Author Topic: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos  (Read 31246 times)

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Offline bxs

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ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« on: July 01, 2011, 09:19:46 AM »
Hi,

« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 09:22:01 AM by bxs »
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 09:22:08 AM »
Welcome to the forum!
Any thoughts about the quality of the scope? At first glance it looks like a competitor of the Rigol DS1052E. I will take a more in depth look at this scope and compare it to the Rigol.
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Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2011, 09:24:49 AM »
Some more  ;)
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2011, 09:31:40 AM »
Welcome to the forum!
Any thoughts about the quality of the scope? At first glance it looks like a competitor of the Rigol DS1052E. I will take a more in depth look at this scope and compare it to the Rigol.

Not really sure, have it for some days, but didn't test it yet  ;D, lack of time.

I need a scope to have here at home, and just searched to cheap ones, this one come already at 100MHz 1Gsps, and a bigger LCD, the RIGOL comes at 50MHz, so...

The same scope exist with at least another brand name, so, the same story, Chinese clones clones clones clones  :D
 

Offline armandas

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2011, 06:30:51 PM »
Interesting fuse on the PSU board. I wonder what its current rating is.. :)
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2011, 06:40:27 PM »
Interesting fuse on the PSU board. I wonder what its current rating is.. :)
Is there another fuse, e.g. at the mains inlet?
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Offline tinhead

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2011, 09:57:26 PM »
this is actually the new PCB revision using Altery Cyclone IV already, which from FPGA speed7stability, clock jitter and waveformdistortion didn't really matter because Cyclone III and Cyclone IV
are not different in this category, but the board is a universal board for CAL and CML model - so with additional SRAM chip and (probably) different firmware you can "update it" to CML model.

About the cloning thigns - actually most chinese DSOs are using almost the same input stage (from 40 to 300MHz), there is not reason why they should
not do this, that's not cloning at all. Sure Atten CAL/CML board looks very similar to Rigol E board (except the LCD controller whish need to be different due LCD size)
but hey, that's only piece of silicon, the programming matters (FPGA, CPLD, DSP), there are billions of way to win or screw up the DSO design.

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Offline saturation

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2011, 10:00:05 PM »
Thanks for taking the tear downs,  it'll take a while to study the pics.  I noticed the name Siglent on the PCB, a brand Atten tried to push but it seemed to go nowhere; Atten doesn't bother erase the chip markings, making it easier to identify.

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2011, 10:21:27 PM »
btw, there is one important difference between Rigol and ATTEN CAL/CML - ATTEN doen NOT use EEPROM connected
to DSP, so potential hack by replacing the whole firmware could be much easier .. of course if you get somewhere
ATTEN firmware (CML or higher bw CAL models)
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
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Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2011, 04:40:32 AM »
Interesting fuse on the PSU board. I wonder what its current rating is.. :)

Well, I also had problems trying to figure that, don't know why  ;)

Is there another fuse, e.g. at the mains inlet?

Yes, you must have some powers  :)

« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 06:18:26 AM by bxs »
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2011, 05:05:17 AM »
(...)the board is a universal board for CAL and CML model - so with additional SRAM chip and (probably) different firmware you can "update it" to CML model.
(...)the programming matters (FPGA, CPLD, DSP), there are billions of way to win or screw up the DSO design.

Probably in CML board the IC footprint right of FPGA is populated.

And I'm with you at the programming thing.

btw, there is one important difference between Rigol and ATTEN CAL/CML - ATTEN doen NOT use EEPROM connected
to DSP, so potential hack by replacing the whole firmware could be much easier .. of course if you get somewhere
ATTEN firmware (CML or higher bw CAL models)

About firmwares I can't find them in web, maybe my fault...
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 05:16:15 AM by bxs »
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2011, 05:13:00 AM »
Thanks for taking the tear downs,  it'll take a while to study the pics.  I noticed the name Siglent on the PCB, a brand Atten tried to push but it seemed to go nowhere; Atten doesn't bother erase the chip markings, making it easier to identify.

One of the things I wanted to know, were the references of ADCs, but no luck, they removed it  >:(

Probably they are using slow rated ADCs...
 

Offline Richard W.

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2011, 05:26:12 AM »
Nice pictures, but build quality doesn't impress me really.

What means the symbol on picture 14.jpg between the CE and the crossed recycle bin?
 


Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2011, 06:00:51 AM »
nice scope. that dodgy fuse can take something at least 10~20A by the look.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2011, 07:22:19 AM »

One of the things I wanted to know, were the references of ADCs, but no luck, they removed it  >:(
Probably they are using slow rated ADCs...

probably, not that AD9288-100 costs much more than the -40, but you if a manufacturer (like Rigol or ATTEN)
save money but cutting (or actually not installing) proper shielding between PSU and main PCB then you
can assume that the ADCs are cheap once too.

Probably in CML board the IC footprint right of FPGA is populated.

right, IS61LPS51236A-200TQLI, thats about 25$ where the price diff to CML is about 150$. However, before you (or someone else) start to think about potential hack one need to be done:
- there is CPLD on bottom side of the PCB, if address counter for SRAM is done by CPLD you can't hack because ATTEN probably
programmed it different, if within FPGA then CML firmware will be the solution as it contains FPGA deisgn file.
So in principle someone having CAL need to check if the SRAM address pins are connected to CPLD.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2011, 08:34:10 AM »
probably, not that AD9288-100 costs much more than the -40, but you if a manufacturer (like Rigol or ATTEN)
save money but cutting (or actually not installing) proper shielding between PSU and main PCB then you
can assume that the ADCs are cheap once too.

You are right, everything is cheap, even the price of the scope, the main reason for my choice  :)
What I really don't like is having the ADC's reference erased, I know that is a common practice, but I hate it.
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2011, 10:07:12 AM »
Some more images, now about PC interface/software

About USB, the lsusb give me this:
ID f4ec:ee38 Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies Digital Storage Oscilloscope

As expected no suport for Linux.

But you are thinking, "dude forget Linux, simple use Windows", right?
Humm... I'm not so sure.

The good part: exist a driver
The bad part: is only 32bit, no 64bit version, WTF!!!

These days I'm a Linux user, but I have a partition with windows 7, but guess what, yes, yes 64bit, so useless.
I end up going to a prehistoric desktop whit Windows XP 32bit and tested it, but, guess what, conection is slowwww.

So what? I'm quite smart, so I managed to put it working in Windows 64bit machine and also on Linux, with the more prehistoric RS232.

Here are some images of the PC software (EasyScope 3.0) running in Linux under Wine, and some captures from scope.
 

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2011, 10:44:03 AM »
Is there another fuse, e.g. at the mains inlet?
Yes, you must have some powers  :)

When it comes to fuses on the mains inlet, indeed he does, he is British!  ;)
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2011, 11:04:56 AM »
hehe who need Linux :P

There are some Blackfin dev board having same USB chip, look for isp1362bd. There are also some Linux drivers,
i think with some trick it will work for you.
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2011, 07:25:37 PM »
About USB, the lsusb give me this:
ID f4ec:ee38 Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies Digital Storage Oscilloscope

As expected no suport for Linux.

Bad. Can you do a full lsusb -v and show the output? I would be interested in in seeing if they use a known USB class / sub class. This enhances the chance to get a kernel driver for it. And even if there isn't a kernel driver, if they use a standardized class you can get the documentation from usb.org, which opens the way for an own driver (typical in user space, which isn't too difficult to do).

Quote
Here are some images of the PC software (EasyScope 3.0) running in Linux under Wine, and some captures from scope.

If you get the USB running in Linux under Wine you are almost golden. Then you can easily connect Wireshark to the USB interface and trace the communication, which allows to re-engineer the protocol they use.

If you only get USB running under Windows, then USB sniffing is a little bit problematic. The free sniffers like Snoopy Pro are rather bad and tend to fail, and the commercials aren't much better (but more expensive).
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Offline vtl

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2011, 08:31:00 PM »
Woah did they provide you with that international mains plug adapter? Doesn't have earth and is one of those non polarized plugs. So you can plug it in with the adapter and the chassis can be live? Hope you're just using a proper IEC cable
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2011, 09:28:13 AM »
hehe who need Linux :P

There are some Blackfin dev board having same USB chip, look for isp1362bd. There are also some Linux drivers,
i think with some trick it will work for you.

Hum I don't know, the Linux come out of the box with the isp1362-hcd - ISP1362 HCD (Host Controller Driver) for USB , but it is only to work as host, working as a peripheral it's probably another history.

I really didn't spend time looking at it, so I may be wrong.

About support in Linux for USB peripherals that use isp1362bd may exist, I just didn't know any.
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2011, 09:46:24 AM »
Can you do a full lsusb -v and show the output? I would be interested in in seeing if they use a known USB class / sub class. This enhances the chance to get a kernel driver for it. And even if there isn't a kernel driver, if they use a standardized class you can get the documentation from usb.org, which opens the way for an own driver (typical in user space, which isn't too difficult to do).

Code: [Select]
$ lsusb -v -d f4ec:ee38
Bus 005 Device 002: ID f4ec:ee38 Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies Digital Storage Oscilloscope
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0xf4ec Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies
  idProduct          0xee38 Digital Storage Oscilloscope
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 Siglent TechCo., Ltd.     
  iProduct                2 USB Digital Oscilloscope
  iSerial                 0
  bNumConfigurations      1

No luck  :(

If you get the USB running in Linux under Wine you are almost golden. Then you can easily connect Wireshark to the USB interface and trace the communication, which allows to re-engineer the protocol they use.

If you only get USB running under Windows, then USB sniffing is a little bit problematic. The free sniffers like Snoopy Pro are rather bad and tend to fail, and the commercials aren't much better (but more expensive).

About re-engineer the USB protocol, I'm not saying that is not possible or hard, just don't know if is worth the trouble, probably the rs232 it's more productive, you don't need drivers like USB, just understand the protocol and make a GUI application for it.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 09:49:57 AM by bxs »
 

Offline bxs

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Re: ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2011, 09:59:49 AM »
Woah did they provide you with that international mains plug adapter? Doesn't have earth and is one of those non polarized plugs. So you can plug it in with the adapter and the chassis can be live? Hope you're just using a proper IEC cable

Don't worry, that adapter, can't even be used, look that the photo, don't even know why they sent it ;-)
 


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