Best 100MHz scope between $700-$800

[danfloun]

Hi guys,

I've been repairing TVs and various other gear for over a year now and I've been borrowing my friends old Tectronixs 100mhz scope which is okay. But I need to get my own now, and, although I would get a used analogue scope without hesitation, I have very limited space and my shelf won't accommodate the old size scopes.

So I was looking at the newer digital scopes like the Rigol DS1102e because they'll fit perfectly. But that scope is ageing a bit and wondered if there was anything better for around $700-$800. Sick of looking at damn scopes so thought I'd ask .

Thanks guys.

[olsenn]

Well, you can get either a DS100Z (can't remember the exact model) or DS2072 (Not DS2072A), both of which may be hacked to freely get all features. The latter scope goes to 200MHz and is all round better; however, it is only two channels whereas the DS1000Z is 4.

[Maturola]

+1 for the DS100Z if you want 4 channels, or the DS2072 if you are OK with =2 channels but a little better specs.

[Electro Fan]

+1 for the DS1000Z if you want 4 channels, or the DS2072 if you are OK with =2 channels but a little better specs.

+2 for the Rigol DS2072(with or without the A) if you only need 2 channels or the DS1000Z if you need 4 channels.  I have a 100MHz Tek analog scope which I have really enjoyed but after using a DS1104Z for just a couple weeks it's pretty clear that if I could only have one it would be difficult not to choose the Rigol.  On the other hand if you did have the space and you got a little bit lucky on the used market you could probably save a few $ and get a very nice Tek analog scope.  Depends on the features you need.  Tektronix did a fabulous job with analog scopes in their heyday and Rigol has done an excellent job with current DSO technology.

[echen1024]

With that budget, you could get an option 6/9 Tektronix 2467B. Sex on a stick!

[bingo600]

Well, you can get either a DS100Z (can't remember the exact model) or DS2072 (Not DS2072A), both of which may be hacked to freely get all features. The latter scope goes to 200MHz and is all round better; however, it is only two channels whereas the DS1000Z is 4.

Is the DS2072A "Non Hackable" ?

I was actually wondering about getting a DS2072(a) , but wants the 200Mhz.
How can one be sure to get a Non A ?

I'll prob. be getting one in EU (Batronix or ...)

/Bingo

[danfloun]

Thanks for the input guys.
I like the DS1104Z spec tbh.

I know its a stretch, major stretch, but anyone know of a scope (new/used) within that price bracket that has isolated inputs?
I may work around the size problem for that feature... I know its more common on portable or big bucks scopes.

[danfloun]

So looking at the spec further, I'm wondering if I'd see any benefit to getting the DS1404z over the DS1102E. I don't need 4 channels, the DS2*** is out of my price bracket a bit.

Is there really much difference between the DS1404z & DS1102E other than screen size and higher memory?
Most of the stuff I do is single channel anyway.

There also seems to be little information on the DS1404z online?

[rolycat]

Take a look at Dave's video comparing the capabilities of the DS1052E with the DS2072. A lot of the advantages of the DS2000 scopes also apply to the DS1000Z series:



Have you seen Dave's quick look at the DS1104Z in EEVBlog #522?

[danfloun]

Yeah I watched the #552.
But not that one, thanks.

[Mr Simpleton]

Well, you can get either a DS100Z (can't remember the exact model) or DS2072 (Not DS2072A), both of which may be hacked to freely get all features. The latter scope goes to 200MHz and is all round better; however, it is only two channels whereas the DS1000Z is 4.

Is the DS2072A "Non Hackable" ?

I was actually wondering about getting a DS2072(a) , but wants the 200Mhz.
How can one be sure to get a Non A ?

I'll prob. be getting one in EU (Batronix or ...)

/Bingo

Seems Silcon do stock the non-A... http://www.silcon.cz/ and he offers fast shipping and very nice support!

[AndersAnd]

Is the DS2072A "Non Hackable" ?

I think the only reason the 2000A series hasn't been hacked yet is because noone has uploaded a JTAG memory dump yet. So if you buy one and upload it it will probably be hacked too. The A model is still very new and not available in all markets yet. Don't think it's available in America or Europe yet.
I think only about 2 people have mentioned getting an A model in the "Sniffing the Rigol's internal I2C bus" topic and none of them have provided a JTAG memory dump.

Read cybernet's posts here on how to make a JTAG memory dump: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dg4000-a-firmware-investigation/

Uploading 2 different 2000A firmware versions might also be helpful, but I don't think 2 different versions are even available yet.

[bingo600]

@AA

That seems like the jtag layout , but what program is used urjtag ?
What jtag hw is used ?
Is the jtag for the BlackFin ?

/Bingo

[AndersAnd]

That seems like the jtag layout , but what program is used urjtag ?

Cybernet promised to do a writeup on how to do a JTAG memory dump
here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dg4000-a-firmware-investigation/msg285565/#msg285565
and here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dg4000-a-firmware-investigation/msg298338/#msg298338

So it's probably best to ask him for a guide in that topic. The topic is for DG4000 which has already been hacked so that's probably why he never to around to writing a guide, but the same method should apply for DS2000A.

What jtag hw is used ?

Any JTAG adapter listed here should work:
2.3.3. Supported JTAG adapters/cables
http://urjtag.org/book/_system_requirements.html#_required_software_for_running_urjtag

Just make sure it can interface 3.3 V logic levels as used for the Rigol JTAG bus. I think there's a few JTAG adapters that only supports 5 V logic levels, but most should interface at 3.3 V too.

You might need to make your own 20 to 14 pin adapter cable. There's some JTAG adapters with a 14 pin plug too, but be aware that there's different pinout standards used for 14 pin JTAG connectors. So just because it's 14 pin doesn't necessarily mean it's has the same pinout as used by Rigol.

Is the jtag for the BlackFin

Cybernet mentioned BlackFin BF526 here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol%27s-internal-i2c-bus/msg241335/#msg241335

[Mark_O]

There also seems to be little information on the DS1404z online?

What is a DS1404Z anyway?  I've never heard of it, or seen it anywhere.  Do you have a link?

[Mark_O]

So looking at the spec further, I'm wondering if I'd see any benefit to getting the DS1404z over the DS1102E. I don't need 4 channels, the DS2*** is out of my price bracket a bit.

Dan, you mentioned repairing TVs, and I wondered if that included HDTV as well as SDTV?  If so, the DS2000 is set up to trigger on HDTV signals, and can lock onto a specific scan line, say, if you needed to look at something in the VBI.

The DS1000Z only handles up to EDTV, and the older DS1000E series only SDTV.  That may be a consideration for you.

[Avotronics]

So looking at the spec further, I'm wondering if I'd see any benefit to getting the DS1404z over the DS1102E. I don't need 4 channels, the DS2*** is out of my price bracket a bit.

Dan, you mentioned repairing TVs, and I wondered if that included HDTV as well as SDTV?  If so, the DS2000 is set up to trigger on HDTV signals, and can lock onto a specific scan line, say, if you needed to look at something in the VBI.

The DS1000Z only handles up to EDTV, and the older DS1000E series only SDTV.  That may be a consideration for you.

Thanks Mark,

Didn't realise that, yes that would be very useful.
I've already settled on DS2000, just waiting for Xmas to be over with before purchase...

[Avotronics]

There also seems to be little information on the DS1404z online?

What is a DS1404Z anyway?  I've never heard of it, or seen it anywhere.  Do you have a link?

Sorry meant DS1104Z

[Mark_O]

I've already settled on DS2000, just waiting for Xmas to be over with before purchase...

If this is just for personal use, I can see waiting until after Xmas.  But if it will be used in a business, I'd pick it up before EOY, and expense it for 2013.

Of course, you could do both.  (buy between Dec26 and 31)

Glad you found one that met your needs.

[Avotronics]

I've already settled on DS2000, just waiting for Xmas to be over with before purchase...

If this is just for personal use, I can see waiting until after Xmas.  But if it will be used in a business, I'd pick it up before EOY, and expense it for 2013.

Of course, you could do both.  (buy between Dec26 and 31)

Glad you found one that met your needs.

Is there a reason why I would be worse off If I put it down on 2014 expenses?
I have a feeling there is something I don't know about lol 

[Mark_O]

I've already settled on DS2000, just waiting for Xmas to be over with before purchase...

If this is just for personal use, I can see waiting until after Xmas.  But if it will be used in a business, I'd pick it up before EOY, and expense it for 2013.

Of course, you could do both.  (buy between Dec26 and 31)

Glad you found one that met your needs.

Is there a reason why I would be worse off If I put it down on 2014 expenses?
I have a feeling there is something I don't know about lol 

Well, 2013 is almost over.  So a 2013 expense yields benefits to you in 4 months.  Make the purchase in January 2014, and you wait 15 months.  It's usually better to make acquisitions you have a timing choice on at the end of one year, vs. the beginning of the next.  That's assuming your fiscal year is the same as a calendar year.  Which it is for many small business owners.

[Of course, if you can balance things so that you never get any tax refund (always have exactly the right amount withheld/prepaid), it may be less relevant?  I've never evaluated that situation, because I've never been in that position.]

[Avotronics]

I've already settled on DS2000, just waiting for Xmas to be over with before purchase...

If this is just for personal use, I can see waiting until after Xmas.  But if it will be used in a business, I'd pick it up before EOY, and expense it for 2013.

Of course, you could do both.  (buy between Dec26 and 31)

Glad you found one that met your needs.

Is there a reason why I would be worse off If I put it down on 2014 expenses?
I have a feeling there is something I don't know about lol 

Well, 2013 is almost over.  So a 2013 expense yields benefits to you in 4 months.  Make the purchase in January 2014, and you wait 15 months.  It's usually better to make acquisitions you have a timing choice on at the end of one year, vs. the beginning of the next.  That's assuming your fiscal year is the same as a calendar year.  Which it is for many small business owners.

[Of course, if you can balance things so that you never get any tax refund (always have exactly the right amount withheld/prepaid), it may be less relevant?  I've never evaluated that situation, because I've never been in that position.]

I've only been refunded a few times, I prefer to owe a little than to give the bastards more than I have to. :-)
I'll see what happens, I've a few big jobs coming in soon might make that purchase soon.

[Mark_O]

I've only been refunded a few times, I prefer to owe a little than to give the bastards more than I have to. :-)

That's definitely the best, and smartest way to go.  It's surprising how many people would prefer to give the Gov use of their $ for free, just so they can get a fat refund back.   

In my case, I try to trim it as close as possible, but allow a margin to avoid having to pay penalties if I underestimated too much.  So far I haven't, but I always wind up getting a little something back as a result.

I still always give some thought to purchases I expect to be making in Q1 of next year, and move them forward to end of December, unless I know I'll need the expense later to help offset anticipated gains.  YMMV.

[Avotronics]

I've only been refunded a few times, I prefer to owe a little than to give the bastards more than I have to. :-)

That's definitely the best, and smartest way to go.  It's surprising how many people would prefer to give the Gov use of their $ for free, just so they can get a fat refund back.   

In my case, I try to trim it as close as possible, but allow a margin to avoid having to pay penalties if I underestimated too much.  So far I haven't, but I always wind up getting a little something back as a result.

I still always give some thought to purchases I expect to be making in Q1 of next year, and move them forward to end of December, unless I know I'll need the expense later to help offset anticipated gains.  YMMV.

I agree it makes sense. Everyone seems to do it.
It's just the scope is somewhat a luxury. I do need one without doubt, but I could get by on a cheap 100mhz.
But I like to have good gear round me, at least best I can afford. The scope will help me earn money and also perfect some projects I've got in the pipeline, but I'm a sod for impulse buying.