Choosing between Fluke 179/177 vs Keysight U1242C vs Fluke 87V?

[Al75]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for new multimeter. My old Mastech MY68 has been give up. So I would like to get a new, good, precise and reliable handheld multimeter. 

Now I am trying to choose between Fluke 179/177 or Keysight U1242C. Ok, Fluke is Fluke: minimum functions, maximum price, reliability etc. But what about Keysight? There are not so much detailed info on internet about Keysight's...
The DMM will be use for general & automotive applications mainly.

By other hand I saw brand new Fluke 87V for 280...300€ on ebay... The new one from reliable source in Germany costs 390...400€, VAT19% included.

Therefore I have a couple of questions:

1) what is your advice for "best DMM in the world" on budget of the 200...300€?
2) what DMM do you choose from those: Fluke 179/177, Keysight U1242C, Fluke 87V?
3) How safe buying a "brand new" Fluke on ebay is? What a common issues would be?

[2N3055]

1) what is your advice for "best DMM in the world" on budget of the 200...300€?
2) what DMM do you choose from those: Fluke 179/177, Keysight U1242C, Fluke 87V?
3) How safe buying a "brand new" Fluke on ebay is? What a common issues would be?

For electronics:

1) what is your advice for "best DMM in the world" on budget of the 200...300€?

Brymen 869S

2) what DMM do you choose from those: Fluke 179/177, Keysight U1242C, Fluke 87V?

If only those options and if you could get really good 179, than F179. Otherwise see No 1.

3) How safe buying a "brand new" Fluke on ebay is? What a common issues would be?

No common issues. Biggest problem is abuse or defective/damaged unit. If you get one that wasn't damaged it will be pretty much perfect. But you never know.

If you want safe/accurate meter, repair needs experience and tools. Not for beginners.

[Al75]

Found a pretty nice offer on ebay. Seller saying that Fluke 87V new, safe and sound. All working, no changed parts. 100% positive seller's rating. Agree for full refund if there issues reveals.

[Al75]

Any else opinions?

[bd139]

Go for the 87V if you can. I had a U1241C and I don't rate it anywhere as good as the 87V.

I paid around €150 equivalent for my 87V though new with cal cert but I was lucky as hell.

Edit: here was my YouTube review of the two comparing out of the box hold feature. Very short and to the point.

[Hydrawerk]

Oh, what was wrong with your U1241C?? Is there a problem with Hold function?

[Hydrawerk]

I like my BM829S. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOOMDMWC5v91DynTNsacOdhD2z0NdLvhGgniEyp-0ai8YjG3wpgyQpdN-z1d8MOww?key=Y2w3Q3lacVkwTUpzUkctR1NCLW9PbUMxdFhRLXRR
I am not sure if it is best for the price, but I do like the LoZ / AutoCheck function.

Keysight DMMs should be OK, but I have never used any.
Fluke 87V might not have a good overvoltage protection.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/3025/
Please ask the forum member named joeqsmith.
But I like the Fluke 87V's AutoHold feature.

[Hydrawerk]

I used a Fluke 289 in my previous work. I was quite happy with that.

[bd139]

Oh, what was wrong with your U1241C?? Is there a problem with Hold function?

Just the auto hold feature is crap. You can configure it in one of the menus so it is less crap but it's still nowhere near as good as the Fluke which just works. That's what you're paying for.

I have a BM867S as well. That's pretty good. But no autohold!

Most of the time I use one of my Fluke 8010A units however.

[Al75]

Data transfer to PC in U1242C seems pretty interesting feature to me. How actual it is in practice? Fluke has it on 287/289 only. It is out of my bill.

[bd139]

I didn't use the keysight software because my platform of choice is MacOS X so there is no software! It's a Prolific USB serial adapter with IR port. It uses undocumented but standard SCPI commands to talk to it so you can bodge up your own stuff easy enough:



It is definitely good for PC connectivity. The irritating general purpose use cases though are a bit of a pain. I use automation perhaps once a year at the moment so I just don't need it. Compromise for me was better with the 87V. I have bought a BM867s and will buy the USB-IR cable for that when I need to do some automation next time.

[rsjsouza]

In my opinion, in terms of features the order is: 87V > U1242C > 179.

In terms of robustness, I think the 87V and the 179 (which I had) are equivalent. I have other models from Keysight and you can tell they are a notch below.

I liked my 179 and it excels at what it does, but it is a basic meter.

I don't know the U1242C autohold but, if it is similar to the other U1282A and U1273A and configurable via a setup menu, it is excellent.

If you need connectivity, Keysight has pretty reasonably priced adapters and the software is free of charge. The other alternative pointed by Sinisa, the Brymen BM867, also has this feature.

[bd139]

The U124xC stuff is configurable by set up but I couldn't get it to work anywhere as near as well as the default configuration on the 87V. The video I posted earlier was an argument in favour of sensible defaults

[Al75]

I heard about that Fluke 87V is discontinued. Is it true?

[bd139]

Don't think so. All major suppliers list it as current line.

[MiroS]

I own quite a few multimeters so here is my experience

FK87V  - that one is OK for electricians , it is doing only  VERY, VERY  basic staff, it is USELESS for several BASIC electronic mesurements which are  needed even for simple repairs like FM tunner repair. If I  would do something with car  - I will take FK87V, but not for electronics,  even a cheap Unit-y multimeter is sometime a better choice than FK87V.  FK87V is also quite BAD with measuring LOW values like for small current.

U1242C - that one has only 10000 digits therefore useless for plenty of electronic tasks/repairs, even worst that FK87V.

Fluke 179/177 - that one is also for electricians, almost useless for electronics.

BM869S  -  that one is quite OK . I would only complain small rotary switch, which is hard to switch, strange location of bargraph at very, very botom anf  not the best backlight. I take from my shelf something worst with meaurement than BW869S because this anoing rotary switch/backlight.

[mzacharias]

Fluke 87V might not have a good overvoltage protection.

That was Joe's experience with ONE sample. Another 87V did not exhibit this, and his original passed the tests once repaired. He never did find out why the first one failed the way it did.

Maybe simply a defective component?

[bd139]

FK87V  - that one is OK for electricians , it is doing only  VERY, VERY  basic staff, it is USELESS for several BASIC electronic mesurements which are  needed even for simple repairs like FM tunner repair. If I  would do something with car  - I will take FK87V, but not for electronics,  even a cheap Unit-y multimeter is sometime a better choice than FK87V.  FK87V is also quite BAD with measuring LOW values like for small current.

Not sure what you're doing specifically but I'm using mine for electronics repair (specialist test gear) and RF / transmitter design. The thing is totally bomb proof, does mV/uA DC measurements perfectly fine and does everything fast and reliably. Count is fine for most tasks. It's absolutely spot on for ALL purposes which is the advantage of the thing. I can be sitting there measuring leakage one minute, then fixing the dryer the next minute. There's a huge amount of value in that.

As I said earlier I use one of my Fluke 8010A units, which is far lesser specified meter but incredibly convenient.

I have a BM867S and the 87V is a way better meter for every day use.

[EEVblog]

The new-ish Brymen BM839 is designed to compete directly with the Fluke 87V, I have one on my bench now for evaluation (possible rebadge), EU$169 from Welectron.

[EEVblog]

U1242C - that one has only 10000 digits therefore useless for plenty of electronic tasks/repairs, even worst that FK87V.

Nothing at all wrong with a 10000 digit meter.
If you need more resolution, sure, buy more, but it's hardly "useless"

[EEVblog]

I heard about that Fluke 87V is discontinued. Is it true?

No way they would discontinue their highest selling meter.

[Hydrawerk]

The new-ish Brymen BM839

I am not sure why I would buy a BM839 instead of BM869s, if I want a high resolution. Someone might like that it is powered by 4 AA cells. 

[Hydrawerk]

BM869S  -  that one is quite OK . I would only complain small rotary switch

Yes, the switch could be bigger. I think that most Flukes have a better rotary switch. But I am quite happy with my BM829S.

[Al75]

How safe is buy "brand new" Fluke 87V on EbayUK for ~300€? Seller reputation looks good, by reviews sold Flukes before.

[rsjsouza]

The new-ish Brymen BM839 is designed to compete directly with the Fluke 87V, I have one on my bench now for evaluation (possible rebadge), EU$169 from Welectron.

They will be very successful if they keep Brymen's excellent feature that recalls prior settings - something the 87V lacks by defaulting to AC.

The new-ish Brymen BM839

I am not sure why I would buy a BM839 instead of BM869s, if I want a high resolution. Someone might like that it is powered by 4 AA cells. 

TCO could be significant favourable for Brymen depending on the country: a 9V battery can have a significantly higher cost when compared to AAs - not to mention the longer lifespan.

Obviously that 3 year warranty is something that pales in comparison to Fluke's lifetime.

[2N3055]

FK87V  - that one is OK for electricians , it is doing only  VERY, VERY  basic staff, it is USELESS for several BASIC electronic mesurements which are  needed even for simple repairs like FM tunner repair. If I  would do something with car  - I will take FK87V, but not for electronics,  even a cheap Unit-y multimeter is sometime a better choice than FK87V.  FK87V is also quite BAD with measuring LOW values like for small current.

Not sure what you're doing specifically but I'm using mine for electronics repair (specialist test gear) and RF / transmitter design. The thing is totally bomb proof, does mV/uA DC measurements perfectly fine and does everything fast and reliably. Count is fine for most tasks. It's absolutely spot on for ALL purposes which is the advantage of the thing. I can be sitting there measuring leakage one minute, then fixing the dryer the next minute. There's a huge amount of value in that.

As I said earlier I use one of my Fluke 8010A units, which is far lesser specified meter but incredibly convenient.

I have a BM867S and the 87V is a way better meter for every day use.

I personally agree with MiroS. I find BM869S much better for electronics use. I had 87V and sold it after I purchased BM869S.
F87V is industry standard for electricians and industrial environments. For electronics,Fluke 287/9 is more to the point.
Best Fluke for electronics was F189.
F87V only function that some people cannot live without is AutoHold. I never use it, it's too slow for me. Pretty much tried it and never used it again.
I'm so used to normal probe/look technique that is same for the scope and the meter.

 It is personal, and heavily depends on what are your habits and process.
Regards,

[Hydrawerk]

Not a problem for me, but Brymen has no specified drop resistance.
Fluke 87V is 1m drop resistant. I think that its input jacks are more durable than those on Brymen.
Brymen also does not have a good (magnetic) hanger. But i do not need that.

[bd139]

U1241C wins hands down here. It has 3m drop and IP67. Thing is indestructible.

[rsjsouza]

It is similar to the U1282A then - although I would never deliberately test this (my disposable income for meters is not that high)

[EEVblog]

The new-ish Brymen BM839

I am not sure why I would buy a BM839 instead of BM869s, if I want a high resolution. Someone might like that it is powered by 4 AA cells. 

The idea is that if you are considering the Fluke 87V then the BM839 is a direct competitor with the same 20,000 resolution at much lower price.
That's what Brymen released it for, to compete directly with the 87V.

I'm having a hard time seeing how it would fit into the retail pricing structure though. Sure it's cheaper than the 869, but not that much cheaper.
There is also a BM836 but you lose the temp probe which kinda sucks. If the BM839 was the same wholesale price as the BM836 then I think it might sell pretty well.

[EEVblog]

The new-ish Brymen BM839 is designed to compete directly with the Fluke 87V, I have one on my bench now for evaluation (possible rebadge), EU$169 from Welectron.

They will be very successful if they keep Brymen's excellent feature that recalls prior settings - something the 87V lacks by defaulting to AC.

[/quote]

Funny thing about that, I implemented the same feature on the 121GW meter and I get a lot of complaints about it 

[bd139]

Yeah that annoys the crap out of me in my BM867S.

You have to work out what state it is in to get it into the state that you need. That means you have to use your brain instead of muscle memory. Slows you down.

However 87V defaulting to AC is a PITA when I mostly do DC measurements.

Perhaps that’s why I reach for the 8010A so much.

[joeqsmith]

They will be very successful if they keep Brymen's excellent feature that recalls prior settings - something the 87V lacks by defaulting to AC.

Funny thing about that, I implemented the same feature on the 121GW meter and I get a lot of complaints about it 

The question is are the people complaining the majority or not.   Personally, I really like that feature on the Brymen meters.  I guess you could start a poll.

[2N3055]

They will be very successful if they keep Brymen's excellent feature that recalls prior settings - something the 87V lacks by defaulting to AC.

Funny thing about that, I implemented the same feature on the 121GW meter and I get a lot of complaints about it 

The question is are the people complaining the majority or not.   Personally, I really like that feature on the Brymen meters.  I guess you could start a poll.

I agree on all three counts.

[joeqsmith]

Fluke 87V might not have a good overvoltage protection.

That was Joe's experience with ONE sample. Another 87V did not exhibit this, and his original passed the tests once repaired. He never did find out why the first one failed the way it did.

Maybe simply a defective component?

Even that doesn't make a lot of sense in the way it was damaged.  Maybe something on the board.  See my last post if interested:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/3050/

I did look at the BM839.  It's not a bad meter.  It's very robust like every other Brymen product I have looked at, unlike a lot of that cheap crap being sold.   I had that meter up at 12KV before it finally went.  There are not many meters that have survived that sort of punishment. 
 Having used and abused the 869s for a few years now, with their basic feature set and low cost, I didn't see the point.  I would rather spend the extra and get the 869s.  It's just a nice basic meter for my electronics hobby.   We all have different requirements.   My feelings wouldn't be hurt if you instead went with a free Harbor Freight meter.    Buy the best tool for YOUR needs. 

Meters never get treated very well in my reviews.   
https://youtu.be/bNzd5wo6FWU

[1anX]

Oh, what was wrong with your U1241C?? Is there a problem with Hold function?

Just the auto hold feature is crap. You can configure it in one of the menus so it is less crap but it's still nowhere near as good as the Fluke which just works. That's what you're paying for.

I have a BM867S as well. That's pretty good. But no autohold!

Most of the time I use one of my Fluke 8010A units however.

The BM867S has Hold but not Auto-Hold as you say. It does has a Rec mode which updates automatically the Max, Min and Ave, would this perform the Auto function you want?

I just got the BM867S and like you am impressed by its performance!

[bd139]

Unfortunately no. When I am using auto hold I want it to sample the voltage at a point and take a reading. Then I can go hands free and write it down without having to remember it etc. The grab the probes and do another reading and do the same etc. A recent thing I did was binning over 100 diodes for matching. This was a bit laborious but autohold shaved about 20% off the job as it was just wired into the test jig. Press the test button (push to make, applies power to current source), write it down, remove the diode, new one in, press test button again etc. Because it dropped to zero in that window and then back up to the diode drop then fluke would pick up the changes. I didn't have to touch the meter once and I could record the diode voltage with my right hand while I was pulling the diode with the left hand.

Min/max/average is for looking at voltage trends so for example if you have something that is dropping out periodically you can get an idea of how often with the average and what to with the min etc.

[001]

Unfortunately no. When I am using auto hold I want it to sample the voltage at a point and take a reading. Then I can go hands free and write it down without having to remember it etc. The grab the probes and do another reading and do the same etc. A recent thing I did was binning over 100 diodes for matching.

Sorry for offtop
but what is diode matching?

[bd139]

Mostly worth ignoring. Special case when a cheap ass like me doesn't want to pay lots of money for some minicircuits RF mixers. So you take 4x 1n4148's and match them for close forward voltage by applying 1mA through them and measuring the voltage drop. When you get 4 close, build a mixer with it. Close tolerance is required because the characteristics of the mixer are partially defined by the quality of the diode match.

[001]

Mostly worth ignoring. Special case when a cheap ass like me doesn't want to pay lots of money for some minicircuits RF mixers. So you take 4x 1n4148's and match them for close forward voltage by applying 1mA through them and measuring the voltage drop. When you get 4 close, build a mixer with it. Close tolerance is required because the characteristics of the mixer are partially defined by the quality of the diode match.

WOW
amazing

[bd139]

Way off topic but video here:

[rsjsouza]

The new-ish Brymen BM839 is designed to compete directly with the Fluke 87V, I have one on my bench now for evaluation (possible rebadge), EU$169 from Welectron.

They will be very successful if they keep Brymen's excellent feature that recalls prior settings - something the 87V lacks by defaulting to AC.

Funny thing about that, I implemented the same feature on the 121GW meter and I get a lot of complaints about it 

People are weird.

You have to work out what state it is in to get it into the state that you need. That means you have to use your brain instead of muscle memory. Slows you down.

To me muscle memory is a recipe for disaster - perhaps because I work on medium/high power systems (relative to electronics, not power distribution) and also with some very expensive boards.

[MiroS]

U1242C - that one has only 10000 digits therefore useless for plenty of electronic tasks/repairs, even worst that FK87V.

Nothing at all wrong with a 10000 digit meter.
If you need more resolution, sure, buy more, but it's hardly "useless"

Dave, sure nothing wrong with 10000, but for electronics  I wolud say 50000 is minimum. Those days even 10000 for car electrician it may be too short, eg. for some AMG car battery charging circuit  15.000 and 15.002V makes a significant difference  ...  which is clearly out of that range not mentioning plenty of typical examples from electronics world.

[EEVblog]

Dave, sure nothing wrong with 10000, but for electronics  I wolud say 50000 is minimum. Those days even 10000 for car electrician it may be too short, eg. for some AMG car battery charging circuit  15.000 and 15.002V makes a significant difference  ...  which is clearly out of that range not mentioning plenty of typical examples from electronics world.

Try measuring say 6V with your 50,000 count meter, oops, it's now no better than that 10,000 count meter. Both show 6.000

[Hydrawerk]

Any opinion on Appa DMMs? They should be OK, but they are not so popular on this forum. I have never used any.

[rsjsouza]

Dave, sure nothing wrong with 10000, but for electronics  I wolud say 50000 is minimum. Those days even 10000 for car electrician it may be too short, eg. for some AMG car battery charging circuit  15.000 and 15.002V makes a significant difference  ...  which is clearly out of that range not mentioning plenty of typical examples from electronics world.

Try measuring say 6V with your 50,000 count meter, oops, it's now no better than that 10,000 count meter. Both show 6.000

I agree with others; to say 10000 is useless is an exaggeration; countless things can be done in electronics with the ICL7106 or 6000 counts.

Where is the limit then? My donkey's years old BM857 has a 500000 count mode that is excellent for battery charging trends which, coupled with its datalogging, makes quite an excellent solution for a very specific application. A much wider range of electronics applications exist that can benefit from lesser counts.

[joeqsmith]

What's all this count rubbish?  I started with a VTVM then my trusty Radio Shack analog meter.  The free HF meter would have been a big step up.

[Electro Detective]

Any opinion on Appa DMMs? They should be OK, but they are not so popular on this forum. I have never used any.

I scored an unloved APPA 99III Multimeter a while back and I would say it fits somewhere between a Fluke 117 and Fluke 87V in features and performance.
It hasn't got the 87V AC bandwidth but pretty much does everything else, and the compared readings agree. The APPA cable/probes are hard to beat and a lot better than the bog standard Fluke leads.

 
FWIW to the original poster upstairs:  A Fluke 87V, 87-111 and original 87 are a great all rounder meter and won't disappoint.  Easy to use and look the business too

Coupled with any reasonable TRMS AC+DC clamp meter with some DMM features on board, you're pretty well covered for many/most scenarios.

Just keep them away from bug zappers and barbeque starters 
or string together nine x 10meg resistors in series with the positive lead as I do for those special HV low current DC occasions 
It might set you back a dollar or two, still cheaper that taking out a pricey multimeter. 
 

[2N3055]

On question of count, it really depends how much resolution you really need and what you do..
If you do lot of measurements at 12V than 2xx..... is better than 1xx.... if you do 24V than 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 as first digit will be better.
Or it might not be important, because you really don't need 8 decimal places of detail...

Long scale in handhelds is also a bit of suspicious. Most of them measure down to microvolts and milliohms, where you already have errors from cabling, thermals, external fields...

Little nuggets from Fluke calibration manual for F87/89 IV series:

".. Because of capacitive coupling, readings will be affected by movement of the leads or
operator. Put fingers on UP button and wait for display reading to settle before pushing.
.. Wait at least 60 seconds for source and meter to settle before recording reading.
.. Using Relative Mode (REL) to zero residual reading (apply 0 Ω and allow UUT to settle for 45 seconds before
pushing REL). "

All that to achieve 4.5 digits meter specs. So measuring on car, in 10°C (or 45°C in summer) to some precision would be questionable to more than first few digits.

[rsjsouza]

What's all this count rubbish?  I started with a VTVM then my trusty Radio Shack analog meter.  The free HF meter would have been a big step up.

You started fancy there. Mine was an ICE Supertester 680R 20kΩ/V. 

[bd139]

Pah you lot and your fancy meters. Mine had 2 entire KΩ per volt.

If you put it inside a battery transistor radio the battery would go flat on the radio before you got a reading. It could measure frequency though by counting the puffs of smoke when you put it on the mains 

[rsjsouza]

Hahaha! Gotta love the accuracy: "This battery is still new, it reads 1.5V! No, wait... 1.4... 1.3... "

[2N3055]

Pah you lot and your fancy meters. Mine had 2 entire KΩ per volt.

If you put it inside a battery transistor radio the battery would go flat on the radio before you got a reading. It could measure frequency though by counting the puffs of smoke when you put it on the mains 

LOL puffs of smoke....

I guess I had the fancy one...


It's missing a gun turret to make it a tank. And by carrying it around you got a daily workout too....
But it was 50k/V, and was quite advanced. And it is still in spec...

[joeqsmith]

I watched Dave's interview with the old man where he had rolled his own analog meter. 

One of the first things I ever made with a microcontroller was a power supply.   I used a VFD out or some sort of timer for the display.   It could display current and voltage using an 8-bit SAR ADC.    That was about as close as I got to making my own meter.   Even the basic panel meters they give away for a couple of bucks would far exceed the performance.   

[MiroS]

Dave, sure nothing wrong with 10000, but for electronics  I wolud say 50000 is minimum. Those days even 10000 for car electrician it may be too short, eg. for some AMG car battery charging circuit  15.000 and 15.002V makes a significant difference  ...  which is clearly out of that range not mentioning plenty of typical examples from electronics world.

Try measuring say 6V with your 50,000 count meter, oops, it's now no better than that 10,000 count meter. Both show 6.000

Well  6V is not 15V right ?  Higher voltage for power devices and very precise control over  low voltage. it seems to be now constant trend .

[joeqsmith]

You are right.  Sometimes 10K counts just won't cut it and you need to pull out a bigger hammer.   Getting ready to make some measurements and testing the jig with an IET standard. 


Another home made AC volt meter.  It makes me want to roll my own.  I bet I could improve on my first VA meter.   

https://youtu.be/pikTXYkwvP4

[Electro Detective]

What's all this count rubbish?  I started with a VTVM then my trusty Radio Shack analog meter.  The free HF meter would have been a big step up.

You started fancy there. Mine was an ICE Supertester 680R 20kΩ/V.

Hey, I've still got my Tandy/Radio Shack analog meter 20,000 something? ... somewhere...

A big purchase back in the day, bundled with a battery checker and 25 watt soldering iron, ready for anything electronic to be fixed 

I'll bet it's still working (I took the battery out!  )  in spec, and I could use it a lot better (and safer) nowadays and get most stuff done

without needing the digital big guns   


(well, just for a day to prove a point or two.. to noobs and meter snobs  )

[Al75]

I guess I had the fancy one...

Woow! I had this Soviet made multimeter in my teen ages when Latvia was part of Soviet Union, yes!

[Hydrawerk]

I have a printed Conrad catalogue from year 2004. Fluke 179 is there! So bear in mind that it is an old product. It is only a 6000 count DMM.

[Valver]

I was considering buying the U1242C primarily because it has an AC coupled,  AC mV function. I work with audio tube amps and need to measure power supply ripple voltage. Neither the Brymen  BM235 nor the UT61E that I recently bought are capable of doing this. (Edit, OK, I just saw Joeqsmith's review of the Keysight U1231A so I don't think I'll go for the U1242C,  )

I would prefer buying the BM869 but I am not sure whether it will do the job. I am just referring to the AC voltage reading here, not AC+DC or Dual display. Any advice would be appreciated, if not, it's probably safer to go with an AC coupled meter.

Typically I need to measure between 10mvAC to 2vAC on a 500V DC  supply with .01 mV resolution.

Thank you kindly.   

[Mr. Scram]

I have a printed Conrad catalogue from year 2004. Fluke 179 is there! So bear in mind that it is an old product. It is only a 6000 count DMM.

If a model stays relevant this long, it''s probably fairly useful.

[bd139]

If a model stays relevant this long, it''s probably fairly useful.

Yes exactly that.

In this day and age we seem to have forgotten that a product can be 100% totally "done" and not need to be changed. We're being trained away from this becuase it fills the pockets of the manufacturers these days.

[paulbt]

Hi,

No need to make a brand new topic, I will just revive this one.

In the last days I compared Fluke 179 and Keysight U1241C (Fluke 87V is double the price so it has no reason to be here...)

                                     Fluke                           Keysight
backlight                           y                                  y (+flashlight)
K-type probe                      y                                  y (+ ambient temp on 2nd display)                               
Datalogging                       n                                  y
Autohold                           y                                   y (+configurable settle time)
counts                         6000 (6600)                       10000
VDC accuracy              0.09%+2 digits                    0.09%+2 digits
min-max-avg                     y                                  y
delta/null                           n                                 y
uA meas.                           n                                 y
freq. meas.                 y (for V and A)                    n ?
AC BW                           1KHz                               2KHz
autorange speed             very fast                         average
input protection             very good                         good?
drop-proof                        1m?                              3m
ingress protection         n/a (or low)                        IP67
price                              x money                          x - [10...20]%
warranty                     limited lifetime                    3 years

I was planning for the next year to buy the Fluke 179 (as 2nd dmm for electronics hobby), but after seeing that the Keysight offers more than the Fluke for less money, I think I will change my mind. I need to admit that some features are not really useful for me like: flashlight, AC measurements, high-end input protection, drop-proof, IP67 ... but even without them, I still see the same winner.

So is there anyone who has/had both these meters and can confirm my comparison and conclusion? or at least tell me (tell us) more about the Keysight one (user experience, bugs, robustness). The only review I've found is 2 hours long, but it's in french and there are no subtitles available

[Mr. Scram]

While I don't have experience with the U1241C I do have experience with the U1272A/U1273A and a few other Keysight handhelds. I adore Keysight's desktop kit but somehow I never really liked the handheld meters. No strong dislike either, but I find myself reaching for a Fluke 179 or 87V instead to see what's really going on. The features the Flukes have are well chosen and executed. I really like the autohold feature, which I don't think any other manufacturer does as well.

Initially I was very skeptical about the popularity of Fluke meters and felt they were an overpriced and underfeatured option. Then I won a cheapish 87V at an auction to sell on and was prepared to hate it but it won me over fairly quickly. I still own it and use it regularly as the daily driver. I like the 179 almost as much. My workload or preferences may differ from yours though, so your mileage may vary.

[rsjsouza]

I had a 179, a U1233A and currently have a 87V, 189, U1273A and U1282A.

IMO, if you intend to use the meters in a rough environment, both the 179 and the 87V win - they are solidly built and have a proven record of surviving (it is not uncommon to see beaten models of these two for sale that are still in spec). The 189 and the U1282A have a very solid feel as well, although a notch down from the other two. The U1233A and the U1273A feel a bit less solid of these but the build quality is still palpable.

With regards to features, the U1241C seems to have a well round collection of features. If it has Autohold, then it would be almost the same.

The U1272A/U1273A and U1281A/U1282A have autohold. The Keysights also win over the 189 in triggering options for datalogging, but that is another realm.

[Mr. Scram]

I had a 179, a U1233A and currently have a 87V, 189, U1273A and U1282A.

IMO, if you intend to use the meters in a rough environment, both the 179 and the 87V win - they are solidly built and have a proven record of surviving (it is not uncommon to see beaten models of these two for sale that are still in spec). The 189 and the U1282A have a very solid feel as well, although a notch down from the other two. The U1233A and the U1273A feel a bit less solid of these but the build quality is still palpable.

With regards to features, the U1241C seems to have a well round collection of features. If it has Autohold, then it would be almost the same.

The U1272A/U1273A and U1281A/U1282A have autohold. The Keysights also win over the 189 in triggering options for datalogging, but that is another realm.

In my experience the U1272A/U1273A autohold isn't anywhere near in the same league of those of the Flukes.

[bd139]

U1241C autohold is dire.

[paulbt]

U1241C autohold is dire.

Hi!
Can you please do a short video about this to show us why you consider it "dire"? Or maybe a comparison video between fluke and u1241c autohold? No need to speak or explain, just measure a voltage and a resistor with each one and we should notice the difference...

[bd139]

I actually did one ages ago wide by side with an 87V on this but Google terminated my account after they fucked up my GSuite account. I don’t own the meter any more. I ended up hitting it. It was the worst.

The hold window and threshold made it impossible to use plus it had a manual initiation required.

[Mr. Scram]

I actually did one ages ago wide by side with an 87V on this but Google terminated my account after they fucked up my GSuite account. I don’t own the meter any more. I ended up hitting it. It was the worst.

The hold window and threshold made it impossible to use plus it had a manual initiation required.

I was thinking of that video. Instant classic! 

[rsjsouza]

I had a 179, a U1233A and currently have a 87V, 189, U1273A and U1282A.

IMO, if you intend to use the meters in a rough environment, both the 179 and the 87V win - they are solidly built and have a proven record of surviving (it is not uncommon to see beaten models of these two for sale that are still in spec). The 189 and the U1282A have a very solid feel as well, although a notch down from the other two. The U1233A and the U1273A feel a bit less solid of these but the build quality is still palpable.

With regards to features, the U1241C seems to have a well round collection of features. If it has Autohold, then it would be almost the same.

The U1272A/U1273A and U1281A/U1282A have autohold. The Keysights also win over the 189 in triggering options for datalogging, but that is another realm.

In my experience the U1272A/U1273A autohold isn't anywhere near in the same league of those of the Flukes.

How so?

In my experience, the U1273A and the 87V have a fast enough Autohold with similar thresholds and both have, at times, failed to trigger an obvious discontinuity. The U1282A is the most erratic or the bundle.

[Fungus]

I was planning for the next year to buy the Fluke 179 (as 2nd dmm for electronics hobby), but after seeing that the Keysight offers more than the Fluke for less money, I think I will change my mind. I need to admit that some features are not really useful for me like: flashlight, AC measurements, high-end input protection, drop-proof, IP67 ... but even without them, I still see the same winner.

Have you looked at Brymen?  You'll be, like....

https://brymen.eu/product-category/multimetry/

[Shock]

I'd pass on the Keysight and Fluke 177. If you want something fully featured look at a new Brymen BM869s (I doubt you will find many of them secondhand).

The Fluke 87V are good meters, a little overpriced but they aren't really aiming at the hobbyist market. At the moment I have two Fluke 87V and a crusty looking 87, I paid next to nothing secondhand so it wasn't much of a sacrifice.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I had a 179, a U1233A and currently have a 87V, 189, U1273A and U1282A.

IMO, if you intend to use the meters in a rough environment, both the 179 and the 87V win - they are solidly built and have a proven record of surviving (it is not uncommon to see beaten models of these two for sale that are still in spec). The 189 and the U1282A have a very solid feel as well, although a notch down from the other two. The U1233A and the U1273A feel a bit less solid of these but the build quality is still palpable.

With regards to features, the U1241C seems to have a well round collection of features. If it has Autohold, then it would be almost the same.

The U1272A/U1273A and U1281A/U1282A have autohold. The Keysights also win over the 189 in triggering options for datalogging, but that is another realm.

I have a 179 and 1241A.

One thing I can tell you is that I prefer the Fluke to two reasons.

1) The Voltage-->shift for DC really annoys me on the Agilent. I mean, I understand why AC is the first setting, but gee it drives me bonkers trying to test DC and keep battery life which isn't that great nor convenient (4 AAs). The fluke has AC or DC mode. The range button is easy to find.

2) The fluke has a better light. Since I use meters away from the bench more often, I travel with the fluke. I keep the other one at home as a spare in case I do the unthinkable to the Fluke.

[nightfire]

I have a Fluke 179 at work and an Agilent u1272A at home for hobby use. IMHO the use case and target audience for those meters are different: When you need some really reliable multimeter for your toolbox that can also take some fall and rough handling in an industrial environment, go Fluke. My 179 is about >8 years old, inherited from a colleague before me, and recent calibration showed it still is very well within spec.
For electronic tinkering other brands like Agilent/Keysight or Brymen will offer more bang for buck. Comparing the build quality of my U1272A with a 179,  the 179 wins slightly.

[bd139]

179 is rather nice but missing uA range. If I was starting out again I’d have a 179 and 87V.

[paulbt]

I have a Fluke 179 at work and an Agilent u1272A at home for hobby use. IMHO the use case and target audience for those meters are different: When you need some really reliable multimeter for your toolbox that can also take some fall and rough handling in an industrial environment, go Fluke. My 179 is about >8 years old, inherited from a colleague before me, and recent calibration showed it still is very well within spec.
For electronic tinkering other brands like Agilent/Keysight or Brymen will offer more bang for buck. Comparing the build quality of my U1272A with a 179,  the 179 wins slightly.

Hi,

I usually do low voltage indoor electronics. You are right, U1272A may not be as happy with falls and rough handling as the Fluke may be. Now I'm wondering: is the U1241C (3m drop-proof and IP67) more physical robust than a Fluke 17x ?

In the meantime I'm still waiting for some opinions/corrections/additions on my comparison (page 3, reply #62)...

[Mr. Scram]

Hi,

I usually do low voltage indoor electronics. You are right, U1272A may not be as happy with falls and rough handling as the Fluke may be. Now I'm wondering: is the U1241C (3m drop-proof and IP67) more physical robust than a Fluke 17x ?

In the meantime I'm still waiting for some opinions/corrections/additions on my comparison (page 3, reply #62)...

See my post directly below yours.

[paulbt]

Hi,

I usually do low voltage indoor electronics. You are right, U1272A may not be as happy with falls and rough handling as the Fluke may be. Now I'm wondering: is the U1241C (3m drop-proof and IP67) more physical robust than a Fluke 17x ?

In the meantime I'm still waiting for some opinions/corrections/additions on my comparison (page 3, reply #62)...

See my post directly below yours.

Yup, I saw it yesterday, but it does not answer my question above. By "physical robustness" I mean case/display/internal assembly toughness  , not feature-wise robustness.

[nightfire]

Hi,

I usually do low voltage indoor electronics. You are right, U1272A may not be as happy with falls and rough handling as the Fluke may be. Now I'm wondering: is the U1241C (3m drop-proof and IP67) more physical robust than a Fluke 17x ?

In the meantime I'm still waiting for some opinions/corrections/additions on my comparison (page 3, reply #62)...

I never had a U1241C in my hand, but judging from the catalogue and pictures, the build quality should not be MUCH better than than of a Fluke 17x.

And: If you mostly work indoors (and not in an industrial environment), the build quality of a U1272 is more than sufficient for that task.

[paulbt]

Hi,

I usually do low voltage indoor electronics. You are right, U1272A may not be as happy with falls and rough handling as the Fluke may be. Now I'm wondering: is the U1241C (3m drop-proof and IP67) more physical robust than a Fluke 17x ?

In the meantime I'm still waiting for some opinions/corrections/additions on my comparison (page 3, reply #62)...

I never had a U1241C in my hand, but judging from the catalogue and pictures, the build quality should not be MUCH better than than of a Fluke 17x.

And: If you mostly work indoors (and not in an industrial environment), the build quality of a U1272 is more than sufficient for that task.

Hi,

You said it like "...should be a little (but not much) better than...", but I guess it's the other way round...
The U1272 is out of my expected budget, even if it is more suited for my intended use compared to the outdoor-ish U1241/2. For the extra money it also might have better specs and features than it's little brother, but to be honest I do not like the looks of it (reminds me of tall/slender women - not cute, not sexy).

[nightfire]

Lets say, I also would not buy a new U1272A because of lack of sufficient pocket money... I got mine used for a very good price. Otherwise I probably would have had a closer look at a german distributor that sells Brymen...

[Shock]

So have you looked at the Brymen BM869s yet?

[nightfire]

Well, yes- I got my U1272A at a similar price in a verrrry good condition ;-)
But: A BM829s would also very well answer my questions that i have, including datalogging...

[paulbt]

I have a 179 and 1241A.

One thing I can tell you is that I prefer the Fluke to two reasons.

1) The Voltage-->shift for DC really annoys me on the Agilent. I mean, I understand why AC is the first setting, but gee it drives me bonkers trying to test DC and keep battery life which isn't that great nor convenient (4 AAs). The fluke has AC or DC mode. The range button is easy to find.

2) The fluke has a better light. Since I use meters away from the bench more often, I travel with the fluke. I keep the other one at home as a spare in case I do the unthinkable to the Fluke.

I just read all the replies to this topic one more time and this just struck my eyes:

1) Only U1241A and U1241B have that annoying AC or DC volts range on the same position of the rotary switch. All the other Agilent/Keysight handhelds have separate VDC and VAC positions.
2) Some Keysights (including the U1241C that I wish to buy) have also illuminated keypad (which Fluke 177/179 does not have) and I think it could be more helpful in dark/low-light conditions.

I realized now that personal preference and usefulness plays a major role in choosing between a certain Fluke and a certain Keysight.

@Shock : Yup, I was looking for a Brymen a few months ago. The BM86x and BM82x are just too big for my table and have too many features that I do not need. I ended up picking the little BM235 which is more than enough for my needs and when I need extra digits and accuracy, I go for my bench dmm which is 238'000 counts.

[EEVblog]

@Shock : Yup, I was looking for a Brymen a few months ago. The BM86x and BM82x are just too big for my table and have too many features that I do not need. I ended up picking the little BM235 which is more than enough for my needs and when I need extra digits and accuracy, I go for my bench dmm which is 238'000 counts.

There is the new Brymen BM786 that is coming out shortly. Not as big as the BM869, but almost as accurate, 60,000 count, and extra features like AutoHold, BeepLit continuity and EF tester.