datron 1065 ebay win

[simonmc]

Well i could not help myself and won a Datron 1065 5 1/2 digit bench meter on ebay yesterday. I won it for £40 inc postage, but it does need a minor repair. So all in all i think i may have got myself a nice bench meter, ideal for a restoration/project. I will post some pics when it arrives.

As i did not know much about the 1065 i did a search and found that the 106x range from Datron all have alot in common, esp the 1061, 1061A and 1071 of which i have downloaded the manuals. I could not find any online for the 1065, which is a shame and if anyone has any please contact me. What i am particularly interested in is the physical differences between the 5 1/2  digit 1065 and 6 1/2 digit 1065A? This range seems ideally suited for hacking due to the autocal facility that 'eases' the calibration process and the fact it uses standard components. However, you will need the correct references for the range you wish to calibrate, and a 1M//1nf and a 10M//1nF 'shunts'.

As far as i can tell they seem to use the same boards, im hoping it may just be a change in firmware? If that is the case is there anybody out there with a 1065A that would be willing to readout thier eproms?  Or from any of the other models? It would be nice to have a 6 1/2 digit meter if its only a case of burning a couple of eproms and maybe some tweeks to the hardware plus a recal if needed.

Of cause it could also be a case of 'overthinking the new toy'!!

[simonmc]

Well the Datron has arrived and it works.. Below are some pics.

It seems that its a bit out of cal, compaired to my fluke 87 iii (2 year out of cal) and the uni-t which is (brand new this week) which is hard to see in my bad picture but are both reading 5.000. This unit was last calibrated in feb '03 so cant really blame it for being a bit out.

Also the 3 remaining binding posts are very worn, but as i have to replace one, i will replace all 4. Datron used Cliff binding posts which are still available. Whist i had the top cover off, i measured the battery for the memory which is at 3.7V so all seems good there. The dates on the eproms are October 1983, so this unit nearly 10 years younger than me!

Overall I am pleased with the meter, and now looking to see how it operates and how useful (and what) the features are. There are a few skuffs and scratches on the case and a bit of old sticker resudue, but it will clean up to be a serviceable bit of kit i hope.

Im also going to go through the 1061 service manual and look to see what is common. I also will like a cal key if anybody has one to copy. I assume that like solartrons, datron used the same key so that the cal labs did not have to keep a multitude of keys. I am still after a service manual for this model if anybody has one.

Simon

[mamalala]

Nice unit!

Keep in mind that when getting new binding posts, with such precission instruments the material is important, see the various precission voltage ref threads and similar here.

About the cal, it may well be that it isn't off. It shows 5.0029, while the others show 5.000. That is -2 or -3 digits for the handhelds. Look at their specs as for the accuracy of the selected range, and compare that to the error margins given for the more accurate Datron. For the handhelds, 0.1% FS would be 5mV here, the Datron shows roundabout half of that more. I'd say that this is very well within the specs for the handhelds then, assuming that the Datron is better

Greetings,

Chris

[simonmc]

About the cal, it may well be that it isn't off. It shows 5.0029, while the others show 5.000. That is -2 or -3 digits for the handhelds. Look at their specs as for the accuracy of the selected range, and compare that to the error margins given for the more accurate Datron. For the handhelds, 0.1% FS would be 5mV here, the Datron shows roundabout half of that more. I'd say that this is very well within the specs for the handhelds then, assuming that the Datron is better

Oh that's true. Did not think about that as i was being called for dinner. Fluke specs are +- 0.1% + 1 digit. Uni-t specs are +-0.1% + 2 digits. The only specs i could find for the 1065 are 0.0015% +-1 (Nice) , which are the 24 hour ones. Also the Datron did not really much time to warm up, as dinner was being dished up and well, you can guess the rest!

As to the material of the binding posts the service manual of the 1061 states they use Cliff posts. As to which ones i dont know. However the originals are  very worn, the nickel plate (or whatever it is) has all but gone on some of them. I guess i will have to have a look at the various suppliers and see what's available. I know cliff ones are stocked at Farnell.

Simon

[simonmc]

Well after a bit more digging into the actual 1065 and the 1061 service manual that KO4BB maintains on his site I have discovered that the analogue pcb does not contain any of the parts needed for the current pcb that is in the 1061. The analogue pcb is the same, just the relevant parts are unpopulated. This is not really surprising as it was never an option.

There is also no separate display driver PCB, like the 1061, this is dealt with, by having a dedicated (but obsolete) intel keyboard decoder and display IC on the front panel PCB. As this is programmed differently to the 1061 display PCB i doubt that the roms from a 1061 would work on a 1065. Also because of this i doubt that fitting a current card would work as the routines are probably not in the firmware as an current button is not fitted or is there any 'unpopulated' area's to fit one.

The digital card also has 1 part missing that is on the 1061 diagrams. This is an eprom which is unpopulated. I'm guessing that as the card is the same as the other models such as the 1071 the extra eprom is needed for the extra maths routines and measurements software. I would love to get a copy of the eproms from the 1061 or 1071 as the processor in these meters is a 6800 and that processor is what we use in collage many moons ago to learn assembly. What i would REALLY like is a copy of the 1065A eproms. So far that looks like the only difference between the 2 models.

Whist I had it apart again i took the opportunity to clean all the old sticker residue of the front panel and to see how easy it would be to change to binding posts. It turns out that's a simple operation of unbolting the old and refitting the new one when i get them.

Attached is a pic of the cleaned front. Ignore the roll of huge solder i have it propped up on. its for photographic purposes.. 


 EDIT I should really remember to add the picture..
 

[croma641]

Hi,


I've got two 1065, years ago... At the and of next week I will copy the Eproms. I've got also one 1061 and one 1061a.

I'm another "desperate" in search of the 1065 cal. manual...

[mamalala]

Oh that's true. Did not think about that as i was being called for dinner. Fluke specs are +- 0.1% + 1 digit. Uni-t specs are +-0.1% + 2 digits. The only specs i could find for the 1065 are 0.0015% +-1 (Nice) , which are the 24 hour ones. Also the Datron did not really much time to warm up, as dinner was being dished up and well, you can guess the rest!

Yea, it's easy to forget these things. Another point is that in such instruments like the Datron, the references are usually of a much better quality. Plus, with instruments that have "aged", these references tend to become more stable.

As to the material of the binding posts the service manual of the 1061 states they use Cliff posts. As to which ones i dont know. However the originals are  very worn, the nickel plate (or whatever it is) has all but gone on some of them. I guess i will have to have a look at the various suppliers and see what's available. I know cliff ones are stocked at Farnell.

Simon

Whatever you do when changing them, keep one thing in mind:

This is a high accuracy instrument. Keep the boards clean at all cost, so to say. Handling them and keeping the grease of your fingers on them may have negative effects on the reults. That is to say, unless you can properly calibrate and adjust the instrument, try to keep touching the innards of it to a bare minimum. And if, clean it with pure alcohol afterwards.

Greetings,

Chris

[steve30]

That looks like a nice meter .

I see these crop up on ebay quite a lot, and usually for a low price. I guess they aren't very popular for some reason.

[simonmc]

This is a high accuracy instrument. Keep the boards clean at all cost, so to say. Handling them and keeping the grease of your fingers on them may have negative effects on the reults. That is to say, unless you can properly calibrate and adjust the instrument, try to keep touching the innards of it to a bare minimum. And if, clean it with pure alcohol afterwards.

The insides seem very clean. Fortunately to replace the binding posts there is lots of access to replace them and i will not have to disturb much. My checks yesterday were a purely visual 'spot the difference' exercise and nothing was disturbed. Even the front panel is just that, a separate aluminium panel with a big decal that fits over the binding posts and switches. That made cleaning very easy. I certainly wont go changing anything unless i am absolutely sure it is required and that the required equipment is available. That said i am very impressed with the build quality.

I see these crop up on ebay quite a lot, and usually for a low price. I guess they aren't very popular for some reason.

I have only had this meter a few hours and i have to say i like it. There does not seem to be any weird user interface problems, just buttons that do exactly what the label says they do. simple. I particularly like the 'spec' button. This displays the measurement spec or uncertainty based on the range setting, the reading and position of the calibration interval switch. I suppose they are quite bulky compared to say a HP34401A (for instance) or a Solartron 7150 which might be why they don't seem to go for much. It could be that they have just been overlooked and that the price is about to go up! I have to say i would like a 1061, 1061A or 1071 now, if i can find one that within my meagre budget!

I've got two 1065, years ago... At the and of next week I will copy the Eproms. I've got also one 1061 and one 1061a.

I'm another "desperate" in search of the 1065 cal. manual...

That would be good. Having copys of roms available make the repair of these older instuments much more possible. I hope some kind soul who has a copy of the manual will scan it for us.

     

[simonmc]

I have come across something that looks interesting. Looking at the 1071 service manual the circuit around the references is a bit more involved. There are more steps in the resister divider network that is used to set the value of the reference voltage. The boards are the same but the resistors R41 - R45 and R88 - R92 are all fitted to the 1071, whist only R42 - R43 and R89 - R90 are fitted on the 1065, 1061, and 1061A. Both the service manuals describe the step to set the reference voltage, however the voltage is set to a order of magnitude better on the 1071.

The values on the 1071 are R41=169R 1% 10ppm , R42=84R5 1% 15ppm , R43=42R2 1% 50ppm , R44=21R0 1% 50ppm , R45=10R5 1% 50ppm , R88=169R 1% 10ppm , R89=84R5 1% 15ppm , R90=42R2 1% 50ppm , R91=21R0 1% 50ppm , R92=10R5 1% 50ppm

On the 1061 et all:- R42=196R 1% 15ppm, R43=97R6 1% 50ppm, R89=196R 1% 15ppm, R90=97R6 1% 50ppm
EDIT.
I ment to say i have no idea what, if any, of the concequences of modifying the reference selection part of the circuit to the 1071 specs would do to a lesser model, so dont try if your not confident in recalibrating your meter. I posted this for information only

[GreyWoolfe]

If there is concern about handling, just get a cheap box of medium duty nitrile gloves.  I use these for everything from working on laser printers to automotive stuff.  It keeps me clean, and will keep the boards clean should you have to poke your hands into it.  As a side note, SWMBO and stepdaughter use them for hair dying bonding time.

[simonmc]

If there is concern about handling, just get a cheap box of medium duty nitrile gloves.

Thats a good idea. I have a couple of boxes in my other workshop. Thanks for reminding me.

I think Datron was bought out by wavetek. Which in turn is owned by fluke. I cant remember where i read that or if my subconscious made it up, but on the off chance I emailed flukes UK service centre to see if they had any info or a copy of the service manual.

[simonmc]

As i stated above i have been doing an in depth study of the analogue board in my 5 1/2 digit Datron 1065. So far i have not found any differences, (apart from the lack of current section) in the analogue board used in its 6 1/2 digit stable mates. There are quite a few differences in the BOM and circuit in the 7 1/2 digit boards. The same PCB however was used. It has been quite an interesting exercise comparing the circuits, especially seeing how the 7 1/2 digit board has been changed to improve it. The subtle additions of high ohm compensation resistors to 'nail' down this circuit for higher accuracy has been a great learning experience. 

Hi,
I've got two 1065, years ago... At the and of next week I will copy the Eproms. I've got also one 1061 and one 1061a.
I'm another "desperate" in search of the 1065 cal. manual...

If when you copy the roms, another interesting verification of my above theory would be to record what the numbers written on the eproms are in the 1061 and the 1061A, and also the part numbers of the analogue boards. This is the first part of the number before the dash, hand written on the serial number label. If they are the same, all else being equal, it means that the boards used in the 1065 are a orders of magnitude better than they 'need' to be. Its a shame that there isnt anyone out there with a 1065A to help with my neardy quest .

I did however get a very nice email back from the people at fluke which surprised me as its a bank holiday here in the uk. It was basically a copy of an email sent out to the 'team' to see if the information i required ( a service manual) was available! 

[xantia_99]

Hi
I just refurbished a Datron 1061 and have a small thought to continue with upgrade to 1061A or 1071.
It work very well.
I have the documentation I need.

But I need the Rom content.

Does anyone have it ?
 

[ManateeMafia]

Do you have a programmer? I have a 1071 that is in need of repair, but it might take me several days to get to the ROMs. I have a few other items pending but it may be a week to get them copied and uploaded to KO4BB.

Send me a PM if I forget to get back to you.

I don't see the 1061 there either, if you can make a copy and upload them too, that would be great.

[xantia_99]

No I do not have a Eprom programmer as I used to have in the old days.

I have to ask some people that might have. I will probably get an answer in a week.
I was suppriced to get an answer so fast from the Forum.

It seems to be two of TMS 2532JL 4K*8 byte from National, read in manual, but i have not losen the label on the eproms  date 25/6/80

[ManateeMafia]

I made the backups and uploaded them to ko4bb. I have also attached them here for reference. I do not know the version since my display is broken and I have other meters to use.

Let us know when you get them fitted and what version it displays. There are three EPROMs on the digital board and one on the ieee gpib board. I searched the parts list and did not see any other EPROMs on the list.

Thankfully, Datron liked to socket their IC's.

[xantia_99]

Hi,

it looks like I failure to read my Eprom and write new ones with the code you send. The programmer I lend does not work and I have no idea where to get another Eprom programmer.
Sometimes it just don't work.

Best Regards

[xantia_99]

It looks like I need schematic and a service manual of Minato 1863 Eprom programmer.

Does anyone out there have such items ?

Best Regards

 http://www.timonradiosivut.fi/Minato_1863.html

[ThunderMink]

Old tread but just wondering if anyone have a copy of the 1065A eproms.
Just won an auction on Ebay a 1065 for 62€ wohoo and was thinking to try to mod it to a 1065A

And by the way xantia_99 what PC software are you using with the Minato 1863?? i have a Minato 1866 that i know is working but i have no software for it. 


//Mattias