though, but, at the cost of having to mess around with partitions (I'm not very familiar with this area), maybe it's easier to just leave as is.

Good to know that LXI error is common. Seems like I did just about the entire install correctly and I'm impressed with the extra options in the agscope.exe file.

[ARF]

The options do not slow down anything, the XP system itself slows down the loading a little - it takes a little more resources (because it is more modern) and sometimes it takes longer to initialize the drivers.

Also, the options do not consume disk space, they simply enable some menu items in the agscope application.

The new file gives exactly the same result, only faster and more convenient. I wanted to do a logical restore, but I didn't succeed. So, I just made a sector-by-sector copy, so that the program does not analyze folders and files, but simply copies all the bytes sequentially. Because of this, the recovery file is much larger than the logical one.

The license file you have already contains some useful lines. So you can add and remove options at any time. Did you manage to copy it correctly and get working options?

You can create another partition and use all the remaining space for it. This will not create problems with the recovery partition. This can be done through - computer management - disk management.
https://www.iskysoft.com/data-recovery-tips/how-to-create-partition.html

A large number of options is due to the fact that this is a universal software that was installed on Infiniium oscilloscopes up to 13GHz.So.. that not everything will make sense or work on your 600MHz oscilloscope.

[bostonman]

I downloaded the file you sent and will try it over the weekend for fun (at this point I should be able to install it the regular way though).

It's an exe. Do I boot XP and then execute it from there?

[ARF]

It's executable WinRAR archive.
You need to unpack this archive on your PC, and write image to SSD.

[bostonman]

That image file you sent along with the img creator program was much more simple.

It seems I now have two methods of installing WinXP and both require the factory image installation afterwards (which is fine). I have another thread (started weeks ago) going on about expanding into an unallocated section of hard drive on another laptop (also running XP and Ubuntu) and I'm hoping to resolve it so I can use the same tactic for expanding into the unallocated section of this 32GB I'm using for the scope. Currently, as you know, XP and the factory install take up about 8GB, so I'm wasting over 20GB of unused space on the drive.

As for the license file, is that all the options? I know an options list exist, but I don't believe they have a description nor do I remember seeing how to activate any options.

Other than the options question above, I think my only other question is regarding a good PDF creator for XP. I was using PDF Creator for Win98, but that doesn't seem to work on XP, and so far nothing free I downloaded seemed to work on XP.

Other than those two questions, at the moment I think my scope is fully up and running with XP thanks to you. Once I get the issue of expanding into the unallocated section of the hard drive, calibrate, self-test, and reassemble, I should be done with this project; unless you know of something else I should do beforehand.

[ARF]

I have already tested and created an image for the system recovery second  option. I removed the Smart Boot Loader and returned the standard Windows XP bootloader, so that any recovery program now works correctly with the partition and now we can use the entire disk space (expand partition).

The second interesting fact is that I have a factory restore partition file that I received from a person on the Internet in 2015 and used it all this time on the 54831D. This is a factory recovery image, not a full disk copy. Interestingly, it is newer than the one currently on my 54830B.

On the 54830B, the system is restored to version 3.10, and that copy is version 3.70. On version 3.70, the latest update installs without problems and without the "Agilent LXI" error

However, the hardware (motherboard or processor model or whatever) was different when installing Windows XP with version 3.70, so when deploying the image, the system requires activation. This is not a problem, there are many different cracks, but there is also a legal method. The Windows XP system can be activated by phone without any problems, only from my location the call will be very expensive.

I think the best option is to use this 3.70 image without any extra parts like smart bootloader or recovery partition. They are useless when you have recovery discs.

----------

Do you have a photo of your acquisition board? It's a big board on the bottom side of the scope.

[bostonman]

I have already tested and created an image for the system recovery second  option. I removed the Smart Boot Loader and returned the standard Windows XP bootloader, so that any recovery program now works correctly with the partition and now we can use the entire disk space (expand partition).

I'm slightly confuse. Does this mean you have another file that will not allow me to use the entire 32GB drive?

The only thing holding me back from prepping to seal the scope is how to allocate the unallocated section.

On the 54830B, the system is restored to version 3.10, and that copy is version 3.70. On version 3.70, the latest update installs without problems and without the "Agilent LXI" error

This isn't a problem since we install the 5.71 update, correct? The LXI error is somewhat of a pain, but I think it all works out at the end. No sense dealing with registering v 3.70 or maybe it's easy to handle. You've provided some real easy methods to update to XP, but I am happy with the current option.

Also, two questions: the first is regarding the options. Does the cracked license file contain all the options or do more exist? I believe I saw a list of options, but don't remember seeing descriptions or how to install them. How do you install options?

Attached is a picture of my Acquisition Board. As previously mentioned, I did a good amount of work to this because channel 2 and 3 were broken.

[coromonadalix]

And i would have never put a board like this  on a cloth like this ....  man  you are asking for problems

Anti-static procedures .......

[bostonman]

I agree with you. The board was mishandled somewhat often due to having to change so many components and place it under hot air in awkward positions.

Hopefully deviating from this thread didn't cause the topic to change permanently as I'm waiting on a few answers from my previous message.

[ARF]

I sent you a link with image 3.70.
This image can be restored through the Norton Ghost program, which you will find along with the image.
This can be done in many ways, the easiest way is to use Norton x32 for Windows, just connect the SSD to your computer and start Norton.

Before recovery, it is best to completely wipe the SSD drive in order to safely remove Smart Boot Manager. You need any utility that writes data to the disk surface, you need to erase at least 2MB at the beginning of the disk.

Restoring:

Disk -> From image -> select image -> select your SSD -> restore.

Norton will automatically prompt you to use the entire space of your disk, you can agree or specify the size of the partition.

I have not yet solved the problem with the activation call, for now just try to restore this partition on your own.
After the first boot, the system will prompt you to activate - refuse, then install the drivers - agree, after a reboot it should work fine.

You can activate or install a crack on Windows XP yourself along with updates or wait until I finish it.
This partition I have optimized for use with SSD, it has 2MB alignment.

Your board is the first revision, so you can activate up to 8 megapoints of memory.

[coromonadalix]

cough   https://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/Uninstallers/RemoveWGA.shtml

for  xp

But  so many activation keys float on the web,  just a matter to know wich XP  sku you have ...

[ARF]

I made an updated version.
- managed to activate Windows by phone.
- update 5.71 already integrated
- options are already integrated.

try.

If all is well, then I will make a disk version, it will be possible to install using 4 СD disks.

[bostonman]

Oh wow. I will download and try soon.

For the record, I am happy with what I have, but the missing piece (which isn’t a major concern) is the unallocated disk space.

[bostonman]

I forgot how to deal with Ghost.

Do I burn this to a blank CD separately and create it as a bootable or do I boot using something else and then execute Ghost?

[ARF]

Did you read my previous post?

[bostonman]

Oh, the 4 CD version?

[ARF]

I think that now it will be more convenient for you to connect the SSD to a PC with Windows. It's simple and fast, you've done it before.

Read in the message: Reply #273

[bostonman]

For whatever reason, I can't get the laptop to recognize the USB CD/DVD ROM, so I tried burning this to a USB.

Unfortunately I forgot the scope isn't capable of booting off the USB.

Most likely I'll stick with the previous method(s), but think I asked and didn't get an answer. The license file has options, but is that ALL the options or do more exist?

If so, how do I activate them?

[ARF]

Yes, there are only 2 options for recovery, either through a third-party computer or booting from an CD disk on an oscilloscope.
Were you able to restore my last image?

There are other options, but they are useless. The most useful thing there is memory depth, digital signal decoding, jitter.
You can easily add or remove options by editing the license file with notepad.

[bostonman]

The 4CD image?

That's the one I was referring to. I can't burn it to CDs because my laptop isn't recognizing the external CD/DVD ROM, and the scope doesn't boot from the USB.

I may be able to try the method I did before and use a junk hard drive connected to the IDE secondary.

[ARF]

Simply plug an SSD into your PC, launch Norton for Windows, and restore. (the same way like for HDD raw copy tool)

I'll make a disk version a little later. I need to make a bootable CD first.

Bootable HDD with DOS and Norton for DOS are also suitable.

[bostonman]

Sorry for the lack of updates, but I've been extremely busy. I plan to test this last file you provided, hopefully this weekend.


Edit: Does a description exist for the additional features? I know you said the ones already in the license file are the important ones, but I'm curious what all the other features are.

[ARF]

I don't think anyone has made a complete and detailed description and sorted them by type of supported hardware.
However, if you read the names of the options, it is sometimes clear what they are for.

I wanted to ask. Have you desoldered the resistor on your acquisition board yet? I mean have you already unlocked 1GHz BW?

[bostonman]

I have removed that resistor.

[bostonman]

It didn’t work - see attached

[ARF]

If you let him install the drivers and try again after rebooting?
Second screenshot. - you need to install all the drivers. The interesting thing is that my drivers and yours should match (probably). The only difference is in the configuration resistors on the board.

For convenience, you can hold down the "shift" key while loading Windows - This way you disable autoboot in Windows (scope.exe application) and it will be more convenient for you to install drivers.

[bostonman]

I tried rebooting, and I got the same errors. It wants to connect to the Internet to search for drivers.

[bostonman]

I don't mind using the previous method of installing with Paragon, and using the factory partition to reinstall a fresh copy.

The problem between this recent one you made and that: the hard drive will have unallocated (wasted) space. I don't know how to get around this issue.

[ekoloski]

It's just an NTFS or FAT32 partition that would need to be resized, right?

I'm guessing that you're able to boot from a USB stick into a Linux LiveCD environment? If so, resizing the partition with something like gparted is pretty straightforward, as is removing any partitions you don't need.

Something along the lines of this: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/resizing-adding-partitions-with-gparted-live/

[ARF]

Try again to write the image and make the first boot with the "shift" key pressed.
A window will appear with the installation of drivers, click "next, next". Drivers must be built into the system and installed correctly.
If it doesn't, then post it here. Perhaps updating to 5.71 removes unnecessary drivers or something like that.

[bostonman]

Try again to write the image and make the first boot with the "shift" key pressed.

Try which one, the one you made that's a full XP (i.e. four CDs)?

It's just an NTFS or FAT32 partition that would need to be resized, right?

I'm guessing that you're able to boot from a USB stick into a Linux LiveCD environment? If so, resizing the partition with something like gparted is pretty straightforward, as is removing any partitions you don't need.

Maybe this will work, I'll have to try. What I've been getting (and on another laptop) is the unallocated partition (after I duplicate a hard drive onto a larger hard drive) can't be touched. The OS partition can't be expanded and I can't seem to mate the OS partition and the unallocated to make one total hard drive.

[ARF]

 full XP (i.e. four CDs) - yes

Try it, if it does not work, then I will make for you the same installer from the recovery partition that you have already tested on your scope.

[bostonman]

I’ll try this weekend - hopefully

[bostonman]

I tried your suggestion and it didn’t work.

I don’t necessarily need you to make the previous one (that requires Paragon to install) as a Norton installer. The bigger issue is the unused hard drive space. Gparted treats the XP partition as one and the unused 29GB as a separate partition eliminating me from trying to make one big 32GB partition.

So my needs are more about installing XP so it doesn’t just use a few GB and waste the rest of the hard drive.

[ARF]

if I make it as an installer through Norton, then there will be no problem with the partition size. Now you have a partition on the entire disk, right?

[bostonman]

Two partitions. One is about 7GB with XP and the other is about 27GB blank.

The Norton one you made prior allowed the entire 32GB to be seen as one drive, and I think the Paragon one may have, I don’t remember now.

[ARF]

Okay, I'll make for Norton the partition that you restored  (tested) before via Smart Boot Manager. This will be 1 partition that will take up your entire disk. I won't try to embed updates due to possible driver issues.

[bostonman]

But will unused drive space be usable?

In other words, will I have 27GB of free space to use or will it be unusable?

[ARF]

You restored my last image in which the drivers did not work . I'm sure Norton used all your 27GB, you just didn't notice.

[bostonman]

The new one you’ll make will have the factory part too where I can do a fresh install if I want?

[bostonman]

Have you had a chance to work on a new (and hopefully) final one?

Not to be picky, but can it have the factory raw install section? Most likely I think that's how you'll make it since you saw your drivers didn't seem to work on my scope, but thought to ask.

[J-Dub]

I had a go with my 54831M.. here's where I ended up:

- Using my windows pc, Flashed the Paragon archive to a 120GB drive (msata to 2.5 IDE adapter)
- Installed drive in the scope & Booted... scope app wont load, errors, a bad time.
- rebooted to recovery [CTRL] & reflashed for clean install
- rebooted & scope app loaded successfully, working.
- ran 5.71 installer (took 3 attempts & reboots to finally get it to complete successfully)
- Once installed and rebooted, copied the patched scope app and license. 
- scope app launches with all options enabled! nice!

Now have a working scope in winXP!   it's possible

[croma641]

Very good, but this works unfortunately only with the 2nd revision of the PCI interface card with the scope assembly.

[bostonman]

I had a go with my 54831M.. here's where I ended up:

- Using my windows pc, Flashed the Paragon archive to a 120GB drive (msata to 2.5 IDE adapter)
- Installed drive in the scope & Booted... scope app wont load, errors, a bad time.
- rebooted to recovery [CTRL] & reflashed for clean install
- rebooted & scope app loaded successfully, working.
- ran 5.71 installer (took 3 attempts & reboots to finally get it to complete successfully)
- Once installed and rebooted, copied the patched scope app and license.
- scope app launches with all options enabled! nice!

Now have a working scope in winXP!   it's possible

Yes, this method does work. I think the problem is that it doesn't show the whole 120GB. I don't remember as I've done quite a few methods of installing at this point, but I thought the Paragon method was good too.

[J-Dub]

You can reclaim the extra free space by booting with a gParted CD & moving the 2nd partition (the recovery) to the end of the disk, then expanding the first partition with the rest of the drives space.

[bostonman]

Are you sure?

I've tinkered with two drives (a laptop and this scope drive) and couldn't see any options to move the partitions. They were treated as two separate ones.

[ARF]

If you are a little versed in operating systems, then there is no problem to do everything yourself. I promise I'll make you a new image that will expand to full disk this weekend.

[ARF]

So, I sent you the new link.
It's the image for Norton Ghost and it's based on the recovery partition 3.10 which you have already tested and it worked correctly for you.
Of course, you will have to install update 5.71 and options yourself, as you did before.
To write the image, it is most convenient to use the GHO32.EXE utility for Windows (Win 7, 8, 10 are supported), but I think you already know.
I hope this image suits you perfectly.

[bostonman]

Doesn’t seem to work. It’s showing I need to register windows within three-days.

I tried holding CTRL to do a factory install, but they didn’t work.

[ARF]

CTRL - won't work, it's a clean XP partition, no recovery partition. This is exactly the partition you used to restore through CTRL before.
Are the drivers installed correctly? Does the oscilloscope application start?

[bostonman]

Yes, the drivers seemed to work and the scope loads, but the registration comes up.

I think a previous message stated I can register it easy enough, but I’m thinking in the future I may run into issues if I need to reinstall

[ARF]

You understand that this is exactly the same partition that you restored earlier from the factory backup. At that time, you had no problems with activation. The only difference is that this time you increased the size of the partition to the size of the disk. So Windows thinks that the hardware has changed and activation is required. You can either activate by phone and save the activation code. In the future, it should come up if nothing changes in the hardware equipment. The second option is to keep the size of the partition, then most likely activation is not required. I don't see any problem activating Windows over the phone or using a crack from the internet.

[coromonadalix]

you have tons of serials for old windows sku  floating around ....

[bostonman]

Oh okay, I thought obtaining a number would be more involved.

In the future, it should come up if nothing changes in the hardware equipment

I'm thinking more that I keep your GHO file, and, in the future, I need to reinstall it, then I'll need the number again. I thought the number may be unique and I wouldn't be able to get another one in the future.

Maybe I call to register, but also obtain a list of numbers from online to have options in the future.

[bostonman]

Registering XP was easier than I thought. I haven't installed 5.71 yet, but obviously I know how to from previous installs.

For a test run, I installed PDF Creator too so I can print directly to PDFs (and then save them to a thumb drive). This XP copy seems excellent, and, once I install 5.71 (along with the license file), I should be set.

Two questions:

The license file you provided previously, does that contain all the more important features or did you create a better license file?

My other is regarding registering XP. Should in the future Microsoft not offer registering XP, I'll be stuck should I need to reinstall the OS. The number that's generated to register, will that change in the future meaning, is the registration number I got now good for future needs including whether I change any hardware?

I'm curious how I should handle preserving this OS for future needs.


Thanks for all the help!

[coromonadalix]

I'm surprised msoft is still answering activations for xp  since its long dead if its the case


You need to remember the xp version,   Ie: Pro  Family, Oem or Retail  etc ...     and have the correct serial for it,  even upon a reinstallation  you will be able to use the same serial. 

And i would say  do not connect your scope on a network going to the web, you could have some surprises

Archive.org   has some nice iso's   for this, even some with sp3 ....

[ARF]

The license file is a text file that you can edit with any text editor. Add or remove the required option. You can close the oscilloscope application, edit the license file, start the application again and see how the option works. You do not need to reboot the oscilloscope. I added all the basic general purpose options. There are some special options, for example for power probes, but for that you need these probes.

If you do not change the equipment, then the activation code will work the next time you install the system.

If you want, after installing all the options and everything else, you can make your image with Norton Ghost, so that the next time you restore the system, you will automatically get a registered system and with the correct settings.

Don't worry about your internet connection. Everything is legal. The system has a key from my oscilloscope.

[bostonman]

The license file is a text file that you can edit with any text editor. Add or remove the required option. You can close the oscilloscope application, edit the license file, start the application again and see how the option works. You do not need to reboot the oscilloscope. I added all the basic general purpose options. There are some special options, for example for power probes, but for that you need these probes.

This was my question. Is there a set of options you think are more valuable to have installed than others? I'm not sure if you have more than one license file (I've lost track of all the files) and wanted to suggested which options. Obviously I can add them as I want (I already know it's a text file that I can edit).

If you do not change the equipment, then the activation code will work the next time you install the system.

This is my concern. In the future I may need a new hard drive due to this one crashing, or something else. Most likely a new larger hard drive will cause XP to want me to register (you stated that may have the case in this situation). I can reinstall your Ghost file, but that would be set to default requiring me to activate XP again. As you suggested, I can make a Ghost file with my hard drive, but, if I install a new hard drive, it may require me to register again because it will see a new/larger hard drive as a hardware change.

If in a few years Microsoft stops providing activation licenses, and the scope generates a number that the activation license is dependent on, then I may never be able to activate XP. So I'm just trying to protect myself for the future.

[bostonman]

Today I went through all the images you've provided.

The one you sent on March 6 is good. It shows 2.7GB used and 4.6GB free (but wastes the rest of the 32GB hard drive). The best one is the last one you sent and the others aren't very useful.

From what I can tell, I'm on track to completing the XP upgrade and can be done with working on this scope (once I calibrate it and run a self test). As of now, I have your last image on two 32GB drives and just need to install v5.71 along with a PDF creator. In end, I should have two drives; one installed, and a "mirror" that can be used as a replacement should the first one crash.

It seems that reinstalling the image results in XP generating the same product code. You mentioned that codes exist online to register XP, but it seems a program needs to be used that takes the code XP generates and creates the key code to register XP.

I'd like the ability to generate codes in the future should Microsoft stop providing codes and a chance exists I need a different one.

Do you know where to find such a program?

Also, have you looked into which file(s) are created/updated when a self test and calibration are performed? When I used Win98, I found two text files that got updated and saved them should a calibration issue exist in the future. After doing a self test and calibration, I searched the whole hard drive, and discovered only two text files changed time/date and saved them.

I'm curious if you've done a similar search to find out which ones are updated/saved.

[bostonman]

I performed a calibration today and went to look for the file(s). I searched the entire hard drive and couldn’t find a file time stamped that matched when I did the calibration.

Do you know where that file is so I can save it should I ever need it?

[bostonman]

I did two more calibrations, searched for a file that had a new time stamp, and couldn’t find one.

I can’t figure out where the cal data is stored. Also, which file keeps the last setup so when the scope boots, it goes back to the previous setup (I’m assuming this is where the cal data is stored and why I’m asking).

[Jwalling]

I did two more calibrations, searched for a file that had a new time stamp, and couldn’t find one.

I can’t figure out where the cal data is stored. Also, which file keeps the last setup so when the scope boots, it goes back to the previous setup (I’m assuming this is where the cal data is stored and why I’m asking).

Set Windows explorer to show hidden and system files. IIRC it's in c:\scope\cal

[ARF]

I have not studied this issue in detail, but as far as I remember, the calibration files and folder have "hidden" attributes. Did you check the "show hidden files" box in explorer?

I also do not quite understand why you need it, I already mentioned that it is better to make an entire image of the configured system. In this case, the calibration settings, options, any installed software will be saved.

[bostonman]

I already unchecked the hide system files and whichever else in Explorer, and still no luck.

As for wanting the calibration data. When I got this scope, channels 2 and 3 had blown 50ohm inputs. Thinking this wasn't an issue, I noticed the 'zero' points were off and decided to perform a calibration.

To my surprise, the scope would abort calibration leaving all four channels to remain uncalibrated. The reason I want the calibration data: should a channel ever blow again, and something happens where I lost a backup image and need to install from scratch, I can copy the calibration file(s) in hopes the scope will remain in a somewhat better state than being completely uncalibrated.

[bostonman]

Just an update.

I found the calibration and self test files. I may have misread about unchecking 'hide system files', however, I was unchecking it in Windows Explorer and think I needed to do it in the search field.

In any case, the scope is fully functional, but the ribbon cable was intermittent, so I bought a replacement and just got it today.

The scope fully loads, has all the options from the license file, it passed calibration and self tests, PDF writer installed, and will soon be fully assembled.

Also, I have a backup hard drive that has the identical setup on it should the primary fail; along with keeping the image files from here.

Moving forward, the only concern (as I've expressed) is whether I may need to re-register XP and Microsoft doesn't support it anymore. I'm a bit concerned over trying to locate a key generator (?) online as I may catch a virus. Does anyone have access to such a key generator or whatever to re-register windows?

[coromonadalix]

what is your windows version  pro vlk oem family ??  do you have a source of your cd ??



you had this utility  removewga 1.2   who get rid  of the activation, it;s a classic one i used many times

and be sure your scope doesn't go to the web,  xp is depreciated an absolutely not safe


as i mentioned     xp keys can be found on the web,  you need the right windows key for you xp version,  no need of keygens

[ARF]

The Key from an Agilent scope. So, I guess it's OEM.

[coromonadalix]

And normally you have the xp sticker on the equipment  loll   but it depends of the version you installed,  Sp2 Sp3 

https://github.com/fuwn/xp
https://gist.github.com/denizssch/72ec2aa1c5d0a84ffb57076f7dbf30d6

with some google search i can find tons of serials   

[ARF]

He already has entered key. It's from my scope. We are discussing ACTIVATION key, not register key.
However, the "WPA Kill" utility will suffice to solve this problem in the future.

[bostonman]

Where do I find WPA Kill?

What I don't get about having the activation key is that Windows generates a register key (?). Is the activation key that is given by Microsoft derived from the register key?

If so, I don't understand how just any activation key would work (I know this isn't a XP thread discussion, but it would help close this should anyone else download the XP image and need to register it).

[coromonadalix]

you need to read about XP activations scheme  .........   inputting the right XP sku serial  will activate windows

But  if you go on the web,  it will try to connect to Msoft servers asking a genuine activation against your serial number, this is what we call  WGA  windows genuine activation
If the serial number was used too often  you'll get an non genuine windows popup

Removewga   kill this process, it does not generate serials,   you still need a serial number according the XP sku IE: Pro, OEM, Family, VLK    Sp2 Sp3 etc ...   

There is a bios trick to automatically activate window XP Win 7 Win 8 ...   SLIC    but i wont venture there

i put a zip file earlier in my answer


its called  removewga   


Normally you install a windows version according to the serial sticker found on your equipment, if it say OEM, you need to have an XP OEM vesrion install disk

You have some google infos how to convert XP editions to suit your needs

[bostonman]

its called  removewga

I tried double clicking this on a junk laptop running XP. I got a pop up that read: Microsoft WGA Notification Tool is not currently active on your system.

Does this mean it has removed the WGA? Anyway to reverse it since I didn't think a simple click would execute it without warning?

If I understood your explanation correctly, any serial number will work providing XP isn't connected to the Internet (I don't plan to ever connect this oscilloscope to the Internet anyway).


On a side note, these two questions are for ARF.

An option exists in the drop down menu to install licenses or something like that. Can I install options here instead of editing the text file (this question isn't really that important since I don't believe I'll be installing any additional stuff).

My other question is regarding the mouse arrow. When the scope boots, the mouse arrow is in the middle of the screen forcing me to have a mouse (wireless in this case) available so I can move the pointer away. Any boxes or options in the scope to make the pointer vanish like the Win98 did? Well, I don't believe it vanished, but it forced the pointer to remain in the top right.

[coromonadalix]

YOU did not read carefully,  you have understanding issues ...   you need the correct serial number to activate Windows XP

You have different editions of windows ... you need to match it against your OEM sticker on the back panel when you have one

If WGA is not active on you XP   Fine it's perfect, do not let it go to the web  that's all

Upgrade to sp3  if the installed  XP is not Sp3  .... thats all   have fun with your scope


and some questions directed to ARF

The mouse pointer on some touch screen, is or are seen as an HID device or else, simply put, an interface   .. the pointer is sometimes put at the center while windows is booting, you see the mouse pointer flickering  and it could be seen as a good sign that it works ...

It does that on a TEK scope i have, i absolutely dont care,  but it tells you windows is getting ready to operate  .....

[bostonman]

I don't believe I have understanding issues. It's a matter of some confusion because I can't (or don't want to) install SP2 or 3 on the system, nor does my OEM sticker have any meaning since it's for Win98 and this system is XP (from a CD that I don't have).

I simply asked what that program did when I double clicked it because it showed: Microsoft WGA Notification Tool is not currently active on your system.

As for the mouse pointer, on Win98, the mouse was locked in the corner. With this, the mouse is blocking the screen. Should I want to take a quick measurement, I need to get a mouse, move the pointer, etc.... and was wondering if I overlooked an area where it would allow me to lock the pointer somewhere to avoid the above steps.

[coromonadalix]

Sp2 and Sp3 pack resolved some OS and driver issues,  i would install it right away, that's your choice

Wga Remover will do nothing, if it is not running inside XP

For the mouse pointer check in the mouse settings properties if anything can help

This ?

http://www.snakebytestudios.com/projects/apps/cursor-lock/

[bostonman]

So where does it need to be placed to be running inside XP?

[coromonadalix]

well my bad   if wga services is not running in XP    wga remover will do nothing

[bostonman]

Oh, so the message I got meant it didn’t install anything?

[bostonman]

well my bad   if wga services is not running in XP    wga remover will do nothing

I'm still confused (and have read about XP activation schemes). I don't plan to or have a need to ever connect my scope to the Internet. If sometime down the road I reinstall WinXP, my understanding is the scope generates a register key based on the properties of the "computer" (i.e. the hardware, RAM, hard drive, etc...).

Currently it generates the same register key from the XP image and I have the activation key (from MS) to legally register XP, however, let's assume down the road the register key changes for whatever reason. I can't use just any activation key, or can I?

I downloaded a list of keys (from a posting in this thread that led me to Github), but, since the scope will not be connected to the Internet, does this mean any activation key will work from that list?

Also, if I need to resort to WGA Remover, where do I place the file? As I mentioned, I clicked on it using a legit XP machine (i.e. registered) and it displayed: Microsoft WGA Notification Tool is not currently active on your system

[coromonadalix]

No   Xp  did not use the hardware id's     thats why i told you about your understanding problems  and they way you say things  ... my side too  since im native french

you put a serial number and that's it,  no problemo

on some updates Msfoft played some tricks and implemented the Wga feature and cross check on Msoft servers

because piracy got higher / increased, and they implemented hardware id's later in other windows

for the last time, if the serial number match   the Xp version you have installed, you wont get problems, no internet  means safety and no updates who could add problems

and finally  if your scope works     good for you,  make an hdd clone / backup as safety and have fun 

[gslick]

Moving forward, the only concern (as I've expressed) is whether I may need to re-register XP and Microsoft doesn't support it anymore. I'm a bit concerned over trying to locate a key generator (?) online as I may catch a virus. Does anyone have access to such a key generator or whatever to re-register windows?

Article posted on Ars Technica today, 5/26/2023:

Green hills forever: Windows XP activation algorithm cracked after 21 years
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/05/a-decade-after-it-mattered-windows-xps-activation-algorithm-is-cracked/

Windows XP Activation: GAME OVER
https://tinyapps.org/blog/202304230700_xp_wpa.html

Windows XP web activation is finally dead…
https://old.reddit.com/r/windowsxp/comments/wwjy5j/windows_xp_web_activation_is_finally_dead/

Scroll down to a Google Drive link to xp_activate32.7z

Extract xp_activate32.exe
18432 bytes with a SHA-256 hash of 5a4bcac5a50eb5113dd6a2f88c35ebdb709c4df8a792c71ad03ea347afaced52

I haven't tried running xp_activate32.exe myself on a Windows XP system yet.

[coromonadalix]

there was some dll hacks too,  you could enter an universal serial number  ...

[bostonman]

Extract xp_activate32.exe
18432 bytes with a SHA-256 hash of 5a4bcac5a50eb5113dd6a2f88c35ebdb709c4df8a792c71ad03ea347afaced52

I tried this on an old XP laptop using the installation ID the scope provided when I registered that version of XP. It provided a confirmation ID, however, it was different than the one provided by Microsoft (which allowed XP on the scope to register legally).

[ARF]

Of course, it will be different due to other hardware set in the laptop. Everything is correct.

[bostonman]

This is what I assumed, but the number I entered to generate the confirmation ID was already generated by the scope based on the hardware. When I gave this number to Microsoft, they gave me the activation ID to register XP based on the confirmation ID.

Using that same confirmation ID in this program should have resulted in the same number Microsoft provided because neither one would know what the hardware is except based on the confirmation ID already generated.

[coromonadalix]

a confirmation id is not at the same level than HW ID   but it was a beginning  ....  but now   we have some tools   loll

[bostonman]

Not sure I understand or whether that helped.

If a computer generates a confirmation ID based on whichever methods including hardware, say the number is 12345 to make it simple.

When I call Microsoft, they don't know anything about my computer other than the number is 12345 and they need to provide a activation code based on this number.

If their activation code is 6789, then this program should also provide the same number. At least this is how I am thinking about it.

[coromonadalix]

anything else beyond that is indeed  un-helpful, we are drifting   .......

Now the scope works and Xp is working  ... the thread title seems fullfilled   ... 

[bostonman]

What about someone in the future who installs the image onto their scope and Microsoft is no longer supporting XP activation?

[bostonman]

Of course, it will be different due to other hardware set in the laptop. Everything is correct.

Just an FYI, I tried running the activation generator on another XP system, and, as expected, got the same number.

[SilverSolder]

What about someone in the future who installs the image onto their scope and Microsoft is no longer supporting XP activation?

There are workarounds to activating old software like XP.

[bostonman]

Yes... as it's been discussed.

I'm just trying to secure an understanding of making sure if/when Microsoft stops supporting XP registration and the possibility of me or anyone else needing to register XP for their scope, can do so.

So far I have the activation generator that so far has generated a different code than what my scope uses and a somewhat basic understanding that not connecting the scope to the Internet will allow me to use codes from online (but I haven't confirmed which methods work because it would require I reinstall XP on my scope from scratch which I'm not about to do).

[bostonman]

Just out of curiosity, does CTRL P work for you (to print the scope screen)?

It's listed in the drop down menu, however, for me, it doesn't work. No big deal as a simple mouse click isn't that troublesome, but odd it's listed in the drop down and doesn't work.

[Leho1986]

Love this type of threads. I too often get ancient stuff and go great lengths to modernize it (my most recent one was upgrading the insides of TLA704 to make it TLA715).

I think the biggest issue is this silly VGA overlay that requires ancient CT65550 graphic card tightly coupled to the OS, drivers and the scope app.

I wonder why Agilent designed this the way it is. I could see another possibility - to treat oscilloscope graticules / intensity grading output similarly to a camera video stream. Back in the days of these scopes it would be, for example, Bt848 PCI video grabber/tuner. Grabs a frame and sends over PCI to the app and then the app can display that onto Win32/DirectX/OpenGL surface. It has small overhead of buffer copies, but it is much simpler and the modernization with a PCIe to PCI adapter should be possible.

The MSO8104A glitch sounds promising, maybe it is worth pursuing further. I could imagine (just guessing, I don't have the scope) that providing a phony DLL (that the scope app tries to use) instead of the real driver might stop the crashes.
Hello.  i have 1 pc 54831d (main board intel 815) broken hdd. can you send me ghost file or driver and all necessary for me to reinstall new win xp os. thank you very much  much!

[Leho1986]

Folks

I've spent the past few weeks on and off investigating getting my old PC-based 54831D scope modernised to a Skylake processor, and although it's not yet a completed project, I thought I'd put some notes down as I've seen a handful of posts on the subject of updating these scopes. The aim is to have a reasonably current OS, and improve the scope's general performance, particularly when dealing with large memory acquisitions and doing decodes, which is my typical use case for this instrument. If there are any corrections or other constructive comments please feel free to add them.

Why? To be completely honest I've burned far too much time and resources on this project, I thought it'd be half a day or so. I'll now never see the RoI, but I've been like a dog with a bone on it, and I don't really need to do it: for day to day use there are better instruments at my disposal for most things, but occasionally the 54831D still earns its place on the bench. So it's because you can, not because you need to do it, a bit like climbing Everest.

If you're considering typing a response along the lines of "why would you do that?" I have the afore quoted pre-baked answers to save your typing effort 

Overview

Here is the Agilent 5483xx family:

Model   Bandwidth   Channels
54830D   600MHz   2+16
54831D   600MHz   4+16
54832D   1GHz      4+16
54833D   1GHz      2+16
54830B   600MHz   2
54831B   600MHz   4
54832B   1GHz      4
54833A   1GHz      2

These are all 4GSa/s scopes, which drops to 2GSa/s when using channels sharing the same ADC. For example in 4 channel scopes, using ch 1+2 or 3+4 will result in 2GSa/s maximum sampling rate on each channel, but using ch 1+3, 2+4, 2+3 or 2+4 gives you 4GSa/s on each channel. They max out at 128Mpts memory.

You can't update a 2ch scope to a 4ch scope or a DSO to and MSO as there are required front panel features that will be missing (sounds obvious, but to avoid any doubt I mention it here).

It's a Windows XP Pro PC-based scope from about 2002 or so, and ran until about 2005. It's woefully underpowered nowadays in terms of computing power, using an old 1GHz P3 with 512MB RAM and a PCI (not PCIe) motherboard, but the acquisition electronics remain solid, although devotees of high update rates and intensity graded displays will be largely disappointed. To display the waveforms quickly enough on this old hardware it uses the concept of VGA overlay, which hands over a rectangular section of the screen to hardware external to the graphics card. There were a number of similar scopes and even LAs from the era, and some of the really early ones were Windows 98 based with even less RAM.

The unit I have was based on the "latest" Motorola VP22 motherboard. This maxes out with the 1GHz P3 and 512MB RAM as far as I've been able to fathom in terms of my own testing and what I could find out from Googling.

The UI is limited on the front panel. You frequently need to use the Windows UI to access stuff, but not rarely the keyboard, so I keep a wireless USB mouse under the desk on an under-desk keyboard slide to do this: that way it doesn't take up bench space, and you don't even need to slide out the keyboard, you just operate it from under the desk.

First, the easy upgrades

Update to SSD, either PATA (if you can find one) or SATA with a SATA/PATA adapter (there are no SATA ports on the motherboard). Some really new SATA drives I couldn't get to boot. If you use a SATA/PATA adapter, keep in mind that the internal CD-ROM is configured as an IDE slave. While there are concerns about XP and TRIM, I've had no problems and am still using the same SSD from a couple of years ago without any problems.

The 600MHz scopes can be updated to 1GHz by removing a resistor on the acquisition board. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/54831b-upgrade-to-54832b-possible/

There are a few other easy upgrades knocking around too if you do a bit of judicious Googling.

Tools of the trade

To backup, move and resize the disk I used Acronis True Image 2013 and 2016. If you choose to do the imaging on the scope itself, then be aware that the 640x480 screen becomes a limitation, there is a fix https://kb.acronis.com/content/3836 In general though, you'll find it quicker to backup and restore images using a more modern PC booted with Acronis TI with assorted USB 3.0 to SATA/PATA adapters if you have them available. I am sure there are other methods, this is what I used.

I also found I had to fix the restored disk's MBR a few times after imaging, for that I used Paragon Disk Manager. It appears that the Smart Boot Manager deployed with a virgin scope doesn't much like resizing partitions, and I don't know the password that Agilent used on it to configure it the password is "agilent" (lower case, no quotes), so I just blew away the MBR. The problem is then that if you need to get into the recovery partition, you have some work to do, but then you did keep the original disk, right? 

USB 2.0 PCI adapter. The VP22 Motherboard only supports USB 1.0 onboard. I used a SATA/USB 2.0 combo board that I had, but I couldn't boot a SATA drive from it on this board although the card's ROM was recognised at POST. I also tried a USB 3.0 PCI card (rare on PCI!) but there is limited point to this as the motherboard's maximum PCI bus is barely over 1Gbps. Also consider that the PCI bus is a shared resource, and some of this will be demanded by the scope app, so take care on what you place on this bus.

PCIe bootable SATA/PATA card - handy because Skylake motherboards only rarely support IDE booting.

SATA CD/DVD drive - Skylake only supports USB 3.0 out of the box, so your OS needs the drivers out of the box, default USB 2.0 drivers won't work on Skylake. You can slipstream them but I've had very limited success with this (on an X99 board with an i7-6800K!).

PCI to PCIe and PCIe to PCI riser adapters.

Upgrading the OS

Once, maybe 25-30 years ago, I considered that knew my way around a motherboard and PCs in general pretty well. Those were in the days when frankly there wasn't really much to know, arm yourself with a screwdriver and Bob's your uncle. As time has gone on, PC architecture has become layer upon layer of functionality, with some things being completely disposed of and becoming obsolete, while others have become so ingrained it's nigh on impossible to remove them, like a PS/2 port for example, essential if you can't even get a USB stack up, let alone bluetooth of course.

So much of this is me getting up to speed with today's PC tech, although I've been doing it on and off pretty much since the mid 80s when the PC was born.

I tried doing fresh installs of OS (Windows Vista and Windows 7), and although the OS installs worked, I couldn't get the scope app to work afterwards. There's some Sentinel service running, and I don't know how much that has to do with it, but it's generally for copy protection of one sort or another. There are also some other bits and pieces you need to find such as drivers, the IO libraries and the app itself.

So I chose to do in-place upgrades. To upgrade in place from XP to Windows 7 you need to do this via Vista. The only in-place upgrade sequence from XP Pro is XP Pro -> Vista Ultimate -> Windows 7 Ultimate. You can't go straight from XP Pro to W7.

I could get the existing OS to run on a Skylake H110 motherboard by using Acronis Universal Restore to add the XP SATA drivers to the build (driver here: http://www.win-raid.com/t11f23-Modded-Intel-AHCI-and-RAID-Drivers-digitally-signed.html using the 32 bit 11.2 version which covers Skylake). Often I also needed to do an XP repair (with media slipstreamed with the aforementioned drivers using nLite) to fix ACPI BSODs, and pressing F5 when the F6 prompt is offered, selecting the Pentium 4 ACPI later on. I sometimes found that the slipstreamed restored image needed activating, which is irritating to say the least as there's no network set up so it's a manual telephone process. To add insult to injury, the activation process itself is broken, and you need to do a manual install of IE8 in safe mode to work around it (go figure).

Unless you're a current hardcore PC engineer who makes slipstreamed OS bootable USB thumb drives in their sleep, I recommend installing from CD/DVD rather than trying to make up bootable USB drives which add to the general confusion although I accept in the longer term they'd be more convenient. For bootable USB drives for things like Paragon Disk Manager and Acronis, I used SanDisk Extreme USB 3.0 thumb drives as they're super fast.

Upgrading from XP to Vista can be done on the scope's VP22 board, and this works although of course it's horrendously slow. One thing to note is that it won't upgrade complaining about .NET needing to be uninstalled but there no officially documented way seemed to succeed (way to go M$). In the end I simply renamed the C:\Windows\System32\WindowsPowerShell directory and re-ran the upgrade. The scope app itself is fine when running on the VP22 board under Vista. Upgrading to Window 7 though failed and rolled back each time I tried it on the board.

I had no luck doing an in-place Vista upgrade on a ported XP image on a Skylake board, it failed each time. Instead I restored the working VP22 Vista image and retrofitted the Skylake AHCI drivers using Acronis Universal Restore. I could then do a Windows 7 upgrade on the Skylake board.

I have had success with running the scope fully up to Vista on the VP22 board, and also a ported XP on a Skylake board. The ported XP suffered because it  lacked working drivers for things like USB (at least I've not been able to get them to work yet), and the ACPI mismatch means it won't properly turn off or reboot under software control.

Practical logistical problems

The IO shield on these scopes is milled or punched out of the chassis, it's not replaceable. So the choices are (a) find a compatible board [I failed], (b) hack a hole for an IO shield or (c) use assorted risers. If you're brave, then sure, go for (b). Considering this scope still has substantial resale value in its factory state, I preferred option (c). More on this later, I am sure.

I've tried other options such as mini ITX and DTX boards with PCIe to multiple PCI daughter boards in place of where the mATX board would present its cards. This hasn't been too successful, the daughter boards tended not to work or only worked very intermittently. I strongly suspect this is a power related problem, although they are supplied with their own molex or SATA power connector. At first the USB 3.0 male-male cables used to sent the PCIe data were the suspects, but now I'm not so sure.

The preferred method now is to go back to using individual PCI to PCIe adapter risers off the mATX board and fabricate a frame internally.

Drivers...

Regarding drivers, as well as the Agilent drivers, there are also the drivers for the CT65550 graphics card pair. There's only one PCI acquisition/GPIB interface board, but it requires about eight drivers. Most of the Agilent drivers are not properly exposed as the .inf files are missing from the deployed build. They can, however, be found on the scope's RECOVERY partition inside a ghost image. I opened this up inside an old VM with Ghost 9.0 installed and managed to find a bunch of .infs for all the devices. Here are the .infs & .sys I found with relevance:

A0014602.inf
Adobe.inf
Adobe.sys
agave.inf
agave.sys
agbridge.sys
agt357.inf
agt82341.sys
agt82350.sys
agt82357.sys
agtgpib.inf
faroacq.inf
Faroacq.sys
mesa.inf
Mesa.sys
Phramacq.inf
phramacq.sys
tstone.inf
tstone.sys
Zeum.inf
Zeum.sys

I located all of these and placed them in a single directory to ease later installation from the Device Manager applet.

The CT65550 graphics card driver is in c:\WinXPFiles\CT65550. I am still having trouble getting this to install properly and consistently on newer operating systems, it seems quite flakey when you override the default VGA driver.

Once you have all the above installed, you need to run the postsysprep.bat batch file in the C:\PciFilter directory. Hopefully when you reboot, all will work!

Interesting...

More recently, a couple of days ago I went full throttle and installed an in-place Windows 7 on a Skylake motherboard on top of a Vista that was suffering slow screen updating in the scope app, with maybe one screen graticule update per second or so. Of interest was that the updated screen graticule looked like it had intensity grading, something I've never seen on this scope (other than with the limited very slow persistence-based blue trace Megazoom option).

At this point I thought I'd take a punt and remove the CT65550 cards, and see what the on board Intel 530 graphics did with an external monitor, wondering how (or if) this works with the same software in later scopes like the 8000 series which don't use the VGA overlay technique, assuming that this was what was happening. Well, it seemed at first to work really well, screen updates were at least as good as before and there was definitely intensity grading now. I could also increase the resolution, with 1024x768 being the maximum that the application would show.

Then I took a look at what the scope thought it was with the Help->About. It seemed it now though it was an MSO8104A!

All this was short-lived though, because I tried the scope on equivalent time rather than real time using the built in calibrator, and the graticule was just gobbledegook. The app crashed soon afterwards too, so I strongly suspect in its attempt to be something it isn't it broke something. Reinstalling the old VP22 board in its virgin state restored everything to normality.

So the effort now is to try to get it back to thinking the Windows 7/Skylake combo is a 54831D/54832D with the CT65550 with the integrated flat panel.

Results so far

Running the ported XP image on a $60 Skylake micro ATX H110 board with the three PCI cards on individual PCIe->PCI risers, performed extraordinarily well with a G4500T 2C2T Pentium 3.0GHz/3MB cache 35W processor, however those risers mean that the boards won't fit upright in the chassis. For a short time I also tried a 2C2T G3900 Celeron 2.8GHz/2MB cache 51W processor and a 2C4T i3-6320 3.9GHz/4GB cache 51W processor. Boot times were pretty impressive, under 20s to get the scope screen up in the case of the i3, and not much further behind with the other two processors. This being a single-threaded app, the application start up times all very closely reflected the processor speed. The first time I started the scope app I assumed something must have failed because it came up so quickly!

There is a limit to the processor you can put in this scope without an additional power supply, this is why I went for the G4500T 35W processor which seemed a reasonable selection based on price and single thread performance for a 35W processor.

Tips for buying 5483xx scopes (for later further expansion I am sure)

• Make sure it has the VP22 motherboard, with Windows XP installed.
• Probes, in particular the digital probes for the MSO, are fairly rare eBay finds: they're not the same as those used on other lower end Agilent/Keysight MSOs.

Hello.  i have 1 pc 54831d (main board intel 815) broken hdd. can you send me ghost file or driver and all necessary for me to reinstall new win xp os. thank you very much  much!

[Azusa]

Today I try the "Howardlong" approach, I found that does not require the use of original motherboard and PCI interface card, can also get a "MSO8102A", although this type of Anilent has never been sold too.
I was on a 54833D for this experiment, the machine's hardware configuration for GA-P43-ES3G/E8500/4GB/INTEL 710 100GB/nVIDIA FX1800. After pulling out the original 65550 graphics card boot, the program can run normally (starting speed is much slower than the original), and automatically into the XGA resolution display.
I do not have a waveform update rate test (because I did not get the manual test), just a visual comparison with another 54833B, it is clear that "MSO8102A" is much higher. I hope Howardlong can share the test program, let me check the different video card waveform update rate.
Finally, this machine is refitted, lost the original deep storage options, but also because the motherboard replacement, the serial number has become garbled. Do not know who can share the deep crack type storage options way? Thank you in advance!

How did you make it MSO8102A？Which version did you use?I tried remove the 65550 card on my 54833 and it became no model.The version of i used is 5.71.

[Leho1986]

Hi everybody.  my hdd is broken . i need a ghost file or driver for main board 815 win xp sp3(54831d) . thank you very much !

[Shef]

good day friends! I bought an oscilloscope 54832b and installed new hardware in it, installed a display (800*600 precision). lga1155 B75M-GL motherboard, 4 GB memory and 128 GB ssd! installed everything, launched it - did a clean installation of Win xp 32, there were problems with installing the drivers, I had to pull the drivers out of the old children's disk, now everything is installed in hardware. But now there is a gap in the software, for some reason it does not launch infinion Agilent (it says that there is no file mclmcrt71.dll ). please tell me what am I doing wrong?

[Shef]

доброго времени суток друзья! я купил осциллограф 54832b и устануоил в него новое железо, посенял дислей (800*600 точнк). материнская плата lga1155 B75M-GL, память 4 Гб и ssd 128 Гб! все установил запустил - поставил чистую установку Win xp 32, были проблемы с установкой драйверов, пришлось вытащить драйвера из старого детского диска, теперь аппаратно все установлено Но пробела теперь в программной части, почему то не запускает infinion Agilent (пишет что нет файла mclmcrt71.dll). подскажите пожалуйста что я делаю не так ?

[ARF]

You are nakolhozil chtoto, a sovet sprashivaech u nas?
Ischi etot file na starom diske e kopiruy na noviy v System32. Understand?

[Shef]

collective farm is when everything is wired and nothing works! but there’s a problem with the software, so I’m trying to ask advice from gurus who have already redesigned it!

[Shef]

yes, I was looking for this file on the old disk, but strangely enough it’s not there

[Shef]

here are additional photos of what's inside

[Shef]

let's get everything in order! My channel on YouTube - https://youtu.be/uFP-nsLWnKs?si=vRIyC_RXH3WsaoGu thank you very much for your kind words! 1) I saw that the guys were reworking and installing other displays (1024*800), this seems to be no problem (I’ll send a photo a little later). 2. The power supply of the processor is connected to the 12 V bus, the voltage is still normal! There are no problems here, if something changes under load then an additional power supply will be installed. Now I can’t figure out the software....(

[Shef]

not quite so, the standard power supply for the processor is taken from there, where the power of the processor is 35 W! If you do not exceed the declared TDP, then everything will be fine, but if the consumption is higher, of course you will have to install an additional power supply! So far everything is working fine for me, but this is without downloading the program!

[ARF]

The internal power supply has:
+12V 5A
-12V 5A
+5V 35A
2x 3.3V 35A

VP22 or M815 MB don't use +12V for power consuming operations, they are using +5V and +3.3V.

Is still kolhoz.

[Shef]

In order not to unite, you need to measure the consumption of the ACQ board! power supply unit 12*5=60W! This is enough to check, when it works we’ll think about whether it’s worth fixing or not! I don't see a problem yet. I need to figure out the software!!! you don’t have an image for win xp32 on a board with lga1155???

[Bud]

The scope datasheet says the OS is Windows XP Pro. Make sure you install the correct Windows version.

[ARF]

It seems like, it should work without the stock videocard.
Write to this guy and ask about win7/win10 image https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=486132

[coromonadalix]

@  ARF  its an english forum  stay in english please

rectify your previous threads pls

[Shef]

yes yes of course Windows Xp 32  professional

[ARF]

OK,  if you switch SATA I/Os  to the legacy mode, then you can use the original Agilent image with Windows XP. Maybe you should start from this point?

[Bud]

A quick search suggests this is a Matlab compiler runtime library and you can get it from a specific version of Matlab, check this link:
https://comp.soft-sys.matlab.narkive.com/OMMJvhdj/mclmcrrtxx-lib

[Shef]

here is the motherboard vp 22

[Shef]

here is the motherboard

[Shef]

I tried to run the old hard disk image on the new hardware, but it didn’t work! errors and crashes, which is why I asked for a disk image.

[Tony_G]

I grabbed whatever files were available from the HPAK FTP site for these scopes:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Amqar8_XQ9Uzj6YhN1xHdM8tQdKMOA

You might want to poke around in the share to see if there is an image you can use for your scope (I have an 54845A) - Another user tried this for his 54832B so maybe it is useful as well:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-54835a-scope-(4-channel-1ghz-4gss)-repair-uphack/msg5199210/#msg5199210

Check out the PDF documents for more information.

TonyG

[Shef]

Thanks a lot! Do I need an image of Windows 7 or Win 10 for lga 775 or lga1155? you do not have ? for 54832b

[Tony_G]

The images in the share are going to be whatever HPAK originally offered (or enabled for upgrade) - You don't need a license as they're not general purpose images but instead some form of deployment image (e.g. Ghost) that you write to the device.

As I don't have your scope I can only comment on my experience with 54845A - That was a Ghost image that you needed to boot to MS-DOS with a CDRom attached and then run the Ghost tool to push the image to the drive. My scope was Win98 so I never tried the XP images in the share.

Sorry I can't be more helpful - Hopefully someone else on the thread has used the images and can comment (My post here might help outline the steps - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-54835a-scope-(4-channel-1ghz-4gss)-repair-uphack/msg5197191/#msg5197191

Good luck,

TonyG