Agilent 8753ES and other VNAs alike

[acbern]

Sure, a T/R bridge will do as well. But switching cables for different S-measurements and assuming this will not introduce considerable errors especially at the higher frequency end (workmanship dpendent) is probably a best wish only, especially if you want to do calibrated work (with properly calibrated cal kits). At least I dont trust me here. I have seen test sets for 500usds, the 75 ohms ones sometimes go even lower, a 50/75 ohms pad will help (loosing some dynamic range), I still prefer this over cable changing (also being lazy I admit).

Re. source failure, this in most cases seems to be the last stage amplifier die, which is on a ceramic substrate (at least on the older versions up to C). It can be replaced by a MMIC, there is some description if you google for it on an Agilent/Keysight page IIRC, but it is a little painfull. On a 8753B I had, it suddenly died (so as far as I am concerned, of the handfull of 8753 I had, the reliability statistics are bad). I got it to work again, but it was not fully stable at the very low end, output power limitations. This was due to RF choke issues required for the MMIC I used. It worked well from about 0.5 MHz onwards though. So it can be done if need be, considering a working source is probably almost as expensive as a VNA. Others doing that fix may have been more sucessfull here on the low end, not sure.

[joeqsmith]

And here I sit with my 8754   

[G0HZU]

I was going to start a new thread on the 8753ES but a search found this one which, although it has had little activity for almost a year, is still highly relevant.

I am looking for a VNA to help me with 2.4 and 5.8 GHz antenna testing/design and  friend recommended the 8753ES and it seems there are a zillion of them on eBay right now.

In examining options I became confused by option 011 because it looks like that is a negative option, i.e. it takes the away the Built-In Test Set - I don't understand what that is and if it's the same as the S-parameter box that bolts underneath.  If I want to do antenna testing, what options should I look for?

Thanks in advance.

One issue with all of these analysers is that they are big and heavy. So unless you can move the analyser around on a trolley you will either have to carry the analyser to the test area or bring the antennas to the analyser.

Another option would be to buy a handheld Agilent Fieldfox VNA if you just want to do classic/basic antenna testing.  The 8753 VNAs are high performance instruments. I mostly use a VNA to extract n port models of components or circuits for use with an RF simulator. So I need something with the performance of an 8753 in order to minimise errors in the extracted model and I can live with the size/power/weight issues of these VNAs.

So unless you are doing very critical testing of antennas I would think you would be better off with something a bit more portable like the Fieldfox VNA? The performance won't be in the same class as an 8753 but maybe you don't need the extra performance?

[KE5FX]

I was going to start a new thread on the 8753ES but a search found this one which, although it has had little activity for almost a year, is still highly relevant.

I am looking for a VNA to help me with 2.4 and 5.8 GHz antenna testing/design and  friend recommended the 8753ES and it seems there are a zillion of them on eBay right now.

In examining options I became confused by option 011 because it looks like that is a negative option, i.e. it takes the away the Built-In Test Set - I don't understand what that is and if it's the same as the S-parameter box that bolts underneath.  If I want to do antenna testing, what options should I look for?

Thanks in advance.

One issue with all of these analysers is that they are big and heavy. So unless you can move the analyser around on a trolley you will either have to carry the analyser to the test area or bring the antennas to the analyser.

Another option would be to buy a handheld Agilent Fieldfox VNA if you just want to do classic/basic antenna testing.  The 8753 VNAs are high performance instruments. I mostly use a VNA to extract n port models of components or circuits for use with an RF simulator. So I need something with the performance of an 8753 in order to minimise errors in the extracted model and I can live with the size/power/weight issues of these VNAs.

So unless you are doing very critical testing of antennas I would think you would be better off with something a bit more portable like the Fieldfox VNA? The performance won't be in the same class as an 8753 but maybe you don't need the extra performance?

There aren't many areas where the FieldFox VNAs fall short of the 8753-era instruments.  They are definitely not toys.  The 8753s have more available source power, and I don't think the FieldFox supports power sweeps at all, but the major specs are comparable. 

FieldFoxes are generally pretty awesome, but they don't do much unless you add a lot of pricy options.

[TheSteve]

I was going to start a new thread on the 8753ES but a search found this one which, although it has had little activity for almost a year, is still highly relevant.

I am looking for a VNA to help me with 2.4 and 5.8 GHz antenna testing/design and  friend recommended the 8753ES and it seems there are a zillion of them on eBay right now.

In examining options I became confused by option 011 because it looks like that is a negative option, i.e. it takes the away the Built-In Test Set - I don't understand what that is and if it's the same as the S-parameter box that bolts underneath.  If I want to do antenna testing, what options should I look for?

Thanks in advance.

One issue with all of these analysers is that they are big and heavy. So unless you can move the analyser around on a trolley you will either have to carry the analyser to the test area or bring the antennas to the analyser.

Another option would be to buy a handheld Agilent Fieldfox VNA if you just want to do classic/basic antenna testing.  The 8753 VNAs are high performance instruments. I mostly use a VNA to extract n port models of components or circuits for use with an RF simulator. So I need something with the performance of an 8753 in order to minimise errors in the extracted model and I can live with the size/power/weight issues of these VNAs.

So unless you are doing very critical testing of antennas I would think you would be better off with something a bit more portable like the Fieldfox VNA? The performance won't be in the same class as an 8753 but maybe you don't need the extra performance?

There aren't many areas where the FieldFox VNAs fall short of the 8753-era instruments.  They are definitely not toys.  The 8753s have more available source power, and I don't think the FieldFox supports power sweeps at all, but the major specs are comparable. 

FieldFoxes are generally pretty awesome, but they don't do much unless you add a lot of pricy options.

I hope to come across a FieldFox some day so I can have a go at "enabling" those options.

[G0HZU]

There aren't many areas where the FieldFox VNAs fall short of the 8753-era instruments.  They are definitely not toys.  The 8753s have more available source power, and I don't think the FieldFox supports power sweeps at all, but the major specs are comparable. 

FieldFoxes are generally pretty awesome, but they don't do much unless you add a lot of pricy options.

They do look surprisingly good on paper I've not used a Fieldfox VNA yet. We may have one at work somewhere I can play with. But the prices for used ones on ebay seem quite reasonable compared to a 6GHz 8753ES although the 8753ES prices seem quite variable these days. I've seen some really cheap 3GHz 8753ES VNAs recently.

I could have a lot of fun with one of those Fieldfox VNAs because of the portability. I don't do much in the way of research wrt antennas but when I have done this type of work the huge size and weight of a lab VNA does make it harder to 'mess about' with test locations.

I notice that the Fieldfox also offers gated time domain as an option. I know that some of my colleagues have looked into gated TD wrt cancelling multipath signals when doing certain types of antenna testing. I've seen various plots and the results with this mode enabled can be very impressive.

[Gandalf_Sr]

I see that there are a few 8753E's available on eBay - I looked up the basic info and the 'E' seems to have all the s-parameter stuff in it plus an LCD display, can anyone here sum op the differences between the 'E' and the 'ES'?

[G0HZU]

I've only ever used the ES versions at work but I googled for images of the E version and the front panel layout looks a bit different to what I'm used to with the 8753ES.

The E has fewer buttons and this seems to be to do with how many trace channels you can display at once. Also, the E is missing buttons to do with how the sweep and power is set up and it doesn't have a direct marker search button.

So I think the ES version will be a bit slicker in terms of certain button based functions on the front panel. Maybe the E requires a bit more menu bashing to do the same things the ES can do with one button press.

Although I've never used one I would expect that the E will still have the usual error correction algorithms built in and I don't see anything that would put me off buying an E if the price was right. The missing buttons would be a bit confusing to me but only for a few minutes. I rarely need to utilise a 4 channel display at work so this wouldn't put me off either. Edit: It looks like the E version also supports four channels but maybe you have to do more menu bashing to get this because it only has two buttons to cover 4 channels.

[Mosaic]

Can anyone identify which Eproms the 8753D series uses for U24, U25, U4 and U5 so I can purchase them and burn a set with newer firmware?
I don't have a schematic of the VNA so i can't know which is which unless someone guides me.
thx

[bson]

Looking at the 8753D and ES... anyone know off hand what the differences are for units with built-in S-param test sets?
Other than the obvious - display, case, etc.  Any additional useful firmware functionality in the ES?  I'd use it on an ICS 8065 ethernet-to-GPIB bridge.

[mrf245]

I had have HP8751A HP8753D(6G with internal S bridge).I think these VNA is easy to use,but they are too old,maybe breakdown suddenly.I bought HP8714ET last week,it came with little issue,but with full datasheet and service guide documents,I fixed that problem so it works wery well.I like 8714 more than 875X series.

[KJDS]

The 8714 is a good instrument, but phase information is only available via GPIB

[TheSteve]

The 8714 is a good instrument, but phase information is only available via GPIB

Are you sure of that, I thought that only applied to the 8711 series. Th 8712 and higher should provide everything on screen.

[KJDS]

The 8714 is a good instrument, but phase information is only available via GPIB

Are you sure of that, I thought that only applied to the 8711 series. Th 8712 and higher should provide everything on screen.

I've just checked, the 8711 (1.3GHz) and the 8713 (3GHz) don't display phase but the 8714 does.

[TheSteve]

The 8714 is a good instrument, but phase information is only available via GPIB

Are you sure of that, I thought that only applied to the 8711 series. Th 8712 and higher should provide everything on screen.

I've just checked, the 8711 (1.3GHz) and the 8713 (3GHz) don't display phase but the 8714 does.

Not a big deal really anyway - they are easily upgraded to full vector displays on screen.

[G0HZU]

Looking at the 8753D and ES... anyone know off hand what the differences are for units with built-in S-param test sets?
Other than the obvious - display, case, etc.  Any additional useful firmware functionality in the ES?  I'd use it on an ICS 8065 ethernet-to-GPIB bridge.

I think the ES will be faster in terms of display update rate when you run with full s2p correction factors enabled. How much faster I don't know. But I think the processor is more powerful in the ES. I think the other difference is that the ES can display S11, S21,S12 and S22 together on the screen in a quad display but the D can only offer a split (dual) display. However, I'm not sure about this. I'm used to using the ES version at work but not the D.
We do have an 8753D (6GHz) version but I've only used it for brief/simple measurements to see if it still worked. It doesn't get used because the newer ENA and PNA VNAs are much easier to use. Even the 8753ES VNAs are now gathering dust at work for this reason. The user interface is quite good on the D and the ES but only if you stick to doing basic/classic calibrations with known cal kits. If you want to mess with a custom user cal kit/fixture the user interface for this is not good at all. The newer ENA and PNA models run Windows and have a fairly modern user interface and menu system. Once you want to do advanced stuff this really does help a lot.

As you will know, the D has a CRT display and the ES an LCD display. Both displays are dull and gloomy and look very dated although I quite like the colour CRT in the 8753D. However, I'd be happy to use either the D or the ES even if the D is a bit slower. For me the HP8753D is a class above the 8714ET and I would choose it without hesitation. I've owned an 8714 here at home for many years and I really like it as a basic TR VNA but it can't compete with an 8753D.

[G0HZU]

The other difference will probably be wrt depreciation and resale. I think the 8753D will now depreciate a bit faster (and be harder to resell) than the 8753ES because the ES models are beginning to flood onto the used market at lower and lower prices and this can only dent the value and appeal of the older D version even more. But I'd be happy to use either of them professionally at work for basic design or verification work. I'd pick whichever one was nearest/easiest to move to my bench. The main reason I've not used our 8753D very often is because it belongs to another department at work and lives in a different building

[mrf245]

Looking at the 8753D and ES... anyone know off hand what the differences are for units with built-in S-param test sets?
Other than the obvious - display, case, etc.  Any additional useful firmware functionality in the ES?  I'd use it on an ICS 8065 ethernet-to-GPIB bridge.

I think the ES will be faster in terms of display update rate when you run with full s2p correction factors enabled. How much faster I don't know. But I think the processor is more powerful in the ES. I think the other difference is that the ES can display S11, S21,S12 and S22 together on the screen in a quad display but the D can only offer a split (dual) display. However, I'm not sure about this. I'm used to using the ES version at work but not the D.
We do have an 8753D (6GHz) version but I've only used it for brief/simple measurements to see if it still worked. It doesn't get used because the newer ENA and PNA VNAs are much easier to use. Even the 8753ES VNAs are now gathering dust at work for this reason. The user interface is quite good on the D and the ES but only if you stick to doing basic/classic calibrations with known cal kits. If you want to mess with a custom user cal kit/fixture the user interface for this is not good at all. The newer ENA and PNA models run Windows and have a fairly modern user interface and menu system. Once you want to do advanced stuff this really does help a lot.

As you will know, the D has a CRT display and the ES an LCD display. Both displays are dull and gloomy and look very dated although I quite like the colour CRT in the 8753D. However, I'd be happy to use either the D or the ES even if the D is a bit slower. For me the HP8753D is a class above the 8714ET and I would choose it without hesitation. I've owned an 8714 here at home for many years and I really like it as a basic TR VNA but it can't compete with an 8753D.

    I agree with you,871X series are "economical VNA" than 875X series. When measuring, my 8714ET test result is not very stable (I see smith result line still puny shiver...My 8751A result is more stable.  And,875X series has independent A B R receivers, but 871X only have 2 receivers.
    8751A has no S-parameter test set when came to me, so I bought HP85044A T/R test set to couple with it to test S11 S21, works fine.

[Mosaic]

Hi All:
If anyone needs a set of the latest (6.14) firmware for the 8753D I can supply them now on plug & play EEPROMS plus 10 mins of your time to install.
protofabtt@gmail.com

[Gandalf_Sr]

I have just managed to order an 8753E on eBay, is some sort of firmware upgrade possible depending on what it has when I get it?

[trukresom]

Hi,

I upgraded my 8753E to the latest available firmware revision 7.74 without any problem.
Beside other improvements this version offers a couple of display formats with all
four S-parameters on one screen.
You can find this revision on this page here:
http://na.support.keysight.com/8753/firmware/firmware.htm

[Gandalf_Sr]

Trukresom, thanks for the info and link on upgrading the firmware.  A couple of questions if I may:

• Is your network analyzer branded 'HP' or 'Agilent'?
• Was the upgrade done by downloading the file and putting it on floppy disk?

[trukresom]

Hi Gandalf_Sr

Is your network analyzer branded 'HP' or 'Agilent'?

It is branded HP. Exactly it is a HP8753E Option 011  (without built-in S-parameter set.)

Was the upgrade done by downloading the file and putting it on floppy disk?

Yes, exactly as it is described on the bottom of this page:
http://na.support.keysight.com/8753/firmware/firmware.htm
by downloading and unzipping the file
http://na.support.keysight.com/8753/dl_files/8753ee774.exe

Good luck !

[Gandalf_Sr]

Trukresom, thanks for the detailed reply

I just received my 8753E with options 006 and 010; it is HP-branded and S.N. US38431926 at FW Vn 07.68

Now I need to add a floppy disk drive to one of my PCs, it's been a while since I used a floppy; are these the standard 1.44 MByte drives?

[trukresom]

Gandalf_Sr,

I just received my 8753E with options 006 and 010; it is HP-branded and S.N. US38431926 at FW Vn 07.68

Mine has S.N. US37390418, thus it seems to be older than yours.

are these the standard 1.44 MByte drives?

Yes, these are standard DOS-formatted 1.44 MB floppies. Sometimes I record plotfiles of
screenshots onto such floppies and then mount them on a linux box to retrieve the plots.