Der EE DE-5000 Unboxing and Teardown

[robrenz]

@ DoDaMaffs

Go for it  I have no intentions of doing the split bananas.

[omgfire]

To OMGFIRE,
My understanding is that the blade and slot type connection is
a method of obtaining a kelvin type 2 x sense & 2 x source +
sheild and retaining electrical isolation between those points.
The blade is generaly double sided pcb.
A meter may also use banana jacks for 4 wire kelvin but would
then need 4 jacks plus sheild. As seen on the VA 520.

As I mentioned VA 520 has 6 bananas: 2 sense, 2 force, 2 shield. No problem here. But as I mentioned VA 520 also has a slot. If PCB is not inserted into slot, then slot might provide electrical connection between sense and force. What is the point of 6 banana jacks if VA 520 has electrical connection between sense and force inside meter due to slot?

[DoDaMaffs]

To OMGFIRE,
I now understand your question and I may not be the most
qualified to answer, but will do my best.
Yes you are correct, on my DE 5000 when the 4 wire blade
adaptor is removed the wipers make contact so a capacitor
or resistor may be inscerted directly into the slot.
We can only assume that the VA520 is the same.
With the adaptor inscerted the junction point then
becomes the end of the leads or clips.
 So to overcome the issue you would need to inscert a
dummy blank pcb or similar to use the banana jacks & leads.

As you probably already know 4 wire kelvin wiring is the adopted
method for minimising induced capacitance and resitance that
the test leads and probes introduce into the measurement.

Best of luck .....Pete

[DoDaMaffs]

Also, and you would know more than me about that meter
I dont know what outboard adaptors are available for the unit
but the unit may be designed for 2 pin onboard testing (slot)
and either 2 or 4 wire outboard testing (jacks)

May be someone on the forum has one......

Pete

[saturation]

Nice, thanks for the review and photos.

[ManateeMafia]

I came across this http://www.extech.com/instruments/product.asp?catid=56&prodid=723 a few days ago and wondered if it would fit the DE-5000. The biggest difference that I can see is that the Extech LCR200 has the guard and + inputs swapped with respect to the DE-5000. It shouldn't be a problem if you are left-handed.

It would be nice to know if a LCR200 owner could measure their input spacing.

I have not found any posts where someone has reviewed this option.

[PedroDaGr8]

Came across a great use for the device today. I have this old filter/inductor/choke from an old centrifuge. It is pretty large, I put it next to the DE5000 for comparison. There is pretty much no information but it was connected directly to mains. The iron laminations indicate as expected its a filter for mains frequency. I decided to see if I could get a reading on it at 120Hz.







So let's see how it does:







Clearly its a 10000uH inductor.,  but I also can characterize is DC resistance and series resistance.









We can also watch the inductance drop as the frequency increases.

By getting its various values I know enough about this inductor for it to be useful if I want to use it in a design. Surprise surprise an lcr is good for characterizing an inductor

[omgfire]

Got my DE-5000 from Japan 

[Co6aka]

I came across this ... and wondered if it would fit the DE-5000.

It fits, and more importantly it works. 

[radhaz]

Plastic Toy? I just ordered this plastic toy, hope I am amused, lol.

Got my DE-5000 from Japan 

[ManateeMafia]

I came across this ... and wondered if it would fit the DE-5000.

It fits, and more importantly it works. 

That's good to know. It looks like I will have to add this to my wish list. I just have to find a project to justify buying it.

[mstck]

Hi

This  is my first post in this forum. I really enjoy the topics and have learned a great deal by  just reading the posts so far. Thanks.
I purchased one of these meters after reading your comments and I am pleased with it so far.  I  have a question about the AC power supply. I am considering purchasing one and I wanted to know if there are any issues with the stock units available on eBay.  The socket  does not take the standard plug I have on a wall wart  I currently own.  Is there a suitable unit available from suppliers in the US?
I find the crock clips provided a bit short and inconvenient.  Can they be replaced with Slightly longer leads plugged into the banana sockets? I appreciate that I won't have the Kelvin connection at the crock tip, and I wonder if this would make a material difference in regular hobby use.  Do you have any recommendations for replacement kelvin leads. Thanks.

[omgfire]

Is there a suitable unit available from suppliers in the US?

http://www.ietlabs.com/de-5000-ac.html

I find the crock clips provided a bit short and inconvenient.  Can they be replaced with Slightly longer leads plugged into the banana sockets? I appreciate that I won't have the Kelvin connection at the crock tip, and I wonder if this would make a material difference in regular hobby use.  Do you have any recommendations for replacement kelvin leads. Thanks.

I don't see a reason to not have Kelvin clip, since they costs less than $5 http://www.ebay.com/itm//281348821931

Quote from Cyrustek ES51919/ES51920 datasheet:

The test leads for DUT should be as short as possible. If long extended cable is used, the guard shielding is necessary.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/shielded-cable-for-diy-kelvin-clips-for-de-5000-lcr-meter/

[mstck]

omgfire, Thanks for the information. one further question, Which cable did you decide to use to make your test lead?

[omgfire]

omgfire, Thanks for the information. one further question, Which cable did you decide to use to make your test lead?

I am lazy, so I used cable which I already had. Obviously, I can replace it with different cable if I need to.
If I was in US, I would go for shielded silicone wire. But at $30 overseas shipping, I pass.
I compared alligator vs kelvin clip a bit. In milliOhm scale alligators give unstable measurement on heavily oxidized contacts. Kelvin clip performs better.
I was surprised, that similar looking cheap DMM leads can have order of magnitude difference in resistance.

[caall99]

Just received my DER EE DE-5000 in the mail, needless to say I am impressed and happy! Very accurate and consistent readings relative to my cal'ed 3458A. It has successfully determined several capacitors to be faulty while taking readings in circuit. I used ESR primarily to determine wether or not a cap needs to be replaced.

Only small complaints i have are as follows:

1. The unit is pretty chunky and unattractive. Not that aesthetics matter that much... and honestly the DE-5000 is overbuilt if anything, which should lend to its long-term durability.

2. The LCD contrast is not that great. When looking at the screen top down the activated segments appear "dim". Best contrast is achieved when unit is sitting on its stand and you are looking at it from a 45 deg angle. The unit's backlight in conjunction with a dimly lit room further helps contrast.

3. The Kelvin alligator clip test leads could have used some nicer clips. The alligator clips are the same cheapies you can buy for pennies on the dollar from China. I would recommend DIY leads that interface to the adapter box. See robrenz's youtube channel for an AMAZING example! I will be making my own shortly.

BTW, my units PCB revision is version 8.

Overall 9.5/10! Buy this

[omgfire]

3. The Kelvin alligator clip test leads could have used some nicer clips.

Supplied alligators aren't Kelvin.

1. The unit is pretty chunky and unattractive. Not that aesthetics matter that much... and honestly the DE-5000 is overbuilt if anything, which should lend to its long-term durability.

Have you looked at Mastech MS5308? 

[caall99]

3. The Kelvin alligator clip test leads could have used some nicer clips.

Supplied alligators aren't Kelvin.

1. The unit is pretty chunky and unattractive. Not that aesthetics matter that much... and honestly the DE-5000 is overbuilt if anything, which should lend to its long-term durability.

Have you looked at Mastech MS5308? 

They sure do look quite "kelvin" to me from the tear downs i have seen. The "sense" and "force" leads go all the way to the alligators clips for each clip. I will open it up and confirm that information tonight. I might also just be confusing the tear down of the tweezers with the alligator adapter.

EDIT: Watched Dave's teardown again. The the kelvin connection stops at the alligator clip. Force and Sense are not split into the respective "halves" of the alligator clips. Not a real kelvin connection after all, but easy enough to DIY some really nice leads for it.

[robrenz]

It is not a true Kelvin connection unless the source and sense only connect on the DUT lead.  The DE-5000 alligators connect source and sense at the alligator hinge joint therefore not a true kelvin connection but better than no 4 wire at all.

[crystal]

I have this meter, what setting are best to apply when measuring capacitors in circuit?

[kripton2035]

I use auto mode, except for big capacitors you get a "----" result
then you may lower the frequency of measurment to 1KHz
if you want to measure esr only, then you can choose "Rs" mode it works also with quite big cpacitors.

[crystal]

I use auto mode, except for big capacitors you get a "----" result
then you may lower the frequency of measurment to 1KHz
if you want to measure esr only, then you can choose "Rs" mode it works also with quite big cpacitors.

Big ones are not that problem to remove from the board and test them properly. But the small ones are problem you can't remove them all from the board, I need to test them on board. I don't care, D or ESR measurement anything that will show me is it good or bad.

[kripton2035]

if there are many small capacitors in parallel, in a power supply for example, then you won't be able to detect if one has a bad esr
you will need to desoldier them all (except one)
but generally these capacitors aren't bad, if one fails with bad esr, the other have a low ohm esr, and so the global esr of the group of
capacitors is ok. the problem is elsewhere but on capacitor array.
if you want to be sure, then you have anyway to change them all. (bad brand capacitor for example)

[crystal]

if there are many small capacitors in parallel, in a power supply for example, then you won't be able to detect if one has a bad esr
you will need to desoldier them all (except one)
but generally these capacitors aren't bad, if one fails with bad esr, the other have a low ohm esr, and so the global esr of the group of
capacitors is ok. the problem is elsewhere but on capacitor array.
if you want to be sure, then you have anyway to change them all. (bad brand capacitor for example)

Yes I am aware when they are in parallel in that situation cap must be removed from the board and that is no problem also.

Standalone ESR meters test on 100Khz, when I use 100Khz on de5000  and switch to Cs (where it is only possible to read ESR) it shows some way off values when in circuit testing. I wonder why doesn't it read like the normal ESR meter?

[kripton2035]

switch ro Rs instead of Cs and you will get the esr at the choosen frequency
if there are too many capacity the meter cannot measure them
or also you can switch to 120hz or 1khz eventually it will measure the capacity