Agilent 54835A scope (4 channel 1GHz / 4Gs/s) repair & uphack

[TheSteve]

I've always wondered how HPAK expected the probe ground to connect to the grounding plug given that they have alligator clips on the probes and a socket for the ground....

Anyway, glad to see you scored there - Hopefully Jan does the OpAmp swap and it starts working too.

TonyG

The probe ground is actually very easy to clip too. It isn't a regular banana socket.

[Jwalling]

I've always wondered how HPAK expected the probe ground to connect to the grounding plug given that they have alligator clips on the probes and a socket for the ground....

Anyway, glad to see you scored there - Hopefully Jan does the OpAmp swap and it starts working too.

TonyG

The probe ground is actually very easy to clip too. It isn't a regular banana socket.

And you can always clip it to the AUX out BNC shell anyway...

[Howardlong]

A quick glance of the service manual suggests that the attenuators are a different part number for the 54846a. Are there any thoughts on the hackability up to this version? There was some mention of an extra resistor, R4, somewhere on the acquisition board, but I fear there may be more to it.

[eurofox]

I got finally my scope today. 

Very big surprise when power up, start …. Boot ….. no error …. Pass al tests. 

Does it pass the calibration as well?

Yep, just finish it. 

[Tony_G]

The probe ground is actually very easy to clip too. It isn't a regular banana socket.

Hmm, my clips always seem to slip off at the slightest movement. I'll have to take a close look at the socket.

TonyG

[eurofox]

And now the 2 cent question 

How can options be enabled on infinium scopes? 

If I look to what this guy did, he enabled all available options.

All Enabled Options.
64MPts, EZJIT Plus, High Speed Serial, Low Speed Serial, Force 1G, User Def Fn, eGUI, Voice, Power, PRMLpro, PRMLpro 2, PMRLpro 3, PRMLpro 4, PRMLpro 5, App Remote, Gigabit Ethernet, DVI, HDMI, USB, Wireless USB, USB3 Compliance, Xilinx Probe, Altera Probe, Fibre Channel, CAN, FB DIMM, Express Card, SATA 1, SATA 2, SATA 6 Upgrade, SAS, DDR1, DDR2, DDR3, GDDR, GDDR3, GDDR4, GDDR5, MIPI, Display Port, FlexRay, My Compliance, AP3, AP4, AP5. Some options are officially not supported for this scope model.

http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS/291821246325

[Howardlong]

And now the 2 cent question 

How can options be enabled on infinium scopes? 

If I look to what this guy did, he enabled all available options.

All Enabled Options.
64MPts, EZJIT Plus, High Speed Serial, Low Speed Serial, Force 1G, User Def Fn, eGUI, Voice, Power, PRMLpro, PRMLpro 2, PMRLpro 3, PRMLpro 4, PRMLpro 5, App Remote, Gigabit Ethernet, DVI, HDMI, USB, Wireless USB, USB3 Compliance, Xilinx Probe, Altera Probe, Fibre Channel, CAN, FB DIMM, Express Card, SATA 1, SATA 2, SATA 6 Upgrade, SAS, DDR1, DDR2, DDR3, GDDR, GDDR3, GDDR4, GDDR5, MIPI, Display Port, FlexRay, My Compliance, AP3, AP4, AP5. Some options are officially not supported for this scope model.

http://www.ebay.pl/itm/Agilent-54831D-MSO-4an-16dig-wUpgraded-Motherboard-cpu-2-3-2GHz-RAM-SSD-ALL-OPTS/291821246325

A lot of those options don't work with the 54831D.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-54831d-modernising/msg1144527/#msg1144527 and you add the optioms you want to the licence file. Of course that hack only works with 5.71 software, I am not sure that version works with the 54835/45/46?

[JanNousiainen]

Got 64 MB of RAM yesterday, installed and seemed to work. Today I should have the replacement op amps in my hands. Also ordered regulator for 0.85V rail. Looking for 2.5" IDE HDD to install Win 98 (do not feel like installing on original HDD) and newer software. Also IDE CD-ROM drive is needed.

Is there RS232/SPI/I2C serial decode option for early Infiniums? Or any other options apart from USB testing voice control? All the literature I have seen has been pretty thin on that respect.

[eurofox]

Got 64 MB of RAM yesterday, installed and seemed to work. Today I should have the replacement op amps in my hands. Also ordered regulator for 0.85V rail. Looking for 2.5" IDE HDD to install Win 98 (do not feel like installing on original HDD) and newer software. Also IDE CD-ROM drive is needed.

Is there RS232/SPI/I2C serial decode option for early Infiniums? Or any other options apart from USB testing voice control? All the literature I have seen has been pretty thin on that respect.

I'm not sure that the extra RAM will speed up the oscilloscope software, it seems that limited OS resources are used by the oscilloscope software, on my scope it is very responsive.

I hope that the new IC will solve your problem.

I think power analysis software was available as well but you are right, there is limited information available about the options.

[JanNousiainen]

I'm not sure that the extra RAM will speed up the oscilloscope software, it seems that limited OS resources are used by the oscilloscope software, on my scope it is very responsive.

I hope that the new IC will solve your problem.

I had only 16 MB to start with, that is enough for Windows 95 my unit has but not enough for Windows 98 that is required by last applicable scope SW I believe. So I had to get bit more. There is VRM (voltage regulation module) on motherboard, if I could find a way to drop it's output voltage  from 2.9 V to around 2.2 V I could fit much faster processor. Not that it would make much difference to scope performance I guess

[nctnico]

I did measure an increase in waveforms/s with a faster processor. If you install a lot of memory (which costs peanuts anyway) you can disable swap which will also make Windows work faster.

[eurofox]

I'm not sure that the extra RAM will speed up the oscilloscope software, it seems that limited OS resources are used by the oscilloscope software, on my scope it is very responsive.

I hope that the new IC will solve your problem.

 I could find a way to drop it's output voltage  from 2.9 V to around 2.2 V I could fit much faster processor. Not that it would make much difference to scope performance I guess

A diode will do the job 

[nctnico]

A diode won't work because it's forward voltage depends a lot on the current. Even a Schottky diode will drop close to 1V at higher currents.

[markb82]

A diode won't work because it's forward voltage depends a lot on the current. Even a Schottky diode will drop close to 1V at higher currents.

How about an NPN diode connected (collector to base), which should give you 0.6V even at high currents (within reason).

[JanNousiainen]

OMG 

IMG_20170907_222730 by Jan Nousiainen, on Flickr

IMG_20170907_222745 by Jan Nousiainen, on Flickr

IMG_20170907_225718 by Jan Nousiainen, on Flickr

It fukken works! I got 1.5 GHz 8 GS/s scope for price of 4€ opamp  Now I can justify spending bit money to get second IDE HDD and CD-ROM for upgrade to Windows 98.

[nctnico]

Can somebody lock this thread?  Everyone seems to get these scopes cheaper and with far less serious problems than mine  I cannot stand it! 

[TheSteve]

Does calibration pass?

[eurofox]

Really glad that you could fix it 
And now a calibration run 

[Tony_G]

Nice - It seems that this is the month for these things to become available - There were a few on the auction sites I frequent.

TonyG

[eurofox]

Question about updating the software:

The actual version is 3.7

I manage to move 3.73 (10 floppy disk), 4.3 (3 files) and 4.5 (3 files) by using the network to drive C: in a directory “update”.

Since I don’t want to brick my scope and in all documentation only floppy or CDROM options are discussed.
From the utility menu the upgrade function only work with the floppy, trying to run the exe file (with windows Explorer) start the scope software existing software …. Strange.

Is it really needed to use a CDROM to update the software? 

It all depend of the installation procedure build in the exe update file.

[nctnico]

A few posts back someone described how to upgrade without disk/CDROM. You need to unpack the files to a specific directory and restart the oscilloscope.

[eurofox]

A few posts back someone described how to upgrade without disk/CDROM. You need to unpack the files to a specific directory and restart the oscilloscope.

Thank you for drawing my attention to this post, I missed this one. 

I did something similar from another directory and it was not working. 

By following the procedure it worked like a charm, the directory “update” was hidden. 

After the 4.3 USB analyse was enabled and disappear after installation of 4.5. 

[eurofox]

Is there RS232/SPI/I2C serial decode option for early Infiniums? Or any other options apart from USB testing voice control? All the literature I have seen has been pretty thin on that respect.

Here is the list 

http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1143488-pn-N5445A/infiniium-application-server-license-for-infiniium-oscilloscopes?pm=OP&nid=-32976.685330&cc=GB&lc=eng

[Jwalling]

Is there RS232/SPI/I2C serial decode option for early Infiniums? Or any other options apart from USB testing voice control? All the literature I have seen has been pretty thin on that respect.

Here is the list 

http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1143488-pn-N5445A/infiniium-application-server-license-for-infiniium-oscilloscopes?pm=OP&nid=-32976.685330&cc=GB&lc=eng

Pretty sure none of those work on the first generation Infiniiums.
"User must have Infiniium firmware revision A.05.30 or later"

That version number FW is for the 54830B/D series or later.

EDIT: In fact, other than voice control, the only SW options I know of are are runt triggering (standard on the 54835A and 54845A) and communication masks.

Has anybody ever played with voice control? I've never seen that in action...

[eurofox]

My scope is now 100% OK and update to the latest version. 

Now the probe problem, I have 1 new 1161A supplied with the scope, maybe I’ll try to get another one on a “decent” price but need to come from Europe since shipping and duty make it not affordable in comparison to the investment of the scope. 

I will maybe buy 2 or 4 200mhz probes from Hantek, they are not expensive. 

Now why having a 1.5ghz scope and not having the appropriate probes? 

They are too expensive, 500-800€ and more + shipping cost + duty’s for 1 probe! 

Why not build one like this one : https://elektrotanya.com/files/forum/2009/10/e04a036.pdf 

But put it in an aluminium tube or buy one like this one : http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/RF-Active-Probe-0-1-1500-MHz-1-5-GHz-analyzer-oscilloscope/332253695460?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

It should be possible to get power from the autoprobe, I could manage to build a BNC connector with a pin to get the right voltage needed for this kind of probe. 

Anybody experience in this area?