Author Topic: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70  (Read 963 times)

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Offline jdurango

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Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« on: March 25, 2019, 09:06:28 am »
I'm looking for mostly an ESR meter, preferably one that is capable of testing in circuit, but having LCR functionality would be cool too. I can get any of these for roughly the same price (around $100, $50 for the MESR100, the U1733c would be used).

I'm leanings towards the U1733c since it seems like a great deal @ $100 and it's a professional, well-built instrument with good support.

My concerns are that the manual states you must discharge all caps before testing or testing in circuit. Does this mean there's no protection or discharge ability? Can't find this in the manual.

Also, there are reports of buggy firmware, so I checked the Agilent website to see if they've released updated firmware to fix these bugs. I can't find any way to download any firmware whatsoever....any insight here? Have they improved on the terrible 0.27 version, and if so, how do I perform the update?

Would I be better off with something else in the $100 ballpark, or the MESR100 v2 for half? Thanks fellas!
 

Offline xwarp

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2019, 09:41:08 am »
If those are the only choices you have, then the u1733c.

If it were me, I'd buy a DE-5000 for another 30 off ebay.
 

Offline jdurango

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2019, 10:08:35 am »
The DE5000 looks great, but I'm concerned that it has no discharge or protection ability and it's not recommended for in circuit testing (although there seems to be discussion about this in forums).

I'm not sure if the Agilent has protection but the manual says it can be used in circuit if caps are discharged.....which is pretty much the same thing people are saying about the DE5000, even though it's not recommended by the manufacturer. So I'm confused. Does that mean the Agilent has protection or discharge? Or they're just more risky?
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2019, 10:15:33 am »
I don't think any of them have any real protection - it is pretty tough to add that and still be able to measure inductance, resistance and capacitance etc. With all LCR meters you should ensure caps are discharged before measuring.
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Offline jdurango

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2019, 10:24:30 am »
 The Peak ESR70 has protection up to I believe 50v 2200uf and ability to sense the cap and discharge it before testing. Granted, this is rare, and pretty much non-existant on LCR meters as you've pointed out.

Further digging reveals the test reference voltage on the U1733c is too high for in circuit testing of circuits with semi-conductors (even though it says it can be used for this in the manual), while the reference level on the DE5000 IS semi-conductor/in circuit safe, but the manual says it CAN'T be used in circuit.

I'm beginning to think that IET/DER is just playing it extra safe.

So here's my concern. How do I make sure all caps in a unit are fully discharged and will not be recharged by other caps? Start with the biggest psu/caps and work down to the smaller caps? Again, my main purpose will be testing ESR in circuit. The DE5000 looks great, but I'm worried about frying it. If it's going to be just as safe as any other meter, that's a no-brainer! But if I run a good risk of frying it trying to do in-circuit testing, I should probably go with the ESR70 or MESR100 that are specifically designed to test in circuit (although I don't believe the MESR has any protection either.....so maybe not any safer than the DE5000.....this is all so confusing lol)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 10:33:18 am by jdurango »
 

Offline DaJMasta

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 10:49:27 am »
It doesn't take much to discharge them on your own, and LCR testing is usually done before the part is installed or on signal level parts that wouldn't hold damaging charge in the first place.  Outside of some specific use cases, I don't think the protection is going to do anything for you.

I had a DE-5000 before I got my current bench LCR meter and it did a great job.  The Keysight should be fine for the job, but is in the same accuracy and features category as the DE-5000 with several times the cost normally, if you can get it for $100 or so, it's probably a fine choice for the value and would have more resale value, but probably doesn't perform notably better than the DE-5000.
 

Offline PTR_1275

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2019, 12:34:51 pm »
Where can you get a u1733c used for ~100? That seems like a really good deal. I bought mine for au$250 from a bloke locally (with a few accessories) and I thought that was a really good deal.

I considered the Der ee meter, but I am happy with the Agilent.

Because I only have the one lcr meter I can’t offer any actual comparisons.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2019, 12:41:30 pm »
Where can you get a u1733c used for ~100? That seems like a really good deal. I bought mine for au$250 from a bloke locally (with a few accessories) and I thought that was a really good deal.

I considered the Der ee meter, but I am happy with the Agilent.

Because I only have the one lcr meter I can’t offer any actual comparisons.
Same question here. I got it's predecessor for around that price, but that one doesn't do ESR.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2019, 02:48:03 pm »
For only $100, I'd take the U1733C, no second thoughts required. You don't have a country selected in your profile so I can't tell where you are, but if you don't want it and it's in the US with reasonable shipping cost, I'll buy it right now.

If you don't need to measure LCR components and you're concerned about accidentally blowing up a combo meter like the DE5000 or U1733C, then get a dedicated and protected ESR meter. If you do need an LCR meter, too, you can get one of each and have peace of mind, but it really depends on your personal preference.

Regarding in-circuit cap testing, regardless what test voltages are used, you can be misled if the component is left in-circuit. So, you do need to be aware of the circuit layout and all components that may affect behavior. For best results, you should at least disconnect one leg of an in-circuit component to test it.
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Offline mr.fabe

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2019, 04:43:10 pm »
I have the MESR100 v2, Peak ESR70, and the U1733C.  If you can get the U1733C for $100, then that's a great deal and you should jump on it.  It's a current model offering by Keysight and you can get support for the unit should you require it.  Keysight service is awesome.
The MESR100 v2 is an inexpensive device that checks ESR only.  It has short leads that can get a little annoying to use in-circuit but it works.
The Peak ESR70 is a good for ESR and capacitance, discharges caps <50v, long and flexible lead options.  Limited to caps 1uf and higher.
The U1733C is great for caps and inductors, has five frequencies for testing, and does a multiple types of measurements vs. the previous two units.
The DE5000 is very similar to the U1733C but at a lower price point and an excellent value for what it offers.

A U1733C for $100 is a no brainer.  Buy it and if you don't like it, you can always sell it later and get a DE5000, Peak, and MESR100 with the proceeds.
 

Offline jdurango

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2019, 07:11:46 pm »
I'm in the US (Seattle) and ended up buying the U1733c. I found it on OfferUp after looking for a deal on all the meters in question. Unfortunately it was the only one available, sorry.

My Brymen DMM was lost on a job and I currently only have a crappy DMM and a good Tek scope. I figure the LCR will cover a lot of ground the crappy DMM doesn't, but eventually I'll need a proper true RMS meter.

What would you recommend for a good DMM to compliment the U1733c? I was going to get another BM869 or possibly a Fluke 87v, but won't necessarily need one that does capacitance now that it's taken care of with a far more accurate LCR (side note, my Brymen always seemed to read cap values higher than rated/expected).

Thanks again everyone!
 

Offline bugi

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2019, 08:19:47 pm »
Further digging reveals the test reference voltage on the U1733c is too high for in circuit testing of circuits with semi-conductors (even though it says it can be used for this in the manual), while the reference level on the DE5000 IS semi-conductor/in circuit safe, but the manual says it CAN'T be used in circuit.
Just to point this little bit of info out, I measured my DE-5000 while it was measuring various components, and results are that it is mostly working at about 1.80V offset above its negative plane (or "guard" connection), and up to 1.96Vpp sine between the nodes. So, I'd say it can trip semi-conductors quite well.

But, as others have mentioned, in-circuit measurement can be tricky even without semi-conductors and with any low voltage levels, too.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2019, 09:04:21 pm »
I'm looking for mostly an ESR meter, preferably one that is capable of testing in circuit, but having LCR functionality would be cool too. I can get any of these for roughly the same price (around $100, $50 for the MESR100, the U1733c would be used).
I'm leanings towards the U1733c since it seems like a great deal @ $100 and it's a professional, well-built instrument with good support.

I have the DE5000 and U1733C and the U1733C is better and the one I use all the time. $100 sounds like a good price.

Quote
My concerns are that the manual states you must discharge all caps before testing or testing in circuit. Does this mean there's no protection or discharge ability? Can't find this in the manual.

They all say that.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2019, 09:25:08 pm »
As a general comment, there is always a tradeoff when input protection is added to a tester of any kind. It can either add capacitance and/or inductance, increase inherent noise, decrease sensitivity, etc.

Another general comment: in-circuit testing  usually has a very low level of confidence in its results. Too many factors can contribute to the accuracy of the measurements.

All that said, congratulations in the purchase of the U1733C!
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline xwarp

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2019, 11:07:35 pm »

I have the DE5000 and U1733C and the U1733C is better and the one I use all the time. $100 sounds like a good price.


Would you mind elaborating, or have you done a comparison video that you could link?
 

Offline jdurango

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2019, 04:16:30 am »
Just to be clear, I'm not worried about high accuracy when it comes to in-circuit testing, as long as it's safe for the meter and circuit and the results are within about 10% in MOST cases for ESR (I realize some areas of some circuits will inherently give skewed readings on single caps). I just need it to do a relatively good job of sniffing out bad caps most of the time quickly and safely so that if something looks suspicious, I can desolder one leg, check it outside of the circuit, and if it's good, move on, or bad, replace it. I don't need the meter to be dead on to a 100th or even a 10th of a decimal point in most cases, just to be relatively fast (hence in circuit) and safe (don't wanna end up having to fix the stuff I use to fix stuff lol).

I'm pumped to get the Agilent! Again, any recommendations on a good DMM to compliment it (along with an ESR70 at some point)?

I'm doing mostly audio circuits, try to stay away from higher voltage tube stuff but might get into that eventually. Thanks fellas!
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2019, 05:16:33 am »
I'm pumped to get the Agilent! Again, any recommendations on a good DMM to compliment it (along with an ESR70 at some point)?

I'm doing mostly audio circuits, try to stay away from higher voltage tube stuff but might get into that eventually. Thanks fellas!
Given you are working with audio, you may want to get a DMM that has at least 20kHz of bandwidth (100kHz would be ideal).

You can take a look at the spreadsheet of Wytnucls at the thread below, with honorable mentions to Brymen BM867/BM869, Keysight U1272A/1273A/1282A, Hioki DT4281/4282, Amprobe AM-160 or an oldie but goodie Fluke 8060A.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline mr.fabe

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2019, 07:52:12 am »
Just to be clear, I'm not worried about high accuracy when it comes to in-circuit testing, as long as it's safe for the meter and circuit and the results are within about 10% in MOST cases for ESR (I realize some areas of some circuits will inherently give skewed readings on single caps). I just need it to do a relatively good job of sniffing out bad caps most of the time quickly and safely so that if something looks suspicious, I can desolder one leg, check it outside of the circuit, and if it's good, move on, or bad, replace it. I don't need the meter to be dead on to a 100th or even a 10th of a decimal point in most cases, just to be relatively fast (hence in circuit) and safe (don't wanna end up having to fix the stuff I use to fix stuff lol).

I'm pumped to get the Agilent! Again, any recommendations on a good DMM to compliment it (along with an ESR70 at some point)?

I'm doing mostly audio circuits, try to stay away from higher voltage tube stuff but might get into that eventually. Thanks fellas!

If your good with the U1733C, then there would be no need to consider the ESR70.  You already would have a great handheld diagnostic tool for caps and inductors.  I wouldn't recommend spending more money on additional cap testers.

DMM's to choose are many... there are a multitude of threads that can help you determine what may be best for your areas of focus...
 

Offline jdurango

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 04:58:27 pm »
Just picked up a u1253b for $200 to compliment the U1733c! I'm on a roll finding great deals on Agilent meters! Gunna order a couple OLED screens for if, scratch that, WHEN the stock one dies! Figure I can always use the Bluetooth display option too.

Anyway, thanks fellas! Looks like I'm all set for now!
 

Offline mr.fabe

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2019, 08:06:12 am »
You'll probably need a case to hold all the 9v batteries you'll be using for these meters...
 

Offline jdurango

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Re: Agilent U1733c vs DE5000 vs MESR100 vs ESR70
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2019, 07:29:11 am »
Lol yyyyyyyyuuuuuup! Just ordered 8 9v Li-ons from Amazon.
 


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