Agilent DSO-X3024A v. Rigol DS4024

[Attorney]

Datasheet says 1mV/div. Still 2x the minimum of the Rigol, but not at all bad.

If you look closely at the datasheet spec, there is a footnote that says:

"** 1 mV/div and 2 mV/div are a magnification of 4 mV/div setting. For vertical accuracy calculations, use full scale of 32 mV for 1 mV/div and
 2 mV/div sensitivity setting."

So, how significant is the handicap?  The Rigol DS2K series sports a 500uV/div. vertical amplitude position but can its 8-bit ADC architecture really resolve to show much *less* than 500uV, or is it more of a marketing "bragging right?"  On the lowest vertical scale(s), is Rigol using an exceptionally low-noise switched instrumentation amp at the input?

I think a side-by-side measurement comparison between the DS2000 series and scopes like the DSOX-3000 is likely the only way of knowing for sure.

Paul
 

[JDubU]

So, how significant is the handicap?  The Rigol DS2K series sports a 500uV/div. vertical amplitude position but can its 8-bit ADC architecture really resolve to show much *less* than 500uV, or is it more of a marketing "bragging right?"  On the lowest vertical scale(s), is Rigol using an exceptionally low-noise switched instrumentation amp at the input?

Don't have access to an Agilent but on my DS2072, I am getting the following noise floor (probes unplugged with input BNC's left open, vertical scale: 500uV/div):

Horizontal scale: 5ns/div
125uV RMS
550uV PP

Horizontal scale: 1uV/div:
230uV RMS
900uV PP

Horizontal scale: 100uV/div:
380uV RMS
1200uV PP


These numbers are lower with the vertical channel bandwidth limit enabled.

[Attorney]

So, how significant is the handicap?  The Rigol DS2K series sports a 500uV/div. vertical amplitude position but can its 8-bit ADC architecture really resolve to show much *less* than 500uV, or is it more of a marketing "bragging right?"  On the lowest vertical scale(s), is Rigol using an exceptionally low-noise switched instrumentation amp at the input?

Don't have access to an Agilent but on my DS2072, I am getting the following noise floor (probes unplugged with input BNC's left open, vertical scale: 500uV/div):

Horizontal scale: 5ns/div
125uV RMS
550uV PP

Horizontal scale: 1uV/div:
230uV RMS
900uV PP

Horizontal scale: 100uV/div:
380uV RMS
1200uV PP

Opening the channel BNC port or grounding the input and just observing the noise floor display tells us nothing about resolving low voltages.  That requires applying a known low voltage (in the uV range) to the input and simultaneously watching the display as the source voltage level is gradually redudced.  Then, that result should be compared against a competing scope.

Paul
   

[JDubU]

Opening the channel BNC port or grounding the input and just observing the noise floor display tells us nothing about resolving low voltages.  That requires applying a known low voltage (in the uV range) to the input and simultaneously watching the display as the source voltage level is gradually reduced.  Then, that result should be compared against a competing scope.

Yes, that test would definitely give more practical information. 

Here is a good app note from Agilent that discusses methods and compares noise floor among several scopes:
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-3020EN.pdf

[Attorney]

Opening the channel BNC port or grounding the input and just observing the noise floor display tells us nothing about resolving low voltages.  That requires applying a known low voltage (in the uV range) to the input and simultaneously watching the display as the source voltage level is gradually reduced.  Then, that result should be compared against a competing scope.

Yes, that test would definitely give more practical information. 

Here is a good app note from Agilent that discusses methods and compares noise floor among several scopes:
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-3020EN.pdf

Great info.  Thanks for passing this along.

Paul

[Christe4nM]

Or, with the Agilent DSO-X series getting a bit "long in the tooth," I would not be surprised to see a replacement Agilent series on the near horizon.  When a pricing drops that much, something is almost always happening in the background.

Paul

The 3000X series was introduced first quarter of 2011. I don't think it's going to be replaced anytime soon.

My best guess is that they can afford to do this now that they've established their product in the market (maybe even got their NRE costs covered by now) and want to keep their market from getting snatched by Rigol and others.

BTW, the price for the 100 MHz has actually gone up a bit, and the price for the ~€600 upgrades has too.

Tip: there's a special offer on at the moment whereby you get a free bandwidth upgrade, so you'll get a 3024 for the price of a 3014 - check Agilent's web site for details. It's a major bargain IMHO.

Thanksalot!  it seems that I'll be getting the 350 MHz instead of the 200 MHz when my budget+savings reach the threshold in a few months, still long enough before the end of this promo

[kurtm]

Opening the channel BNC port or grounding the input and just observing the noise floor display tells us nothing about resolving low voltages.  That requires applying a known low voltage (in the uV range) to the input and simultaneously watching the display as the source voltage level is gradually redudced.  Then, that result should be compared against a competing scope.

I agree with this, but how would you seriously discuss about measuring signals in the sub-mV range with that much noise ?
Below is a screenshot of my Rigol DS4054. All Channels terminated with 50 Ohms, sensitivity set to 1mV/div.
BW limits  CH1: OFF   CH2: 200MHz    CH3:100MHz  CH4: 20MHz.

[Hydrawerk]

Well, with 20MHz bandwidth it is OK. It might be useful for measuring small audio signal from a microphone or so.

[grego]

Looks like there's a good deal on eBay right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-MSOX3024A-Oscilloscope-200-MHz-4-Analog-Plus-16-Digital-Channels-/131019619339

No I'm not affiliated, I just saw it myself.  If I hadn't just gotten my 3024 a couple days ago I would have bought this.  It's $750 below what you would pay new with the current promotion and it's only 5 months old.  About the only thing I'd ask the seller is a copy of the cal cert to verify the age.

Kind of kicking myself now, but hey - you can't rely on ebay - sometimes good things just pop up.

[Attorney]

My DSOX-3024A and Rigol DS4024 showed up last week. Both are excellent devices.  However, the fan on the Rigol is quite loud.   Not sure year if I'll keep one or the other -- or keep both.  But if I keep both, that's a lot of dough needlessly sitting on the bench when it can be put to better use.

On the DSOX-3024A, how is the full measurement screen attained?  I cannot get the right menu to disappear.  On the Rigol, it's just one button push.

Paul

[grego]

My DSOX-3024A and Rigol DS4024 showed up last week. Both are excellent devices.  However, the fan on the Rigol is quite loud.   Not sure year if I'll keep one or the other -- or keep both.  But if I keep both, that's a lot of dough needlessly sitting on the bench when it can be put to better use.

On the DSOX-3024A, how is the full measurement screen attained?  I cannot get the right menu to disappear.  On the Rigol, it's just one button push.

Paul

On the Agilent the right menu is persistent - no way to remove it.  It's always 10 divisions.  Dave mentioned it in his original 2000 review in 2011.  It's not a huge deal as I've found.  Sure it'd be nice to gain 2 more divisions but it's not a dealbreaker.

Keeping both seems like a bit much for a home lab unless you have a specific need for it.

As for the fan - the funny thing is my Agilent 3024 is the quietest thing on my bench.  That thing is whisper quiet.

[Electro Fan]

My DSOX-3024A and Rigol DS4024 showed up last week. Both are excellent devices.  However, the fan on the Rigol is quite loud.   Not sure year if I'll keep one or the other -- or keep both.  But if I keep both, that's a lot of dough needlessly sitting on the bench when it can be put to better use.

On the DSOX-3024A, how is the full measurement screen attained?  I cannot get the right menu to disappear.  On the Rigol, it's just one button push.

Paul

Having both side by side is a very cool opportunity.  If you can summarize the key differences / your impressions there are probably lots of folks that would be up for hearing your thoughts.  Congrats and Enjoy!

[tized]

My DSOX-3024A and Rigol DS4024 showed up last week. Both are excellent devices.  However, the fan on the Rigol is quite loud.   Not sure year if I'll keep one or the other -- or keep both.  But if I keep both, that's a lot of dough needlessly sitting on the bench when it can be put to better use.

On the DSOX-3024A, how is the full measurement screen attained?  I cannot get the right menu to disappear.  On the Rigol, it's just one button push.

Paul

Having both side by side is a very cool opportunity.  If you can summarize the key differences / your impressions there are probably lots of folks that would be up for hearing your thoughts.  Congrats and Enjoy!

Second that. I'm still on the fence...

Newark now lists the DSOX3024A at $3,876, so some States side people got a really nice deal with the $3,222 promotion.
Farnell took the price down to $4,417. It's like the stock market there!

[grego]

Wow - true.  Even though I had to pay sales tax I still got a better deal (I forgot Newark was in Chicago when I ordered - oops <grin>).

And looks like someone pulled the trigger on that 5 month old MSOX on ebay which is an even better deal now with the price change.

If cost is the motivating factor looks like the Rigol MSO is definitely superior now.  I won't complain though - looks like I got a pretty sweet deal on my DSOX3024.

[Attorney]

Wow - true.  Even though I had to pay sales tax I still got a better deal (I forgot Newark was in Chicago when I ordered - oops <grin>).

And looks like someone pulled the trigger on that 5 month old MSOX on ebay which is an even better deal now with the price change.

If cost is the motivating factor looks like the Rigol MSO is definitely superior now.  I won't complain though - looks like I got a pretty sweet deal on my DSOX3024.

Looks like our Newark orders were part of the same group.  It seems fewer than a half-dozen units sold at the USD $3222 price if their on-line quantities are accurate.   I'm still comparing it with the Rigol DS4024.  It will take a me a bit of time to get comfortable enough with each in order to make any semblance of an educated evaluation. 

I did note that the comprehensive Agilent manual states 256 intensity grades rather than 64 as shown in the on-line brochure.  To me, waveform detail looks identical between the Agilent and Rigol.     The control response time is significantly better on the Agilent.   It's like manipulating an analog scope.  My big gripe is that it doesn't appear that the right menu display on the Agilent can be turned on/off to allow for more displayed measurement area.  Heck, I can even do that on my cheap Hantek DSO5102B.

Paul

[AndyC_772]

You can't turn off the right side measurement block on the Agilent, it's there permanently. On the plus side, what it does mean is that if you have the display in Roll mode, the trace is properly aligned with the right side of the graticule.

On the Rigol, if you have the right side menu enabled, it actually obscures two grid squares, which means there's a lag between the input signal and the change being visible on screen.

It's the difference in the cursor response that I find most dramatic between the two - the Agilent is smooth, responsive and easy to use, while the Rigol is the exact opposite. Since I tend to use the cursors all the time instead of the built-in measurements, the difference is a major time saver for me.

[grego]

Newark is offering 15% off now with coupon code FALL15OFF - which brings the DSOX3024 down to about $3299.  Just a heads up.

[aholtzma]

grego: where did you see this advertised? The code doesn't seem to work for me (in either the Canadian or US stores).

[grego]

grego: where did you see this advertised? The code doesn't seem to work for me (in either the Canadian or US stores).

I got an email from them.

http://view.email.newark.com/?j=fe62167376650c7a7717&m=fe64157071660d747415&ls=fdf611727664017f7211747d&l=fe9f15747564057474&s=fe201d757c62067e7c1672&jb=ff60157772&ju=fe34177075630675761573&et_cid=23318723&et_rid=959623922&CMP=EMC-23318723&v=1&r=0

That was the link for the program.

[Attorney]

You can't turn off the right side measurement block on the Agilent, it's there permanently. On the plus side, what it does mean is that if you have the display in Roll mode, the trace is properly aligned with the right side of the graticule.

On the Rigol, if you have the right side menu enabled, it actually obscures two grid squares, which means there's a lag between the input signal and the change being visible on screen.

It's the difference in the cursor response that I find most dramatic between the two - the Agilent is smooth, responsive and easy to use, while the Rigol is the exact opposite. Since I tend to use the cursors all the time instead of the built-in measurements, the difference is a major time saver for me.

I guess there really is no free lunch.  Thanks for the detailed feedback.

Paul

[aholtzma]

grego: where did you see this advertised? The code doesn't seem to work for me (in either the Canadian or US stores).

I got an email from them.

http://view.email.newark.com/?j=fe62167376650c7a7717&m=fe64157071660d747415&ls=fdf611727664017f7211747d&l=fe9f15747564057474&s=fe201d757c62067e7c1672&jb=ff60157772&ju=fe34177075630675761573&et_cid=23318723&et_rid=959623922&CMP=EMC-23318723&v=1&r=0

That was the link for the program.

Sadly this discount does not apply to test equipment.

[grego]

Ah yes, the dreaded fine print:

"Contractual considerations with a small number of manufacturers may reduce or prevent a voucher discount on selected items, including test equipment, IC tools and accessories, and power supplies."

Sounds like it may apply to some stuff but both everything.  Sorry about that.

[AndyC_772]

I keep getting discount offers when I place orders with them... I'll order £20 worth of bits, and a 'one time only' voucher appears on screen telling me I can have a discount if I increase the order value to, say, £150.

The caveat is that the discount doesn't apply to the big, expensive items like test equipment, so I can't just order a handful of small components, get the voucher, and then buy a scope with it.

I guess there really is no free lunch.

Free lunch, with Agilent? 

Order lunch from Agilent and even the knife and fork are extra cost options!

[grego]

Separately, if anyone with an Agilent is looking to option it up so far the best pricing I've found is through TestEquity (testequity.com).  Again, not affiliated I just priced out a bunch of different authorized vendors and they came up the best at about 9% off list.  Just saying in case anyone is out shopping.

[grego]

Wow - true.  Even though I had to pay sales tax I still got a better deal (I forgot Newark was in Chicago when I ordered - oops <grin>).

And looks like someone pulled the trigger on that 5 month old MSOX on ebay which is an even better deal now with the price change.

If cost is the motivating factor looks like the Rigol MSO is definitely superior now.  I won't complain though - looks like I got a pretty sweet deal on my DSOX3024.

Looks like our Newark orders were part of the same group.  It seems fewer than a half-dozen units sold at the USD $3222 price if their on-line quantities are accurate.   I'm still comparing it with the Rigol DS4024.  It will take a me a bit of time to get comfortable enough with each in order to make any semblance of an educated evaluation. 

I did note that the comprehensive Agilent manual states 256 intensity grades rather than 64 as shown in the on-line brochure.  To me, waveform detail looks identical between the Agilent and Rigol.     The control response time is significantly better on the Agilent.   It's like manipulating an analog scope.  My big gripe is that it doesn't appear that the right menu display on the Agilent can be turned on/off to allow for more displayed measurement area.  Heck, I can even do that on my cheap Hantek DSO5102B.

Paul

So any further updates on your side-by-side comparison?