ATTEN ADS 1102CAL photos

[bxs]

Hi,

[ivan747]

Welcome to the forum!
Any thoughts about the quality of the scope? At first glance it looks like a competitor of the Rigol DS1052E. I will take a more in depth look at this scope and compare it to the Rigol.

[bxs]

Some more 

[bxs]

Welcome to the forum!
Any thoughts about the quality of the scope? At first glance it looks like a competitor of the Rigol DS1052E. I will take a more in depth look at this scope and compare it to the Rigol.

Not really sure, have it for some days, but didn't test it yet  , lack of time.

I need a scope to have here at home, and just searched to cheap ones, this one come already at 100MHz 1Gsps, and a bigger LCD, the RIGOL comes at 50MHz, so...

The same scope exist with at least another brand name, so, the same story, Chinese clones clones clones clones 

[armandas]

Interesting fuse on the PSU board. I wonder what its current rating is..

[mikeselectricstuff]

Interesting fuse on the PSU board. I wonder what its current rating is..

Is there another fuse, e.g. at the mains inlet?

[tinhead]

this is actually the new PCB revision using Altery Cyclone IV already, which from FPGA speed7stability, clock jitter and waveformdistortion didn't really matter because Cyclone III and Cyclone IV
are not different in this category, but the board is a universal board for CAL and CML model - so with additional SRAM chip and (probably) different firmware you can "update it" to CML model.

About the cloning thigns - actually most chinese DSOs are using almost the same input stage (from 40 to 300MHz), there is not reason why they should
not do this, that's not cloning at all. Sure Atten CAL/CML board looks very similar to Rigol E board (except the LCD controller whish need to be different due LCD size)
but hey, that's only piece of silicon, the programming matters (FPGA, CPLD, DSP), there are billions of way to win or screw up the DSO design.

[saturation]

Thanks for taking the tear downs,  it'll take a while to study the pics.  I noticed the name Siglent on the PCB, a brand Atten tried to push but it seemed to go nowhere; Atten doesn't bother erase the chip markings, making it easier to identify.

[tinhead]

btw, there is one important difference between Rigol and ATTEN CAL/CML - ATTEN doen NOT use EEPROM connected
to DSP, so potential hack by replacing the whole firmware could be much easier .. of course if you get somewhere
ATTEN firmware (CML or higher bw CAL models)

[bxs]

Interesting fuse on the PSU board. I wonder what its current rating is..

Well, I also had problems trying to figure that, don't know why 

Is there another fuse, e.g. at the mains inlet?

Yes, you must have some powers 

[bxs]

(...)the board is a universal board for CAL and CML model - so with additional SRAM chip and (probably) different firmware you can "update it" to CML model.
(...)the programming matters (FPGA, CPLD, DSP), there are billions of way to win or screw up the DSO design.

Probably in CML board the IC footprint right of FPGA is populated.

And I'm with you at the programming thing.

btw, there is one important difference between Rigol and ATTEN CAL/CML - ATTEN doen NOT use EEPROM connected
to DSP, so potential hack by replacing the whole firmware could be much easier .. of course if you get somewhere
ATTEN firmware (CML or higher bw CAL models)

About firmwares I can't find them in web, maybe my fault...

[bxs]

Thanks for taking the tear downs,  it'll take a while to study the pics.  I noticed the name Siglent on the PCB, a brand Atten tried to push but it seemed to go nowhere; Atten doesn't bother erase the chip markings, making it easier to identify.

One of the things I wanted to know, were the references of ADCs, but no luck, they removed it 

Probably they are using slow rated ADCs...

[Richard W.]

Nice pictures, but build quality doesn't impress me really.

What means the symbol on picture 14.jpg between the CE and the crossed recycle bin?

[Bored@Work]

What means the symbol on picture 14.jpg between the CE and the crossed recycle bin?

Chinese EFUP label. In this case 30 years of "Environment Friendly Use Period" before hazardous substances are likely to leak out of the equipment.

[Mechatrommer]

nice scope. that dodgy fuse can take something at least 10~20A by the look.

[tinhead]

One of the things I wanted to know, were the references of ADCs, but no luck, they removed it 
Probably they are using slow rated ADCs...

probably, not that AD9288-100 costs much more than the -40, but you if a manufacturer (like Rigol or ATTEN)
save money but cutting (or actually not installing) proper shielding between PSU and main PCB then you
can assume that the ADCs are cheap once too.

Probably in CML board the IC footprint right of FPGA is populated.

right, IS61LPS51236A-200TQLI, thats about 25$ where the price diff to CML is about 150$. However, before you (or someone else) start to think about potential hack one need to be done:
- there is CPLD on bottom side of the PCB, if address counter for SRAM is done by CPLD you can't hack because ATTEN probably
programmed it different, if within FPGA then CML firmware will be the solution as it contains FPGA deisgn file.
So in principle someone having CAL need to check if the SRAM address pins are connected to CPLD.

[bxs]

probably, not that AD9288-100 costs much more than the -40, but you if a manufacturer (like Rigol or ATTEN)
save money but cutting (or actually not installing) proper shielding between PSU and main PCB then you
can assume that the ADCs are cheap once too.

You are right, everything is cheap, even the price of the scope, the main reason for my choice 
What I really don't like is having the ADC's reference erased, I know that is a common practice, but I hate it.

[bxs]

Some more images, now about PC interface/software

About USB, the lsusb give me this:
ID f4ec:ee38 Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies Digital Storage Oscilloscope

As expected no suport for Linux.

But you are thinking, "dude forget Linux, simple use Windows", right?
Humm... I'm not so sure.

The good part: exist a driver
The bad part: is only 32bit, no 64bit version, WTF!!!

These days I'm a Linux user, but I have a partition with windows 7, but guess what, yes, yes 64bit, so useless.
I end up going to a prehistoric desktop whit Windows XP 32bit and tested it, but, guess what, conection is slowwww.

So what? I'm quite smart, so I managed to put it working in Windows 64bit machine and also on Linux, with the more prehistoric RS232.

Here are some images of the PC software (EasyScope 3.0) running in Linux under Wine, and some captures from scope.

[Alex]

Is there another fuse, e.g. at the mains inlet?

Yes, you must have some powers 

When it comes to fuses on the mains inlet, indeed he does, he is British! 

[tinhead]

hehe who need Linux

There are some Blackfin dev board having same USB chip, look for isp1362bd. There are also some Linux drivers,
i think with some trick it will work for you.

[Bored@Work]

About USB, the lsusb give me this:
ID f4ec:ee38 Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies Digital Storage Oscilloscope

As expected no suport for Linux.

Bad. Can you do a full lsusb -v and show the output? I would be interested in in seeing if they use a known USB class / sub class. This enhances the chance to get a kernel driver for it. And even if there isn't a kernel driver, if they use a standardized class you can get the documentation from usb.org, which opens the way for an own driver (typical in user space, which isn't too difficult to do).

Here are some images of the PC software (EasyScope 3.0) running in Linux under Wine, and some captures from scope.

If you get the USB running in Linux under Wine you are almost golden. Then you can easily connect Wireshark to the USB interface and trace the communication, which allows to re-engineer the protocol they use.

If you only get USB running under Windows, then USB sniffing is a little bit problematic. The free sniffers like Snoopy Pro are rather bad and tend to fail, and the commercials aren't much better (but more expensive).

[vtl]

Woah did they provide you with that international mains plug adapter? Doesn't have earth and is one of those non polarized plugs. So you can plug it in with the adapter and the chassis can be live? Hope you're just using a proper IEC cable

[bxs]

hehe who need Linux

There are some Blackfin dev board having same USB chip, look for isp1362bd. There are also some Linux drivers,
i think with some trick it will work for you.

Hum I don't know, the Linux come out of the box with the isp1362-hcd - ISP1362 HCD (Host Controller Driver) for USB , but it is only to work as host, working as a peripheral it's probably another history.

I really didn't spend time looking at it, so I may be wrong.

About support in Linux for USB peripherals that use isp1362bd may exist, I just didn't know any.

[bxs]

Can you do a full lsusb -v and show the output? I would be interested in in seeing if they use a known USB class / sub class. This enhances the chance to get a kernel driver for it. And even if there isn't a kernel driver, if they use a standardized class you can get the documentation from usb.org, which opens the way for an own driver (typical in user space, which isn't too difficult to do).

Code: [Select]

$ lsusb -v -d f4ec:ee38
Bus 005 Device 002: ID f4ec:ee38 Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies Digital Storage Oscilloscope
Device Descriptor:
  bLength                18
  bDescriptorType         1
  bcdUSB               1.10
  bDeviceClass            0 (Defined at Interface level)
  bDeviceSubClass         0
  bDeviceProtocol         0
  bMaxPacketSize0        64
  idVendor           0xf4ec Atten Electronics / Siglent Technologies
  idProduct          0xee38 Digital Storage Oscilloscope
  bcdDevice            1.00
  iManufacturer           1 Siglent TechCo., Ltd.     
  iProduct                2 USB Digital Oscilloscope
  iSerial                 0
  bNumConfigurations      1

No luck 

If you get the USB running in Linux under Wine you are almost golden. Then you can easily connect Wireshark to the USB interface and trace the communication, which allows to re-engineer the protocol they use.

If you only get USB running under Windows, then USB sniffing is a little bit problematic. The free sniffers like Snoopy Pro are rather bad and tend to fail, and the commercials aren't much better (but more expensive).

About re-engineer the USB protocol, I'm not saying that is not possible or hard, just don't know if is worth the trouble, probably the rs232 it's more productive, you don't need drivers like USB, just understand the protocol and make a GUI application for it.

[bxs]

Woah did they provide you with that international mains plug adapter? Doesn't have earth and is one of those non polarized plugs. So you can plug it in with the adapter and the chassis can be live? Hope you're just using a proper IEC cable

Don't worry, that adapter, can't even be used, look that the photo, don't even know why they sent it ;-)

[Bored@Work]

No luck 

Uhm, that doesn't look good. No Configuration Descriptor following the Device Descriptor? Did you run lsusb as root?

About re-engineer the USB protocol, I'm not saying that is not possible or hard, just don't know if is worth the trouble,

It is a hobby. It is supposed to keep you busy and of the streets, it doesn't have to make sense.

[bxs]

Uhm, that doesn't look good. No Configuration Descriptor following the Device Descriptor? Did you run lsusb as root?

Yes, I also tried as root.

It is a hobby. It is supposed to keep you busy and of the streets, it doesn't have to make sense.

Haha, OK, you are right, for now no free time even almost to breathe, but seems a good idea, I don't develope PC software for several years, and in that time all was in Windows land 

[RichardSim]

Similar to Agilent rebranding Rigol units as their low-end scopes, LeCroy rebrand Atten units as their low-end (WaveAce) scopes - and unlike Atten, LeCroy provide 64-bit drivers for Windows.

You can grab LeCroy's EasyScope installer here:
http://www.lecroy.com/Support/SoftwareDownload/EasyScope.aspx?capid=106&mid=533&smid=

When you install it, the drivers will be put in the EasyScope directory (along with a handy installer) - you can just run that installer, then uninstall EasyScope and go back to the Atten version (the one that came with my ADS1102CAL was newer than the one on LeCroy's website).

Another tip with EasyScope is that the Atten version that came with my scope was Chinese only; there is a set.ini file in the EasyScope directory that lets you change the apps language to English (along with branding and target scope model - it's all documented in the file).

Interestingly, LeCroy advertise the WaveAce scopes as having 2GSa/s (1GSa/s per channel), while Atten lists the same models as 1GSa/s (or 500MSa/s in dual-channel). I'm wondering if there's some crippling going on there. This is for models before the ADS 1102CAL though, as it's new and it looks like LeCroy hasn't picked it up yet (if they ever do).

[bxs]

@ RichardSim

I tried to found rebranding of ATTEN, one way a found of doing it, was findings scopes that use EasyScope, and I made this topic https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4104.0

As I said there "Also some of these scopes have only 32bit drivers, others have also 64bit, are things like that that made me curious."

But never touched or tested it, nice to ear your experience with your ATTEN scope.

[saturation]

I've heard this and seen the exterior photos, but is there any photos of WaveAce PCBs with Atten or its other names, silk screened on the PCB?

Similar to Agilent rebranding Rigol units as their low-end scopes, LeCroy rebrand Atten units as their low-end (WaveAce) scopes - and unlike Atten, LeCroy provide 64-bit drivers for Windows.

[Zero999]

Thanks for taking the tear downs,  it'll take a while to study the pics.  I noticed the name Siglent on the PCB, a brand Atten tried to push but it seemed to go nowhere; Atten doesn't bother erase the chip markings, making it easier to identify.

Hmm, Siligent seem to be better value for money.

Compare the two 'scopes.
Atten ADS1102CAL
http://www.genetroncorp.com/datasheets/Atten/ADS1000CCALCML%20Series.pdf

Siglent SDS1102CM
http://www.siglent.com/en/upload/201042363208641.pdf

As far as I can tell, both are pretty similar, except the Atten has 40k of storage and the Silgent has 2M of storage.

I found the Atten on ebay for £229, the Silgent was £31 more but it's not much more expensive considering the extra memory. The Atten does have one advantage: a nice wide screen: 480x234 as opposed to 320x234 but the vastly greater memory is probably worth much more than an extra 160 pixels of display width.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ATTEN-ADS1102CAL-100MHz-Digital-Oscilloscope-1102CAL-/150620675417?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2311b11d59
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Siglent-100mhz-Storage-Oscilloscope-SDS1102CM-1G-/320721370009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aac7bbb99

[Kozmyk]

Seems you CAN have both the wide Screen AND the 2Mpts memory, but you have to pay another $100 or so for it.
Enter the ATTEN ADS1102CML
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ADS1102CML-100MHz-1G-2Mpts-Digital-Oscilloscope-7-LCD-/220797273557

I'm doing a bit of PWM control, PPM and a bit of simple logic stuff, so I convinced myself I need a scope that I can capture a bit of data stream with, rightly or wrongly.

I'd almost finished choosing a new DSO and had settled on the now ubiquitous RIGOL DS1052E, rejecting other budget makes for their short Memory depth. Like the UNI-T UTD2102CEL 2 x 600Mpts and others with even less memory.

Along comes the Siglent SDS1102CM 2Mpts and the ATTEN ADS 1102CML 2 Mpts to confuse the issue.

There again, internet shopping is a hobby in itself isn't it. 8^)

[radhoo]

I just got the scope shipped today, and must say I love it!

My first tests included only calibrating the probes with the built in 1KHz generator, and walking through the many menu functions.

I also installed the PC software , and got a few screen captures from the scope, via the back USB cable. This connector can also be used to connect a printer directly, but I didn't test that yet.

The front USB connector I tested with a memory stick, and was able to browse the files on the stick, create a new dir, and save data in multiple formats.

Everything works good, and so far it provided a very good first impression.

[Colin]

Thanks for taking the tear downs,  it'll take a while to study the pics.  I noticed the name Siglent on the PCB, a brand Atten tried to push but it seemed to go nowhere; Atten doesn't bother erase the chip markings, making it easier to identify.

Hmm, Siligent seem to be better value for money.

Compare the two 'scopes.
Atten ADS1102CAL
http://www.genetroncorp.com/datasheets/Atten/ADS1000CCALCML%20Series.pdf

Siglent SDS1102CM
http://www.siglent.com/en/upload/201042363208641.pdf

As far as I can tell, both are pretty similar, except the Atten has 40k of storage and the Silgent has 2M of storage.

I found the Atten on ebay for £229, the Silgent was £31 more but it's not much more expensive considering the extra memory. The Atten does have one advantage: a nice wide screen: 480x234 as opposed to 320x234 but the vastly greater memory is probably worth much more than an extra 160 pixels of display width.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ATTEN-ADS1102CAL-100MHz-Digital-Oscilloscope-1102CAL-/150620675417?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2311b11d59
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Siglent-100mhz-Storage-Oscilloscope-SDS1102CM-1G-/320721370009?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aac7bbb99

Siglent is the ODM for ATTEN at first and then Lecroy/BK, its website says "The Biggest ODM in the World" God knows whether it's true or not

[sdaau]

Hi all,

Sorry for resurrecting an old(er) thread - however, this was the only page that I got, when looking for the ID f4ec:ee38, which is also emitted from the ADS1202CL+.

So, I wanted to notify the forum that I had just released an application that utilises libusb-1.0, and can be used to fetch data from (at least) the ADS1202CL+ - please check:

http://sdaaubckp.sourceforge.net/attenload

Given what the thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/easyscope-list-of-digital-oscilloscopes-that-use-it/ reports, it is possible this application could interface with other brands/models as well - but it's down to people to try for themselves...

Anyways - I'm not likely to maintain the code much, as it already does what I want it to do; but now that it is released, maybe it will be useful to others.

Cheers!

[saturation]

Thanks sdaau for sharing, also your notes point out some key firmware issues in the Atten.

[bxs]

Hi all,

Sorry for resurrecting an old(er) thread - however, this was the only page that I got, when looking for the ID f4ec:ee38, which is also emitted from the ADS1202CL+.

So, I wanted to notify the forum that I had just released an application that utilises libusb-1.0, and can be used to fetch data from (at least) the ADS1202CL+ - please check:

http://sdaaubckp.sourceforge.net/attenload

Given what the thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/easyscope-list-of-digital-oscilloscopes-that-use-it/ reports, it is possible this application could interface with other brands/models as well - but it's down to people to try for themselves...

Anyways - I'm not likely to maintain the code much, as it already does what I want it to do; but now that it is released, maybe it will be useful to others.

Cheers!

Hi sdaau,

Thanks for your work, one of this days when I have some free time I will give it a try 

[soren]

Some observations comparing these pictures to my new Siglent, which is the same design:

The ADC's have had their markings ground off in exactly the same fashion.

The Siglent has different power wiring - IEC socket on the side, power switch on top, soldered onto the PSU board along with a nice little fuse holder. Rather less accessible overall, but probably slightly cheaper.

However, the Siglent has the JTAG header populated, which would make it a more convenient choice for any hacking.

[bxs]

@sdaau

You can add ATTEN ADS 1102CAL to your list, attenload seems to work fine, generate  .csv, .gnuplot, .png and .ssf files 

Here is the PNG file:

[Stephen Hill]

Hi bxs,

Could I please ask what you think about your Atten ADS1102CAL?

Many Thanks
Stephen

[soren]

I've heard this and seen the exterior photos, but is there any photos of WaveAce PCBs with Atten or its other names, silk screened on the PCB?

LeCroy Waveace 112 ATTEN ADS1102CM

[bxs]

Hi bxs,

Could I please ask what you think about your Atten ADS1102CAL?

Many Thanks
Stephen

Hi Stephen,

I think you are asking if Atten ADS1102CAL it's a good buy, so I will try to answer that.

It's a hard and at the same time a simple question, it's hard because we always want the most for the less($ €) and is simple because all those cheap DSOs are just toys 

So in my opinion for just a few hundred $, let say 3 or 4 you are buying a toy not a real thing.

In my case I wanted something to have at home that could give me basic functions, sometimes just gathering dust and it needed to be cheap and ATTEN checked the requirements.

When I bought it, the only thing at +- the same price was the rigol(50MHz), this ATTEN was 100MHz and had a better LCD. Note that I knew about the hack of rigol 50 to 100MHz, but I didn't want additional work to get the 100MHz.

About my experience with my ATTEN, it as been good for the most part, what I really don't like are some bugs, that in rare situations force me to restart the scope.

I read about people with same/similar ATTEN scopes with the same problems, and some of them got a firmware update for fixing those, I also tried to get one once, but is was just a nasty experience, lets say that I contacted ATTEN with all the data about my scope and they replied asking again for exactly the data that I had already send, it was so stupid that I simple quite trying 

So this days if someone buy a new ATTEN they probably get it with new firmware, but it's a gamble.

The Rigol seems better in support, but you should never expect real support for cheap scopes, most of the times what you buy is what you will get

To some up, at the end of the day the scope as been doing the job , note that I stop looking for scopes since I bought mine, I'm sure that these days exist better ones, from ATTEN and others.

[soren]

About my experience with my ATTEN, it as been good for the most part, what I really don't like are some bugs, that in rare situations force me to restart the scope.

I read about people with same/similar ATTEN scopes with the same problems, and some of them got a firmware update for fixing those, I also tried to get one once, but is was just a nasty experience, lets say that I contacted ATTEN with all the data about my scope and they replied asking again for exactly the data that I had already send, it was so stupid that I simple quite trying 

Siglent now have firmware updates for download on their web site. That was pretty much what made me get the Siglent branded version.

Also, for anyone considering any of the Siglent/Atten scopes, I'd strongly suggest getting one of the widescreen models, even though the rest of the hardware platform is practically identical, simply because the -L series firmware appears to still be maintained whereas the latest date I saw for one of the older models was several years old.

[sdaau]

@bxs:

You can add ATTEN ADS 1102CAL to your list, attenload seems to work fine, generate  .csv, .gnuplot, .png and .ssf files 

Many thanks for your report - glad to hear that

I just opened a new thread for such reports:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects-designs-and-technical-stuff/attenload-please-report-here-if-your-atten-%28or-related%29-scope-works/

... so as not to derail this one further

Cheers!

[bithead9]

I found the firmware update for the Atten ADS1102CAL and others.  You can download directly from Atten China:
http://www.atten.com.cn/Download/soft/shiboqi/Update/
Pick your model and download!   My unit information was:
ADS1102CAl
s/w 3.01.01.21
h/w: 3-41-1.61

I updated to 3.01.01.31R16 (from the above link).  Works great.    No problems updating etc.  So now if folks cross flash to other units maybe can go BACK?  I have not tried the other firmwares.

UPDATE: 05/03/2014
I have the following firmware from around 3/2014 before ATTEN took down the links. 
If anyone needs them please PM or post back here and I can upload them somewhere.

ADS1000CAL Series_Software Version 3.0_V100R003B01D01P31R16.zip

ADS1000CL+ Series_Software Version 3.0_V100R003B01D01P31R16.zip

ADS1000CML_V100R003B01D01P31R16.ZIP

ADS1202CML_.zip
UPDATED since the ATTEN site is down 

Here is the 1102CAL version:
http://www.4shared.com/zip/Yhwrgji5ba/ADS1000CAL_Series_Software_Ver.html
And the CAL+
http://www.4shared.com/zip/Ci7Dcsliba/ADS1000CL_Series_Software_Vers.html

The CML:
http://www.4shared.com/zip/ldNUaDV3ba/ADS1000CML_V100R003B01D01P31R1.html

And lastly the 1202CML:
http://www.4shared.com/zip/fR7fjs1jce/ADS1202CML_.html

Hope this helps folks!  PM me if you cannot access.

[komp432]

Please new firmware to the atten 1102cal. I have a version of h / w: 3-41-1.61, s / w 3.01.01.21.
Please inclusion of an active link or send email.
thank you

[bithead9]

PM me if you need the firmware. 

[bithead9]

So just for the record.  I updated my ATTEN ADS1102CAL to the latest Siglent firmware.  Here are the steps I followed:
1) update the firmware to SDS1000CNL_SSP_V100R005B01D02P13.ADS
2) update the Siglent_CNL.cfg that comes with the firmware
3) Follow the instructions in the Readme.bmp (also comes with the firmware)
Once update completed then:
4) Update the firmware to SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.ADS
this is the latest version as of 03/02/2017

Summary of Changes: fixed some bugs1.
including trigger jitter problem.
If use LongMemory and if timebase is 250us/div or less there is a jitter.
If change to Normal memory no problem, if switch to
Long Memory it appears.

See attached photo of the before and after. My hardware version is: 3-41-1.61

[Electro Detective]

See attached photo of the before and after. My hardware version is: 3-41-1.61

Both photos are 'before' shots, please post the 'after' if possible

...it took me a minute to work it out 

[bithead9]

Here are the AFTER pics.  Sorry for that delay.  Life comes at you fast!

[Tryel]

Here is how to increase the oscilloscope memory - https://youtu.be/EFNX3YjZdV4