Author Topic: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?  (Read 32320 times)

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Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #125 on: June 27, 2016, 07:39:42 pm »
@ Sairus - I have not been able to sleep, tonight, so I have worked on your design. I have made the first draft of the Eagle schematic and board layouts. I have attached jpeg images for you to review. If you see needed corrections, let me know and I will fix any issues. (I already see that I left the capacitor values off of the schematic. I will correct this.) When you have given your final approval, I will post the Eagle files and pdfs, as I did for Jadew.

I determined that my confusion over the PL2313 being on the board was from not understanding that the UART-USB box on the schematic was just to represent this off-board component. I was further confused by the big capacitor, below the PIC12F683 in the photograph; I thought it was the PL2313.

Once I had this straightened out in my mind, I was able to follow your board layout. You came up with an elegant design and did well with avoiding cutting off access to ground.

There are a few minor differences to my representation of your work:
- You used 5mm holes for the IR components; I used 4mm holes. This is from the early design work of others, who determined that the smaller holes made a nice seat for the convex lenses and kept these lenses from being able to be scratched by the DMM lens. The smaller hole also helps prevent seepage, when potting the components in epoxy. However, if you would rather have 5mm holes, I would be glad to change them.
- All resistors and capacitor footprints are SMD 1206. (If you specified SMD IR components, your design could be fully SMD. This would reduce the interface profile. That would be very cool.)
- Please confirm that the value for the resistor for the phototransistor is 200K.

I am enjoying working with you, very much; you have excellent skills. It is great to be making another friend on the other side of the world. Hurray for the internet!

EDIT: You might want to swap the location of C1 and C2, to place the smaller cap closer to the chip pin. Also, I had made other minor changes to your board, that I forgot to mention... I added an independent ground pad, whereas you had attached the ground wire to a cap ground pin. And, I put both caps at the top of the board. This placed the cap that was below the chip a little closer to the pin, decreased the distance between the voltage coming onto the board and then being smoothed and removed a trace from underneath the chip, improving noise considerations. I have already added the cap values to the schematic.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 08:12:45 pm by t1d »
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #126 on: June 28, 2016, 12:41:46 am »
@ Sairus
Would these work?
Mouser.com
IR Emitter - Part Number: 782-VSMB2000X01
IR Phototransister - Part Number: 782-VEMT2000X01
 

Offline JackM

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #127 on: June 28, 2016, 01:00:06 am »
@ Sairus - I have not been able to sleep, tonight, so I have worked on your design. I have made the first draft of the Eagle schematic and board layouts. I have attached jpeg images for you to review. If you see needed corrections, let me know and I will fix any issues. (I already see that I left the capacitor values off of the schematic. I will correct this.) When you have given your final approval, I will post the Eagle files and pdfs, as I did for Jadew.

After looking at the board layout, I was wondering about the placement of the +5V, ground and RX pads. They seem to be placed in sort of random spots on the board. It would be nice if they were all together, and perhaps the pads could be changed to allow for adding a surface mount 0.1" pin header on the board? I was thinking something like this: http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/harwin-inc/M20-7870246/952-1771-ND/3727740
I think it would make connecting the lockstep board to a USB cable a lot simpler.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #128 on: June 28, 2016, 03:21:36 am »
After looking at the board layout, I was wondering about the placement of the +5V, ground and RX pads. They seem to be placed in sort of random spots on the board. It would be nice if they were all together, and perhaps the pads could be changed to allow for adding a surface mount 0.1" pin header on the board? I was thinking something like this: http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/harwin-inc/M20-7870246/952-1771-ND/3727740 I think it would make connecting the lockstep board to a USB cable a lot simpler.
Hey, Jack,

Thanks for working on this with me... Good observations... I like the connector idea.

The wire pads were placed with some intent... proximity to pins, having the cable centered over the board, and, in the case of the ground, making sure that it was not cut off from any component's ground pin, by a trace. The cable does not necessarily need to be centered, but that is what is typical and it would make twisting the board into the bracket easier, by some minor amount, because it is over the center axis of the board.

5V and C1 (I suggest C1 be the 100n resistor) could trade places, though the present arrangement has the advantage of less trace between C1 and the pin (reduces the trace/antenna length.) RX could be turned 90 degrees and GND could be worked in below RX. With a little tweaking, all off the wire pads could be lined up on the left side of the chip, just slightly off axis.

If you use Eagle, I would be glad to send you the working files and you can play around with it. I would find it fun to have someone to work with on the "magic art" of board layout design.

Ultimately, I just want Sairus to make any final decisions and for him to be pleased with his creation.

I was going to post a cleaned-up revision of the board, but I see another mistake. So, maybe in a little while.

Thanks so much for helping. Please remember to let me know about the Eagle files.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #129 on: June 28, 2016, 03:33:09 am »
Sairus's Board
v2
Cleaned up some details to get the ground plane to fully flood the component zone.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #130 on: June 28, 2016, 04:46:17 am »
@ Jack
Here is your design. The USB cable will have to have "feet" bent on the wires. If all of the toes on the feet point left, making all of the ankles be placed on the right side of the pads, then the cable will be centered on the board. I like it. What do you think?
 

Offline Sairus

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #131 on: June 28, 2016, 05:31:06 am »
Quote
Please confirm that the value for the resistor for the phototransistor is 200K.
for each model of phototransistor you need find right value.

Quote
Would these work?
Mouser.com
IR Emitter - Part Number: 782-VSMB2000X01
IR Phototransister - Part Number: 782-VEMT2000X01
I think is suitable

Quote
Ultimately, I just want Sairus to make any final decisions and for him to be pleased with his creation.
come on it just PCB

Quote
Sairus Alt JM.jpg
it my imagination or Phototransistor is closer to edge of board than IR Emitter?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 06:18:51 am by Sairus »
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #132 on: June 28, 2016, 09:43:05 am »
for each model of phototransistor you need find right value.
Okay.

Mouser.com
IR Emitter - Part Number: 782-VSMB2000X01
IR Phototransister - Part Number: 782-VEMT2000X01
I think is suitable
Quote
Great! I think that I will order some to try on my version of the interface board that I am making for my PIC18F4550 controller...

it my imagination or Phototransistor is closer to edge of board than IR Emitter?
It looks like the outside perimeter of the whole board may have slipped 1/2mm to the right. This would have carried over into Jack's version, too. I will have to adjust that; the outside perimeter and hole measurements are critical. As I still have not slept, this fine adjustment will have to wait until another day.

Also, one pad was closer to the hole than the others. I have already corrected this.

Please describe what you are seeing, so that I can be confident that we are not seeing two different problems.

Let me know which layout you prefer...
- My first version based on your photos. This is the one with the wiring pads on three sides of the PIC12F683, or
- Jack's version that has all three wiring pads lined up on the left side of the PIC12F683.
I think Jack's looks neater, but it is your choice. I will wait for you to tell me your preference, so I only have to correct the dimensions of that particular version.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #133 on: June 28, 2016, 10:14:19 am »
This is a rough draft of my PIC18F4550 version. I have added dimension lines to illustrate the perimeter shift. It is approximately 0.2mm to the left (not right, as I wrote.)
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #134 on: June 29, 2016, 01:25:54 am »
The issue with the orientation of the boards was that the outside perimeter of the board had slipped in relation to the placement of the components. As Eagle handles holes as components, the holes were off, too. Once I determined the problem, it only took a couple of moves to correct the problem, so I just corrected all the files. See below. Catching this error was amazing. Please proof my new work.

My layout for the PIC18F4450 file will change, as I am ordering SMD IR components.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 01:27:32 am by t1d »
 

Offline JackM

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #135 on: July 04, 2016, 07:21:24 am »
I received a board revision from t1d (this one) and populated it today. Haven't connected it up to an MCU yet to test it though.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #136 on: July 04, 2016, 01:40:33 pm »
I received a board revision from t1d (this one) and populated it today. Haven't connected it up to an MCU yet to test it though.
Hey, Jack...

Firstly, some information for others looking at this. The board that Jack is working with is identical to the final revision of the board, with the exception that I sanded the solder resist off of the curved ends that mate with the DMM bracket, for him. Sanding is no longer necessary, as the final version restricts the solder resist in these areas.

Jack, that's great looking wire work on the IR components. I see that you were able to fit SMDs on the resistor pads... Good trick. I had not planned that as a option. That will leave lots of space for attaching the wiring.

I did build this board out, completely, and tested for it voltage, on my DMM, with a mirrored pair of IRs, mounted on a breadboard. I did not test it with a controller, as I do not have, or use, the Tinys. But, my expectation is that it will work just fine. I look forward to you verifying that.
 

Offline t1d

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #137 on: September 11, 2016, 08:19:27 am »
I was looking at the OSH Park PCBs of the final JackM design and trying to remember where I left off with this project. I believe that I posted the final designs for JackM and Sairus. I was working on my own design that would use all SMD components and would work with my choice of controllers, the PIC18F4550. I have designed that board, but I have not shelled out the money to order the board, or parts. Money is still a little tight and I don't know when I will be ordering them. Also on my list is to get the Python script to run on my laptop. I never have been able to run it.

I have two copies of the final JackM Lockstep Board to share. If anyone is interested, send me a pm.

JackM, did you ever try your Lockstep Board with your controller? I would really appreciate verification that the IR components are positioned correctly.

Did anyone ever order a Sairus Lockstep Board?

Does anyone know a way to get a Lockstep Board to communicate with the DMM for testing, without using a controller. The receiver side of the board could be tested with a simple IR Remote test circuit. But, is there a way to flash the transmitter to have the DMM flash back an initial "Hello?" This might not be worth the bother, but it might be fun...

I would like to hear what others have done and maybe renew interest in the project.
 

Offline JackM

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #138 on: September 11, 2016, 08:29:53 am »
I did attach the board to my Brymen BM867s and hooked up an oscilloscope to measure the phototransistor, however I discovered that without a covering over the phototransistor too much light leaks in from the side to get any useful measurement from it unfortunately.
 

Offline Sairus

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #139 on: September 17, 2016, 12:45:30 am »
Quote
would work with my choice of controllers, the PIC18F4550.

Quote
Does anyone know a way to get a Lockstep Board to communicate with the DMM for testing, without using a controller. The receiver side of the board could be tested with a simple IR Remote test circuit. But, is there a way to flash the transmitter to have the DMM flash back an initial "Hello?" This might not be worth the bother, but it might be fun...

Dude I make for you firmware for PIC18F4550 Reply #120 it will communicate with DMM when you power it on (UART to USB not needed if you not plan send data to PC).
 

Offline Sairus

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #140 on: September 26, 2016, 05:13:13 am »
 

Offline luisprata

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #141 on: October 13, 2016, 01:30:31 pm »
Anyone working on a Bluetooth (and android app) versions?
 

Offline Kennylxix

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2017, 07:50:08 am »
Hi I have a bm815 which appears to use the same ir connector.   Has anyone tried this hack with the bm815?
 

Offline flodins

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #143 on: March 15, 2017, 05:24:32 am »
Hi
Protocols from Brymens site are for their cable adapter.

I'm currently working on brymens raw IR protocols. My goal is to make universal IR adapter for all brymens.
http://imgur.com/a/epGDa

https://cad.onshape.com/documents/6562f7b59556e8698e99aa2d/w/00ec8564ae82160f19d60def/e/b8ef244811088bef4636f195

Here is a hacked protocol for the BM857 and my implementation in python:
https://github.com/sogrom/PyInstruments/blob/master/BM857_PROTOCOL
https://github.com/sogrom/PyInstruments/blob/master/openbry.py

Right now I'm working on BM857s and BM857a. Same pcb for BM515, BM511, BM817, BM815, BM812, BM811.

If anyone would like to participate in this project in any way, it will be great.

Currently circiut for OpenBry is using ft230x, but now new brymens will require some MCU on board, STM32L1 im my case.


 

Online kirill_ka

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #144 on: May 13, 2017, 01:48:46 am »
If anyone's interested, amprobe am-140-a uses the same IR protocol as described here: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/brymen-ir-connection-protocol-anyone-sniffed-it-yet/msg300904/#msg300904
 

Offline imk

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #145 on: April 01, 2018, 02:14:24 am »
Hello,
Anyone have link to Brymen protocol please as all link in this thread seem to be dead.
Many thanks imk
 

Offline TWMIV

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Re: Brymen IR connection protocol - Anyone sniffed it yet?
« Reply #146 on: May 09, 2018, 10:11:46 am »
If you still need it, Brymen rearranged their website.

The protocols for the various models are now here:
http://brymen.com/product-html/Download2.html
 


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