Bench multimeter reccomendation & My last bad experience

[Watcher]

Hi all,

Ive been looking for a bench DMM 5.5 digit for some time now below the  600 euro ceiling.  I am trying to decide between the Rigol dm3058e  and the Siglnet SDM 3055.
 I already  have a Rigol power supply and MSO and am very happy with both of them.
On the other hand I had a bad experience  with a Siglent function generator  last year. It was bought  brand new from an online shop but failed  after a few months. It got stack on startup on the initial siglent screen. Siglent refused to give me a warranty repair  because  it turned out that i bought it from a non authorised  dealer!
I eventually had to sell it as  broken on ebay for 50 euros and the person who bought it managed to fix it by re installing firmware  and bootloader that got corrupt.
What now scares me off Siglent is that i ve read other posts of people , even in this forum, facing similar problems with their equipment getting stuck on the initial screen.
I do however prefer the siglent's DMM with the tft screen compared to the Rigol small LCD which looks..outdated!

Any reccomendations,  suggestions welcome.

[4CX35000]

Are you only interested in new ?

[Watcher]

Are you only interested in new ?

I would also consider used if its a  fairly recent model and the price is attractive. Wouldnt go for vintage gear though. ....

[nctnico]

For your budget there you can buy a new GW Instek, Keithley or Keysight 5.5 digit bench DMM. No TFT displays but all these brands are well established.

[4CX35000]

Are you only interested in new ?

I would also consider used if its a  fairly recent model and the price is attractive. Wouldnt go for vintage gear though. ....

I suggest you buy from a proper dealer if you have been burnt before. Multimeters in the 600 EU range are all reasonably good and reliable. Best thing I would suggest is to work out what you would want from a multimeter and see what is available from a good quality dealer. Farnell, RS Components, Mouser for example.

As an example for ideas, do you want True RMS, high current measurement, low resistance or high resistance. USB ports on the rear to connect with a computer or a multimeter with high counts or is 5000 enough.

Here I have TTI 1906 multimeters which are probably 15 years old now and work fine for me as they have a RS232 output on the rear which give me some access to functions, but if I was to look today for a new product, I would probably opt for a instrument which can interface fully with Labview.

[Watcher]

Thanks for the input 4CX35000.
Yes, iam looking to buy something from a proper dealer now if going for brand new.
Still however,  the fact that this fault happened to more people puzzles me!

As for specs, mind you i am currently using a Fluke 289 which is a brilliant  meter other than its battery life. So i thought of getting a bench dmm as i am tired of changing batteries  every month and having  the meter going to auto-standby . A bit more accuracy could also come handy so i thought of going to 5.5 digits  .

[beanflying]

For that budget you would get an Agilent 34401A with a cal certificate and change from the US. Plenty on the bay of evil from Cal Labs if that gives you more peace of mind. Or take pot luck for a lot less

[GreyWoolfe]

I don't know about shipping and VAT, but on evilbay there is a new GW Instek GDM 8251A for $400 USD.  You could inquire what shipping and VAT would be to you.  Here is the link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GW-Instek-GDM8251A-120000-Counts-5-1-2-Digit-Dual-Display-Digital-Multimeter-NEW/322368542666?hash=item4b0ea997ca:g:qxwAAOSwIaFZGwCH

I bought 1 for under $100 USD when they were first listed after ITT shut down and there were plenty of them.  Used ones can still be had under $200 USD.

[nctnico]

For the price in the Ebay listing you can nearly buy the new GW Instek 5.5 digit model with better specs and warranty.

[Neomys Sapiens]

If you aren't in a hurry, 600€ could yield you a 6.5digit Prema or Schlumberger. It will outlast any newer one, I think.

[Watcher]

If you aren't in a hurry, 600€ could yield you a 6.5digit Prema or Schlumberger. It will outlast any newer one, I think.

Where can this be purchased from?

[Watcher]

For that budget you would get an Agilent 34401A with a cal certificate and change from the US. Plenty on the bay of evil from Cal Labs if that gives you more peace of mind. Or take pot luck for a lot less

There are definitely  much more choices inthe US!
 Having it shipped in Europe plus taxes  raises the total cost to the point that is not worth it anymore...

[Watcher]

For the price in the Ebay listing you can nearly buy the new GW Instek 5.5 digit model with better specs and warranty.

Which model are you referring  to?

Ebay though  is not exactly an authorised dealer... do read my first post regarding my last experience with Siglent!

[tautech]

For the price in the Ebay listing you can nearly buy the new GW Instek 5.5 digit model with better specs and warranty.

Which model are you referring  to?

Ebay though  is not exactly an authorised dealer... do read my first post regarding my last experience with Siglent!

Shame you didn't find EEVblog earlier as Siglent themselves and a # of us dealers are here too to help in any way we can.

There where some issues with older firmware that would cause a unit to fail booting however most of these incidences have been remedied with new firmware. Only a couple of series of instruments were affected.
Proof of purchase the main determining factor with warranty claims IF no other purchase/warranty records are available.
It seems you're in the EU but where ? 

[janoc]

For that budget you would get an Agilent 34401A with a cal certificate and change from the US. Plenty on the bay of evil from Cal Labs if that gives you more peace of mind. Or take pot luck for a lot less

For that budget her could have even three 34401As with a still valid cal ... I have got one for $200 and another was offered to me for the same price, because the seller couldn't find a buyer for it. The only fix needed was replacing a faded VFD display on it (a well known problem with these if they were used as a part of automated test gear).

[nctnico]

For the price in the Ebay listing you can nearly buy the new GW Instek 5.5 digit model with better specs and warranty.

Which model are you referring  to?

The GDM-8351 for example. You can buy these from many equipment dealers and parts sellers like Farnell.

[tautech]

For the price in the Ebay listing you can nearly buy the new GW Instek 5.5 digit model with better specs and warranty.

Which model are you referring  to?

The GDM-8351 for example. You can buy these from many equipment dealers and parts sellers like Farnell.

Even RS have a reasonable selection:
https://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236465/

It's a rebranded Siglent SDM3055 that some might confuse with a KS.

[Insatman]

@ Watcher.  I bought a new DM3058E last may of this year.   It's been a good meter.  The display is bright and the meter works well.   I also own two used HP34401A meters I bought on Ebay.  Both HP34401A meters track with 1 or 2 LSD counts of each other.  The Rigol reads about -300uV, still within spec using a 10V reference as opposed to the HP34401A which has never been out more than 100uV. 

The main advantage of the DM3058E is the additional analysis features but it lacks the superior performance and resolution of the HP34401A meters. 

I can't speak for the Siglent meter, as I have no experience with it.   I do own a new Siglent Spectrum Analyzer and I am very pleased with it. 

If you desire a new meter for whatever reason, I'd be sure to check out what is available from Keysight, Rigol and Siglent. 
My only regret with the DM3058E was not seriously considering getting it's bigger brother the DM3068 6.5 digit model, but is was way more expensive.

[janoc]

For that budget her could have even three 34401As with a still valid cal ...

That probably will be a very old one and who knows what has happened to it. If I'm to buy a 34401A, I would buy at least a new Agilent version with rounded rubber button.

I have to say I'm a very beginner in repairing test gears, so I won't take any risk if it will die on me. $750 for one that can live another 10 years is better than $300 down the drain.

Sure, I got perhaps lucky - it was a local French seller and the meters came from a test rack (that's why the poor VFD readability - it was likely on 24/7 for years). If it didn't have a valid calibration sticker from the last year, I wouldn't have bought it neither. But seller saying it works, the item is visually in good shape and the calibration is recent means a good chance that it is actually working as expected (and it does, at least when compared with my other meters - don't have a reference good enough to verify a 6.5 digit meter accuracy).

It is actually the more recent revision (uses the more recent display module that is still available), but the old HP branding and square buttons. OTOH, these meters are super well documented and fairly easy to maintain/repair if anything goes wrong with them unlike the more recent gear chock full of unobtanium ASICs. They are both reliable and there are plenty of spare parts around as they are being replaced, as it is a very old design. So there I wouldn't worry too much. But as always with used gear off eBay - do your homework. If you want reliability and not have to repair things, one needs to buy new.

But for someone looking for a cheap bench meter they could do much worse than getting one of these, even the old model.

[Helix70]

I have an Agilent branded 34401A with the square buttons. Until now I didn't even realise the newer ones had rounded buttons. So there you go.

[Watcher]

@ Watcher.  I bought a new DM3058E last may of this year.   It's been a good meter.  The display is bright and the meter works well.   I also own two used HP34401A meters I bought on Ebay.  Both HP34401A meters track with 1 or 2 LSD counts of each other.  The Rigol reads about -300uV, still within spec using a 10V reference as opposed to the HP34401A which has never been out more than 100uV. 

The main advantage of the DM3058E is the additional analysis features but it lacks the superior performance and resolution of the HP34401A meters. 

I can't speak for the Siglent meter, as I have no experience with it.   I do own a new Siglent Spectrum Analyzer and I am very pleased with it. 

If you desire a new meter for whatever reason, I'd be sure to check out what is available from Keysight, Rigol and Siglent. 
My only regret with the DM3058E was not seriously considering getting it's bigger brother the DM3068 6.5 digit model, but is was way more expensive.

Well Keysight seems to be kver my budget when it comes to brand new. Thats why i am juggling between the other two options. I dont think i have an application, for the forseable future, for 6.5 dig either to justify the extra cost.

[Watcher]

If you can afford the time for maintenance and the money for calibration, you can consider a used Keysight 34401A or Keithley 2015THD or Keithley 2000. Fluke 8845A is also great, but it's a slight bit more expensive.

I dont have much repair experience so i d rather  buy something that works...,

[Watcher]

For the price in the Ebay listing you can nearly buy the new GW Instek 5.5 digit model with better specs and warranty.

Which model are you referring  to?

Ebay though  is not exactly an authorised dealer... do read my first post regarding my last experience with Siglent!

Shame you didn't find EEVblog earlier as Siglent themselves and a # of us dealers are here too to help in any way we can.

There where some issues with older firmware that would cause a unit to fail booting however most of these incidences have been remedied with new firmware. Only a couple of series of instruments were affected.
Proof of purchase the main determining factor with warranty claims IF no other purchase/warranty records are available.
It seems you're in the EU but where ? 

Thats true, however i did try my lack both direct wirh Siglent  and through a dealer.Sigkent said that they had to change the motherboard. .which at the end proved to be not true...

And of course i had proof of purchase as the utem was payed via PayPal. Their issue however was that it was bought from a non authorised online  dealer.
I am in Cyprus by the way..

[tautech]

Shame you didn't find EEVblog earlier as Siglent themselves and a # of us dealers are here too to help in any way we can.

There were some issues with older firmware that would cause a unit to fail booting however most of these incidences have been remedied with new firmware. Only a couple of series of instruments were affected.
Proof of purchase the main determining factor with warranty claims IF no other purchase/warranty records are available.
It seems you're in the EU but where ? 

Thats true, however i did try my lack both direct wirh Siglent  and through a dealer.Sigkent said that they had to change the motherboard. .which at the end proved to be not true...

There are some button bash remedies but it's mostly MB replacement as the factory doesn't want owners to be attempting firmware/software fixes for fear of ruining the unit further.
There has been a gradual rollout of firmware that allows for a USB boot remedy and many models now incorporate this so that owners don't get caught with boot frozen units. AFAIK the factory needs be contacted for the USB recovery file.

So yes, it's not true but it's the safest course of action for the factory to follow.
In the past we have organised replacement MB's for members and the factory will supply them at a reasonable charge.

[Macbeth]

On the other hand I had a bad experience  with a Siglent function generator  last year. It was bought  brand new from an online shop but failed  after a few months. It got stack on startup on the initial siglent screen. Siglent refused to give me a warranty repair  because  it turned out that i bought it from a non authorised  dealer!
I eventually had to sell it as  broken on ebay for 50 euros and the person who bought it managed to fix it by re installing firmware  and bootloader that got corrupt.

I don't buy it. Nobody fixes something from an ebay bargain and then taunts the seller afterwards. 

What now scares me off Siglent is that i ve read other posts of people , even in this forum, facing similar problems with their equipment getting stuck on the initial screen.
I do however prefer the siglent's DMM with the tft screen compared to the Rigol small LCD which looks..outdated!

Any reccomendations,  suggestions welcome.

Rigol DM3058 and Siglent SDM3055 both use the same 2.5V 1ppm reference, MAX6325. The Rigol uses a cheaper AD7799 24 bit ADC that can only do 479 samples per second max (but in 5.5 digit mode will be more like 4.7). The Siglent uses an AD7190 24 bit ADC which is an order of magnitude faster and also an order of magnitude lower in noise.

More importantly, when the SDM3055 first came out it was ludicrously slow and this was obviously a firmware issue. Siglent have been very pro-active fixing their firmware and the latest iteration is excellent.

The Rigol DM3058 does NOT have any trend chart, despite having a histogram and recording history. The Siglent does and has a much bigger colour display for this too.

The Rigol doesn't have any kind of useable HOLD function, despite the manual explaining how it works just like the 34401A or Keithley 2000 meters, it simply does not work and those stupid buttons with flashing lights behind them for Run/Hold and Single trigger are useless. I got told by Rigol that "nobody else complained!"

Siglents version appears to work quite well and you can scroll in your history to see the trigger events etc.

As for SCPI/LXI/USBTMC - The Rigol 3058 is advertised as Agilent 34401 compatible. It simply is not whatsoever, there is a massive totally obvious bug with the READ? command that I pointed out to Rigol many years ago. Nothing has been done to fix it.

DM3058 is simply not fit for purpose. They abandoned it years ago but still sell it.

Choosing between them, I would buy the Siglent in a heartbeat.