Digital oscilloscope as a film prop

[Sid Nails]

Hi all
I hire out all sorts of electronic film props to the film/movie industry. One fairly frequent requirement is to dress an electronics laboratory film set which I have plenty of experience of having spent most of my working life in such places. Film makers always like "one of those boxes with a green wavy line" as they're very visual. I have various elderly analogue scopes but they're becoming difficult to keep going and of course a monochrome screen no longer looks as hi-tech as the film makers wish. So the time has come to buy at least one modern looking digital scope. Performance, bandwidth, fancy features like FFT etc are not relevant at all as it just needs to look modern with plenty of techie looking front panel detail. As long as it can display waveforms from a connected func gen, noise gen, talky radio station signal or lissajous figures etc then that's normally good enough. I've been looking at the Hantek DSO5072P because it's about the cheapest and appears to have a nice large screen. One absolutely vital requirement though that I've been unable to find out from the blurb, is that it must be possible to switch the device on at the wall and it'll power on with no user interaction so a nice old fashioned mechanically latching power switch is needed, not a soft touch switch that must be pressed each time power has been lost. Our equipment is normally unattended and people on film sets just can't be trusted to find the power switch in a sea of other buttons.

Another desirable feature would be some form of panel lock to disable the controls. Lurking hidden on many film sets are phantom knob twiddlers who think they know what they're doing but in an instant manage to entirely lose the trace that I've carefully set up. I then receive a frantic phone call from someone completely technically illiterate who I then have to patiently talk through restoring the trace before filming can begin. This is stress I could do without in my life. I'm assuming most of these scopes can be set to automatically restore previously saved settings?

So never having used a Hantek myself, can someone who has such experience confirm that this will fit the bill or suggest any other budget scope that would?

Thanks very much for reading.

[Fungus]

I'm fairly sure it has a mechanical switch. I'm sure you can find plenty of youtube review videos and see.

There's no defense against the knob twiddlers. DSOs will power on with the previous settings but there's no way to stop people twiddling.

I don't know about the Hantek but most DSOs allow you to load/save the current settings on a USB stick or in internal memory. This is a quick way to restore them (if you can get somebody to press the right buttons and select the file). Read the Hantek manual and see. 

[nfmax]

Maybe you could use a DSO with a network interface (or USB, but that might not reach far enough) so that you could set it up it remotely? Most DSOs lock out the front panel controls if they are being remote controlled.

[rsjsouza]

One absolutely vital requirement though that I've been unable to find out from the blurb, is that it must be possible to switch the device on at the wall and it'll power on with no user interaction so a nice old fashioned mechanically latching power switch is needed, not a soft touch switch that must be pressed each time power has been lost.

I can't find a mechanical switch on the Hantek, and both their website and one review on Youtube show it is a soft button.

I personally know that hard clunking buttons on color oscilloscopes can be found in the TDS3000 series of Tek scopes (I use one at work), but at least in this model the screen is too dim and they are expensive. You can try their TBS1000B series, which has a larger screen and has the clunking switch at the top. They can be had for around US$500.00.

The Rigol DS1052E can also be had on the dime (around US$300.00) and features a clunking switch. Its screen is smaller, though.

[DimitriP]

You are looking at this all wrong.   Using new technology costs more.
 Of course you need to be on the set to make sure the equipment behaves correctly. "Electronic prop wrangler".  They get  all the right squiggly waveforms, you get your name in the credits and more money. 

[Wuerstchenhund]

I hire out all sorts of electronic film props to the film/movie industry. One fairly frequent requirement is to dress an electronics laboratory film set which I have plenty of experience of having spent most of my working life in such places. Film makers always like "one of those boxes with a green wavy line" as they're very visual.

Pretty much all cheap scopes look exactly that - cheap.

Of course It depends on your customers but if that's not just for some low-budget indy films then I'd consider working with a big manufacturer like LeCroy or Keysight who'd probably love to get its equipment (and brand name!) on screen and very likely would provide you with propups for free. Not just scopes but probes and some demo PCBs which generate some nice looking signals.

And really, something like that:








looks a lot better than that:









Doesn't it? 

[MK14]

[Of course It depends on your customers but if that's not just for some low-budget indy films then I'd consider working with a big manufacturer like LeCroy or Keysight who'd probably love to get its equipment (and brand name!) on screen and very likely would provide you with propups for free. Not just scopes but probes and some demo PCBs which generate some nice looking signals.

EDIT:
In principle it is a good idea, and in some cases, could be done. But .............

My guess would be that, it would be a BAD idea. Because my understanding is that on-screen branding, has complicated licensing requirements, and people making films and TV programs, don't want to get into that sort of mess/situation.
E.g. Some TV channels/countries ban on screen product brand placements. The UK certainly did, and still does in many cases. If there are such programs, they need to make it clear at the beginning of the program by showing in the UK, a (P) or similar symbol, for PRODUCT placement.

There are also many other contractual and licensing requirements, across all the different countries involved.

tl;dr
Best to avoid showing on-screen filmed BRANDED items, on purpose. It causes many problems. UNLESS that is how your TV/films are being funded.

But I am NOT an expert on this, and the OP probably knows best.

[Fungus]

But I am NOT an expert on this, and the OP probably knows best.

I find it hard to believe that (eg) Apple pays for every single Apple laptop that appears on TV.

[MK14]

But I am NOT an expert on this, and the OP probably knows best.

I find it hard to believe that (eg) Apple pays for every single Apple laptop that appears on TV.

EDIT:
I think the following link explains the situation as regards Apple, which seems to be they DON'T pay for the item to be shown/placed, but DO supply it for free.

http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/technology/articles/Has-Apple-Fallen-Out-of-Favor/2/8/2013/id/47976

It is a very complicated subject area, and I only have a partial novice, understanding about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement

What I don't really understand about it is. For a program to formally grab an item (e.g. An Apple computer), and spend a minute within a film or TV program, talking about how good it is, is considered product placement.

Yet the same Apple computer, sitting peacefully in the corner of a film, is not necessarily product placement (but it might be).

Some Films/TV programs, seem to cover/hide the brand names of things on purpose, other don't. So I find the whole situation rather confusing.

tl;dr
I'll leave it to people who properly understand what product placement is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12593061

A ban on product placement has been lifted, allowing advertisers to pay for their goods to be seen on British TV.
Paid-for references to products and services are now permitted for the first time in shows produced in the UK, including soaps and one-off dramas.
The first product, a Nescafe coffee machine, has appeared on This Morning.

[Fungus]

Some Films/TV programs, seem to cover/hide the brand names of things on purpose

I always imagined that worked like this:
a) Agent goes to (eg.) Apple asking for money for product placement in a movie.
b) Apple says "no".
c) Producer says "fine" and tapes over the logos just to annoy Apple, hoping they might pay next time around.

ie. It's not a legal issue, it's just people making money.

[joseph nicholas]

Knowing that certain objects are constantly used as plot pivots or focus points exacerbates this.  For example, cameras appear more often and the company logos are prominently displayed during close ups.  The size of these company names to total object is disproportional.  Something like a computer relies on you knowing the Apple logo represents that company.  My guess would be that a relatively small company like Nikon would use this to their advantage to allow there products to be shown free.

[Wuerstchenhund]

EDIT:
In principle it is a good idea, and in some cases, could be done. But .............

My guess would be that, it would be a BAD idea. Because my understanding is that on-screen branding, has complicated licensing requirements, and people making films and TV programs, don't want to get into that sort of mess/situation.

What 'mess'? There are all kinds of products in films and movies from the whole Apple product range to James Bond presenting the latest Sony cell phone.

In fact, product placement is abundant. Because there isn't a 'mess'.

E.g. Some TV channels/countries ban on screen product brand placements. The UK certainly did, and still does in many cases. If there are such programs, they need to make it clear at the beginning of the program by showing in the UK, a (P) or similar symbol, for PRODUCT placement.

Like in many things, that is a UK speciality, and as you said the original prohibition is gone. Wikipedia says:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement#Legal_considerations

"A placement must be "editorially justified" and not place "undue prominence" on the product." Which shouldn't be a problem for a scope used as a movie prop in a scene depicting an EE lab.

It's not like the scope would appear on a faimily's dining table with the camera spending 3 minutes on a close-up of the brand name tag

There are also many other contractual and licensing requirements, across all the different countries involved.

No, there aren't. Many people just assume that this is the case but in most cases (especially when it comes to physical items) there's absolutely nothing to "license". The only issue that could arise is with the brand name (trademarks) and that is hardly a problem for depicting real brands in fictious works of arts. Even less so when the actual trademark owner is eager to get his stuff on the screen.

It's a bit more complex with non-physical stuff (i.e. songs, which actually involves licensing) or stuff which involves multiple right-holders, but that isn't relevant for a scope as movie prop.

[MK14]

Some Films/TV programs, seem to cover/hide the brand names of things on purpose

I always imagined that worked like this:
a) Agent goes to (eg.) Apple asking for money for product placement in a movie.
b) Apple says "no".
c) Producer says "fine" and tapes over the logos just to annoy Apple, hoping they might pay next time around.

ie. It's not a legal issue, it's just people making money.

I think it's for BOTH reasons. Because some countries might still be very fussy as regards product placements. The UK certainly use to be, and probably still is to an extent (I'm NOT very familiar with the rules, so not fully sure).

Back on topic
Making an oscilloscope NOT react to the switches and knobs on it is not that easy. If you opened it and disconnected the keyboard connector(s), it might detect that as a fault, and refuse to boot up and pass the self checks (I'm not sure if they try and detect that or not).

If you are into electronics, you could defeat a soft power on button with a relay and/or transistor with a NE555 timer circuit or something, connected to the soft power switch. So that your electronics fix, makes it get a power on press, 5 or 10 seconds, after power is applied. But booting into the right initial screen(s), is not so easy either.

[Fungus]

No, not really. Which is why there are all kinds of products in films and movies from the whole Apple product range to James Bond presenting the latest Sony cell phone.

The James Bond franchise can (and does!) ask for money for just about everything that appears in the movie. That's the advantage of being famous.

Sometimes they even go against the spirit of James Bond, eg. when BMW had the "car" franchise and James drove around in boring BMWs for a few movies.

If you're a small fish? Not so much. I'd tape over logos, too.

[borjam]

If you are into electronics, you could defeat a soft power on button with a relay and/or transistor with a NE555 timer circuit or something, connected to the soft power switch. So that your electronics fix, makes it get a power on press, 5 or 10 seconds, after power is applied. But booting into the right initial screen(s), is not so easy either.

Maybe it's better to build prop oscilloscopes. Buy some broken/for parts oscilloscopes from eBay, and replace the screen. Install a screen connected to a Raspberry Pi or something, and just have them play a video of an oscilloscope screen or something like that.

It would make it reproducible

[MK14]

EDIT:
In principle it is a good idea, and in some cases, could be done. But .............

My guess would be that, it would be a BAD idea. Because my understanding is that on-screen branding, has complicated licensing requirements, and people making films and TV programs, don't want to get into that sort of mess/situation.

No, not really. Which is why there are all kinds of products in films and movies from the whole Apple product range to James Bond presenting the latest Sony cell phone.

In fact, PB is pretty much abundant.

E.g. Some TV channels/countries ban on screen product brand placements. The UK certainly did, and still does in many cases. If there are such programs, they need to make it clear at the beginning of the program by showing in the UK, a (P) or similar symbol, for PRODUCT placement.

Like with many things, that is a UK 'speciality', and as you already said the original prohibition is gone. Wikipedia says:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement#Legal_considerations

"A placement must be "editorially justified" and not place "undue prominence" on the product." Which shouldn't be a problem for a scope as movie prop.

There are also many other contractual and licensing requirements, across all the different countries involved.

No, there aren't. Many people just assume that this is the case but in most cases (especially when it comes to physical items) there's nothing to "license". The only issue that could arise is with the brand name (trademarks) and that is hardly a problem for depicting real brands in fictious works of arts. Even less so when the actual trademark owner is eager to get his stuff on the screen.

I am both a novice with product placement understand and living in a country (UK), with a probably rare TV channel (still very popular), in the UK, called the BBC. They raise money by yearly TV licence fees (£145.50 / year), and absolutely BAN any kind of advertising on the channel. Absolutely no adverts, at all, ever (ignoring adverts for other BBC programs and charities, news items).
They have very strict rules, but I completely agree, that it might be relatively unique to us, who live in the UK.

If we want to discuss this any further, we should probably start a new thread, as it is getting unfair to the OP.

[MK14]

If you are into electronics, you could defeat a soft power on button with a relay and/or transistor with a NE555 timer circuit or something, connected to the soft power switch. So that your electronics fix, makes it get a power on press, 5 or 10 seconds, after power is applied. But booting into the right initial screen(s), is not so easy either.

Maybe it's better to build prop oscilloscopes. Buy some broken/for parts oscilloscopes from eBay, and replace the screen. Install a screen connected to a Raspberry Pi or something, and just have them play a video of an oscilloscope screen or something like that.

It would make it reproducible

That is a good idea. It could then go through various electronics waveform screen shots.

An alternative, would be to connect a few of the buttons to an MCU, and program a button sequence (such as (hypothetically), wait 7 seconds after initial power up, then "press" soft power on button, wait 5 seconds, then "press" Recall, user settings #1. Then the scope will display something nice, in my hypothetical example).
But I don't think the OP has the resources to pay for this to be done by someone, and they may not know how to do this themselves and/or not want to spend the time to do it.

[Fungus]

I am both a novice with product placement understand and living in a country (UK), with a probably rare TV channel (still very popular), in the UK, called the BBC.

You misspelled "worlds greatest".

They raise money by yearly TV licence fees (£145.50 / year), and absolutely BAN any kind of advertising on the channel. Absolutely no adverts, at all, ever (ignoring adverts for other BBC programs and charities, news items).
They have very strict rules, but I completely agree, that it might be relatively unique to us, who live in the UK.

OTOH they don't seem to put tape over logos or blur them out when products naturally appear on screen like (eg.) The Americans do.

[CJay]

I've supplied props for TV before now (and had a credit too.)

TV stations at least are usually fairly careful about showing brands (especially in the case of one Zenith PC case I supplied, they set it on fire)

Definitely consider approaching the PR/Marketing departments of a few manufacturers, it'll cost little to do and might net a good haul of tech.

But, I digress, if I were supplying props I'd be considering 'scope front panels with a small TFT monitor fitted that displays whatever computer generated technical image the producer liked best.

As someone else mentioned if real test gear is used then it's worth considering something with GPIB as I believe a lot of the Agilent 9and I would imagine many more) products will lock out front panel controls when under remote control. It should be possible to use something like the Arduino GPIB to lock up the controls

[MK14]

I am both a novice with product placement understand and living in a country (UK), with a probably rare TV channel (still very popular), in the UK, called the BBC.

You misspelled "worlds greatest".

They raise money by yearly TV licence fees (£145.50 / year), and absolutely BAN any kind of advertising on the channel. Absolutely no adverts, at all, ever (ignoring adverts for other BBC programs and charities, news items).
They have very strict rules, but I completely agree, that it might be relatively unique to us, who live in the UK.

OTOH they don't seem to put tape over logos or blur them out when products naturally appear on screen like (eg.) The Americans do.

I think the top gear presenters, on one of the top gear programs, explained how fussy the rules on showing brands were with the BBC (if I remember correctly). I think they then made a lot of fun of the rules, in a rather funny way.

I guess the OP needs to tell us, about branding and product placement, and if that is a good idea or not.

[Psi]

Lurking hidden on many film sets are phantom knob twiddlers who think they know what they're doing but in an instant manage to entirely lose the trace that I've carefully set up.

Finally, a valid use for the scopes 'auto' button.   

[Wuerstchenhund]

No, not really. Which is why there are all kinds of products in films and movies from the whole Apple product range to James Bond presenting the latest Sony cell phone.

The James Bond franchise can (and does!) ask for money for just about everything that appears in the movie.

Yes, because they can get away with it (i.e. companies are willing to pay for their stuff being shown in a JB movie). If your movie is a big budget production then yes you can charge manufacturers for the privilege, but if this was what the OP was doing then he'd hardly be here and asking for a scruffy Hantek scope.

Also, the production company wanting to be paid to place a manufacturer's products has nothing to do with the complexity (or not) of a manufacturer providing products for free.

[Brumby]

Can we move discussion of "Product Placement" somewhere else, please.


The important thing about the OP's objective here is - aside from the obvious visual appeal in the movie - is that the whole setup is a 'turnkey' solution.

Turn on one switch - and all the tech powers up and enters the required functional configuration without any further effort.  The Hantek DSO5072P appears to do this: https://youtu.be/2-9rQvbCVis?t=572

(I had this brief for the design of a sound reinforcement system that was used regularly by non technical people.  The caretaker was shown how to plug in the microphones and then there was one power switch.  This powered up everything - the mixer, EQ, compressor/limiter and power amps.  I did have one advantage, though .... all the equipment was under lock and key, so nobody could fiddle with any knobs.)

[MK14]

Another idea, is have any scopes got a demo button mode, or board which locks it into a demo mode ?

I found this one, but know nothing about it. It is for Rigol scopes, I think.

http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/UserGuide/DS6000DemoBoard_UserGuide_EN.pdf

[Brumby]

As for the front panel looking a little underwhelming - I'm sure you could find an artistic talent somewhere that could fill some of the plain space with more interesting graphics.

Maybe stick on some EL strips or throw in a few flashing LEDs.

We could always start a thread called "Pimp My Scope"