Best handheld dmm, at any price?

[Electro Detective]

Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?

Handhelds WILL get dropped sooner or later and rained on, either by nature in the field, a clumsy coffee/tea/shiraz/vodka disaster
or some stinking male cat marking its meter territory when you're at the van getting parts and finishing off that donut

Either surround 'best handheld dmms' with a foam skin and perspex front guard,


or a Fluke 28-11 may be the hot favorite in 'Meter Survivor' or "Last Meter Standing' reality shows

[hgjdwx]

First explain that my English is not good and I use Google Translate.
I have a DT4282 that has been in use for more than two years.
The DT4282 has many advantages. Some of its features are not comparable to other hand-held multimeters.
Like its DCV range and resistance range speed, resistance range accuracy, and stability, temperature drift and so on.
There is 1uV resolution and stability of the DCV I appreciate and often use.
There is also a very good frequency response of its ACV.
And its ultra-fast PEAK function.
The above mentioned are far superior to other hand-held multimeters of the same grade.
But I also see  many disadvantages  it is:
It does not have an analog bar, the continuity test response time is 10mS, the display shows dark,
Only voltage AC+DC function, no current AC+DC function, AC voltage, current speed is not fast,
Capacitance is very slow, and AC voltage and current mantissa are forced to zero within the word is below "999".
Large reading range when the signal  above 100 KHz  for ACV measurements, and the upper limit for frequency measurement is 500 KHz, and
The frequency of many test signals cannot be displayed, and sometimes the manual switching range does not respond.
PEAK function does not have mV range, AC+DC and AC/DC dual display have no mv range.
The FILTER function has only 600V  and 1000V range and no 6V and 60V range.
The recalled stored data and current measurement data cannot be displayed in the same screen.

So I made the following suggestions to the manufacturer:

Functional improvements:
1: Continuity test response time increased to 1ms, and Increase resolution to 0.01OHM
2: Use high-brightness, high-contrast display (just now display is dark)
3: Diode range increases resolution to 0.0001V
4: Open circuit of resistance range is changed to "OL" without flashing
5: Increase the measurement speed of the capacitor
6: Cancel auto-zero function in “999” character of AC range
7: Increase the AC speed and AC/DC dual display measurement speed, and instead when performing AC/DC dual display automatic speed measurement, the ranges of AC and DC are not related and the ranges are independent.
8: Improve the reading stability of the signal above 100KHZ by ACV (currently the reading is too large)
9: Increase the upper limit of the frequency measurement range and improve some frequencies can not be displayed
10: Improvement Sometimes transform Range Does Not Respond
11: Improvement: The “?”, “?” and “RANGE” keys on the right side of the panel together constitute the quick function key for range switching, similar to the desktop multimeter

Increased functionality:
1: PEAK function increases mv range
2: increase the recalled stored data and the current measurement data with the screen display
3: FILTER function increases 6V, 60V range
4: Increase the low impedance mode function
5: Add analog bar display
6: Increase range indication
7: increase the maximum, minimum, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
8: increase the positive peak, negative peak, present value (real-time measurement) with the screen display
9: AC+DC and AC/DC dual display increase the mv range
10:  Add current AC+DC function.
11:  Add automatic power off time setting function.

[Synthtech]

Interesting. I find that the capacitor autoranging in my DT4282 is much, much faster than my Keysight.

[VEGETA]

So what meter do you suggest for <100$?

It has to include measuring capacitors accurately and true rms...etc.

Right now my main is Aneng 8009 and I got another 8002 as a spare. I plan to get the 121gw when it is ready to sell, I guess that could be my high-end meter. Significantly better than 8009.

And I have a question: Why Fluke 87 is always the most used one? always considered the standard... can someone explain this?

[Fungus]

So what meter do you suggest for <100$?

None, basically. Between ANENGS and $100 there's no real advantage.

It has to include measuring capacitors accurately and true rms...etc.

No DMM is going to measure capacitors accurately. You need an LCR meter for that.

And I have a question: Why Fluke 87 is always the most used one? always considered the standard... can someone explain this?

Because it just works. And keeps on working.

[hgjdwx]

Interesting. I find that the capacitor autoranging in my DT4282 is much, much faster than my Keysight.

It is obviously slow than F187 and U1272A

[Synthtech]

For autoranging and settling in the capacitance mode the Hioki leaves my U1282A for dead. The keysight is much slower.

I wish the Hioki had a longer auto-shutdown time though. I would like to see a “lab mode”  option on high end hand held meters where the meter would just stay on until it is manually turned off by the user.

[VEGETA]

None, basically. Between ANENGS and $100 there's no real advantage.

Really?
Dave made 50$ and 100$ shootouts so I thought it would be some real differences. Ok, so what are the real advantages beyond that?

No DMM is going to measure capacitors accurately. You need an LCR meter for that.

I wish to understand this. Why would it be like this? not even the high quality meters? So why they put such a feature if it is not accurate (not reliable)?

Because it just works. And keeps on working.

Isn't this what nearly all meters are?

I asked because I really see using Fluke 87 being used like this, so it is not a coincidence. There must be a true reason for it and I wish to know it.

 

[hgjdwx]

The DT4282 can accurately measure the DC component of AC and DC mixed signals (such as the DC voltage of the MOS's  D pole in the switching power supply), which is very accurate! Most true-rms multimeters do not do this well. It also accurately measures the tiny DC components in the AC signal.

[Fungus]

None, basically. Between ANENGS and $100 there's no real advantage.

Really?
Dave made 50$ and 100$ shootouts so I thought it would be some real differences.

That was long ago, before those ANENGs appeared.

No DMM is going to measure capacitors accurately. You need an LCR meter for that.

I wish to understand this.

Homework: Find out what an LCR meter does.

Because it just works. And keeps on working.

Isn't this what nearly all meters are?

Sure, with light use on a nice clean table and never exposed to any dangerous voltages.

There's a whole thread on "robustness" here, with a lot of useful information:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/

People buy F87s because they do enough, they do nothing badly and they last a long time.

F87s are a bit overpriced but if you use your meter a lot or it's used for paid work then maybe that doesn't matter. They should last 20 years or more so you can do the math on how much they cost per year, decide if it's worth it.

Me? I'll probably never own one*. They're expensive and I simply don't need an industrial meter.

(*) Not unless somebody else pays for it.

[Alex P]

No DMM is going to measure capacitors accurately. You need an LCR meter for that.

I wish to understand this. Why would it be like this? not even the high quality meters? So why they put such a feature if it is not accurate (not reliable)?

Measuring capacitance is a bit of a black art. Capacitance can depend on frequency, temperature, even the applied voltage. Then there's ESR / delta etc. Strangely, people seem to be more at ease with capacitors than with inductors.

It's there as a feature because people want it, not because they know what the measurement is worth.

[Fungus]

It's there as a feature because people want it, not because they know what the measurement is worth.

They can confirm the number printed on the side of the capacitor. If the reading is much less than that then you know the capacitor should be binned.

OTOH that number doesn't tell you much about how the capacitor will perform in a real circuit, an LCR meter can tell you a lot more about that.

[VEGETA]

But lcr meter requires getting the cap desoldered from the board.

[bd139]

You can't measure the cap value in circuit. You're then measuring the circuit's capacitance.

[VEGETA]

You can't measure the cap value in circuit. You're then measuring the circuit's capacitance.

yes, that is required too.

Anyway, I wanted to know how +400$ DMM cannot measure capacitance accurately while a lot less LCR meter can do it perfectly. They both have MCU and ADC to do the final job... so why?

[coromonadalix]

with an real lcr meter  you can choose the test biais voltages in some case ac or dc from 0.5v up to 2v or even more, the test frequencies 50hz and up to 100khz and more too, test esr, q, etc etc...  lot more than an dmm or bench meter can do, and yes you can test some parts in parallel or serial circuit mode too

[Fungus]

Anyway, I wanted to know how +400$ DMM cannot measure capacitance accurately while a lot less LCR meter can do it perfectly. They both have MCU and ADC to do the final job... so why?

Probaly just marketing/lack of demand.

Also: It needs a completely different user interface.

LCR meters look like this:



You can get combined DMM/LCR meters but most people who know about LCR meters would want a proper one.

eg. http://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/lcr-messgeraet-mit-dmm/produkt/peaktech-2180.html

[001]

And I have a question: Why Fluke 87 is always the most used one? always considered the standard... can someone explain this?

The same story like Kalashnikov rifle.

[Fungus]

And I have a question: Why Fluke 87 is always the most used one? always considered the standard... can someone explain this?

The same story like Kalashnikov rifle gun.

Good analogy. 

[VEGETA]

And I have a question: Why Fluke 87 is always the most used one? always considered the standard... can someone explain this?

The same story like Kalashnikov rifle.

Hhhh not really. the AK47 has real advantages over the others, known and measurable advantages.

You can get combined DMM/LCR meters but most people who know about LCR meters would want a proper one.

This one is really popular and it is the one if I wanted to buy an LCR meter. It is cheap (~30$) and many people say it is nice.

What do you think?

https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-3_5inch-Colorful-Display-Multi-functional-TFT-Backlight-Transistor-Tester-p-1083042.html?rmmds=search

[Elasia]

I made a new thread for LCR meters, thought it was interesting enough to split off this and keep this one to all purpose dmms

[mikeselectricstuff]

A DMM is adequate for the three most common reasons most people need to measure  capacitance :
To identify unmarked caps
To check that electrolytics haven't dried out
To find which end of a cable a break is nearest ( some DMMs don't go low enough  to do this - ideally needs 1pf resolution)
 

[bd139]

Only time I use capacitance on my DMM is when I've run out of MLCC 100nF caps and I want to make sure the ones I nicked off an old HP scope motherboard I have in the cupboard are actually 100nF ones. And that's only because I'm too impatient to wait for RS to arrive next day. 

Everything else I built a test rig with a colpitts oscillator and a 1% mica cap and plug it into a counter. That's as good as a high end LCR meter and does inductance and capacitance down to 0.1pF and 0.1uH

edit: design: http://www.qsl.net/wm5z/cq199301b.pdf

Looks like shit but it works:

[Synthtech]

Measuring capacitance with a multimeter is like measuring DC with an oscilloscope.

[bd139]

To be fair I do that all the time. It's basically an analogue multimeter that draws a line instead of having a needle. 5/10% is close enough most of the time.