Buttons on SDS1202X-E stopped working

[AndrewLoomis]

In the middle of using my Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope, the buttons on the front panel just stopped working. I have previously set up the LAN control with EasyScopeX, and I can still control the scope via LAN, so it seems like its still working, I just can't get the physical buttons on the front panel to do anything, not even a beep. Did I activate some lock-out feature, or is the front panel most likely broken?

[tautech]

In the middle of using my Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope, the buttons on the front panel just stopped working. I have previously set up the LAN control with EasyScopeX, and I can still control the scope via LAN, so it seems like its still working, I just can't get the physical buttons on the front panel to do anything, not even a beep. Did I activate some lock-out feature, or is the front panel most likely broken?

Hmmm.
Probably the ribbon cable connection between the mainboard and the front panel PCB but it could be at either end.
IIRC some 1054Z owner had a similar problem recently, however if you have a Siglent service center close it should really go back for warranty repair. Try and make sure you get informed of the actual fault and if you can report back here so that other owners can maybe find this thread in the future when their 1202X-E's are past warranty.
I'll point US tech support to this thread.

[AndrewLoomis]

Thanks for the reply tautech, I've contacted Siglent on their website and waiting for their reply. I'll definitely post what was wrong after its fixed.

[dmgr]

Hi..
I have the same.
And this happens spontaneously.
Europe was applying for siglent EU, they were redirected to the Russian company Prist.
Prist replied that if they did not buy from them, then we will not help.
That is, there was no help from the siglent.
The oscilloscope was bought on aliexpress, but now everything is gone.

I disassembled the oscilloscope, on the USB chip board, U33 U46 U78, and the U126 memory,
on the right, were flooded with a large layer of flux. Washed the flux, but it did not help.
Put the fan-turbine on the blowing of the processor, heated to 60 degrees, also did not help.

When the oscilloscope stops responding to the buttons, the signal is displayed.
There are cases that it hangs completely, and strange points may appear on the display.

checked on the firmware both 5.1.3.17R1 and 5.1.3.13

Now I sit I think, what else to do.
mb/sn BA

[tautech]

Hi..
I have the same.
And this happens spontaneously.
Europe was applying for siglent EU, they were redirected to the Russian company Prist.
Prist replied that if they did not buy from them, then we will not help.
That is, there was no help from the siglent.
The oscilloscope was bought on aliexpress, but now everything is gone.

I disassembled the oscilloscope, on the USB chip board, U33 U46 U78, and the U126 memory,
on the right, were flooded with a large layer of flux. Washed the flux, but it did not help.
Put the fan-turbine on the blowing of the processor, heated to 60 degrees, also did not help.

When the oscilloscope stops responding to the buttons, the signal is displayed.
There are cases that it hangs completely, and strange points may appear on the display.

checked on the firmware both 5.1.3.17R1 and 5.1.3.13

Now I sit I think, what else to do.
mb/sn BA

Welcome to the forum.

Have you completely disassembled the scope and checked the ribbon cable to the keypad PCB is correctly seated at each end ? It carries both power for the front panel PCB and the data between both too.

[dmgr]

Yes, checked, many times. And it's not about the cable.

And if you turn on FFT, then the oscilloscope is guaranteed to freeze.
Only once I was lucky, the oscilloscope worked with FFT for a long time, but after turning on the shutdown the hangup continued.

When the oscilloscope stops reacting to the buttons, the HL2 LED stops flashing

[tautech]

Yes, checked, many times. And it's not about the cable.

And if you turn on FFT, then the oscilloscope is guaranteed to freeze.
Only once I was lucky, the oscilloscope worked with FFT for a long time, but after turning on the shutdown the hangup continued.

When the oscilloscope stops reacting to the buttons, the HL2 LED stops flashing

Thanks.
I'll seek advice from tech support.

One more question, did you try a hard power OFF, that is switch OFF at the wall not the Power button ?

[dmgr]

One more question, did you try a hard power OFF, that is switch OFF at the wall not the Power button ?

Pressing the shutdown button did not respond to the oscilloscope. I switched off the oscilloscope only by turning off the power from the socket (220V).

It was connected to the COM (RS232) port on the board, and nothing was displayed at the moment of hang-up or disabling of the buttons in the console.

[tautech]

One more question, did you try a hard power OFF, that is switch OFF at the wall not the Power button ?

Pressing the shutdown button did not respond to the oscilloscope. I switched off the oscilloscope only by turning off the power from the socket (220V).

Yes, of course, thanks.
We'll wait for advice from Siglent now. 

[dmgr]

ok. Thank you

[dmgr]

that's the way the video is when the buttons are turned off.
watch from 2,40 minutes
https://drive.google.com/open?id=13idpUFzdaNxucB7_hok6jJOI7szyeRFI

[iMo]

Does it freeze always upon the same action (ie. the selecting the math function in your video)? It seems to be rather a sw issue..

[dmgr]

In mathematics as a rule, always.
And so you can turn on, do not press anything, and after a while the buttons will not work.

[nctnico]

Based on the flux it seems they did some rework on it. By doing that they probably damaged some solder joints on the BGA chips. When the scope gets warm everything expands and the solder joint no longer makes contact and it crashes. There is nothing much you can do about this. Maybe try to reflow the entire main board again but no guarantees this will improve things. I'd try to return it to Aliexpress ASAP (open a case).

[pascal_sweden]

Did OP buy it as a new scope or as a second hand?

[dmgr]

hangs and on the cold, and can hang right after switching on, if you start to twist buttons

[dmgr]

New.
Bought in october 2017 in ali "Keysight Oscilloscope Store"

With the seller did not correspond, and late already.
And after the response of the Russian seller, upset and dismantled the oscilloscope .

[tautech]

hangs and on the cold, and can hang right after switching on, if you start to twist buttons

From Siglent tech support:
I had saw his video . It seems a bug.  We are trying to reappear it.  Do you have the customer's email address or let him feedback to this email( support@siglent.com). We will find out this problem and solve it.

Please send them an email.
They will want SN# and any further info if you can get it from the System info menu page.

[Old Printer]

DMGR,  Why did you buy a new scope from someone on AliExpress rather than a well known dealer with some history? I would think buying a new Siglent scope from a dealer who calls himself Keysight would be a red flag right away.

[dmgr]

DMGR,  Why did you buy a new scope from someone on AliExpress rather than a well known dealer with some history? I would think buying a new Siglent scope from a dealer who calls himself Keysight would be a red flag right away.

I can not know all the details, but sds1202x-e already sold half a year on aliexpress. And I bought a week when they all disappeared there, I would even say that all the siglent oscilloscopes on aliexpress have disappeared.

analog sds1202x-e (akip-4131/2) is sold in Russia for $ 660 against $ 380 at that time on ali

[dmgr]

hangs and on the cold, and can hang right after switching on, if you start to twist buttons

From Siglent tech support:
I had saw his video . It seems a bug.  We are trying to reappear it.  Do you have the customer's email address or let him feedback to this email( support@siglent.com). We will find out this problem and solve it.

Please send them an email.
They will want SN# and any further info if you can get it from the System info menu page.

ок, already sent

[Old Printer]

DMGR,  Why did you buy a new scope from someone on AliExpress rather than a well known dealer with some history? I would think buying a new Siglent scope from a dealer who calls himself Keysight would be a red flag right away.

I can not know all the details, but sds1202x-e already sold half a year on aliexpress. And I bought a week when they all disappeared there, I would even say that all the siglent oscilloscopes on aliexpress have disappeared.

analog sds1202x-e (akip-4131/2) is sold in Russia for $ 660 against $ 380 at that time on ali

That's a big temptation, I get it.  I hope Siglent does right by you, seems like they are listening now anyway.

[dmgr]

the received answer from support
"We have tested this issue you posted on the eevblog but it has not yet be reproduced. Please wait and we will send you an email if the issue has been reproduced."

for interest is another video

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FSRfg3KNEUz3tIeKXKJZlq3qc7zrCaOW/view?usp=sharing

at 3:40 min the oscilloscope freezes, but continues to show a signal.


...waiting for an answer...

[tautech]

Thanks for the vid.
So not a HW problem it would seem. 

[dmgr]

just in case the photos of the oscilloscope and the board, both before the washing out of the flux, and after

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17WXhoVSJry5Ruy8DDDsWxF3omuhvRl2N?usp=sharing

[iMo]

the received answer from support
"We have tested this issue you posted on the eevblog but it has not yet be reproduced. Please wait and we will send you an email if the issue has been reproduced."

If they were able to reproduce the issue all 1202x-e units world wide would be affected..

Did you try to refresh the firmware after the cleaning up the scope?

[dmgr]

the received answer from support
"We have tested this issue you posted on the eevblog but it has not yet be reproduced. Please wait and we will send you an email if the issue has been reproduced."

If they were able to reproduce the issue all 1202x-e units world wide would be affected..

 

[AndrewLoomis]

So I got a response back from Siglent about what was wrong with the 1202X-E I sent in for repair, and this is what they said:

"It looks to me like the keypad is bad. I swapped the mainboard and it did not repair it and I did not have any kepads so I gave you another unit from our demo pool."

...so it sounds like they really don't know what the problem was either.

[tautech]

So I got a response back from Siglent about what was wrong with the 1202X-E I sent in for repair, and this is what they said:

"It looks to me like the keypad is bad. I swapped the mainboard and it did not repair it and I did not have any kepads so I gave you another unit from our demo pool."

...so it sounds like they really don't know what the problem was either.

I would have thought it was pretty simple and self evident:
Front panel PCB.

I wonder if they even removed and visually inspected it ?
Could it have been physically damaged from an impact to the encoders......I guess we'll never know.

This is where the service manual comes up a bit short......there's no mention of the front panel PCB or any tests/checks to do on it. 
https://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/05/SDS1000X-E_ServiceManual_SM0101E-E01A.pdf
There's checks for the PSU, LCD and mainboard but no mention of the front panel PCB....like it doesn't exist. 
Siglent needs remedy this !


As far as swapping out the mainboard......why ? There's a range of checks to do in-situ without the need to swap it out. 

[dmgr]

Hi
It seems that there was no solution with the buttons.
In the reviews of one of the online stores in Ukraine, I found another person who lost buttons.
So the problem takes place and maybe it's the firmware.
https://electronoff.ua/good/ostsillograf-siglent-sds1202x-e-200-mgts.php
translate:
Alexander 16/02/2018 18:21

Acquired this unit SIGLENT SDS 1202X-E deficiencies is not detected except: the control buttons hang, you have to shut down forcedly from the network(electrical) to reboot.

[SteveOregon]

I swapped the mainboard and it did not repair it and I did not have any kepads so I gave you another unit from our demo pool."

There's a lot said in that statement.

I troubleshot hundreds of keyboard issues over multiple products (two different companies) over my 37-year career as an electronics tech, and keyboard issues were ALWAYS relatively easy to isolate to the component level. Keyboard lines are usually held high, until a key-press pulls it low. It's not rocket science.

Unfortunately, more and more, companies will train someone to swap major parts of a device, and NOT have a technician troubleshoot to component level (cost savings).  If this is a one-of-a-kind failure, root cause may not be important. But we hope Siglent would do root cause analysis on failures trends.

It also appears the troubleshooting didn't take place at the manufacturing plant, or the parts would have been available.

[dmgr]

Today I conducted another test.
FFT started the calculation from the built-in generator,
waited for the freezing of the readings of the FFT,
removed the probe from the generator, the signal disappeared.
FFT the picture has hung up.
I connected the dipstick to the generator, the signal appeared, the FFT also hangs.
But the buttons do not work either !!!.
That is, this is the case either in the firmware or in the main board.

[LaserTazerPhaser]

Bought mine from the actual siglent store and no issues.

[dmgr]

if I lived in the USA ... When I bought the oscilloscope, we did not have them in Russia, from the word absolutely. Then they began to sell, but twice as expensive. Our customs can not miss them, because according to our law, only firms can buy them abroad.
Therefore, especially the choice to buy for 350 dollars an oscilloscope with such parameters was not.

[pascal_sweden]

Demopool? So you traded a new unit for a used unit? Is that standard Siglent practice? I would not accept this approach myself personally!

So I got a response back from Siglent about what was wrong with the 1202X-E I sent in for repair, and this is what they said:

"It looks to me like the keypad is bad. I swapped the mainboard and it did not repair it and I did not have any kepads so I gave you another unit from our demo pool."

...so it sounds like they really don't know what the problem was either.

[dmgr]

Hey.
I fixed the problem with turning off the buttons and freezing the oscilloscope. Had to replace the DDR3 memory chip U65

[tautech]

Hey.
I fixed the problem with turning off the buttons and freezing the oscilloscope. Had to replace the DDR3 memory chip U65

Great, good job. 

Would you mind posting the pt# of the chip so to help others that might have problems in the future ?

[dmgr]

in my case, the chip U65
DDR3 Micron D9MNJ

[HallmanLabs]

I thought I was having this issue with my scope and wrote out a long reply. However, I fixed it before I hit post, haha.

The issue I was having was I plugged in my CAT6 to capture screens of the scope, but I didn't update the IP address of the scope to match the app (moved recently). When I opened up the FFT with a pure sine wave coming in, it would freeze every time after about 2 minutes. Then I realized the IP error and I went in there first (turning off FFT after restart) and after I corrected that, I no longer have the button freeze issue.

This is still an issue that Siglent should address though. It was doing this before I ever opened up the application in Windows and even if someone has the IP wrong, it shouldn't freeze up the entire button assembly, forcing you to pull the plug.

It has to do with FFT + external I/O that is causing this to happen. Hopefully they figure it out soon.

[tautech]

I thought I was having this issue with my scope and wrote out a long reply. However, I fixed it before I hit post, haha.

The issue I was having was I plugged in my CAT6 to capture screens of the scope, but I didn't update the IP address of the scope to match the app (moved recently). When I opened up the FFT with a pure sine wave coming in, it would freeze every time after about 2 minutes. Then I realized the IP error and I went in there first (turning off FFT after restart) and after I corrected that, I no longer have the button freeze issue.

This is still an issue that Siglent should address though. It was doing this before I ever opened up the application in Windows and even if someone has the IP wrong, it shouldn't freeze up the entire button assembly, forcing you to pull the plug.

It has to do with FFT + external I/O that is causing this to happen. Hopefully they figure it out soon.

Thanks for your feedback. 
Can you please state which firmware version you have installed ?