Author Topic: Best handheld dmm, at any price?  (Read 36629 times)

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Offline MosherIV

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2018, 04:37:25 pm »
Hi

I already have my dream dmm........Fluke 187  :D

Sadly, you can no longer get them   :'(
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2018, 04:37:58 pm »
OK, I have a doubt. I was just looking at the datasheet and the diode test voltage of the BM869S is listed as 2V.

Can it light up a white LED?


My 867 certainly can, even with old batteries - just tested it. Measured the test voltage and it was more like a 2.98V and not 2V. Unless they changed the circuitry for this in 869, I would say it can do it too (the meters are almost identical).
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2018, 04:41:06 pm »
Can it light up a white LED?

Diode test is a weak point of the 869s. It has a low test voltage and it doesn't beep on short circuit.

That's not true, at least on my 867 (almost identical meter, just doesn't measure temperature). It has 3V diode test voltage and it does beep on shorts (and the beeper is pretty fast at that) - you just need to select the continuity, not diode mode (don't know many meters beeping in diode mode).
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2018, 04:46:19 pm »
My 867 certainly can, even with old batteries - just tested it. Measured the test voltage and it was more like a 2.98V and not 2V. Unless they changed the circuitry for this in 869, I would say it can do it too (the meters are almost identical).

Brymen lists the 867 test voltage as 2.0V, just like the 869. I guess I'd be safe buying one then (assuming I ever feel the need to buy a high-end meter).
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2018, 04:50:35 pm »
That's not true, at least on my 867 (almost identical meter, just doesn't measure temperature). It has 3V diode test voltage and it does beep on shorts (and the beeper is pretty fast at that) - you just need to select the continuity, not diode mode (don't know many meters beeping in diode mode).

From memory my 869s does not report the forward voltage for any LED over 2 V. It may light the LED, but the display shows OL.

I think the idea of beeping in diode mode is that you can probe around a circuit board looking at forward junctions in transistors etc. and the meter will beep if any junction is a short circuit instead of a diode. The beep is handy to save having to switch your eyes back and forth between the probes and the meter display. Some people really like that feature, although I have not had cause to use it myself.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2018, 04:55:47 pm »
From memory my 869s does not report the forward voltage for any LED over 2 V. It may light the LED, but the display shows OL.

Correct. See in the photo below.

I think the idea of beeping in diode mode is that you can probe around a circuit board looking at forward junctions in transistors etc. and the meter will beep if any junction is a short circuit instead of a diode. The beep is handy to save having to switch your eyes back and forth between the probes and the meter display. Some people really like that feature, although I have not had cause to use it myself.

Haven't seen that in a meter yet. I thought you were referring to normal continuity beep (which it has, of course).


Brymen lists the 867 test voltage as 2.0V, just like the 869. I guess I'd be safe buying one then (assuming I ever feel the need to buy a high-end meter).

See for yourself. The batteries in the 867 are still the original ones from two or three years ago when I got it (it doesn't get much use).

EDIT: just realized that the debate was mentioning both the "normal" 867/869 and the newer "S" versions. For the record, mine is the "old" (not "S"). Maybe the S version has the diode test different, caveat emptor - can't find the datasheet for the old version now.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:15:29 pm by janoc »
 

Offline gertux

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2018, 05:00:16 pm »
Got a brymen 869 last month, very happy with the meter, much bang for your buck.

The only negative is like already mentioned the size, but as I use it on the bench 99% of the time that's OK.

I use my old Fluke 23 when I wander about.


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Offline IanB

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2018, 05:05:27 pm »
Haven't seen that in a meter yet. I thought you were referring to normal continuity beep (which it has, of course).

It's a feature of the 87V.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2018, 05:06:21 pm »
I drew up a big spreadsheet of 30 odd meters available in the UK and selected the Keysight U1241C.

1. Constant input impedance unlike some other meters.
2. Fast continuity. Much faster than Fluke recent offerings. It's instant.
3. Torch and backlight so I can use it buggering around in a car.
4. IP67 casing so you can use it buggering around in a car when it's raining.
5. you can knock it off the bench and shrug.
6. Probe alerts if you plug the wrong ones in.
7. Goes down to uA, mV
8. Does frequency quite happily up to about 10MHz
9. Display is AMAZING. Much better than the 87V.
10. 10,000 count. 40 readings/sec. Good enough.
11. Runs on AA batteries. No 9v ones or shit ones. And they last for ages.
12. Came with a USB opto-isolated data cable, unlike everyone else who charges you lots for one.
13. Comes with probes that aren't shit.
14. Orange. I like orange.
15. Analogue bargraph
16. Built in thermometer which is really handy.
17. Keysight support and service is actually pretty amazing. I can just phone someone in the UK and get support instantly.
18. Proper CAT ratings unlike shitty no brands.
19. Peak / min / max
20. Programmable 10/100M input impedance.
21. You can turn off all the annoying beepy shit
22. Not an OLED screen so it might last more than a couple of years.

And half the cost of a Fluke 87V...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 05:08:19 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline Fsck

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2018, 05:17:37 pm »
I'm going to be bold and disagree with everyone. I do not know of a perfect dmm that does absolutely everything I want it to do from an electronics point of view.
I think a combination of handheld units is going to be the best option right now.
I have a Fluke 8060a, 87V, Brymen 869 and the new eevblog 121GW and I think I have decent coverage of features with the lot.
If you forced me to choose only one meter to keep, I'd choose the 869.

If we're talking specs, I think the Gossen Metrahit Energy looks like it might be closer to an ideal meter than the 869, but I've never used one, only seen Dave's video and its literature.
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Offline janoc

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2018, 05:18:34 pm »
Haven't seen that in a meter yet. I thought you were referring to normal continuity beep (which it has, of course).

It's a feature of the 87V.

Ah ok. Never had a Fluke around apart from the 101 and that one is a bit oddball with its various autodetection features.
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2018, 05:57:06 pm »
The quest for the best meter when ive bought the Gossen 28s and 29s  was to have the highest resolution available, sturdiness and stability over aging / time, in my country Canada Quebec  they dont cost too much when calibrating them, sure they are rare has hell,  tried the more recent metrahit series,   one word  erk  they dont even come close to the old series of metrahit 28 29 and 30 models. the biggest drawback are the accessories, the usb or rs232 interfaces are more rare and pricey too ... the clean and good Gossens sell often as 300 - 500 $ usd range, was lucky to find them aroun 250$ each, but the interfaces costed me a fortune (400$ just for 2x 232 and 1x usb interface)

The most wanted feature i want is  one dc range and one ac range,  absolutely no mv range, i measure tons of testpoint voltages between few millivolts and 20 - 30 volts ...  that was my first search.

Had high hopes for the EEVblog gw121,  still waiting for the troubles to get solved over time and new batches  produced..

I had the chance to find a Fluke 189 because i needed one more meter, i love the fact you dont totally open the meter case to change the fuses and batteries, if i can buy one more ill do it right away,  They are found in the 200 - 250$ usd range, ir interface around 100$ usd

Ive seen  Chauvin Arnoux "AKA Metrix" top models, i personally hate the leads positions and flip look a like startreck casing, but they seem well built and precise, calibration procedures and price unknowns ...

I had Brymen 857s model,  very good and fast, i hated the casing of the 869,  and the tilt stand wobling. But stop telling its an 500k count, its a real 50k count with an 500k enhanced count in very few functions, sell around 175 - 280$ usd   depends where you buy them, ir interface around 100$

Had in the past an Mastech 22000 count model, with easy fuses and battery acess, it was well built too, under 100$ usd,  bargain at the time on DX

Tried the fluke 28x of a friend,  hated them,  too high priced ... 

Uni-T   blah,  very few models a worth to buy... prices  blah

If you new at this :  stay with the common and reliable brands, thoses who are tested by the eevblog members, the teardowns, the encountered problems ... the parts disponibility  if sometimes needed,  flukes are the luckyest one of the loot.

Ex : syba fuses cost a lot each,  the flukes ones are very good and lower priced ... 5-8$  instead of 10-30$ original syba fuses.

Brymen have a good cost quality ratio,  check for the S versions  they are more recent and have better backlight, i would go for them as a start, calibrations procedures are known here and are available,  Fluke and Gossen need special softwares, dont know for Mastech...

Some Keysight are pain in the @%*(  to change fuses, calibrations price and procedure ???  i dont even check them, prices 200 - 350$ usd

here's my 2 cents of experiences. pricing is relative, they change and varies a lot   Alixpress, DX, Ebay  ...

My best meter would be an Fluke 8846a in an portable dmm case .... loll
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 06:12:05 pm by coromonadalix »
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2018, 06:11:25 pm »
Hi

I already have my dream dmm........Fluke 187  :D

Sadly, you can no longer get them   :'(
I have the 189 which I think is also a very nice meter.  Agree that it's a shame they don't offer a basic meter like these anymore.  I doubt they were very popular with electricians.  You can get a stripped 87V or the over the top and slow 289.    That's why I like the 869s.  It's just a good all around basic meter and still my favorite of all the meters I have looked at.   

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I still like the UT181A and if they would make a better version of it, I would buy one.  As it is, unable to use the meter when charging that odd ball battery,  lens is easy to scratch,  typical UNI-T ESD problems etc,  I give it a no go.  On the plus side, I like the Fluke 289 interface and the fact that they out right stole it.  They even improved on the 289s UI in some respects.  The meter is very stable with temperature.  Graphing and boot times are much better than the 289.   Like the BM869s, the 181A also has two thermocouple inputs.  The bargraph is one of the fastest and is bidirectional.  That is just slick. 

The Gossen Ultra wouldn't be too bad if it was not so sensitive to RF and static fields.  Well, and don't get near it with a magnetic hanger.  And battery life with BT is very short.   I think if it were your only meter and you used it every day, you could master navigating the menus.   Don't expect any service.   I understand Gossen was working to improve it.   It looks nice on the shelf.

I still like my cheapo CEM DT9939.  It's slow.  The bargraph updates with the display making it worthless.  There is a bug with the decimal point when it changes ranges.  Overall quality is not the best.  Rotary switch may crack if you loan it to someone wanting to turn it past the dead stops.  It's certainly not the most robust meter I have looked at.  When they were selling for $120, it was a very good deal.   Like the RF link.  Draws very little current and can log remotely for extended times.     

That should give you meter connoisseurs some ammo...  :-DD

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2018, 06:16:14 pm »
On the old gossen, i did not perceive the rf noises or sensitivity problems, but for the fun of it, the 28 and 28 have an inside plastic shield with an screw who touch an ground plane , i simply added aluminum auto-adhesive foil up to the screw,   never had any problems has joeqsmith mentioned.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 06:17:52 pm by coromonadalix »
 
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Offline ogden

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2018, 06:42:23 pm »
The best multimeter is one that measures everything at highest precision imaginable, yet costs nothing. With same success you can ask about any tool, like automobile and get wild spectrum of answers - from sport cars till trucks and not only  :)
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2018, 07:17:22 pm »
If money would not be an option, I would buy the:

Gossen M273C MetraHIT IM XTRA All-In-One Multimeter & Isolationsmessgerät & Wicklungstest & Datalogger
EUR 1.660,00 + TAX   

An All-In-One METRAHIT XTRA IM with 30,000 digits: milliohm and meter, data logger and insulation resistance and winding tester. Compact and multifunctional for field use: An airplane cockpit also be used advantageously as in other constricted locations where else have multiple test sets are used.

The multimeter is a portable, extremely robust Vielfachmessgerat designed for field use. It is suitable for maintenance, service and diagnostics of electrical machines and drives and systems, for. As in the automotive, avionics, energy and automation.

The All-In-One UNIT is an insulation tester, milliohm, Windungsschlusstester and Universal multimeter. It is ideal for security screening and diagnosis of electric and hybrid vehicles and all types of electric machines.

There, in conjunction with an optional coil test adapter Windungsschlussmessungen.

Features and highlights:

    Multifunction device
    Milliohm with 4-wire connection (Kelvin measurement) of 200 mA or 1A
    Isolation tester with test voltages of 10 to 1000 V
    Windungsschlussmessung
    Winding test with 1000 V test voltage
    Safety-related testing for electrical devices, drives and installations with only one field device suitable
    High-voltage system test according to UN ECE R100
    Insulation resistance measurement according to EN 61557-2 / VDE 0413-2
    R low installation test according to EN 61557-4 / VDE 0413-4
    Bondingtest or potential equalization measurement, for example on aircraft outer skin (lightning protection - Ableittest / "Wick Test")
    Wide isolation level measurement to 3.1 G with external voltage detection, test voltages: 50 V, 100 V, 250 V, 500 V, 1000 V according to EN 61557-2 / VDE 0413-2
    DAR: PI:
    4-wire Milliohm with Kelvin connection and 200 mA or 1 A measurement current for the precise measurement of very small resistors with 1 Resolution
    2-wire R low measurement with 200 mA test according to EN 61557-4 / VDE 0413-4
    RMS Measurement TRMSAC / AC + DC voltage / current to 10/100 kHz
    Low pass filter AC, AC + DC
    Direct current measurement
    Current measurement with pliers sensors: The transfer ratio is CLIP of 1: 1000 and adjustable is taken into account in the amps display 1 to the first
    capacitance measurement
    Precision temperature measurement ° C, ° F for RTD and TC-K sensors
    Diode measurement flow K to 5.1 V) and continuity test
    acoustic signaling
    Detection of min / max values; DATA Hold
    Data logger thanks to built-in memory and real time clock, and for individual measurements
    The push / print function transmits readings by pressing a button on the application software
    Programmable sequences for test routines
    Color graphic display with analog bar graph
    Modular power supply: Lithium standard quick-change battery
    optional WPC module for inductive charging and power module with USB interface changes without measuring circuit interruption due Touch protected modular jack
    Automatic blocking sockets (ABS) for the current input
    Probe with function keys START (ISO) and STORE
    IP52 dust and drip-proof, removable rubber holster
    Bluetooth or Wireless LAN connection, USB with optional power module

Delivery:

    1 METRAHIT IM XTRA with protective rubber cover
    1 test probe with a START function and STORE
    1 pair of safety leads KS17-2 type with 4 mm probe
    1 pair Kelvin terminals KC4
    1 lithium polymer quick-change battery with Micro-USB charging socket
    1 USB power supply (5VDC 2A) with wires on micro-USB charging plug
    1 Software IZYTRON.IQ BUSINESS starter for documentation, preparation of audit reports and graphical analysis of the measurements
    1 Quick Start Guide German / English
    1 instruction manual in German and English (Download)
    1 DAkkS calibration
    1 Hard case for accommodating the multimeter with accessories
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Offline TiN

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2018, 07:22:30 pm »
I like my 87V. Tried 289 at lab, it's horrible and painful.

This thread should be vote, no?

Speed and convinience of 87V is the reason to have handheld for me.
For accuracy even rusty 200$ old 34401A will leave no room for even fancy handhelds with all those digits, so that is rarely reason 1 in handhelds.
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Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2018, 07:23:44 pm »
That Gossen M273C MetraHIT IM XTRA.... Yes please.
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2018, 07:51:13 pm »
I have a pile of high end multimeters, my most used meters are:
1) Keysight U1252B, it do the job, but the user interface design is silly and I do not use the rechargeable battery. Maybe it is time to switch to one of my other Keysight meters (U1272A/U1282A) they are not used in a fixed setup anymore.
2) Gossen Energy, I never blow fuses on this one and then it can measure real power.
3) Fluke 189, my favorite Fluke meter (I also have a 289 and some other)
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2018, 08:09:22 pm »
I've been using a good old Agilent/KS U1241B for ages now.. my other is a BM869s.. I'll probly make Dave's contraption my third when he gets unburdened from it / maybe 2nd rev

Holy shit that gossen above this post... yes please /drool  :-DMM :-/O :-DMM

I mean if you really want at any price.. +1 that gossen.. practical, the 3 above i'd go with
 

Offline Synthtech

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2018, 08:38:51 pm »
For lab use the hand held multimeter that feels closest to a bench meter to me in performance is the Hioki DT4282 60,000 count meter. It has the fastest auto ranging that I have ever seen in a handheld (it puts my Keysight U1282A to shame in that regard). Hioki are designed and built in Japan and make their own custom meter chip and it’s speed and build quality are second to none. The Keysight is more rugged and configurable but it feels like an electricians meter in it’s performance compared to the Hioki which feels like a bench meter. I use both every day and they are both fantastic but I reach for the Hioki first when I want to measure capacitance or to do particularly fine equipment calibration.
 

Offline kj7e

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2018, 10:57:11 pm »
Hi

I already have my dream dmm........Fluke 187  :D

Sadly, you can no longer get them   :'(

Agree, I’ve had two 189’s and a 289, sold off the 289 as I much preferd the 189.  The 187/189 I think are some of the best Fluke ever had.
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2018, 11:11:50 pm »
Gossen 28 29  capacitance up to  30,000 uf
Fluke 187 189  capacitance up to 50,000uf

heard but not tested, that Hioki dmm are rounding some numbers in ac ranges ????

Fluke in the 8x series past the rev 3 has lost me, they are switched to ac at first, you have to put them in dc   pffff  hate that a lot,   have them at my job but managed to push them to someone else  loll while retaining the old revision 3 to myself,  the only quirk with thoses meters is to clean the switch contactors and pcb traces,  had strange beeps  while turned off ??

The Gossen M273  seems way overkill for day to day uses ?? mostly made for industrial use, and the price  ouuuutch  an arm and leg, at this price you have very good bench meters
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2018, 11:12:40 pm »
Any dmm should (imho) be:

1) Reliable
2) Accurate

On top of that: features and resolution.
I like the Metrawatt 30M but the same reliability and build quality can be found in the 2+ at 1/6 of the price, to me it has sufficient accuracy
and features to do a lot of troubleshooting/repair.
So that is what I have and I'am happy with it, if a 30M shows up cheap I might go for it though, but to be honest I don't need it.   :scared:
Don't forget speed. I  must admit I undervalued that aspect for a long time. Having to wait for a good reading for a few seconds each time starts to grate after a while. It's what a meter like the 87V does very well and why I keep going back to it.
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Best handheld dmm, at any price?
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2018, 11:17:31 pm »
yep  i agree mr scram,  speed maybe an serious issue,   the old gossen are slightly slow,  2rdgs pers secs if i recall,  fluke 3 rdgs,  but too fast maybe an problem too ??

But i use all of them for data logging (Fluke and Gossen) theses times i use Fluke more, faster to un-snap the ir interface
 


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